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tomder55 · Aug 11, 2018, 07:25 AM

Tom this is not a question of slavery, working for rations may be considered slavery in your country, but such methods of compensation exist in the agricultural industry even today.

It becomes slavery when it involved kidnapping and involuntary servitude . Both conditions existed as institutional policy and law until the 1970s in Australia .

wow by your argument I could say American slaves were just workers working for rations. I mean Massa provided them with food ,clothing and shelter …..right ?

talaniman · Aug 11, 2018, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

It becomes slavery when it involved kidnapping and involuntary servitude . Both conditions existed as institutional policy and law until the 1970s in Australia .

wow by your argument I could say American slaves were just workers working for rations. I mean Massa provided them with food ,clothing and shelter …..right ?

And whupped, sold, and raped them for their own good and because they could. After all they were property and inferior, so even after slavery they could be denied the basics of human dignity and subjected to ECONOMIC and SOCIAL slavery which even in the US AND Australia and to be fair, many other places, still exists.

Agree with you Tom, but the forms of slavery have expanded and morphed to a more palatable form of terrorism on both sides of the equation.

tomder55 · Aug 11, 2018, 11:25 AM

ECONOMIC and SOCIAL slavery

talaniman · Aug 11, 2018, 01:09 PM

You been isolated in NY for too long Tom. You should get out more, no Disneyland doesn't count.

paraclete · Aug 11, 2018, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

And whupped, sold, and raped them for their own good and because they could. After all they were property and inferior, so even after slavery they could be denied the basics of human dignity and subjected to ECONOMIC and SOCIAL slavery which even in the US AND Australia and to be fair, many other places, still exists.

Agree with you Tom, but the forms of slavery have expanded and morphed to a more palatable form of terrorism on both sides of the equation.

I keep telling you to stop projecting, we live in two very different places. By the time my nation was been established slavery was on the nose in the enlightened world. I have no doubt attitudes still existed among the landed gentry but it was no longer socially acceptable. Exploitation of labour has always been a problem and continues to this day all over the world and it was to combat this that trade unions formed and the early expressions of this are found in my nation

talaniman · Aug 12, 2018, 07:17 AM

I'm not projecting anything, just you are trying to dodge your own hateful bigotry, or maybe you see it as fair and accurate. It's always been the way of humans to put others down to justify mistreatment. The dufus does it as well as anyone, as many agree with his mistreatment of women and children along our southern border, and his attack on foreigners with tans, while he just made citizens of his wife's parents while he wants to stop other people from doing just that.

You're not alone by any means Clete as my own country fails miserably on race relations as well. Maybe you don't have anything to do with the past colonials, but you sure feed into it and enjoy the privilege it brings. That's not projecting, just a statement of fact as I see it.

tomder55 · Aug 12, 2018, 09:09 AM

You forgot Wage slavery which is having half of what you earn confiscated and given to people who don’t work.

talaniman · Aug 12, 2018, 09:41 AM

Quite a statement, prove it is factual. I don't think it is, nor does it fit logically that the non workers get half your paycheck, and still be poor. Of course I have links for you to peruse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

https://www.wisebread.com/how-to-not-be-a-wage-slave

Now you can show me where half your wages goes to none workers.

paraclete · Aug 15, 2018, 04:32 PM

Now you can show me where half your wages goes to none workers.

Half might be an exaggeration as are many things here, however, let us substitute a large percentage. Who do you think pays the large number of drones employed by government of various persuasions? Then we have those on welfare or benefits, who do you think pays for them? It is certainly slavery that any person should be expected to work for minimum wage and that they should be asked to contribute in any form to the tax collection.

You ask for facts

please digest these facts

https://taxfoundation.org/distributi...-united-states

Now ask your self who the low income families are in these numbers

talaniman · Aug 15, 2018, 05:06 PM

Nice link, the data has been updated to 2018 HERE

https://taxfoundation.org/

paraclete · Aug 16, 2018, 06:53 AM

I don't need an update the data is clear

talaniman · Aug 16, 2018, 07:13 AM

Yes the data has been clear for some time but the real story is how easy it is to manipulate the economy of groups in regions/locations for profits and gains. I won't assume you reference wage slavery, I will let you explain your interpretation of the data.

paraclete · Aug 16, 2018, 03:35 PM

I though I already had. It clearly shows the those on the bottom paying tax and yes they might get more back than they contribute according to the stats but surely that is a bureaucratic nightmare for both

talaniman · Aug 17, 2018, 08:28 AM

It's surely a social nightmare that the not so well off don't deserve any kind of consideration of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and are and have always been devalued, and dehumanized by many people in an attempt to elevate their own value and stature. Just because a CEO is rich famous and powerful, is he really any better of a human being than a janitor?

Unfortunately to many he is, and that's kind of a shame.

paraclete · Aug 17, 2018, 06:45 PM

It is the system Tal, the capitalist way. Many have understood that this is not the way but they are not willing to put aside what they have gained. While there are some who benefit at the expense of many other less fortunate it will not change. It took a revolution to sweep away this thinking in some places but even that didn't stop it rising again. It was said long ago what does it profit a man ……. and yet men still seek profit

talaniman · Aug 18, 2018, 08:41 AM

Can't blame anybody for wanting mo money, its additive.

paraclete · Aug 18, 2018, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Can't blame anybody for wanting mo money, its additive.

Basic human need, but when some have enough they shouldn't be wanting more. We should tax greed. Set a ceiling on income and take the rest. It would be a better system. So set the threshold at $1 million, no tax below, take the rest above. No deductions, no concessions, just a simple system. Do away with state taxes so everyone is on the same level.

talaniman · Aug 19, 2018, 05:55 AM

Money is power, and the ability to influence others to follow OR manipulate the course of events and outcomes favorably for whatever cause you choose. The fewer hands that have that power, the more outcomes and events are skewed in that direction. A classic case of the needs of the few outweighing the needs of the many. Poverty, war, hunger and ignorance are the outcomes of that model. I agree Clete, a drastic change in that system is needed. The present one has been corrupted.