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paraclete · Dec 2, 2009, 07:08 PM

It seems the idea that man can affect the outcome in dealing with climate change is rapidly coming apart, even the guy who started the idea of global warming says nothing will be achieved at Copenhagen because the approach is fundamentally flawed
Global warming 'godfather' goes cold on Copenhagen|James Hansen|
So campers, what are we to do? burst our little boilers worrying about something we cannot control? Or get back to business as usual and wait for the next ice age to sort it all out?

ROLCAM · Dec 2, 2009, 08:03 PM

Ask the Liberal Party, they do not seem to have a clue.
The Shadow Minister of this is going to be Mr Barnaby Jones.(the outspoken National).

Skell · Dec 2, 2009, 09:49 PM

Outspoken would be an understatement... ;)

paraclete · Dec 2, 2009, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by ROLCAM

Ask the Liberal Party, they do not seem to have a clue.
The Shadow Minister of this is going to be Mr Barnaby Jones.(the outspoken National).

Well, Roland, what did you expect? Surely you didn't think he would appoint someone who agreed with climate change? I actually think all of this is very healthy, we will get much more debate and perhaps get away from a single solution to the difficulty of responding to a problem when you can't define the dimensions with any certainty..

I actually think that Abbott has a clue that climate change is not man made but we are a long way from accepting that we cannot influence the outcome significantly. In the present climate, it is political suicide to hold these views, but it is good to see a man of strong convictions step up. It took me a while to read the research on both sides of the question and maybe it was the same for Abbott.

speechlesstx · Dec 3, 2009, 05:58 AM

Hansen is part of the whole fraud, how noble of him to want to "reassess the situation."

tomder55 · Dec 3, 2009, 06:45 AM

Hansen and others should come under criminal prosecution. He wants to reaccess because he got caught in the lie. He was the main moving force in the US ,and because of his position ,his word carried considerable weight. The US has already spent a fortune based on policies he promoted in this fraud.

paraclete · Dec 3, 2009, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Hansen and others should come under criminal prosecution. He wants to reaccess because he got caught in the lie. He was the main moving force in the US ,and because of his position ,his word carried considerable weight. The US has already spent a fortune based on policies he promoted in this fraud.

This is the difficulty of a scientist speaking out before all the research is in, and too many of them do it to further their career. "I think" becomes "I know". Theory becomes fact. It is time we all took a step back and asked; exactly what do we know for sure?

tomder55 · Dec 3, 2009, 03:29 PM

If he was invested in fraud and coverup to advance the position he took ,he should be criminally liable because he was in an administrative decision making position .

speechlesstx · Dec 3, 2009, 03:57 PM

It's even deeper than that, tom. From an Obama memorandum of March 9th:

SUBJECT: Scientific Integrity

Science and the scientific process must inform and guide decisions of my Administration on a wide range of issues, including improvement of public health, protection of the environment, increased efficiency in the use of energy and other resources, mitigation of the threat of climate change, and protection of national security.

The public must be able to trust the science and scientific process informing public policy decisions. Political officials should not suppress or alter scientific or technological findings and conclusions. If scientific and technological information is developed and used by the Federal Government, it should ordinarily be made available to the public. To the extent permitted by law, there should be transparency in the preparation, identification, and use of scientific and technological information in policymaking. The selection of scientists and technology professionals for positions in the executive branch should be based on their scientific and technological knowledge, credentials, experience, and integrity.

This president owes the American public an explanation and he needs to as Shikha Dalmia said, "Ask eco-warriors at the Copenhagen Climate Change Summit next week to declare an immediate cease-fire in their war against global warming pending a complete review of the science."

His feet need to be held to the fire as does every Democrat in Congress until they honor their much ballyhooed pledges of transparency and ethics and address this with the seriousness it demands. Just don't hold your breath until they do.

paraclete · Dec 4, 2009, 12:56 AM

Apparently Obama said "The public must be able to trust the science and scientific process informing public policy decisions" I wonder what he might think about a scientist being gagged.
Scientist quits CSIRO amid censorship claims
In Australia a climate scientist working for a peak research body has been gagged over his opinions of cap and trade systems. The timing is interesting as the gag was in place when the Australian government was voting on a cap and trade system. Dr. Splash has made a big splash, becoming a whistle blower to tell us all that the government is not fair dinkum about the debate. It appears that the science and whatever the government deems policy is settled here to. Just as well we have some politicians who have seen through the rhetoric

speechlesstx · Dec 4, 2009, 05:28 AM

Clete, the head of CSIRO is quoted as saying ''CSIRO staff are actively encouraged to debate publicly the latest science and its implications and to analyse policy options."

Just words?

paraclete · Dec 4, 2009, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Clete, the head of CSIRO is quoted as saying ''CSIRO staff are actively encouraged to debate publicly the latest science and its implications and to analyse policy options."

Just words?

In this case, apparently? We have heard before that they are not as open as they would like us to believe