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    canadagirl54321's Avatar
    canadagirl54321 Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Mar 10, 2009, 08:55 PM
    theft under $5000, first offence, over 18
    Hi there.
    At the end of January, I was caught shoplifting at Sears, and was taken by Sears security into their office. I gave back what I had taken (socks and underwear), and co-operated with everyone. The security guard wrote down that I had co-operated and that it would look well in the judge's eyes.
    I have been charged with theft under $5000 x2, because of the two different items.
    This is my first offence. They have videos of me stealing, so when I spoke to legal aid, they said it would be best to plead guilty since they have proof.

    What is court like? Do I need a lawyer? I'm keeping my parents out of this (I'm 18, so under the privacy act, they don't need to know). I need to speak to legal aid again, but what is the most likely outcome for someone who is:
    1)over 18
    2)first offence
    3)co-operated

    Also, what are Alternative Measures?
    Thanks
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #2

    Mar 10, 2009, 09:04 PM

    Can I assume you are in Canada, since it is theft under 5000 ( their normal charge)

    I would also say that personally I would not give a statement, agree I did it ( confess) without talking to an attorney first. And I would never plead guilty without an attorney.

    But normally they will have a program where you pay both a fine and a civil penalty to the store, do probation and then the sentence is dismissed. So no real record. But you need to have this arranged before you plead guilty, ot after.
    canadagirl54321's Avatar
    canadagirl54321 Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #3

    Mar 10, 2009, 09:15 PM
    I kind of left this to the last minute, seeing as my court date is tomorrow.
    I did not give a statement, as the legal aid person told me not to. But will court provide an attourney for me when I go to court?
    If I don't have an attourney present, what is my best option?
    Yes, I'm in Canada.
    I will give legal aid another call in the morning. I know it was very stupid for me to leave this until the last minute, but I need all the advice I can get before tomorrow.
    What are my best options for going to court alone?
    emery's Avatar
    emery Posts: 92, Reputation: 2
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    #4

    Mar 11, 2009, 06:14 AM

    You will most likely get alternative measures which is also called diversion since this is the first offense. You do not need a lawyer unless you are not offered this program and then you would have time to obtain one before your next court date. Please let us know your outcome.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #5

    Mar 11, 2009, 06:42 AM

    Here is something I wrote:

    "“Ontario diversion program guidelines vary from region to region, courthouse to Courthouse. Eligibility for such a program is ALWAYS determined by the Crown Attorney's office. There are no exceptions. You are not required to have legal counsel in order to apply.

    If the offense - theft - is not major (property was recovered, not a large amount, not a repeat offender) the Crown Attorney MAY approve eligibility into the diversion program prior to the Curt appearance. If there are prior dealings with the Police - and charges do not have to be placed, any prior dealings of a negative nature - the person will most likely not be eligible for the diversion program.

    As part of the diversion program the eligible person will have to agree to complete certain tasks or obligations - perhaps watch a video, make a donation or volunteer time to a not-for-profit, write a paper on the crime.

    When the tasks/obligations have been competed to the satisfaction of the Crown's Attorney he/she will recommend to the Judge that the criminal charge (usually, theft) be withdrawn.

    Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

    If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision.”
    canadagirl54321's Avatar
    canadagirl54321 Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #6

    Mar 11, 2009, 11:07 AM
    Ok, so I went to court today, a half hour early (unnecessary, as I had to wait until 9:30am anyway to speak to the duty councillor). He put my case on hold until everyone else was done, seeing as I didn't have a lawyer.
    After about 1 1/2 hours waiting, the duty councillor took me in his office again, with my file this time, and we went over what happened, and he wrote down things in my favour to tell the judge, such as I was embarrassed of what happened, I was low on cash at the time, it was a first offence, impulse, it was the first time I did something like this, and that it won't happen again.
    I was charged with theft under $5000, and possession of stolen items (which didn't make sense to the judge or the duty councillor, so that charge was dropped).
    It only took about 20minutes waiting time once I was in the court room. A few people went ahead of me, charged with the same thing as me.
    When I went before the judge, the duty councillor read the things he wrote about me, another lady read out the summary of what happened according to what the security guard who apprehended me had written (that I was co-operative, I returned everything I had taken... ).
    Apparently, in Newfoundland (the province I live in), there is no such thing as Alternative Measures. I was released with Absolute Discharge, which means my act stays on record for a year, and am on probation for a year. I have NO fine to pay, and NO community service. After a year I can contact the police station and ask them to destroy my records (therefore no criminal record, but the act will still be there if I need an indepth police report in the future [I'm pretty sure]).
    My judge was pretty funny too. He smiled at me after he discharged me and said "I hope you never come back here", and I laughed and said "I definitely wont".
    So I didn't need a lawyer, and I have nothing to pay out.
    Everything turned out better than I expected, but believe me, I have definitely learned my lesson.

    And ps: the security cameras is Sears are friggin amazing. They can zoom in and catch every detail of what you do. At my work we have ty security cameras, so when I was sitting in the security office at Sears watching their cameras on their TV, I was blown away. Never doubt security cameras.
    emery's Avatar
    emery Posts: 92, Reputation: 2
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    #7

    Mar 11, 2009, 11:35 AM

    Thanks for letting everyone know, that is good news I am glad things went well for you. I think an absolute discharge would be removed automatically after one year from the records however you are probably right that a real indepth search would still uncover it. Thanks again for sharing and good luck.
    adelleda's Avatar
    adelleda Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Oct 25, 2011, 10:14 AM
    So are you given a lawyer when you show up or does the duty councillor just deffend you?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
    Uber Member
     
    #9

    Oct 25, 2011, 10:20 AM
    Read what I posted - it's covered there.

    It also changes slightly from Province to Province.

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