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    Oliver2011's Avatar
    Oliver2011 Posts: 2,606, Reputation: 746
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    #1

    Jun 13, 2016, 07:50 AM
    When does the violence end?
    Orlando, the City Beautiful, peaceful evening was shattered yesterday morning while we got smack in the gut by hate. If you live here you knew what was going on just minutes after it started. We spent the night and yesterday checking on loved ones and friends. 104 people went out to enjoy a nice weekend in Orlando, one was killed Friday night, 50 were killed yesterday, and 53 plus countless others are in some stage of healing, pain, or whatever. Another senseless act of violence by a deranged hateful jerk. I have no problems with people owning guns. I have a problem with the wrong people having access to guns. This is my hometown where I was raised not far from Pulse and where I chose to raise my kids. My high school is less than 5 minutes away from Pulse. The hospital that most were taken to was where I was born not 0.2 miles away from Pulse. Pulse used to be a Italian restaurant called Lorenzo's and wow did they have good pizza.

    I don't want every baseball game to have moment of silence with the word "ORLANDO" on the jumbotron. I don't want the Tony's to dedicate their show to Orlando. I want the hate to stop and I want people to be tolerant. But yesterday I still had a son celebrating his 13th birthday so with a very heavy heart we still had to celebrate. I was very proud he chose after dinner to go to the candlelight vigil downtown at our Lake Eola.

    I want the Federal Government to find these radical hate-filled people and keep them from having guns. We have to do better.

    I call on parents to teach their kids how to love and be more tolerant.

    The shooter's dad apologized yesterday. Not good enough, not from where I sit in my hometown. It's just a sad day in Orlando.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,286, Reputation: 5645
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    #2

    Jun 13, 2016, 08:37 AM
    How do you keep them from having guns? Responsible owners follow the proper channels. Terrorists, not so much.

    When I asked my gun, I have many, she didn't respond. Why? Because she is an inanimate object that has no power until I put her in my hands.

    We need to stop blaming the gun, and start blaming the human holding it. Bring back stringent mental health care, vet our immigrants better.

    Stop op blaming the gun, start blaming our government.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #3

    Jun 13, 2016, 08:42 AM
    And who needs an AR-15? It's not useful for hunting (there'll be nothing left of the animal) or for self defense; it's a people-killing machine.

    I wept again as I read this morning's newspapers and watched the current TV reports. My heart is breaking. Young school children, Christians gathering in church, theatergoers, people at work, high school and college students, a nightcub packed with gays -- what next? No one is safe.

    Omar Mateen followed all the rules for obtaining and registering his guns. He'd even been looked at more than once by the FBI. Yet he was a loose screw with a background of wife beating and instability. So who can we trust with guns? Whom do we allow to have guns?
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,286, Reputation: 5645
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    #4

    Jun 13, 2016, 08:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    And who needs an AR-15? It's not useful for hunting (there'll be nothing left of the animal) or for self defense; it's a people-killing machine.
    Have you ever been hunted by a grizzly bear while pregnant? I have, while living and camping in Alaska. My 22 year old daughter is alive today because I knew how to use a 7.65x39.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #5

    Jun 13, 2016, 09:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by J_9 View Post
    Have you ever been hunted by a grizzly bear while pregnant? I have, while living and camping in Alaska. My 22 year old daughter is alive today because I knew how to use a 7.65x39.
    I can appreciate that but how many gunowners need an AR-15 to protect their daughter from a grizzly. You were in a very unique situation.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #6

    Jun 13, 2016, 09:03 AM
    I have to agree with WonderGirl here. This was a person who was twice looked at by the FBI and had a history of mental illness. Yet he was able to legally obtain assault rifles without raising a flag somewhere! How did such a person pass a background check? I don't know the exact answer because I don't know what was required to obtain those guns. But whatever it was was not adequate. And that's the problem. Many states make it too easy to obtain any weapon, let alone a people killer like these weapons.

    Of course its not the gun's fault. But maybe if we make it harder for a person like this to get such weapons, he doesn't go on such a spree. Of course there is the possibility that he then tries to obtain the weapons illegally, or use a different methodology. We can't know the answer, but we have to make it more difficult to obtain such weapons.

    The NRA is partially to blame here. If the NRA would work towards reasonable and meaningful laws to try and prevent this type of tragedy while protecting the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns, it would help. But instead the NRA's reaction is to resist ANY attempt at regulation rather then working for regulation that everyone can live with.

    When will the violence end? Never, is my guess. It is part of the price we pay for a relatively free society. The only way the violence will completely end is in a closed totalitarian society. But we can and should be doing more.
    Oliver2011's Avatar
    Oliver2011 Posts: 2,606, Reputation: 746
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    #7

    Jun 13, 2016, 09:32 AM
    The more years I live, the more it seems we are headed for the days of Revelations. Nobody deserved this or what happened at the AME church in South Carolina, or the school in Sandy Hook. I just want my friends, family, and hometown to be safe. And that wasn't the case this weekend.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #8

    Jun 13, 2016, 10:14 AM
    Some people make me sick. Why don't the gun owners all turn in their guns and place a sigh on their lawn "Gun Free" Zone. See how that would work. Guns are not the problem, people are. How many AR-15's are there in the United States? I have no idea how many but I would be willing to bet that 99.9% of them are not out killing people. We already have gun control, background investigations and what ever the hell else that is required to buy a Gun. We need people control period. How many guns in Baltimore, New York City, Chicago, and every other big city carried by criminals are registered and legal, try none? Don't blame it on the NRA either, I don't know any criminal who belong to the NRA. You want to blame someone blame Trump NOT.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #9

    Jun 13, 2016, 10:21 AM
    Why does someone need to own an assault rifle?
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #10

    Jun 13, 2016, 10:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Why does someone need to own an assault rifle?
    Apparently you don't know much about hunting. Just because the government or the media has the freedom to assign whatever label to things it feels like, that does not make it so. All Rifles are not Assault Rifles, just those that the Media likes to throw around to get big headlines.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #11

    Jun 13, 2016, 10:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    Apparently you don't know much about hunting. Just because the government or the media has the freedom to assign whatever label to things it feel like, that does not make it so. All Rifles are not Assault Rifles, just those that the Media likes to throw around to get big headlines.
    Then I'll be specific. Why does someone need to own an AR-15 or an AK-47?
    DoulaLC's Avatar
    DoulaLC Posts: 10,488, Reputation: 1952
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    #12

    Jun 13, 2016, 10:49 AM
    Terrorist intent aside, which obviously needs to be dealt with in a more proactive manner, as J_9 said, the mental health situation in America is truly irresponsible. Bring back "institutions" in the sense where people can receive help who need it, have a home off the streets, be monitored as necessary, and the rest of society will have fewer incidents related to mental health concerns.

    Certainly more needs to be done with the known thugs/criminals running around with guns. Of course it would mean more young men (for the most part) in prisons and that would cause some to protest. In some situations, a location similar to a half-way house might be more advantageous. Remove them from their dismal environment. Give them something more to strive for.

    More needs to be done with guns being brought into the country illegally as well. Cut off the demand and the supply lines. Guns have always been in existence in America; in some locations the majority of the residents have guns without any issues. The variables are upbringing and opportunities.

    Some changes do make sense; there should be background checks/waiting periods at gun shows and such, but also have more uniform enforcement of the laws already present.

    You won't get real change without dealing with the root of the problem, whether due to mental health concerns, illegal guns, drugs, or terrorism, and the politicians/government don't want to go there, so they push for band-aids instead.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #13

    Jun 13, 2016, 10:53 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by DoulaLC View Post
    Terrorist intent aside, which obviously needs to be dealt with in a more proactive manner, as J_9 said, the mental health situation in America is truly irresponsible. Bring back "institutions" in the sense where people can receive help who need it, have a home off the streets, be monitored as necessary, and the rest of society will have fewer incidents related to mental health concerns.

    Certainly more needs to be done with the known thugs/criminals running around with guns. Of course it would mean more young men (for the most part) in prisons and that would cause some to protest. In some situations, a location similar to a half-way house might be more advantageous. Remove them from their dismal environment. Give them something more to strive for.

    More needs to be done with guns being brought into the country illegally as well. Cut off the demand and the supply lines. Guns have always been in existence in America; in some locations the majority of the residents have guns without any issues. The variables are upbringing and opportunities.

    Some changes do make sense; there should be background checks/waiting periods at gun shows and such, but also have more uniform enforcement of the laws already present.

    You won't get real change without dealing with the root of the problem, whether due to mental health concerns, illegal guns, drugs, or terrorism, and the politicians/government don't want to go there, so they push for band-aids instead.
    I give you an A+
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #14

    Jun 13, 2016, 10:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Then I'll be specific. Why does someone need to own an AR-15 or an AK-47?
    Come on. When I roll over in bed all alone and I feel the cold steel barrell against my leg, I feel safe. Yeah, ridiculous I know.

    PS My weapon of choice is the "Slingshot" with steel ball bearings.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #15

    Jun 13, 2016, 11:06 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    Come on. When I roll over in bed all alone and I feel the cold steel barrell against my leg, I feel safe. Yeah, ridiculous I know.
    The 2nd Amendment was written with muskets in mind. They could get off maybe four inaccurate shots per minute. Trade you a musket to sleep with instead of your "cold steel barrell."
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #16

    Jun 13, 2016, 11:13 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The 2nd Amendment was written with muskets in mind. They could get off maybe four inaccurate shots per minute. Trade you a musket to sleep with instead of your "cold steel barrell."
    I DON'T own an AR-15 nor do I desire one but I still want the right to own one, if I change my mind. How about my slingshot for your musket?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #17

    Jun 13, 2016, 11:17 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    I DON'T own an AR-15 nor do I desire one but I still want the right to own one if I change my mind. How about my slingshot for your musket?
    Naw. I need my musket for when the govnment tries to take our guns away.

    Doula makes good points, but all the rights' groups we have now wouldn't let it happen.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #18

    Jun 13, 2016, 11:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Naw. I need my musket for when the govnment tries to take our guns away.
    Okay, How about your Fife and Drum?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #19

    Jun 13, 2016, 11:23 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    Okay, How about your Fife and Drum?
    Maybe.

    Why couldn't the FBI restrict Omar from buying guns?
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
    Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
     
    #20

    Jun 13, 2016, 11:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    We already have gun control, background investigations and what ever the hell else that is required to buy a Gun.
    Really? Then explain to me how a person with a history of mental instability, a history of terrorist leanings that caused him to twice be checked by the FBI, how such a person was easily able to obtain a weapon such as the one used?

    Yes, I WILL put some of the blame on the NRA because they fight ANY and EVERY type of gun control, no matter how reasonable. Instead of working towards regulation that everyone can live with. If the Orlando shooter had not obtained his weapon legally, then no I wouldn't blame the NRA. But the fact of the matter is, had he used a simple hunting rifle instead of a semi-automatic killing machine, then I doubt if the death toll would have been anywhere near as high.

    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    I DON'T own an AR-15 nor do I desire one but I still want the right to own one, if I change my mind.
    I notice you keep dodging Wondergirl's question. So when you "feel the cold steel barrell against my leg, I feel safe". But why does that barrel need to be a part of a weapon like the AR-15. I'm sorry, but you are displaying the same knee jerk reaction I spoke of! You want to own guns for the sport of hunting or even for protection then fine. I'm guessing that you can show that is your only reasons for gun ownership and you should be allowed. But can you tell me with complete honesty, that you think the Florida shooter should have been allowed to purchase such a weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    Apparently you don't know much about hunting.
    Apparently YOU don't know much about hunting. I've known a few hunters and none would go into the woods with an AR-15. They hunt for the sport and there is no sport in using a semi-automatic to shoot game.

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