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    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #1

    Feb 3, 2015, 04:54 PM
    Is Gun Control Responsible for Crime?
    Driving home, I had a thought. Is Gun Control responsible for much of the crime in this country? Aren't the politicians responsible? They pass laws to disarm the victims. How good are the laws, that are supposed, to disarm the criminals working for us? Not very well. How many criminals would be dead if the victims were armed, good question I think. How many crimes would be stopped? The Police can't be everywhere.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,135, Reputation: 10852
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    #2

    Feb 3, 2015, 05:11 PM
    Criminals are responsible for crime, plain and simple, and the problem is catching and punishing them, since the cops can only react after they have committed a crime. I know of no laws to disarm ordinary citizens, just insure a nut from the loony bin doesn't get one, or a convicted felon.

    What's wrong with that? Now we can argue if you should have an uzi to defend yourself, or a high capacity clip,or a cannon, or bazooka.

    I guess you are against a simple background check too.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #3

    Feb 3, 2015, 05:28 PM
    This question is argued endlessly. I can't believe you don't run into it every day - my friends on Facebook, people in towns like Sandy Hook, politicians, the NRA... on and on.

    I happen to agree that gun control hasn't worked, because criminals and anyone who really wants a gun gets them easily anyway. A few mentally ill might be stopped, or someone momentarily enraged by a cheating spouse... but not enough.

    Gun control advocates show that deaths by cars have steadily dropped, which they attribute to safety regulations, while deaths by guns have increased.

    I think the solutions are complex, too complex for the average politician.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #4

    Feb 3, 2015, 07:24 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Criminals are responsible for crime, plain and simple, and the problem is catching and punishing them, since the cops can only react after they have committed a crime. I know of no laws to disarm ordinary citizens, just insure a nut from the loony bin doesn't get one, or a convicted felon.

    What's wrong with that? Now we can argue if you should have an uzi to defend yourself, or a high capacity clip,or a cannon, or bazooka.

    I guess you are against a simple background check too.
    The answer to your last statement is NO I am not against "simple background checks". I did not throw my post out, for anyone to question my feelings, more to give people something to think about. As for laws to disarm the ordinary citizen there have been many successful and many overturned. I am supportive of "concealed carry" as a useful tool.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #5

    Feb 3, 2015, 07:44 PM
    What laws are there to disarm the ordinary citizen?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,135, Reputation: 10852
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    #6

    Feb 3, 2015, 07:45 PM
    Wasn't trying to question your feelings, just engage in the exchange since you threw it out there. Pretty obvious since there are as many guns in America as citizens, local attempts at restricting access is a non starter. It's a right to own and carry, and an individual choice, but no guarantee of not being a victim.

    Criminals thrive on getting the drop on their victims.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #7

    Feb 3, 2015, 07:56 PM
    Scary thought, what if there were no guns period? No guns for us, no guns for the criminals, simply no guns at all! That's the only way to truly control who has guns and who doesn't.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #8

    Feb 3, 2015, 07:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    What laws are there to disarm the ordinary citizen?
    Just as a starter the expense and hoops that one has to jump through to get a "concealed carry permit". How about the DC Gun Law that was knocked down and since that time, I could be wrong but they have only issued 3 permits in all of DC.
    Also what about Chicago's gun laws?
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #9

    Feb 3, 2015, 08:28 PM
    The gun grabbing gun control advocates... might not be directly responsible... but they created a situation they share a moral if not legal responsibility for fascilitating.

    Pull up the statistics for violent crime in the UK. Compare it to the USA. Far higher than here. Lack of a gun never stopped or discouraged anyone from committing a crime or assault. Humans were beating other humans to death since the earliest caveman leaned to use tools to hunt. It didn't suddenly appear with the advent of firearms.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #10

    Feb 3, 2015, 08:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    The gun grabbing gun control advocates... might not be directly responsible... but they created a situation they share a moral if not legal responsibility for fascilitating.

    Pull up the statistics for violent crime in the UK. Compare it to the USA. Far higher than here. Lack of a gun never stopped or discouraged anyone from committing a crime or assault. Humans were beating other humans to death since the earliest caveman leaned to use tools to hunt. It didn't suddenly appear with the advent of firearms.
    Good to see you are back. Been a while since I have seen you post. Also have to agree with you. Your first paragraph is right on also.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #11

    Feb 3, 2015, 08:56 PM
    Hoops to jump through for concealed carry permit? One of my nurses at the health-care rehab I was in a year ago had a FOID card, took a weekend course, and got her permit.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #12

    Feb 3, 2015, 09:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    Good to see you are back. Been a while since I have seen you post. Also have to agree with you. Your first paragraph is right on also.
    I have a new job.. and rotating shifts... HUGE amount of training to go through.. Just haven't had a lot of free time in the short term. I will have more time in the coming months however. Never really left.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #13

    Feb 3, 2015, 09:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Hoops to jump through for concealed carry permit? One of my nurses at the health-care rehab I was in a year ago had a FOID card, took a weekend course, and got her permit.
    That is great and wonderful. Fortunately she must live in a state that is interested in the protection of one's self. Stop and think about the politicians who arm themselves and or have armed guards but pass laws that denies the ordinary citizen
    the same protections.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #14

    Feb 3, 2015, 09:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    That is great and wonderful. Fortunately she must live in a state that is interested in the protection of one's self. Stop and think about the politicians who arm themselves and or have armed guards but pass laws that denies the ordinary citizen
    the same protections.
    PS I think some of the Politicians are not all there and are they tested?
    Catsmine's Avatar
    Catsmine Posts: 3,827, Reputation: 739
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    #15

    Feb 4, 2015, 03:44 AM
    Statistics can be bent(or cherry-picked) to favor either side. The basic question is: Do individuals have a right to lethal self-defense? The British Commonwealth countries say no. Other Western nations such as the U.S. Switzerland, and Israel say yes. Politicians in all those countries are trying to change the laws. Indiana Jones reference - Choose Wisely.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #16

    Feb 4, 2015, 05:38 AM
    U.S. Switzerland, and Israel
    Very different cultures in all three of those, hard to lump them together as one example.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #17

    Feb 4, 2015, 09:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    That is great and wonderful. Fortunately she must live in a state that is interested in the protection of one's self. Stop and think about the politicians who arm themselves and or have armed guards but pass laws that denies the ordinary citizen
    the same protections.
    Illinois, the state you alluded to in an earlier post.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #18

    Feb 4, 2015, 10:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Illinois, the state you alluded to in an earlier post.
    Figured it was Illinois. Big difference in Chicago and Illinois and every other Big City around the Country. Do you go into places where you do not feel safe?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,870, Reputation: 5429
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    #19

    Feb 4, 2015, 10:04 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    Figured it was Illinois. Big difference in Chicago and Illinois and every other Big City around the Country. Do you go into places where you do not feel safe?
    Illinois was the last state to approve concealed carry. There are MANY parts of Chicago that are perfectly safe, and only a few neighborhoods that should be avoided, even during the day.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #20

    Feb 4, 2015, 02:28 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Illinois was the last state to approve concealed carry. There are MANY parts of Chicago that are perfectly safe, and only a few neighborhoods that should be avoided, even during the day.
    Same is true in just about all Big Cities and that is not just true for whites.

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