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    spidey24's Avatar
    spidey24 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    May 18, 2008, 07:56 AM
    Property line and position of the property markers
    Hi, we have been having a problem with our neighbors about our property. It seems like they have been enchroaching more and more. Finally they got a survey but all I see are two markers, one is on the top asphalt separating the property to the left of them, then there is a marker all the way in the back. I was wondering if that one marker in the back shows the property line between the house and the house on the right?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #2

    May 18, 2008, 08:14 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by spidey24
    Hi, we have been having a problem with our neighbors about our property. It seems like they have been enchroaching more and more. Finally they got a survey but all i see are two markers, one is on the top asphalt separating the property to the left of them, then there is a marker all the way in the back. I was wondering if that one marker in the back shows the property line between the the house and the house on the right?


    There is no way of knowing what the markers are unless they are certified markers (in my area surveyor's markers have the surveyor's name on them and it is illegal to move them) or you have a survey done - or your neighbor will show you his survey.

    Surveys are often wrong - I came home to find a neighbor getting read to dismantle a chainlink fence (I have a privacy fence inside a chainlink fence) because their survey indicated the fence is on their property. In fact it's 18" in on my property and I had it installed. I don't know how mistakes like this can happen but theirs was a Licensed Surveyor.
    ac101's Avatar
    ac101 Posts: 463, Reputation: 57
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    #3

    May 18, 2008, 09:46 AM
    It costs a little but I would consider having my own survey done and having them set certified markers and have them send you an updated land plat. If I missed anyting let me know. Good Luck , AC
    eddiy75ru's Avatar
    eddiy75ru Posts: 38, Reputation: 6
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    #4

    May 18, 2008, 10:00 AM
    First of all your description of left and right neighbors/houses does not explain which is your lot. Second, it takes two points (makers) to make a line, so there should be two markers (minimum) somewhere between your lot and your subject neighbor's lot. You should obtain a legally prepared and filed property map/plot plan (City or County offices have them); you may have your own "plot plan" from your purchase of the property. Also if you can ask for a copy of your neighbor's recently surveyed plot plan of their lot (IF they paid for the surveyor to prepare a new one, given one already exists at City?County), you may then be able to understand where the several property boundary points (markers) are physically located. If all else fails, you may have to hire a licensed surveyor to survey you lot, or maybe just locate and show you where they are on the ground (or asphalt). Last resort is to go to Court to settle where's my property line!
    PS - some local ordinances require a set-back of any structure or fence from the actual property, so beware of using existing structure for determining true property boundaries. An just because some object/structure has been there a long time does not make a legal property boundary.

    The reply by JudyKayTee does not answer your question. Believe your question is where are the two points (markers) that form a line that represents the dividing boundary between the two lots. A professional Survey can be rough or very detailed, it all depends on what you pay for. Temporary markers can be just as correct as permanent (certified) makers. Also depending on how old the area you live is, over the many years records and survey data can sometimes become confusing and even misleading to professional, licensed surveyors. So there are cases when reconcilling all the data can be difficult and even controversial. Finally one of the biggest problems with non-professional property owners deciding where their property boundaries are located is that sometimes other non-property type "markers" also exist that are in fact not "property boundary" markers. Utility lines/easements and street geometry markers are two such common markers.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #5

    May 18, 2008, 10:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by eddiy75ru
    First of all your description of left and right neighbors/houses does not explain which is your lot. Second, it takes two points (makers) to make a line, so there should be two markers (minimum) somewhere between your lot and your subject neighbor's lot. You should obtain a legally prepared and filed property map/plot plan (City or County offices have them); you may have your own "plot plan" from your purchase of the property. Also if you can ask for a copy of your neighbor's recently surveyed plot plan of their lot (IF they paid for the surveyor to prepare a new one, given one already exists at City?County), you may then be able to understand where the several property boundary points (markers) are physically located. If all else fails, you may have to hire a licensed surveyor to survey you lot, or maybe just locate and show you where they are on the ground (or asphalt). Last resort is to go to Court to settle where's my property line!!
    PS - some local ordinances require a set-back of any structure or fence from the actual property, so beware of using existing structure for determining true property boundaries. An just because some object/structure has been there a long time does not make a legal property boundary.

    The reply by JudyKayTee does not answer your question. Believe your question is where are the two points (markers) that form a line that represents the dividing boundary between the two lots. A professional Survey can be rough or very detailed, it all depends on what you pay for. Temporary markers can be just as correct as permanent (certified) makers. Also depending on how old the area you live is, over the many years records and survey data can sometimes become confusing and even misleading to professional, licensed surveyors. So there are cases when reconcilling all the data can be difficult and even controversial. Finally one of the biggest problems with non-professional property owners deciding where their property boundaries are located is that sometimes other non-property type "markers" also exist that are in fact not "property boundary" markers. Utility lines/easements and street geometry markers are two such common markers.


    The question was: "I was wondering if that one marker in the back shows the property line between the the house and the house on the right?" and neither one of us answered it.

    I guess the answer is - "I don't know what the marker in the back shows."
    spidey24's Avatar
    spidey24 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    May 18, 2008, 11:09 AM
    Well we own the house to the right. The problem is that there are two point but I don't understand what that translates too. Do these two points form a line on one side of the property or does each marker signify the edges of the property(one to the left and one to the right)? The surveyopr they got shows the property in our favor if it's the latter of the two options, but I assume everyone's answer is going to be get another survey to be sure. I'm sorry if my description and thanks for answering to promplty.
    eddiy75ru's Avatar
    eddiy75ru Posts: 38, Reputation: 6
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    #7

    May 18, 2008, 07:09 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by spidey24
    Well we own the house to the right. The problem is that there are two point but i don't understand what that translates too. Do these two points form a line on one side of the property or does each marker signify the edges of the property(one to the left and one to the right)? The surveyopr they got shows the property in our favor if its the latter of the two options, but I assume everyones answer is going to be get another survey to be sure. I'm sorry if my description and thanks for answering to promplty.
    You should contact someone who understands property survey work and have that person visit the location and also show them your own Property Plot Plan (since you own the property). Perhaps your municipal Zoning or Planning office will assist you in the matter. Anyway, most city or town residential house lots are rectangular in shape, but they NOT always be a perfect rectangle (opposite sides of equal length). Also some property lots even have irregular points along their sides, with associated intermediate boundary points. But if the lot is a rectangle, it has four corners and those corners are typically what a Survey locates and marks on the ground, these are called Property Boundary Corners (corners of a rectangle). So if your neighbor's Surveyor identified and physically marked two points (one point at front and one point at back of your lots), those are likely two of the Property Boundary Corners that exist between your and your neighbor's lots (these points are the corners for their property as well as for your property; the line between these points is called the boundary line). And as you said above, these two points (Property Corners) form a line that represents the legal boundary between you and your neighbor's properties. Normally a Survey does not physically mark that boundary line on the ground/surface; if the surveyor did they would typically mark a line on the ground using spray paint or a series of small "pin flags" stuck into the ground. So sounds like from your descriptions that you can visually sight/look from one marker point to the other, and visualize approximately where your property boundary line is located. If as you think your neighbor now recognizes where the corners and boundary between you two are located, maybe you can ask them to explain the Survey Markers and you both can see/agree where the property line is located. If not, then at least they know you are informed about property corners and boundary lines.
    spidey24's Avatar
    spidey24 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    May 19, 2008, 08:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by eddiy75ru
    You should contact someone who understands property survey work and have that person visit the location and also show them your own Property Plot Plan (since you own the property). Perhaps your municipal Zoning or Planning office will assist you in the matter. Anyway, most city or town residential house lots are rectangular in shape, but they NOT always be a perfect rectangle (opposite sides of equal length). Also some property lots even have irregular points along their sides, with associated intermediate boundary points. But if the lot is a rectangle, it has four corners and those corners are typically what a Survey locates and marks on the ground, these are called Property Boundary Corners (corners of a rectangle). So if your neighbor's Surveyor identified and physically marked two points (one point at front and one point at back of your lots), those are likely two of the Property Boundary Corners that exist between your and your neighbor's lots (these points are the corners for their property as well as for your property; the line between these points is called the boundary line). And as you said above, these two points (Property Corners) form a line that represents the legal boundary between you and your neighbor's properties. Normally a Survey does not physically mark that boundary line on the ground/surface; if the surveyor did they would typically mark a line on the ground using spray paint or a series of small "pin flags" stuck into the ground. So sounds like from your descriptions that you can visually sight/look from one marker point to the other, and visualize approximately where your property boundary line is located. If as you think your neighbor now recognizes where the corners and boundary between you two are located, maybe you can ask them to explain the Survey Markers and you both can see/agree where the property line is located. If not, then at least they know you are informed about property corners and boundary lines.
    Thanks, this sounds pretty clear and I think it answers my question pretty well. Others please feel free to answer as well. Its always good to have more than one opinion on this.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,379, Reputation: 2280
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    #9

    May 19, 2008, 08:49 AM
    Check those markers that someone put in. Anybody can stick a stake in the ground and make it look like a survey was done but that's not a guarantee that the driven rod was found. The wooden stake just draws you attention to a true survey rod driven into the ground at each corner of the property. The last property I bought was surveyed and they asked if I just wanted the old survey confirmed or a totally new survey done, I went totally new. The next time I visited the property the wooden stack was about 2' over from where it was the day of the survey, neighbors, go figure.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,379, Reputation: 2280
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    #10

    May 19, 2008, 12:36 PM
    Judy you got me laughing because that's what the neighbor suggested, it must have moved on its own. I just wondered why it happened to move toward the house. LOL
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #11

    May 19, 2008, 01:52 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ballengerb1
    Judy you got me laughing because thats what the neighbor suggested, it must have moved on its own. I just wondered why it happened to move toward the house. LOL

    Don't they always? Somehow there is never a misunderstanding involving property which is NOT yours but the neighbor thinks it IS! Always the other way around.

    Without my fence my neighbor would be mowing inside my house, claiming he thought that property was his and he was simply maintaining it.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,379, Reputation: 2280
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    #12

    May 19, 2008, 05:28 PM
    We have the same neighbor.
    spidey24's Avatar
    spidey24 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    May 19, 2008, 07:09 PM
    Ok guys I have finally got my answer so I'll share with you what I found out. The two markers are preliminary markers that are used by the surveyor to use as a reference later. He came back around two weeks later and put in the wooden stakes that signify the boundary line. I didn't know this was a two day job but I hope this topic helps others later. I appreciate the help, and yes it was a certified surveyor who did the job so all is good now. Thanks guys and I hope this sheds some light on some of the other users issues.
    javeed's Avatar
    javeed Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Feb 26, 2009, 08:53 PM
    :p

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