Fr Chuck,
I have always wondered why you baptize babies. In my church we dedicate them back to God. It is basically the same thing isn't it?

This question was asked in a different thread, since it's a separate question I moved it here.

Because the gift is for us and for our children.
Acts Of Apostles 2
38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call.

And when the Apostles baptized the new converts they baptized whole households:
1 Corinthians 1 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanus; besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

That means they didn't leave out babies. And that makes sense because Baptism replaces circumcision which was administered to little babies:
Luke 1 59 And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they called him by his father's name Zachary.

Colossians 2
11 In whom also you are circumcised with circumcision not made by hand, in despoiling of the body of the flesh, but in the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, in whom also you are risen again by the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him up from the dead.

No. Your dedication is symbolic. In Baptism, your children receive the Holy Spirit, are washed of Original Sin from their soul and become children of God.

I hope that helps.

Sincerely,

De Maria

This is one where of course those few churches that do not baptise babies will not accept, but in general the majority of Christians do baptise babies, Lutherans, Methodist, Anglican, Orthodox, Cathoiic and many more all baptise babkes.

It comes from the teachings of Christ to go and baptise all people,
And it is confirmed where you see a man and his entire household being baptised.. Did not Jesus even tell us to not stop the little children from coming to him.

So basically this is the practice of the church from early times. The only difference it went from immersion to pouring the water over them.
** although the Orthodox still immerse the infant by holding the hand over nose and mouth.

This does not stop them from making their own professional of faith for accepting Christ, this is done though a confirmation process in most of the churches that bapitise the infants.

Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

2Cr 3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

From the above, you can see how there's a focus on the physical, vs the spiritual. I admire the catholic faith for taking steps to ensure even
Babies are blessed. The forms for baptism, and circumcision are physical.
I can understand how these rites are carried out in a belief that they
Will put someone in a good place spiritually.
However, in light of this scripture:

Isa 1:10 Hear the word of Jehovah, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
Isa 1:11 What unto me is the multitude of your sacrifices? Saith Jehovah: I have had enough of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats.
Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to trample my courts?
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; new moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies,- I cannot away with iniquity and the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth; they are a trouble unto me; I am weary of bearing them.
Isa 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 learn to do well; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

... I would encourage everyone to focus upon the spiritual aspect of their
Own life with god and others. The reason, is because although we are
Told in the bible of certain things to do or not do, god is a living
Being that can see into the real meaning of everything. Our internal
Workings are more important to him, because our change will bring about
Our own peace, and will place others before ourselves, out of love, which
Is not physical, but spiritual, from within. Since god is spirit, he
Can change us from within, making the physical mirror the internal.

Then, the sacrifice of our own will and heart, by its change from god,
Is acceptable to him, instead of participating in something physical, that
Can't get on the inside of us. To make god activate in our lives, is as
Simple as believing what he says about himself, and listening internally
For instructions. Your conscience is a good guide, as well as common
Sense. You can't get god to do something for you through doing something
Physical. But you can get acceptance for your actions out of obeying what
He tells you.

Those who baptize infants believe in the concept of original sin "sins of the fathers vested on the sons" etc.

Those who do not believe in original sin do not baptize until one has reached awareness and accountability "when I was a child I believed as a child spake as a child" etc.

For the record, I do not believe in original sin. I believe that mankind suffers the consequences of original sin, but not sin itself. Jesus could not have died a perfect sacrifice if he bore original sin. Also, original sin would effectively tempt us beyond our ability to resist. So, I do not think that the concept of original sin is valid. I felt a need to state my faith here, but that is not relevant to your question.

Baptism is for the remission of sins. (some would argue this, but I believe it is plainly stated).

A dedication is simply that. A covenant or promise to God to raise the child as a Christian.

are you saying that original sin is only that done by adam, and therefore not by anyone else? Also, I don't understand why you say jesus could not have died a perfect sacrifice if he bore original sin?

My apologies if I have changed the question to a discussion of original sin but yes Eve's original sin was her sin alone and Adam's sin was his alone. However, mankind bears the consequences of their sin (death).
Jesus was the "perfect" sacrifice. If he bore "original sin" himself by virtue of being human, he would not be "perfect". The wages of sin is death, so if Jesus bore original sin from Eve or Adam he would deserve death for this sin. It is because he had no sin that he is a perfect sacrifice and his death can atone for the sins of the world.

Getting back to the original question:

Therefore, without "original sin" from Eve or Adam infants have no sins and would thus have no need to be baptized for the remission of sins.

What is original sin in your opinion?

According to scripture, baptism is symbolic also.

Actually scripture says that the blood that Jesus shed on the cross is the only thing that take away sins.

Heb 9:21-22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
NKJV

You make statements like that without supporting references. Please provide the Scripture. Because what I see in Scripture says:

1 Peter 3 21 Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Sincerely,

De Maria

How many times must they be posted? Here are a few:

Rom 3:24-25
4 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood,
NKJV

Rom 5:9-10
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
NKJV

Col 1:13-15
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
NKJV

Col 1:19-21
20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
NKJV

Heb 9:21-22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
NKJV

Heb 10:19
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
NKJV

1 Peter 1:18-19
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ,
NKJV

Rev 1:5
From Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
NKJV

Rev 5:9
9 And they sang a new song, saying:
"You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
NKJV

I never understood why people literally want to water down the blood.

Good answer. But Hmm? Does that mean that you are continually sacrificing Jesus? Since you don't believe that Baptism by water and Spirit remits sin as Scripture says. And you don't believe that you can participate in the once for all sacrifice, that must mean that you are continually sacrificing Jesus to wash yourself in His blood.

But we believe all of Scripture and Scripture says that Baptism remits sin. We also believe that we participate in Jesus' once for all sacrifice by eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood which washes us of sin. Only difference is, we don't sacrifice Him again, but participate in the once for all sacrifice.

Since you don't, then you must be sacrificing Him again in order to have the blood to wash your sins.

Sincerely,

De Maria

No. I do not attend Mass.

It doesn't say it - you only claim that it does. Surely if it did, you could show us where.
You have enough trouble defending your position, don't try telling me what I must believe. I do not belong to your denomination and I do not attend your Mass.

Because you don't understand the Scriptures.

Heb 10
24 And let us consider one another, to provoke unto charity and to good works: 25 Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries. 28 A man making void the law of Moses, dieth without any mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 How much more, do you think he deserveth worse punishments, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath esteemed the blood of the testament unclean, by which he was sanctified, and hath offered an affront to the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said: Vengeance belongeth to me, and I will repay. And again: The Lord shall judge his people.

John 3 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 6 4 For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life.

1 Peter 3 21 Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Acts Of Apostles 2 38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts Of Apostles 22 16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.

I'll let others decide who has the more reasonable, charitable and ethical arguments.

I wonder then, why you always try telling me what I must believe. Do you consider yourself an authority of the Church or over Scripture?

To your eternal sorrow.

Sincerely,

De Maria

So you say. I believe God's word over yours.

Good - then you plan to stop the personal remarks?

Ho hum - another accusation and just after you had suggested that you were going to stop it. Of course I never said such a thing, but if you feel convicted when I quote God's word, then you may want to consider what God is telling you.

Hebrews 10 is pretty clear.

What personal remarks?

No, I'm talking about when you misrepresent Catholic teaching. And when you misrepresent Church history.

Now TJ, I was going to forget about your and saintjoan's conspiracy to deceive innocent Catholics. But if you insist on making false accusations against me, perhaps you'll tell us which Saint you claim was buried under the Lateran Church and show your innocence in that regard. Otherwise your complicity in that deed is obvious.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Yes it is, as is all of scripture. I do not see why you argue against it.
Why don't you just stop the personal remarks and deal with the issue. If you think that you know something validate it, don't abuse those who disagree.
Conspiracy now is it :D - paranoia is a terrible thing, De Maria