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    blaine_jack's Avatar
    blaine_jack Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jun 18, 2011, 10:08 PM
    salvation?
    what if person sin again after being saved?
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,305, Reputation: 7692
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    #2

    Jun 18, 2011, 10:15 PM

    In Christianity, the answer will depend on what part or group within Christianity they belong to.

    Some groups teach that once you are saved, you are forgiven and if you error and sin again, you are still saved.
    You may have lessor rewards in heaven but will be saved.

    Others teach that depending on how serious the sin ( we all sin every day) do you speed when driving, do you get angry when someone cuts you off when driving. Are you tempted or day dream sexually when you see someone of the other sex slightly dressed.

    So for some, you need to repent often and ask God to forgive you.

    And for others, there is somewhere between, that unless you do a serious sin, and do it willfully, you are saved.
    gromitt82's Avatar
    gromitt82 Posts: 370, Reputation: 23
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    #3

    Jun 19, 2011, 08:43 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by blaine_jack View Post
    what if person sin again after being saved?
    You question looks like a twofold one to me. You will only be saved if you gain Heaven when you die. That will be your reward for your earthen deeds and it will be eternal. So once you are saved you cannot possibly sin again, for you are already enjoying the view of God.
    On the other hand, if by saved you mean to be forgiven in the act of confession, according to the RC Church, then if you sin again you will have to repent of your sin before your own conscience or confess again.
    One of the things, however, that seem to become at present less mandatory in the RC Church is the Sacrament of Penance.
    Therefore if your new sin is not too big and somber as long as you feel sincerely sorry for it chances are that your salvation will still be in force.
    I put it like that, because in actual fact, NO ONE can be sure of his/her salvation till he/she faces the Supreme Judge!
    Gromitt82
    hauntinghelper's Avatar
    hauntinghelper Posts: 2,854, Reputation: 290
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    #4

    Jun 19, 2011, 07:31 PM
    1 John 2

    1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
    -----
    Let's just go with what the BIBLE teaches us. Is this a credit card to do whatever we want? By all means NO... but it shows the love and mercy of our Lord and I thank God everyday for His grace. There is no sin that the blood of Jesus cannot wash away and if we confess our sin to Him, He is faithful to forgive us.

    1 John 1:9
    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

    Blaine, being a Christian doesn't mean you now walk perfect everyday. It simply means we now have the grace to do what we weren't able to before salvation. Yes, there is a call to Holy living... and much needs to be said about that, but when we fall short... as we all do... God is there to uphold us by His might hand.
    Riot's Avatar
    Riot Posts: 130, Reputation: 29
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    #5

    Jun 20, 2011, 06:03 AM

    "Blaine, being a Christian doesn't mean you now walk perfect everyday"

    very true.
    salvation is a gift. No one doesn't NOT sin when they become christians, we're still human.
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,186, Reputation: 174
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    #6

    Jun 21, 2011, 09:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Riot View Post
    "Blaine, being a Christian doesn't mean you now walk perfect everyday"

    very true.
    salvation is a gift. no one doesnt NOT sin when they become christians, we're still human.
    Agreed. Everybody sins. We don't "gain" heaven, it's given to us freely in spite of ourselves. If I couldn't do enough to merit gaining salvation in the first place, it doesn't make sense that I could do enough to merit losing it later on. That's not how a gift works. If I try to live in sin after being saved, I'll be about as happy as a pig skydiving, but I'll still be saved. Living for the Lord after being saved is for our benefit, not God's, because we're much happier that way. Seek the Lord, do your best, and ask him to forgive your failings. He will.
    gromitt82's Avatar
    gromitt82 Posts: 370, Reputation: 23
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    #7

    Jun 23, 2011, 03:31 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by dwashbur View Post
    Agreed. Everybody sins. We don't "gain" heaven, it's given to us freely in spite of ourselves. If I couldn't do enough to merit gaining salvation in the first place, it doesn't make sense that I could do enough to merit losing it later on. That's not how a gift works. If I try to live in sin after being saved, I'll be about as happy as a pig skydiving, but I'll still be saved. Living for the Lord after being saved is for our benefit, not God's, because we're much happier that way. Seek the Lord, do your best, and ask him to forgive your failings. He will.
    I suppose that when you use the word save you actually mean forgive, don't you?
    On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge, only Catholic priests, through the Sacrament of Confession are able to forgive our sins. Other than that, we can, of course, repent of our sins, but we shall not know whether we have been forgiven until we take the oneway train that will take us before God...
    Gromitt82
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,186, Reputation: 174
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    #8

    Jun 23, 2011, 11:33 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by gromitt82 View Post
    I suppose that when you use the word save you actually mean forgive, don't you?
    On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge, only Catholic priests, through the Sacrament of Confession are able to forgive our sins. Other than that, we can, of course, repent of our sins, but we shall not know whether or not we have been forgiven until we take the oneway train that will take us before God...
    Gromitt82
    Excuse me, but no human can forgive my sins. Even the Jewish leaders of Jesus' day acknowledged that only God can forgive sins. That was why they got so upset when Jesus declared a man's sins forgiven. The New Testament repeatedly says that we are forgiven when we repent, so if your church teaches something else, then it's wrong.
    gromitt82's Avatar
    gromitt82 Posts: 370, Reputation: 23
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    #9

    Jun 24, 2011, 10:23 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by dwashbur View Post
    Excuse me, but no human can forgive my sins. Even the Jewish leaders of Jesus' day acknowledged that only God can forgive sins. That was why they got so upset when Jesus declared a man's sins forgiven. The New Testament repeatedly says that we are forgiven when we repent, so if your church teaches something else, then it's wrong.






    Excuse me, my dear Dwashbur, but I think that your knowledge of the New Testament leaves somewhat to be desired.

    In John 20:23, according to the New Int.l Version, you can read: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

    In Mt 16:19, after the same version, you can read:
    “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

    In Mt 18:18, Jesus adds: "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven”

    In Revelation 1:18, John says: “I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades”.

    In Revelation 3:7, John continues: “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open”

    In Mk 11:26, the Evangelist writes: “But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions."

    I have been quoting the Bible of the New In.l Version to simplify but in all the other versions I have, including the KJV, there can be found the same text with little variations.

    The point, however, is that, obviously, all the above reflect the way the Evangelist translate what Jesus said, which in fact, boils down to the institution of the Sacrament of Penance or Confession by Jesus, himself.

    It is true that this institution has been debated ever since the Council of Trent, but it is also no less true that, in 1907, Pius X, clearly declared the relevance of the Gospel of John 20:22-23 (above mentioned), in his Encyclical Lamentabili Sane Exitu, thus, overriding all previous statements.

    Notwithstanding the above, an interesting point to ponder is that already in the O.T. Isaiah 22:22, already predicts: “I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.” Which tantamounts to the same.

    As you can, therefore, see some Humans are “officially” authorized by the “Big Boss”, himself, (with all due respect) to forgive man’s sins. A different thing altogether is that you DO NOT like to confess your sins to some priest you do not even know.

    In fact, I don’t either.

    And I must add that the RCC lately has become very lenient about the need to confess before taking the Communion, as long as one feels SINCERELY SORRY AND REPENTS FOR HIS/HER SINS.

    Still, the Sacrament is ALWAYS in force!!

    On the other hand, using your own argument, I must conclude that when you were talking of being saved you were speaking only of repentance. And then you are also wrong, because NOBODY can guarantee that this type of personal repentance implies GOD’s forgiveness.

    Best regards
    Gromitt82
    Riot's Avatar
    Riot Posts: 130, Reputation: 29
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    #10

    Jun 25, 2011, 03:36 AM

    Ummm...

    Romans 6:23 "... the FREE gift of god is eternal life through Jesus christ our lord"

    Romans 10:9: "If you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Ephesians 2:8/9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
    gromitt82's Avatar
    gromitt82 Posts: 370, Reputation: 23
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    #11

    Jun 25, 2011, 03:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Riot View Post
    ummm....

    Romans 6:23 "... the FREE gift of god is eternal life through Jesus christ our lord"

    Romans 10:9: "If you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Ephesians 2:8/9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
    And..?
    None of these quotes reject the institution of the Sacrament of Penance and certainly, as they refer to several letters Paul of Tarsus wrote to the Ephesians and to the Romans, they only emphasize what Saint Paul -and most Christians- believe.
    As for the quote of 1 John 1:9, he actually mentions "if we confess our sins". He cannot refer to God, for there is no need to confess our sins to God, who is perfectly aware of whatever we do or of how we behave.
    He is therefore referring to someone down here, i.e. a priest!
    Gromitt82
    Riot's Avatar
    Riot Posts: 130, Reputation: 29
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    #12

    Jun 26, 2011, 12:53 AM

    No no no, God KNOWS we've sinned but he wants us to ADMIT it and come in humility.

    In 1 john 1:9 it does not refer to a Priest. From 1:5 to 1:10 it is all refferenced to God.

    In john 20:23 doesn't mean "man can forgive sins" it means you can go to someone and say to them: "if you receive jesus you are forgiven"


    I think your totally missing the point in romans 10:9 too. It doesn't say "if you go to a priest" it says "if you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart, you will be saved"
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,186, Reputation: 174
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    #13

    Jun 26, 2011, 07:21 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by gromitt82 View Post
    As for the quote of 1 John 1:9, he actually mentions "if we confess our sins". He cannot refer to God, for there is no need to confess our sins to God, who is perfectly aware of whatever we do or of how we behave.
    He is therefore referring to someone down here, i.e. a priest!
    Gromitt82
    I hope this is a joke. If you're serious, then you seem to know very little about the Bible. David confessed his sins to God numerous times in the Psalms. Plenty of others confessed their sins to God throughout the Bible. Of course God knows what we've done; confession is for our benefit, not His. We confess to god to come clean. It's for clearing the conscience. But our willingness to come to God and say "I was wrong" is the basis of His forgiveness. Why? Because we won't accept forgiveness until we know we need it. He offers, but until we admit it's needed, we won't take it. It's perfectly simple: go to God in humility and say "I sinned." He says "I forgive you and cleanse you from all unrighteousness." No need for any earthly person.

    If you want to cram a priest into this verse, you're going to need a bigger shoehorn, because there was no such thing when John wrote that sentence. According to 1 Peter 2:9, we're all priests, in fact we're a royal priesthood. The kind of priest that the RCC has came along later, and is contrary to what the Bible actually says.

    I'll try to address your other verses later on; at the moment I have to get ready to go to a service at Joe's Church and Vacuum Cleaner Repair.
    dom.b.fortin's Avatar
    dom.b.fortin Posts: 27, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Jul 11, 2011, 09:06 PM
    Comment on gromitt82's post
    a... confess doesn't mean awareness it's admission... u admit 2 God that you have sinned and you humble yourself to Him for forgiveness.. and of course Riot is right, it refers to God alone, kindly read the whole chapter for you to understand
    classyT's Avatar
    classyT Posts: 1,562, Reputation: 214
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    #15

    Jul 20, 2011, 02:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by dwashbur View Post
    Excuse me, but no human can forgive my sins. Even the Jewish leaders of Jesus' day acknowledged that only God can forgive sins. That was why they got so upset when Jesus declared a man's sins forgiven. The New Testament repeatedly says that we are forgiven when we repent, so if your church teaches something else, then it's wrong.
    Ooooooh, we disagree my buddy ol pal. The gospel of grace says we are forgiven/saved after we BELIEVE. We are either covered under the blood or we aren't. It doesn't need to be applied by repenting over and over every time we mess up. Now, do I really think we disagree? NOPE but I thought I'd get something started... for grins. :D but who knows you can be a bit screwy sometimes... maybe you will fight me on it. Ha.
    gromitt82's Avatar
    gromitt82 Posts: 370, Reputation: 23
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    #16

    Jul 21, 2011, 09:29 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by classyT View Post
    ooooooh, we disagree my buddy ol pal. The gospel of grace says we are forgiven/saved after we BELIEVE. We are either covered under the blood or we aren't. It doesn't need to be applied by repenting over and over everytime we mess up. Now, do I really think we disagree? NOPE but i thought I'd get something started...for grins. :D but who knows you can be a bit screwy sometimes...maybe you will fight me on it. ha.
    If you want to fight with Dwashbur it is up to you, though I feel sorry for you. At any rate, I will not enter any debate with you re. what you say... but also just for grins :D you just wait, coronel Higgings, you just wait... and you will see..
    Gromitt82
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,927, Reputation: 5430
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    #17

    Jul 21, 2011, 09:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by classyT View Post
    It doesn't need to be applied by repenting over and over everytime we mess up.
    We daily sin and we daily repent and ask for forgiveness.

    Of course, if you don't sin any longer, there's no problem.
    gromitt82's Avatar
    gromitt82 Posts: 370, Reputation: 23
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    #18

    Jul 21, 2011, 09:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    We daily sin and we daily repent and ask for forgiveness.

    Of course, if you don't sin any longer, there's no problem.
    Of course, if she does not sin, no problem whatsoever... But does not she?
    Gromitt82:D
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,927, Reputation: 5430
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    #19

    Jul 21, 2011, 09:50 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by gromitt82 View Post
    Of course, if she does not sin, no problem whatsoever... But does not she?
    I'm looking forward to her response.
    gromitt82's Avatar
    gromitt82 Posts: 370, Reputation: 23
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    #20

    Jul 21, 2011, 09:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    I'm looking forward to her response.
    Good luck!
    Gromitt82:confused:

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