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    Triund's Avatar
    Triund Posts: 271, Reputation: 24
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    #1

    May 27, 2010, 10:28 AM
    Healing
    Recently Lord rebuked me for my sinful life. I am in the process of cleaning up. Hence battery of my faith is running low right now. I have asked Lord Jesus to recharge it. HE has hooked me up for a recharge free of cost:D.

    In the meantime a question came to my mind that how do non-Christians, claim to get healed or prayers answered when they do not pray in the name of Jesus? I saw a video of Johanna Michaelsen on internet where she used to heal people with spirits before coming to Jesus. Others claim that they only pray to their god and get their prayers answered. I am not at all saying that Jesus does not answer prayers or there is another way to reach Lord God than Jesus. But I am not able to contemplate who is answering prayers of non-Christians and healing them whereas there is only Jesus who is living God.

    Hope I am able to put my question across to you... :o
    TUT317's Avatar
    TUT317 Posts: 657, Reputation: 76
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    #2

    May 27, 2010, 03:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Triund View Post

    In the meantime a question came to my mind that how do non-Christians, claim to get healed or prayers answered when they do not pray in the name of Jesus? I saw a video of Johanna Michaelsen on internet where she used to heal people with spirits before coming to Jesus. Others claim that they only pray to their god and get their prayers answered. I am not at all saying that Jesus does not answer prayers or there is another way to reach Lord God than Jesus. But I am not able to contemplate who is answering prayers of non-Christians and healing them whereas there is only Jesus who is living God.

    Hope I am able to put my question across to you...:o

    Hi Triund,

    Some people claim that meditation can cure some diseases such as cancer. If this is the case then the healing comes from within.

    On this basis I guess we can look at healing coming from an external or internal source. The examples you give are external sources, e.g. Jesus.

    Meditation would be an example of an internal source of healing through the power of the mind.

    Regards

    Tut
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,305, Reputation: 7692
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    #3

    May 27, 2010, 03:20 PM

    Even the false priests in Egypt could copy many of the miricles that Moses did. First the belief you were healed has some to do with healings in some people,

    And of course I would rule a lot of the TV or healing preachers who heal every person every time on TV, Even Jesus was said not to do as many miracles in his own home town,

    And remember we are warned about false "gods" it never said that these gods were not or could not do some powers, in fact we are even warmed of the power of some of them
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,927, Reputation: 5430
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    #4

    May 27, 2010, 03:46 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Triund View Post
    how do non-Christians, claim to get healed
    A lot of illness is "psychsomatic," is caused by stress, is self-induced. That's why psychics and faith healers can heal people (even for real), by causing them to change their thinking about how they feel.

    As a counselor, I know how much thoughts and feelings affect the physical. A client would tell me how much better he/she felt after airing upsets -- the stress level would go down, there would be a better attitude about things and people, solutions to problems would come about, life would improve. And I know from personal experience how much stress can affect physical problems and make them worse and cause actually illnesses.

    The mind has a tremendous influence over the physical.
    jakester's Avatar
    jakester Posts: 582, Reputation: 165
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    #5

    May 27, 2010, 07:08 PM

    Triund - just curious. How you are able to interpret that the Lord has rebuked you? And how is that linked to your question about healing? Is there a connection?
    Triund's Avatar
    Triund Posts: 271, Reputation: 24
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    #6

    May 28, 2010, 11:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jakester View Post
    Triund - just curious. How you are able to interpret that the Lord has rebuked you? And how is that linked to your question about healing? Is there a connection?
    Jake, even though I called myself very strong Christian, every time I prayed to Lord Jesus whenever I ran into trouble, every time I got any blessing, I thanked Lord Jesus only, I shared Jesus with people, yet I did not realize that I was living in sin so cozily. I continued to have pre-marital relationship with my girlfriend, whereas I was telling people that God has allowed to have physical relationship only between husband and wife. And a boyfriend or fiancé is not a husband and girlfriend or fiancée is not a wife.

    I heard many times on radio, read articles, people told me about sin of pre-marital, but that never made home in me. Even my own conscious told me that it was wrong, but I snubbed it always and self justified myself that I was giving her the pleasure. I always thought that Lord God would forgive me when I confess my sins. I never realized that Lord God eventually lifts HIS hand away from a person who lives in prolonged sin and mine was a prolonged sin.

    It was only when I heard a speaker on Christian radio saying that God forgives your sins when you confess it. I was driving with my friend and told him that it was true and God would forgive my sin of pre-marital too. My friend, then, took out a scripture from the Bible and told me what I was doing and where I was. I argued with him and justified my action but one by one he defeated all my points and told me about prolonged sin. That's when I realized what life I was living in. I just can not afford to risk God taking HIS hand away from me. I immediately told him to pray for me and after him I prayed and confessed my sins.

    That's what I call that the Lord rebuked me. HE nudged me many times about my sin, but I did not listen to HIM till the day my friend showed how wrong I was.
    jakester's Avatar
    jakester Posts: 582, Reputation: 165
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    #7

    May 31, 2010, 05:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Triund View Post
    Jake, even though I called myself very strong Christian, everytime I prayed to Lord Jesus whenever I ran into trouble, everytime I got any blessing, I thanked Lord Jesus only, I shared Jesus with people, yet I did not realize that I was living in sin so cozily. I continued to have pre-marital relationship with my girlfriend, whereas I was telling people that God has allowed to have physical relationship only between husband and wife. And a boyfriend or fiance is not a husband and girlfriend or fiancee is not a wife.

    I heard many times on radio, read articles, people told me about sin of pre-marital, but that never made home in me. Even my own conscious told me that it was wrong, but I snubbed it always and self justified myself that I was giving her the pleasure. I always thought that Lord God would forgive me when I confess my sins. I never realized that Lord God eventually lifts HIS hand away from a person who lives in prolonged sin and mine was a prolonged sin.

    It was only when I heard a speaker on Christian radio saying that God forgives your sins when you confess it. I was driving with my friend and told him that it was true and God would forgive my sin of pre-marital too. My friend, then, took out a scripture from the Bible and told me what I was doing and where I was. I argued with him and justified my action but one by one he defeated all my points and told me about prolonged sin. That's when I realized what life I was living in. I just can not afford to risk God taking HIS hand away from me. I immediately told him to pray for me and after him I prayed and confessed my sins.

    That's what I call that the Lord rebuked me. HE nudged me many times about my sin, but I did not listen to HIM till the day my friend showed how wrong I was.
    Triund - thank you for your response. I better understand what you mean now.

    I'd like to suggest that your use of the phrase "God lifts HIS hand away from a person who lives in prolonged sin" is something that may be a little difficult to understand... at least to me it is. What do you mean "God lifts HIS hand away..."?

    There are times in the life of a believer where he/she can fall away from the commitment to walk blamelessly before the Lord, as it is put by some in the Old Testament. We know that after David committed adultery with Bathsheba and had Uriah killed in battle that a significant period had transpired in David's life where there was a rift between David and God. But I don't think that it was the case that God had removed his hand from David; it was that David had tried to hide himself from God. So loving was God that he sent Nathan the Prophet to call David out and expose his sin so that restoration between David and God would take place. David's sin was tremendous and yet as far as God was concerned, David was still under the care and love of God. If God "...lifts HIS hand away...", would you expect that he would send a prophet to David in that manner? I should think not. But God did.

    Triund, we have to distinguish for ourselves what God's character is really like as we live our lives. Do we sin? Yes. But we have an advocate with the Father, Christ Jesus. Are we stubborn and rebellious at times? Yes. But God is merciful and patient with us.

    The Apostle Paul understood that tension we face in life between knowing what is good and actually doing what is good. If God were to judge his people by their ability to do the right thing at all times, heaven would be an empty place. What is most important in evaluating our commitment to follow God isn't how well we managed to do things right; it's when we do the wrong thing, how we decide to live our lives in light of our failures. Do we learn from them? Do we persevere in doing good even though we fail miserably at times? Do we even care to take on the call to live for God in light of the moral struggles we face in life? It is not easy being a Christian because to take God seriously we have to go against the grain of our natures. Peter puts it in this way:

    "Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin."

    To suffer in the flesh as I understand it is to feel that struggle of trying to resist the impulses to dig in heartily and feed our desires to sin. When you are not trying to live for God, you just impulsively live your life according to your fleshly appetites. But when you desire to live for God, you feel the struggle of that because you are resisting what comes naturally and it is hard. So on the one hand, when we know we are not living as we ought to, it is right to feel shame and guilt. But on the other hand, we are genuinely involved in a struggle between good and evil and that war is being waged in our own bodies between the Spirit of God and our flesh. We should not think that God is not aware of that struggle and conclude that when we are losing in that battle that he has forsaken us:

    "If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

    “For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
    we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

    No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    So Triund, even though we can at different times walk wayward from what we know is right, God has not removed himself from caring for his own. He has committed himself to those he loves and will not let one sheep stray from the fold. Even though in our minds it may seem as if we are forsaken by God because of our sin, we have to look at the bigger picture and understand God's character and what salvation really means. Ultimately, when God chose to send Jesus Christ into the world to die for mankind, he was doing so for rebels and haters of God. Even though people become followers of Jesus, it does not mean that his people live sinless lives. That is not the picture given by anyone in the New Testament.

    Sincerely.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,927, Reputation: 5430
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    #8

    May 31, 2010, 05:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Triund View Post
    I never realized that Lord God eventually lifts HIS hand away from a person who lives in prolonged sin
    As Jakester said, God does not lift His hand way from any of us sinners. That voice is really one's conscience whispering accusations, and one's human self then responding with excuses and blaming (yes, even accusing God of lifting His hand away). God never abandons us; it is we who push ourselves away from God.
    Triund's Avatar
    Triund Posts: 271, Reputation: 24
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    #9

    Jul 2, 2010, 08:53 AM

    HI Jake and WG, I am, first of all, sorry for this delayed response. Got caught up with things in life.

    My saying of "God lifting His hand away" is based on the verse in Romans 1 where it say in verse 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves The context for this verse according to my understanding says that if we still keep ignoring HIS voice, HE would eventually let us live where we want to live. And then Devil takes us over. God was with David even though he did horrendous things. But I do not know if I can take that liberty. I feel that if you do something unknowingly, that won't be counted against you, but doing something knowingly would be a problem. Definitely God would forgive your sins when you confess them. But in my case, this was not happening. In spite of repeated repentances, I could not stop myself. We categorise sins as big and small. We may not lust, may not gossip, may not covet, may not be a hypocrite, may follow Ten Commandments religiously etc everyday, yet we tell lies countless times without feeling any strain on our conscience. If we say sin is sin and none is big or small, then lie should be equal to rape or murder which is not. I don't know know.

    A series of incidences happened after "The Lord rebuked me". And I was on a roller coasters of talks with my friends, thought and decisions. I did not realize the aftermath could be for me. I broke up with my girlfriend and gave her up to the Lord, and was thinking that by doing so the Lord would bring her to light. Now after five months of the break up, I realize that I should had carried on with her without Pre-marital relation. I should had stayed with her and continued to shared Jesus. Though I know very well that no one could come to Jesus until the Father does not bring Him to Jesus. Therefore, my efforts would had been in vain if she is not in the Predestined list of the Father. Yet HE still wants to have mercy and bring lost sheep home. I am ready to take that risk at least it would had given me the satisfaction that I tried. Now I feel that it was not a right thing to let her go as she does not want even talk or email as a friend. People are telling me that I should forget her and move on with life, whereas my heart says that I should wait and Lord God would touches her and she would change. I even know that praying and fasting for such things can go over decades before you see any result. I miss her a lot and pray all the time for her. Last night I was listening to sermon "Holding on Tight" by Charles Stanley. I realized that perhaps I am making her my idol which God hates. But I am finding very difficult to have faith on Lord God only in her case, whereas for deliverance from all other problems, my faith on Lord God is very strong. I do not understand why is it so and how should I deal with it.
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,183, Reputation: 174
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    #10

    Jul 2, 2010, 09:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Triund View Post
    HI Jake and WG, I am, first of all, sorry for this delayed response. Got caught up with things in life.

    My saying of "God lifting His hand away" is based on the verse in Romans 1 where it say in verse 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves The context for this verse according to my understanding says that if we still keep ignoring HIS voice, HE would eventually let us live where we want to live. And then Devil takes us over.
    Tri,
    This verse is actually talking about the situation of the world before Jesus came. It's a look back at how the world came to be the way it was. The cause of the situation was not as you describe, it was because people in general chose to worship the creation rather than the creator. It's a general-situation statement, and doesn't really have any application to an individual situation like yours (or mine or anybody else's). So no, this verse doesn't suggest that God has lifted or is going to lift his hand from you. If you belong to him, you belong to him. Does he like it when we stray away? No. But unlike us fickle humans, he doesn't give up.

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