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    1970rs's Avatar
    1970rs Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jun 23, 2006, 12:51 PM
    89 Civic swapped engine will not start. Read sticky
    I will try to keep this short. I have had this 89 hatchback civic for many years. My brother drove it and had the head gasket replaced. After this it always smoked a lot.This was about 5 years ago so it has been sitting. I found a 90 wagon model donor car with a bad tranny and decided to buy it and use the engine for the 89 to drive back and forth to work. Ok enough of the history.
    I swapped the engines( both 1.5L's) while I was at it I replaced the timing belt, clutch, and fuel pump (because the gas was very old). I have worked on these many times so I am confident the belt is timed correctly. Checked it twice to make sure. Went to start the car and it would not start. Would try to but never would. By the way my brother said it did this after he tried to get it running a year or so after he parked it. Checked the basics for fuel and fire. These were Ok but could not see a lot of fuel from the injectors. Pulled the ecu and it was flashing code 16. Ran through diagnostics and determined it was a bad ECU. Replaced the ecu with a known good one from the donor car still having the same problem. Every time I run through the trouble tree it leads me back to the same place. But I know the ecu from the donor is good since I drove the car home. I also tried to check for an injector pulse on both injectors and the noid light does not light. Pinned out the Main relay and it passed. Also replaced the main relay with the one from the donor car (drove it home) Sorry for such a long post but I want to include as much info as possible. I am at my wits end with it. I do not have much money in it so I could give up but, I can't let it win. Any suggestions or help from anyone would be very much appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Jay
    CroCivic91's Avatar
    CroCivic91 Posts: 729, Reputation: 23
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    #2

    Jun 23, 2006, 02:03 PM
    You can try replacing the injectors. Code 16 is fuel injection system. It would be easier to swap the whole throttle bodies, and see if your other injectors work.
    1970rs's Avatar
    1970rs Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Jun 23, 2006, 02:16 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by CroCivic91
    You can try replacing the injectors. Code 16 is fuel injection system. It would be easier to swap the whole throttle bodies, and see if your other injectors work.
    Sorry, Should have mentioned that. First I just swapped the injectors and then I swapped the them back and replaced to complete TB. Did not help. This thing is about to drive me crazy. I see a lot of posts about the MAP sensor. It is a possible suspect? Any Idea on why the noid light does not light? Seems like the inj are getting a pulse, You can smell gas and see a very fine mist while cranking. I have also swapped the distributors to no avail.
    Thanks,
    CroCivic91's Avatar
    CroCivic91 Posts: 729, Reputation: 23
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    #4

    Jun 23, 2006, 02:41 PM
    Oh, so you ARE getting both spark and fuel, and you are sure timing is correct. However, you are getting error code 16. If you are getting gas, it makes no sense. Are all electrical connections OK? Are all your grounds OK? Fuses?
    CroCivic91's Avatar
    CroCivic91 Posts: 729, Reputation: 23
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    #5

    Jun 23, 2006, 02:43 PM
    Also, if the gas was left in the reservoir for so long, you might have clogged the fuel filter when you (or your brother before you) tried to start it. See if you can replace it and try then. Fine mist is good, but if you're not getting enough fuel, it might not be enough to start the engine.
    1970rs's Avatar
    1970rs Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Jun 23, 2006, 02:58 PM
    I am getting spark and fuel. Just not sure if it is enough fuel. I did swap the filter from the donor car. It has good fuel pressure (as far as I can tell) I do not have an adapter to check it with a gauge. When removing the line from the TB I have good flow. It also has spark when testing with a spark tester. (also replaced plugs) I have checked the timing many times. I have advanced the cam a tooth at a time and retarded it to many different positions thinking maybe the belt was a tooth off. Nothing seems to help. You are correct it does not make sense. I have worked on cars and at a dealer for many years (Not anymore) and this car has stumped me better than any before. I keep thinking it is something simple I am overlooking. I have checked all of my connections from swapping the engines along with the main connectors on both strut tower and all looks OK. The ground on the thermostat housing is good also. It has to be something simple I am overlooking.

    Could it be the MAP sensor? Never seen one cause this but I guess anything is possible.

    Why would the injector connector not light a noid light?

    Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
    Thanks,
    kennydoesit's Avatar
    kennydoesit Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    May 24, 2007, 01:14 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by 1970rs
    I am getting spark and fuel. Just not sure if it is enough fuel. I did swap the filter from the donor car. It has good fuel pressure (as far as I can tell) I do not have an adapter to check it with a gauge. When removing the line from the TB I have good flow. it also has spark when testing with a spark tester. (also replaced plugs) I have checked the timing many times. I have advanced the cam a tooth at a time and retarded it to many different positions thinking maybe the belt was a tooth off. Nothing seems to help. You are correct it does not make sense. I have worked on cars and at a dealer for many years (Not anymore) and this car has stumped me better than any before. I keep thinking it is something simple i am overlooking. I have checked all of my connections from swapping the engines along with the main connectors on both strut tower and all looks OK. The ground on the thermostat housing is good also. It has to be something simple I am overlooking.

    Could it be the MAP sensor? Never seen one cause this but i guess anything is possible.

    Why would the injector connector not light a noid light?

    Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
    Thanks,


    Having the same problem from an 88 Civic (DUAL POINT Injectors).
    A CODE 16

    When I checked the ground strap at the THERMOSTAT, I get 5.76 volts from the strap to BATT GROUND. I have absolutely NO SPARK and NO NOID LIGHT ACTIVITY with the STRAP CONNECTED.

    However, when I disconnect the STRAP from THERMOSTAT HOUSING.. the NOID LIGHT comes ON. This appeared to me as an ECM problem. Im thinking that the ECM (ECU) is shorted to ground or something else is shorted to GROUND.

    I believe that there is 0.8 Amperes flowing from the STRAP (when disconnected) to the HOUSING..

    This is VERY STRANGE..

    I NEED HELP TOO..
    TxGreaseMonkey's Avatar
    TxGreaseMonkey Posts: 16,761, Reputation: 5597
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    #8

    May 24, 2007, 06:37 AM
    Kennydoesit, read sections A and B in the link below:

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...das-46563.html
    kennydoesit's Avatar
    kennydoesit Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    May 24, 2007, 09:55 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by txgreasemonkey
    Kennydoesit, read sections A and B in the link below:

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...das-46563.html

    Will do, this cars been disabled for 3 weeks now and I started to take it to the Dealer.
    It's like splitting Atoms; I will post any results that I may have later today.

    Thanks for the Info.
    kennydoesit's Avatar
    kennydoesit Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    May 24, 2007, 02:20 PM
    I found a CRANK ANGLE Senor test inside of a Haynes Manual. A resistance test of two sets of terminals (E & C and B & D or something of this order) yielded an acceptable resistance of 395 Ohms. However, another test of each individual terminal (E, C, B and D) to ground yielded NO CONTINUITY.

    The manual further suggests that if the CRK Angle sensor failed any of the tests that the entire distributor must be replaced.

    I installed a HEAD gasket before all of this happened and the owner was driving the car home; he never made it. The car test drove perfectly after I finished all the repairs (for atleast an hour), but, like I said, when he got in it.. it died in like 30 minutes after he paid me. I feel bad about the whole situation.

    I did, however, clean the engine compartment one last time before I handed it back to him. I was wondering if water might have eventually worked it's way into an already aging distributor; shorting out the CRK sensor?

    THE CRK sensor failed a GROUND continuity test (meaning there is an open somewhere inside of it).

    I guess that it's distributor time.

    ALSO, I still have NO power to the INJectors (DUal Point EFI).

    Any suggestions anyone? ANYONE.
    kennydoesit's Avatar
    kennydoesit Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    May 24, 2007, 05:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by txgreasemonkey
    Kennydoesit, read sections A and B in the link below:

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...das-46563.html
    .TxGreaseMnky... I have to perform the K-Test (I overlooked it earlier), because I need to make sure it's NOT an ECM problem.
    TxGreaseMonkey's Avatar
    TxGreaseMonkey Posts: 16,761, Reputation: 5597
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    #12

    May 24, 2007, 05:50 PM
    . Have you check all under-dash and under-hood fuses with a test light or multimeter?
    . Have you cleaned the main ECM ground on the thermostat housing?
    kennydoesit's Avatar
    kennydoesit Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    May 25, 2007, 03:12 AM
    Yes, as a matter of fact.. I've done all both of those things. I guess it's worth another shot at doing them again though..

    Thanks.

    This thing is quite the enigma.

    On the 88 and 89 Models, one cannot even check the Igniter unless you have a lab scope or something; they recommend (Haynes) that you take it to the dealer.
    TxGreaseMonkey's Avatar
    TxGreaseMonkey Posts: 16,761, Reputation: 5597
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    #14

    May 25, 2007, 07:03 AM
    Next, I would perform the main relay harness tests below:

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post358044
    kennydoesit's Avatar
    kennydoesit Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    May 25, 2007, 09:54 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by txgreasemonkey
    Next, I would perform the main relay harness tests below:

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post358044
    I can hear the fuel pump coming on for the 2 secs and I hear it when the key is released after cranking the engine over. No spark and NO injector power (or pulse)
    hiperf402's Avatar
    hiperf402 Posts: 106, Reputation: -1
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    #16

    May 26, 2007, 08:40 PM
    kennydoesit, how can you get 5.76 volts from a ground strap to batt ground? This would only be caused by high resistance. Dumb question, but did you try cleaning ground and reconnecting. It's there for a reason. With it disconnected, half of the sensor won't work correctly so don't think that by some miracle it will fix itself. You got a hot injector wire probably due to backfeeding in the circuit. Honda computers don't usually fail, and if they do,t he car usually won't start at all.
    kennydoesit's Avatar
    kennydoesit Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Jun 2, 2007, 05:51 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by kennydoesit
    I found a CRANK ANGLE Senor test inside of a Haynes Manual. A resistance test of two sets of terminals (E & C and B & D or something of this order) yielded an acceptable resistance of 395 Ohms. However, another test of each individual terminal (E, C, B and D) to ground yielded NO CONTINUITY.

    The manual further suggests that if the CRK Angle sensor failed any of the tests that the entire distributor must be replaced.

    I installed a HEAD gasket before all of this happened and the owner was driving the car home; he never made it. The car test drove perfectly after I finished all the repairs (for atleast an hour), but, like I said, when he got in it.. it died in like 30 minutes after he paid me. I feel bad about the whole situation.

    I did, however, clean the engine compartment one last time before I handed it back to him. I was wondering if water might have eventually worked it's way into an already aging distributor; shorting out the CRK sensor?

    THE CRK sensor failed a GROUND continuity test (meaning there is an open somewhere inside of it).

    I guess that it's distributor time.

    ALSO, I still have NO power to the INJectors (DUal Point EFI).

    Any suggestions anyone? ANYONE.









    :D PROBLEM SOLVED:


    The Distributor tests that I conducted lead me to believe that the distributor was faulty and it WAS.

    Popped in a reman'd one from O'reilly's Auto Parts ($200) and the car fired right up; it's impossible to put the distrib (Hitachi -- internal coil pack, ig module, crk sensor, etc) in incorrectly on these particular Hondas (88 Civic LX).





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