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    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Aug 8, 2014, 11:30 AM
    1992 Civic: No spark, fuel, or CEL
    The car will crank but as stated; no spark, fuel, nor does the CEL come on at all.

    I performed the K test on the MAP sensor, I got 5 volts, so I can assume the ECU is good..

    I tested the Main Relay connector and it is getting power with the key ON.

    The Main Relay, battery, and wiring harness from the ECU to the engine bay are all brand new.

    Under-hood fuses have been tested.

    Heading back out to the garage to test a few grounds and the under-dash fuses now. Just kind of stumped at this point though!
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #2

    Aug 8, 2014, 11:33 AM
    You have a bad ECU if the CEL NEVER comes on... it should come on when you first turn the key on before starting it (as in before engaging the starter).
    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Aug 8, 2014, 11:34 AM
    Even if I am getting 5 volts at the MAP sensor connector?
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #4

    Aug 8, 2014, 11:37 AM
    When you turn the key past the accessory position to the run position... before pushing past that further to crank the starter the CEL should be on... as should all the other idiot lights. They don't go out until after its running.

    Having 5 volts on one wire of the ecu doesn't mean the rest of it is funtioning. Its only One signal of many it needs to run correctly.
    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Aug 8, 2014, 11:48 AM
    Ok, I guess I thought the K-Test was a catch-all type of test. But I get what you're saying. Is there another relay or fuse somewhere that could have failed causing the CEL not to come on even with a good ECU? And is there a way to 'bench test' the ECU?
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #6

    Aug 8, 2014, 12:37 PM
    Cel is wired directly to the ECU... it doesn't go through a relay. A 92 is ODB1, so a code reader is not going to work... I'm more familiar with the pre-91 civics and it's a totally different ECU and those were all ODB0 and codes are read differntly than yours.

    THere should be a sticky at the top of the forum for readig codes on yours... I'd have to find it and read it to even know how exactly to do it on yuors... but it should at least be able to give an indication its alive even if the CEL isn't coming on... you don't want to replace that or anything else until you have a good reason to do it.


    Just did a quick glance...I don't see anything on the ODB1 ECU's in the stickies....I have to go offline for a few hours, and I can look something up for you and post it when I get back if someone elses doesn't before then.
    TxGreaseMonkey's Avatar
    TxGreaseMonkey Posts: 16,756, Reputation: 5596
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    #7

    Aug 8, 2014, 12:39 PM
    Check the ACG(ALT)S fuse in the under dash fuse box--this is the crucial fuse to test. If it's missing, replace it. Ensure the CEL bulb is not burned out and that the main ECM ground on the thermostat is cleaned.


    Engine Won't Start, Check Engine Light (CEL) Doesn't Come On:

    1. Engine won't start.

    2. Turn ignition switch ON and observe CEL.

    3. If CEL never comes on, even for two seconds, after ignition is turned ON, observe Low Oil Pressure Light (LOPL).

    4. If LOPL doesn't come on, inspect Back-Up Light Fuse in under-hood fuse/relay box. If bad, replace; otherwise, repair open in YEL wire between Back-Up Light Fuse and gauge assembly.

    5. Turn ignition switch ON.

    6. Is CEL on? No, replace CEL bulb or repair open in GRN/ORN wire between ECM (A13) and gauge assembly. Yes, measure voltage between ground and terminals A23 and A24, individually.

    7. Is there less than 1.0 volt? No, repair an open in wire between ECM and main ECM ground that had more than 1.0 volt. Yes, substitute a known-good ECM and recheck.
    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Aug 9, 2014, 03:27 PM
    LOPL came on. I made sure the CEL bulb was good and tested. I also had less than 1 volt on each terminal (A23 & A24). The only options I have for swapping ECU's is to purchase a known good one.

    On another note, I tested another main relay I have and it also clicks the same as the other. I then tested Terminal 1, with the ground on a clean chassis bolt. It registered 3-5 mV. The same results when Terminal 5 tested, with the ground in the same location as mentioned. The key was in the II position for all testing.

    Again, all fuses tested good on each tab.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #9

    Aug 9, 2014, 06:48 PM
    How To Pull CEL, D4, SRS, and ABS Codes (with Code Lists) - Honda-Tech

    THis will show you how to pull and understand any codes you might have on that car.
    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Aug 9, 2014, 08:32 PM
    I've tried that but the CEL never comes on. Not when turning the key to II, nor when jumping the service connector.
    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Aug 24, 2014, 04:56 PM
    ***Update***

    I figured out previous issues, which were due to some mis-routed wires as well as a failed fuel pump.

    I now get fuel but no spark. Are there any specific tests I can do to test the distributor? Ignition coil? I will be borrowing a multi-meter again later to test if I have correct voltage when trying to start. Thanks for the help!
    TxGreaseMonkey's Avatar
    TxGreaseMonkey Posts: 16,756, Reputation: 5596
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    #12

    Aug 24, 2014, 05:59 PM
    Does the CEL come on for 2 seconds and then go out, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II)?
    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Aug 25, 2014, 07:00 AM
    Yes, it comes on for 2 seconds when key is turned to II, then goes off.
    TxGreaseMonkey's Avatar
    TxGreaseMonkey Posts: 16,756, Reputation: 5596
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    #14

    Aug 25, 2014, 10:05 AM
    Now, focus on the distributor. Replacing the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil normally solves the problem. Be sure to apply silicone heat transfer compound to the back of the new ICM, otherwise it won't last long. This is the ideal time to replace the rotor and distributor cap.
    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Aug 25, 2014, 04:47 PM
    Thanks TxGreaseMonkey! I found a testing walk-through for the ICM and coil, I'll preform those tonight and update accordingly. Earlier, when I opened up the distributor, I didn't notice and grime, burns, or really any signs of wear. Would you still recommend replacing the rotor and cap as a precautionary measure?
    TxGreaseMonkey's Avatar
    TxGreaseMonkey Posts: 16,756, Reputation: 5596
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    #16

    Aug 25, 2014, 05:08 PM
    There are no reliable tests for ICMs and coils. Therefore, I recommend replacing them every 125,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first. These components are notorious for failing on Hondas. Frequently, it is excess resistance in rotors and distributor caps that causes ICMs and coils to fail. I would replace all of these items, starting with the ICM and coil, with aftermarket parts.
    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Aug 30, 2014, 09:57 AM
    *Another Update*

    I replaced the cap, rotor, coil and ICM with new parts. Still will not start, no backfires or a even a grunt - just cranks. But... I am now getting spark at each cylinder, verified with a spark test light. Discovered a small fuel leak at the hose/rail connection due to a washer issue. Ran the pump to flush out any bad gas, clean gas came out. Re-installed fuel line and no leaks. I can hear the injectors working and the spark plugs smell of gas when pulled. Plugs are good by the way, not new but good.

    I currently have just a header for exhaust, after trying to start the engine I noticed smoke/exhaust gas coming out. I assume this means at least some of the fuel is being ignited..

    I checked mechanical timing and I am off by 2 degrees. I've gotten mixed opinions on whether this would cause a no start or just very poor performance. I will get the proper tools this weekend and re-adjust the timing.
    TxGreaseMonkey's Avatar
    TxGreaseMonkey Posts: 16,756, Reputation: 5596
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    #18

    Aug 30, 2014, 10:17 AM
    Ensure that your new ignition parts are installed in a genuine Honda distributor housing--all others are junk and unreliable. They can't get the internal sensors (CKP, TDC, and CYL) right on aftermarket distributor housings. Also, loosen the 3 distributor mounting bolts and rotate the distributor slightly counter-clockwise (CCW), in order to advance the timing. Victory is very close--don't give up!
    Honders888's Avatar
    Honders888 Posts: 19, Reputation: 1
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    #19

    Aug 30, 2014, 11:29 AM
    Thanks, It's getting frustrating! Haha I'm 90 percent sure the housing is OEM, I bought the engine/transmission from a reliable place and everything else on the motor looks to be Honda genuine. The cap, rotor, coil, and ICM I replace are Beck/Arnley.

    Should I rotate the distributor CCW before or after I fix the timing belt?
    TxGreaseMonkey's Avatar
    TxGreaseMonkey Posts: 16,756, Reputation: 5596
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    #20

    Aug 30, 2014, 11:41 AM
    Rotate the distributor CCW, before fixing the timing belt. Later, you can set the timing with a timing light. Right now, you just want to get it to start. My gut is that your timing is retarded too much.

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