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    csrichie's Avatar
    csrichie Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Dec 3, 2006, 11:21 PM
    Brain damage from chokes
    Me and my friend was playing around in school, practicing jujitsu, a form of ground submission where chokes and joint locks are used until someone taps.

    I been choked many times however, I taped when I felt that I'm going to pass out and had never been put unconscious.

    I have seen from some articles online about judo saying that it is safe to apply a choke if it is released before or right after the person is passed out.

    I was wondering if this statement is correct and if kind of repeated choke can cause brain damage.
    sovaira's Avatar
    sovaira Posts: 271, Reputation: 10
    Full Member

    Dec 4, 2006, 11:44 PM
    Well I think you should refrain fro mgetting yourself hit at skull
    So be careful next time
    Well as far as choke is concerned ,u might not have got it ,yet
    Because the signs aren't there eas you have quited but better if you doubt you have better go for a complete CT scan
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
    Uber Member

    Dec 5, 2006, 05:14 AM
    You pass out because your brain is no longer getting enough oxygen to keep your whole body functioning.
    As a result parts of your brain that are non essential shut down, like the parts that give you consciousness.
    This is so the other parts of the brain that concentrate on keeping the heart beating and breathing and regulating other systems can keep working with the little oxygen that is left.

    If the choke is held for much longer after passing out, then your brain will not be getting enough oxygen for these vital functions, which then leads quickly to cell death, and this is when the brain can be damaged.

    I think that as long as the choke is pulled off when the victim passes out, it shouldn't cause any permanent injury.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,254, Reputation: 5642

    Dec 5, 2006, 01:54 PM
    Aha, each answer is right in its own way. What is happening is exactly what Capuchin said and that your brain is not getting enough Oxygen. This is called hypoxia and is VERY dangerous. There have been television reports done as to how this can become addictive and deadly.

    The addiction is a supposed "high" you get right before passing out.

    The person should NEVER be allowed to get to the point of passing out. Yes, it is possible that repeating this could cause brain damage, or even death.
    csrichie's Avatar
    csrichie Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Dec 7, 2006, 09:45 PM
    But if every time u submitt and the choke was released before u are passed out, then could that still cause brain damage when this kind of activity is repeated?

    I heard that the brain has about 2-3 minutes of oxygen reserve and that chokes does not cause brain damage until 5 seconds after passing out. Is this correct?
    AKaeTrue's Avatar
    AKaeTrue Posts: 1,599, Reputation: 272
    Ultra Member

    Dec 7, 2006, 10:30 PM
    It's like J_9 said...
    The reason why this could cause brain damage and possibly death is because there is more to it than simply a lack of oxygen to the brain. Within your neck area there are certain arteries that regulate blood pressure and nerves that send messages to your heart to beat. Choking accidents can occur unexpectedly when pressure is applied to these arteries and nerves. The person being chocked will be unaware of the danger and not tap out before losing consciousness leading to a form of cardiac arrest called Asystole which is extremely hard to treat. Even highly trained professionals succumb by this process and it should never be a thing to play around with.
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135

    Dec 9, 2006, 08:16 PM
    Let me add just a bit of a cautionary note here based on my observation of human nature in such things. First, you simply can't trust everyone to release a choke hold immediately when you begin to pass out even if you do tap out. I have seen this done repeatedly in certain Vale Todo competitions by one of the Gracie brothers. The fellow taps out and he continues the choke anyway for about fifteen seconds. I also witnessed a about between a karate black-belt and a shoot fighter--grappler. The karate guy sent him to the canvas twice by sidestepping the grappler's lunge and delivering a downward elbow strike to the back of the neck. The grappler went to the canvas writhing in pain but was allowed to recover. Whether this was a prearranged deal or the karate guy was convinced that he wouldn't get up, I don't know. Anyhow, during the second round the karate guy's leg was mangled when the grappler finally managed to make contact. He was saved by the bell. But instead of wisely quitting he limped into the ring to continue. That's when he got caught in a choke hold.

    And this is the point. Even though he tapped out--the infuriated grappler, whose neck was probably damaged, didn't let him go. He kept the hold until the guy went limp and continued for another thirty or so seconds. As the grappler was being interviewed the karate guy was still on the floor on his back unconscious. A stretcher was brought in and he was carted away.

    In short, If I were you I wouldn't be so trusting of letting others get me in choke holds.
    People are sometimes unpredictable. Here are some interesting articles on the subject of choke holds.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,254, Reputation: 5642

    Dec 9, 2006, 10:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by csrichie
    but if everytime u submitt and the choke was released before u are passed out, then could that still cause brain damage when this kind of activity is repeated?

    i heard that the brain has about 2-3 minutes of oxygen reserve and that chokes does not cause brain damage until 5 seconds after passing out. is this correct?
    As the others have said, you cannot guarantee that the person is going to release. Repeating this activity is repeatingly depriving your brain of O2.

    The brain does have 2 -3 minutes of O2, but this is in an emergency situation ONLY. This does not necessarily mean that the person will definitely recover fully.
    sovaira's Avatar
    sovaira Posts: 271, Reputation: 10
    Full Member

    Dec 23, 2006, 01:00 AM
    What are you doing these days
    Did you go for check up or not ?
    Or just readaing wt people have to say?

    Tell me
    Thomas1970's Avatar
    Thomas1970 Posts: 856, Reputation: 131
    Senior Member

    Dec 23, 2006, 02:22 AM
    I agree with J_9. I used to be a certified lifeguard, and was taught that brain damage typically set in around three minutes. After eight, unless immersed in icy water, the person would be considered brain dead.
    Though you have to consider, that in the case of drowning, oxygenated blood is still freely circulating to the brain for a time. This is largely impaired in most choke holds. Even if a person is released immediately, they will likely have no memory of being choked upon awakening -- a sign that the brain has suspended nearly all non-critical functions. People who are uncoscious for more extended periods are often exceedingly violent upon awakening, the body's natural momentary reaction to the undetermined threat. Not everyone wakes up groggy and inquisitive.
    Add to that the fact that a forearm, or "guillotine" choke -- fairly common -- if improperly applied, can crush the trachea quite easily, which has the relative consistency of "aluminum foil." It can often take only a little more than a few pounds of pressure.
    A blow to the back of the neck should never be applied in tournament combat, or any for that matter. That is extraordinarily dangerous, and also quite potentially lethal.
    Either way, it's best not to mess around with chokes of any sort. They should only ever be commitedly applied in life threatening situations, and even then, as a greatly latter resort.
    Hew's Avatar
    Hew Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Apr 6, 2007, 08:29 PM
    Assuming you are referring to a choke that applies pressure to the sides of the neck rather than crushing the windpipe these are my comments. Choke submission / lateral neck restraint was covered during a seminar I took with a guy that trains police and military. I was told that this hold produces unconsciousness by overstimulating the vagus nerve not by cutting off oxygen to the brain. Sounds almost like a chinese medicine type theory. Not cutting off oxygen sounds promising with regards to potential brain damage.
    However, this technique sometimes produces a poorly understood, fatal effect.
    Statistically black and latinos are more succeptable. Since this data comes from police use, I can't be sure if it is biased by racial profiling by law enforcement.
    If this technique is done properly, using the hard bone of the forearm, or even better a stick, it is painful enough to cause a tapout before unconsciousness. For training purposes, it would be wise to tap before you pass out to avoid any risk. Once that choke is on, you have one shot if you're quick to counter, if not, may as well tap.
    whittdiane60's Avatar
    whittdiane60 Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    May 29, 2010, 10:29 AM
    My daughter is married to a Marine and he put her in a military choke hold. Ever since that she has had psychotic :mad:behaviors and is acting different. She was fine before and she is bipolar but when he put her in the choke hold, she passed out. She called the police but she had not been right since. The doctor and I think the choke hold could have caused brain damage to her. I think she needs an MRI or something to find out if she has brain damage. This makes me very angry and if this was caused by him putting her in a choke hold then we are going to press charges against him. I hope you can understand the anger her father and I have against her husband. He is trying to make it look like she has gone crazy but with brain damage it can affect the way you do things. Some of you might not believe in brain damage, I do. My daughter has not been the same since.
    Theprodigy777's Avatar
    Theprodigy777 Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
    New Member

    Apr 17, 2012, 09:43 PM
    There are two different kinds of chokes that can result in unconsciousness. With an air choke, you can still maintain circulation to the brain. A blood choke completely cuts off circulation and therefore there is absolutely no oxygen getting to the brain. Anytime the brain becomes deprived of oxygen resulting in unconsciousness, there is a chance that brain damage could result. Depending on where the damage occurs, there may be different signs and symptoms experienced by the individual. And if your so worried about brain damage you should either learn how to defend the choke or don't screw around in the first place.

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