[d-woo]

My question is just slightly different than briang30's so forgive me for starting a new post.

We recently moved into a 25 year old home in August of last year.

The master bathroom stand-alone shower will get warm, but not hot. Also it takes about 7 minutes for it to get to the "warm" mark. This has been the case the entire time (even in the summer) we've been here.

The master bathtub, which is separate from the shower, will get hot and does so in about 4 minutes.

Layout
The master is on the opposite end of the house from the water heater. The upstairs tub and shower (also separate) are located in the center of the house. These get hot, no problem.

What I've Done Thus Far
The master shower has one control that you pull out and turn counter-clockwise for hot (from 12 o'clock toward 9 o'clock)

a. I initially thought that the knob was preventing a true "100% hot" position, so I removed the knob and would just control the water by pulling out and turning. This allowed me a full range of 360 degrees. Still, the water only got warm.

b. Then, I thought that perhaps I had a diverter valve issue, so I changed it out (Moen model #1200) last night, still no hot water, only warm. Having not replaced the outside knob I still can turn the handle 360 degrees, but now at 180 degree increments, the water pressure drops off to a trickle, even after allowing the water to run for about 10 minutes to remove all of the "air" after turning off the main water line to do the replacement.

Your thoughts and recommendations are greatly appreciated.

[labman]

You sort of have a hole for hot water to come out, and another one for the cold. When you turn the handle, a hole in a sleeve varies how much it lines up with the hot and cold. Check the hole the hot comes out. Work back from it towards the hot water supply line. See if you can find any obstruction, mineral build up or something. Also see if the cold can leak past the sleeve giving excess cold water.

[speedball1]

Let's nail down and localize the problem. Faulty piping, mineral build up or bad valve? Your Moen valve should have screwdriver stops on each side of the valve
. If not you should have hot and cold shut off valves. Shut off the supplies to the valve and remove the cartridge. Check the inlet ports for any trash.
Now, with the valve still open, turn on the hot water and let it run. If no hot water in a minute or so then we have a pipe problem.

My company uses nothing but Moen valves in their new construction so I know their product inside and out.

You wrote; "I initally thought that the knob was preventing a true "100% hot" position, so I removed the knob and would just control the water by pulling out and turning. This allowed me a full range of 360 degrees. Still, the water only got warm."

You have just defeated the chrome tube stop that Moen has to prevent turning the cartridge stem 360 degrees. If you reverse the stem, ( turn it past 180 degrees) you also reverse the flow so hot water comes out the cold side and cold water comes out the hot side. The stem has a red dot or is notched on the side that should look up. Turning it 360 degrees isn't going to increase anything. Just thought I'd throw that in for free. Let me know what you find. Cheers, Tom

[d-woo]

Thanks Labman and speedball1:

speedball1
Well, I guess that I have a pipe problem, because the new valve is acting exactly as the one that I replaced it with... correct?

Yeah, I understand about overriding the 360 degree stop. I was just desperate to find out how hot I could get the water. A little debugging I guess.

What types of pipe problems might I be looking at?

Labman
It would be difficult for me to trace back anything beyond the tile. I only had that small 4 inches to work with (that protruded beyond the tile).

Do you recommend me getting a plumber to trace the line from the valve?

Thanks again! :)

[labman]

''It would be difficult for me to trace back anything beyond the tile. I only had that small 4 inches to work with (that protruded beyond the tile).

Do you recommend me getting a plumber to trace the line from the valve?''

Do you get good hot water flow with the valve removed? If you have to, put a piece of rubber hose over the pipe to run the water to to the shower, and turn the water on. If the flow is weak, likely the pipe is blocked somewhere. Poke in the pipe with a screwdriver or even a drill. Blockage could be in the elbow in the wall there, or where the shower tees off the other line. What is on the other side of the tiled wall? Repairing painted drywall is easier than a tiled wall. Once the wall is open, depending on what kind of pipe and how brave you are, you may be able to break the joint and clean out the blockage or replace the pipe. Tom and I will be here to help.

If a pipe in the wall is limed up, a plumber will have to rip up the wall too.

By the way Tom, my one bathroom facuet got hard to work. I took it apart and cleaned it up. I smeared things with a silicone grease and put everything back together. Hot and cold were reversed. Took it apart again and turned the tube around.

[d-woo]

Hi Labman,

Do you get good hot water flow with the valve removed? If you have to, put a piece of rubber hose over the pipe to run the water to to the shower, and turn the water on. If the flow is weak, likely the pipe is blocked somewhere.

I'm a touch confused about your instructions to remove the valve.

What I changed out was the cartridge/diverter valve. I had to shut off water to the house in order to do that.

If I remove the diverter valve, then I have no control of water flow and it will just shoot out horizontally, correct?

I have a diagram of what I believe the orientation to be.

I will attempt to attach images in this forum below.





If you do not see them above, then please go here.

[speedball1]

Turn off the water, remove the cartridge and then turn the water back on for a minute. Yes, the water, hopefully, will shoot out in a full stream. What we are asking you to do is flush out the valves supply lines. I'm assuming you've already checked the inlet ports on the 1200 cartridge to see if they were blocked by crud. Let us know how you make out. Great drawing! My company uses Moen valves in all their new construction. I have installed and worked on Moen valves for years. Regards Tom

[d-woo]

Okay, thanks!. now I understand.

I will do this tonight.

I will keep you posted.

By the way, and I thought it peculiar, the old cartridge that I removed had mico-screens in the ports.

The new one that I recently installed had no screens and was fully open.

Is this the conventional design now (no screens)?

[d-woo]

Great News,

After changing the cartridge I still had warm water (not hot) in the shower.

I did the following:

1. Flushed my water heater per speedball1's instructions here

2. Turned off water supply to house

3. Removed new cartridge in shower

4. Turned on water supply to house for 5 minutes - flushing all debris through the shower valve

5. Turned off water supply to house

6. Re-installed cartridge

7. Removed shower head

8. Turned on water to house.

9. Turned on shower and flushed water through shower for 2 minutes

10. Reinstalled shower head.

I now have increased water pressure and hot water within 40 seconds. Before it took about 6 minutes to get "warm" water in the shower.

Apparently there was partial blockage in the hot water line upstream of the cartridge/valve.

Thanks SpeedBall1!! :)


Key Pointer
Be sure to press replacement cartridge all the way in so that you get full flow through the side ports.

[kelly500]

[QUOTE=d-woo]Great News,

After changing the cartridge I still had warm water (not hot) in the shower.

I did the following:

1. Flushed my water heater per speedball1's instructions here

2. Turned off water supply to house

3. Removed new cartridge in shower

4. Turned on water supply to house for 5 minutes - flushing all debris through the shower valve...

QUOTE]


Hey there,

Wanted to see if you had any input on this situation. I followed all of your advice and the Hot doesn't flow at all, even though the hot at the sink 4 feet away is fine. I am currently at step 4. This is in our guest bath that hasn't been used in 3 years at all.

Question, on the screw type valves on either side there appears to be a way to unscrew it, is this my next step or should I call in a professional? Any other tips or tricks to unclog the line?

Thanks,

Kevin