Ill try to keep this a short as possible.

7 months ago I came home from work to a note from my wife. Her dad and her had concocted a plan for him to drive here and take her and our kids to their house out of state.

I called the police, nothing they could do. I called family services and was told "a custodial parent has the right to take the kids wherever. Get a lawyer"

The kids are finishing up school next week and I want to bring them back here, but Im getting a lot of backlash from her. Stuff like "well Ill have to check their schedules" (shedules for kids under 8? ) and "I dont know about that, we'll see."

Our basic marital problem is where we live. She hates it here and wants to live close to her parents (what a fantastic reason to break up a marriage :rolleyes: )

Anyway, what rights do I have to go get my kids? She doesn't even work from crying out loud. I send her money for stuff she needs. Yet she wants to tell me where we should live, but that's a completely different story.

Neither of us has been to a lawyer as I assumed eventually things would be resolved.

Well apparently there aren't fixing themselves. If you cared enough about your kids it shouldn't take you this long to fight for them. My parents went through the same thing and my father sounded exactly like you. If you love them at all you would get a lawyer and quit being such a wimp before you lose more valuable time with your chilren.

Nice answer a-hole. Are you my wife?

Next please.

Get a Lawyer and find out what your rights are.
As father of those children you still have rights.

I can see why she left you with that attitude, I was just giving advice because I have been there you jerk. Grow up!

I can see why she left you with that attitude, I was just giving advice because I have been there you jerk. Grow up!

My only attitude is towards you and your "if you cared for you kids" comment jerk.

Of course I care for them. It's a complicated situation and your "quite being a wimp" answer is no solution.

Well if someone told you to get a lawyer right off the bat get a lawyer. It is as simple as that

I'm not a lawyer so this is just my advice and thoughts... take it for what it's worth.

I've was very close to a divorce several years ago... fortunately we got some counseling, worked through our problems and are now both happier than ever. Counseling should be something to consider for both of you as well if you want to restore your marriage.

She has the right to take the kids anywhere as long as she is taking care of them. If you want to see your kids then drive out to see them. You might want to do this during the week while they are still in school so you know they'll be home. She cannot keep you from seeing your children no matter where she is. She can refuse to bring them to you but she can't refuse you access to them. If they are home and she refuses to let you see them don't argue/fight with her, just call the local police right there... This is NOT the best thing for the kids but it will tell her that you mean business about seeing your kids. The last thing you need in a situation like this is to get arrested for domestic violence... especially in another state.

If you don't want a divorce then it sounds like your way out of this may be to move closer to her parents. (Assuming you can find work there) My wife is very close to her mother and distance can be rough even though we only live an hour away from her.

If you want to get a divorce then hire an attorney and freeze your assets. Do not give her any money without getting a signed receipt from her. (My boss learned this one the hard way) You're kids are the most importing thing and you still need to take care of them. A signed receipt for anything that you give her will show that they are receiving money. I may be wrong (again, I'm not a lawyer) but I don't think you're under any financial obligation to her... just your kids. You have adequate food/clothing and shelter for her and your children where you are living... she's just choosing not to accept it.

I firmly believe that marriages should last a lifetime... sadly many don't. I sincerely hope that you two can work through your problems and fix whatever is wrong in your relationship. For the sake of both you and your children.

If I'm wrong about something I've said here someone please let me know.

Good Luck.

Since you start uber-important topic like "potty training a ferrett" and "korn cds" and "comedy movies" Id rather take advice from someone else.

Yeah franksandbeans I am 20 years old so what I was giving you advice not from a parents point of view I was giving it from the kids point of view.

I'm not a lawyer so this is just my advice and thoughts....take it for what it's worth.

I've was very close to a divorce several years ago...fortunately we got some counseling, worked through our problems and are now both happier than ever. Counseling should be something to consider for both of you as well if you want to restore your marriage.

She has the right to take the kids anywhere as long as she is taking care of them. If you want to see your kids then drive out to see them. You might want to do this during the week while they are still in school so you know they'll be home. She cannot keep you from seeing your children no matter where she is. She can refuse to bring them to you but she can't refuse you access to them. If they are home and she refuses to let you see them don't argue/fight with her, just call the local police right there....This is NOT the best thing for the kids but it will tell her that you mean business about seeing your kids. The last thing you need in a situation like this is to get arrested for domestic violence....especially in another state.

If you don't want a divorce then it sounds like your way out of this may be to move closer to her parents. (Assuming you can find work there) My wife is very close to her mother and distance can be rough even though we only live an hour away from her.

If you want to get a divorce then hire an attorney and freeze your assets. Do not give her any money without getting a signed receipt from her. (My boss learned this one the hard way) You're kids are the most importing thing and you still need to take care of them. A signed receipt for anything that you give her will show that they are receiving money. I may be wrong (again, I'm not a lawyer) but I don't think you're under any financial obligation to her....just your kids. You have adequate food/clothing and shelter for her and your children where you are living....she's just choosing not to accept it.

I firmly believe that marriages should last a lifetime...sadly many don't. I sincerely hope that you two can work through your problems and fix whatever is wrong in your relationship. For the sake of both you and your children.

If I'm wrong about something I've said here someone please let me know.

Good Luck.

Thanks for the advice, I do appreciate it.

Thing is I Don't want to get divorced, and if I run to an attorney right off the bat like others suggest (not talking about you), what does that look like to her? That's what some people can't seem to understand.

We've been through some rough spots before, and as I said they resolved themselves because she still claims she loves me. But this time, I just don't know.

Yeah franksandbeans I am 20 years old so what I was giving you advice not from a parents point of view I was giving it from the kids point of view.

Look, I wasn't trying to jump down your throat. Its just complicated situation and its not as easy as "do this and its fixed" you know?

Okay I am not trying to be mean here but in one of your comments you said she wanted to be closer to her family. Now I do not know what position financially/career options. But what is keeping you from moving to where she is?

Okay I am not trying to be mean here but in one of your comments you said she wanted to be closer to her family. Now I do not know what position financially/career options. But what is keeping you from moving to where she is?

Well that's where it gets complicated. I have NO problem moving somewhere, anywhere else.
However, I don't have a college degree, I have virtually no marketable skill set. I worked at an autoparts manufacturing plant that recently closed. I made good money there but cannot make even half that anywhere else. Also, we HAVE to have very good benefits. We have 2 kids with health issues so taking some lamer job isn't going to cut it.

Im still essentially drawing a paycheck from my old job, and will for 2yrs, with benefits. In that time I have to go back to school and get a degree of some kind. The benefits from my old job will pay for schooling too, but I can't just move away and say "i want to go to this school" in a different state.

However, my wife thinks since Im not working anymore its just as easy as picking up and moving wherever. Like I said, she doesn't work, hasn't worked in 10+yrs. I realize a stay-at-home mom is important, but I do not feel in her position, not contributing financially, she really has any right to say where we live.

She even uses the excuse "why are you are so worried about getting a good paying job?" Hello? We have 4 kids, making minimum wage isn't going to cut it.

Anyway, like it said, things are very complicated.

Edit - just want to follow up on this sentence: "I realize a stay-at-home mom is important, but I do not feel in her position, not contributing financially, she really has any right to say where we live"

She obviously should have a right to opinion on where we live. BUT, I don't feel she has any right to tell me "move here and get a job to support us." She has made no effort herself to work, and quite frankly I doubt she will until our younger kids are in school.

Okay I understand the school issue, but have you at least asked the people who control your benefits if they would still pay for you in another state. And since you are in another state have you asked your wife or her family to maybe help relocate you. It is kind of hard for you to do it all by yourself but if you have people in the other state that can help you find a non minimum wage job. Plus if the kids are in school have you mentioned to her a part time job? I don't know the rules in many states but you can be a substitute teacher at the school your kids go to if she wants to be close. But there are sooo many different jobs that would hire part time. Now what do her parents think of all this?

Now what do her parents think of all this?

Her parents hate my guts and wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire.

As far as the paid schooling goes, Im not 100% sure. I don't think I can just go anywhere I want to. They have programs set up with in-state schools, but as far as paying for something out of state, I don't think so but I can't say for 100% fact.

However, where she currently is now, she claims she doesn't want to live there! And there are no colleges within reasonable distance anyway.

So where does she want to live? Your guess is as good as mine. Ive asked and the answer is "I dont know, anywhere." See, she doesn't look to the future AT ALL, its all about the here and right now. I guess at least Im trying to be responsible. :rolleyes:

As far as the paid schooling goes, Im not 100% sure. I dont think I can just go anywhere I want to. They have programs set up with in-state schools, but as far as paying for something out of state, I dont think so but I can't say for 100% fact.
Several years ago Chrysler closed a plant near where I live and they did the same thing for all their workers. Most of it was with tech schools in the area. However there are always student loans, grants, etc... if you want to go somewhere else. You are investing in not only your future but your kids as well. Cheesy as it sounds, it's true.

Several years ago Chrysler closed a plant near where I live and they did the same thing for all their workers. Most of it was with tech schools in the area. However there are always student loans, grants, etc... if you want to go somewhere else. You are investing in not only your future but your kids as well. Cheesy as it sounds, it's true.

That's basically the exact situation Im in. It was a GM parts supplier. They pulled all the work, sent it elsewhere, and closed us down.

I realize people lose their jobs all the time. Im not the first and won't be the last to find myself in this kind of situation. But when you are in it, it definitely is hard to just pick up and go somewhere with no degree, essentially no skill or any kind, and HOPE you can get a semi-decent job.

And the position my wife puts me in makes it even harder if you ask me. Ive been the sole provider for our family for 10+ years. But she wants me to just pack up and go with absolutely no plan at all.

Thats basically the exact situation Im in. It was a GM parts supplier. They pulled all the work, sent it elsewhere, and closed us down.

Delphi?

Not trying to pry... I live near the Oak Creek plant that was shut down.

Delphi?

Not trying to pry...I live near the Oak Creek plant that was shut down.

Guide

Ill try to keep this a short as possible.

7 months ago I came home from work to a note from my wife. Her dad and her had concocted a plan for him to drive here and take her and our kids to their house out of state.

I called the police, nothing they could do. I called family services and was told "a custodial parent has the right to take the kids wherever. Get a lawyer"

The kids are finishing up school next week and I want to bring them back here, but Im getting alot of backlash from her. Stuff like "well Ill have to check their schedules" (shedules for kids under 8??) and "I dont know about that, we'll see."

Our basic marital problem is where we live. She hates it here and wants to live close to her parents (what a fantastic reason to break up a marriage :rolleyes: )

Anyway, what rights do I have to go get my kids? She doesnt even work from crying out loud. I send her money for stuff she needs. Yet she wants to tell me where we should live, but thats a completely different story.

Neither of us has been to a lawyer as I assumed eventually things would be resolved.
Beat her to the punch by filing for divorce.A good attorney will go for "abandonment"and demand immediate relief from the local court.But ,its verrrry important you file ASAP! Most states require the divorce to be filed wherever the children reside.Do this within 6 months and you might still get away with residency on your side.
Divorce is an ugly all out war.She fired the first volley when she left you.Now , for the sake of your kids, you must fight back hard.Charge her with mental cruelty,also.A good attorney will know what to go for.Just tell them to hit hard ,and let them handle it.

You need to consult with a lawyer just to know what you can and can't do. Find one that you can consult for free on the first visit. How long have you been married?

Dads far too often forget on major thing:they are still your children ,too.Most states have moved away from the "Tender years" which gave most rights to the mother.Your best bet is to immediately (that means today)go find you a mediator(most attorneys can serve as a mediator),and send her a certified letter requesting mediation.then ,after you send the letter, consult your attorney.She'll likely refuse to mediate,which then gives you the freedom to waltz into court with documentation that you tried to settle this amicably ,but =she refused.You then allow your attorney to go for the jugular.this should save you a lot of money,as the judge in many cases will order her to attend mediation and may even make her pay for it.Think smart,play hard,and ignore the watershed tears that are coming (hers and yours)Remember,the relationship is over.Now its time to fight for your kids.Theyre depending on you to be rational.

Remember,the relationship is over.
Sorry to disagree. This couple has problems but haven't tried to figure it out and a marriage counselor should be the next step not a lawyer as there are to many facts not being presented to make a call that drastic. There is however impulsive behavior, and no communications on both side. No where has the OP said he wants a divorce, but does need legal advice. He also needs a lot of personal help to put this relationship back together. A divorce is easy. Marriage is not. I also know there is two sides to this story, and sorry not convinced your completely the good guy. Just my honest opinion.

I respect your view,but ,in all honesty,times have changed.The minute she walked out the door,she abandoned the relationship.A good attorney will hit hard for the dad in the name of "abandonment "as well as mental cruelty ,due to the stress placed upon the children due to the mother's erratic actions.A good attorney will tell you to strike now;waiting only tips the scales of justice in her behavior.To the dad,the relationship is kaput.Would you even want her back now?File the paperwork.don't dlay!

When one party walks out,the relationship is over.The longer you wait to file paperwork hurts your chances for an amicable rsolution.Hire an attorney who won't give an ounce of ground.If she hasn't filed any papers,you have an advantage;USE IT!! My dad once taught me,"in life, there are no fair fights!"

Listen, if we go by your end of the story, she should not have taken kids out of state that I though was parental abduction.

Contact your local police and the town they are in now.

I could only imagine what a pleasure you were to live with the way you throw out insults. If you wanted to talk to an expert you would have shelled out a few bucks for a good attorney. Which I believe is your next step anyway.

she abandoned the relationship
Until we know exactly why she left it is an assumption, I can tell you people don't just up and leave with 4 kids and go home, without very good reason. Despite what has been presented. Come on times haven't changed that much. And what lawyer works for free??

Her parents hate my guts and wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire.

I'm sure there's a story with more than one side to it behind this state of affairs.


As far as the paid schooling goes, Im not 100% sure. I don't think I can just go anywhere I want to. They have programs set up with in-state schools, but as far as paying for something out of state, I don't think so but I can't say for 100% fact.
You haven't said whether you are enrolled in the paid schooling that's available where you live now. If you are, it supports your claim to be the "responsible" one. If not, it calls that into question. If another job at your current level of skill and training isn't a realistic prospect (no matter where you live), then you can't afford to waste a day waiting to start retraining. If you and your wife can agree on this, then the decision of where to live while doing it can be made on a practical basis (what's available where), instead of having it become an emotional power struggle.


However, where she currently is now, she claims she doesn't want to live there! And there are no colleges within reasonable distance anyway. So where does she want to live? Your guess is as good as mine. Ive asked and the answer is "I dont know, anywhere." See, she doesn't look to the future AT ALL, its all about the here and right now. I guess at least Im trying to be responsible. :rolleyes:
I thought she wanted to live close to her parents. Is that not where she is?

It sounds like you and your wife are more concerned with power and control in your relationship than with finding a mutually agreeable solution to your very real problems of livelihood and financial security. Counselling might help if you're both willing to try.

Her parents have hated me since day 1. Why? IDK. I really don't. In 13yrs we've been together I bet her mom and I haven't spoken 50 words between us and not too many more than that to her dad. Every argument we ever get in she jumps right on the phone to call mommy and daddy and tell them all about it. Apparently they are naïve enough to believe its all my fault. On 2 separate occasions Ive went to her dad and said "look, we need to get some of these issues resolved" and nothing ever came of it.

Look, I have done things in my marriange and said things I wish I could take back. Everyone has. I don't claim to be the worlds greatest husband. But its not for lack of trying so show her in every way I can that I love her. Whenever we fight I am ALWAYS the one to try to resolve the issue. She is very bad at holding a grudge. Im the kind of guy that an hour after a fight Im over it. But she like to let it stew and would for days if I didn't make some effort to patch it up. Arguments are always fun. I get stuff thrown in my face that happened 10 years ago.

I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I don't run around with the guys, Ive never been physically abusive to her or the kids. Im a fairly decent guy who always puts her first. So if you all want to judge me based on the comment I made to a 20yr old kid that basically said I didn't love my kids then go right ahead.

Its funny (not really), I was here to ask for some advice, maybe someone has been through a similar thing, and Im basically put on trial by you all. "Surely there must be some reason she left." Ya, there is. She's a selfish, immature 33yr old woman who's never had to shoulder any responsibility (other than raising kids, but hey, I do that too PLUS provide 100% financially), puts herself #1, the kids #2, her parents #3, and me somewhere under that, who gets God knows what kind of comfort living with her parents.

I mean, what does it tell you about her that she says she/we would/could be happy living somewhere, anywhere else than were we currently do? Does that sound like a woman that's running from some horrible living conditions? She has told me on numerous occasions "you dont even consider my happiness" in relation to WHERE WE LIVE. Hello! Until late January I WAS THE ONLY ONE WORKING, and it was a job you just can't walk away from. Ive told her time after time after time if I were to be transferred we would be gone ASAP. But in her mind we are here because this is were I grew up and my parents live here which is just total BS. I see my parents MAYBE once every 6 weeks. Ill go ANYWHERE that I can get a job and provide for my family. If you want to know the truth of the matter, Ive told her a few times "can your dad get me a job where he works?" What does that say about my willingness to live anywhere? Yet to her happiness is in her parents basement.

I still love this woman. I Don't want to break my family up. She claims she still loves me but at this point that getting hard to believe. We went through counseling several years ago and it worked for the 6mo or so that we went. But if you ask her now that counselor we saw was "full of shiz, she didnt agree with what he said, etc." 2 weeks before she left I told her "YOU pick a councellor, we need help."


If you want to know the truth, there has been serious pattern of this type of behavior. Way, way way back, when we only had 1 kid and things were a lot simpler, we lived in the same town he parents lived in, that's where we met. At the time she had had a falling out with her parents and hadn't spoken to them in several months. We (together,not just me) had decided to move to get away from them. 2 days before we were to leave Im not sure what happened but somehow she ended up at her parents house, talked to her dad ALLLLLL day long, came home and guess what? "Im not leaving!"

Finally a few years later we ended up where we currently live. (I say we because IMO this is still her home). She would go back to her parents every summer for a few weeks to visit, and they certainly never made ANY attempt to come visit us. Basically she went on vacation while I stayed here and worked, usually worked a TON of overtime to make some extra cash. For the first IDK how many years that she went there, EVERY SINGLE TIME it was a struggle and a fight and begging and pleading to get her to come back. She just has some kind of psychological crutch wanting to live with or be around her parents. I remember on one occasion she called me 2hrs before her plane was to take off and said "Im not coming." But she eventually made it to the airport on time.

Also of note, here is a woman that is living in her parents basement with our kids, but cannot stand her mom. I mean, yes, she loves her mom, but her mom is the witchiest, rudest, nastiest woman Ive ever known. Her mom NEVER EVER EVER has anything nice to say to her own daughters, its either my wife's clothes or hair or makeup or something. Her mom undermines her authority with our kids, she cuts her down as a mother, she just generally never has a kind or supportive word. Im not exaggerating here either. I hear these stories on almost a daily basis. I really cannot fathom how she can live in that environment. She gets along with her dad, but from what she's told me growing up she was physically abused by him, she was kicked out of the house several times. It just wasn't a good situation. Yet now, you'd think she had the most wonderful relationship with her parents growing up. Its nuts.


Im not begging for anyone's sympathy here. Sure, you are only seeing 1 side of the story, Im sure my wife would paint a totally different story of me. Im not perfect but who is? I have always, always, always put my wife #1. That's how I was brought up. My wife to me is even more important than my kids. A wife is an extension of the husband. Kids obviously are very, very important, but IMO your spouse is THE most important person in you life. We have very different upbringings. I was the youngest of 5 kids. She is an only child. I grew up in a very strict, religious house. She had never been to church until I took her the first time when she was almost 20. We have severe differences of opinion on how marriage should be, and to be quite honest its only intensified over the last few years. IMO the internet has been a HUGE negative influence on our life. She visits a lot of "womens/mothering forums" and Ive seen what goes on there. Its nothing but stay at home moms ragging on their husbands. Ive seen some of the things she's said about me and I was just floored. I NEVER EVER EVER would say things like she said. She claims it was her way to "vent." IMO she's too easily influenced by everyone but me.

Didn't mean to write a book here. In fact the post was short initially, but I edited a few times. Just wanted to get some of the backstory in there. Truthfully, if this were someone else in this situation, Id probably say "that guy is a chump, a sucker, and should have dropped that woman an LONG time ago." But how do you do that when you still love someone? At this point, yes, I can acknowledge that her behavior is likely never going to change. We could live in Tinbucktu and probably still have the same issues.

You know, we moved to the frozen tundra of Ohio almost 10 years ago (with the intent to be here 5) we moved away from my entire family, whom I am very close with. I am a southern girl and love warm weather. Let me tell you, when the first snow comes until the last flake has fallen - I turn into the most awful witch. I hate Ohio - it's not home to me - I don't like the snow, I don't like the cold, etc. This kind of attitude trickles into everything else and causes problems. Have I wanted to end my marriage because of geography? No. But, when you are in a constant bad mood over something that you don't feel like you have control over - it will affect other things.

Now, I got the impression from your posts that you, deep down, don't respect your wife. The fact that you said that she doesn't work, she doesn't contribute, she doesn't get a say in where we live. That tells me that you don't value what she does do for the family.

She may have moved into the basement - and hasn't filed for divorce yet, because she wants you to make the grand gesture and come and get her. Make the move.
By not coming or entertaining moving - especially since you were laid off (and I get your reasons for it - she doesn't) you are telling her that money or something is more important. There is nothing holding you there now - she wants you to come to her. Why else would she be dancing around not sending the kids. GO TO HER. Nothing else is more important than your family. You will make it work.

Now, I got the impression from your posts that you, deep down, don't respect your wife. The fact that you said that she doesn't work, she doesn't contribute, she doesn't get a say in where we live. That tells me that you don't value what she does do for the family.



You need to re-read my post. I said "she doesnt contribute FINANCIALLY" so you tell me, you think she has the right to tell me "we are moving here and you will get a job here to support us here"?

And as far at the "just go get her" comment, she told me point blank tonight she isn't coming back ever.

Anyway, just let this thread die. At this point I guess a lawyer is my only option :(

I read the post. I did. I still got that impression. I am a stay at home mom, and you and my husband sound a lot alike when it comes to what we contribute. And I feel disrespected a lot sometimes. So, I was trying to give you something else to think about.

I am sorry that she told you that tonight - I know you did not want this.
Good Luck to you.

Anyway, just let this thread die. At this point I guess a lawyer is my only option :(
Couples counseling may help more than a lawyer, or for you individually as we all can see how you don't respect your wife since she stays home. If she isn't willing you go yourself.

I read the post. I did. I still got that impression. I am a stay at home mom, and you and my husband sound alot alike when it comes to what we contribute. And I feel disrespected alot sometimes. So, I was trying to give you something else to think about.

I am sorry that she told you that tonight - I know you did not want this.
Good Luck to you.

Ok, I want to ask you a ? As a stay at home mom. Do you do the majority of the stuff around the house? Just your general cleaning and straightening and so forth? Or do you watch TV and sit on the internet all day, let the house go to pot, then complain that your husband "doesnt do enough around the house to help out" when he get home from work?

Couples counseling may help more than a lawyer, or for you individually as we all can see how you don't respect your wife since she stays home. If she isn't willing you go yourself.


If you can insinuate from my comments that I "dont respect my wife" Id really like to know your thoughts on her respect for me if you were able to see inside our lives for a few days. :rolleyes:

You attitude has been lousy, and pertinent info is like pulling teeth, so that's all I have, and since you never posted about what she did, how would anyone know. Just by the way you relate to those who try to help, I feel counseling would help you a lot. Your free to do what ever you want.

Can a mod delete this thread please?

Thanks

I can see where your anger is coming from. You work hard to support your kids, and wife and she is bored with house, you and the kids and lets it go. You say she is # 1 in her eyes. Well that is what she was taught by her parents. They put themselves before her (emotions). If her parents were abusive this is where most of her problems come from. If her mom was not nurturing I doubt if she knows how to be after all who should have taught her that . She probably wants to live close to them in hopes of gaining their approval. It's sad to say but their version of you being an ****** is probably all that they agree on. That is how they connect with her, this is when she is feeling like they love her and she wants that more than anything in the world. So you get to be the scapegoat for their family closeness. I see your anger but I also see that you love your wife and kids. I don't know what to tell you to do , but if it helps I do not think that you are totally in the wrong. I am all for women just go look at some of my post, but sir I feel like you are getting the shaft, but stop being so defensive it will not get you anywhere. Read some books on parental abuse, I'm surprised that she doesn't abuse drug, alcohol, shopping, sex usually people that are trying to escape pain use some type of substance for their medication. Good luck

Let see, what do I do all day... I raise another human being - in hopes to produce a productive, respectable adult. That being priority one! I didn't quit my job in the professional world to become a maid.
Then, since I am home all day, I clean the house, I do all the laundry, I plan the meals, shop for those meals, cook those meals, clean up from those meals. I pay all the bills (according to my husband - no I don't "pay" the bills, I write the checks), I manage the money. I am "on" 24/7 because my "job" is never done. I don't get a day off or true "me" time.
I make sure my child is involved in outside activities, so I enroll her and make sure she gets to whatever commitment she has.

You asked - I am telling you. This is my life. I only have one child - you have 4. I could see where things could be let go. There are days that I just can't get up enough whatever to clean or I don't feel like cooking, so we order pizza. I have those days.

And your original question - since she doesn't contribute financially, should she have the RIGHT (? ) to say where you live? Absouletly. You should view this relationship as 50/50 partners. Just because she doesn't get a W2 at the end of the year - doesn't mean she doesn't work. And in statements like these - that is where I see you not respecting her.

And another thing - If you do not want a divorce, regardless of what she is telling you, then man up and fight for your family! Show her that you love her and want her and your family.
I am not trying to offend you - so please don't take it that way - just trying to give you a different prospective.

Then, since I am home all day, I clean the house, I do all the laundry, I plan the meals, shop for those meals, cook those meals, clean up from those meals. I pay all the bills (according to my husband - no I don't "pay" the bills, I write the checks), I manage the money. I am "on" 24/7 because my "job" is never done. I don't get a day off or true "me" time.
.

"I clean the house" - nope
"I do all the laundry" - nope
"I plan the meals" - nope
"shop" - nope
"cook" - nope
"clean up after meals" - nope
"pay bills, manage money" - nope

But our relationships is suppose to be 50-50 right? She pulls the"my job is 24-7" routine on me too. The SAHM part ends when I get home because I also am there taking care of the kids, at that point she isn't doing it alone anymore.

But anyway, I made this thread trying to get some advice on what my options were getting my kids and bringing them back here. Then I feel like I have to spend 4 pages defending myself and explaining the situation because I guess its just too hard to believe that a man can love his wife and do everything he can for her and just continually get $hit on by her. There MUST be a reason she left. :rolleyes:

Trying to identify what your part of the problem is doing "everything" or "anything" to save the marriage. One person can not make or break a relationship. So, the reason for my post was not to make you get on the defensive - but maybe shed some light on what could be going on in your wife's head.
If you can honestly say that you have done everything to save your marriage - then go to the next step. If not, then don't give up.

If you can honestly say that you have done everything to save your marriage - then go to the next step. If not, then don't give up.

What's going on in her head is pretty much a mystery at this point. If you want my honest opinion about it she needs therapy and some kind of medication. She's been on and off anti-depressants several times. She would take them for a while, claim they help, and just stop taking them after declaring "I feel better, I dont think I need them anymore." She had a major incident happen to her when whe was 17 or so that she never told anyone about, never told me about it until about 3yrs ago. Something that she just kind of buried and acted like it never happened. Now you can draw whatever conclusion you want as to what happened.

And who knows, I probably need some kind of therapy too.

So today I tell her "fine, whatever, Ill move, if that is what will make you happy and save our family, I dont care anymore." And the answer I get? "well maybe you should have thought about that a long time ago."

It's a totally one sided relationship, everything is on her terms, and truthfully deep down Im beginning to think maybe this relationship is just too unhealthy to stay together. Who knows, Im losing my mind. :(

There MUST be a reason she left. :rolleyes:
Some peoples ways of getting info is harsh, and its hard to get a handle on the issues with one side of the story, so if I may, if you did get the kids which by the way would be up to a judge officially, what provisions are there where you are for their care and schooling while you look for work, or go to work? I ask because visitation would be a good option while your trying to get the stability of steady empoloyment together, and would also allow you and your wife to find common ground for your differences. The way it looks now, for whatever reason you two are separated, and maybe that's good as a cooling off period would give you both a chance to put the situation into perspective. You might not want to hear this but you both could benefit from counseling, maybe not a health care professional, but an imparcial 3rd party to guide you through the process of resolving your issues, or you go alone or see a pastor whom may be trained in giuding people with problems like you have. A lawyer will give you the legal options, but after that you will need to know which way to go. Hey I can read your frustration, and anger but don't quite on this just yet. It takes time to figure how to fix what's broke. Glad you came back. Hope I at least gave you food for thought.

Okay, let me show it to you this way about the 24/7 thingy, K? Just bear with me.

My husband, kids and I just travelled back home to visit my mother and see my father who was sick. We were here for a week when my husband HAD to get back to work (I don't mean anything bad by that he really had to get back as he is the only one in the company that can do his job and his bench was really piling up), so I decided to stay because I knew that my father would pass soon.

Now, understand that I am a full time nursing student and mother and my husband works. He would continuously tell me that working, paying the bills, etc etc was MUCH MUCH harder than anything I do.

Well, now, back to my story...

They left on Saturday to go back home (650 miles away). My father passed yesterday. So anyway, when talking to hubby on the phone he asked when I was coming home. I told him that I don't know and that I planned to stay as long as Mom needs me. I proceeded to ask him why. He skirted around the issue and then finally said, and I quote: "I finally see how hard it is for you, how do you do it? I really thought you had it easier."

Now, to say that your wife doesn't do as much as you is impossible, unless you have walked in her shoes for a while.

I am going to speak here regarding the legality of what you can and can not do with your kids.

Neither of you has legal custody of the children. There is no court order. So you have as much right to them as she does. The fact is you do have the right to go get your kids and have them be with you. The problem is you have nothing that says for how long, so you have no legal backing. You can not take the children with the intent to conceal nor can she. You can not take the kids and deny her having them nor can she. However, you can get a paper notarized saying what date you are going to get the children, where they will be, and exactly what date you intend to return them to mom and give it to her and take your children to visit with you. That will satisfy any legal issue of your intent. As long as you have a birth certificate with you on it and the fact that you two are married constitutes your paternity so you can take birth certificates, call the police (if she refuses to let you see the kids) and ask them to assist you/ride along for the purpose of keeping the peace and let them know that you are being refused access to your children while you go to moms to get access to your children.

I am going to tell you that you should get a lawyer and at the very least get a parenting plan ordered. Something that establishes the specifics while you are separated and deciding on getting a divorce. Maybe the two of you can mediate an agreement outside of court that would only require a lawyer for the paperwork and filing. Maybe she would be willing to at least protect all your interests for the children. I would start there.

I think your wife has some serious issues of her own unfortunately you can't fix. She sounds like she does need some serious counseling. Problem is we can't make those we love do anything, even if it is in their best interest. I would get counseling for yourself to help deal with the pain of what is going on and to help guide you in how to help your kids go through this as well.

Maybe it would just be best for right now, not to get a lawyer and "slam her" but only to try to work with her in making an agreement between the two of you outside of court for the children. The kids need to know too who they will be with and what times for their own stability and security. Try to take it to her with that approach. Leave the divorce for a little later time. Don't "go after her", let her be gone for now, work with a counselor (you on your own) and see if they can help you better decide when it will be right to try to get her back or let her go for good.

I will pray for you. I wish you the best. You find some very harsh people o here who do take these questions to personally sometimes but some really do care and want to offer helpful advise. I hope you have found a little here.

Okay, let me show it to you this way about the 24/7 thingy, K? Just bear with me.

My husband, kids and I just travelled back home to visit my mother and see my father who was sick. We were here for a week when my husband HAD to get back to work (I don't mean anything bad by that he really had to get back as he is the only one in the company that can do his job and his bench was really piling up), so I decided to stay because I knew that my father would pass soon.

Now, understand that I am a full time nursing student and mother and my husband works. He would continuously tell me that working, paying the bills, etc etc was MUCH MUCH harder than anything I do.

Well, now, back to my story.....

They left on Saturday to go back home (650 miles away). My father passed yesterday. So anyway, when talking to hubby on the phone he asked when I was coming home. I told him that I don't know and that I planned to stay as long as Mom needs me. I proceeded to ask him why. He skirted around the issue and then finally said, and I quote: "I finally see how hard it is for you, how do you do it? I really thought you had it easier."

Now, to say that your wife doesn't do as much as you is impossible, unless you have walked in her shoes for a while.

I understand what you are trying to say, but you aren't following what Im saying. First off, you are not only a SAHM you are a full time student too.

But you also, by your post, do those things that I and most people think of when you hear stay at home mom: cook, clean, shop, laundry, etc.

My wife doesn't do much of any of that. But if I ever bring it up it get look out.

Oh, I am a SHAM!! ROFLMFAO!!

Now the real you comes out. It may be understandable why your wife left.

I am going to speak here regarding the legality of what you can and can not do with your kids.

Neither of you has legal custody of the children. There is no court order. So you have as much right to them as she does. The fact is you do have the right to go get your kids and have them be with you. The problem is you have nothing that says for how long, so you have no legal backing. You can not take the children with the intent to conceal nor can she. You can not take the kids and deny her having them nor can she. However, you can get a paper notarized saying what date you are going to get the children, where they will be, and exactly what date you intend to return them to mom and give it to her and take your children to visit with you. That will satisfy any legal issue of your intent. As long as you have a birth certificate with you on it and the fact that you two are married constitutes your paternity so you can take birth certificates, call the police (if she refuses to let you see the kids) and ask them to assist you/ride along for the purpose of keeping the peace and let them know that you are being refused access to your children while you go to moms to get access to your children.

I am going to tell you that you should get a lawyer and at the very least get a parenting plan ordered. Something that establishes the specifics while you are separated and deciding on getting a divorce. Maybe the two of you can mediate an agreement outside of court that would only require a lawyer for the paperwork and filing. Maybe she would be willing to at least protect all your interests for the children. I would start there.

I think your wife has some serious issues of her own unfortunately you can't fix. She sounds like she does need some serious counseling. Problem is we can't make those we love do anything, even if it is in their best interest. I would get counseling for yourself to help deal with the pain of what is going on and to help guide you in how to help your kids go through this as well.

Maybe it would just be best for right now, not to get a lawyer and "slam her" but only to try to work with her in making an agreement between the two of you outside of court for the children. The kids need to know too who they will be with and what times for their own stability and security. Try to take it to her with that approach. Leave the divorce for a little later time. Don't "go after her", let her be gone for now, work with a counselor (you on your own) and see if they can help you better decide when it will be right to try to get her back or let her go for good.

I will pray for you. I wish you the best. You find some very harsh people o here who do take these questions to personally sometimes but some really do care and want to offer helpful advise. I hope you have found a little here.

That's awesome advice, it really is. That was on of my biggest questions, HOW exactly can I get the kids. I can say with 99.9% assurity that if I were to show up there and say "Im taking the kids back home" she is going to say no. So my biggest question was how can I legally do this even while we aren't divorced or even in the process.

The whole situation is like skating on thin ice. As you say, don't slam her with legal stuff and divorce and all that, but one move in that direction will be seen at the first shot across the bow so Im trying to avoid it as long as I can.

As far as the notorized note, how confident are you that is all that's needed? I has called the police before about getting the kids and was told flat out they can't do anything at all, they can't force her to turn the kids over to me.

Oh, I am a SHAM!!! ROFLMFAO!!!!

Now the real you comes out. It may be understandable why your wife left.

what are you talking about??

it was SAHM, not SHAM.

SAHM = stay at home mom.

:rolleyes:

edit - by the way, your answer echos how a lot of people (thats people) seem to approach this thread. "There MUST BE SOME REASON SHE LEFT, THE REAL YOU COMES OUT." Its like you are looking for something that isn't there and it seems to be common in this country, and especially where the law is concerned. The man is ALWAYS in the wrong.

She may need to see a doctor. Does she refuse or what?

She may need to see a doctor. Does she refuse or what??

Refuse to see a doctor?

If that's what you are asking, she feels like she is OK and Im the only one with the problem, which I probably need to go too.

Okay, sorry, my limited knowledge of anagrams shows my age. I thought you misspelled SHAM. Again, my apologies.

Now, I did read that she was on meds and stopped them once she was feeling better. This is VERY common with people who suffer depression/anxiety.

Has she alwas been like this? Did it start after the birth of a child?

Would she be receptive to marriage counseling?

Okay, sorry, my limited knowledge of anagrams shows my age. I thought you misspelled SHAM. Again, my apologies.

Now, I did read that she was on meds and stopped them once she was feeling better. This is VERY common with people who suffer depression/anxiety.

Has she alwas been like this? Did it start after the birth of a child?

Would she be receptive to marriage counseling?

No problem. Figured you either 1) didn't know what SAHM meant or 2) maybe I had misspelled it. I never knew what it was until wife told me that's what it stood for.

I don't remember for sure how long ago its been since she's been on meds. Been a few years at least. I don't recall really what started her on them either. I personally think she probably needs something.

As far as a counselor goes, I'm all for it. Obviously we need some outside help. But that can't be accomplished 1500 miles apart. We did go to a counselor a few years ago as I mentioned and for the time we went things were very good.

He was a church pastor, just someone that was recommended to me. I didn't know the guy from Adam, other than I knew who he was. At the time my wife agreed with most of what he said. But as I also mentioned now she says she didn't agree with anything he said.

I personally think the inevitable is coming. I said we'd move to try to start over and she's finding excuses with that. :(

I really feel for you Frank, really I do. I have been in your shoes, well kind of. I had post partum and I needed a break (I was a SAHM then, LOL I learned something today), anyway I came home to visit my parents. While here, my hubby had my boys (my two oldest from 1st marriage, and he filed for divorce while I was supposedly "healing"

So I do know where you are coming from

Ok a notarized letter is what would be needed to prove your intent to have a visit with the children and not that you are intending to take them permanently. You need a copy to give to her and a copy for you to keep. It would be best to get her to sign it but... yeah right, right? Anyway, no the police won't help you in deciding who should have the kids, as in you will go to them and they will say we can't get involved because there is no order to enforce, no set specific time for the children to be with either parent that the police can enforce. Does that make sense? That is why getting a court order for custody/visitation agreed to out of court or ordered by a judge will be imperative to your being able to have legally enforceable time with your children.

Getting the cops involved is not the best way to go because it causes drama for the children. What you would need to do though is to file for a temp custody/visitation order ASAP, you may even be able to get an ex party hearing. That would be an emergency hearing. Talk to a lawyer to find out what possible reasons they can dig up for you/that you may have to get one. Tons of lawyers will do free consults over the phone just to answer questions even if you don't retain one, so your wife will never have to know that you have consulted legal opinion. But you should at the very least know your legal rights. And the procedures for your situation and state. You may find out that it will be pretty simple and resolved amicably and easily.

p.s. some people who are already pretty much wanting to cooperate but seem to need that gentle push can be pushed in that direction with the mention of a lawyer... "in the name of cooperation" of course.

Frank, if you decide to go forward with the divorce - are you still going to move? 1500 miles is really quite a distance - that would make seeing your kids really hard.
How old are the kids? Have you got to talk to them?

You had said that her parents have this weird control thing over her. Do you think that with her being with them 24/7 that they are swaying her? And maybe if you went down there (even for a visit) and got to SEE her and talk to her face to face - things maybe different? I just have a tough time telling you to walk. Marriage is really not an easy thing. (as you know) I think you can still do something to save this. I really do.
But, the key is going to be getting face to face with your wife.

Good Luck, Frank.

That was really good advice from Bushg and NowWhat. Bushg actually shed some insight as to my own situation. That is EXACTLY what is happening with my wife. She goes home and her whole family is just showering her with attention and praise. Its ridiculous (kind of). I can understand caring and compassion for a person that has went through some things and I can understand her family feeling sorry for her. What I don't understand is they aren't talking about what she really wants. My wife's parents divorced and she was ignored for a long time. Well, now she is getting what she missed out so long ago. Must be nice.

First of her, stop sending her the money. Next, get a shrewd family lawyer. He'll know how to proceed. It may take a long time so be patient.

Dads far too often forget on major thing:they are still your children ,too.Most states have moved away from the "Tender years" which gave most rights to the mother.Your best bet is to immediately (that means today)go find you a mediator(most attorneys can serve as a mediator),and send her a certified letter requesting mediation.then ,after you send the letter, consult your attorney.She'll likely refuse to mediate,which then gives you the freedom to waltz into court with documentation that you tried to settle this amicably ,but =she refused.You then allow your attorney to go for the jugular.this should save you a lot of money,as the judge in many cases will order her to attend mediation and may even make her pay for it.Think smart,play hard,and ignore the watershed tears that are coming (hers and yours)Remember,the relationship is over.Now its time to fight for your kids.Theyre depending on you to be rational.

Absolutely! Everyone on this thread is trying to play Mr./Mrs. Nice Guy and that's just not going to work in this case.

Can a mod delete this thread please?

Thanks

Actually, don't delete it. There's a lot of good discussion going on here. Frank, a lot of people are trying to put you on a guilt trip and, unfortunately, you seem to be taken in by it. Don't be taken in by it. What your wife did was wrong, certainly morally and, probably to at least some extent, legally as well. She needs to be held accountable for her actions and you're the only one that can do it. It's your duty as a husband and a father to do it. Now, I'm sure she thinks she had her reasons for doing what she did. And there may be some legitimacy to her concerns. However, where you live as a family is determined by what's best for you as a couple and what's best for your kids, not what's convenient for Mommy and Daddy. She needed to cut herself loose from the apron strings the day she said "I do", if not before. She is married to you, not to her mother and father. Now understand that none of this will carry any weight in a court of law. However, you have equal, joint custody of your children and you can legally force her to let you see them. Furthermore, under the circumstances, she should be held for the logistical and financial issues of providing their transportation to and from visiting with you, while not jeopardizing their schooling and safety. It's up to you to get a court to require her to do all of that. Never mind all the counseling jazz and everything else right now ; that'll get resolved at a later date and that's a separate issue. If your wife wants to move out of state to be with mommy and daddy, there may be ultimately nothing you can do to stop that, but you can certainly make her deal with all of the consequences of that choice. But to do so, you need a court order, so go get it now, without further delay.

Hey Frank, I was wondering if you resolved your issue? I am currently in a very, very similar situation. My bipolar wife took my kids to Alaska and is living with her Dad and Mom and from what little information she has given me, she isn't coming back. Before people start thrashing me, I have read all 7 pages of responses. I am scheduling appointments with lawyers tomorrow, but I was wondering if you found out or did anything that was more beneficial in your situation that may assist me in getting my kids back. From what I've read, I can't do anything at all about it, which sucks because it's like she kidnapped my kids and it's legal because she is a legal guardian. I just don't understand how she is not breaking some kind of law with what she did. There must be something I can do.

If someone knows, would it be just as legal for me to fly up to Alaska and bring them back? Any advice is appreciated.

hey Frank, I was wondering if you resolved your issue? I am currently in a very, very similar situation. My bipolar wife took my kids to Alaska and is living with her Dad and Mom and from what little information she has given me, she isn't coming back. Before people start thrashing me, I have read all 7 pages of responses. I am scheduling appointments with lawyers tomorrow, but i was wondering if you found out or did anything that was more beneficial in your situation that may assist me in getting my kids back. From what i've read, i can't do anything at all about it, which sucks because it's like she kidnapped my kids and it's legal because she is a legal guardian. I just don't understand how she is not breaking some kind of law with what she did. There must be something I can do.

If someone knows, would it be just as legal for me to fly up to Alaska and bring them back? Any advice is appreciated.

I represented a guy a few years ago whose wife, while he was at work, took their son and left the state without telling him. She called the next day, lied and said they were in Utah but were really in Washington. I filed an emergency court action for him and had the kid back in about a week (back in California). He's had custody of the kid ever since. The mom has had very limited visitation.

You don't have to put up with this nonsense and shouldn't. Just as an overview, here's what I said on another thread about this subject:

"Disappearing with your child and not telling your co-parent where you are--what you might be concerned with in your case-- is a major state and federal crime (and felony).If this happens what you do immediately is file a court action, set an ex parte (emergency) hearing (usually scheduled within a day or so depending on local court rules) in which you request sole legal and physical custody of the child with no visitation to the other parent, make a police report, appear in court and, when the judge grants your request (which will happen) you turn the orders over to the Child Abduction Unit of your local DA's Office and they will help you locate and get your child back.

"That's what is suppose to happen and that is what is expected for any reasonable parent to do in that situation. Don't listen to people who tell you as a dad you have no rights, or that you have to be on the birth certificate to do this, or that "moms always get the kids unless they're prostitutes or heroin addicts" and all of that nonsense. That is total you-know-what offered by people who simply do not know what they are talking about. It's a level playing field. If you ever see yourself questioning this strategy ask yourself one simple question: What would the mom be doing if you did this with the kid (take off and not let her know where you were)? Freaking out, right? So should you."

I'm not recommending any course of action for you other than to consult with a good family law attorney in your jurisdiction. Do it ASAP.

Dude, I am in a very similar situation. What ever happened?

Depending on the state you live in she may not be allowed to move more than a certain number of miles from you. But you need to file for divorce first so you can get visitation and custody scheduled. Her plan is simple ,move out with the kids, out of state so the courts will not hold her within a certain distance,I live in pa and that's what they do here county line isas far as they can go without a court order. Then she gets to live with her mother and get child support from you. You need to stop giving her money and hire a lawyer get a injunction so she cannot leave state(emergency hearing is what you need). So you can see your kids. If you don't do something soon the courts will think you have no problem with her leaving whatever state you live in

Considering this thread is 4 years old, I am sure they have determined an outcome by now.

Please watch dates when responding to threads.