Responding to this comment #44 from posting
'Republicans are against feeding born babies'

Democratic Representative Veronica Escobar TX, “there is one party in America that is so tied to the NRA, so addicted to their money and their endorsement, that they are willing to let babies die. And that is the Republican Party.”

Huh?? I wonder if she sees the irony in that comment.


Same old same old . Even Bubba understood to not politicize a tragedy. The first 2 minutes or so it sounded like Clueless understood that .Of course he did not sound any where's near as upset when his botched Afghan withdrawal cost us 13 troops .

Then Clueless launched into a similar screed . “When in God’s name are we going to stand up to the gun lobby?” Insisting that the 1994 semi-automatic ban worked ;he called for their banning again The Columbine attack occurred while there was a nationwide ban on semi-automatic rifles .

Did The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban Work? No. Here Are The Data. - The Gun Study (https://thegunstudy.com/facts-stats/did-the-1994-assault-weapons-ban-work-no-here-are-the-data/)
. Not one shooting in America has happened from an NRA member . The type of gun used in the shootings is unknown. He reportedly walked into the school with a rifle and a handgun AFTER firing at police .

The one common denominator in all the mass shootings is that the criminal targets unarmed people . As usual the Dems resort to solutions that don't work . The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with illegal guns .

In the 13 states with the fewest restrictions on gun ownership, 40 percent of inmates illegally obtained the gun they used, Webster said. Only about 13 percent purchased the gun from a store or pawn shop.
In the other 37 states, including New York state, 60 percent of inmates illegally procured the gun they used, Webster said.
"If you look at the most stringent standards for legal gun ownership, it’s more like 65 percent,"


PolitiFact | Is most gun crime committed by those who illegally possess guns? (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/12/john-faso/do-illegal-gun-owners-commit-most-gun-crime-rep-fa/)

To those who think that this is a matter that should be left to law enforcement and say that the 2nd amendment was created at a time when people could not rely on timely law enforcement ;the shootings at Robb Elementary occurred with police on hand. They called for backup and that took several minutes when seconds counted .

The 2 problems that need addressing is mental health ;especially among our teens and youth ;and adequate safety at our schools and other public institutions .

When I was in high school in the sixties (no, not the 1860's), boys would routinely bring their hunting rifles to school so they could leave school and hit the woods. No one shot the place up. But there was respect for life then. Movies were not nearly as unspeakably violent as they are today. There was no public endorsement of abortion. Prayer was exercised in many schools. The Ten Commandments, including a prohibition on murder, were posted on many school walls. I wonder if all of that made a difference?

The population figure was much lower. Plus no video games, families were Mom, Dad, and kids, rape and sexual molestation existed but were generally rare, and churches preached hellfire and fear, not love.

loss of family values is a prime culprit when seeking causation. Society also must recognizing that there is a thing called pure evil that has to be defended against .
Fatherlessness ? keep your mouth shut ! Even though back in the day we nostalagize about it was the father who taught gun safety and responsibility to our generation.
That is why my peers were able to bring guns to school and have gun clubs in the schools .

University of Virginia Professor Brad Wilcox in 2013, "nearly every shooting over the last year in Wikipedia’s 'list of U.S. school attacks' involved a young man whose parents divorced or never married in the first place.”
Sons of Divorce, School Shooters | Institute for Family Studies (ifstudies.org) (https://ifstudies.org/blog/school-shootings-fathers-divorce-family-structure)

The population figure was much lower. Plus no video games, families were Mom, Dad, and kids, rape and sexual molestation existed but were generally rare, and churches preached hellfire and fear, not love.Perhaps you will be happy to know that I find some points of agreement with you, especially concerning family issues and video games. I would say fatherless families are a enormous problem as well as generally decreasing church attendance.

I talked with my son about this today at lunch. He is, I'm sad to report, a liberal dem, but he does have some good sense and asks some good questions. He asked why I thought this epidemic of mass shootings seemed to be in U.S. and not so much elsewhere. I thought that was similarly a good question. I'm sure the relative scarcity of semi-auto weapons in other countries plays some part in it.

Video games it turns out plays a big role in this recent attack. Add to that the isolation that many kids were forced to live in under insane covid protocols

This is stunning .


Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.
“Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.
Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still gathered outside the building.
Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.
“Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”
“They were unprepared,” he added.

19 children, 2 adults killed in Texas school rampage | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683)

Former Pres Obama tweeted this nonsense.

"As we grieve the children of Uvalde today, we should take time to recognize that two years have passed since the murder of George Floyd under the knee of a police officer, His killing stays with us all to this day, especially those who loved him."
"In the aftermath of his murder, a new generation of activists rose up to channel their anguish into organized action, launching a movement to raise awareness of systemic racism and the need for criminal justice and police reform."

Amazing how liberal dems cannot pass up any opportunity to continue to stir racial division.

Republicans: anti-abortion but pro-gun.

What is wrong with this picture?!

there is nothing that says that being pro-gun = pro- murder . whereas if you are pro -abortion you are pro- murder

Well said, Tom.

there is nothing that says that being pro-gun = pro- murder . whereas if you are pro -aborion you are pro- murder
Should I list all the school mass murders? Mass murders in public places? Then you pro-gun people better add a few more restrictions and enforcements before someone can own a gun.

What use are they anyway, especially assault rifles? My husband almost shot a neighbor in the head when she tapped on our front door one evening, needing to borrow two eggs for cookies she was making. Guns should not exist. Look what guns have done in Ukraine -- e.g., 200 Ukranians who were hiding in a basement were shot and killed. The innocents always pay the price.

Republicans: anti-abortion but pro-gun.


And Democrats: Anti-gun and Pro-choice.
Do you see the dichotomy in all of this...

There really are some subjects that should be approached with a holistic and pragmatic outlook rather than merely opposing everything the other political party has to say.

Should I list all the school mass murders? Mass murders in public places? Then you pro-gun people better add a few more restrictions and enforcements before someone can own a gun.What restrictions and enforcements are you suggesting?


What use are they anyway, especially assault rifles? My husband almost shot a neighbor in the head when she tapped on our front door one evening, needing to borrow two eggs for cookies she was making. Guns should not exist. Look what guns have done in Ukraine -- e.g., 200 Ukranians who were hiding in a basement were shot and killed. The innocents always pay the price.We cannot help it if your hubster does not know how to handle a gun. He should definitely learn.

How many of the 200 poor Ukranians had guns themselves?

Many centuries ago the Mongols swept across Asia and murdered tens of thousands of innocents. The Romans did likewise (look up the siege of Jerusalem) as did the Goths and Huns and many others. They had no guns, but they did have evil in their hearts.

What restrictions and enforcements are you suggesting?
Gun ownership at age 21 or even older, not 18. Certificate of proof of firearms classes on proper use. Annual classes in order to renew the certificate. No sales of AR-15s or other assault rifles. I have more but will rest for now.

We cannot help it if your hubster does not know how to handle a gun. He should definitely learn.
He's had a wealth of training and experience.

How many of the Ukranians had guns themselves?
Oooooo, so the Russians shot and killed them in self defense.

What restrictions and enforcements are you suggesting?
Let me make a list.

We cannot help it if your hubster does not know how to handle a gun. He should definitely learn.
He has been well trained.

How many of the 200 poor Ukranians had guns themselves?
Lemmee, stick you into a dank, dark basement for a few weeks, then let a hoarde of Russians with automatic weapons bash their way in. Hmm.... Who has the upper hand?

They had no guns, but they did have evil in their hearts.
The Uvalde shooter had evil in his heart and an assault rifle in his hands.

He's had a wealth of training and experience.Yeah. Really sounds like it. Either he doesn't know what he's doing, or you've just made up another story.


Oooooo, so the Russians shot and killed them in self defense. Uhm...no. The point is that the Ukrainians were unarmed and completely unable to defend themselves.


Gun ownership at age 21 or even older, not 18. Certificate of proof of firearms classes on proper use. Annual classes in order to renew the certificate. No sales of AR-15s or other assault rifles. I have more but will rest for now.You mean like the certificate your hubby had when he almost killed your neighbor? How will a class on the "proper use" of a firearm stop mass shootings? Do you think those killers were simply unaware that shooting elementary school children is something that should not be done?

Finished with the legal opinion yet?

There really are some subjects that should be approached with a holistic and pragmatic outlook rather than merely opposing everything the other political party has to say.
But, unfortunately, neither side is willing to rationally discuss the issues with the other side.

Should I list all the school mass murders? Mass murders in public places? Then you pro-gun people better add a few more restrictions and enforcements before someone can own a gun. My take is that almost all of them were in "gun free zones" as if that is some kind of panacea . Real solutions would be to have armed guards properly trained to guard schools ;and conceal and carry trained teachers . There would be many volunteers for both, Many private guards are ex-police and military . I can guarantee that they would not have waited for some school official to find the key to the locked classroom that the shooter was barricaded in as he plugged away at children.

Where were the cops ? They let him kill for almost an hour !!!!! They waited until they were about 40 strong and still did not enter until the border control showed up and took the shooter down.

I've said it many times . You cannot rely on the police when your life is at stake .When seconds count they are minutes away to draw chalk marks around the victims

What are guns for ? WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO SELF DEFENSE FROM PREDATORS BE THEY CRIMINAL OR GOVERNMENT DESPOTS .


My husband almost shot a neighbor in the head when she tapped on our front door one evening, needing to borrow two eggs for cookies she was making.

Sorry that is a lack of competence and an irresponsible gun owner .


Guns should not exist.
welcome to utopia ,a perfect imaginary world

shooting elementary school children is something that should not be done?
Thus, we need more mental health assistance. And parenting classes. And two-parent families where the parents are responsible and worthy.

Why don't schools have locked metal exit and entrance doors?

Why are there guns in the first place?

There really are some subjects that should be approached with a holistic and pragmatic outlook rather than merely opposing everything the other political party has to say.
here here ! However there is not a state in the nation that does not have gun restrictions . If the starting point is to disarm Americans ;it is not going to happen. And don't listen to Clueless demagogue the issue by comparing it to hunting deer in Kevlar .Hunting is only one of the many reasons to own guns. The 2nd amendment was added to address our God given right to self defense .
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0G1jd6XIAU9TAX?format=jpg&name=small

Hunting is only one of the many reasons to own guns. The 2nd amendment was added to address our God given right to self defense .
Why would anyone want to kill one of God's beautiful creatures like a deer, just for fun?

Why do we need to defend ourselves? Guns aren't the answer.

Thus, we need more mental health assistance. And parenting classes. And two-parent families where the parents are responsible and worthy.Did we have all of that 50 years ago when these occurrences were comparatively rare? What has changed since then?


Why don't schools have locked metal exit and entrance doors?Because people need to go in and out of the school building many, many times a day. Schools are now more and more going to one way in and out with a security guard at the door, but many of the 130,000 or so public school campuses cannot be converted to that design. The last school I worked at was one of those.

I still wonder why this is so frequent now but was not frequent fifty years ago.

Why would anyone want to kill one of God's beautiful creatures like a deer, just for fun?

If you have eaten venison steaks before you would not have asked that question. Deer are over populated in most sections of the country because we culled their natural predators .

Why do we need to defend ourselves? Welcome to utopia that imaginary world in the mind . You live and Chi-town and have to ask that question :?:

BTW, pretty sure you got the story wrong on the Ukrainians in the basement. They were not shot by Russian troops. The likelihood is that the building was bombed. Doesn't make it any less tragic, but it does point out that guns were not the issue.


Deer are over populated in most sections of the country because we culled their natural predators .That is absolutely true here. People have to realize that all deer are going to die. The only question is how. I don't hunt, but I know people who do. Hunting is generally good for the deer population as it keeps the numbers down which is important.

but it does point out that guns were not the issue. and neither was it in Oklahoma city or on 9-11 . To my knowlege fertilizer and box cutters were not banned after .

but it does point out that guns were not the issueCorrect. It seems that being careless with the truth is fine as long as it fits into the narrative.

My answer would be for doors locked to the outside but for fire safety doors should be able to be opened from the inside . Anyone who wants access to the building must pass through security .

School shootings are almost non-existent in Israel where security concerns are much more critical and complicated . Schools are not secure in this country because of a myopic obsession with this belief that banning guns will keep people safe .

You live and Chi-town and have to ask that question :?:
No, I don't live in Chicago.

Turns out there was no armed security on the school campus when the shooter arrived. He stood outside, as I understand it, for several minutes shooting some rounds at the school. He then found an unlocked door in the rear of the campus and entered a fourth grade classroom where he did, it seems, most if not all of the killing. I really wonder what happened in those minutes when he was shooting but not yet in the building. Our old school could get locked down in less than a minute, so I am puzzled at some of this. The police initially entered the building, but when they were fired on they pulled back, took cover, and asked for more help.

So it just seems that there could have been better preparation and reaction. When I was a principal, I decided it would be nice to be armed and well-trained. Even at that, it just seems that our values in this country have sunk to a very low place. We kill hundreds of thousands of unborn children without so much as a blink of the eye. We kill on video games (graphically!) and see people killed on television and movies in ways that look completely realistic. Church attendance is the lowest it's been in perhaps the history of the country. Combine all of that with the availability of guns and you have trouble.

I'm hoping it was a breakdown in protocol . Standing around for 40 minutes even if there was not another shot is unconscionable .In that time I'm betting a wounded child died. Now I hear the cops were playing crowd control keeping parents from taking action , It included cuffing a mom and tasering a father .

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/12719453_993553580729861_6218406275118190757_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=jiDDV4sKUmAAX_6ghuf&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8OmQycj3Q4xED15Tj1sSy30tnB5X-MvZvSJFue9Zy6XA&oe=62B5EDEC

That is not being done with women seeking abortions in most places. It varies from state to state. The same is true of people making gun purchases. The man's tweet might could be taken seriously if he knew what he was talking about. His description of an ultrasound is ridiculous. The typical sonogram is not done in that manner. Most women don't drive long distances since most states have multiple facilities which can be driven to in a fairly short time period. So his claims are just absurdly stupid. They are typical of what I stated above. It is easier to believe the convenient rather than to believe the truth.

State laws in a number of states regarding abortion will become more and more restrictive.

I notice you ragged on the abortion part (apparently you've never been pregnant) but didn't say a word about stricter gun laws and regulations.

Tell me which more restrictive gun law would prevent these shootings. Also tell us how well the very restrictive gun laws in Chicago are working.

The man made up nonsense about abortion and then compared that to gun purchases. Why didn’t you see that?

Read only the gun restriction section.

How would YOU fix this?

I have no problem with some of the suggestions like mandatory waiting periods ,more rigorous background checks .

Parental permission does not apply because only legal adults can buy guns now . There is no state that allows minors to purchase guns . Here are the Federal Guidelines


Under the Gun Control ACT (GCA) , shotguns and rifles, and ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 18 years of age or older. All firearms other than shotguns and rifles, and all ammunition other than ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 21 years of age or older. Licensees are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA regardless of state or local law. However, if state law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age for the purchase or disposition of firearms, the licensee must observe the higher age requirement
[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1) and (b)(2); 27 CFR 478.99(b)] These guidelines were reviewed in April of this year .

Most of the rest are nonsense . The vast majority of gun purchases are not for the purpose of committing murder whereas every single abortion does .
.

The unanswered question.
Tell me which more restrictive gun law would prevent these shootings.

How would I "fix it"? I don't think it can be "fixed" in the sense of preventing all mass shootings, but this would help.

1. Place the Ten Commandments back on the schoolhouse walls. (Would have to be state by state.)
2. Have all schools begin the day with this prayer. "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon You, and we ask for Your blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our country." (Again, would have to be state by state.)
3. Provide armed and well trained security for all schools.
4. Make school campuses as secure as is practically possible.
5. Return to the two-parent family.
6. Make divorce more difficult.
7. Stop the practice of abortion out of respect for human life.

Only the third and fourth items would do much for the present. The others would yield many long-term benefits. I don't think a waiting period for gun purchases would accomplish anything in preventing these mass shootings. A public service campaign encouraging people to report dangerous posts on social media might help some. It would have helped in this most recent incident.

I asked, "Tell me which more restrictive gun law would prevent these shootings."

The reply was, "Read only the gun restriction section." I had hoped she would have expressed ideas of her own, but nonetheless I pulled these from the poorly thought out tweet.

1. Mandatory waiting period. Won't hurt but won't prevent mass shootings at all.
2. Parental permission. Completely stupid suggestion.
3. Note from doctor. Ridiculous.
4. Ultrasound with wand up rectum. Huh?
5. Only one gun store per state. Ridiculous.
6. Walk through a "gauntlet" of protestors to buy a gun. If the anti-gun lobby wants to do that, then they are free to do it. So far they have not done so, and I doubt they have the courage to do it.

I'll add one more to my list above. Do more to prevent people with serious mental illness from buying a gun. I'm not sure how that can be done, but if something workable is possible, then I'd be all for it.

1. Place the Ten Commandments back on the schoolhouse walls. (Would have to be state by state.)
2. Have all schools begin the day with this prayer. "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon You, and we ask for Your blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our country." (Again, would have to be state by state.)
3. Provide armed and well trained security for all schools.
4. Make school campuses as secure as is practically possible.
5. Return to the two-parent family.
6. Make divorce more difficult.
7. Stop the practice of abortion out of respect for human life.
1. That never stopped schoolchildren even from bullying, fist fights, gossiping, lying, etc. That posting was a running joke.
2. No. Only in religious schools, not public. US Constitution, First Amendment, Separation of church and state.
3. Like those at Robb? Why not install solid steel entrance/exit doors that are kept locked?
4. Impossible.
5. Good luck with that!
6. Then be ready for lots of abuse etc. reports.
7. What do you plan to do with all those unwanted babies?

1. That never stopped schoolchildren even from bullying, fist fights, gossiping, lying, etc. That posting was a running joke." Any public school employee will tell you that school violence and disrespectful behavior has worsened considerably over the past several decades since the TC were taken down.
2. No. Only in religious schools, not public. US Constitution, First Amendment, Separation of church and state. Actually, the prayer I listed is a non-specific prayer that does not establish any religion. There is no separation of church and state.
3. Like those at Robb? Why not install solid steel entrance/exit doors that are kept locked? As I posted earlier, it is now being admitted that there was no armed security at RE. The unlocked back door was a huge mistake.
4. Impossible. It's impossible to make them as secure as possible??? Don't be ridiculous. Of course it can be done. The key words are, "as possible".
5. Good luck with that! It was the standard for two hundred years before liberal influences damaged it. It can be the standard again.
6. Then be ready for lots of abuse etc. reports. There are millions and millions of marriages with no abuse.
7. What do you plan to do with all those unwanted babies? First of all, it is not my direct responsibility to take care of someone else's child, so your question in invalid. But to be clear, many of the women who routinely use abortion as birth control will find another method once the killing of unborn children is stopped, so many of the pregnancies now occurring will no longer happen. Of those that do, many of them will be kept by the mom (and hopefully husband/father) and will be loved. Many will be adopted. The state will have to put some in foster homes. The 2,000 or so crisis pregnancy centers run by primarily conservative Christian pro-lifers (pro-abortion supporters do not run many CPC's) will be kept busy.

Should I suppose we will get your suggestions about the same time we get the promised legal opinion?

Some things are hard to understand. It's beginning to look more and more like a less than stellar performance by the local police.

Fast Facts



1. The Texas Department of Public Safety said Friday that responding authorities didn’t immediately engage the shooter because the police commander on scene believed the attack had transitioned to a barricaded suspect situation.
2. A school district police officer was not inside Robb Elementary School when suspected shooter Salvador Ramos arrived and unknowingly drove past him at one point.
3. Nearly 20 officers stood in a school hallway for 45 minutes before authorities were able to breach a classroom door to confront and kill the gunman, authorities said.

1. That never stopped schoolchildren even from bullying, fist fights, gossiping, lying, etc. That posting was a running joke." Any public school employee will tell you that school violence and disrespectful behavior has worsened considerably over the past several decades since the TC were taken down. NO public school should have the TC posted except perhaps temporarily as part of a history lesson.
2. No. Only in religious schools, not public. US Constitution, First Amendment, Separation of church and state. Actually, the prayer I listed is a non-specific prayer that does not establish any religion. There is no separation of church and state. It refers to the Jewish/Christian God. That would be offensive to atheists, Jains, Buddhists, even Muslims, et al.
3. Like those at Robb? Why not install solid steel entrance/exit doors that are kept locked? As I posted earlier, it is now being admitted that there was no armed security at RE. The unlocked back door was a huge mistake. It was also propped open. And they are finally admitting the lack of security oversight.
4. Impossible. It's impossible to make them as secure as possible??? Don't be ridiculous. Of course it can be done. The key words are, "as possible". Someone will unlock a door and forget to unlock it. Someone will even prop open a door. Someone will yawn and say, "It won't happen here."
5. Good luck with that! It was the standard for two hundred years before liberal influences damaged it. It can be the standard again. Too large and diverse of a population now. Won't happen.
6. Then be ready for lots of abuse etc. reports. There are millions and millions of marriages with no abuse. Oh, many marriages DO have abuse, which takes many forms. And separation and even divorce become the solution.
7. What do you plan to do with all those unwanted babies? First of all, it is not my direct responsibility to take care of someone else's child, so your question in invalid. But to be clear, many of the women who routinely use abortion as birth control will find another method once the killing of unborn children is stopped, so many of the pregnancies now occurring will no longer happen. Of those that do, many of them will be kept by the mom (and hopefully husband/father) and will be loved. Many will be adopted. The state will have to put some in foster homes. The 2,000 or so crisis pregnancy centers run by primarily conservative Christian pro-lifers (pro-abortion supporters do not run many CPC's) will be kept busy. Too many will grow up feeling deprived of a family, two parents, their REAL parents. Too many will be mentally and/or physically abused. Too many will not have happy lives.

Why are assault rifles even available -- to ANYONE OVER 18???

NO public school should have the TC posted except perhaps temporarily as part of a history lesson.Why not?


It refers to the Jewish/Christian God. That would be offensive to atheists, Jains, Buddhists, even Muslims, et al.Not to Muslims. Probably not to Buddhists. I'm tired of people getting "offended" over basically nothing.


Someone will unlock a door and forget to unlock it. Someone will even prop open a door. Someone will yawn and say, "It won't happen here."

That's a poor excuse. "Don't put up speed limit signs because some people will ignore them!! And don't try and use a sterile surgical environment since doctors sometimes don't wash their hands properly." It's just stunning to hear someone seriously suggest that we should not make efforts to make schools more difficult targets. Incredible. So you want us to just leave them wide open for mass shooters to enter and make no efforts at all? Wow.


Too large and diverse of a population now. Won't happen.So let's not shoot too high? We can no longer achieve greatness? Can't agree with you on that one.


Oh, many marriages DO have abuse, which takes many forms. And separation and even divorce become the solution.I didn't say make divorce impossible. I said make it difficult. And you talk about ME not having reading comp???


Too many will grow up feeling deprived of a family, two parents, their REAL parents. Too many will be mentally and/or physically abused. Too many will not have happy lives.
So it's just much better to kill them? Just get rid of them since, after all, life can be risky? Can't go along with you on that one either. By that logic, we could just as well start killing those kids who are not living "happy lives". I guess we'd be doing them a favor?


Why are assault rifles even available -- to ANYONE OVER 18???If you do away with so called "assault rifles", you will do nothing to stop gun murders. It is only intended to make liberal dems feel better. It would only take a few years and liberal dems would begin to call for the elimination of handguns. Any mass shooter can carry two semi-auto handguns and have 22 rounds available. Then a quick reload (three seconds per gun) and you have 22 more.

Not to Muslims. Probably not to Buddhists. I'm tired of people getting "offended" over basically nothing.
Second Amendment.

That's a poor excuse. "Don't put up speed limit signs because some people will ignore them!! And don't try and use a sterile surgical environment since doctors sometimes don't wash their hands properly." It's just stunning to hear someone seriously suggest that we should not make efforts to make schools more difficult targets. Incredible. So you want us to just leave them wide open for mass shooters to enter and make no efforts at all? Wow.
That's what happened at Robb -- Someone will unlock a door and forget to unlock it. Someone will even prop open a door. Someone will yawn and say, "It won't happen here."

So let's not shoot too high? We can no longer achieve greatness? Can't agree with you on that one.
Nope. Too many divergent opinions in such a huge population.


I didn't say make divorce impossible. I said make it difficult. And you talk about ME not having reading comp???
Yes, you have reading comp problems. I didn't say impossible.

So it's just much better to kill them? Just get rid of them since, after all, life can be risky? Can't go along with you on that one either. By that logic, we could just as well start killing those kids who are not living "happy lives". I guess we'd be doing them a favor?
In other words, you don't give a hoot about the born ones.

If you do away with so called "assault rifles", you will do nothing to stop gun murders. It is only intended to make liberal dems feel better. It would only take a few years and liberal dems would begin to call for the elimination of handguns. Any mass shooter can carry two semi-auto handguns and have 22 rounds available. Then a quick reload (three seconds per gun) and you have 22 more.
We do not need assault rifles. The many mass murders have been committed with assault rifles, not with handguns or Winchesters or bb guns or butter knives.

That's what happened at Robb -- Someone will unlock a door and forget to unlock it. Someone will even prop open a door. Someone will yawn and say, "It won't happen here."So let's just forget it and let our kids die? Wow. What a pathetic idea. It's like suggesting we not put locks on our home doors since, after all, someone will forget to lock one. That you would suggest just leaving our schoolchildren in dangerous situations is really shocking.


Nope. Too many divergent opinions in such a huge population.We have always had many divergent opinions. So we shouldn't have tried to end slavery since we had so many divergent opinions on the subject? We should always aim for greatness and not for excuses. Laziness breeds failure.


Yes, you have reading comp problems. I didn't say impossible.I didn't say you did. Reading comp problem again?


In other words, you don't give a hoot about the born ones.You can't defend your own sick idea, so the problem must be mine? Got it!


We do not need assault rifles. The many mass murders have been committed with assault rifles, not with handguns or Winchesters or bb guns or butter knives.Read my statement again but this time a little more slowly and carefully. If you take away "assault weapons", the sick mind of a mass shooter can just as easily attack people with handguns. It would be no problem at all. And even at that, the vast, vast majority of gun murders are committed with handguns, so that will be the next logical target for you liberal dems.

NO public school should have the TC posted except perhaps temporarily as part of a history lesson.....It refers to the Jewish/Christian God. That would be offensive to atheists, Jains, Buddhists, even Muslims, et al.They represent a set of laws that are universal .

Why are assault rifles even available -- to ANYONE OVER 18???

I already posted the Federal law that says rifles of any kind cannot be purchased by anyone under 18 . Assault rifles are a clever term the anti-gun crowd uses for semi-automatic rifles that look like they are military . If they were shaped like hunting rifles there would be less objection even though they function the same .

A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had gathered for a party, authorities said.

Dennis Butler, 37, was killed Wednesday night after he pulled out the rifle and began shooting at dozens of people attending the birthday-graduation party outside an apartment complex in the city of Charleston, police said in a statement.
The woman, who was attending the party, drew a pistol and fired, killing Butler, the statement said. No one at the party was injured.

Woman legally carrying gun kills man who shot into crowd, police say | WPDE (https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/a-west-virginia-woman-kills-man-who-fired-shots-into-party-crowd)

They represent a set of laws that are universal .Exactly. It would represent a set of moral values that we would say we are endorsing as a nation.

This I do not understand. The same person who said, "Why not install solid steel entrance/exit doors that are kept locked?" also said, in response to a suggestion that schools be made as secure as possible, "Someone will unlock a door and forget to unlock it (sic). Someone will even prop open a door. Someone will yawn and say, 'It won't happen here.'" Why suggest solid steel doors and then just blow it off and say that people will only leave them propped open?

This I do not understand. The same person who said, "Why not install solid steel entrance/exit doors that are kept locked?" also said, in response to a suggestion that schools be made as secure as possible, "Someone will unlock a door and forget to unlock it (sic). Someone will even prop open a door. Someone will yawn and say, 'It won't happen here.'" Why suggest solid steel doors and then just blow it off and say that people will only leave them propped open?
Because that's what happened at Robb Elementary. And your discussion timeline is off course.


Exactly. It would represent a set of moral values that we would say we are endorsing as a nation.
That's not true at all! And, anyway, who reads words on a wall and obeys them? Remember Moses and the golden calf story and what happened to those two tablets?


Assault rifles are a clever term the anti-gun crowd uses for semi-automatic rifles that look like they are military . If they were shaped like hunting rifles there would be less objection even though they function the same .
Tom, assault rifles do not function the same. Assault rifes shoot out bullets how? Hunting rifles shoot out bullets how? Big difference! Physical appearance has nothing to do with it.

Because that's what happened at Robb Elementary. And your discussion timeline is off course.That's just words. It offers no real explanation of the contradiction of your two remarks. I suggested, "Make school campuses as secure as is practically possible." Your response was, "Impossible". So it's impossible to make school campuses, "...as secure as is practically possible?" Huh??? That makes no sense at all. It clearly had not been done at RE but certainly COULD have been done.


That's not true at all! And, anyway, who reads words on a wall and obeys them? Which of the commandments do you oppose? Which ones do you read and not obey? We read signs on walls all the time and obey them. Perhaps you don't.


Assault rifes shoot out bullets how? Hunting rifles shoot out bullets how? Big difference!There is no difference in how semi-auto rifles fire, be they hunting or "assault". You just don't understand that so called "assault weapons" are called that because they resemble military rifles in appearance. They do NOT resemble them in operation. Look up the Winchester Model 1907 and you'll see what we are talking about.

That's just words. It offers no real explanation of the contradiction of your two remarks. I suggested, "Make school campuses as secure as is practically possible." Your response was, "Impossible". So it's impossible to make school campuses, "...as secure as is practically possible?" Huh??? That makes no sense at all. It clearly had not been done at RE but certainly COULD have been done.
What about all those other school shootings in the past? Yes, a school can be made secure, but the humans who work there and go to school there must respect and maintain that security.

Which of the commandments do you oppose? Which ones do you read and not obey? We read signs on walls all the time and obey them. Perhaps you don't.
My comment has NOTHING to do with opposing commandments! I do my best to obey the Ten Commandments but not because they are posted on a wall. The same holds true for anyone else, even you.

There is no difference in how semi-auto rifles fire, be they hunting or "assault". You just don't understand that so called "assault weapons" are called that because they resemble military rifles in appearance. They do NOT resemble them in operation. Look up the Winchester Model 1907 and you'll see what we are talking about.
Why didn't he buy two handguns and use those to kill 21 people?

Yes, a school can be made secure, but the humans who work there and go to school there must respect and maintain that security.You said it was impossible before. We can agree, however, on what you have just posted.


Why didn't he buy two handguns and use those to kill 21 people?You'd have to ask him. The point is that these "assault rifles" operate in the same manner as a semi-auto hunting rifle.

We should put the TC on the wall so children can be aware of them and so we can affirm that those commandments are a common moral view for our country.

You'd have to ask him. The point is that these "assault rifles" operate in the same manner as a semi-auto hunting rifle.
And what is the difference between killing a classroom of 4th graders with a handgun vs. with an assault rifle/semi-automatic hunting rifle? Which would be more effective and why?

We should put the TC on the wall so children can be aware of them and so we can affirm that those commandments are a common moral view for our country.
And that wall would be smeared with goop, laughed at, and the commands on it ignored.

And what is the difference between killing a classroom of 4th graders with a handgun vs. with an assault rifle/semi-automatic hunting rifle? Which would be more effective and why?There is basically no difference. That's kind of the whole point. You would have to get rid of all of them. I would fear semi-auto handguns more than anything since they are much easier to conceal and easy to reload, but all of them can be deadly.


And that wall would be smeared with goop, laughed at, and the commands on it ignored.Well then there is no point in even trying is there? After all, we might encounter difficulties. I guess those of us who spent more than two decades as a principal have no intention of having an unruly school that would permit that to happen. Perhaps your libraries allowed such behavior to occur. My schools did not. You do realize they are in the Supreme Court building? Are they "smeared with goop" there? Good grief.

Surrendering to problems has not been my motto in life. Preaching to drug addicts is a tough assignment. You know that most of them will go back to addiction, but some will not. So we just keep trying to make the program better and thus win more battles. That's how life works.

There is basically no difference. That's kind of the whole point. You would have to get rid of all of them. I would fear semi-auto handguns more than anything since they are much easier to conceal and easy to reload, but all of them can be deadly.
How many bullets can be fired in a minute by an assault rifle? Spraying bullets as the shooter waves the gun from side to side? By a handgun or hunting rifle?

Well then there is no point in even trying is there? After all, we might encounter difficulties. I guess those of us who spent more than two decades as a principal have no intention of having an unruly school that would permit that to happen. Perhaps your libraries allowed such behavior to occur. My schools did not.
Public libraries do not and would not post the Ten Commandments. Public libraries are not in the business of regulating morals. Walk over to the 220s for help with that.

No TCs need to be posted anywhere once we achieve your dream of solid, Christian, two-parent families.

How many bullets can be fired in a minute by an assault rifle?Since you have to pull the trigger each time you want to fire a round, then semi-auto rifles and semi-auto handguns have about the same rate of fire. You cannot "spray" bullets with either weapon. These are not fully-auto guns; they are semi-auto. Fully auto guns are not legal for ownership without licensing which is very difficult to obtain.


Public libraries are not in the business of regulating morals.Oh? So you allowed couples to have sex in your libraries? Did you allow porn to be watched on the internet? Did you allow vile language to be used? Did you allow people to bring in handguns? Did you allow sexual assault? Did you allow people to walk around naked?

Oh? So you allowed couples to have sex in your libraries? Did you allow porn to be watched on the internet? Did you allow vile language to be used? Did you allow people to bring in handguns? Did you allow sexual assault? Did you allow people to walk around naked?
Not ever a problem. Library patrons are respectful of each other and of the setting they are in. People LOVE their libraries! We did, a couple of times, have to ask our resident homeless guy Jerry to stop snoring when he fell asleep while sitting in one of the overstuffed chairs. And I had to take loudly sobbing Mrs. H into a quiet study room until she calmed down and then opened up to me about her upset. I then, with her permission, took her next door to the county resource center and introduced her to one of the social workers who handled it from there.

I'll bet your internet was filtered. Don't believe at all that no one ever tried to use vile language or that you would have allowed someone to just walk around naked or have sex in the middle of the place. You've told too many tall tales for me to believe that. Of course you enforced moral values. Everyone does. It's just a matter of whose values.

I'll bet your internet was filtered. Don't believe at all that no one ever tried to use vile language or that you would have allowed someone to just walk around naked or have sex in the middle of the place. You've told too many tall tales for me to believe that. Of course you enforced moral values. Everyone does. It's just a matter of whose values.
Nope, didn't happen. I worked FT in very friendly and hospitable suburban libraries. Never a problem with disruptive patrons. I couldn't wait to get to work each day, and was sad I had to leave at the end of my shift.

People love their public libraries. I bet you don't have a library card. Have you ever been in a public library?

So you were in a nice, cozy, safe, suburban environment? That explains a lot of things. Still, you enforced some moral values. You expected your employees to treat people properly. You filtered your internet. You didn't allow patrons to just walk out with books. Even in your Garden of Eden, you had standards that you enforced. Everyone does.

Believe it or not, my family and I were once named Library Patrons of the Year at our local library. I had a card for many years and used the library a lot when I was teaching.

It would be nice to hear you, just once, acknowledge that you had something wrong. You plainly had bad information on the whole semi-auto gun issue. This would be a good time to acknowledge it. Hopefully you won't be posting comments like these again which, as has been clearly demonstrated, was flat wrong. "Tom, assault rifles do not function the same. Assault rifes shoot out bullets how? Hunting rifles shoot out bullets how? Big difference! Physical appearance has nothing to do with it." Well, uhm, as it turned out, appearance had a LOT to do with it.

Tom, assault rifles do not function the same. Assault rifes shoot out bullets how? Hunting rifles shoot out bullets how? Big difference! Physical appearance has nothing to do with it.

of course they are the same . Remington ,Winchester ,Ruger ,Browning all make AR model hunting rifles .

When you pull the trigger on an assault rifle, what happens?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2cK4_Z-Ke1I

Tom, what about AR-47s? Was the Uvalde shooter carrying a hunting rifle? Why didn't he use that instead or a .22?

The big differences between that and the AR 15 is the AR 15 is lighter weight and has a higher rate of accuracy The AR47 is for a different calber of ammo. The AR47 is cheaper both rifles are made for hunting and defense use .
btw AR stands for ArmaLite rifle, after the company that developed it in the 1950s. “AR” does NOT stand for “assault rifle” or “automatic rifle.”

The big differences between that and the AR 15 is the AR 15 is lighter weight and has a higher rate of accuracy The AR47 is for a different caliber of ammo. The AR47 is cheaper both rifles are made for hunting and defense use .
btw AR stands for ArmaLite rifle, after the company that developed it in the 1950s. “AR” does NOT stand for “assault rifle” or “automatic rifle.”
Thank you, Tom!

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284136084_10225062333998144_7865529318923594925_n. jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6178K2Y0tKUAX9kMeAs&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT-kDoPuR3v8qU9jeiZOb3_ZPJKRmcnk8cQz41DqkuLaig&oe=6297BB66

would the anti-gun crowd be satified with anything less than a ban as many prominent progressives have argued for this week ? My guess is no. New regulations become the new starting point for a series of new restrictions .

Purchasing a car requires NO backround check or waiting period as most gun purchases . Someone could be a criminal ,arrested ,serve time then released and purchase a car the next day . Any car can be stolen and used in an illegal act just like a gun. In fact it is easier to do so.

More later

Shooting a Full Auto Polytech AK-47

If you had read the title of the Youtube video, you would have read that the gun was fully automatic and not semi. Those rifles were imported from China and are, I imagine, Chinese clones of the Russian AK-47 which really is an assault rifle. So when you pull the trigger on a genuine, military assault rifle, if it is set for auto, then it fires until you release the trigger. But for the umpteenth time, the AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle and is NOT full auto. You pull the trigger, and one round fires.

The AR-47 is basically an AR-15 rechambered to handle the 7.62mm Russian round. The AR-15 typically uses the standard NATO round which is 5.56mm.

If you had read the title of the Youtube video, you would have read that the gun was fully automatic and not semi.
Oh, I read it. Just testing you and giving you something to growl about. Doncha love it when there's a reason to post?

Yeah. I'm sure that's what it is.

This is so appropriate that I must repost it. "It would be nice to hear you, just once, acknowledge that you had something wrong. You plainly had bad information on the whole semi-auto gun issue. This would be a good time to acknowledge it. Hopefully you won't be posting comments like these again which, as has been clearly demonstrated, was flat wrong. "Tom, assault rifles do not function the same. Assault rifes shoot out bullets how? Hunting rifles shoot out bullets how? Big difference! Physical appearance has nothing to do with it." Well, uhm, as it turned out, appearance had a LOT to do with it."

Nope. I was testing you.

I am a librarian. I did thorough research before posting. Was hoping you would post a clear explanation.

Kept you busy!

You misspelled "rifle" as "rife". That kind of summed it up.

where a car and a gun are similar is that they are effective tools . Used properly they fulfil their purpose . Used incorrectly they are deadly instruments amounting to roughly the same number of deaths last year . (gun deaths include murder ,suicide and accidental discharge . ) No one uses the fallacy that cars are only good for killing and should be banned . No one says that if a drunk driver kills someone driving a Jeep that military style cars should be banned . It is understood that the killer was the drunk and not the car .

You misspelled "rifle" as "rife". That kind of summed it up.
See how well I'm keeping you sharp!!! I must have corrected that typo, can't find it. Thank goodnes you never make any!

Post 63. That's one reason I like to copy your posts. Helps avoid the "can't find it" syndrome.

After the whopper you told two weeks ago, your credibility is shot. And today hasn't helped your cause a bit.

Post 63. That's one reason I like to copy your posts. Helps avoid the "can't find it" syndrome.

After the whopper you told two weeks ago, your credibility is shot. And today hasn't helped your cause a bit.
Then I'm gone. Goodbye. P.S. #63 is Tom's post. Ask God for forgiveness.

It's a post with your "can't find it" post copied in it. I copied it in post 52. No forgiveness needed.

Rather than pulling up stakes and leaving, why not try being more careful and truthful? We are all prone to tell whoppers if we are not careful. You were caught and, in fact, you admitted it, so why not just "woman up", admit it, and move forward? Wouldn't that be the honorable thing to do? I'm just at a loss to understand pulling out because of your own issues. And I'm really not trying to point fingers, but your lack of candor becomes irritating after a while. Just being honest about it.

#63, now #52. I said "can't find it" because we're allowed by AMHD for so many hours to edit our posts. I'm on a Kindle, type with my left pointer finger, read my published post, correct any typos, then republish.

If you stick to the discussion on the table without adding pejorative comments, I'll behave too and give it another try.

I'm revising a previous comment to now read

When seconds count the cops are an hour away .

Border Patrol Agents Defied Uvalde Police Orders to Remain Outside School (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/border-patrol-agents-defied-uvalde-police-orders-to-remain-outside-school/ar-AAXPkl5?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=2d49776b04db49d2b684cc991afc08f3)

The Border Patrol agents who killed the school shooter in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday entered the school on their own accord after local law enforcement requested that they hold back, two senior federal law enforcement sources told NBC News on Friday.

I thought I saw on the news today that the Uvalde police chief is very much regretting his decision to hold back.

Tom, there were a number of circumstances in Uvalde that are really questionable. Not only the rear door being propped open, but evidently the classroom doors were not locked. With the shooting that went on outside the building, did they lockdown? If so, then the classroom doors should have been locked. The incredibly slow response time for the police was not good, and the inability to get a truthful report out at the beginning was curious as well. All in all, it seems we have learned very little from previous tragedies, and that is more alarming than anything else.

We were required to run a number of drills every year and one of them was a crisis drill. We had to account for students on the playground, students in the cafeteria, students in the gym, and, of course, students in the classrooms. Locking doors and having students concealed were vital. Trying to make sure sub teachers knew what to do was always a challenge.

Unfortunately, the days of leaving windows and doors open in classrooms are long gone. Gates are locked. Classroom doors are locked. The office has cameras outside to view visitors, and run their driver’s license through a criminal database. We’ve had active shooter training, and we have a lot of practice drills. I am lucky to have a bathroom in my classroom. How many children can get into the bathroom and “disappear” in less than 20 seconds? 30+ a teacher and we had room to spare. Welcome to teaching today!

‘Guns Should Not Be In The Hands Of The Mentally Unstable,’ Says Senile Man With Nukes | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/guns-should-not-be-in-the-hands-of-the-mentally-unstable-says-senile-man-with-nukes)

Priceless.

"It would be a disaster," said one Democratic strategist. "Think of putting weapons in the hands of people who can't even define what a 'woman' is! I shudder at the thought! Please disarm us immediately!"

Unfortunately, the days of leaving windows and doors open in classrooms are long gone. Gates are locked. Classroom doors are locked. The office has cameras outside to view visitors, and run their driver’s license through a criminal database. We’ve had active shooter training, and we have a lot of practice drills. I am lucky to have a bathroom in my classroom. How many children can get into the bathroom and “disappear” in less than 20 seconds? 30+ a teacher and we had room to spare. Welcome to teaching today!I'm retired now, but I remember those days well. We were required to have a fire drill every month, a bad weather drill every semester, a bus evac drill once a year, and a crisis drill (shooter) once a year. We were a rural school with a two lane highway running in front. It used to concern me a great deal as to what we do once the highway filled, as it was sure to do, with the cars of panicked parents by the hundreds. How would we get emergency vehicles in. So we developed a mentality of what we would do ourselves to keep our kids safe. We had an excellent deputy on campus all day so that was good.

No tragedy like this would be complete without someone playing the race card.

Here is University of Pennsylvania professor Anthea Butler

https://i0.wp.com/jonathanturley.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/butler-tweet.jpg?ssl=1

Here is the poblem with her theory . Chief of Police is Daniel Rodiguez .Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police Chief is Pedro Arredondo. Oh yeah ;one sheriff's deputy lost his daughter inside the school.

Some members of the staff of the Melissa Tx school district have been armed since 2016 . They decided to post it so all can see.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FT3DuE5UUAElbB6?format=jpg&name=small

Melissa Schools Warn: We are Armed and Trained – NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth (nbcdfw.com) (https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/melissa-schools-warn-we-are-armed-and-trained/221416/)

It is sickening beyond belief. The evil of these who want to divide is terrible.

I think armed staff is something we are going to have to consider.

I think armed staff is something we are going to have to consider.
I believe that would be a mistake. Here is a letter to the editor in today's newspaper:

Logistics of arming teachers

Let’s take a look at the “arm the teachers” concept. A shooter gets in a school building, and teachers hear alarms or gunshots.

Will the teacher wear a holster with a loaded handgun in class? Concealed carry or open to view?

If not, will there be a loaded firearm in each classroom?

How will it be stored so it can be accessed and ready to fire in seconds?

How does the school prevent unauthorized people (adults and children) from accessing the firearm without interfering with the teacher’s ability to be ready to fire on short notice?

What training for neutralizing a threat will teachers need? What takes priority — trying to get students to safety or confronting a gunman who is breaking through the door?

How will authorities be able to tell the teachers from the attacker?

It would be challenging. That's what great cultures do.

I'm not sure that armed teachers is the answer. I do know that I felt, as a principal, that I should have been armed, at least in the sense of having access to a weapon locked in my office.

...having access to a weapon locked in my office.
And if all hell breaks loose and you're nowhere near your office?

And what if a meteor falls from the sky and flattens the school? There are no perfect solutions. Perhaps having the weapon holstered at my side would be a better solution. I'm for considering anything that will prove to be a deterrent.

Yes, concealed carry.

How sad that we have come to this. To think that, decades ago, there were actually shooting classes in many schools, and yet no one seemed compelled to come in and shoot the place up.

I'm retired now, but I remember those days well. We were required to have a fire drill every month, a bad weather drill every semester, a bus evac drill once a year, and a crisis drill (shooter) once a year. We were a rural school with a two lane highway running in front. It used to concern me a great deal as to what we do once the highway filled, as it was sure to do, with the cars of panicked parents by the hundreds. How would we get emergency vehicles in. So we developed a mentality of what we would do ourselves to keep our kids safe. We had an excellent deputy on campus all day so that was good.
Lucky you for having a deputy on campus. We don’t have any security in our district. At one time, they asked us who wanted to carry a firearm at work. They were going to train a few teachers at each school, but that never happened. We know that we will have to keep our children safe. Such a sad time.

11 states allow teachers who have conceal and carry to be armed in school . What do they have in common ? No it is not red/blue divide . Illinois and Rhode Island are 2 of the blue states that permit it .

Guns in Schools | Giffords (https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/guns-in-public/guns-in-schools/)



At least 30 states and the District of Columbia allow school security
personnel to possess weapons in schools.
At least nine states allow other school employees to possess weapons in schools, typically only if they meet certain criteria.
At least 11 states allow concealed carry permit holders to possess weapons in schools.
At least 24 states give school districts or school boards the authority to decide whether they will allow weapons in school.



50-State Comparison: K-12 School Safety - Education Commission of the States (ecs.org) (https://www.ecs.org/50-state-comparison-k-12-school-safety/)

Lucky you for having a deputy on campus. We don’t have any security in our district. At one time, they asked us who wanted to carry a firearm at work. They were going to train a few teachers at each school, but that never happened. We know that we will have to keep our children safe. Such a sad time.We were a K-12 campus of about a thousand students, so a deputy was useful in many ways for us. There was the very rare occasion of having to arrest a student who would not respond to any school commands. He directed traffic at times. Just his presence on campus, and knowing that he was armed, probably prevented a number of problems. Every school should have a full-time deputy.

and the children love their resource officers . They are positive adult role models .

We were a K-12 campus of about a thousand students, so a deputy was useful in many ways for us. There was the very rare occasion of having to arrest a student who would not respond to any school commands. He directed traffic at times. Just his presence on campus, and knowing that he was armed, probably prevented a number of problems. Every school should have a full-time deputy.

Agreed. We have 900 students and we are about 6 miles from the nearest sheriff station. No on-site security.

It’s just asking for trouble. Banks go to greater measures to protect that which is far less valuable. SOMEONE needs to be armed and well trained.

And then there was Trump's performance at the NRA convention. From HuffPost --

In a bold display of disrespect, Trump bashed gun control and hailed all firearms in his Friday speech, including the kind of military-style assault weapons that killed 19 children and two teachers in a mass shooting in Uvalde last week.



Trump then mangled the pronunciation of victims’ names (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-incantation-nra-uvalde-victims-gongs-dystopia_n_62916051e4b0edd2d023e909), which he read interspersed with cheesy funeral toll sounds.

Trump wrapped up his speech smiling, with his clenched fists and wooden dance steps to the 1996 song "Hold On, I'm Coming," written by Hayes and David Porter, and performed by rhythm-and-blues duo Sam and Dave.

Instead of the Ten Commandments being posted in public buildings, this would be more effective --

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284642137_10225508895122988_2931133320544604850_n. jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=dzJzIeRHcTIAX9CNTm0&tn=ndPcuGuhXKOB62tH&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-tJBuPLV5V_UXW4sJNoFi3B6ntY_U_yJS49_NwKSxaNQ&oe=6298F43A

Trump wrapped up his speech smiling, with his clenched fists and wooden dance steps to the 1996 song "Hold On, I'm Coming," written by Hayes and David Porter, and performed by rhythm-and-blues duo Sam and Dave.
I saw Sam Moore perform with Bruce Springsteen . He sang Hold on I'm coming and Soul Man with Bruce. .It was one of the many highlights of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame concert I attended .

That 'art' is cheesy and inappropriate ... as intended no doubt .

Shame that liberal dems never seem to be concerned about black kids killed by the dozens in our major cities. I guess they don't work well in making bloody posters to stir up the emotions?

I never trust anything from the HP. It is an anti-Trump mouthpiece dedicated to liberal-dem propaganda. That being said, since you fell flat in your attempt to have Trump say we were going to inject disinfectants into people, you now shift the target to a speech to the NRA. Well, no one has ever accused him of being overly-thoughtful or well-prepared. It is his greatest weakness by far.

And to be fair, perhaps I misread your disinfectant post. You haven't made that clear, so I'm open to a little enlightenment.

Shame that liberal dems never seem to be concerned about black kids killed by the dozens in our major cities. I guess they don't work well in making bloody posters to stir up the emotions?
My research says many of the guns used come from Indiana and Texas, among other states.

I never trust anything from the HP. It is an anti-Trump mouthpiece dedicated to liberal-dem propaganda. That being said, since you fell flat in your attempt to have Trump say we were going to inject disinfectants into people, you now shift the target to a speech to the NRA. Well, no one has ever accused him of being overly-thoughtful or well-prepared. It is his greatest weakness by far.
Do a search using good keywords. It's all over the Internet and on YouTube -- his mangling of the victims' names, his little dance, his rah-rahing over guns.

And yes, that YouTube video link I posted shows Trump using the word "disinfectant" after the previous speaker's comment about bleach.

As tomder quoted from that video:

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”

Do a search using good keywords. It's all over the Internet and on YouTube -- his mangling of the victims' names, his little dance, his rah-rahing over guns.Did you not read this? "Well, no one has ever accused him of being overly-thoughtful or well-prepared. It is his greatest weakness by far." He included some foolish behavior in his speech. If you are really against that, you will begin to note the many times JB and KH do it.
As far as a search with keywords, I have finally figured out that you keep suggesting I do it because you are not actually good at it. Or at least you certainly have not demonstrated that here.


And yes, that YouTube video link I posted shows Trump using the word "disinfectants" after the previous speaker's comment about bleach.So? He also said, "...so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me." Now to any person capable of unbiased thought, it is clearly plain that he was suggesting possible avenues for research. You would be well served to drop this silly pursuit. It makes it appear that you are willing to believe anything, no matter how silly or unsupported, so long as it makes Trump look bad.

Even in your quote of Tom's post, where does he suggest we inject disinfectants or anything else. He simply inquired, "And is there a way we can do something like that..." It's called asking a question. Only in the world of the TDS afflicted does it amount to encouraging the general public to do something.

Can you not see that no one is disputing his use of "disinfectant"? The question which was described as a hoax asked this. "Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to stop covid." Please pay attention.

You post an oppositional reply on topic but can't stop yourself from twisting my words (most recently, "That being said, since you fell flat in your attempt to have Trump say we were going to inject disinfectants into people...") and then adding a personal put-down, JL. Please stop.

You fail to note, in your partial quote, that I added, "And to be fair, perhaps I misread your disinfectant post. You haven't made that clear, so I'm open to a little enlightenment." Not sure why you would omit including that.

I still have no idea what you are trying to establish. As I said above, "Can you not see that no one is disputing his use of "disinfectant"? The question which was described as a hoax asked this. "Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to stop covid." Please pay attention.

Now if you have some evidence that Trump, "suggested drinking/injecting bleach", then please post it. Otherwise, I have no idea what your point is. Your Youtube video added nothing that would shed light on that, so I just don't know why you posted it. Can you explain that in reference to, "Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to stop covid." Your Youtube link did not establish that at all, did it?

The speaker before Trump suggested bleach and other chemical remedies. When Trump spoke, he lumped them together as disinfectants that would possibly work.

Shake Comet cleanser instead of grated parmesan cheese onto your plateful of spaghetti?

Now if you have some evidence that Trump, "suggested drinking/injecting bleach", then please post it. Otherwise, I have no idea what your point is. Your Youtube video added nothing that would shed light on that, so I just don't know why you posted it. Can you explain that in reference to, "Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to stop covid." Your Youtube link did not establish that at all, did it?Well, the answer is, you have no evidence that Trump, "suggested drinking/injecting bleach." All you have is, "When Trump spoke, he lumped them together as disinfectants that would possibly work." So I don't even know why we are having this ridiculous discussion. But if you can come up with some evidence that Trump suggested, "drinking/injecting bleach," then feel free to post it. Until then, it's just another outbreak of TDS.

Glad we finally got that settled.

Trump did NOT say to drink or inject bleach! He was a follow-up speaker to a man who did. Trump instead used the word "disinfectant" (lumping bleach et al. together).

Trump did NOT say to drink or inject bleach!Like I said. Glad we finally got that settled.

Like I said. Glad we finally got that settled.
And I have said that from the get-go of this discussion.

Sure you did.

The bottom line is this. Trump never suggested the general public drink or inject anything. He was plainly talking about potential research. He never mentioned bleach.

So we finally have it settled. Wonderful, Wondergirl.

Under the thread Hoax Quiz, in Post #5, I posted a link to Trump's speech, then in Post #8, I said --

***I explicitedly avoided saying Trump used the word "bleach". He said "disinfectant". And I'm sure he had/has no clue about GI endoscopy procedures, tomder.***

Yes, which makes us all wonder what on earth your point was in posting the video. The hoax was that Trump said drink/inject bleach. He did not suggest we drink or inject anything at all. He suggested some med research. So what on earth was your point?

Yes, which makes us all wonder what on earth your point was in posting the video. The hoax was that Trump said drink/inject bleach. He did not suggest we drink or inject anything at all. He suggested some med research. So what on earth was your point?
His speech was right after the bleach-talker guy. Trump, when he spoke, nodded enthusiastically and endorsed a possible remedy involving such a disinfectant.

So he suggested a line of research? Was that wrong?

So he suggested a line of research? Was that wrong?
Science guy Trump? Yes, that was uncalled for, and at least expressed very badly.

Uncalled for?

It’s uncalled for to discuss med research? Since when?

It’s uncalled for to discuss med research? Since when?
Since he had no idea what he was talking about. And a husband and wife even took him up on his medical knowledge.

40 people shot in Chi town over the Holiday weekend 40 people in a city where handguns are illegal. Toughest gun laws in the nation . Criminals just refuse to listen to Mayor Beetlejuice.

Meanwhile Clueless made another false statement saying it was illegal to buy cannons at the time of the Framing.
And, by the way — it’s going to sound bizarre — I support the Second Amendment. You have a right. But from the very beginning, the Second Amendment didn’t say you can own any gun you want, big as you want. You couldn’t buy a cannon when, in fact, the Second Amendment passed. And certain people from the very beginning weren’t allowed to purchase guns. It’s nothing new. It’s just rational.
Remarks by President Biden Announcing Actions to Fight Gun Crime and His Nominee for ATF Director, Steve Dettelbach | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/04/11/press-briefing-by-press-secretary-jen-psaki-april-11-2022/)Last year he said "The Second Amendment, from the day it was passed, limited the type of people who could own a gun and what type of weapon you could own,"...You couldn’t buy a cannon."
Remarks by President Biden and Attorney General Garland on Gun Crime Prevention Strategy | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/06/23/remarks-by-president-biden-and-attorney-general-garland-on-gun-crime-prevention-strategy/)

During the campaign he said
From the very beginning you weren't allowed to have certain weapons. You weren't allowed to own a cannon during the Revolutionary War as an individual."

All his statements are false .

He has made false claims about the 2nd amendment for years . Federal laws restricting weapons came decades after the 2nd amendment was passed(1934) . The Framers never would've considered banning weapons.

As an example ,Privateers owned the most advanced weapons of the era . They contracted out their service . The government frequently commissioned their help .They would capture enemy ships for profit .

Biden cannot cite a single example where weapons were banned .When challenged in the past he dodged and weaved and says that there is a need today .

That is clearly debatable . What is not debatable is that his calls for bans have no historical root.

40 people shot in Chi town over the Holiday weekend 40 people in a city where handguns are illegal. Toughest gun laws in the nation . Criminals just refuse to listen to Mayor Beetlejuice. <br>
<br>
Meanwhile Clueless made another false statement saying it was illegal to buy cannons at the time of the Framing.<br>
<em>And, by the way — it’s going to sound bizarre — I support the Second Amendment. You have a right. But from the very beginning, the Second Amendment didn’t say you can own any gun you want, big as you want. You couldn’t buy a cannon when, in fact, the Second Amendment passed. And certain people from the very beginning weren’t allowed to purchase guns. It’s nothing new. It’s just rational.<br>
</em><a href="https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/04/11/press-briefing-by-press-secretary-jen-psaki-april-11-2022/" target="_blank">Remarks by President Biden Announcing Actions to Fight Gun Crime and His Nominee for ATF Director, Steve Dettelbach | The White House</a><em><br>
<br>
</em>Last year he said<em> "The Second Amendment, from the day it was passed, limited the type of people who could own a gun and what type of weapon you could own,"...You couldn’t buy a cannon."<br>
</em><a href="https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/06/23/remarks-by-president-biden-and-attorney-general-garland-on-gun-crime-prevention-strategy/" target="_blank">Remarks by President Biden and Attorney General Garland on Gun Crime Prevention Strategy | The White House</a><em><br>
</em><br>
<br>
During the campaign he said <br>
<em>From the very beginning you weren't allowed to have certain weapons. You weren't allowed to own a cannon during the Revolutionary War as an individual."<br>
<br>
</em>All his statements are false .<br><br>
He has made false claims about the 2nd amendment for years . Federal laws restricting weapons came decades after the 2nd amendment was passed . The Framers never would've considered banning weapons. <br><br>As an example ,Privateers owned the most advanced weapons of the era . They contracted out their service . The government frequently commissioned their help .They would capture enemy ships for profit . <br>
<br>
Biden cannot cite a single example where weapons were banned .When challenged in the past he dodged and weaved and says that there is a need today . <br>
<br>
That is clearly debatable . What is not debatable is that his calls for bans have no historical root.

Second Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

A militia is an informal military group under strictly local control. They ALL owned their own weapons thanks to the 2nd amendment.

A militia is an informal military group under strictly local control. They ALL owned their own weapons thanks to the 2nd amendment.
Yes. Precisely. Nothing about gun ownership by non-militia.

groan !!!

I have had this discussion a thousand times . The bill of rights are about individual liberties and what the government SHALL NOT do . Period

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." (George Mason,)

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” (Thomas Jefferson )

Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? It is feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.” (Tench Coxe)

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed ― unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” (James Madison)

The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”(Joseph Story)

Yes. The militia was formed of armed citizens. It assumes the right of free people to be armed.

Since he had no idea what he was talking about.Just anti-Trump rhetoric. He didn't claim to have any great knowledge. He simply suggested something.

Just anti-Trump rhetoric. He didn't claim to have any great knowledge. He simply suggested something.
That's pretty much what I said:

"Since he had no idea what he was talking about."

That's pretty much what I said:

"Since he had no idea what he was talking about."But you have no idea of what he knew, so you really can't say that. It was just anti-Trump rhetoric, pure and simple.

Correct . One can assume that Trump was privy to information that we are not aware of .It was also premature to make the suggestion if such things were in preliminary research phase . He did not have the technical expertise or a complete understanding to express it in a way that wouldn't be mocked . Clearly all options were on the table at the time As an example ,Thimerosal is a disinfectant that is used in vaccines as a preservative . (although it is being phased out because of irrational fears about mercury). Whatever research on the issue related to the covid pandemic would've been in a very preliminary stage.
UVa exposure is very effective . When I was involved in the production of sterile products ,the final step of gowning before entering a sterile work environment was to walk through a chamber that was lit by UV . There is a company that has been doing studies of inserting tubes with UVa light into the lungs .

The ruling class has a simple answer to the moral decay that leads to gun violence. Their solution? Take away the rights of law-abiding citizens and give themselves more power over the people. As with most benevolent despots, they do this for our own good. BTW who or what is guilty of the greatest mass murders in world history? Of course; it is governments . Historically weapon bans have been the prelude to such violence.

The Ten Commandments were not posted on line by Robb Elementary shooter Ramos. The Ten Commandments were not posted on line by Payton Gendron ,the Buffalo shooter in his manifesto . I searched and I could find no instance where one of these shooters posted the Ten Commandments . <sarc> So of course the Ten Commandments should be banned , Makes sense to me </sarc>

The goals of liberal dems are becoming clearer. President Biden hinted around at a ban on some types of handguns yesterday.


"They said a .22-caliber bullet will lodge in the lung, and we can probably get it out — may be able to get it and save the life. A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body," Biden said.

"So, the idea of these high-caliber weapons is, uh, there’s simply no rational basis for it in terms of self-protection, hunting," Biden added. "Remember, the Constitution was never absolute."

There are many in the fed gov that would be thrilled if we were all limited to 22 caliber weapons.

Justin Trudeau, never one to let a crisis go to waste, went much further. His goal is clearly to have a disarmed populace in Canada, completely subservient to the government.


Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced Monday that his government is introducing legislation to "implement national freeze on handgun ownership" throughout the country.
"What this means is that it will no longer be possible to buy, sell, transfer or import handguns anywhere in Canada," Trudeau said at a press conference.
"We recognize that the vast majority of gun owners use them safely and in accordance with the law, but other than using firearms for sport shooting and hunting, there is no reason anyone in Canada should need guns in their everyday lives."The almighty government has spoken.

I find I am often correcting misconceptions in my discussions about gun rights. As I previously noted, Clueless is frequently wrong in his declarations. Yet he can make laws by fiat that would restrict the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens. He said this .....a 9mm bullet will blow a “lung out of the body.”

A 9mm is a powerful round . No doubt about it . It is popular with law enforcement and with conceal and carry folks . In truth it is one of the smallest rounds . It is effective . But it does not blow out body organs . Clueless made that up out of whole cloth .

He is not alone .Patricia Eddington, a former state legislator from NY sponsored a bill against ammo (heat seeking bullets ) .She said in a video presentation that "Some of these bullets, as you saw, have an incendiary device on the tip of it, which is a heat-seeking device. So, you don’t shoot deer with a bullet that size. If you do, you could cook it at the same time "

Heat Seeking Bullets - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRQqieimwLQ)

Bring your fork and knife to the deer hunt .Shoot and cook your dinner at the same time ! .

Thomas Binger, the prosecuting attorney in the Rittenhouse case. He made uninformed comments about hollow point bullets . The judge had to correct him .He said they explode on impact as if they were a grenade. They expand on impact .They don't explode. At one point he ;ala Alex Baldwin, picked up a rifle with his finger on the trigger and aimed it at trial attendees
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEUc8iwXEAQfgAk?format=jpg&name=small

Senior Senator Dianne Feinstein said
We have federal regulations and state laws that prohibit hunting ducks with more than three rounds. And yet it’s legal to hunt humans with 15-round, 30-round, even 150-round magazines.

Actually hunting humans is not legal with any round .But there is a legal way to kill humans . It is called abortion.

These are people who presumably know the facts .

"Some of these bullets, as you saw, have an incendiary device on the tip of it, which is a heat-seeking device. So, you don’t shoot deer with a bullet that size. If you do, you could cook it at the same time "The ignorance of these people is appalling. Either they are genuinely stupid, or they are engaged in a campaign of national propaganda. And in your video the reporter, ever compliant, never bothered to check the silly assertion. Ten minutes on the internet would have shown her that there is no such thing as a heat seeking rifle bullet.

One note. The Eddington video, I'm pretty sure, is from 2008 or so.

But you have no idea of what he knew, so you really can't say that. It was just anti-Trump rhetoric, pure and simple.
He has shown us who he is and, by his words, what he knows.

I would agree with that. We had the best economy we had in many a year with record low unemployment. On top of that, he appointed 3 SCOTUS justices, and now they are set to reverse, hopefully, the most unjust, unconstitutional decision every rendered. So yeah, he has shown how smart he is. You are exactly right.

So the shooter walks unobstructed into an unlocked door of the school .

When asked about the possibiliy of hardening schools so they would not be such a soft target ,Clueless; press Sec Karine Jean-Pierre said ;

“I know there’s been conversation about hardening schools,” “That is not something that he believes in. He believes that we should be able to give teachers the resources to be able to do the job that they’re meant to do at schools.”

You see ;the single objective they take from this tragedy is the chance to keep guns from law abiding citizens . No other remedy is on the table.

"That is not something that he believes in."

I'm still waiting to see any proposal for gun control that will stop these terrible shootings. Stopping the sales of "assault weapons" will not stop them. Stopping the sales of 9mm handguns will not stop them. The only hope I see is to make schools more secure and for all of us to do a better job of keeping our eyes and ears open. This latest shooter broadcast his intentions on social media but no one reported it. The police response was very poor. Considering that he had been shooting before he entered, the school response seems curiously inadequate. We are just going to have to accept that we are living in a world with a substantial number of mentally ill people who are not being treated and consider life to be cheap.

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/281633940_10227572390958555_7736489007173708463_n. jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=9KGmEOtRt8wAX98Sebk&_nc_ht=scontent.fmem1-2.fna&oh=00_AT9wvKuv6jbK8KWCep60H8GoHgk-aTuHvnxwzC9P60pzTw&oe=629BE7DC

So the shooter walks unobstructed into an unlocked door of the school .
...that was propped open (to catch a breeze?).

1. This latest shooter broadcast his intentions on social media but no one reported it.
2. The police response was very poor.
3. Considering that he had been shooting before he entered, the school response seems curiously inadequate.

And you're wondering what to do about mentally ill people? as you said, "We are just going to have to accept that we are living in a world with a substantial number of mentally ill people who are not being treated and consider life to be cheap."

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/281633940_10227572390958555_7736489007173708463_n. jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=9KGmEOtRt8wAX98Sebk&_nc_ht=scontent.fmem1-2.fna&oh=00_AT9wvKuv6jbK8KWCep60H8GoHgk-aTuHvnxwzC9P60pzTw&oe=629BE7DC
Nope, those weren't the secrets to no school shootings. We had two-parent families, parents who were concerned with morals and taught their kids right from wrong, no internet or even tv (OR shoot-'em-up video games), and a much smaller population.

We had two-parent families, parents who were concerned with morals and taught their kids right from wrong, no internet or even tv (OR shoot-'em-up video games), and a much smaller population.With the exception of the last comment about population which carries little meaning, I agree with all of the above. Unlike you, I don't see it as an either/or. I think the two compliment each other. Also unlike you, I am all in favor of a great national campaign to honor and encourage the two-parent family.


And you're wondering what to do about mentally ill people? as you said, "We are just going to have to accept that we are living in a world with a substantial number of mentally ill people who are not being treated and consider life to be cheap."I'm open to suggestions. Just bear in mind that increased fed funding is not the answer. The feds can't pay for the budget now.

With the exception of the last comment about population which carries little meaning, I agree with all of the above.
A smaller population is more controllable, more in sync with each other. The US population was more than half as much in 1950 as it is now.

Unlike you, I don't see it as an either/or. I think the two compliment each other.
What either/or? What two?

Also unlike you, I am all in favor of a great national campaign to honor and encourage the two-parent family.
Unlike me? (Why the preoccupation with bashing me in addition to posting a disagreement and your own pov?)

Another part of the problem is identifying especially teens and young adults (plus anyone older) who has an emotional or mental problem, then lead then to professional treatment.

Another part of the problem is that, once a patient has been on meds for awhile and feels better (no matter what is wrong physically or mentally), that patient may say, "Hey, I feel so much better! I don't need this med any longer" and doesn't take it as prescribed, or worse, stops taking it, not realizing that med has made the difference. Within a short time, the problems begin again and the patient is back to square one.

What either/or? What two?Your observation about family and mine about prayer/Bible.

Unlike me? (Why the preoccupation with bashing me in addition to posting a disagreement and your own pov?)I was not bashing you. I've asked you before if you were in agreement with a call for a return to two parent families. You've always passed on it. Perhaps you have now changed your mind.

As to mental illness, your observations are no doubt accurate, but they do not present a solution.


A smaller population is more controllable, more in sync with each other.More in sync? I don't think so. Were we more in sync in 1860?

I was not bashing you. I've asked you before if you were in agreement with a call for a return to two parent families. You've always passed on it. Perhaps you have now changed your mind.
I've always been in favor of two-parent families. One-parent CAN work out, but it will take a lot more work and community involvement.

As to mental illness, your observations are no doubt accurate, but they do not present a solution.
I didn't offer a solution, just another aspect that is rarely mentioned.

More in sync? I don't think so. Were we more in sync in 1860?
In the 1950s, yes, we were. I lived in a southern city, in the Applachian hills, and in a rural community in the northeast. Plus made lengthy visits to a western state and to the Midwest to see relatives. People were pretty much in sync and cooperative, no mass murders like now.

I've always been in favor of two-parent families. One-parent CAN work out, but it will take a lot more work and community involvement.Then we agree.


In the 1950s, yes, we were.We were as out of sync in race relations as we ever were. We had a pres assassinated and a very unpopular war in the sixties. Just don't agree with you on that one. Besides, the pop was much smaller in 1860 and very much out of sync. Your theory doesn't hold true.

We were as out of sync in race relations as we ever were. We had a pres assassinated and a very unpopular war in the sixties. Just don't agree with you on that one. Besides, the pop was much smaller in 1860 and very much out of sync. Your theory doesn't hold true.
I'm talking about mass murders, not race relations. No president was assassinated during the 1950s. That unpopular war was in the sixties, as you said. Check the stats. No mass murders during the 1950s.

You said smaller pops tend to be more in sync. I pointed out that is not true. 1860 demonstrates that.

The Native Americans would counter you by stating the year of being out of sync as 1620.

You're the one who's been countered.

At least we do agree that we need to return to the two parent family. That's progress, I think.

You're the one who's been countered.
You countered me and basically said I'm wrong.

Yep. That's about it. If smaller pops are more in sync, then we should have been wildly in sync in 1860. That was not the case.

Still, we have agreed on something. That's historical.

Or hysterical!

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by tomder55 https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?p=3881157#post3881157)
So the shooter walks unobstructed into an unlocked door of the school .



...that was propped open (to catch a breeze?)

Easily solved by having a security system that identifies when a door is opened unauthorized. This is the same argument used against border control .If there is the slightest possibility that a system can be breached then it should not be tried . That is nonsense and a symptom of people who strive for utopia .Perfect is an illusion . Strive for good enough.

It gives me no pleasure in suggesting that schools should be hardened . But I'd rather that than defenseless kids becoming prey to demented people bent on murder . Hardening schools ,armed school employees is a deterrent .

The marauders look for vulnerable targets . That is why they attack schools in so called "gun free zones " rather than police stations .Mass shooters don't pick schools because they want to engage in a fair fight .They pick schools because they are the easiest targets . When a person bent on murder sees a sign that says the school is a gun free zone it is an open invitation to the person .

Maybe if more incidents like this were sensational headlines for days people would understand the effectiveness of having deterrence .

'Heroic' resource officer hailed for stopping armed teen at high school, saving lives - ABC News (go.com) (https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-confronts-armed-man-illinois-high-school/story?id=55204700)



Great Mills High School Shooting: Injuries Reported In Maryland Shooting : The Two-Way : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/20/595161163/shooting-reported-at-maryland-high-school)

Doors in schools should only be opened from the inside and used mostly for emergency evacuation .Access to the school should only be through an armed guarded entrance. It is that simple . Spare me the talk about the rare times that system may be breached .

Let's simplify it . Fatherlessness is by far the biggest contributor to social ills in America. The rise in fatherlessness is an unintended or intended natural outcome of progressive social policies .

Minimal or no father involvement, whether due to divorce, death, or imprisonment, is common to Adam Lanza, Elliott Rodgers, Dylan Roof and Stephen Paddock.
In the case of 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz, he was adopted at birth. His adoptive dad died when Nikolas was much younger, and doubtless the challenges of this fatherlessness was compounded by the death of his adoptive mom three and a half months ago.
The rate of mass shootings has tripled since 2011. We blame guns, violence in the media, violence in video games, and poor family values. Each is a plausible player. But our daughters live in the same homes, with the same access to the same guns, video games, and media, and are raised with the same family values. Our daughters are not killing. Our sons are.
But boys with significant father involvement are not doing these shootings. Without dads as role models, boys’ testosterone is not well channeled. The boy experiences a sense of purposelessness, a lack of boundary enforcement, rudderlessness, and often withdraws into video games and video porn. At worst, when boys’ testosterone is not well-channeled by an involved dad, boys become among the world’s most destructive forces. When boys’ testosterone is well channeled by an involved dad, boys become among the world’s most constructive forces. ('The Boy Crisis Why Our Boys Are Struggling and What We Can Do About It ' by Warren Farrell and John Gray)

Farrell and Gray identify 4 crises that boys face: education, physical health,economic health, mental health .All 4 problems can be traced to a lack of a father in their lives .
Father Absence Statistics (fatherhood.org) (https://www.fatherhood.org/father-absence-statistic#:~:text=There%20is%20a%20father%20absenc e,social%20ills%20facing%20America%20today.)

It is a problem for girls too . 85% of those incarcerated grew up in fatherless homes . But it seems to have a greater impact on boys . Before age 9, boys and girls commit suicide equally," By age 10 to 14, it is 2x the amount for boys. Between 15 and 19, it is 4x times the amount, and by ages 18 to 24, it is6x the amount according to Ferrell.

To make it even worse ,most teachers are females so the boys are not getting the male role model outside of school .For some they find the male role model in gangs they join. For some it is in a fantasy world of violent video games .

It is a problem for girls too . 85% of those incarcerated grew up in fatherless homes . But it seems to have a greater impact on boys . Before age 9, boys and girls commit suicide equally," By age 10 to 14, it is 2x the amount for boys. Between 15 and 19, it is 4x times the amount, and by ages 18 to 24, it is6x the amount according to Ferrell.

To make it even worse ,most teachers are females so the boys are not getting the male role model outside of school .For some they find the male role model in gangs they join. For some it is in a fantasy world of violent video games .Pretty compelling evidence for those willing to be unbiased in their evaluation of it.

Terrific post, tomder! And I totally agree about gangs and that boys/young men join them, looking for father figures to emulate.

How about this?


Easily solved by having a security system that identifies when a door is opened unauthorized. This is the same argument used against border control .If there is the slightest possibility that a system can be breached then it should not be tried . That is nonsense and a symptom of people who strive for utopia .Perfect is an illusion . Strive for good enough.

It gives me no pleasure in suggesting that schools should be hardened . But I'd rather that than defenseless kids becoming prey to demented people bent on murder . Hardening schools ,armed school employees is a deterrent .

Ted Cruz firmly maintains that every grade school should have only one entrance/exit door. Like me, do you see a problem with that?

How many mass murders have been committed by females? (Yes, I know what you're going to say, JL.)

But how about the question I just asked about Tom's comments on school security? Are you on board for that? I asked because several days ago you described it as, "impossible".

I don't think one entry/exit door is practicable, but a lot can be done in that regard. It would be especially difficult in case of a fire, and also with older buildings. With new construction it could be possible.

You would first have to define what a "female" is. Ask Judge Jackson for help with that.

But how about the question I just asked about Tom's comments on school security? Are you on board for that? I asked because several days ago you described it as, "impossible".
Our doors to the outside had alarms on them that would blare when the doors were opened and that could be turned off/deactivated by personnel who knew the code.

I don't think one entry/exit door is practicable, but a lot can be done in that regard. It would be especially difficult in case of a fire, and also with older buildings. With new construction it could be possible.
Good luck getting 250 students out of a burning two-story school that has only one door to the outside..

You would first have to define what a "female" is. Ask Judge Jackson for help with that.
As I said in Post #167...

Remind me.I just did. But to be clear, https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=849329&page=3&p=3881019#post3881019


As I said in Post #167...Conservatives tend to know the definition. It's liberals who struggle with it.

I just did. But to be clear, https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=849329&page=3&p=3881019#post3881019

Conservatives tend to know the definition. It's liberals who struggle with it.
I was still working on my post that you too quickly responded to. Please go back and read what I had added.

Nah. You said it was impossible to make them as secure as possible. Live with it.

Tom's comment is entirely appropriate.


This is the same argument used against border control .If there is the slightest possibility that a system can be breached then it should not be tried . That is nonsense and a symptom of people who strive for utopia .Perfect is an illusion . Strive for good enough.

Nah. You said it was impossible to make them as secure as possible. Live with it.
A student comes to school with a loaded handgun. School is no longer secure.

For the third time.


Perfect is an illusion . Strive for good enough.I put it this way. "Make our schools as secure as possible." I lock my house at night, but a determined crook could get in. It would still be stupid for me to not lock my doors. Why? "Perfect is an illusion."

Tell me the mass shooting incident where students are subject to routine or even random metal detector screening. Yes it is not perfect . NYC has thousands of students randomly going through detectors . Weapons have been found , The utopia crowd would argue that the stats show that only 1 in some 23,000 scans produces a weapon. In other words ,it works because of the deterrence value.

4.5 billion people travel by air world wide annually .After 9-11 ,enhanced screening was deployed . It was a pain in the a$$ causing long screening lines . Now going through the same screening at the airport causes small delays at best .Some people have either accidently or intentionally attempted to bring weapons on planes . For all we know some have made it on planes . But ;because of the security deployed not one plane has been brought down by a terrorist hijacking since. Passengers almost universally accept the inconvenience . I hope we are not saying the lives of children at school are less valuable than airline passengers .

Two letters to the editor in today's Tribune --

1. Sources of children’s distress

"Dr. Sabreen Akhter writes a moving account in the May 30 paper about the work she does in her emergency room trying to help distressed kids (“I see distressed kids come into my ER. I wonder about their paths — and my son’s.”). At the end of the op-ed, she offers some reasons for this apparent epidemic of distress, such as guns, racism and mental health disinvestment. While not discounting these, I would offer a few others: the many evils of social media, the crisis in the American family (far too many one-parent households), the decline of religion, the disappearance of what are often called societal guardrails (norms, rules of behavior), and a dramatic loss of faith in institutions and leaders.

To put it another way, one has a sense that society is, in too many ways, coming apart. This affects all of us, of course, but especially kids."

2. One solution to gun problem

"I guess I’m what you’d call a gun guy. I have raised all my children around guns and with more morals than the government. I can’t stop the senseless murders, and I don’t believe war is a solution to any problem. I don’t have an answer for that, but what I do have is a good idea that my gun friends and I have all talked about, so here it is. My solution to part of the gun problem is simple. All ammunition should be sold only through the local police department, and proper identification and a hand scan would be needed to purchase. The police would not add fees or taxes to the manufacturer’s asking price. No municipalities could add a dollar to the price. Ammunition could not be taxed.

Only a criminal would worry about a hand scan. If somebody gives you that as a reason, look twice.

I would also laser-engrave a number on each casing, so you can tell where they came from.

Honest hunters and shooters don’t worry about stuff like that."

To put it another way, one has a sense that society is, in too many ways, coming apart. This affects all of us, of course, but especially kids."Sadly true. One need look no further than abortion. "Kid's an inconvenience, so kill it and let's move on." Thus we have over 900,000 kids a year whose lives are snuffed out.

The ammo idea is not good. Reloads would be an easy way around that. Besides, adding yet another layer of likely inefficient and certainly costly bureaucracy is not the answer. It would be just the first step in the Swiss "solution".

Thanks, JL. I was hoping you would comment.

Since the other liberal dems have fled the scene, then your options for replies are pretty limited.

Since the other liberal dems have fled the scene, then your options for replies are pretty limited.
I'm a Republican. And I especially wanted to read your opinion about the ammo ideas. I hope Tom weighs in too.

Voting liberal dem about 99% of the time makes you a liberal dem.

Voting liberal dem about 99% of the time makes you a liberal dem.
How do you know what I vote?

By who you support on this site.

I vote for a person, not a political party.

Well...most people vote for persons since you have very little alternative.

No, many vote a straight party ticket, not for specific individuals who are running.

2. One solution to gun problem

"I guess I’m what you’d call a gun guy. I have raised all my children around guns and with more morals than the government. I can’t stop the senseless murders, and I don’t believe war is a solution to any problem. I don’t have an answer for that, but what I do have is a good idea that my gun friends and I have all talked about, so here it is. My solution to part of the gun problem is simple. All ammunition should be sold only through the local police department, and proper identification and a hand scan would be needed to purchase. The police would not add fees or taxes to the manufacturer’s asking price. No municipalities could add a dollar to the price. Ammunition could not be taxed.

Only a criminal would worry about a hand scan. If somebody gives you that as a reason, look twice.

I would also laser-engrave a number on each casing, so you can tell where they came from.

Honest hunters and shooters don’t worry about stuff like that."



Yeah honest hunters should be ok with having their constitutional rights abridged by the government . It is the same bogus argument that says if people have nothing to hide then why are they concerned about illegal police surveillance ?

The rest of the suggestion comes down to prohibition arguments. Be it booze drugs guns ,illegal alternatives are always available . And I'll say it clear. People who support open borders should not complain about illegal weapons and drugs.

This is what I think . Gun supporters already make a serious concession to the gun control crowd by not objecting to gun registration . The biggest reason for the 2nd amendment was to prevent government from disarming Americans . Having a government database of gun owners is a serious step in favor of the government that would attempt disarming the populace.

But isn't it supposed to be the militia members who have the guns, not just anybody? Not everyone is a militia member.

People who support open borders should not complain about illegal weapons and drugs.Exactly correct.


But isn't it supposed to be the militia members who have the guns, not just anybody? Not everyone is a militia member.Militias were local, informal groups of citizens who, when needed, would band together for self defense in emergencies. The whole idea rested upon a free and armed citizenry. So no, it is not militia members only who would have the guns since militias, frequently, did not have "members". The founding fathers were very clear on the issue of an armed citizenry.

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

comment # 130 :




groan !!!

I have had this discussion a thousand times . The bill of rights are about individual liberties and what the government SHALL NOT do . Period

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." (George Mason,)

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” (Thomas Jefferson )

Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? It is feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.” (Tench Coxe)

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed ― unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” (James Madison)

The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”(Joseph Story)

It is hard to get people to pay attention.

Tench Coxe was a delegate to the convention from PA. He said in the quote provided that the weapons referred to by the Second Amendment comprised “every other terrible implement of the soldier.” This flies in the face of Clueless' misquote of Scalia Thursday night . Clueless misquote was "It was Justice Scalia who wrote, and I quote: ‘Like most rights, the right Second Amendment — the rights granted by the Second Amendment are not unlimited.’ Not unlimited. It never has been.”

Scalia's quote from the Heller decision was “the right secured by the Second Amendment.

Scalia was saying correctly that the only way the people could secure their rights is by the right to bear arms .It is not secured by the good faith of the government because so often it is government that tries to take away liberty .


Clueless also falsely claims that the gun industry is the only one that has liability protection. More nonsense. Can you sue GM if a drunk driver plows into you while driving a Chevy ? Of course not because it is the action of the person driving the car that is responsible and not the car manufacturer.

Contrary to what many might think, violent crime has fallen dramatically since 1990. The population has increased by about 30% since then, but murders, aggravated assault, and violent crime in general are down dramatically.

https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm#:~:text=%20%20%20Year%20%20%20Populati on%20,%20%203%2C450%2C700%20%2017%20more%20rows%20

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285126405_322021876783388_1208775898168402496_n.jp g?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=zE0dNx54bkwAX9N28X4&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8Iff8C5hYErPsd9N0LwbfrDTeUnbVeIRK33Bva4Pmq OQ&oe=629FE495

It is hard to get people to pay attention.

The vast, vast, vast majority of those deaths were from handguns. Banning so called "assault weapons" will do practically nothing to make a dent in that number. So what do you propose we do?

ammonium nitrate is simple chemistry. react ammonia with nitric acid in water and then evaporate the water. The caveat is that it is very dangerous to make it. btw common cold packs you buy in the store contain ammonium nitrate and or urea; another chemical used in explosives .

Alert warns of cold packs used for explosives - Emergency Medical Services (virginia.gov) (https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/emergency-medical-services/news-features/alert-warns-of-cold-packs-used-for-explosives/)

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285964893_713093163239314_2174857428151558150_n.jp g?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=QEWytfzAQgEAX_7vn7j&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT-G11ZmzKzZWHtgENKvE4_y8uuobiJqba1mVkUbUu-oyQ&oe=62A16C88

We wouldn't have modern agriculture without ammonium nitrate. It is used by the millions of tons every year. Farmers used to mix it with fuel oil to make a sort of "farmers dynamite". When I was taking freshman chem in college, my textbook had the directions for making the stuff. That's how innocent a time we lived in. It was 1972.

I'd still love to know what liberal dems (or liberal repubs) propose to do in order to make any really serious difference in gun violence. A ban on the sale of "assault weapons" will do very little.

I'll give another history example, as I am burdened by history.

The semi-automatic rifle .......1907 the Winchester Model 1907 is born ;a semi-automatic, high powered centerfire rifle, with a detachable, high capacity magazine.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/media/fbydrzeh/win1907_imfdb.jpg?width=552&height=123
Yes it looks like a rifle but acted very much like the modern day AR brand rifles. They could be purchased in a Sears Catalogue. American consumers were using them while the US military was still being issued bolt action single shot rifles . T
(fast-firing Winchesters dated back to 1866)

The biggest difference between this and today's rifles is the black plastic stock which makes todays rifles much lighter .
It was not an assault weapon or a weapon of war until the US Army adopted it and converted it to full automatic 40 years after it had already been safely owned by civilian .

What has changed since then is the values of people that we have already discussed many times. There is where the fix is needed .

A ban on the sale of "assault weapons" will do very little.
Which countries have no gun violence, mass shootings? Why not?

Israel has no school shootings. They have armed security at every school.

Switzerland has very little gun violence despite the fact that most of the homes have an assault weapon in the house. Out of wedlock birth rate is 20% compared to 35% here.

I'd still love to know what liberal dems (or liberal repubs) propose to do in order to make any really serious difference in gun violence. A ban on the sale of "assault weapons" will do very little.

England/the UK? Canada? India? Vietnam?

You answer my question and I'll answer yours.

I'd still love to know what liberal dems (or liberal repubs) propose to do in order to make any really serious difference in gun violence. A ban on the sale of "assault weapons" will do very little.

More than 50 people killed in 'vile and satanic' attack on Nigerian Catholic Church
https://www.foxnews.com/world/dozens-slain-satanic-attack-nigerian-church

I'm not a liberal anything.

Yeah. You're a lib. And one who doesn't care to answer serious questions.

I'd still love to know what liberal dems (or liberal repubs) propose to do in order to make any really serious difference in gun violence. A ban on the sale of "assault weapons" will do very little.

No, I'm not. Are you being confrontational again to drive me away? It's working. Please stick to the discussion.

There is no discussion since you are unwilling to answer questions and insist upon denying a most obvious truth. If you really want a discussion, then here is the question for the fourth time. I altered it somewhat to make you more comfortable.

I'd still love to know what Wondergirl proposes to do in order to make any really serious difference in gun violence. A ban on the sale of "assault weapons" will do very little.

WG has no say in the matter.

My adult son was watching "Duncanville" (an adult animated sitcom) last night. Duncan (age 15) and his younger sibs, along with other children, enjoyed (!!!!!) time at "Teen Zone" where the kids played laser tag, shooting at each other with fake guns.

I almost threw up.

From the Babylon Bee.

49361

I guess I should point out that the cartoon has to do with the inaccurate comments by Biden and nothing to do with the tragedy at Uvalde.

From recent polling.


In light of taking potential gun control measures to protect schools, 62 percent said that they are in favor of having armed guards stationed at all schools, while 51 percent said they support giving teachers and school administrators the "option of being armed at school."


The Economist/YouGov poll (https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/o91vu7bpkr/econTabReport.pdf), which surveyed 1,500 American adults between May 28 and 31, found that 51 percent agree with the statement that "school shootings are a mental health problem, not a guns problem."

Bringing the Repub surrender on Red Flag laws back to a gun related posting .

Turns out the deal may be dead . There is disagreement about Gun Confiscation Orders (GCOs) .

Gun deal in jeopardy after senators fail to agree on text - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/16/senate-gun-deal-text/)

Yeah text . Hastily written feel good legislation frequently have bad text that turns well intentioned into an assault on the rights of the law abiding .

"There's compelling evidence that the law enforcement response to the attack at Robb Elementary was an abject failure and antithetical to everything we've learned over the last two decades since the Columbine massacre"

"Three minutes after the subject entered the west building, there was a sufficient number of armed officers wearing body armor to isolate, distract, and neutralize the subject."

"The only thing stopping the hallway of dedicated officers from entering room 111 and 112 was the on-scene commander who decided to place the lives of officers before the lives of children"

"The officers had weapons, the children had none," "The officers had body armor, the children had none. The officers had training, the subject had none."

"One hour, 14 minutes, and 8 seconds — that's how long the children waited, and the teachers waited, in room 111 to be rescued,". "And while they waited, the on-scene commander waited for a radio, and rifles, then he waited for shields, then he waited for SWAT. Lastly, he waited for a key that was never needed,"

"The post-Columbine doctrine is clear, and compelling, and unambiguous," "Stop the killing, stop the dying."

(Testimony by Steve McCraw, the director of Texas' Department of Public Safety to a special Texas Senate committee yesterday )
ting Response an "Abject Failure" | C-SPAN.org (https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5020643/texas-public-safety-chief-calls-uvalde-school-shooting-response-abject-failure)

There were many mistakes made, the propped-open door being one of the biggest.

14 Repubs sign on to the new .improved compromise of gun rights bill. It looks like they made a lame attempt to protect due process . But if falls short of a guarantee of 2nd Amendment rights .

From the text there must be at a minimum ;

pre-deprivation and post deprivation due process rights that prevent any violation or infringement of the Constitution of the United States, including but not limited to the Bill of Rights, and the substantive or procedural due process rights guaranteed under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, as applied to the States, and as interpreted by State courts and United States courts (including the Supreme Court of the United States). Such programs must include, at the appropriate phase to prevent any violation of constitutional rights, at minimum, notice, the right to an in-person hearing, an unbiased adjudicator, the right to know opposing evidence, the right to present evidence, and the right to confront adverse witnesses;

OLL22583 (senate.gov) (https://www.murphy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/bipartisan_safer_communities_act_text.pdf)

(It is 80 pages long in legalese text . Good luck reading it and all the references to other laws . )

The bill insists on the right to council .But the government doesn't have to pay . In other words ,most of the people flagged for red flag restrictions will probably not have the financial means to pay for their own lawyer . But without the means to get a lawyer to help defend rights ;rights barely exist . That is why it is specified in Miranda that if someone can't afford a lawyer that the government will provide one . To me this is a key weakness in this bill.


The bill also allows for the unsealing of juvenal records of those applying for a gun under the age of 21 . I think that is an acceptable compromise .

Recent mass shootings, including those at a Texas elementary school and a New York supermarket, have renewed public attention on President Joe Biden’s views on gun control. An array of recent Facebook posts are spotlighting one quote in particular from decades ago.

“During my twelve-and-a-half years as a member of this body, I have never believed that additional gun control or federal registration of guns would reduce crime,” read part of a quote attributed to then-Sen. Biden in a June 7 Facebook post that was shared more than 1,500 times in less than a week. Other versions of the claim spread widely across the social media platform.

Biden did make this comment during debate over gun legislation in a 1985 Senate floor session. He has gone on to advocate for gun control measures including a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.


https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/fact-check-biden-once-said-220318331.html

Over the course of 5 decades of public service incompetence you can find he has made contradictory statements on most positions he has taken. My all time favorite one was about not needing semi-automatic rifles because double barrel shotguns are more of a deterrence. They make louder blasts . Fire two blasts into the air .He allegedly gave this advice to Jill Biden . A double barrel shotgun has one heck of a recoil. It would probably dislocate her shoulder .

Career politician. Say what makes the most people happy.

Interesting SC decision today. New York cannot prohibit concealed carry because the applicant cannot demonstrate a personal danger. I don't know how far that opens the door, but it would seem to be common sense that an otherwise law-abiding person should be able to carry a gun concealed. The real target here should be the mentally ill, serious criminals, gang bangers, and anyone else who can be demonstrated to be unfit to carry to a weapon.

i lived in NY pen for years . They abuse gun rights as much as any state including the absurdity of my county banning all gun discharge . There was no hunting permitted even though the county was teaming with all types of wild life. That made a criminal technically of many people I knew who would hunt on their own property . The question always is do all these gun laws make it safer ? More than 2 dozen people were shot in NY on the weekend that the end of slavery was celebrated .

One would think that the right to keep and bear arms would automatically lead to the right to discharge such weapons. Otherwise, what would be the point of having them?

Discharge them whenever? And at whomever?

yes very broad restrictions . In my county guns could be used in supervised ranges . It did not stop anything . Gun violence still happened and there were many otherwise legal gun owners who became "criminal" by shooting game and doing target practice on their own property .

You mean the criminals didn't stop and think, "Wait a minute. I can't rob this convenience store. After all, the gun I'm using might need discharging, and that's against the law. I'll have to just watch a ballgame instead?"

I can see laws against discharging a firearm in a crowded city, but such laws in a rural area is just ridiculous.

C. Thomas put it pretty well.


"We know of no other constitutional rights that an individual may exercise only after demonstrating to government officers some special need," Justice Clarence Thomas noted in the majority opinion. "That is not how the First Amendment works when it comes to unpopular speech or the free exercise of religion. It is not how the Sixth Amendment works when it comes to a defendant's right to confront the witnesses against him. And it is not how the Second Amendment works when it comes to public carry for self-defense."

Another well stated opinion by Justice Thomas .

I can't really understand the Americans, but many people in Europe feel the same way. Why are they so insistent on their guns??? Does it really make you feel better or freer?
To prevent school massacre teachers should be armed...how sick is that???

The law overturned was the 1911 Sullivan Act. it was aimed specifically at disarming Italian Americans . It was named after Tammany Hall operative Tim Sullivan . Fellow law officer Bat Masterson called the law "obnoxious " and questioned Sullivan's sanity .

The 1st person convicted was an Italian American named Marino Rossi . He was travelling and had a hand gun for protection against Italian American mobsters . The NY Slimes called his arrest a "warning to the Italian community" both "timely and exemplary "

The following is transcript of a Tucker Carlson monologue that I saw this morning . I think he nails it so I will post the part where he links mass shootings to over prescription of psychotropic drugs .
They're numbed by the endless psychotropic drugs that are handed out in every school in the country by crackpots posing as counselors and of course, they're angry. They know that their lives will not be better than their parents. They'll be worse. That's all but guaranteed. They know that. They're not that stupid and yet, the authorities in their lives, mostly women, never stops lecturing them about their so-called privilege. You're male. You're privileged. Imagine that. Try to imagine an unhealthier, unhappier life than that

So, a lot of young men in America are going nuts. Are you surprised? And by the way, a shockingly large number of them have been prescribed psychotropic drugs by their doctors, SSRI or antidepressants and that would include quite a few mass shooters and keep in mind, again, these drugs are meant to prevent crazy behavior and yet there seems to be a connection.

Eric Harris, the columbine killer was on Zoloft and Luvox. A year earlier, a 15-year-old called Kip Kinkel shot his parents and dozens of classmates. He was on Prozac. In 2005, a 16-year-old called Jeff Weise killed his grandfather and ten kids in Minnesota. He was on Prozac, too. So was 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak who murdered six people at Northern Illinois University. In 2012, you may recall when 25-year-old James Holmes walked into a movie theater and shot 82 people. He was on Zoloft.

The list goes on and on and on and on. It includes the shooter at the Washington Navy Yard in 2013. That would be 34-year-old Aaron Alexis. It also includes Dylan Roof. He's the 21-year-old who shot up the church in Charleston. Now, he was apparently a racist, and we've heard a lot about that. Fine, but we've heard next to nothing about the fact that he was taking SSRIs, he and many, many others. You're not supposed to notice, but some have.

The Journal of Political Psychology once assembled a list of dozens more mass killings, all committed by young people, young men on prescription drugs. So, is there a connection? Well, we don't know definitively. We do know there are a whole lot more of these drugs being taken by kids than ever before and by the entire population. Who's not taking some prescription medication at this point? Between 1991 and 2018, total SSRI prescriptions in the United States rose by more than 3,000%. 3,000%!

3,000% of anything is a massive change. You don't see changes like that, but the point of this change was to make Americans calmer, saner, happier. Take these drugs and your problems will go away. Yes, you will become numb. You will lose part of yourself. You no longer experience deep joy. You'll become part robot, but at least you won't want to kill yourself or harm other people. That was the promise.

3,000%. Did it work? Let's see. Over the very same period, the suicide rate in the United States jumped by 35%. Did it work? Well, millions of people got on anti-suicide drugs and we wound up with many more suicides. So, maybe it's not working. Is it possible it's making the problem worse, you think? Well, let's see. Mass shootings also increased dramatically over the very same period. Here's a chart that shows it. Now the halfwits on Twitter always scream the same thing. Correlation is not causation. All right. Whatever that means, but tell us, halfwits. What is going on exactly? What does that chart mean?

We know that SSRIs are dangerous. It says so right on the label. They increase "the risk of anxiety, agitation, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity and mania." Oh, not a big deal. That's not causation. Then what is it? According to one meta study by the FDA, young people who've been prescribed SSRI have an increased rate of suicide. Oh, wait. More suicides? Weren't they supposed to reduce suicide, but we're getting more suicide? Let's stop right there, but we're not stopping. We're accelerating.

Between 2015 and 2019, the use of SSRI drugs by teens in the United States rose by nearly 40%. So, it's not working? Let's do a whole lot more of it.

This seems like a massive and extremely obvious problem, extremely obvious. People aren't themselves. They're taking drugs that appear to be causing the behavior that drugs are designed to prevent. Why don't they talk about this on TV? Oh, let's see. In 2020, the pharmaceutical industry spent more than $4.5 billion advertising on national television in this country. Now, how much is that? Well, to put it in some context, Pfizer spent more on advertising in 2020 than it did on research and development.

But it wasn't a bad decision. It was a great decision. Pfizer's revenue doubled last year to more than $81 billion. Now, how do they do that? Well, the ad campaign paid off. It helped convince politicians to require the entire population take Pfizer products, products that don't work as advertised, that have killed large numbers of people and whose side effects are indemnified against lawsuits by the United States Congress. That's quite a business model. You might think it could be a subject of a media story, but no. No stories on Pfizer. They're paid to be fanboys of Pfizer. Therefore, they are.

Here's a tweet, for example, from CNBC, which is ostensibly a news organization and we're quoting, "Pfizer is uniquely positioned to advance MRNA, which could be a breakthrough for other infectious diseases, genetic diseases and cancer. (Paid post for Pfizer) #ad." It was on their Twitter account, a news organization. They're admitting it's a paid post for Pfizer. But in CNBC's defense, they're not alone. Pretty much all the news coverage you see in the United States is a paid post for Pfizer.

...

Oh, it's all brought to you by Pfizer. Now, why is that? Because TV channels don't prescribe drugs. Doctors do. So, why would Pfizer, a drug company, be advertising on television? Well, we're not sure the answer. Let's put it this way. Don't hold your breath waiting for CNN or Good Morning America to do a hard-hitting investigative piece on the potential connection between prescription drugs and violence. Probably not going to happen since they sponsor those channels. They're going to keep telling you it's all about guns. It's all about guns.

Seems like a chicken/egg question. People are depressed or anxious, so they take prescription meds. Then they go out and shoot people. Was it because they were depressed/anxious, or was it because of the pills?

The first paragraph was right on target. I have thought a lot recently of what we tell our boys now. I was raised on inspiring stories about the Alamo, or Normandy, or R.E. Lee, or the Union troops at Fredericksburg, or A. Lincoln. These were stories about men of real courage with the idea that I should become a man of real courage someday. I never felt a sense of shame for being male and white. Boys should be told about M.L. King and Churchill. Statues should be left alone. We should tell them that they are boys and that being male is a good thing, and that they need to grow up to become good husbands and fathers, able to defend their families if need be.

Sadly, now we tell them that they probably aren't boys to begin with. We need to listen to Jordan Peterson more. He teaches that boys should become dangerous (monsters!), but with an accompanying ability to control that power.

Today's words of wisdom comes from the Goracle on 'Meet the Press ' .

https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/attachments/image-jpeg.692328/

"You know, the climate deniers are really in some ways similar to all of those almost 400 law enforcement officers in Uvalde, Texas, who were waiting outside an unlocked door while the children were being massacred"... "They heard the screams, they heard the gunshots, and nobody stepped forward."

https://gray-woio-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/J1PwHiyHO2s29lckRNbiQaFyK8k=/980x0/smart/filters:quality(85)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/EFWDWJ56NVAEXLPDBUWQLKEYXA.jpg

Well go figure. Turns out those armed security guards work after all!


"After watching how the Uvalde tragedy unfolded-- I wanted you to know how thankful I am that you did not hesitate to run into that locker room for those girls. I wanted you to see that scared 13-year-old turned into an incredible young lady who is living her life to the fullest. Thank you for thinking of her first on that scary day. You are always in my prayers," O'Neal wrote to Morrow, according to photos of the letter posted by the sheriff’s office.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/alabama-sro-brought-tears-moms-letter-thanking-him-rescuing-daughter-armed-man-9-years-ago

And look how a security guard worked yet again. Amazing!


A school police officer in Jacksonville shot an ax-wielding man who tried and failed to enter an elementary school after police caught up with him, and he refused to drop his weapon.
Duval County Superintendent Dr. Diana Greene told News 4 Jax that the incident occurred around 2:48 p.m. on Friday, and Ruth N. Upson Elementary School (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/education) went into lockdown when the man approached the school. A school safety assistant initially turned the man back and followed him a short distance but did not leave the campus in order to ensure that the school remained secure, Burton told reporters.
"Police officers from the Duval County School Police Department (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/crime/police-and-law-enforcement) were on the way. As the subject then left the school, he made his way towards a church where he was then encountered by the police officers," DCPS Police Chief Greg Burton said.



https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-school-police-shoot-ax-wielding-man-trying-enter-elementary-school

It serves the left's political purpose to have school shootings. Clearly there are deterrence to prevent them .