....is a big FU to half the country that never attended college ;and to many more who went to college and paid off their loans . Who will pay the loans ? The people just mentioned . It sends a message that the government will bail out the irresponsible .

And do so with money it does not have. It's a politician's dream where they can hand out money and benefits without having to increase taxes. Problem is, there is a limit to that, and it's going to be really tough when those, "chickens come home to roost."

the chickens are home . REAL inflation is much higher than the government announces ;and rising and it has nothing to do with covid supply chain disruptions or the price of Putin's war. The 2nd qrt will see economic contraction for the 2nd qtr in a row aka recession. and that is BEFORE the FED puts the real brakes on the economy .

1979 the debt was approaching $1 trillion 33% gdp . Today we are at least $30 trillion. 124%gdp . Reagan and Volker raised interests rates above the inflation rate to put us on a path to recovery . The Fed needs to do that again once they figure out that slow walking the interest rates higher will not get it done .

When that happens the abundance of jobs will also cease .
Then the Clueless clowns will propose more stimulus spending .

The great red wave cannot arrive too soon, though it should be noted that repubs frequently don't have the courage to make sound decisions.

Why are college costs so high?

That's a great question. College costs have become ridiculous. When I was going to renew my certification a few years back, I figured I'd just take a college course and that would have done it. I was shocked at the cost of even an online, 3 hour class. I ended up just getting some free SEMI credits.

One reason costs are so high is that professors who retire may become college/university "vice presidents" and are put on the school's "steering committee". Of course, the college/university pays them well for their "hard work" and "leadership". Thus, tuition costs increase to pay for this wondrous leadership.

I have no doubt that is true, but it seems apparent that cost containment is just not high on anyone's radar, and that makes me wonder why competition amongst the hundreds if not thousands of colleges and universities has not kicked in to promote lower fees. I think the business of the feds guaranteeing college loans through Pell grants has caused students to just not worry about costs. It's a negative in that regard.

And what is a college degree worth nowadays? Too many jobs demand even higher level (master's, Ph.D., Psy.D., etc.) and even more specific degrees. College bound? Get an associate degree at the local community college, or even better, a certificate in a specific trade.

Why are college costs so high?

Costs shouldn't be that high . Many students get moved through the system and graduate unprepared even in their chosen career. Often they are not even good apprentice programs . Almost half drop out or don't complete their degree within an expanded 6 year timeframe.

Despite that colleges continue to raise tuitions .Federal loan money is handed out like candy . There is no accountability demanded by the government to the institutions that collect these guaranteed loans . These institutions in turn go top heavy in bureaucracy and administrative salaries .



An audit of the University of California is revealing

the President had “amassed substantial reserve funds, used misleading budgeting practices, provided its employees with generous salaries and atypical benefits, and failed to satisfactorily justify its spending on systemwide initiatives.”
The audit took particular aim at the amount of money the system funneled towards administrative expenses. Between fiscal years 2012-13 and 2015-16, the Office of the President’s administrative spending increased by 28%, or $80 million. And 10 executives in the office whose salaries were analyzed by the audit made a total of $3.7 million in FY2014 – $700,000 more than the combined salaries of their highest-paid state employee counterparts.But ballooning administrative costs are not unique to the University of California system. Over the last decades, the higher education world has witnessed a sharp upswing in administrative spending........

“The interesting thing about the administrative bloat in higher education is, literally, nobody knows who all these people are or what they’re doing,” says Todd Zywicki, a law professor at George Mason University and the author of “The Changing of the Guard: The Political Economy of Administrative Bloat in American Higher Education.” Administrative titles at schools, especially large research institutions, can be confusingly vague: Health Promotion Specialist, Student Success Manager and Senior Coordinator, Student Accountability are all positions currently available on higheredjobs.com


Bureaucrats And Buildings: The Case For Why College Is So Expensive (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinesimon/2017/09/05/bureaucrats-and-buildings-the-case-for-why-college-is-so-expensive/?sh=20ad654f456a)

There is a cost to doubling the ratio of administrators to educators and the students carry the government checks to the colleges in the hope that getting that paper credential to hang on the wall ;their future is secure;

To be fair to the schools . Government being involved ;as in any business comes with a cost in regulatory compliance as the article notes .

The consumers (students and their parents ) share in the blame too . Normally when you buy a product you base your decisions on receiving fair and adequate value for the dollar you spend . But when the taxpayer is partially funding the product then the true costs aren't apparent .
What is subsidized besides direct education ? The college culture is subsidized . The students then spend about half the time that should be devoted to their education on other school sponsored leisure activities .
The Falling Time Cost of College: Evidence from Half a Century of Time Use Data | The Review of Economics and Statistics | MIT Press (https://direct.mit.edu/rest/article-abstract/93/2/468/58608/The-Falling-Time-Cost-of-College-Evidence-from?redirectedFrom=fulltext#.VcvcwRmRPrN)


What is the answer then ? The short answer is for the government to STOP guaranteeing these loans . Get the government out of the college loans business altogether . Private lenders would demand more accountability . Colleges would be forced to be more responsible ;to reign in costs ,and to create more affordable choices . Colleges could even privately make an agreement with the students to finance the loan to be paid back based on the percentage of the student's income after graduation. Monthly loan payments are lower when their income is lower at the beginning of their career . Then as their salaries increase ,the loan gets paid back quicker . This is already happening at some institutions

Guaranteed to make it worse is for government to do debt forgiveness with no one being held responsible .

You nailed it, tomder!

What is the answer then ? The short answer is for the government to STOP guaranteeing these loans . Get the government out of the college loans business altogether . Private lenders would demand more accountability . Colleges would be forced to be more responsible ;to reign in costs ,and to create more affordable choices.I would agree with that. It would also be good for colleges to begin to look more closely at the idea that all areas of study should end up with 120 or so hours for a bachelor's degree. I would argue that a well-designed, three year program for elementary and middle school teachers could have them out and ready for a couple of years of supervised teaching with no problem. But the classes would have to be taught much better than they are now.

In other words, innovation and getting rid of outdated thinking would work wonders.

Why are college costs so high?
not only that, but the interest rates are a joke....

So I did not go to college . I opted to join the work force . I honed my trade in the shop . I saw an opportunity .I took out a loan for $10,000 + so I could purchase tools and put a down payment on a truck so I could set out on my own. I work 60 hrs a week and am barely getting by.

Now I see that Clueless is planning on forgiving $10,000 of student loans for wastrels who took a major in basket weaving while living a 4 year high on campus . They then went out and found a clerk job that has nothing to do with their major . They are dissatisfied with their work so they are in the process of a Quite Quit .They go through the motions like some Dilbert cartoon character logging onto TikTok watching funny cat videos .

They have a student loan that Clueless plans to pay for out of my taxes . Most of the Dems are on board with this idea and many of them want an even bigger debt forgiveness for student loans .

And here I thought the Dems were about fairness.

(The narrative was fictional .I went to college and worked to pay for my school .I took out a small loan in my last 2 years and paid it off sooner than it was due. Will I ger a retroactive refund ? )

They have a student loan that Clueless plans to pay for out of my taxes .I wish that was the case, but it's much worse in this brave new world of make-believe money.
Most of the Dems are on board with this idea and many of them want an even bigger debt forgiveness for student loans .It will have several bad consequences, one of which will be to encourage young people to take on college debt in the confident hope that the liberal dems will want to buy their votes again some day and "forgive" their loans. It will also encourage them to engage in useless and even counter-productive majors such as women's studies, black history, psychology, gender studies, and so forth. And it will continue to fuel the explosive growth of college expenses.

The great question will concern whether or not the American people are duped by this obvious political theatre.

Even worse . The loan forgiveness applies to anyone making less than $125,000 a year . The cost in monopoly money ? A minimum of $300 billion and perhaps up to $980 billion . The Penn Wharton Budget Model estimates that 69% and 73% of any debt forgiven would accrue to households that rank in the top 60% of the US’s income distribution.

Student Loan Relief Seen Costing Billions and Favoring Top Earners (yahoo.com) (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/student-loan-relief-seen-costing-130000439.html)

There is also talk of debt postponement and even higher amounts of forgiveness for people who took Pell grants .

Don't worry about how to pay for it . Increased audits of the fictional small business guy I referenced should take care of it ....maybe a bodega owner or 2 . And if that doesn't do it than the increase in inflation that this will bring will surely pay for it .


To your point ; Former Treasury Sec Larry Summers ;and also former President of Harvard said :

“Student loan debt relief is spending that raises demand and increases inflation,” Summers added. “It consumes resources that could be better used helping those who did not, for whatever reason, have the chance to attend college. It will also tend to be inflationary by raising tuitions.”

Larry Summers: Student debt forgiveness will make inflation worse (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2022/08/22/larry-summers-student-debt-forgiveness-will-make-inflation-worse/)

Why are college costs so high in the first place? (To give hefty salaries to the retired profs who have been hired by the college as do-nothing veeps?)

That's really a great question. Another one that should be asked is why are med costs accelerating much faster than other costs. I thought this at least provided part of the answer to the college question.


“Student loan debt relief is spending that raises demand and increases inflation,” Summers added. “It consumes resources that could be better used helping those who did not, for whatever reason, have the chance to attend college. It will also tend to be inflationary by raising tuitions.”

On a bit of a side note, I can renew my teaching certification by taking two college courses every two years, so I thought I would just do that the year after I retired. I was ASTONISHED at what was being asked for a three hour course in our local comm. college.

And I've said in other threads, beginning in middle school, encourage vocational guidance. One doesn't need a college degree to be successful. We need plumbers and electricians and auto mechanics and network/cable installers and library clerks/pages and other hands-on workers.

Why are college costs so high in the first place?

One reason and one only ...government guaranteed loans distort the market

And I've said in other threads, beginning in middle school, encourage vocational guidanceI can't speak for your state, but that is already done in our state. It's a high school course required for graduation called, "College and Career Readiness". Our district also has a vocational center that students can attend while in high school and take classes on a number of different vocational tracks.

I would imagine that is true in most states, but I don't know that for sure.

Start earlier than high school (even as early as preschool) to help students learn to work with their hands -- art, music, mechanics, putting things together, taking things apart, simple cooking and baking.

Students take art and music classes in elementary school in our state, and there are many opportunities for mechanical and cooking classes. In my own case, I learned how to do electrical wiring and welding while in high school. But like I say, I don't know how things stand in other states. I'm not going to say we could not do a better job, but the demands on schools now are enormous and time is at a premium. You'd have to tell me what you want schools to drop in order to add these other classes.

Well, during the mid-'50s, the school I attended did all these things plus we learned to diagram sentences, had handwriting class, learned the times tables, read through Di*k , Jane, and Spot, memorized the names and locations of waterways and landforms throughout the world, and still had time for recess and lunch.

Uhm...we pretty much get all of that done by sixth grade, including recess and lunch. Just sayin.

But again, if you want to add classes, then you have to identify classes to drop. What would they be?

No dropping is necessary. The "added classes" skills to be taught can be incorporated into existing classes.

Oh? And what areas of study are those classes to drop? You only get so many hours a semester. To put hours into one area, they must be taken from another. I've been there and that's simply how it is.

About 65% of high school kids go on to college, but only 60% of those students ever graduate with a degree. I actually agree with you about the need to expand our vocational offerings, but in order to do that, we will have to dial back some academic expectations. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.

It'll take more money as well since vocational classes use a lot of equipment and supplies and they don't just give that stuff away.

No dropping of classes. Incorporate cooking/baking/shop/electronics exercises into math classes. Incorporate art/music into geography and history and handwriting classes.

And as I just asked, what do you drop in those math and social studies classes? When you tie up time in math classes to teach cooking/baking, then you are not teaching math. So what math objectives do you want to eliminate? Now you might say that you could use some cooking illustrations to teach measurements. That's fine, but in no way does that teach anyone the true basics of cooking anymore than measuring the length of a welding rod would teach someone how to weld. You have to be realistic with this. You cannot have a Pollyannaish approach. Time is money in school. I cannot teach two things at the same time, so I have to drop one of them. Which objectives do you drop??? Until you can answer that, there is no point in continuing this.

Apparently you've never cooked or baked. Math is an integral part of cooking and baking. And it wouldn't happen during the entire term, but just in occasional math lessons to show how practical and necessary math is in our daily lives. Been there, done that. Works wonderfully well.

One of my teachers in grade school had the class create faux checking accounts and checks and then "go shopping" (at his "store") and pay for items by check, keep track of expenditures, etc. One of the best math experiences I ever had!

Both of those exercises are done routinely in classrooms. They are hardly remarkable. Neither does much of anything to actually expose a student to cooking. Been there and done that about twenty times more often than you. You’re still being pollyannaish. I used to tell teachers frequently that the most valuable and limited asset they had was time. You don’t seem to understand that.

This is a study from the Federal Reserve Bank of NY

sr733.pdf (newyorkfed.org) (https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff_reports/sr733.pdf)

It concludes that colleges “more exposed” to changes in federal student aid programs “increased their tuition disproportionately” around these programs. It concluded that loan expansion to students “could have been to their detriment, on net, because of the sizable and off-setting tuition effect.”

US News and World Report spoke of this in 2011 .

The more money the federal government pumps into financial aid, the more money the colleges charge for tuition. Inflation-adjusted tuition and fees have tripled over those same 30 years while aid quadrupled; the aid is going up faster than the tuition. Thanks to the federal government, massive sums of money are available to pay for massive tuitions.

This has nothing to do with costs. According to Neal McCluskey's research at the Cato Institute, it costs roughly $8,000 a year to educate an undergraduate at an average residential college. Yet the average college bill—including room and board—charged at a private four-year university is $37,000, and $16,000 at a public one. For a long time, college tuition has been rising faster than the inflation rate, which certainly has hurt middle-class families. Colleges can raise tuition with impunity because colleges know they'll get paid no matter what.


Why the Government is to Blame for High College Costs (usnews.com) (https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/11/23/why-the-government-is-to-blame-for-high-college-costs)

if anything ,it has gotten worse.

I lay the blame at the feet of the (greedy) colleges and universities.

The more money the federal government pumps into financial aid, the more money the colleges charge for tuition. Inflation-adjusted tuition and fees have tripled over those same 30 years while aid quadrupled; the aid is going up faster than the tuition. Thanks to the federal government, massive sums of money are available to pay for massive tuitions.Once again, the feds spending of borrowed and printed money is a major contributor to inflation.


I lay the blame at the feet of the (greedy) colleges and universities.A team effort between the greedy colleges and the dumb federal government.

A team effort between the greedy colleges and the dumb federal government.
Too true.

Good grief, we have agreed again. What's the world coming to???

The colleges did the logical thing to do. It was not greed . The government increased the value of the space with loans . It was the unintended consequences of good intentions . The number of slots was a given. More loans made for more competition for the slots which increased the value of the slot . Demand inflation exists when there is an excess of demand and supply remains largely static .

The problem is that the value of the degree obtained did not increase . However ;given everything else ;the prospects of the people Clueless is planning on bailing out are better than the ones he will expect to pay for it ..

The value of a degree is, of course, dependent on the degree. Borrow money to get a degree in engineering or medicine and you can pay it back. Borrow money to get a degree in gender studies, women's studies, or any of many other fairly useless area of study and you can get a job waiting tables. It borders on fraud to give out those degrees.

A middle-aged friend is working toward a doctorate in business administration -- so he can start a business.

I would think an MBA would be enough to do that.

Bill Gates, as I remember, never went to college. Hartley Peavey, who built Peavey Electronics from the very beginning, never went to college.

oh yeah another small issue Clueless has NO CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY to forgive these loans . The Constitution gives the purse strings to Congress.
"No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.” (Art 1 Sec 9 Clause 7)


Flashback :

Nancy Pelosi says Joe Biden can't cancel student loan debt | REACTION | 'American Agenda' - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qmcw07_gEg)



It would represent a middle finger to the Constitution, which vests legislative power in Congress, not the president. It would represent a middle finger to Congress, which has not given the executive branch the authority to give $10,000 each to millions of college students. It would represent a middle finger to the Department of Education, which found last year that it “does not have statutory authority to provide blanket or mass cancellation, compromise, discharge or forgiveness of student loan principal balances, and/or to materially modify the repayment amounts or terms thereof.”
Joe Biden Illegally 'Canceling' Student Loans Would Be a Middle Finger to America | National Review (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/joe-biden-illegally-canceling-student-loans-would-be-a-middle-finger-to-america/)

Will next year's freshman class borrow on the assumption that they too will not have to pay the loan back ?

btw more than 50% of outstanding student loans are for students in graduate school

Will next year's freshman class borrow on the assumption that they too will not have to pay the loan back ?Yet another reason that this is a dumb decision by the Biden admin that is clearly geared to yet more vote buying by the dems. They have no proposal for coming up with the money to do this, and as you say, he doesn't even have the Constitutional authority to do this. But then, the dems aren't too concerned about what the Constitution says to begin with.

yes he knows he would lose in court . But this buys him time before the mid-terms to say he fulfilled a campaign promise.

As a person who's recently graduated from college, the amount of money I paid for my degree was simply OUTRAGEOUS, and I went to a school that considers its costs "affordable." I worked myself to the bone in high school by taking every relevant AP class I could fit into my schedule to earn credits early, working summer jobs, and applying to HUNDREDS of scholarships during my junior and senior years (and also while in college!) to try and earn and save up some money for tuition each semester. I even managed to earn enough credits to graduate a year early, but even with all that, the amount of money I still had to pay for three years worth of classes left my bank account COMPLETELY depleted (and this is just from tuition, not even including other supplies like textbooks, online resources especially during the worst of COVID, and other nonsense students are expected to pay for)!!! Thank goodness I have a supportive and loving family because otherwise I'd be destitute right now, but unfortunately, that's not the case for everyone.

Like seriously, how does society expect a young person to pay for a college education to earn a professional job while simultaneously paying for things like housing, utilities, transportation/gas, groceries, taxes, cell phones/internet, etc. all without getting loans and facing the risk of going into debt? If anything, those risks are the NORM and EXPECTED now! A lot of people I know are STILL paying off their loans even though they've been out of school for YEARS and even DECADES!!! Why??? This isn't right! Yes, trade schools and certificates are an option, but a lot of jobs want a person to hold a degree from an accredited four-year institution (or even a master's or doctoral degree)!

I can see where both sides are coming from in regard to loan forgiveness, but what I really want to know is what can be done to prevent this from being an issue to begin with (attack a problem from its roots, ya know?). What can be done so that students don't need to take out loan(s) and fall into a vicious cycle of living from paycheck to paycheck, hence leading to the problem of needing loan forgiveness?

Welcome to the discussion, RandomPerson.

I can see your issue completely. I would only say this. There is no such thing as loan "forgiveness". All the feds can do is force other people (taxpayers) to pay off the loan. That strikes me as absurd. But you are correct in saying that something should be done to address college costs. Our elected officials seem to be completely uninterested in it.

Will you be able to get a return on your investment with a job that will able to support you and hopefully give you fulfilment ? I know it seems like in the short term it will be a struggle ;and I believe it will be. Think and plan longer term .

I became a young adult college grad in 1977 . So I can appreciate starting out during tough times . There was a lot of belt tightening and delaying of immediate gratification. Chasing high inflation and interest rates ,it took a decade of saving to come up with the minimum down payment on a home. Purchased the home just in time to see the housing market collapse. While this was going on my wife and I started a family .

Stick with it . Sooner than you think the struggles will be in the rear view mirror. Without knowing your specific situation I can generalize that the average loan for bachelor degrees is $28,800 ....... less than the price of a new car.
At that price the return should be worth the investment IF you took a major you can cash in .

Average Student Loan Debt for a Bachelor's Degree: 2022 Analysis (educationdata.org) (https://educationdata.org/average-debt-for-a-bachelors-degree#:~:text=The%20average%20debt%20for%20a,coll ege%20have%20student%20loan%20debt.)

So Clueless' plan would pay off a third of the average amount for people earning under $125,000 .

Who does this hurt? Maybe the guy who takes out a loan to start up a struggling retail store . Why should his taxes pay for it ?

It is not always a bad thing to go through some struggle.

This is my advice if you are a home owner paying $2000 /month mortgage payments . Apply for the loan forgiveness by saying that your mortgage identifies as a student loan

heard someone say that he's not worried about a student loan because his son is 6'5" and will get a full scholarship to play woman's basketball

as always ,the Bee has it's finger on the pulse.

Biden To Forgive $10k In Student Loans -- In Unrelated News, Nation’s Colleges Raise Tuition By $10k | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-to-forgive-10k-in-student-loans-in-unrelated-news-nations-colleges-raise-tuition-by-10k)

Nancy Pelosi Leading The Charge For Biden Administration To Forgive Bar Tabs | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/nancy-pelosi-leading-the-charge-for-biden-administration-to-forgive-bar-tabs)

Would it surprise anyone that the biggest beneficiaries of the student loan gimme is swamp land residents ? NO not DC residents struggling day to day to live. I'm talking about swampland staffers of the permanent bureaucratic government .

The average debtor in D.C., according to a 2021 breakdown is $54,982

States With the Highest Student Loan Debt | AdvisorSmith (https://advisorsmith.com/data/states-with-the-highest-student-loan-debt/)

In particular ,the agency that oversees the student loan program ;the DOE's staffers owe between $2.8 and $6.5 million. The President's unconstitutional decree would wipe out more than a $ half million of the debt.

It is also a windfall for 30 of Clueless' key staffers .

At least 30 senior White House staffers have student loan balances, according to 2021 financial disclosures Bloomberg News obtained from the Office of Government Ethics, including Biden’s new press secretary, Karine Jean-Pierre, and Bharat Ramamurti, deputy director of the National Economic Council. ....Collectively, they owe as much as $4.7 million, the documents show, including one legislative aide who reported owing between $500,000 and $1 million. Generally, only senior or well-paid White House staff have to file financial disclosures, and they don’t have to report debt less than $10,000, meaning the total number of Biden’s aides with loan balances is certainly higher.

Student Loan Forgiveness: Top Biden Aides Have as Much as $4.7M in Debt - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-19/biden-s-student-loan-quandary-hits-home-for-indebted-top-aides)

btw to those who argue that small businesses got paycheck protection progran (PPP) loans forgiven ;I would remind them that the government shut down the country but expected businesses to continue operating and supplying their workers a pay check. They were forced into it .This non sequitur is not the same as someone voluntarily taking out a loan .
Had the economy been operating normally businesses that could not pay back loans would file bankruptcy. The PPP program was structured as a transfer assuming that the debt would be waived . The program was approved by Congress with a large bipartisan majority. For the student loan forgiveness to be constitutional ,Congress would have to pass it .

Now if you say that some student loan issues should be permitted to be settled by bankruptcy or forgiveness then perhaps there is room to argue .
But many of the people who will be eligible for this student loan gimme are pulling in 6 figure incomes and have the means to pay the loans back.

Finally the PPP program was designed to prevent a total collapse of the economy during mandatory shutdowns . This student loan gimme is a crass desperate election season ploy to buy votes.

I got a plan. Waive interest payment on the loans if income is below a certain level.

Now if you say that some student loan issues should be permitted to be settled by bankruptcy or forgiveness then perhaps there is room to argue .As I understand it, these loans are guaranteed by the feds, so in case of bankruptcy, the taxpayers would be on the hook. Same would be true of waiving interest.

That is the moral hazard of the government guaranteeing loans .

Get the government out of the business . Not everyone is entitled to a college education. If that were so then a college education is devalued .
Parents should cosign college loans the same as with personal loans if the person applying for them do not have the means to repay them and it is a risk to give the loan.

Bankruptcy should be an option as they were until 1976 .It was historically not abused .So Congress made a mistake in getting rid of that option. By getting rid of it Congress was going into it with a presumption that students entered into the contract with the intent of fraud . No other loan program has such a presumption.

Get the government out of the business . Not everyone is entitled to a college education. If that were so then a college education is devalued .Completely agree.

Parents should cosign college loans the same as with personal loans if the person applying for them do not have the means to repay them and it is a risk to give the loan.Even better, parents should help their kids shoulder the costs of education. Between my parents and me, I got out of college with no debt other than a used car I had purchased, and even that with my parents' help. And my parents had no great income, but they did have a sense of responsibility and love for their two children.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbLYFwRVUAEfi95?format=jpg&name=small

not all Dems are on board with the election season gimmee gimic . At least 13 states so far ;including NY ;Massachusetts Hawaii ,Pennsylvania Wisconsin plan on considering the forgiveness as taxable income .

When Clueless made the decision to cancel student debt ,he was asked what was the legal basis for his declaration. We were told it was due to the pandemic.

Sunday on 60 Minutes Clueless declared the pandemic over .

"We still have a problem with COVID. We're still doing a lot of work on it. But the pandemic is over," "If you notice, no one's wearing masks. Everybody seems to be in pretty good shape. And so I think it's changing."

If the pandemic is over, then there is no ongoing national emergency to justify the unconstitutionally shaky legal grounds on which he based his decree .

Actually he declared it over long before he decided to give the loan forgiveness. May he stopped using Title 42 of the 1944 Public Health Services Act at the border because the Covid-19 emergency had passed.This allowed more illegals to cross the border .

But But But .... what about the parents who have taken out loans for their student child ? Shouldn't they get a break too ?

Undergrad student loans are capped at $31,000 . But if a parent wants to do a gap loan then the sky is the limit. About 3.6 million parental borrowers owe the government some $107 billion.(Parent PLUS loans) .These loans are rarely in default because unlike student loans , the government does due diligence and does credit checks before approving .

Senate Dems see a big opportunity here to have another election year gimmee. Clueless' plan includes those parents within the $10,000 ceiling . But some of the Dem Senators want more.

Van Hollen, Colleagues Urge Biden to Provide Student Debt Relief for Parent Borrowers | U.S. Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland (senate.gov) (https://www.vanhollen.senate.gov/news/press-releases/van-hollen-colleagues-urge-biden-to-provide-student-debt-relief-for-parent-borrowers)

The Dem benevolence with other people's money has no bounds .(Before this scheme was proposed we were looking at $1 trillion monopoly bucks )

Wait .....they can just write it off .


YARN | They just write it off. | Seinfeld (1993) - S08E05 The Package | Video clips by quotes | adccc352 | 紗 (getyarn.io) (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/adccc352-7383-432d-9213-5fef256999d1)

So the CBO came up with a price tag for Clueless Joe's magnanimous election year gimme . $420 Billion monopoly bucks ....... ka ching

Congress is supposed to have their fingers on the national purse. But in this case the money could be spent without a whimper from Congress.

Already his unilateral extension of the moratorium on student loan payments is costing $20 billion .

The institutions the students go to are either state or private colleges . What business does the Federal Government have in subsidizing college education in any way ?

What business does the Federal Government have in subsidizing college education in any way ?


It's all about buying votes. Pols love to look magnanimous when spending the taxpayers money.

What business does the Federal Government have in subsidizing college education in any way ?

There are many ways government can support education at all levels. It is in the interest of the nation.

Forgiving loans is a bad idea. As you and WG have pointed out, it leads to greedy institutions and sends a very wrong message to the students involved. .

Clueless Joe's unconstitutional student loan forgiveness scam that bought off Gen Z this election has been ruled illegal by a Federal Judge. It was already on hold by a different court . The administration made the phony claim that the Sec Education was given the power by Congress in the 2003 Hero's Act . The Judge called it an illegal action because his dictate was a legislative act.

Pittman in a 26-page ruling wrote that the HEROES Act - a law that provides loan assistance to military personnel and that was relied upon by the Biden administration to enact the relief plan - did not authorize the $400 billion student loan forgiveness program.
“The Program is thus an unconstitutional exercise of Congress’s legislative power and must be vacated,” Pittman wrote.

Federal judge in Texas declares Biden's student debt relief plan unlawful (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/10/federal-judge-in-texas-declares-bidens-student-debt-relief-plan-unlawful-.html)

Well what a coincidence that the ruling came out the day AFTER the election rather than the week before. How convenient! I wonder if the FBI sent that order out a la Biden's laptop story?

Judge said

“In this country, we are not ruled by an all-powerful executive with a pen and a phone. Instead, we are ruled by a Constitution that provides for three distinct and independent branches of government,”
“The Court is not blind to the current political division in our country. But it is fundamental to the survival of our Republic that the separation of powers as outlined in our Constitution be preserved.”

Clueless Joe knows his student loan forgiveness plan is unconstitutional . But there is still the Georgia runoff election for the Dems to steal .

So he has extended the moratorium ;aka "the pause" in students paying off their loans untill at least July of next year and possibly as late as September.

And this was just for the mid-term steal . How far will he go in 2024 ?

THE JOKER - Who Do You Trust? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50OJ0atfipo)

It often comes back to the same thing. A liberal is a person who takes great pride in being generous with someone else's money.

It appears the liberals here have gone silent again. I'm beginning to suspect it has something to do with the phases of the moon.

It appears the liberals here have gone silent again. I'm beginning to suspect it has something to do with the phases of the moon.
Husband and I have had doctor appointments during November, am editing a vampire romance novel for a client, I interact regularly with two LGBT+ and three Asperger's clients, and watch "Jeopardy" Monday thru Friday. Maybe things will calm down for me in 2023.

P.S. Am not a liberal. I vote for the person, and their previous record and behavior and intelligence (or lack of it, as in their mention of "won-ton murders" and "peach-tree dishes"). I don't vote a straight ticket/for a political party.

You are a liberal. "Walks like a duck...quacks like a duck...) And since you voted for Biden, you can make no appeal whatsoever to voting for behavior or intelligence. Please. That plea is forever gone.

But I'm glad you are back. Keep on posting.

You are a liberal. "Walks like a duck...quacks like a duck...)
And when I vote for DeSantis in 2024, then what will you call me?

A good learner...at last. But we both know that is not going to happen.

A good learner...at last. But we both know that is not going to happen.
Biden will be too old. And DeSantis is quite handsome!

Well, go for it then! Still, I don't hold out hope. DeSantis is opposed to everything you like. Gay marriage, abortion, and wide open borders are not his favorite issues. True?

DeSantis has a cute smile too. He's against vaccine mandates (we'll get sick and die and get to heaven sooner!!!) but needs me to educate him about LGBT+ issues.

Happy Thanksgiving !

DeSantis is the man
While DeSantis excites crowds on stage, he's avoiding the gladhanding that wins over donors | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/politics/ron-desantis-gop-donors-2024/index.html)

We really need those vaccine mandates to show everyone that personal freedom is of no value to liberals.

By May I'll be wearing a long bluish-gray cape dress and a kapp, but with the strings neatly tied under my chin.

https://i.etsystatic.com/13787474/r/il/8f636f/1267082723/il_fullxfull.1267082723_68cm.jpg

Be sure to send a card!

I was just in Fla . trust me the women were not wearing that apparel

There are Amish in Illinois. Check out Arthur, Illinois. DeSantis probably vacations there.

SCOTUS will take up the unconstitutional student loan forgiveness in February . They deferred a lower court order injunction until they can hear oral arguments .

SCOTUS heard arguments about Clueless Joe's unconstitutional loan forgiveness plan.

The administration argues that the 2003 'Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students Act (Heroes Act)' gives it the power to forgive loans . That would only be true with a very broad interpretation of the language of the law. The act was passed after 9-11 to allow some soldiers serving overseas to have their loan payments suspended while they were overseas.

It is a big overreach and the administration knows it . Secretly they are hoping the cases get thrown out over standing issues.

Before they made their move both Clueless and Madam Mimi had admitted that the President did not have such authority . They did it anyway as an election ploy knowing it would end up in court .

Secretly I don't believe he cares about the outcome of the case. He bought time ;bought votes . If the case goes against him he will be quick to blame a conservative court and get on the reform the court soap box .

To the students who's expectations were raised by this promises ........hang tight 2024 is just around the corner .You too can be screwed again


"If it (the court) indicates that it doesn't think the HEROES Act authority extends to loan forgiveness in this context, this would be a signal that the court intends to constrain future applications of aggressive statutory interpretation by the Biden or successor administrations," said Andrew Rudalevige, a professor of government at Bowdoin College in Maine.
Such an outcome, Rudalevige added, could have serious consequences for basic governance in Washington.

US Supreme Court doubt over student debt relief looms over Biden agenda | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-court-doubt-over-student-debt-relief-looms-over-biden-agenda-2023-03-01/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=Daily-Briefing&utm_term=030123)

Basic governance in this case means executive unconsititutional overreach

Time to revisit this issue

SCOTUS is taking it's time to make a ruling .

Senate Repubs in the meantime have crafted a plan to actually deal with the issue of student loans.

The first of five measures is on the docket .
BOM23392 (senate.gov) (https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/lowering_education_costs_and_debt_act.pdf)

The 1st 3 deal with transparency.

The bill above requires colleges to provide data on student outcomes and enrollment trends to the National Center for Education Statistics, which would create a database of this information aimed at helping prospective students make informed educational decisions.

The 2nd would standardize financial aid forms making it easier for the student to compare colleges .

The 3rd is similar requiring that students applying for federal student loans receive information detailing sample payments for their loans, as well as how long they would expect to be paying off their student loans, and what income they can expect to make after graduating from a given school.

The 4th bill cuts off loans for students who attend programs that would not result in future income suitable to pay back the loans., The government would no longer subsidize basket weaving degrees . The bill also limits the number of repayment options available . There would be 2 repayment plans ... a 10 year plan or a revised REPAYE plan which would be an income based repayment plan that allows borrowers to pay a monthly amount fixed to their income,with loan forgiveness after at least 20 years of payments.

The 5th bill would eliminate 'Graduate PLUS Loans'. These loans have been directly connected to the rapid rise in the cost of college especially after the cap on these loans were lifted in 2006 . Colleges had all the incentive to jack up the price of a graduate degree.

PROOF POINTS: No-limits borrowing for graduate school pushed prices up for all (hechingerreport.org) (https://hechingerreport.org/proof-points-grad-school-debt-backfires/)

House Repubs also have legislation on the table.

untitled (house.gov) (https://edworkforce.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fair_act_final_text.pdf)

According to their press relief the plan would

Provides targeted student loan relief to those who made years of payments but saw their debt explode due to Democrats’ poorly designed repayment policies;

Allows defaulted borrowers to get back on track to repayment by giving them a second chance to rehabilitate their loans and enroll in an affordable repayment plan;

Ends the Biden administration’s student loan scam and prevents ED from issuing costly and expansive regulations, including the President’s radical IDR proposal costing $276 billion over the next decade; and,

Ensures a smooth transition back into repayment by offering repayment assistance to borrowers in financial distress and requiring ED and the Office of Federal Student Aid to provide ample guidance to servicers.

FAIR Act Brings Clarity to Student Loan Borrowers, Protects Taxpayers | Committee on Education & the Workforce (https://edworkforce.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=409295)

I don't believe these bill will survive the legislative process . But they do offer a distinct different approach to Clueless Joe's forgiveness plan that does not solve the issues of exploding costs of college ,and would more likely increase the cost of college. These plans offer the hope of reducing the cost of college.

Had to have a hearing test today. The audiologist was telling me that people in her profession are now required to have a Doctorate in the field. The test she then proceeded to give me was fairly simple, taking fifteen minutes or so. I had the impression that a two year degree would have been adequate to allow her to do most of what she does in a day. She remarked that it took 8 years for her to get licensed and that she is carrying a load of debt because of that. So it just seems to me that a wagon load of common sense would solve a lot of these problems.

yes credentialism is a huge problem It is a form of exclusionism . There are many professions that require unnecessary degrees ,licenses etc. to limit the number of people in the profession . I have commented ae few times about how something simple like a medallion to be permitted to drive a taxi keeps people from fulfilling their American dream.

Clearly this is the case with your hearing test ;something a technician could probably do without a doctorate .

I can certainly sympathize with her predicament and still oppose the government subsidizing her doctorate ;effectively driving up the costs of other degrees because of the market distortions the subsidies create .

Clueless Joe is not backing down on putting the American taxpayer on the hook for $450 billion to buy the youth vote ;even if it defies a SCOTUS decision .


Student loans: Biden administration announces additional $7.7 billion in debt relief | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/22/politics/student-loans-debt-relief-biden-administration/index.html)

He has nothing else on the table (except his hate rhetoric about Trump and MAGA extremism’s threat to democracy. ) . So he is going the tried and true Dem game plan about buying votes.

THE JOKER - Who Do You Trust? (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50OJ0atfipo&t=10s)

Besides tariffs where they are both generally wrong ;the election comes down to their vision of the economy.

The Joe plan is to grow the economy with liquidity injections unprecedented in our history that dwarf what was spent during the Great Depression. He also released more gas reserves so consumers can drive in the summer and election season with the illusion that he is controlling prices To hell with 'national security'

Call it the 'Endless Shrimp' strategy
How Red Lobster’s misguided endless shrimp promotion drove it into bankruptcy | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/20/business/what-went-wrong-at-red-lobster/index.html)

The Trump plan is to free the private economy

The choice is that simple

https://scontent.fcps3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/448059673_1427587244592948_1012135204244559375_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=Gd5G0gwE2CgQ7kNvgFhFXSR&_nc_ht=scontent.fcps3-1.fna&oh=00_AYCRtgHJb43d7JYxl6X5VA02gE4dlYhvo_HZvJ6IkNk2 qw&oe=666E12E4

2 Federal District Court Judges have blocked Joe's plan to unconstitutionally grant student loan forgiveness on the eve of the adoption of his latest scheme.

U.S. District Judge Daniel Crabtree in Wichita, Kansas, blocked parts of the plan moments before U.S. District Judge John Ross in St. Louis, Missouri, issued a preliminary injunction against the plan. The plan was scheduled to start July 1 .