Of 47 nations surveyed ,all but one has adopted Voter ID requirements. The one exception is UK .But in UK Northern Ireland has voter ID and many localities require it . Boris Johnson has introduced legislation to bring the UK into the 21st century.

Why Do Most Countries Require Photo Voter IDs?: They Have Seen Massive Vote Fraud Problems by John R. Lott :: SSRN (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3849068.)


But here in the US ,attempts at requiring voter ID are met with charges of racism. Are all the European nations also racists because they require ID's ?

The survey also shows that 74% of the Euro nations ban absentee balloting domestically . 6% limit it to those hospitalized or in the military, and they require third-party verification and a photo voter ID. Another 15% require a photo ID for absentee voting.

worldwide
The Aussies are looser . They don't require photo ID to vote .But they do to register to vote . France banned mail in voting in 1975 because of massive fraud in Corsica, where postal ballots were stolen or bought and others were cast in the names of dead people. Mexico ;after an election was clearly stolen in 1991 ,mandated voter photo IDs with biometric information, banned absentee ballots, and required in person voter registration. Despite making registration much more difficult and banning absentee ballots.... despite all these restrictions ,voter participation rose in Mexico .There is no basis to the claim that verifying voters suppresses the vote.

Likewise ,American states that instituted voter ID showed no significant differences in voter turn out .Instead ,Black and minority voter registration rates INCREASED faster than whites after states implemented voter ID requirements for registration.

Riley-The_Myth_of_Voter_Suppression-Transcript.pdf (ctfassets.net) (https://assets.ctfassets.net/qnesrjodfi80/6RNFheU120F9iAtTeeCYM1/02a1f2572dadb4be4cf28a2778fc9b18/Riley-The_Myth_of_Voter_Suppression-Transcript.pdf)

Americans invent myths to justify their politics

Voter ID wasn't a problem in the last election which was the largest in our history so why are you RW'ers still bleating that horse?

Voter ID wasn't a problem in the last election which was the largest in our history so why are you RW'ers still bleating that horse?

Simple. They can't win fairly by arguing their agenda, so they try to prevent people from voting as the only way they can win.

Voter ID wasn't a problem in the last election which was the largest in our history says you

says you

Says every audit and recount that took place.

Here read it and weep .

The media keeps telling us two facts about elections R3.pdf (ssrn.com) (https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=4930060200011190250720170911080951 22023021026063030057104022115027083007029094112081 09609805112702511101407107509807100312711310808407 50580760861241130640950040680320340710190011211130 20114119020112093104095107073102126072109101093086 097118107115&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE)

Here read it and weep .

The media keeps telling us two facts about elections R3.pdf (ssrn.com) (https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=4930060200011190250720170911080951 22023021026063030057104022115027083007029094112081 09609805112702511101407107509807100312711310808407 50580760861241130640950040680320340710190011211130 20114119020112093104095107073102126072109101093086 097118107115&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE)

I read it and I'm not weeping. Did you read it? All 172 pages? I doubt it.

There is not a word - not a single word - about fraud in the United States. There is, however, 172 pages about the rules for voting in just about every single country in Europe, listed alphabetically, and Mexico. The rules cited are complete; i.e., pages and pages of every rule for every country, no matter how insignificant.

Fraud in the US? Nada. Zero. Nothing. What are you trying to pull, tom?

This is bad even for you, Tomder.

Ostriches abound in the US

ID is required in so many other aspects of life. One has to wonder what the REAL fear of producing ID to vote is all about . Even with no solid proof of criminal fraud ;there is plenty of anecdotal evidence (and cases in New Jersey where it was proven )

Come on you can be honest . It has nothing to do with suppressing the vote .Voter participation has never been higher ;even in states with the most stringent voter ID laws . So what is the REAL reason you object to voter ID ?

Could it be they are afraid of honest elections?

You wingers holler a lot about the sky falling and it never does, and how YOUR rights are being restricted, and they never are. Be a lot more credible if you weren't always trying to restrict everybody else's in the process. We've had nothing but fair honest elections and still you holler?

You big spoiled cry babies! No wonder you're getting spanked.

Even with no solid proof of criminal fraud

Keep telling yourself that.


Voter participation has never been higher ;even in states with the most stringent voter ID laws . So what is the REAL reason you object to voter ID ?

No solid evidence of fraud, participation has never been higher - your own words - so what is the REAL reason you want voter ID?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

When Governors and the court system bypassed the law for what you call fair and honest they still bypass the legal process . Again why are you afraid of voters being required to show an ID before registering and voting ?

Absence of "solid evidence " does not mean it doesn't happen . There are no meaningful prosecutions of litter laws ;and yet you know littering happens all the time. 7th Circus Court in Crawford v Marion County Election Board opined

"But the absence of prosecutions is explained by the endemic under-enforcement of minor criminal laws (minor as they appear to the public and prosecutors, at all events) and by the extreme difficulty of apprehending a voter impersonator. He enters the polling places, gives a name that is not his own, votes, and leaves. If later it is discovered that the name he gave is that of a dead person, no one at the polling place will remember the face of the person who gave that name, and if someone did remember it, what would he do with the information?"
When a crime is difficult to prove states still must take the steps necessary to ensure the integrity of the franchise . ....“take preventative action, as Indiana had done by requiring a photo ID.”

That Indiana law has been in place for a decade and no one can argue voter suppression . So again ;why do you oppose sensible steps ? It has to be an agenda to allow ineligible people to vote .

So again ;why do you oppose sensible steps ? It has to be an agenda to allow ineligible people to vote .

Why do you support it? It has to be an agenda to prevent eligible voters from voting. Again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

What was the point of your posting a link to 172 pages of European voting procedures? Why did you imply it was about US fraud when it had nothing to do with US fraud? That kind of thing is why you are less than trustworthy.

One Person, One Vote, One Application: District Court Decision in Ray v. Texas Upholds Texas Absentee Voting Law That Disenfranchises Elderly and Disabled Voters (american.edu) (https://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2581&context=facsch_lawrev)

I understand the premise of your argument Tom, but we all know repubs are just setting up the mid terms and next national election cycle to gain back power of the government to cement the domination of states. Heck a number of you right wing loons are still trying to overturn the last election.

Naw we can't talk about that though.

nice job adding a link from 2009 . Texas Senate attempt to make common sense reforms(ie making it more difficult for dead people to vote....and making cheating more difficult ) were temporarily thwarted when the Dems walked out of the legislature.

nice job adding a link from 2009

At least, the link was true. Your link was false.


Texas Senate attempt to make common sense reforms(ie making it more difficult for dead people to vote....and making cheating more difficult ) were temporarily thwarted when the Dems walked out of the legislature.

Here's more from that Republican bill that you left out:

The bill empowers Republican (partisan) poll watchers more access inside polling places and threatens criminal penalties against elections officials who restrict their movement.

A new provision could also make it easier to overturn an election in Texas, allowing for a judge to void an outcome if the number of fraudulent votes cast could change the result, regardless of whether it was proved that fraud affected the outcome.

Officials would also face new criminal penalties, including felony charges for sending mail voting applications to people who did not request one.

The bill prohibits Sunday voting before 1 p.m., which critics called an attack on what is commonly known as "souls to the polls" — a get-out-the-vote campaign used by Black church congregations nationwide. I believe this was dropped after the outrage it produced.

It eliminates 24-hour polling centers, which Harris County, the state's largest Democratic stronghold, introduced last year.

Around midnight, Republicans wielded their majority to suspend rules that would normally prohibit taking a vote on a bill that had not been posted for 24 hours, which Democrats protested as a breach of protocol that denied them and the public time to review the language first.

Now that quid hasn't provided you with daily talking points, the debate has degenerated. You are concerned about polling times when there are greater issues

You are concerned about polling times when there are greater issues

There is no greater issue than voting in a democracy.

Thus the reason we want to guarantee the integrity of the process .

Thus the reason we want to guarantee the integrity of the process .

Agreed

And that is why garbage law like HR1 is harmful. Take for example the mandate in HR1 for states to mail out absentee ballots to everyone registered . Connecticut spent $7.1 million in 2020 to do just that . They sent them to 3.6 million voters . 865,000 were returned . Any one of those ballots would've been available free to any voter who requested them . So we will never know how many actual votes were added because of the $8.20 /vote returned initiative .
On top of that more than 8% of the ballots mailed came back as undeliverable . There were almost 200,000 people on the rolls that did not vote in the last 2 elections . They have not been purged from the rolls and those ballots also went out .
Extrapolate those numbers to a national mandate and tell me that guarantees the integrity of the ballot . And don't you think the state of Connecticut ;one of the highest taxed states in the union, could've put that $7 million to better use ?

There were almost 200,000 people on the rolls that did not vote in the last 2 elections . They have not been purged from the rolls and those ballots also went out .And therein lies the problem. Even if everything is run in a legit way, and that's highly doubtful, it still gives the impression that the election is not being done in a secure manner, and that gives the impression of fraud. People need to be able to have confidence in election returns. That, at present, is not the case.

So the answer lies in process; a federal agency that overseas the election, supervises every polling place and count. Just think of the logistics. tell me again, why haven't you thought of this already, something about states rights wasn't it?

Yes. That's exactly what it's about. A larger fed gov is not what we need. Just look at your own country. Compulsory voting, very high tax rates, tepid economic growth, and oppressive gun control. Nope. I'll pass on that.

And that is why garbage law like HR1 is harmful. Take for example the mandate in HR1 for states to mail out absentee ballots to everyone registered . Connecticut spent $7.1 million in 2020 to do just that . They sent them to 3.6 million voters . 865,000 were returned . Any one of those ballots would've been available free to any voter who requested them . So we will never know how many actual votes were added because of the $8.20 /vote returned initiative .
On top of that more than 8% of the ballots mailed came back as undeliverable . There were almost 200,000 people on the rolls that did not vote in the last 2 elections . They have not been purged from the rolls and those ballots also went out .
Extrapolate those numbers to a national mandate and tell me that guarantees the integrity of the ballot . And don't you think the state of Connecticut ;one of the highest taxed states in the union, could've put that $7 million to better use ?


Would you provide a source for the above? Your recent posts have been so misleading, I need to ask. Thank you.

Find it yourself .

Athos is concerned about misleading posts. You don’t say?

Find it yourself .

That's what I thought - you made it up.

you can believe that if you wish . Doesn't matter if i provide it or not . You have decided I lack credibility . So believe what you will . Or look it up yourself . My source is easily found ;and that also has collaborative links .

you can believe that if you wish .

I wish not to believe it. You have recently posted stats and links that are not true. The 172 page link that had nothing to do with US voting fraud was a doozie. There are others.

If you don't wish to support what you posted re Connecticut, that is your right. But don't expect anyone to believe it.


You have decided I lack credibility

No, you have done that all by yourself.

If you don't wish to support what you posted re Connecticut, that is your right. But don't expect anyone to believe it.I'm saving that one. I have no doubt it will come in handy in the months to come. Unsupported statements lack credibility. Seems like I've heard that before.

do your own research

Connecticut actually did pretty well as the national average for undelivered election mailings is 15%.... and add to that over 300,000 ballots nationwide that received incoming scans at postal plants but not exit scans .. In many cases the person received a mail in ballot and decided to vote in person. In Georgia they kept on counting "found " missing votes until they got the results they wanted .

It appears Arizona is trying to find some of those lost votes for the doofus! I guess that's okay for the taxpayers to foot that bill.

big difference between finding votes under a table after Republican counters are dismissed and an audit recount.

big difference between finding votes under a table after Republican counters are dismissed and an audit recount.

Even bigger difference between state-sanctioned certified auditors and right wing dufus Defenders with black lights looking for bamboo fibers.

so the rage continues, meanwhile the government goes quietly on

so the rage continues, meanwhile the government goes quietly on

Not quietly but loud and raucus. TV does that.

after Trump this is silence

Time to resurrect this post .

Cluessless Joe has nominated Nancy Gbana Abudu, the deputy legal director at Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) to be an 11th Circus appellate justice .She is a diversity nominee who checks off the appropriate boxes . She “would be the first African-American woman judge ever "to sit on the Eleventh Circus.

But that is not my beef . When she was working for the ACLU she said that proof of citizenship and photo ID are indicative of “voter suppression.”

Abudu (at the same time in 2011!!!) slammed South Carolina for not permitting students to show campus IDs to vote, calling it “restrictive.”

What's her stance now, ten years later?

got me . That stance is indicative of her disregard for the integrity of the franchise . Many students from campus are out of state .

You say it was a decade ago .But her comments about the Georgia law shows that her opinion has not changed . She parroted Clueless' comments that the Georgia law was Jim Crow .

But her comments about the Georgia law shows that her opinion has not changed . She parroted Clueless' comments that the Georgia law was Jim Crow .
A date for those comments? And what was meant by "the Georgia law was Jim Crow"?

Defending Democracy: SPLC calls on Senate to swiftly pass John R. Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act | Southern Poverty Law Center (splcenter.org) (https://www.splcenter.org/news/2021/08/27/defending-democracy-splc-calls-senate-swiftly-pass-john-r-lewis-voting-rights-advancement)

You don't know what Jim Crow laws were ? That is when there was real suppression unlike today .

Defending Democracy: SPLC calls on Senate to swiftly pass John R. Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act | Southern Poverty Law Center (splcenter.org) (https://www.splcenter.org/news/2021/08/27/defending-democracy-splc-calls-senate-swiftly-pass-john-r-lewis-voting-rights-advancement)

You don't know what Jim Crow laws were ? That is when there was real suppression unlike today .
Yes, I know about Jim Crow. Was born and raised in the South. I was asking, how is the Georgia law Jim Crow? And...how is it not?

I don't think it is Jim Crow .If voter ID requirements are Jim Crow then most of the country still practices Jim Crow .In fact Georgia's laws are to a large extent mirror Federal laws .
Georgia provides a free photo ID to anyone who doesn’t already have one. We have more than a decade’s worth of Georgia’s turnout data in election after election that graphically shows that the ID provision does not prevent anyone—including minorities The only addition is that now is ID is required for absentee and mail in ballots. All someone who wants a mail in ballot need do is write the id # on the application. Doesn't even need a drivers license . It can be satisfied with a “copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the name and address "

Illinois doesn't require driver or state ID to vote or to apply for a mail-in application.

good for Illinois one of only 15 states that don't require some form of ID . Did I mention how dysfunctional your state is ?

We have more than a decade’s worth of Georgia’s turnout data in election after election that graphically shows that the ID provision does not prevent anyone—including minoritiesHopefully facts will be persuasive.

good for Illinois one of only 15 states that don't require some form of ID . Did I mention how dysfunctional your state is ?
Dysfunctional because Dems win?

What state has the lowest credit rating in the nation ? Yes the Dems and the fact that they are beholden to public service unions are mostly to blame . They got their first credit rating upgrade in 2 decades so I guess there is some good news there . But it is still the worse in the nation.Decades of budgetary mismanagement is the cause . It has $250 billion in obligations and only about 40% of it funded . It's bond ratings border on junk bond status . We here the same old same old tax the rich rhetoric as a solution .But the rich are leaving the state in droves . And yes ;the Dems want to empower the very unions that are sinking the state .

good for Illinois one of only 15 states that don't require some form of ID . Did I mention how dysfunctional your state is ?

You need an ID to register, and vote, just not the specific one you wingers want mandated.

Without requiring a PHOTO ID for VOTING in every election (not registration ,not 1st time voting only),there is almost no chance of detecting fraud.....and that includes providing a copy of the id when applying for absentee ballots . And if absentee ballots are mailed out without specific requests by the voter then you are also inviting fraud .If you allow ballot harvesting you also invite fraud .

The Dem's claim that photo id is equivalent to Jim Crow poll taxes is absurd . They are offered for free . Further the requirement of a photo id has not been demonstrated to suppress turnout . That is just a phony Dem talking point .

HR1 would force states to mail absentee ballots to all voters and allow harvesting.HR1 also compels states to automatically register everyone who signs up for food assistance, unemployment benefits or other government support. That includes noncitizens, unless they declare themselves ineligible. It bans photo-ID requirements. Anyone can show up on Election Day to vote and simply sign a statement claiming to be registered.

Dems know that election fraud typically favors them, so they are in favor of virtually anything that allows for it.

No, turnout favors dems, which is why anything that promotes it scares repubs.


Without requiring a PHOTO ID for VOTING in every election (not registration ,not 1st time voting only),there is almost no chance of detecting fraud.....and that includes providing a copy of the id when applying for absentee ballots . And if absentee ballots are mailed out without specific requests by the voter then you are also inviting fraud .If you allow ballot harvesting you also invite fraud .

The Dem's claim that photo id is equivalent to Jim Crow poll taxes is absurd . They are offered for free . Further the requirement of a photo id has not been demonstrated to suppress turnout . That is just a phony Dem talking point .

HR1 would force states to mail absentee ballots to all voters and allow harvesting.HR1 also compels states to automatically register everyone who signs up for food assistance, unemployment benefits or other government support. That includes noncitizens, unless they declare themselves ineligible. It bans photo-ID requirements. Anyone can show up on Election Day to vote and simply sign a statement claiming to be registered.
None of your fears and allegations has ever been proved by repubs in the decades of hollering lies and shenanigans.

As stated without the safeguards there is almost zero chance of "proving " fraud . The Dem fallback is always going to be the charge is unproven and they will be correct because the chaos the Dems favor prevent it .

Take your grievances to court like we do and end the chaos.

When you don't like court rulings you try to jam through legislation by any means necessary ;like Schmucky is trying to do with HR1 .

Not like repubs way of filling SCOTUS at all...yeah right...far right!

I would have to remind you that Harry Reid was the one who broke the cloture rule for confirming justices. Back then it was called the 'nuclear option' .That came back to bite the Dems just like breaking the filibuster to jam through HR1 would . Once the horse is out of the barn don't expect the opposing party to put it back.

Slick Mitch is not above throwing his word out the window to get what he wants, with not a peep from his fellow repubs. Same SCOTUS example from above. Doesn't matter to him.

How have the repubs filled the Supreme Court?

How have the repubs filled the Supreme Court?
Which party has the majority of Supremes?

Why? Was it OK for the dems to do that, but not for repubs? Why OK for one but not the other?

Which party has the majority of Supremes? What's the breakdown of repubs and dems?

this is a non-issue.
The Repubs have the majority but would've had it with or without the decision to block the Garland nomination . AND Kavanaugh and Barrett have hardly been the partisans that the Dems feared . There are 3 hard line partisan progressive living breathers . Threre are 3 hardline originalists . Kavanaugh Barrett and Chief Justice Roberts stick their fingers in the wind before ruling .

Yeah we know repubs would rob the dems one way or another. More the reason for dems to unite and push the liberal agenda while they have a slim majority.

update on an oldie

Early voting is under way in Georgia and it is setting records for turnout that surpass 2020. (I think the Repubs got the message)

This corrects for good the false narrative that says the Georgia voting laws that were passed to suppress turnout . Over 291,700 people have voted ..... 268,050 in person and 23,690 absentee.Will Clueless Joe retract his inflamatory comments that the Georgia law was "Jim Crow 2.0" ?

BTW ,this is a trend in all the GOP states that updated their elections laws. As of yesterday over five million people have already voted in the 2022 general election.

RPubs - Early Voting 2022 General Election (https://rpubs.com/ElectProject/early_vote_2022)

This corrects for good the false narrative that says the Georgia voting laws that were passed to suppress turnout .I don't know that even the democrats believed that. It was just a political mantra needed to keep minority voters scared enough to continue to vote democrat. The truth rarely enters into consideration anymore. The media is supposed to be the great arbitrator in that regard, but most of them are now just political advocates for the democrat party.