Read on Fox News this morning that Bernie Sanders is set to propose we "forgive" all student loan debt and make college free for everyone. If true, this will be yet another display of the "money grows on trees" mentality in Washington. He is set to propose a "tax on Wall Street" to pay for this paying off of debt, most of which belongs to young people perfectly capable of paying off their own debt. You can rest assured this tax, set for 2 trillion over the next ten years, will not come close to paying for this plan, meaning we will be adding hundreds of billions to our already outrageous 23 trillion in national debt. And making college "free" will soon be followed by federal price controls on tuition costs which are ridiculous and out of control.

So this is how our federal government works. We run deficits of hundreds of billions of dollars a year and have 23 trillion in debt, but the people in charge push through huge tax cuts and then propose yet another give away program with money we don't have. And you wonder why I am in favor in limited government?

Better would be getting rid of "graft and corruption" in colleges and universities. Tuition has soared because of all sorts of hidden expenses that never existed when I was in college and, more recently, in grad school. For instance, textbooks were resold to students taking that classes during the next semester. Now textbooks are slightly added to or parts reworded, so students have to buy pricey new textbooks that contain the (hidden) revisions. Also, retired profs and other educators become paid VPs and other "important" additions to the university faculty (even though they don't do anything except look distinguished, maybe have an office, and collect a paycheck). Those are only two reasons why college costs so much nowadays.

Better would be getting rid of "graft and corruption" in colleges and universities. Tuition has soared because of all sorts of hidden expenses that never existed when I was in college and, more recently, in grad school. For instance, textbooks were resold to students taking that classes during the next semester. Now textbooks are slightly added to or parts reworded, so students have to buy pricey new textbooks that contain the (hidden) revisions. Also, retired profs and other educators become paid VPs and other "important" additions to the university faculty (even though they don't do anything except look distinguished, maybe have an office, and collect a paycheck). Those are only two reasons why college costs so much nowadays.

I agree wholeheartedly. I would add this. Too many kids go to college and get degrees in areas that are nearly useless. Everything from women's studies to gender studies, philosophy, theater, fine arts, and so forth. Not that those don't have usable or even important knowledge, but they are of but little use in getting good jobs.

I've heard the idea of having colleges be cosigners of the loans, assuming at least part of the risk. That would be the end of using borrowed money to fund stupid degree ideas.

I agree, JL. My younger son attended a four-year private college for a degree in English (Creative Writing). Freshman tuition was $19,000; senior tuition was $30,000. Parents and students were told college costs everywhere were skyrocketing. Apparently!!!! My son said they read a bunch of classics to satisfy the lit requirement, and the creative writing too often consisted of assignments that resulted in a small group of students sitting around a large table, reading their stories to each other and throwing paper wads and spit balls at each other. Only the college's name, not the degree, helped him get a real-world job after graduation.

I agree, JL. My younger son attended a four-year private college for a degree in English (Creative Writing). Freshman tuition was $19,000; senior tuition was $30,000. Parents and students were told college costs everywhere were skyrocketing. Apparently!!!! My son said they read a bunch of classics to satisfy the lit requirement, and the creative writing too often consisted of assignments that resulted in a small group of students sitting around a large table, reading their stories to each other and throwing paper wads and spit balls at each other. Only the college's name, not the degree, helped him get a real-world job after graduation.

I made the same sort of mistake. My degree was in animal science, which was basically the livestock industry. I enjoyed the study and had a great time, but when I got out I had one job offer and didn't stick with that. In the end, the degree helped me get a job in teaching and that ended up being my field. And since my parents combined with my jobs enabled me to get out with no debt, then it was OK. I feel sorry for these kids. These student loans should be much more difficult to get.

I feel sorry for these kids. These student loans should be much more difficult to get.
And like you mentioned earlier, the classes and resulting degrees should be useful, not time-wasting, credit-amassing courses that end up as majors that don't help when job hunting after graduation.

And like you mentioned earlier, the classes and resulting degrees should be useful, not time-wasting, credit-amassing courses that end up as majors that don't help when job hunting after graduation.

Well, we can go ahead and close this site down. You and I have now agreed on this topic, and have agreed to a fairly high degree. It would be best to stop now while the memory is most vivid. It is etched in the digital stone of Askmehelpdesk!

Well, we can go ahead and close this site down. You and I have now agreed on this topic, and have agreed to a fairly high degree. It would be best to stop now while the memory is most vivid. It is etched in the digital stone of Askmehelpdesk!
I'm even starting to really like you a lot!

I'm even starting to really like you a lot!

Stop the presses! A miracle has happened!!

Just give it time. The ole pendulum will swing back to, "What is it with this fundamentalist, far-right loonie?"

Bernies idea is basic socialism, free education, but you need to get rid of the idea you need a university degree to get a job.

Student debt is a big deal, but good luck to any dem that thinks they could actually pass such a wish list without a super majority in the congress. I don't see that so the soariring silly season rhetoric is pretty meaningless.

These things are line items in a manifesto. Very popular with socialists. We don't need to read it to know what is in it

It's not the policy, it's who runs it and how.

I heard that interview too. Maybe I shouldn’t have paid for my kids to attend universities, and even med school! What was I thinking? Each of these candidates has so many giveaways and no action plan on how they will pay for it. Ugh!

They didn't pay for the tax cuts either so what's the difference?

They didn't pay for the tax cuts either so what's the difference?

There is no difference. You are correct in your point. That's why we are 23 tril in debt. It's the one place where Trump is copying Obama's behavior...deficit spending.

I heard that interview too. Maybe I shouldn’t have paid for my kids to attend universities, and even med school! What was I thinking? Each of these candidates has so many giveaways and no action plan on how they will pay for it. Ugh!

I feel the same way. It's just another in a long line of liberal efforts to reward irresponsible behavior and buy votes with taxpayer/borrowed money.

You should be grateful that you could help your kids through higher education. Many parents cannot so the kids should be doomed to debts and low paying jobs? Not all of them are pursuing "frivalous careers", but if your saying some of their dreams are stupid I disagree. The real issue is the rising costs of things and the slow return on that investment one makes to achieve that degree that is so prized as the key to a better life. Liberal or conservative, I think taking campaign promises and rhetoric should be taken with a grain of salt as the real world few things can be accomplished from them. Bernie if made president has little hope of getting what he wants without a vast super majority, so why get bent out of shape over it?

You should be grateful that you could help your kids through higher education.

Who said I wasn't? But I'll tell you what, it didn't come easy.


Many parents cannot so the kids should be doomed to debts and low paying jobs?

If a young person is going to incur debt to get a degree, it should be a degree for a job that pays well so they can repay the loan. If they are "doomed" to a low paying job, then wouldn't that indicate a poorly thought-out career choice???


Not all of them are pursuing "frivalous careers", but if your saying some of their dreams are stupid I disagree.

Having a dream is one thing. Having a dream you cannot pay for is something else, and then expecting to be able to live for years in your parent's basement and requiring your neighbors to pony up with taxes (and even worse, borrowed money) to pay for your dream is an outrage.


The real issue is the rising costs of things and the slow return on that investment one makes to achieve that degree that is so prized as the key to a better life.

There is some truth in that statement.

I am grateful for being able to pay for my kids’ educations. I am a public school teacher and saved every cent I could to give them a better life than I had. I will be staying long past retirement age to guarantee that I have enough savings. By the way, I was a single parent.

I am grateful for being able to pay for my kids’ educations. I am a public school teacher and saved every cent I could to give them a better life than I had. I will be staying long past retirement age to guarantee that I have enough savings. By the way, I was a single parent.

That's a pretty remarkable account. I tip my hat to you. Now, if Bernie has his way, you will be able to participate in sending other kids to college. Oh boy.

That's a pretty remarkable account. I tip my hat to you. Now, if Bernie has his way, you will be able to participate in sending other kids to college. Oh boy.. I’m not a fan of the empty promises. We shall see who prevails....

Empty promises is all you will get from Demonrat socialists

Empty promises is all you will get from Demonrat socialists

Not always. Remember Obamacare. One promise that they kept, unfortunately.

Not always. Remember Obamacare. One promise that they kept, unfortunately.

Typical conservative attitude. Anything to help poor people (Or the average person for that matter) is bad. That's a promise you guys are always consistent with. Repubs made it a theme for years REPEAL, even shut the government down over it, then it was repeal and replace, and we know how that worked out.

The dufus promised BETTER, where is it?

The dufus promised BETTER, where is it?

For once I agree with you.


Anything to help poor people (Or the average person for that matter)

Yeah, as long as liberals can get other people to pay for it, they're all for it.

Not other people, as you are so fond of saying which is as ill informed as it gets, but ALL of us as a collective through consensus and compromise. That's how problems are solved and solutions rendered over time. Liberals and conservatives and everyone in between. That's what our society is built on. That's what makes us great.

Not other people, as you are so fond of saying which is as ill informed as it gets, but ALL of us as a collective through consensus and compromise

For about the twentieth time, that is not true. About 10% of income earners in America pay well over 2/3 of income taxes. The bottom half pay next to nothing, so it is easy for them to vote for those who promise to give them the moon since it doesn't cost them anything. It's easy for me to say we should help the xxxxxx when it is not going to cost me very much. That's why I always say, show me what you are doing with your own personal giving if you want to make an impression.

That's the problem, you think I must impress you! You should rethink that my FACT deprived friend. Even what you have presented is but EVIDENCE of the artificial nature of POVERTY. My solution is a better CIRCULATION of the money instead of hoarding by the few. That's the start of my economic business model. Its an ill informed distraction to count who pays the most taxes as a value for other than PROOF of the creation of poverty bt man himself.

That's the problem, you think I must impress you! You should rethink that my FACT deprived friend. Even what you have presented is but EVIDENCE of the artificial nature of POVERTY. My solution is a better CIRCULATION of the money instead of hoarding by the few. That's the start of my economic business model. Its an ill informed distraction to count who pays the most taxes as a value for other than PROOF of the creation of poverty bt man himself.

another line in the socialist manifesto. Take from the rich and give to the poor, so you are a modern day Robber Hood, deciding how others should spend their money and yet your nation is built on the accumulation of wealth. Do you really want to be at the level of the lowest denominator?

When A wants to force B to help C, then you have a liberal policy. The terrible thing is that A then wants to feel morally superior to both B and C.


Its an ill informed distraction to count who pays the most taxes as a value for other than PROOF of the creation of poverty bt man himself.

What???

I paid off my student loan . I want a refund . What does Bernie say to the athletes who had to bust their butts and do all types of sacrifices to qualify for scholarships to go to the schools ? They get up early for practice ;have to keep their bodies in top shape because the competition for these scholarships is intense . Depending on the sport ,they are putting their bodies on the line playing the sport without pay while the school reaps in the profits from a successful athletic program. Now that athlete finds out that their roomies who's only concern is passing and being able to attend the next kegger is going to get a free pass ?

Votes. All about votes.

another line in the socialist manifesto. Take from the rich and give to the poor, so you are a modern day Robber Hood, deciding how others should spend their money and yet your nation is built on the accumulation of wealth. Do you really want to be at the level of the lowest denominator?

Naw, that's a bit dramatic. I prefer to recognize that the real work is done by ordinary grunts who take a shower everyday after a hard days work. Not the guy who takes the credit, and the profits. Ordinary people don't tank the economy, rich guys do. Who pays for that? They don't, YOU do. Wall Street gets bail outs, and huge deficit funded tax breaks, and free passes out of jail, while you get nothing, but bankruptcy and laid off. They buy elections and candidates you elect. You get nasty water and air. Plants close and towns die, because they build the new plants where the labor is cheap and NO benefits. Please spare me the socialist crap, I just want FAIR. I need a raise! Not some geopolitical slogan!


When A wants to force B to help C, then you have a liberal policy. The terrible thing is that A then wants to feel morally superior to both B and C.



What???

Take that up with the liberals in your state who decides what's done with your money in a state that takes more than they pay in. Sorry you don't understand how that works while you blaming everybody else.


Votes. All about votes.

It's all about the money because last I checked the most votes doesn't always deliver the right person as far as a prez is concerned. Talk to Vlad about that. I heard he voted too!

It's all about the money because last I checked the most votes doesn't always deliver the right person as far as a prez is concerned. Talk to Vlad about that. I heard he voted too!

If you are carrying 40K of college debt, guess who you're going to be tempted to vote for?

So what? Repubs voted for the dufus for whatever reason, so the dems can do the same can't we? Of course we can and will!

So what? Repubs voted for the dufus for whatever reason, so the dems can do the same can't we? Of course we can and will!

Yes, except we were talking about...oh never mind.

It is all a fallacy, education is an industry, supposedly churning out knowledgable cannon fodder for other industries but in reality just keeping the young off the streets. How better to maintain the slave population than to indebt them. Remember centuries ago there was indentured labour, the system hasn't changed only the path to ruin. So Burnie wants to make the government pay for the system, freeing the slaves. Admirable, but in the political system you have unlikely to be implemented

Yes, except we were talking about...oh never mind.

We were talking about Bernie and his free education plan, but I must note yet again he is but one of many seeking the nomination and they all have ideas to attract dems to vote for them. Its a big field and kind of early.


It is all a fallacy, education is an industry, supposedly churning out knowledgable cannon fodder for other industries but in reality just keeping the young off the streets. How better to maintain the slave population than to indebt them. Remember centuries ago there was indentured labour, the system hasn't changed only the path to ruin. So Burnie wants to make the government pay for the system, freeing the slaves. Admirable, but in the political system you have unlikely to be implemented

I kind of agree with you Clete, this whole capitalist economy deal is a big hustle, but it's the only hustle in town. Even in YOUR town.

I kind of agree with you Clete, this whole capitalist economy deal is a big hustle, but it's the only hustle in town. Even in YOUR town.

Yes in my town which is a university town and regional education hub, and the capitalist economy is strong here too, but without the Razz-a-ma-tazz you have to endure. Noone talks of having to make this place great, it is a given, we don't need tariffs to protect us from the big bad Chinese but a few to protect us from the voracious americans might be needed. They have tried to dismantle our industries and succeeded in removing the automotive industry among others. But Drought will accomplish what they cannot

Bernie wasn't at last night's debate . But the general theme of it was "Make Freebies Great Again.......because it is you're right" .

Bernie wasn't at last night's debate . But the general theme of it was "Make Freebies Great Again.......because it is you're right" .

What may very well be our greatest enemy is the one thing no one talks about anymore, and I don't see anyone from either party with the stomach to handle it. The repubs want to cut taxes and the dems want to give away freebies. In the meantime, the national debt continues to soar out of control. One can only hope the American people have not grown so lazy and indifferent as to fall for it.

What's your great idea to deal with the debt while cutting taxes? For the record cutting taxes for rich guys and corporations that ADDED to the debt was as dumb as it gets and amounted to robbery in the first place. Blame that on the party in power that did it.

What's your great idea to deal with the debt while cutting taxes? For the record cutting taxes for rich guys and corporations that ADDED to the debt was as dumb as it gets and amounted to robbery in the first place. Blame that on the party in power that did it.

Good grief. In my previous post I said this, "The repubs want to cut taxes and the dems want to give away freebies." If you would calm down a little and read a little more carefully, you would see that we already basically agree on this point. Wow. Some of the people on this board are so quick to get angry. Incredible.

Now for the record, it is not possible to significantly cut taxes for most Americans. The bottom half of income earners pay practically no taxes. The top 10% pay the great part of income tax, so any tax cuts will naturally impact them more than anyone else.

What may very well be our greatest enemy is the one thing no one talks about anymore, and I don't see anyone from either party with the stomach to handle it. The repubs want to cut taxes and the dems want to give away freebies. In the meantime, the national debt continues to soar out of control. One can only hope the American people have not grown so lazy and indifferent as to fall for it.

When Beto was was asked who he would tax and how much ;he broke into his speaking Spanish shtick

Like Lord Voldemort ,the unspeakable truth is that the only way to turn the debt around is to tax the"middle class" to death AND to make draconian cuts in services .

And that's AFTER you stole a few trillion bucks? No repub hollered debts when they passed the deficit funded tax cuts in the first place.

And that's AFTER you stole a few trillion bucks? No repub hollered debts when they passed the deficit funded tax cuts in the first place.

Not entirely true, but close enough. Still it should be noted that no lib on this board has one ounce of concern for the national debt, and no liberal dem that I know of, and certainly not among the several dozen running for pres, has anything to say about it. So maybe we have become so lazy and indifferent that we can't recognize lunacy when we see it??

Debt forgiveness punishes those who did the right thing, made sacrifices, and acted wisely and frugally. It also punishes those who didn’t have the opportunity to go to college.When everyone has a college degree ;the degree will have no value .

Neither side mentions the debt . So sad ;it wasn't that long ago that uncontrolled spending was the issue that brought us the tea party movement.

All of us dems protested the tax cuts when they were passed, and would repeal them, if you so call debt hawks would vote for us. I've spoken up numerous times but maybe not loud enough for you to hear through all those lies and right wing noise the dufus tells. So put your vote where your mouth is and stop casting fake shade.

tax cuts generate revenue . Overspending is the root cause of the debt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdXrfIMdiU

Debt forgiveness punishes those who did the right thing, made sacrifices, and acted wisely and frugally. It also punishes those who didn’t have the opportunity to go to college.When everyone has a college degree ;the degree will have no value .

Neither side mentions the debt . So sad ;it wasn't that long ago that uncontrolled spending was the issue that brought us the tea party movement.

Don't get excited, silly season ideas seldom get traction since being one of many and we have 25 candidates. Why pick on one idea when there are many more important issues like health care and the economy where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and the dufus sucking money out of the system. They both circle back to the debt, fueled by legalized stealing.

tax cuts generate revenue . Overspending is the root cause of the debt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdXrfIMdiU

The Kennedy tax cut were from a different time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1964



Kennedy proposed the bill on the advice of Keynesian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics) economist Walter Heller (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Heller), who believed that temporary deficit spending would boost economic growth. The act was initially blocked by conservatives like Senator Harry F. Byrd (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_F._Byrd), but Lyndon Johnson was able to guide it through Congress after the assassination of Kennedy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy) in November 1963. The act cut federal income taxes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_taxes_in_the_United_States) by approximately twenty percent across the board, and the top federal income tax rate fell from 91 percent to 70 percent. The act also reduced the corporate tax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax) from 52 percent to 48 percent and created a minimum standard deduction...


...The stated goals of the tax cuts were to raise personal incomes, increase consumption, and increase capital investments. Evidence shows that these goals were exceeded by large degree with the combination of tax cuts and domestic spending programs President Johnson advocated, such as Medicare.[10 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1964#cite_note-Policy1-10) Unemployment fell from 5.2% in 1964 to 4.5% in 1965, and fell to 3.8% in 1966.[10][11] Initial estimates predicted a loss of revenue as a result of the tax cuts, however, tax revenue increased in 1964 and 1965.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1964#cite_note-Policy1-10)[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1964#cite_note-12)




That's nowhere near what you guys passed.

Initial estimates predicted a loss of revenue as a result of the tax cuts, however, tax revenue increased in 1964 and 1965.

supply side .....true then ;true now

supply side .....true then ;true now

No demand side! The little guy got the 20% and the fat guys got 6%, while the little guy got extra benefits as well. Nice try, but your right true then it would be true now except that isn't at all what you guys did and you well know that.

I've spoken up numerous times but maybe not loud enough for you to hear through all those lies and right wing noise the dufus tells.

I don't think that's true, but if you'll show me quotes where you have initiated a conversation on the national debt, then I'll be proven wrong. Complaining about tax cuts is not the same thing. Obama increased taxes but became the king of deficit spending. My biggest complaint about Trump is that he is too much like Obama when it comes to borrowing money.

Do you even research what you blather about? LINK please! Here's mine to start.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-did-2008-10-tax-stimulus-acts-do

gotta love the mind of the progressive . A tax rebate is the government "generously " giving you back some of your money . A tax cut is when we get to keep our own money without the government taking it from us in the 1st place.

gotta love the mind of the progressive . A tax rebate is the government "generously " giving you back some of your money . A tax cut is when we get to keep our own money without the government taking it from us in the 1st place.

Posters here love to talk about research. Well, research shows that the top 5% of income earners already pay almost 60% of taxes, amounting to about 800 billion dollars. If we raised their taxes by 50%, which would be drastic, we would still not come close to having a balanced budget. Without developing some restraint in spending, it's hopeless.

Trump cut taxes but then substantially increased defense spending. Obama was just a spendaholic. The republican congress never showed much stomach for spending cuts. I'm convinced we could cut spending across the board by 5% and, if done with some intelligence, we'd never notice it. Even that would not come close to balancing the budget, but it would be a start in the right direction.

https://howmuch.net/articles/high-income-americans-pay-majority-of-federal-taxes

This would be a good start.

49187

Love it! Isn’t that the truth? Entitlement is a huge reason my job is so difficult these days. Boy has education changed during my career! Many of today’s kiddos have never heard the word “no.”

Entitlement is a huge reason my job is so difficult these days. Boy has education changed during my career! Many of today’s kiddos have never heard the word “no.”

Always nice to hear from a fellow educator. I put in 34 years and retired about two years ago. Spent ten years in inner city schools. Spent 5 years at an American Indian school. Had basically a good experience, but I can see that what you are saying is true. A general lack of respect for authority is at the root of the problem. Too many kids raised with no father around.

From Candace Owens :
I decided to stage a photoshoot just like @AOC (https://mobile.twitter.com/AOC)
!Except I’m outside of an inner-city school where the conditions are abhorrent and the majority of black AMERICAN boys can’t pass a basic reading exam.Maybe the liberal media will give this epidemic some attention now?
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1144246844400312320?fbclid=IwAR2zQ8Z42q3qKtEgrM8Si pB_wLIdEq-dbKnrJcKnUi46GdIQ7igRzad-mvkhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-EucDvXsAEhpCb?format=jpg&name=small

The tragedy and scandal of the neglect of inner city school performance should be a national story, but they cannot attach that to Trump, so it goes unnoticed.

Yes racism predates the dufus but he is a racist nonetheless. To easy to direct money to one zip code and not others.

Yes racism predates the dufus but he is a racist nonetheless.

As the only one here who has actually worked in inner city schools (10 years), I'll tell you right now that racism is far from being the big problem in those schools. It's not even a close second or third.

And as I said above, every problem known to man has to have some connection to Trump in the eyes of most liberals. If we could just get Trump to stop causing Dak Prescott's receivers to drop passes, no doubt because he is a racist, then the Cowboys would win the Super Bowl.

You have observed the effects of systemic institutional racism and don't have a clue what you were seeing after 10 years? That's a sad commentary to your awareness. What inner city did you experience so that I may ask questions. Region or state is fine. Don't say Missisippi because we all know that racism doesn't exist there....>SARCASM FONT set to dripping<

You have observed the effects of systemic institutional racism and don't have a clue what you were seeing after 10 years? That's a sad commentary to your awareness.

More a sad commentary to your incredible belief that you can know what is going on in schools that you have never been to. Some people are so indoctrinated with the idea that everything is due to racism that they cannot think outside of that box. I wonder if that describes you.

I was there. I'll stand on my comment and question yours until you can say you have been there as well. I worked with many black professionals in those schools. I never heard a single one attribute the school's problems to racism. They knew because they were there. You don't because you weren't. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

Yes racism predates the dufus and yet the decline of the inner city schools coincides with socialist leaning Democrat governance of inner cities .

socialist leaning Democrat governance of inner cities .

Maybe they are all a bunch of Trump-loving, racists.

and yet the decline of the inner city schools coincides with socialist leaning Democrat governance of inner cities .

My observation is it has always been a process of defunding, and redirecting resources. Dems aren't socialists and that label is but the latest campaign to draw votes from the dems. Good luck, since after seeing the diversity growing in the dem camp, it becomes a matter of turnout. I give it to repubs though as they have compensated their failing numbers with some interesting and effective voting tricks.

My observation is it has always been a process of defunding, and redirecting resources.

We had plenty of money. Funding would not have even made the top five list of our problems.


Dems aren't socialists and that label is but the latest campaign to draw votes from the dems.

Still, even if that is true, you haven't explained the connection between failing schools and democrat mayors and city councils. If dems are so smart, the why have they not solved the problems of failing schools?

Now to be fair, I don't see mayors and city councils as being our primary problem. It is a much more simple problem than that.

defunding ? Nah they collect a fortune in property taxes in NY for the purpose of funding schools . I have a very small property and pay $1200 a month in property taxes . You could build the schools with gold bricks for all the money that goes into the schools .And a good percentage of the taxes I pay are ear marked for schools other than in my district . It's not the teachers .They try .But I do call out the unholy alliance between the teacher's unions and the elected officials ;mostly because they stand in the way of necessary reform.

defunding ? Nah they collect a fortune in property taxes in NY for the purpose of funding schools .

You need to make up your mind. One post earlier you said, "My observation is it has always been a process of defunding, and redirecting resources." So which way is it?


But I do call out the unholy alliance between the teacher's unions and the elected officials ;mostly because they stand in the way of necessary reform.

That is a factor to be sure, but still a long ways from being number one. There are many outstanding schools which have a unionized staff.

What reforms are you speaking of?

those were my comments . necessary reforms like charter schools which were working great until comrade Sandinista Bill with the backing of the unions suppressed them btw I said I do not blame the teachers unionized or not . It's the union leadership that fails .

Whoops!! My apologies. I had been messaging with Tal and, seeing the "T", just assumed it was him.

As to reforms, it is really tough to take the approach that we have to keep all the students in school, no matter how they behave. There are many schools where most of the kids want to learn and have a good school, but a relatively small minority of thugs and problem students keep the school in such turmoil that progress is really tough. I don't see any easy solutions. Charter schools can be one avenue to try. Privatization is another option worth looking at. A revival of true family values would be enormously helpful. And yes, the unions are sometimes a significant problem.

My wife was a teacher in one of the high schools where problem students were 'dumped ' . It was really quite a challenge but at least they were separated from the students who's education would've been compromised by teachers having to constantly address behavioral issues

It was really quite a challenge but at least they were separated from the students who's education would've been compromised by teachers having to constantly address behavioral issues.

She should have gotten hazardous pay.

agreed I was concerned ,but she didn't mind the occasional breaking up a fight.

I’m not going to argue with anyone about their experience in inner city schools. I’m a public school teacher in an area considered impoverished. I’ve taught in that area for more than 20 years. What I can say is that each school has its own environment. My current school is public, but we are a school of choice. That means parents must transport their child to school personally. We require uniforms and have very high expectations. Our test scores are amazing and our teachers are top-notch. The wait list is huge. I have never worked so hard in my life, but the rewards are wonderful. So, what I’m trying to say is that if a parent wants a better education for their child, it’s worth looking outside their neighborhood school. Ask most teachers if they pay for their health insurance and they’ll say they do. Presidential candidates take note!

Choice is a good thing. That is being denied to too many parents. and teacherjenn4 ;I applaud your tireless efforts .

Choice is a good thing. That is being denied to too many parents.

That would be an enormous step forward.

Choice is a good thing. That is being denied to too many parents. and teacherjenn4 ;I applaud your tireless efforts .
Thank you! Summers are shorter than ever, but I can see retirement is not so far off, thank goodness.


That would be an enormous step forward. I’m not sure why more school districts don’t create schools of choice. If they don’t abide by the rules, they’re done.

I’m not sure why more school districts don’t create schools of choice. If they don’t abide by the rules, they’re done.

That's a really good question. In one district I used to work in, a city of about 35,000, parents could choose to send their child to a different school in the district as long as the school had room for them. The parent had to transport the child, and the child had to behave, but a year after I left they decided to drop that. In our case, out of about 400 students, about 100 were of that transfer variety.

One thing that tends to work against choice is the fact that the governing officials of the district lose that aspect of control. Federal court decisions also can be a real problem.

What did they do with the kids on those waiting lists, when there is no more room? Why are all schools not meeting the same standard? What of those families with no transportation or who work those hours where they cannot drop off and pick up their kids? What about those families that can't afford child care or have special needs kids, or even the extended family support? A town of 35,000 has an inner city? Or did you mean a poor section of town?

I have said before how teachers are the pillars of the community, under valued but dedicated, and I also feel schools are the foundations of the community. There is something inherently wrong with a community that has a dilapidated building for a school and those are found in the real inner cities where its so easy to suck and redirect the resources away from the community that needs them.

My kick about school choice is some, MOST, don't have that choice. I worry about those left behind that their needs cannot be met.

My kick about school choice is some, MOST, don't have that choice. I worry about those left behind that their needs cannot be met.

I'm thinking the answer is two fold. First, run all schools properly. It is not a money problem, it's a will problem. We must have the will to be sure that all schools are orderly and focused on learning. Secondly, we should recognize that parents have authority over their own children, not the government, so parents should be free to enroll their children where they want. Yes, available room can be a problem as can transportation, but the world is not a perfect place. It would still be an effort to maximize liberty.

And yes, medium sized towns have inner city areas.


Why are all schools not meeting the same standard?

In part it's because not all schools have the same students. It's like asking why all football teams don't go undefeated.

Good laugh for the morning.

49188

Aw man, still having trouble with those attachments! I really needed a good laugh. The dem debate just didn't do it.

Tried it again. Copy and paste won't work anymore, or at least not for me. Oh well.49189

JL 2 Me 0

Okay ya got a chuckle from me! TY

I figured you'd like it. There's one in every family!!

She would've won the day if she started speaking Cherokee .

BTW this is my new favorite Democrat candidate . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JA6gYXEdwY

i just donated $1 to her campaign so I can get on a mailing list .

Anybody but the dufus.

No you did that last time, anyone but Hilliary, don't do it again

I voted for Hillary, and despite her poor Electoral College showing the bigger picture was the turnout in some areas that counted the most by dems in the middle of the country. 100,000 votes or less in 5 key states is hardly a mandate, or a huge endorsement and that pesky Vlad looms as large as ever. Even if the dufus gets elected again the dufuscans in the senate may not be around to protect him as they are now.

One can hope.

I voted for Hillary, and despite her poor Electoral College showing the bigger picture was the turnout in some areas that counted the most by dems in the middle of the country. 100,000 votes or less in 5 key states is hardly a mandate, or a huge endorsement and that pesky Vlad looms as large as ever. Even if the dufus gets elected again the dufuscans in the senate may not be around to protect him as they are now.

One can hope.

get over it, the electoral college elected Trump which proves that the population of a few states cannot run the country

I've been over it. It is what it is and dems must do better. Simple as that.

dems must do better.

Probably could be said of both parties.

Yeah true, but if dems don't do better at turnout we get the dufus and a dufuscan senate again. That's a horrible thought to me. More of the same crap for two years at least? We can do better.

I've decided ....Williamson is going to be my write in candidate .

I can't say that's a bad choice. Harris's and Warren's debate performances have gotten them traction, poor Joe's showing has hurt him for now. It's still rather early though.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/859507720814305281/nTvKAGL6_bigger.jpg
(https://twitter.com/marwilliamson)
Marianne Williamson

@marwilliamson

(https://twitter.com/marwilliamson)Left wing establishment elitism is no less dangerous than Right wing establishment elitism because it undermines the energy needed to create real change. The wisdom of the American people is the only safe repository for power. Claim it; don’t give it away.

Sounds good but I fear you will be caught in no choice land after the nominations when it will be a dem, maybe you don't like against the dufus. If Ms Williamson IS somehow the nominee though, she will have my vote.

I vote for the irrelevent because my vote has no relevence in NY State .

I vote for the irrelevent because my vote has no relevence in NY State .

Like mine in the Great State of Texas?

well this is the price of living in a democracy and having a minority opinion. It sucks when your party doesn't get elected but take heart, your friends knew who to elect

Can't blame it on the Electoral College either! Bummer!

if roles were reversed ,the Dems would swear by the Electoral College . I swear by it anyway. What is intolerable is a tyranny of the majority .

I've been skeptical of EC for years, for I think the same reasons as you, the tyranny of the majority to play political games, and state party bosses rigging the system, but to be fair the founders probably were rigging the sytem since it's inception. They knew about the politics and didn't trust the ordinary citizen. The original house of reps was balanced (?) by the elite picked senate back then. Bet their heads would pop at the evolution of the system they put in place.

You're right though we holler foul when we lose. Thank God the EC only applies to the presidency, but even still it gives us a very unpopular president, with no real mandate, but then again Hillary would be in the same boat wouldn't she, with no congress behind her whatsoever though? No doubt she would be under impeachment with little hope of surviving her first year let alone accomplish anything useful. I still want Scottie to beam me up. Anyplace but Earth is more attractive to being subjected to the constant hollering of this prez, and I wonder how people with no hobbies survive.

if roles were reversed ,the Dems would swear by the Electoral College . I swear by it anyway. What is intolerable is a tyranny of the majority .
Tell me, Tom, when have you been subject to the tyranny of the majority, Your electoral results would suggest that the results hang on a knife-edge with a few basis points separating them, unless it is that the majority decides to vote which appears to be rare

Tell me, Tom, when have you been subject to the tyranny of the majority, Never ,the electoral college ,the bicameral legislative branch ,the separations of powers the guarantee of rights in the Constitution and the amendments ,and our federal system prevents a tyranny of the majority . That's why it is disturbing that people are buying into these ideas like scrapping the electoral college ,the Senate and even states in the interest of the "will of the people " .

Small federal government is a great safeguard.

Never ,the electoral college ,the bicameral legislative branch ,the separations of powers the guarantee of rights in the Constitution and the amendments ,and our federal system prevents a tyranny of the majority . That's why it is disturbing that people are buying into these ideas like scrapping the electoral college ,the Senate and even states in the interest of the "will of the people " .

I've never heard of scraping the senate, or states and getting rid of EC requires a constitutional amendment so none of that is likely to happen any time soon so it's just talk at this point.



Small federal government is a great safeguard..

I think it should be big enough to be efficient, but what protects minorities from the states? So what can a small government be a safeguard for?

I think it should be big enough to be efficient,

At it's present size, it is running a deficit of hundreds of billions of dollars a year. So much for efficiency.


but what protects minorities from the states?

The Constitution. It does not take a large fed government to enforce the Constitution. Besides, the issue of state sponsored discrimination against minorities is the least of their problems now. Wasn't true in the 60's, but it is true now.


So what can a small government be a safeguard for?

Protection from the tyranny of elected and appointed officials who believe their job is to run our lives for us. Everything from gay marriage to Obamacare to ridiculous fed regulations to interference in education to seat belt regulations, and on and on it goes. I would much, much prefer they do much less.

so you don't like the nanny state then, but you elected these people

I've never heard of scraping the senate, or states and getting rid of EC requires a constitutional amendment so none of that is likely to happen any time soon so it's just talk at this point.
admit it ;you want all the above .

Here is a Dem icon in the House proposing the elimination of the Senate . The Senate is the product of the Connecticut Compromise .It was diluted mightily by the 17th Amendment .
https://www.vox.com/2018/12/4/18125539/john-dingell-abolish-senate

Here is a Compost Editorial 3 years ago proposing the elimination of states .
https://www.washingtonpost.com/

As you know many states are entering into a compact designed to make the EC irrelevant .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

As you know many states are entering into a compact designed to make the EC irrelevant .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

Perhaps elected government is becoming irrelevant 150 years after government of the people, for the people, by the people should not perish, etc. but surely the concept of a house of review, a states house is somewhat irrelevant when the house of representatives can barely do their job

Given the challenges and no real groundswell of support to overcome those challenges I just write it off as just another idea, just as I do most of the loony right wing stuff that's out there. No telling what ideas pop up next from the left or right, but if they can't gain support and be implemented they are just talking points.

Let me know when it gets serious.

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be gone troll