Donald the Crazy announced an immediate withdrawal from Syria since he had defeated ISIS. Top-level military men bailed out of his administration because that was a lie. Bolton declared the opposite, and the Head of State of Turkey refused to meet with Bolton because “America is nuts”. Good point, Erdogan.


Orangehead wants his wall built, so what does he do? Well what any sane person would do – he refuses to pay wages to almost one million workers and insists some of them work anyway without pay. Nobody on the planet has yet figured out what one has to do with the other. Meanwhile, sick people can't get medical treatment, mortgages are going unpaid, and babies can't get their milk. What does idiot boy say? “They'll adjust”.


Donald the Genius (“I'm smarter than almost everybody and have big words”) has caused agriculture losses in the billions because he doesn't understand how trade works. Payments to farmers have been stopped because he doesn't understand how a shutdown government works. Donald the Dope says he will move money intended for Hurricane relief in Texas, Florida and Puerto Rico to build his wall, but he can't because he doesn't understand how Congress allocates funds.



Then there are the border agents who he claims “love” him. They're suing him for lost wages.
Today the Air Traffic Controllers sued Trump for lack of due process.
TSA is next.


Oh yeah, remember Mexico paying for the wall – he denies saying he ever claimed they would pay it with cash or a check or something like that - “directly”. This in spite of literally hundreds of videos proving that is EXACTLY what he said! He now claims the money will be “paid” by Mexico via the new trade agreement (which hasn't even been approved yet by Congress, and which will not generate nearly enough federal revenue to pay for a wall).


Just another day in the deliriously dizzy world of a demented president.

Don't worry, it will soon all be over, no matter what the outcome

If only we had elected that emotionally stable, thoroughly honest, and highly accomplished democrat Hillary Clinton. I'm sure things would be much better.

When a party runs a mediocre candidate like Hillary, they shouldn't complain when the other party wins the election. Trump is certainly not a great president, but with unemployment numbers at record lows, I'm willing to cut him some slack.

As to the government shut-down, Mr. Obama did the same thing over Obamacare. The dems in congress are as responsible as Trump is, but I notice you had no criticism for them.

If only we had elected that emotionally stable, thoroughly honest, and highly accomplished democrat Hillary Clinton. I'm sure things would be much better.


You got THAT right!

I forgot to enable the EXTREME SARCASM font on that paragraph.

While we were sleeping ,the left exposed their true open borders positions.



“It would come from those of us who be­lieve we’ve al­ready given enough wall fund­ing away,” said Rep. File­mon Vela (D., Texas). “I would go much fur­ther than that. I would tear the ex­ist­ing struc­ture down.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/wall-impasse-frustrates-many-newly-elected-house-democrats-11547380801

They do not have an open-borders position.

What about the Eastern Coast, the Pacific Coast, the Canadian border? They're open. $1.7 million worth of fentanyl was seized at the Port of Philadelphia last summer. Highly potent fentanyl-based opioid products – illegally produced and trafficked into Canada by overseas drug laboratories and sold for astronomical profits – have caused hundreds of deaths, all while authorities are helplessly watching. That opioid stream is flowing south into this country.

What about the Eastern Coast, the Pacific Coast, the Canadian border?

Those areas are not open in the sense that anyone can just walk through at any time. There are still laws that apply, but they are not where we have a half million illegal immigrants a year trying to just walk in. If the port of Philly is "open", then how did they catch the fentanyl product?

I know because I deal with imports that the ports are NOT open. I spend sometimes 2 or more weeks waiting for FDA and customs releases .

Those areas are not open in the sense that anyone can just walk through at any time. There are still laws that apply, but they are not where we have a half million illegal immigrants a year trying to just walk in. If the port of Philly is "open", then how did they catch the fentanyl product?
There are no walls on the Pacific and Atlantic coasts and at the Canadian border. How do we catch illegal drugs and keep out illegal immigrants? How do we close those weak/open boundaries?

show me the armada of illegals trying to enter by sea . If they do come here by sea then they have a valid visa. That some of them allow their visa to expire is a separate issue that also needs to be addressed. Of course all they have to do is settle in sanctuary cities and states to secure their illegal presence . Gavin Newsom's California budget proposal would have state taxpayers fund an additional $260 million of taxpayer's money to pay for illegal's healthcare . No problem . Progressive socialists always find ways to confiscate other people's money . As Sandanista Bill in NYC says .

“Brothers and sisters, there’s plenty of money in the world. There’s plenty of money in this city. It’s just in the wrong hands,”

“Brothers and sisters, there’s plenty of money in the world. There’s plenty of money in this city. It’s just in the wrong hands,”



Yes indeed but does he have plans to take it away from the wrong people, his constituent super rich. No, he wants to take it away from the middle class and make the super rich richer, and no thought of giving it to the poor, because the poor are always with us

I'm not talking so much about illegal people as much as illegal drugs.

4 Six states account for 58% of unauthorized immigrants (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/): California, Texas, Florida, New York, New Jersey and Illinois. But individual states have experienced different trends. From 2007 to 2016, the unauthorized immigrant population decreased in a dozen states: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Illinois, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York and Oregon. In three states, the unauthorized immigrant population rose over the same period: Louisiana, Maryland and Massachusetts.
5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/)

I guess we need walls around New York, New Jersey, Florida, and Illinois. Plus Louis, Maryland, and Massachusetts.

I guess we need walls around New York, New Jersey, Florida, and Illinois. Plus Louis, Maryland, and Massachusetts.

Why don't you economise and build one around Washington?

They settle in NY and NJ and the states you mention in many cases . That does not make those states the entry point .

They weren't caught until they got to Massachusetts?

They settle in NY and NJ and the states you mention in many cases . That does not make those states the entry point .


And Trump's declaring an emergency does not make it an emergency! And why didn't he do anything when he had both houses?

Answer: the whole thing is nothing but a setup to signal his core group of supporters. Trump cares nothing about drugs, immigrants and children dying on Christmas Day while under the protection of his ICE.

When will you Trump supporters see him for what he is - a man so self-obsessed he will do literally anything to get more influence, power and money.

a man so self-obsessed he will do literally anything to get more influence, power and money.
]

The influence and power part I understand but needing to suspend certain operations, how does this make him more money?

When will you Trump supporters see him for what he is - a man so self-obsessed he will do literally anything to get more influence, power and money.

I think you are confused. That's a description of Hillary.

]

The influence and power part I understand but needing to suspend certain operations, how does this make him more money?



His base voters, supporters, and sycophants, love him for his fighting for their cause and building his wall, and destroying the government, and if he doesn't he no longer can scare the repub congress into standing with him. That's worth more than money right now, amid his considerable growing opposition and a national election looming in 2020.


I think you are confused. That's a description of Hillary.

Fits the dufus even better.

more from the Democrat open border party . Beto O'Rourke “That wall in itself is a racist reaction to a racist myth that does not reflect the reality of this country at all.” When the left has nothing else they charge racism. Law and order at the border has nothing to do with “racism “. How many illegals is "Beto "(aka Robert Francis ) housing in his home ?

Here is the list of countries with the highest number of people on the waiting list to get visas . ie LEGAL ENTRY :


Country Applicants
Mexico 1,229,505
Philippines 314,229
India 298,571
Vietnam 231,519
China-mainland born 231,519
Bangladesh 169,231
Dominican Republic 146,160
Pakistan 115,625
Haiti 94,506
El Salvador 64,868
Cuba 55,847
All Others 840,393
Worldwide Total 3,791,973
https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Immigrant-Statistics/WaitingList/WaitingListItem_2018.pdf

There is NOTHING racist about our immigration policies .

Really false narrative by you conservatives since we prefer the humane process for our fellow humans to the inhumane way YOU enforce the laws, and justify your cruelty with insane rhetoric and fearmongering against our south AMERICAN neighbors desperately fleeing the horrendous conditions of their lands no different than the Euro immigrants that came before them.

The dufus is a racist and those that listen and follow his lead are too.

"The dufus is a racist and those that listen and follow his lead are too."



What people say when they have no rational arguments. Lowest black and hispanic unemployment figures in history, but Trump is a racist. Yes. That makes perfect sense.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49897219_10155699211052471_6049032510917050368_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=eb430418adce3fb4df52205d261fcfc2&oe=5CBAFB91

fleeing the horrendous conditions of their lands no different than the Euro immigrants that came before them. never before was fleeing economic conditions a rationale for asylum. Yes my ancestors came here . They did it LEGALLY . I can assure you the conditions in Ellis Island were far from what you define as humane .

"The dufus is a racist and those that listen and follow his lead are too."


What people say when they have no rational arguments. Lowest black and hispanic unemployment figures in history, but Trump is a racist. Yes. That makes perfect sense.




About time but I doubt the dufus contributed to an already increasingly robust economy. Like his fortune... he inherited it, and yes there is empirical EVIDENCE to that fact.

[LEFT] never before was fleeing economic conditions a rationale for asylum. Yes my ancestors came here . They did it LEGALLY . I can assure you the conditions in Ellis Island were far from what you define as humane .

I wasn't even speaking of the economic conditions in my reference to desperate conditions, and seeking asylum is LEGAL in America. The Dufus's process to verify such a claim is inhuman, and I never heard of Euro's being separated and the kids put in cages, nor the conditions being inhuman. Not saying migrants weren't treated cruelly by citizens though, but far better than the ones they stole to do the labor of a new land of which there is no comparison.

I got no sympathy to those that holler how LEGAL their peeps are. Look who decides whose legal and who ain't. I remember when Cubans were legal if they could make land. Heck Tom, a brother can't hangout at a Starbucks without getting rousted by a cop so spare me that LEGAL BS!

more from the Democrat open border party . Beto O'Rourke “That wall in itself is a racist reaction to a racist myth that does not reflect the reality of this country at all.” When the left has nothing else they charge racism. Law and order at the border has nothing to do with “racism “. How many illegals is "Beto "(aka Robert Francis ) housing in his home ?

Here is the list of countries with the highest number of people on the waiting list to get visas . ie LEGAL ENTRY :

https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Immigrant-Statistics/WaitingList/WaitingListItem_2018.pdf

There is NOTHING racist about our immigration policies .

Ok so somewhere in the others are those from Africa, Europe, what this tells me is your entry policies are racist, 2 million of those "applicants" are hispanic, so you have NAFTA which should have made Mexico a workers paradice but people want to escape to your utopia. I do question the statistics when the same number are seeking entry from China and Vietnam

Trump is a racist.

In 1979, while running the Trump Organization, he was charged by the Feds with racial discrimination against blacks wanting to rent apartments in Queens. He responded with a massive counter-suit and calling the Feds "gestapo" and "storm troopers". His counter-suit was dismissed.

Since then he has shown himself to be a racist again and again by his own words. The black and hispanic unemployment stats have nothing to do with Trump. The current economy started well before Trump was elected. We can thank Obama for that.

Since then he has shown himself to be a racist again and again by his own words. The black and hispanic unemployment stats have nothing to do with Trump. The current economy started well before Trump was elected. We can thank Obama for that.

So if the economy improves under Obama, he get credit, but when it improves under Trump, he gets no credit. Yet another completely absurd statement.

The economy has improved and is still improving under Trump, but he had nothing to do with that. You do notice how things are falling apart now....

Economies ebb and flow in a cycle, and creating uncertainty as has been done deliberately for political purposes will reverse gains

The economy has improved and is still improving under Trump, but he had nothing to do with that. You do notice how things are falling apart now....

Yes, and da Vinci had nothing to do with the Mona Lisa.

Finally the repubs have made Iowa congressman Steve King answer for his overt racist statement over the years.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46872613

What took them so long?

In the meantime, good ole Mr. Obama was buddies with Louis Farakhan, one of the biggest racists on the planet. I guess that was OK. Wonder what took so long on that? As I'm fond of saying, it's all about politics.

https://d15zn84cat5tp0.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/DSCN0441obama-shopped-3-804x603.jpg

Is not BLACK nationalism a logical reaction to the years of suffering powerlessly under the terrorism of white racism? I refer you to the slave revolt led by Nate Turner, and the civil rights protests of the south in the 60's, much of it occurring in your own back yard.

So it's OK if you are black to be a racist? Is that your argument? Black nationalism is just fine, it's just that white nationalism that's bad. Wow. I can scarcely believe you are making that argument. It's stunning.

I'm happy to be on the side that despises all of it.

Most of the civil rights protests in the 60's were peaceful and were not even close to a move for black nationalism. Yeah, it was in my backyard, and most whites had sympathy for their cause. It is still a stain on the history of my state that we took so long to recognize equality. That would be a valid statement.

Read my post again. I never said black nationalism was okay, but a logical reaction to white racism. Clearly the white nationalism has a greater more profound effect and has the advantage, so lets not pretend Farrakhan's rhetoric even comes close to the atrocities of the klan, or any other discriminatory practices over the years. Disappointed that you attempt to equate the two.

Even more disappointing is your lack of understanding on the subject claiming how peaceful the protests were when many were beaten, fire hosed, jailed and murdered, before it was peaceful. Yeah I know you guys have recognized equality, in words anyway, but I'm not sure your minority population would agree, unfortunately.

At least you are open to the conversation, I give you that my friend.

And you, my friend. I enjoy our exchanges and do consider what you say.

As to equality, guess which state has the greatest number of black elected officials. If you guessed Mississippi, you get to go to the front of the line! I'll put our equality up against your state any day of the week.

So what yo proving, emancipation works 150 years later where the population is biggest, or yo proving all the white folks has moved out

Well, the white folks have not moved out. Amazing how much it takes to get you to simply admit that a great amount of progress has been made.

Progress, is that something akin to congress?

The government is shutdown because the dufus wants a wall. What's not known is that for years the cartels have been smuggling drugs and people underground, since the fence was built.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel


US–Mexico[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Smuggling_tunnel&action=edit&section=9)]


As of September 30, 2015, 183 illicit cross-border tunnels have been discovered in the United States since Fiscal Year 1990.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel#cite_note-6)


Today I watched as a reporter for MSNBC go down a 70 foot deep tunnel from Mexico headed for the US, under highways and airports. Everywhere in the world where there is a wall, there are tunnels being dug.

The government is shutdown because the dufus wants a wall. What's not known is that for years the cartels have been smuggling drugs and people underground, since the fence was built.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel

Surely then there are other weapons to stop the tunnel builders, an inventive nation like US should have high tech weapons, but then maybe they are only good at building flying bricks. The Philippines has the right idea start executing drug dealers and drug smugglers, eventually you will have less of them and why not attack the source of supply instead of enabling it






Today I watched as a reporter for MSNBC go down a 70 foot deep tunnel from Mexico headed for the US, under highways and airports. Everywhere in the world where there is a wall, there are tunnels being dug.

And what is obvious is someone knows where these are

Walls do not make illegal entry impossible. They make illegal entry more difficult. That is true everywhere there are walls. People manage to break out of prisons, so I guess we just need to do away with walls around prisons. Is that how your logic works?

No my logic works as stop locking up people for minor crimes and deal severely with those who don't respect others.

No my logic works as stop locking up people for minor crimes and deal severely with those who don't respect others.

That's funny. You go from talking about walls to talking about minor crimes, and you call that logic? Walls work. They are used everywhere. They don't work perfectly in the same way that door locks and alarm systems don't work perfectly. Nothing will completely stop illegal immigration, but the wall will slow it down enormously. If people have to go from simply walking across the border to having to dig a 300 foot long tunnel, then we have made great progress.

Half the illegals came legally and stayed after their permission expired.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/canadians-not-mexicans-represent-largest-number-of-visa-overstays-in-the-u-s-according-to-department-of-homeland-security



OTTAWA — U.S. President Donald Trump may want to build a wall along the Mexican border, but, in recent years, studies suggest the majority of unauthorized immigrants settling in the U.S.
have arrived legally (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber-illegal-border-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216)
— not by crossing the border unlawfully.


5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/)



The number of unauthorized immigrants living in the United States was lower in 2016 than at any time since 2004. This decline is due mainly to a large drop in the number of new unauthorized immigrants, especially Mexicans, coming into the country.


About that Northern Wall...!

The vast, vast majority of illegal immigrants are from south of the border, so why would we need a northern wall?


2012CountryPopulation
1. Mexico6,720,0002. El Salvador690,0003. Guatemala560,0004. Honduras360,0005. Philippines310,0006. India260,0007. Korea230,0008. China210,0009. Ecuador170,00010. Vietnam160,000All

https://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000845

JL, those are figures from 2012 and earlier. The numbers have gone down during the past six years. The big need now is asylum from violence in Central American countries.

That's funny. You go from talking about walls to talking about minor crimes, and you call that logic? Walls work. They are used everywhere. They don't work perfectly in the same way that door locks and alarm systems don't work perfectly. Nothing will completely stop illegal immigration, but the wall will slow it down enormously. If people have to go from simply walking across the border to having to dig a 300 foot long tunnel, then we have made great progress.

I don't think there is any evidence prison walls work except that they take the criminals out of circulation, but more criminals arise so they do nothing to stop criminality. Undoubtedly border walls have similar effect and undoubtedly building that tunnel is a crime but I have said in another thread create a legal barrier and it will be a detterent

JL, those are figures from 2012 and earlier. The numbers have gone down during the past six years. The big need now is asylum from violence in Central American countries.

Not sure that is true, but even if it is, the point was that there is no need to build a wall to keep out those darn Canadians as Tal suggested.


I don't think there is any evidence prison walls work

There is no evidence prison walls work? Wow. What a statement. I think the fact that they keep the prisoners in is pretty good evidence. No one has suggested anywhere in this thread that prison walls somehow stop "criminality". They do a fantastic job of preventing prisoners from crossing the prison "border".

Not sure that is true, but even if it is, the point was that there is no need to build a wall to keep out those darn Canadians as Tal suggested.



There is no evidence prison walls work? Wow. What a statement. I think the fact that they keep the prisoners in is pretty good evidence. No one has suggested anywhere in this thread that prison walls somehow stop "criminality". They do a fantastic job of preventing prisoners from crossing the prison "border".

Please don't take my words out of context you know very well I said as a deterrent to criminal activity and just maybe the great wall of Trump, not to be confused with making america great, will stop people crossing and act as a deterrent unless you think that the possibility that someone could build a tunnel is an excuse for not doing it at all

Once you keep out Mexicans, you can work on keeping out Canadians and then yippie no one will have to go to america

His base voters, supporters, and sycophants, cherish him for his battling for their motivation and building his divider, and annihilating the administration, and if he doesn't he never again can alarm the repub congress into remaining with him. That is worth more than cash at the present time, in the midst of his significant developing resistance and a national decision approaching in 2020.

I guess I don't get your point. This is your full quote. "I don't think there is any evidence prison walls work except that they take the criminals out of circulation..." Isn't that the same thing as saying that prison walls work and do what they are designed to do? I've never heard anyone say that prison walls will reduce crime. Maybe that's what you were trying to point out and I just missed it.

I speak english and may not easily be understood by someone forced to listen to hyperbole

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-again-calls-cohen-a-liar-after-bombshell-buzzfeed-report/ar-BBSqc32?li=BBnb7Kz&OCID=ansmsnnews11



President Trump on Friday again accused his former personal attorney Michael Cohen of lying to reduce his prison time, after BuzzFeed News reported that federal investigators have evidence he directed Cohen to lie to Congress about plans to build a Trump property in Moscow.


Could this be obstruction? Suborning perjury?

Evidence?

Hey enjoy the show, and wait for the next episode!

Sorry I don't do hyperbole well and comic opera not at all

Finally after a firestorm by the media, The Mueller investigation spokesman has issued a statement Friday evening calling the Buzzfeed article inaccurate in their characterization of some of the corroborating documents, emails or witness testimony. That leaves us just with the word of Mr. Cohen, a convicted liar and crook, about being ordered by the dufus to lie to congress about his Moscow project.

To everyone's disappointment the dufus will not be impeached next week, and his circus will continue. Buzzfeed stands by it's story. Meanwhile the NORKS are keeping their nukes, and will have another photo op with the dufus soon. No wall sightings yet, and furloughed government works have been ordered to slave labor until further notice.

Slick Mitch is AWOL on the shutdown, as the senate has blocked the efforts to keep sanctions on the businesses' run by Vlad's good buddy, who stepped down from his position but still gets paid, unlike our own government workers.

The Moscow project was not illegal . Trump had no expectations of winning the election. He ended it after the campaign .Why should he end it before ?Yesterday the desperate left had to give up their orgasmic dream that they had Trump dead to rights on suborning perjury and obstruction. Cohen is not a credible witness . He copped a plea so he could maybe get reduced charges on crimes he committed unrelated to the Mueller investigation. As you said ;the Mueller team disavowed the fake news Buzzfeed story .

It's amazing how intolerant the tolerant crowd is. Their hatred of Trump is something to watch. No lie is too vile for them.

The Moscow project was not illegal . Trump had no expectations of winning the election. He ended it after the campaign .Why should he end it before . Yesterday the desperate left had to give up their orgasmic dream that they had Trump dead to rights on suborning perjury and obstruction. Cohen is not a credible witness . He copped a plea so he could maybe get reduced charges on crimes he committed unrelated to the Mueller investigation. As you said ;the Mueller team disavowed the fake news Buzzfeed story .

No they said parts of the story were inaccurate. We both know Tom, it often takes a rat to send a bigger rat to jail, and beats me why the dufus sycophants had to lie about their activities in the first place if it was legal and above board. No doubt though that Cohen was following the lead of the dufus, about his Russian project, and that's what he testified and pleaded guilty too.

Are you surprised that a lying cheating dufus is surrounded by other lying cheating dufus criminal sycophants? You got doubts the only way the dufus gets his Moscow tower was to kiss Vlads butt, and do as he is told? Appears that way to me and many others. I suspect like JL you are holding your nose at the Dufus's antics to say nothing of the veiled threats he has leveled at Cohen by continuing to throw shade at his ex-fixer bagman, as he orders even more government workers to slave without pay.



It's amazing how intolerant the tolerant crowd is. Their hatred of Trump is something to watch. No lie is too vile for them.


I think there is plenty of cause to revile the words, actions, and behavior of this MORON and to be frank, You should have some sympathy for those that have to hold their noses against the stench that has brought to our country. WHAT! You aren't holding your nose any more? Obviously you are. Any rational person would be.

I think there is plenty of cause to revile the words, actions, and behavior of this MORON and to be frank, You should have some sympathy for those that have to hold their noses against the stench that has brought to our country. WHAT! You aren't holding your nose any more? Obviously you are. Any rational person would be.

In politics, it's all about tradeoffs. If I was in favor of gay marriage, reckless federal spending, government healthcare, and lots and lots of "free" stuff, then I would have been more likely to tolerate Obama's many scandals. Now if I prefer a vibrant economy, appointing judges who actually are committed to the Constitution, and real action on securing our southern border, then I am more willing to tolerate Trump and his many foolish words.

The biggest problem I have with left wingers is this holier than thou fantasy world they live in where Obama was a saint and Trump is the devil.

I must not be a liberal by your definition because no man is a saint in my book, but he was a good man and decent human and very good president. Unlike the dufus whose charity was shutdown and prohibited from any charity work along with his family. He will never be a saint by any stretch of the imagination and there may be HOLLERING by the right about Obamas' and Hillarys' so called scandals but NO EVIDENCE has been found to stand up in a court of law.

EVIDENCE is your standard of wrongdoing isn't it?

but he was a good man and decent human and very good president.

Only by your standards.


NO EVIDENCE has been found to stand up in a court of law.


The multiple scandals during the Obama years stand unquestioned.

Only by your standards.

And those of many voters twice and still respected by some repubs as well especially those that still lament the election of the dufus.


The multiple scandals during the Obama years stand unquestioned.

The right wing noise machine had NO EVIDENCE, just NOISE.

https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcamax.com%2Fnewspics% 2F169%2F16930%2F1693023.gif&t=1547916976&ymreqid=acd6ec88-63d3-b076-1c84-bc0001019e00&sig=FnH1XWgE.gpuLx91EeH5Ug--~C (https://www.arcamax.com/algoodwyn/s-2167048?ezine=641)

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/cache/lw600/169/16927/1692780.jpg

You got doubts the only way the dufus gets his Moscow tower was to kiss Vlads butt, and do as he is told? Appears that way to me and many others. I
He sure has a funny way of showing his fidelity to Puttie . Maybe we will hear him off mike in 2020 telling Puttie that he will have more flexibility after the election .But right now his Presidency has been Putin's worse nightmare . From Ukraine to Poland to the Baltics states to NATO to Syria to energy policy and on and on ,Trump has NOT acted in Russia's interests .

Obama's many scandals
Please elaborate, JL.

On the multiple scandals? Well, I just did it this morning on a different thread, but to restate it: "Actually, there is no question about the IRS scandal, the Veterans Administration scandal, the doubling of the national debt in only 8 years, the Benghazi debacle, the Fast and Furious scandal, "I'll have more flexibility after the election", and the secret meeting with Bill Clinton by the AG, just to name a few. These are all proven instances of dishonesty, scandal, and poor job performance."

He sure has a funny way of showing his fidelity to Puttie . Maybe we will hear him off mike in 2020 telling Puttie that he will have more flexibility after the election .But right now his Presidency has been Putin's worse nightmare . From Ukraine to Poland to the Baltics states to NATO to Syria to energy policy and on and on ,Trump has NOT acted in Russia's interests .

Surely enough evidence that there is no collusion. Putin hoped to benefit from Trump being not Hilliary and while not as hostile, his america first policy does nothing for Russia.

Even if someone could prove collusion, that is not illegal. If you are running for the office of POTUS, and a Russkie offers you some valuable info on your opponent, then you take it. Why wouldn't you? So long as there is no quid-pro-quo, then I don't see a problem with it. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it just doesn't strike me as being unethical. You really think Obama or Hillary wouldn't have done so?

https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcamax.com%2Fnewspics% 2Fcache%2Flw600%2F169%2F16933%2F1693307.jpg&t=1547935112&ymreqid=acd6ec88-63d3-b076-1c8a-8f0001014500&sig=wA_8Ng68UMgesGh72l5nFA--~C (https://www.arcamax.com/jeffdanziger/s-2167443?ezine=640&r=PD_veyUagTYvRnjNxALLrV-ljXTj3khlZoj96eeeVH9DOjUxMDM2OTA1Oko6MTgxNDkzMjpMO jY0MDpSOjY1NTc4NTpTOjIxNjc0NDM6Vjo1MQ)

Nice job of changing the subject.

Even if someone could prove collusion, that is not illegal. If you are running for the office of POTUS, and a Russkie offers you some valuable info on your opponent, then you take it. Why wouldn't you? So long as there is no quid-pro-quo, then I don't see a problem with it. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it just doesn't strike me as being unethical. You really think Obama or Hillary wouldn't have done so?

Is this something about keeping your enemies closer than your friends or not knowing who your friends are? Trump was once a great friend of the Clintons now it would seem they are enemies. There is a time for understanding there is no such thing as a free lunch. The russians do nothing without an ulterior motive or expection of future leverage

Even if someone could prove collusion, that is not illegal. If you are running for the office of POTUS, and a Russkie offers you some valuable info on your opponent, then you take it. Why wouldn't you? So long as there is no quid-pro-quo, then I don't see a problem with it. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it just doesn't strike me as being unethical. You really think Obama or Hillary wouldn't have done so?

You are very wrong as everybody is instructed to report Russian contact, and attempts at contact, to the FBI. Hillary and Obama would not have, and have not done what the dufus and his sycophants have done, or lied about it either.



The russians do nothing without an ulterior motive or expection of future leverage

Of course the dufus can hardly bite the hand that feeds them now can he?

You are very wrong as everybody is instructed to report Russian contact, and attempts at contact, to the FBI.

Who has given that instruction? You are saying that is a law? If so, what law are you referring to?

That's the instruction given by the FBI to all the nominees for president.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-warned-trump-2016-russians-would-try-infiltrate-his-campaign-n830596


The situation was complicated by the fact that the FBI had already become aware of contacts between members of the Trump campaign and Russia, and was beginning to investigate further. Former CIA Director John Brennan has said he told the FBI about a pattern of contacts the CIA observed between members of the Trump team and Russians, and former FBI Director James Comey said the bureau then began investigating in July 2016.

Now maybe you can understand WHY the dufus campaign was investigated in the first place. Even Clete knows what the dufus's "buddy" Vlad was capable of, so I repeat her comment,


The russians do nothing without an ulterior motive or expection of future leverage

Make sense? Now what would you do armed with those FACTS?

Do you even bother to read these articles you link? I could find no place in the article saying that "everyone" has been "instructed" to report contacts or attempts at contacts. It did say the following.


The candidates were urged to alert the FBI about any suspicious overtures to their campaigns, the officials said.


Donald Trump was warned that foreign adversaries, including Russia, would probably try to spy on and infiltrate his campaign, according to multiple government officials familiar with the matter.

The warning came in the form of a high-level counterintelligence briefing by senior FBI officials, the officials said. A similar briefing was given to Hillary Clinton, they added. They said the briefings, which are commonly provided to presidential nominees, (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-was-told-russia-was-blame-hacks-long-debate-n663686)


So is everyone instructed to report all Russian contacts to the FBI?? No.

Would not common sense dictate to a nominee to urge their subordinates of this concern of the FBI? That is exactly why we are, where we are with the dufus being under investigations and the crooks around him going to jail. Maybe the dufus knew what his staff was doing and wanted plausible deniability because he is as sleazy as they are truth be told. Maybe they kept him informed of what they were doing, in his behalf, except Manafort, who was obviously a self enriching agent for Russia.

Yes the dufus's past behavior is enough evidence for me to say that with a lot of confidence.

Maybe... Maybe... Maybe.

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Trump capitulated today . Guessing that he did not want air traffic into Atlanta tied up this week .

He's going to do it again in 3 weeks.

May as well have Pelosi move into the White House .

May as well have Pelosi move into the White House .

Well that would get here out of the House

Well that would get here out of the House.

Pick your poison.

I'm just an interested bystander, but my observations tell me the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know

Prez Nancy. Who better to clean up the mess the dufus has made? Impeach and replace has a nice ring as a campaign slogan.

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Might want to come up with some sort of crime before you start the impeachment process. Just saying.

Patience hoppergrass, let's finish getting the flunkies first. 6 so far. I can't believe you are not at least suspicious that with that many criminals in one group, maybe the head guy is a criminal too. If he ain't he is the biggest dufus in the world.

Patience hoppergrass, let's finish getting the flunkies first. 6 so far. I can't believe you are not at least suspicious that with that many criminals in one group, maybe the head guy is a criminal too. If he ain't he is the biggest dufus in the world.

What is the point of this circus?

all nailed on meaningless process crimes . This latest arrest should drive the nail in the coffin of the Trump Russia conspiracy theory. If Trump was in collusion with the Russians then why were they going to such lengths to find out what WikiLeaks had ? And since lying to Congress has become a crime so egregious that the perp needs to be raided by military armed FBI agents ;and then the perp is thrown into solitary confinement like what happened to Manafort ;then Evita ,Comey ,Strok ,and Clapper be forewarned . This is the new standard for how political opponents will be treated in the USA banana Republic .

Two questions:

1- Why was Stone arrested before dawn with 29 armed FBI agents and 17 vehicles and Manafort was allowed to show up on his own to be arrested?

2- How did CNN come to be there to film the arrest at 6am in the morning? Their explanation of "good journalism" is ridiculous.

great questions . Anyone who is not becoming alarmed at the growing trend of militarization of law enforcement should be. Manafort's apartment was stormed at 3AM while he and his wife were asleep. The FBI did a 'no knock raid ' ,picked his lock . They did show him the courtesy of knocking on the bedroom door before they barged in. I suspect that Mueller invited CNN this time because he was denied the media coverage when he arrested Manafort . Maybe he thought he was arresting El Chapo.

What's a process crime? How is that different from selling dope on the corner, or tax evasion, or ponzi scheming?

Process crimes are among others failure to appear, false statements, obstruction of justice, contempt of court and perjury.In this case they are pretextual ;charges made in the hope of using them as leverage against a defendant in the hope that the defendant turns and becomes a cooperating witness. They are also used to punish the defendant if they don't become said witness. It has been a useful tool for this thug Special Council.

That's sort of what I thought, as local cops do pretty much the same thing against ordinary folks that don't have the means or resources to defend themselves. Why is that different for the white collar rich crowd? Roger Stone or none of Mueller's targets are boy scouts and have a HISTORY of bad shady underhanded behavior. Lying to law endorsement, or congress is a big deal isn't it, and why would they lie?

We aren't talking wrist slapping look the other way crimes are we? So why do you object to KNOWN bad guys being arrested?

prove Stone did anything illegal besides the process crime . It does happen all the time to white collar defendents . Comey nailed Martha Stewart with the same Bs when he had no insider trading case against her . She went to jail for no reason except to advance his career.

Like the process crime is not bad enough. It's just getting started so why beat the drum for Stone... you know his history as well as I do.

I know he is a trickster . In politics that is not a crime . What the indictment does is charge him with an attempted cover up of a non-existant crime .
Even if Stone had actually obtained and shared hacked emails from WikiLeaks (as many news organizations eventually did), it would not have been a crime. Lying to a congressional committee about those noncriminal acts is another matter. I'm not defending him for that . Like I said if equal justice under the law is the criteria then I could recommend a conga line of people who openly and proudly lied to Congress and bragged about it afterwards . John Brennan comes immediately to mind.

He's charged with lying to congress, and other illegal activities, in failing to disclose his active role in trying to get access to what WikiLeaks was doing at the behest of someone(s) from the WH.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-ally-roger-stone-arrested-seven-counts-including-114015240.html



Mueller said in court papers that Stone shared with multiple members of the Trump campaign team advance knowledge he had of a plan by WikiLeaks to release senior Democrats' emails...
The charges mark the first time the Trump campaign has been publicly tied to WikiLeaks by Mueller's team and add to pressure on the president as the newly installed Democratic majority in the House of Representatives plans to step up investigations of him.

That someone was Steve Bannon .

Even if Stone had actually obtained and shared hacked emails from WikiLeaks (as many news organizations eventually did), it would not have been a crime.

prove Stone did anything illegal besides the process crime .

A note on so-called “process crimes.” Imagine if people could lie to investigators, tamper with witnesses, and obstruct justice without penalty. The justice system would grind to a halt. Process crimes are still crimes. Shame on those who try to minimize their significance.

tamper with witnesses,

Kind of like someone who tampers with evidence??


Shame on those who try to minimize their significance.

Sure something to consider.

The only reason Abedin, Mills, Pagliano are not charged with process crimes is because Comey ; who should be indicted himself ;never bothered to investigate.

So say you.