https://www.mail.com/int/business/markets/8885832-macron-scraps-french-fuel-tax-hike-amid-violent-pr.html#.1272-stage-hero1-1

The French government has had to cave on plans to increase taxation to help with climate change. It is time for us all to rise against this insane nonsense. In my own nation we have been subject to a fuel tax for a long time and it is onerous but we did succeed in getting government to back off on a carbon tax, however our energy prices are still onerous so "viva la revolution" time to stick it to that bunch of wankers and make them act

Europe lost common sense well before Macron. Just a matter of whose next. Hard to discuss important global issues when local masses are catching hell.

Which local masses are they? The French local masses are doing it to themselves, they are a nation with a low carbon footprint so investing more in the climate lie is stupid and the people see it. They don't want to pay for what others won't do. I agree with them. Trump is not on board for the Paris accords, maybe he knows something, maybe he doesn't, but what we all know is; no matter what targets are set, and reached, the cry of zero emissions will remain. I'm satisfied that my nation has set a 25% target but the lunatic fringe wants the target to be reached immediately so new more stupid targets can be set. For the record we haven't built a new coal fired power station in zonks and have retired a number of the least efficient stations, but the cry remains, we are not doing enough

Helluva task to reach a consensus plan of action, isn't it?

Not really, if we didn't have idiot groups like the greens it could be done in a bipartisan manner but the rabid left keeps biting the hand that feeds it

go yellow jackets ! The idiots in the centers of powers Paris ,Washington ,Canberra have no clue what their decrees do to the provincials .

Let them eat cake but remember the consequences

Macron says let them eat carbon.

I'm not sure Macron has any idea, his appeasement hasn't worked. We really need to get over these ideas that climate change can be altered by taxation

It was designed as an incentive to develop alternative energy sources, and offset the flaws and actual damages done by burning fossil fuel. Isn't that a good thing? I guess not if you believe burning fossil fuel does NO harm, or if you don't have enough money for your household and in abject poverty.

You don't understand France it doesn't burn coal for power and so the attack is directly on oil as fuel. Develop electric vehicles by all means and give government subsidies to do so but a fuel tax is not an incentive

Big Biz, even fossil fuel companies are always looking to get around taxes and it's only logical to change products to do so. It's always about the money Clete, not the good for humanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax



Prices of hydrocarbon fuels are expected to continue increasing as more countries industrialize and add to the demand on fuel supplies.
[33] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax#cite_note-EIA-2010-Outlook-33)
In addition to creating incentives for energy conservation, a carbon tax would put renewable energy sources such as wind, solar and geothermal on a more competitive footing, stimulating their growth.
David Gordon Wilson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gordon_Wilson)
first proposed a carbon tax in 1973.
[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax#cite_note-34)

https://www.planete-energies.com/en/medias/close/carbon-tax-france

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-budget-carbon-idUSKCN1C21DL

Maybe see the carbon tax as a subsidy to fund and develop alternative energy sources would give a better perspective given the costs of renewables.

Taxation is theft however you look at it, you left leaners don't get it, taxation is a blunt instrument

Everybody does it even Aussies. What are you saying about we humans?

Everybody does it even Aussies. What are you saying about we humans?

Yes, they tax our fuel, and make things difficult, they tax our liquor and our beer but we remain human, so which humans are you referring too? Taxation is still theft, a levy imposed upon those who live in the system

I refer to all humans and being taxed. Where is this tax free state you speak of?

Taxation is theft however you look at it,


No, it isn't. Theft is against the law. Taxation is legal.

See it as tithing. The government passing the basket before you spend it for most citizens through an agreement with the boss. For the wealthy, the government takes their word about what they throw in the basket and they always have options as to what their contribution is.

See it as tithing. The government passing the basket before you spend it for most citizens through an agreement with the boss. For the wealthy, the government takes their word about what they throw in the basket and they always have options as to what their contribution is.

Don't see tithing as a correct expression of doctrine either, Tal and taxation is not tithing since it is far more than 10%

I don't say its doctrine but obviously it's practice, and what does the set level have to do with it? What of those who pay no tithing or taxes?

I don't understand your point

You cannot support the functions of government without a system of taxation.

For the wealthy, the government takes their word about what they throw in the basket

Not sure what you mean there. Are you saying the feds don't keep up with what the wealthy pay in taxes?

You cannot support the functions of government without a system of taxation.

Income tax is a recent innovation

Income tax is a recent innovation

True. Had to pass a constitutional amendment to allow it here. It started as something like a 1% tax on the wealthy. To put in mildly, it has grown. Oh, for the good ole days.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4e1c5ade4bd7c86b22030000-590/and-heres-another-look-at-federal-spending-as-a-percent-of-gdp-for-the-past-century-its-not-way-out-of-whack-these-days-at-least-relative-to-the-last-60-years-but-thanks-to-the-stimulus-its-higher-than-it-has-been-since-world-war-2-and-the-republicans-are-probably-right-its-too-high.jpg

Income tax is a recent innovation

If by recent you mean 1902?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia


The first income tax in Australia was imposed in 1902 by Queensland.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia#cite_note-1)Federal income tax was first introduced in 1915, as a wartime measure to help fund Australia’s war effort in the First World War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World_War).

Wouldn't it be nice if we could get the feds back to consuming a mere 20% of GDP? Amazing how much more money would be available for efficient use in the economy.

If by recent you mean 1902?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia




Yes That's what I mean. Income tax was supposed to be a temporary measure and when the federal government took over all taxation we were told income tax would be abolished before the new millennium. No matter how many modifications there have been to the system we are as far away from that goal as ever

when the federal government took over all taxation we were told income tax would be abolished before the new millennium.

Good grief, Clete. How old are you?? Your mind is amazingly sharp for a man so old. (note: joking)

Wouldn't it be nice if we could get the feds back to consuming a mere 20% of GDP? Amazing how much more money would be available for efficient use in the economy.

Never took you for a hopeless romantic before.

Good grief, Clete. How old are you?? Your mind is amazingly sharp for a man so old. (note: joking)

Yes I am amazingly sharp for my 76 years, Tal, but you see certain statements are not lost to history, and as an accountant I am acutely aware of tax matters, that is why I can say with conviction taxation is theft, politician condoned theft. It is a neat package, telling us of the benefits which never quite materialise. It was even used in France in an attempt to bring about climate change, but the religious fanatics of the AGW lie must not succeed, we cannot be taxed to achieve scientific myth

Yes I am amazingly sharp for my 76 years, Tal, but you see certain statements are not lost to history, and as an accountant I am acutely aware of tax matters, that is why I can say with conviction taxation is theft, politician condoned theft. It is a neat package, telling us of the benefits which never quite materialise. It was even used in France in an attempt to bring about climate change, but the religious fanatics of the AGW lie must not succeed, we cannot be taxed to achieve scientific myth

Yes I often agree with your logic Clete, but must disagree that taxes are theft simply because they often serve a purpose for a bigger picture especially in a country like France that have bigger issues than climate change to address. It cannot be ignored nor can the social challenges of sluggish economics. Macron is challenged for sure, but it's not entirely his fault but he is the LEADER right?

I think we have enough data to know a raise in taxes that doesn't go for the general population, is not very well received, just as a cut in taxes that the general population cannot feel is just as bad an idea.

PS

JL complimented your sharp mind, not me, though we agree on that.