Why did the media change "ISIL" to "ISIS"? ISIL is clearly the correct choice.

Much speculation in the media has gone into why the President prefers the "Levant" acronym to the "Syria" one. Israeli sympathizers say he doesn't want to recognize Israel in the discussions of the Islamic State while Israel bashers say he doesn't want to remind people of all his red lines.

While the Levant is the more accurate name for the region, the Islamic State's eventual goal, they have said, is to rule the entire Dar-al-Islam, or the area of the Ottoman Empire plus Southern Asia.

ISIL apparently is the JV team Obama talks about... ISIS is the major league problem the rest of the world talks about.

I just call them the Islamic State or Jihadistan.

It doesn't matter what you call them, they are the same threat the world has been fighting since before 2001, they have morphed into a more dangerious group than they were then and they have far more wide ranging capability. AlQaeda could be seriously degraded by air strikes, ISIS can't they have learned and they possess planes and tanks which give them advantage over small arms

They could be crushed like the cockroaches they are if there was any will to do so . They are the useful tools of more sinister forces.

How about letting the Arabs reinforce the Kurds for a change.

1994 flashback .... 'How about letting the Africans reinforce the Hutu for a change. ' But speaking about Kurdish genocide ...are you familiar with the al-Anfal Campaign ? That was one of the examples of how Saddam kept stability in the region.

That wasn't just about the Kurds.

and the Islamic State doesn't only attack Kurds.

The Kurds are the only ones offering serious fight on the ground while the arabs stand back and laugh, when the arabs are called on to fight they run away. You think these terrorists could be defeated with an army. Assard told us three years ago he was fighting terrorists and we laughed but these terrorists have defeated the Syrian army who are now defensive, they have defeated the Iraqi army and they have grown strong so they can fight on at least two fronts. To defeat these terrorists you are going to have to put an invasion force on the ground, at least two divisions with support units. You are going to have to fight them at Baghdad and Mosul and all the way to Damascus. You can see why Turkey doesn't want to do it alone, to put themselves on the front line with a restive kurdish population

Turkey doesn't want to do it because for now the Islamic State is serving their interest. Jihadists are being funneled into the ISIS ranks through Turkey . Erdogan is untrustworthy and duplicitous .Turkey should be expelled from NATO as long as they follow his leadership. He has his own caliphate ambitions ....the restoration of the Ottoman Empire.

Ok Conspiracy theory number two; Turkey is complicit with ISIS, they will merge their ambitions for restoration of the caliphate once ISIS have conquered Syria and Iraq which can be anticipated given the reluctance of anyoneelse to actually get involved. Iran will then have to commit to defense of the Shia and the west will sit back and watch from their safe haven

Since Athos seems to think what I said in post 3 was Bovine excrement... how many here in the USA heard MOST if not all of the media calling ISIS from the very beginning... and only Obama calling ISIL like I have.

All the left wing media here outlets in the Washington , DC metro area (radio, TV and newspapers) have always called it ISIS from the beginning until very recently since only Obama was calling it ISIL all along and it was getting pointed out they weren't on the dear leaders talking points closely enough.

Chuck Todd explains why, smoothy --

Why Does Obama Say ISIL and not ISIS? Chuck Todd Explains | Mediaite (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/chuck-todd-knows-why-obama-prefers-isil-to-isis/)

Obama talks out of his rectal orrifice 95% of the time... and the other 5% he really just doesn't have a clue.

Actually, his reasoning makes sense.

Originally in the beginning (yes I remember these things.)... They were talking about Islamic State in Libya, and Islamic State in Syria. (only losesly related entities at the time) Most of these other arguments have come up after the fact by his handlers to not make Obama look like the dufus he is by twisting everything to fit the situation they want.

Instead of just the Islamic State of Euphoria we have today. You have been bombing the crap out of one Islamic state or another for years, I just don't understand why there is an issue in Syria, I expect it is because you don't have any boots on the ground

I hear the strains of the Colonel Boggie March, you know the one, it goes B/S, B/S they played it night and day, B/S, B/S it's all the band could play, repeating endlessly

here's the deal . the emperor has to make it sound like it is a new movement so he can maintain the myth that AQ was defeated on his watch.

But we all know this is the AlQaeda group who fought the US in Iraq, perhaps that is why he uses the acromyn, an acknowledgement that the enemy hasn't changed.

Obama still believes Bush armed them... even though its clear HE himself was arming and paying them. He not only decieves everyone else... he decieves himself.

Time to move on, what ever we might think about amabo, the fact is the problem is beyond Bush era politics. Turkey sides with Syrian rebels but doesn't support US allies the Kurds so the fight has become very lopsided. If ISIS crosses the Turkish border is America committed to boots on the ground under the NATO treaty? Has anyone asked the question whether Turkey is arming ISIS and actively supporting their fight against the Kurds?

They are being armed by Sunni nations ;Turkey being one of them. The US got snookered into briefly arming them with the stockpile we gave to other jihadists to overthrow Q Daffy. We thought we were arming the FSA (whoever they are ).


The answer to your NATO question is yes. We are committed to help defend Turkey if they invoke the terms of the treaty . Turkey sent boots on the ground in Afghanistan ,and still serve there. Turkey also sent troops to the Balkans in the 1990s during the NATO operations to seize Serbian territory . That may have been the 1st tangible move Turkey made in their quest for Ottoman restoration.

So it is clear that Turkey is not an honest broker, but an important lynchpin when it comes to ISIS, any force that attacks ISIS in Syria probably has to stage through Turkey. We should concentrate on throwing ISIS out of Iraq

An attack in the Canadian parliament means that ISIS is suspected and the flowon effect is to increase security in other halls of government such as the Australian parliament, begging the question are the terrorists succeeding in spreading terror. This is a growing problem, stop the sympathisers from travelling and they become problems at home, allow them to go and they send messages back exhorting more followers. For this to be happening the radicalisation must be far more wide spread than is obvious, so what are the security forces doing to curtail such activities. Free speech aside most countries have laws against sedition, etc

All those draconian Canadian anti gun ownership laws worked real well for them I see.

who knows where he obtained a weapon, it would be difficult to enforce such laws with a porous border, but gun ownership may or may not be the issue but radical islam certainly is the issue, another recent convert has gone bizzerk and it begs the question as I have said many times before, Muslims represent a fifth column in western nations. We fail to recognise they are marching to a different drummer and hearing the siren call of Holy War and the reemergence of Islam as a conquering force with medieval values. Remember that convert, pay tribute or die is still in force, it is a religion that doesn't respect freedom at its core

Fifth column to western nations Clete? That's like me saying all Australians are snobs and elitists because I think you are. Or maybe that's all you can grasp is ALL muslims are a threat. Pretty obvious your fear, and hate distort clear reality, and keep you from recognizing the nuances that all religions have in the world.

It's a shame you cannot tell the difference between good and evil, and feed the evil, through blatant unabashed ignorance.

The problem is Tal I can tell the difference between good and evil, all religions are not the same. Where I come from all americans are mad, gun mad, drug mad or just plain mad, but hey as long as you stay where you are and that is the feeling I have about muslims; as long as they stay in the ME, etc. But; they haven't and how many more times will we hear of a muslim terrorist killing innocent people in a western country or targeting non muslims. Wake up Tal, they are not rooting this evil out of their religion. The only acts of terror in recent times against my nation have been perpetrated by muslims, how's the score in your own? Maybe not as high as that but pretty high. Right now we have young Australian muslims at the forefront of this ISIS thing and you have to ask who recruited them? Nice law abiding muslims? or that fifth column I'm talking about

You want to talk about unabashed ignorance, look around you, most of you can't even read a map, any place beyond your coast line is terra incognita

No Clete, the problem is YOU cannot see the similarities of religions because YOU only look for differences, which you blow all out of proportion to reality. In truth, you are no better than the ones you hate, and like most haters, you degrade that which you hate to elevate yourself artificially.

A very skewed value system, to favor yourself. You can't win with the hate you spin, to justify your own FEAR! You are lost in your own delusions and sound as crazy as those you hate on, which seems to be everyone.

tal keep sticking your head in the sand . This clown in Canada converted because he was taught that there was a moral equivalence ;and being a radical Islamist is the cool thing to be.

Who taught him that?

liberal education . look at tal .He is openly making the relativistic,moral equivalence case here .

The shooter was a convicted drug user. Nothing to do with a liberal education.

No Clete, the problem is YOU cannot see the similarities of religions because YOU only look for differences, which you blow all out of proportion to reality. In truth, you are no better than the ones you hate, and like most haters, you degrade that which you hate to elevate yourself artificially.

A very skewed value system, to favor yourself. You can't win with the hate you spin, to justify your own FEAR! You are lost in your own delusions and sound as crazy as those you hate on, which seems to be everyone.


Similarities Tal, that they claim they have similar beliefs but do the opposite and if I dare to point that out I am accused of hatred. I don't need to elevate myself Tal nor do I need to FEAR but the world has reached a point where they have to admit there is a cancer which must be cut out. Too many times have they turned a blind eye to the excesses of one group or another but each group has the same MO they use murder to establish their regime. Evil; when confronted always shouts back look at you, how dare you point out my failings and this is what you are doing, so Tal who's side are you on really?

Yes I DARE!!! You seem to have no problem pointing out everyone else's failings, but get in a huff over your own being pointed out? Obviously Clete, I am not on YOUR side about this matter.

Logic dictates the numbers of ISIS is a small percentage of the greater whole, and only if you accept the premise they claim to be Islamic. They lie, and you buy it. Only a FOOL would believe the utterings of such liars. But thats your fear though isn't it? That they are NOT Islamist?

Your hate cannot let you see that can it? Have heart, you are not alone in this lunacy. I dare you to get beyond it.

Obviously Clete, I am not on YOUR side about this matter.Well Tal that is obvious, but I do want you to reflect that if we are not on the same side against militant Islam then what side are you on? The side of a permissive society where anything goes in the name of FREEDOM but then you have made that abundantly clear. Your own leader has said these terrorists have to be defeated, wiped out but according to you no one must dare to point out they are adherents of an intolerant religion otherwise this is an expression of hatred

They are no more Islamic than the KKK are Christians. Your hate allows you to believe their lies.

You should reflect on that.

They are no more Islamic than the KKK are Christians

If 90% of the Christian world allowed the Klan to dictate the Christian agenda to the rest of the world, the Klan would be precisely as Christian as the Wahabbists are Islamic. As the one interviewer asked: Where are the moderate Muslims calling for peace? The answer is quite simple: they have been executed by the fanatics or are hiding. Thus the entire face of Islam is an illiterate Arab with an RPG. No he's not typical but he has the rest of the billion or so Muslims behind him, reluctantly or not.

They are no more Islamic than the KKK are Christians. Your hate allows you to believe their lies.

The KKK is a particular aborition of your society, you might reflect upon that. ISIS is a particular aborition of their society, neither can exist without a wider acceptance of certain values with the society. As cats has said there are no moderate islamic voices speaking out against them, whether this is because of fear or something deeper we cannot tell, but I judge them by their actions and I think that is a fair appraisal. Muslims are an intolerant group and in their society you would not enjoy freedom of speech

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/muslims-are-speaking-out-against-isis-to-say-you-do-not-repr

Muslims Stand Against ISIS, Too | Junaid Jahangir (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/junaid-jahangir/muslims-against-isis_b_5715563.html)


Sunni and Shii clerics in Iraq jointly drafted and distributed (http://mawtani.al-shorfa.com/en_GB/articles/iii/features/2014/06/17/feature-01) a religious edict to over 50,000 mosques declaring ISIS as an un-Islamic terrorist organization. Sheikh Taha al Karkhi, grand preacher in Baghdad, declared that resisting and standing up against ISIS is a religious duty.
Over 80 Muslim intellectuals, activists and religious leaders in India jointly urged (http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-muslim-intellectuals-slam-isis-brutality-in-iraq-2012096) the United Nations to hold ISIS accountable for its brutality, which they termed as a "crime against humanity" and "religious cleansing."
Over 100 British Sunni and Shii Imams released a powerful video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKjAt6lIlgY) to urge Muslim youth to stay away from ISIS, which they branded as an illegitimate and vicious group. About 5000 Norwegian Muslims rallied (http://www.mail.com/int/news/europe/3060746-norwegian-muslims-rally-islamic-militants.html#.1258-stage-subhero1-1) in Oslo against ISIS.
The Caliph (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw9p1ZLufgc) of the Ahmadiyyah Muslim community and the Secretary General of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, a group (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA7rtob-IN8) representing 57 countries and 1.4-billion Muslims, also forcefully condemned ISIS. The Indonesian President urged (http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/president-yudhoyono-says-islamic-state-embarrassing-muslims/)Muslim leaders to unite their efforts, prohibited Indonesians from joining ISIS and blocked the ISIS Internet sites.
In North America, the two largest Muslim umbrella groups -- Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) -- issued (http://www.isna.net/isna-denounces-isis-attacks-on-iraqs-religious-minorities.html)statements condemning ISIS. CAIR strongly urged (http://www.cair.com/press-center/press-releases/12551-cair-condemns-isis-violence-and-rejects-calls-to-join-extremists-fighting-abroad.html) American Imams and other community leaders to speak out against American Muslims traveling abroad to join extremist groups like ISIS.
Conservative and progressive Muslims are united in their condemnation of ISIS.

World Muslim Congress : Muslims Stand Against ISIS, Too (http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2014/08/muslims-stand-against-isis-too.html)


Yasir Qadhi, a conservative Muslim leader, stated (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152426379988300&id=19667888299) that the Prophet warned us about groups who would spread bloodshed and yet think of themselves as the best of worshipers. He further mentioned that, "no amount of the evils of American foreign policy can justify the murderous rampage of ISIS and its ilk."
On the progressive side, Mike Ghouse of the World Islamic Congress went so far as to call for (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ghouse/muslims-to-dedicate-frida_b_5679118.html) drone attacks against ISIS. From Switzerland academic Elham Maneaurged (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elham-manea/time-to-face-the-isis-ins_b_5688631.html) Muslim communities and nations to look inward and vanquish intolerant dogma and regressive politics to remove ISIS.

Muslims for Progressive Values (MPV) USA President, Ani Zonneveld, tweeted (https://twitter.com/muslimvoices/status/502138522153660416) that IS does not stand for Islamic State but "International Scum." The eighth annual MPV retreat (http://www.eventbrite.com/e/mpvs-8th-national-retreat-in-nyc-tickets-12423197117?aff=eac2) will also focus on countering supremacist ideologies espoused by groups like ISIS.

Your appraisal is based in hate and is irrelevant to reality, and UNFAIR. Your hate makes you lazy, just Google and learn. Then reflect HONESTLY with facts not just prejudiced feelings. Then maybe you can choose to reject the side of FOOLS!

And tal just taking up a point in one of those pieces "
no amount of the evils of American foreign policy You are defending those who see your policies as evil, quite a paradox to leap over there and tell me are their appraisals based on hate, why are you not denouncing them? Who is on the side of FOOLS now?

I think the statement of Zonneveld got it wrong "International Scum." should be Islamic Scum does he really thing there are no Syrians and Iraqi fighting for ISIS? Obviously you don't understand that the International scum he speaks of are some american scum fighting for ISIS

I will admit to hatred of the creed. It started as a personal grief in 78. Everything I have studied about Islam since then, from jihad to taqqiyah to submission to misogyny, has only deepened my disgust and loathing. The few good parts were taken verbatim from the Torah.

Show me the new convert to Christianity ,Judaism ,or almost any other religion who signs up to behead ,murder ,rape ,or blow themselves up. This guy in Ottawa isn't the only one. A recent convert in Oklahoma beheaded a woman. WG the guy was a criminal before converting . Obviously converting did not change his behavior for the better .

It is interesting to note that Islam converts criminals in jails as well a radicalising youth, something about it appeals to the criminal mind, it can't be redemption because Islam doesn't offer redemption

I'm with Tom on this one whatever they are doing the outcomes are not good

Yesterday we had a guy hack at police officers with an ax . One officer was hit in the arm and another in the head before the other officers shot and killed the attacker . His name is Zale Thompson. He had posted on social media according to the press comments that "display a hyper-racial focus in both religious and historical contexts, and ultimately hint at his extremist leaning."

That's the pc way to say he posted jihadist rants. He described "jihad as a justifiable response to the oppression of the 'Zionists and the Crusaders." The press claims that authorities are searching to find a motive . lol

In Israel a Palestinian drove his car into a crowd killing a baby . In Quebec another jihadist ran his car over two soldiers in a parking lot , killing one, before being shot dead by police.

What do they all have in common ? They are Islamist attacks occurring days after the Islamic State called for such lone wolf attacks.

No Tom, they are looney criminals who you listen to, and blame whatever god they name to justify their evil. They make you afraid and you hate some more. That's what you haters like Clete have in common, you listen to the message of the evil fringe lunatics, which is in itself crazy as hell. That doesn't justify your fear of the other 90% who do NOT, that you CHOOSE to hate on.

I guess you haters cannot see that by repeating the rantings of lunatics you help the lunatics make you MORE afraid of the wrong thing.

What came first, the chicken or the egg? the mental illness/antisocial mentality or the religion? Any religion can be twisted to justify mayhem.

I'll go with tal's numbers 10% of a billion people. Maybe any religion can be twisted . But we are talking about one that is twisted .
"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."(Manuel II Paleologus 'Dialogue with a Persian')

You can justify killing with the OT, too.

The great debate of the application of good orderly direction, and man's unique gift of choice. It gets screwed up with man's insistence that his divinity is better than another man's. An age old conflict often solved with the swords of both sides Tom, of which your boy Manual II was no stranger either.

For all the years of evolution and progress we all carry baggage that we are reluctant to unpack.

You can justify killing with the OT, too. and how many Jews do these days ? I'll go further ,the best passages of the Quran were lifted almost verbatim from the OT. Then there are the passages based on the words and actions of the religion's founder.


of which your boy Manual II was no stranger either. he defended the Byzantine capital against a 700 year assault on it by the hordes of Muslims.

He was also exiled to the Ottoman Empire as a hostage too, so what? I could list the many conflicts going back to the crusades, neither side had clean hands. That's what wars were back then. Every freakin' body was trying to conquer and control the world. Little progress has been made. SOS!

Little progress has been made.

Remarkably that seems to be the case here

Little progress has been made because there is no serious effort to delegitimize the Ideology behind jihadistan . tal keeps talking about KKK. But the KKK has been delegitimized in the nation . The remnants are fringe who would not dare walk down the streets in white sheets because they would be taken down by every other segment of society . It does little use to claim every jihadist attack is the actions of the unstable or deranged . The fact that jihadism attracts the unstable is further indictment on it's ideology .Taking down the Islamic State ,and AQ ,and Boko Harum ,and all the other kindred of Cain are important . But ,it is the ideology that has to be defeated to ultimately win.

That's a wrong analogy there Tom they are the kindred of Ismael, the legacy of Abraham, another man who took matters into his own hands rather than wait for God and the kindred of Abraham fight on. You have to be careful whose advice you take or you might create a monster

Now we have to trace all the begets of the bible?

Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions)


The largest Abrahamic religions in chronological order of founding are Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism), Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity), and Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam); the Bahá'í Faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith) is sometimes listed as well.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions#cite_note-9) There are other smaller religions that are also considered Abrahamic like Zoroastrianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism).

I said kindred of Cain because of their murderous ways .

Some have murderous ways Tom, but some do NOT. How would you like to be defined by the murderous ways of your own kindred? (Or your beloved slave holding founders, who wrote ALL men are created equal, yet did NOT extend that equality to ALL men?) Man has a savage past from which he has yet to properly evolve from.

How would you like to be defined by the murderous ways of your own kindred? I judge them by their actions today . The savage past you speak of is on display by the ISLAMIC State .

And we should ignore the savage PRESENT of our own experience with school shootings, and criminals who have abandoned the hoods for local elections?

Or the transgressions of those elected officials who see the light and get another chance to show their family values? You don't have to travel half a world away to find murderous bad behavior.

I'm glad we did not have people with your mentality leading us during WWII .It is regrettable that we have so many of your mindset leading us today. You think we are no better than the jihadists ? I disagree .

My point was that they (and YOU) use the term Islamic, but it's a bald face LIE. The examples I gave to you and Clete, about broad brushing entire populations by the actions of a few make that point.

It is regrettable you or Clete cannot discern between loony criminals who hate, AND kill, and the people who ARE killed. ISIL has killed more Muslims than they have of any other peoples.

ISIL has killed more Muslims than they have of any other peoples. thus my kindred of Cain comment . The Islamic State would not have been able to achieve the level of success they have had without some very powerful backing in the Muslim ranks. I can hear you in 1941 ... not all the Germans are Nazis.

I couldn't agree more with you as the rise of ISIS didn't just happen in a vacuum, or whim. It had a purposeful influx of support from some rich, wealthy, powerful people. They made a monster that is out of control.

All Germans weren't bad or Nazis, as many were deceived, and many more fled. Many died.

Hitler was a monster that was out of control too!

still we had to defeat the whole nation. Same thing with Japan. They were not all part of the Imperial cult . We had to defeat and discredit Shinto.

Defeating ISIS by defeating Islam? Is that your logic?


We had to defeat and discredit Shinto.

Naw, we destroyed a few islands with an A Bomb. Would have worked on Hitler too!

really ? and how many Japanese today worship the emperor ?(and no ;I'm not talking about emperor Zero)

Well I see you have finally come around to the solution as you said it worked on the japanese and would have worked on Hitler and it kept the soviets at bay, now which target should we select Racca perhaps? The problem is ISIS is dispersed even if they have the backing of sunni people, Bomb them to show your resolve and they will fade away, the only thing they understand is fear

Why doesn't Australia bomb them?

We are bombing them in Iraq as part of the effort to contain them and push them back but we are not nuclear armed so we can't deliver a decisive airstrike. Like yourselves we have sent advisors to Iraq. We see this threat for what it is Tal both in Iraq/Syria and in the homeland. We have a muslim population and a number of people have gone from here to fight what is disturbing is some of those are from families who have been here a long time. There are parts of the Muslim community who have been a source of problem here for a long time, not only the source of terrorist activity but also organised crime. We are also bordered by one of the largest muslim countries and they are showing an increasing militance with a large military buildup.

As I see it you possess the capability to deliver the same decisive airpower you delivered in Japan, Europe, Iraq, Afghanistan but you appear hamstrung by an inability to separate military necessity from civilian issues. Korbani is a case in point, the population has fled, anyone who remains has questionable loyalties, same with Racca, why haven't you used a far more effective air campaign, even the Kurds cheer when you bomb ISIS in the town

fair question . Most of Caen's historical district was destroyed by Allied bombs during the Normandy campaign. 1150 civilians were killed even after the vast majority had evacuated .

And you don't want to repeat it, strategy is a strange thing, Anaheim was leveled in the interests of taking a bridge, why so concerned about a civilian population? Remember Dresden. Sudden attack of conscience? Or is it that economically you want this to be a protacted war? Maybe it is that we haven't come to grips with ISIS being worse than the NAZI but give us time we will come to the realisation. Maybe it is the fact that they are the enemy of the enemy of your friend?

The fact is shia muslims can't hide from ISIS because the support for ISIS in the sunni muslim community is larger than we know

IS supporters shot man outside Greenacre mosque: Witness claims - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-03/man-shot-in-face-and-shoulder-in-greenacre/5861636)

Denied the opportunity to join in the fracas in Syria, ISIS supporters are doing a little home grown terrorism and this is what we can expect anywhere that these people have the ascendency in the community. We thought we were isolated enough for this not to happen here, so did the shia immigrant community, but unless, and until, this evil is stamped out we can expect atrocities to occur and whether you like it or not, or believe it or not, it is in the name of religion, it is religious, exploiting an age old religious division

agree . unfortunately here ,the political leaders call jihadist activity "domestic" or "workplace "violence. The emperor is in complete denial and thinks that the pin prick air strikes are "degrading " the Islamic State .

Oh No Tom hundreds are being killed in this little war, read the press, but casualties won't stop ISIS, they will just take some more of the locals out and shoot them to make sure they have no enemies at their back. Air strikes are a blunt instrument, effective against certain targets but if you want to avoid civilian deaths you have to use different weapons too, get your hands dirty. You are supporting the Kurdish mini states now because it suits you to tweak Assards nose, but you do so at the risk of upsetting your turkish allies. It is hard to fight a war where there are three sides. Have you asked yourself why isn't ISIS fighting Assard with the same ferocity they fight the Kurds? ISIS is being used as an instrument by both Iraq and Syria to destroy enemies of the regime

And I suggest the spread of radical ideas in many communities is only a matter of time

Sectarian tensions high, say Australian Muslim leaders - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/05/world/asia/australia-muslim-sectarian-tensions/index.html?hpt=hp_c1)

Let us not think that this is about freedom in any form, it is about an ideology that has at its centre age old conflicts about something that most of us would today consider something that is not worth fighting about. Muslims were not immune to their schisms and that we should still see that fight being carried on thirteen hundred years later is ridiculous, telling us that if nothing else, muslims are primitives.

on a slightly different but related note, this week we laid to rest Gough Whitlam and today the tensions we are talking about in Australia are a direct result of his policies for it was his government that encouraged migration from the middle east and other parts of asia. Like many in Australia I was over his policies in 1975 when he was oustered from government but the reforms lived on to haunt us today. Take a lesson radical reformers you don't know where your policies will lead

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/11/08/Reports-ISIS-leader-critically-wounded-in-air-strike.html

I expect we could put that report up there with the assassination of OBL and it is likely to have much more impact on the fight against terrorism but we can expect that as with OBL it will drive the leadership into hiding. You can try to cut the head off the snake and hope it works but this is a group who have had that head cut off more than once. Setbacks give the forces gathering to fight ISIS opportunity to organise and press any advantage it gives them, as the french say viva la victorie and with estimates of their numbers revised down that might be quicker than first expected

You have to wonder, are we watching a militant group, or a criminal business. Whatever might be happening it is apparent that ISIS fighters have an ability to move freely from country to country. Libya is now under threat from ISIS in a well organised move as fighters return from Syria. This is the west's worst nightmare, that the fighting is not contained to Syria and Iraq

ISIS comes to Libya - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/18/world/isis-libya/index.html?hpt=hp_c1)

There is, perhaps, one advantage the west can exploit the fighters in Libya are much more accessible than those in Syria

and we haven't even mentioned the failed state of Yemen ;and it's strategic local.

Yes Tom the fight has been going on in Yemen for quite a while, not sure if ISIS is involved there but AQAP and the US certainly is. I'm sure the Saudi keep a close eye on Yemen and let's not forget Al Shabbab is almost destroyed in Somalia, their fighters have to go somewhere

the problem is that just like in Syria ,Yemen is a proxy war between radical jihadistan Sunni and radical jihadistan Shia . It appears to me that the emperor is closer than ever for formalizing a rapprochement with the 12ers in Tehran aka radical jihadistan Shia. The cost of this will be recognition of the Iranian nuke and hegemony . We are already assisting them towards those dual goals.

Candidly tom I don't think they are the threat you think them to be. Sure they have a low opinion of your foreign policy, but then who doesn't, and they have been on the receiving end of it more than most, and survived, but it is time to bring them in from the cold before they become even more comfortable with Russia who has no qualms about their nuclear program. Russia is exploiting them and you don't want that to happen because the threat was always Russia.

You can't get anywhere in the UN with Russia on the security council so you have to develop coalitions to deal with problems. One way of dealing with ISIS is to unleash Iran and accept that Iraq is lost to you anyway. It was always going to be so. Assard is even starting to look like the lesser of two evils

I don't think they are the threat you think them to be they won't be if the 12ers are ever overthrown. But so long as they are still in power ,then they are apocalyptic ideologues who will soon have nukes and missiles that can deliver them in the region. It is fortunate that we now will have a Senate that will take down any deal that emperor Neville negotiates with them.

We have fumbled our relations with Russia poisoning the well when both of us have a mutual interest in containing jihadistan. But nothing better showcases the emperor's confusion over foreign policy than this screwy idea that as part of a nuclear deal ,Iran would ship enriched uranium to Russia, and Russia would then process it for 'Iranian civilian usage'. How stupid do they think we are ? And do you REALLY think that they can act as responsible neighbors in the region ? They have never shown that in the past. Instead they have been one of the leading state sponsors of terrorism. What you will have is a rogue terror sponsoring nation with the world's most potent weapon. Oh no doubt one of their proxies will deliver the coup de grace allowing them deniability .

So we should nuke Iran, then nuke Russia? Nice plan!

don't worry ,I'm sure the plan is to drop sanctions on both Russia and Iran and then sing Kum bya while roasting smores by an open fire.

Like you did(doing) with Cuba?

What you will have is a rogue terror sponsoring nation with the world's most potent weapon.

A little like your friends in Pakistan? No wait, they were fighting your enemies so they are OK. I think you have been well trained by the Israeli's to assume that the enemy of my friend is my enemy and this is preventing progress

blaming the Jews again ?

A reference to Israel is not blaming the jews. There is no doubt there is a strong lobby favouring Israel in your nation. No I'm not blaming them but if the Iran thing is ever going to be solved the question of Israel is in the pot, it is a much greater barrier than nuclear energy. I could see a trade off, very logical. You recognise Israel and you can have your nuclear program.

We also have the Palestinian problem, Hamas is like the early PLO, which is now Fatah, only nastier and I see no early solutions to that problem and demolishing houses doesn't help. The Arabs don't want them and nor does Israel and that is the elephant in the room. I could see Israel coexisting with the west bank, that wall has done wonders for calming relations, but you couldn't build one deep enough or high enough in Gaza

ISIS is getting a pounding and suddenly the media has gone quiet. I expect success isn't as important as carnage

People are getting bored by their gruesome videos . They worked initially in their recruitment drive ;and hid one of their great weaknesses. They can't operate as a "state " . Their standing army is still a terrorist group and more important ;they can't provide the services a state is required to provide. They can take territory by massing their troops (making them easier targets to the air campaign) ;but they have maxed out in their ability to hold and govern the territory they seize .

We can give a big hat tip to the boots on the ground. The Iraqi Army has made a come back after it's initial defeats ;and even more important ,the Kurdish Peshmerga has taken the fight to them in Syria . When will the west realize that the Kurds are our natural ally in the region and have earned our support ?

Yes Tom but it is not convenient to recognise the Kurds, it will upset both Turkey and Iraq whose Kurdish populations have nationalistic aspirations and old enemies. If you recognise the Kurds you cast Iraq adrift into the Iranian sea. Now I know that realistically Iraq is lost to Iran anyway, it is logical that the shiite population would want to forge those ties

They had those ties before they discovered oil, so a reversion is only natural.

Yes, in tribal societies traditional ties are of more value than fair weather friends

When I examine the actors in the region and ask 'who do you trust ' ? The Kurds top the list over the Persians and the Ottomans . Iraq I believe will not be able to maintain nationhood . Had we made a long term commitment to them there would've been a chance. But since it appears that the borders forged by Sykes–Picot Agreement are being erased by the Islamic State (and I believe these changes are permanent even if the Islamic State fails in the long run) ; the question is what will the new Levant look like ...and will the west play a part in shaping it ?

The emergence of the Islamic State has proven the fallacy of the emperor's fantasies of a US withdrawal from the region (and other nations like Russia and China have proven his ideas of withdrawing from the world naïve) .Like it or not ,the Islamic State forces us to again play a role in the region .

Unfortunately the emperor has determined that his quickest out is to defer to Tehran. You see it is having dire consequences in the nuclear negotiations where he has allowed a deadline (redline ) to pass again while their centrifuges continue to spin. In exchange for them taking a role as the hegemon ,he has all but conceded the Persian
bomb.
Ankara has proven to be a feckless and unreliable ally . They did nothing while the border town of Kobani was relentlessly pressed by the Islamic State .If I didn't know better I would think they were working in alliance with the Islamic State . More likely is that they are bullies inside their own nation to ethnic minorities like the Kurds ,but do not want their military to demonstrate their worth outside their borders . That means their desire to restore the Ottoman control is all bluster .
The Saudi's in the meantime have proven their vulnerabilities . They are nothing more than a bankroll. They are fearful of the Iranian emergence .They are fearful that the Islamic State will turn it's attention their way . They are now vulnerable because despite the anti-oil and gas administration in Washington ,the US is plowing ahead making itself and the world free of dependence on Saudi light crude.

The power the west has committed to the fight against the Islamic State is probably enough to end their territorial ambition. But it is the Kurdish "boots on the ground " that will end them being a significant threat. For that they should be rewarded and not betrayed .......AGAIN !

Tom I think Turkey is a dishonest broker in this and they see the opportunities afforded by a weakened Syria. They only have to wait and walk in over the ashes, so why expend their forces fighting people who are doing their work for them and what could be better than allowing the kurds to crush ISIS then they crush the Kurds and end the potential for rebellion. When have you known a muslim to be brave when he doesn't have to be? The saudi's will get their just desserts, their wahabbiism will back fire in their face. The US needs to look to the threat possed by Russia and China and ignore Iraq and let the Iraqi fight for themselves, they started this mess. Assard has gotten the message and gone on the offensive against ISIS. He must show himself to be strong now

We don't have to restrict ourselves to 1 or 2 interests in the world disregarding the rest . We have multiple interests and responsibilities . We cannot lead from behind as the emperor would chose. We have seen no nation ,or group of nations ,or international organizations that can fill the void.

If there is a void it is created by you and Putin is quick to be attempting to fill it. You are the self appointed policeman of the world and it is a role that no one wants you in. The UN was long ago set up deal with international disputes but it has been emascalated by the false notion that if someone says no then nothing can be done. You have taken on the role of gathering armies to fight the battles but you don't fight all battles just those that suit you and that gives the lie to what you just said "We cannot lead from behind". Step back, let someoneelse take to lead before you implode

bipolar ,multipolar worlds and international institutions have proven to be unsuitable in conflict resolution.

Step back, let someoneelse take to lead before you implode which nation do you have in mind ?

Does there have to be a specific nation? The US feels the weight of history too strongly, Britain learned to live without empire and the policeman role. France took action in certain parts of Africa recently but it isn't trying to police the world. Australia took action in East Timor and in the pacific, but it isn't trying to police the world, Countries in Africa are taking action in Somalia, but they are not trying to police the world. Just because the "great nations" have made the UN impotent does't mean we need the US specifically to resolve disputes. I think local intervention is a better model when those appointed to act can't act

Evidence of Turkey as a dishonest broker in this crisis

Activists: ISIS Is Now Launching Attacks From Inside Turkey - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/turkey-denies-isis-is-operating-from-its-side-of-the-border/383264/)

Does there have to be a specific nation? I think so . History has shown that multi-polarity is more unstable and war prone than bipolarity or unipolarity.The last time we had multi-polar security arrangements was prior to the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand . Change 1914 to 2014, and Sarajevo to Donetsk,or the Senkaku Islands or the Spratlys .As we see in the Syrian Civil War ,conflicts do not remain local. Prior to WWI there were 2 local Balkan wars .The decline of super powers brings the emergence of vacuums. Both Balkan wars were the direct result of the decline of the regional super power ,the Ottomans. WWI started as the third Balkan War. The balance of power and the system of alliances turned the assassination into a world war. New alliances and the multilateral League of Nations could do nothing to prevent WWII .

Hmmm! Tom, I know you like to live in the past and you yearn for past glories, but the world can do without your brand of intervention. Grand high opera for the masses at home. Can you hear the Mikado playing? What has Iraq brought us? Nothing but years of on going war in a destabilised middle east. What has Afghanistan brought us? Nothing but destabilisation, you can't even win the wars you start effectively and you want us to give you licence for more of the same. I am not interested in some petti-fogging baltic war a hunded years ago and the Turks are playing you for fools right now. What you are saying is we have learned nothing and the reality is you have learned nothing

BBC News - Kurds protest against Turkey as IS advances on Kobane (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29518448)

Turkey has its own problems,

2013–14 protests in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_protests_in_Turkey)

I see nothing that has changed from the lessons of the past . You utopian visions of an international body that mediates world conflicts has twice failed. Dreamers like you more than a century ago would meet near here at Lake Mohonk and plan their vision of the perfect world .
Lake Mohonk Conference on International Arbitration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Mohonk_Conference_on_International_Arbitratio n)

The world will lament the end of Pax Americana. Good luck having China guarantee safe passage of commerce to and from your Island continent .

Tom I don't dream of a world government or a world body that is all things to all people. That is a utopian view and it is what the UN has become. Putting that aside for the moment the UN was established by international treaty on one of the premises was that decisions on international security would be made by a centralised decision making process to avoid the sort of conflagrations they had just experienced, however, despite regional conflicts it could be said to have had some measure of success. You and I know the process is flawed by the veto and therefore I hasn't been allowed to operate fully

Our Unstable World Foretells Of A Large War Looming On Horizon - Investors.com (http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-perspective/120314-728941-changing-world-becoming-more-dangerous-as-power-shifts.htm?p=2)

You must be excited by the prospect of war.

no ,it's what I feared would happen when we elected a pusillanimous POTUS.

Funny there was lots of war during 8 years of republican rule. You were even attacked on your soil.

Karma, Shussss! You don't want to awaken Tom to reality. Appearently he is wishing that the president would have prosecuted their wars with full vigour and restored their place in the world as the superpower of superpowers

Some good news from the war front, apparently foreign militants are dying as quickly as they enter the conflict so their numbers remain the same so we don't need to worry about them coming back and creating a home grown jihad but recent disclosures on US torture have stirred up those who previously suffered at their hands perhaps fuelling a fresh flush of militants

yeah much better to give no quarter and drone them with a hell fire. Then we don't have to worry about their treatment or their housing .

Yes Tom the spirit of Cheney lingers wonder who he will shoot next

it is all a bunch of political nonsense by Dianne FrankenFeinstein. She's having a hissy fit because the CIA tapped into her Intel Committees's computers. So she is playing scorced earth before her term as committee chair is over . Her report would've been just a little more credible if she actually called in some former CIA chiefs in to testify.
We will go back to the days of the Church Committee and the Torricelli Principle where our Intel Agencies hands were so tied that they had absolutely no valuable intel on AQ before the attack .

LOL, if she hadn't raised the issue the repubs would have buried it when they took over the government in January.

aren't you glad you live under the security umbrella that the agency and the military provides ?
"Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf." (George Orwell 'Notes on Nationalism')


The truth is that she and ALL the Democrat leadership were briefed on exactly what was happening at the detention sites ,and they were all on board with it when there was no actionable intel on AQ ....and the smoke from the attacks still hovered over Manhattan ... and there was a lone wolf sniper picking off people in DC ... and there were anthrax attacks on Congressional leaders.;and no one knew if and when the next attack would take place .

So the only thing that makes sense is that they desperately hope to revise the 'blame it on Bush' strategy going into 2016.

No doubt your side will point out that the dems had blame in torturing prisoners too. So what? It's out there so we can holler about it, rather than have it buried.

You like to holler, ME TOO!

No doubt your side will point out that the dems had blame in torturing prisoners tooWell that's a given. Reditions were going on during the Clintoon regime .The difference is that we did not sqawk about it because it was the right thing to do. Your sanctimonious Feinstein doesn't fool me . She turned a blind eye when those reditioned under the Clintoons were turned over to countries where real torture took place.

That does make Americans self righteous hypocrites doesn't it?

war is hell . The only moral way to fight one is the use overwhelming force to crush the enemy as quickly as possible .

So Tom rendition is the right thing to do? Sounds like an end justifies the means argument to me and that is right wing, nazi, objective in what way are you different you would eliminate whole populations with you bomb them and be damned thinking

Proportionality prolongs war and that is what is immoral.

Yes we saw that in 1945 Tom I understand the idea that populations who harbour terrorists are equally guilty just as the Germans and the Japanese www guilty by association however you don't need to remove people unless you are going to do something illegal. Bombing civilian populations however simple a solution doesn't bring victory without annihilation your nation was once fair nation but is becoming that which you hate

During the height of the cold war we were willing to accept the launch of thousands of ICBM and accept casualties in the millions on both sides within hours of a war beginning . We have used drones with targeted missile strikes that cause collateral damage ,and have employed assassination squads . So spare me the outrage over some of the interrogation techniques . What Feinstein did was a cheap sucker punch to our intelligence agencies. My biggest concern is the fallout . She of course will not take any personal responsibility for that .

And neither she should, exposing lies in in government is public service, exposing regime excesses is public service. The end never justifies the means. If you and the soviets had wiped each other out we would have all perished and for what? So you could say you were right? It is a great pity you have never met the people you would bury so easily. I recall a line from a movie that went a little like this when Rome falls there will be shout of freedom and the same applies to the US and for exactly the same reason, your integres and your reckless endangerment of others

Whatever you might think the bomb was a bad thing. Now ISIS is also a bad thing but would you unleash the bomb on Syria to save few Syrian lives? On Irak? On Afghanistan?

When the United States, long a beacon for the oppressed and the marginal and those seeking freedom, takes a page from the Gestapo playbook, I no longer know what country I am living in.

There is a giant tear rolling down the cheek of the Statue of Liberty.

Thank you athos I think we all share that thought, there are some who really do miss the point. I was thinking today about who can we trust in this world and I realised there are very few that you could trust with great power or great advancement, they are just not up to the responsibility

Feinstein's Senate Intelligence Committee(SIC) report suffers the same deficiencies as Rolling Stone's reporter Sabrina Rubin Erdely's conclusions on campus rape at UVA . Neither bothered to talk to the accused. Both came to conclusions before they ever bothered to collect the facts. Then after coming to conclusions they cherry picked facts to support their predetermined conclusion.
In the case of the Intel committee ,they began their investigation presupposing that the CIA ,and the Bush Adm acted illegally . After 5 years and $40 million of taxpayer money spent on their investigation the SCI published their report with only Democrat members signing on to it's conclusions. Most of the work on the 'facts 'was compiled by Dem staffers and not trained investigators .CIA bosses and staffers did not refuse to provide testimony as so many members of the emperor's team have done. Instead ,they were never asked to testify .The most the committee had was CIA produced emails and documents lacking context .
The report also fails badly in that it makes no recommendations for change . No one makes the claim that methods and procedures were perfect . They were hastily formed immediately after the 9-11 attacks , the DC sniper case ,and the Antrax attacks. The immediate concern and message that our leaders heard from the American people was 'keep us safe'. Since there were no further attacks ,and many foiled plots we can make the conclusion that in that regard ;our intel agencies succeeded . So we know right off the bat that the SIC conclusion that the methods were ineffective is false.
What SIC also fails to mention is that not only did the Justice Dept give the approval ,but that ALL senior member of Congress were briefed . None objected .

On the contrary ;here is what Feinstein said in 2002 :
'I have no question in my mind that had it not been for 9/11 -- and I'd do anything if it hadn't happened -- that it would have been business as usual,'' said Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California. ''It took that real attack, I think, to kind of shiver our timbers enough to let us know that the threat is profound, that we have to do some things that historically we have not wanted to do to protect ourselves.''( New York Times, May 26, 2002)


Here is what a group of former CIA chiefs had to say about the report :

"The recently released Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Majority report on the CIA's Rendition, Detention, and Interrogation Program is marred by errors of facts and interpretation and is completely at odds with the reality that the leaders and officers of the Central Intelligence Agency lived through. It represents the single worst example of Congressional oversight in our many years of government service."

Tom you know and so do I that 9/11 was an excuse to strengthen the hand of the security forces. The threat was actually very small a few isolated incidents but in the mind of the public, horrific. The terrorists succeeded, they brought terror to their enemy. Even now the ISIS threat is not large but the ineffectiveness of security forces in various places makes the problem look huge and it will be a excuse for creative intelligence gathering, It is simple; just increase the supply of a few implements and look away and give your government plausiable denyability

Lindt Chocolat Cafe hostage drama in Martin Place, Sydney (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lindt-chocolat-cafe-hostage-drama-in-martin-place-sydney-20141215-1278cx.html)

I cannot imagine the significance of Islamic militants taking over a chocolate shop far from Syria, do they want to establish the Cacao Caliphate? Perhaps the owners are Jewish but even so this can have no effect on anything but the high potential of getting yourself shot. If you wanted to make a public display of the cause, Martin Place, though a significant central city plaza is hardly full of Christmas shoppers, it is the heart of the finance sector and offers the security services plenty of room to deploy and keep the public away. Even the nearby urban transit station offers a train ride to nowhere

The threat was actually very small a few isolated incidents

hindsight is 20-20 .

46920

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6yLQRF-cEU

You lost me there Tom. Yes hindsight is 20-20 and it seems your intelligence services are still not up to speed, this incident this morning is very close to the US embassy, perhaps it's a message, we have your latte' captive

WakeWake up Clete, stop acting like it's about US! Its about you too, and many more besides just you Aussies! Think global, and collaborate intelligence as this is a shared problem. Obviously your intelligence agencies have failed you too!

You should have seen this stunt coming!

Hi Tal we did see it coming and raised the terror alert months ago but this was a lone wolf action, a somewhat deranged individual. The only way we could have prevented this is not to allow political asylum and muslim immigration. You might consider that this happened outside the US embassy and you didn't see it coming

In you country this fellow would have been languishing in prison under your three strikes rule, maybe we should think about locking people up for life too, that might have prevented this

Sydney siege: Man behind Martin Place stand-off was Iranian Man Haron Monis, who had violent criminal history - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-16/iranian-man-haron-monis-named-as-man-behind-sydney-siege/5969246)

Whatever you might think Tal the actions of the US and its allies in the middle east are a trigger for much violence and the rise of organisations like al qaeda and ISIS. It is time you took responsibility. Who knows, maybe the release of the terror report was enough for this person to think he was going to be treated the same way

blame America 1st . Some things never change .

He was raving about america and other things on his blog and Facebook as was his partner who admitted being a terrorist so he blamed america. Once again you want to shoot the messenger rather than accepting the message. While we are talking about america, some american nut case wanted to tell us our tight gun laws caused this rather than recognising that because of them, this nutcase couldn't get hold of an assault weapon and also please contrast the community reaction, no marches protesting the slaying of the perpetrator, no destruction of property and the rule of law pervailed even though a member of a minority was shot by police. What came out of it was solidarity not division, so tell me Tom who's democracy works?

Your democracy works for you, ours works for us, so stop comparing.


also please contrast the community reaction, no marches protesting the slaying of the perpetrator, no destruction of property and the rule of law pervailed even though a member of a minority was shot by police. What came out of it was solidarity not division,

More delusional ranting with the usual scrambling of facts?!

His attack is similar to the 1990 attack in Berkeley, Calif. by Iranian, Mehrdad Dashti. He also had a long record of criminal acts.He took about 16 people hostage declaring himself a "devout" Muslim to justify his acts.
But his past record doesn't mean that he's not part of the ongoing jihadist war on the West. He's the latest manifestation of it's tactics. If his beef was against America than why did he do his attack against citizens of the country that took him in after his bogus claim of asylum ?
You are clearly taking the wrong irrelevent message from the Ferguson and Staten Island incidents . If you are looking for a comparison then a better example would be the Boston Marathon attack. In both case the evidence was available to the law enforcement ,intel and government decision makers that the attackers were radical and could likely attack. They were given the protections enjoyed by citizens and residents of the host country and used that generosity ,like Mordred ,as a weakness of his target. Political correctness no doubt played a big role in both cases. Anything but the truth: that he is an Islamofascist Terrorist.
Your dismissing him as a lone wolf at your peril . Jihadistan has a campaign to radicalize the so called disillusioned . That leads to hatchet attacks in NYC ,stabbings in the Canadian Parliament ,and chocolate cafe attacks in Sydney . But here if the NYC police dept spies on the Mosques they are the bad guys.

He is a lone wolf in that he didn't have others backing him up but there can be no doubt he was a radical who preached a message of hate and attempted to recruit others. There are real questions about why he was at large, serious questions that go to probity in the judicial process, and serious questions regarding intelligence failure. What we have here is a magistrate second quessing the prosecution case in a murder indictment. What is strange is he was an iranian sunni convert. There are american associations with his dead wife's family with threats made so the whole incident is very murky and motivations may or may not have anything to do with jihad and may have a lot to do with being a psycopath

More delusional ranting with the usual scrambling of facts?!

Tal the only thing delusional here is the idea that your hands are clean and we should look somewhereelse

Working hand are never clean, but we are no more responsible for the acts of NUTS, and criminals as you are. To be fair we are all helpless to some extent by their acts.

Horror over deadly Sydney siege turns to anger | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2875643/Australian-leader-lays-flowers-memorial.html)

where did he get bail money to cover 40 -50 sexual assault charges ? and using the mail for criminal activity ,and accessory to murder charges ? or did he even have to make bail ?

Yes Tom as I said serious issues but bail wasn't set at an extortinate amount as it might be elsewhere, the surity was $1,000 cash, what is even more astonishing is that his partner was released on $100,000 bail on a murder charge where horrendous acts had been committed. I understand the bail application, it can take a long time for the hearing to proceed in a capital case, longer even than the sentence in some cases, but like yourself, I don't understand how it might be successful. I don't understand how a low court magistrate could be hearing a bail application in cases such as these. Even this fellows lawyers abandoned him because of the ideas he spouted and fellow prisoners are said to have defiled him while he was held in custody so he was seriously weird.

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/man-haron-monis-legal-history/story-e6frfku9-1227158650122

As to the sexual assault cases, they are not the most serious charges against him. It is as if he was able to gain the confidence of and power over women and misuse the position. The details of the murder charge don't indicate a crime of passion

http://www.smh.com.au/national/martin-place-killer-monis-allegedly-incited-partner-droudis-to-murder-exwife-noleen-hayson-pal-20141216-128izi.html

these Islamists are perverts on top of all their other depravities.
Islamic State (ISIS) Releases Pamphlet On Female Slaves (http://www.memrijttm.org/islamic-state-isis-releases-pamphlet-on-female-slaves.html)

Interesting side issue, Iran apparently sought his extradition for violence and fraud but it didn't happen due to refugee status, etc. We certainly get the dregs and it begs the question; how many more criminals are protected by refugee status? ISIS are certainly depraved but what can you expect from a death cult, they have no respect for anyone and I have heard even their recruits are subjected to appalling conditions and degradation. Maybe we need to look beyond the alleged persecution when assessing refugees. I firmly believe any refugee who commits a criminal act should be sent back irrespective of other considerations including citizenship.

ISIS are certainly depraved but what can you expect from a death cult,

Terrorism needs stronger and stronger stimuli to achieve the same result. Islamic State beheadings aren't shocking anymore . Not when the Taliban beheads mutilates and shoots over 130 school children ,and burns their teacher to death for good measure. That's the Taliban's revenge for Malala Yousafzai's Nobel Peace Prize.

This attack came one day after the emperor went to McGuire Air base in New Jersey to announce to the troops the US surrender in Afghanistan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4M4aXI9Ryo

I don't think the act in Pakistan has much to do with Obama's movements or Malala, it is revenge for the Pakistani military campaign in Waziristan. They are seeking to get another peace treaty they can ignore. American troops in Afghanistan just represent a convenient target so they can get a little publicity. Pakistan sowed the wind and reaped a whirlwind.

What is happening here is a few rag tag militants are defying a large military force in a long honoured tradition, there is a taint of religion about it

I don't think the act in Pakistan has much to do with Obama's movements or Malala

sure it does. I suppose you think that there is a big difference between the Afghanistan Taliban and the Paki Taliban like our leader tried to peddle.

Sometimes I think you have difficulty with comprehension, where did I say that?

Tom, in that part of the world its all family and the border is artificial. The tribal areas in Pakistan don't want to be ruled by Islamabad or anyoneelse and Afghanistan is part of their lands. The Taliban is a construct of Pakistan and it is now biting them on the backside bigtime. What Obama says or does is incidential to the ongoing fight. He could take a leaf out of your playbook and bomb them but that won't happen without Paki say so, so you keep funding this proxy war and move on, but don't let your troops get trapped in Kabul like the British did, because there is no border to retreat to and the Paki's won't rescue you as they did in Mogadishu. Remarkably similar circumstances developing, so learn the lessons of history

I'm sort of wondering; is ISIS a one hit wonder? We don't seem to hear much about them these days. Some sources say they have 200,000 fighters, those numbers sure escalated, propaganda there somewhere, but for 200,000 there must be a lot of sitting around and contemplating which Koranic scripture you will misintrepret next. Just maybe you need a lot of people to keep the slaves in check. ISIS gets press everywhere but where the fighting is supposed to be, a failure and they fizzle. Propaganda doesn't win battles, islamic rhetoric doesn't win battles and if you sit around someone is likely to bomb your leaders. I think the sheep must be very mistreated in Iraq and Syria

You ar just not following the news anymore.. They still assault Kobani ;but their assaut has stalled with the combined allied air power and Iraqi Kurd support . Yesterday peshmerga fighters fought their way to Sinjar mountain and freed hundreds of Yadisis trapped there . The Kurds have retaken much of the territory they lost. The Iraqi Army has rallied after it's initial failures .They are on a counter-offensive against the Islamic State .
But these items are boring to the lame main stream media. They'd rather talk about US waterboarding prisoners a decade ago ..

Naw Tom, this week is about Cuba, and North Korea hacking Sony.

yeah nice of the emperor to announce a policy that has been in effect since 2000 as if it is some new policy .
Trade Sanction Reform and Export Enhancement Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Sanction_Reform_and_Export_Enhancement_Act)

The one thing I'll say about it is that it makes more sense to ease sanctions on Cuba than it does Iran or the NORKS (2 of the original Axis of Evil ..... was Bush wrong about that too ? )

FBI statement today :


"Today, the FBI would like to provide an update on the status of our investigation into the cyber attack targeting Sony Pictures Entertainment (SPE). In late November, SPE confirmed that it was the victim of a cyber attack that destroyed systems and stole large quantities of personal and commercial data. A group calling itself the “Guardians of Peace” claimed responsibility for the attack and subsequently issued threats against SPE, its employees, and theaters that distribute its movies.
The FBI has determined that the intrusion into SPE’s network consisted of the deployment of destructive malware and the theft of proprietary information as well as employees’ personally identifiable information and confidential communications. The attacks also rendered thousands of SPE’s computers inoperable, forced SPE to take its entire computer network offline, and significantly disrupted the company’s business operations.
After discovering the intrusion into its network, SPE requested the FBI’s assistance. Since then, the FBI has been working closely with the company throughout the investigation. Sony has been a great partner in the investigation, and continues to work closely with the FBI. Sony reported this incident within hours, which is what the FBI hopes all companies will do when facing a cyber attack. Sony’s quick reporting facilitated the investigators’ ability to do their jobs, and ultimately to identify the source of these attacks.
As a result of our investigation, and in close collaboration with other U.S. Government departments and agencies, the FBI now has enough information to conclude that the North Korean government is responsible for these actions. While the need to protect sensitive sources and methods precludes us from sharing all of this information, our conclusion is based, in part, on the following:
We are deeply concerned about the destructive nature of this attack on a private sector entity and the ordinary citizens who worked there. Further, North Korea’s attack on SPE reaffirms that cyber threats pose one of the gravest national security dangers to the United States. Though the FBI has seen a wide variety and increasing number of cyber intrusions, the destructive nature of this attack, coupled with its coercive nature, sets it apart. North Korea’s actions were intended to inflict significant harm on a U.S. business and suppress the right of American citizens to express themselves. Such acts of intimidation fall outside the bounds of acceptable state behavior. The FBI takes seriously any attempt – whether through cyber-enabled means, threats of violence, or otherwise – to undermine the economic and social prosperity of our citizens.
The FBI stands ready to assist any U.S. company that is the victim of a destructive cyber attack or breach of confidential business information. Further, the FBI will continue to work closely with multiple departments and agencies as well as with domestic, foreign, and private sector partners who have played a critical role in our ability to trace this and other cyber threats to their source. Working together, the FBI will identify, pursue, and impose costs and consequences on individuals, groups, or nation states who use cyber means to threaten the United States or U.S. interests."

An act of war ......no ? Typically the US response to an act of war that was caused in retaliation to an offensive video would be to arrest the people /person who made the film/video . Sony execs should be quaking in their boots over the prospect .
With friends like the sdministration and Al Sharpton on their side ,what does Sony have to lose ?
Sharpton to have say over how Sony makes movies | New York Post (http://nypost.com/2014/12/18/sharpton-to-have-say-over-how-sony-makes-movies/)

Who cares what Sharpton has to say? Why are you reading the NY Post for news?

does it matter which source ? The same info is in the NY Slimes too. Sharpton is doing a shakedown of Sony over some of the leaked emails.

Really? What do the Kardashians say??

got me .You may think that Sharpton is only a celeb. But he has been prominent in American news for years now be it instigating riots ,or playing the shake down game . Recently he was at the table with the emperor ,as a key advisor on racial issues ,discussing the riots in Ferguson Mo. ;and he has a number of times been on the podium with the mayor of NYC Sandanista Bill regarding city policing policy . He is the defacto deputy mayor .

Shifting an international theme back to local issues again Tom? Who cares what Sharpton thinks or does, only a minority. It is immaterial to the outcome in Iraq or Syria

not me . just responding to 1st Tal observation ,and then NK's snipes.

Human rights is an international theme Clete, as are cyber attacks.

I'm a sniper.

Hi tal it might be until you introduce a local issue, I could speak about many local human rights issues, like what caused that case in Cairns but it has nothing to do with ISIS and the crisis in the ME. You want to talk human rights abuses in the USA and elsewhere start a new thread or use the thread that is already there

Isis is local, Iraq is local, and you are NOT in the middle east.

ISIS is an international threat they are not confined to Iraq or Syria, They represent a threat even as far from the middle east as I live, their ideas find resonance in the muslim community everywhere. We will see how much you howl when they manifest themselves among you. We had that incident last week and a terrorists on trial for planning ISIS promoted public beheadings. How less local can you get.

It seems to be you can't divorce the limited local issues you have, from a broader debate. Stop shooting yourselves in the foot and you may be able to have a broader perspective

Your latest incident didn't deal with ISIS. But your own local nut. You are the one attaching international flavor to your anti muslim blatherings because the fool was making himself seem attached to a cause rather than his own deluded lunacy.

You could blow ISIS away right now and still have to deal with local fools. They were all over the place before ISIS, they will be all over the place after ISIS. Hell bet you have a motorcycle gang that gives YOU guys more trouble than ISIS does.

Hi Tal yes we have motor cycle gangs, offshoots of the nonsense in the US, they have their heads down at the moment, in some places they have been declared illegal organisations, and incidentally they have become a haven for local muslim criminals and so are a breeding ground for people like ISIS. What you may have missed is you let an Australian Muslim go from Gitmo who has gone on to become the head of ISIS, so the possibility that ISIS has reach here and is trouble for us is real and already manifest, on a population basis we have contributed more fighters to ISIS than the US has, our security forces are continually shutting down ISIS sympathisers

The Pentagon has a new name for ISIS - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/18/politics/pentagon-now-calls-isis-daesh/index.html?iref=obnetwork)

ISIS (ISIL) has a new name; daesh, which happens to mean exactly the same thing if you are an arab, it started as al qaeda in Iraq so why have we stopped calling them al qaeda anyway? Could it be that the US wants us to think they have beaten al qaeda?

Share some of that Aussie eggnog why don't you?

Don't have eggnog here, Tal, but I have been known to enjoy a scotch from time to time, try a Grant's cask edition. However today the sun isn't over the yardarm yet. You know Tal we have a different way of looking at things here, we are very skeptical of authority and the higher the authority the more skeptical we become so that those who operate at rariefied hights have no crediability at all. Now that piece I just posted illustrates the point, why confuse the issue by changing the name? Is this some sort of exercise in PC? or oneupmanship? or is it just B/S baffles brains?

In the interests of holiday humour and international understanding here's a quick lesson in Aussie for the northernly challenged

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/aussie-stereotypes-were-all-sick-of/story-fnet085v-1227144136914?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=lifestyle

Be so simple if their was one language, one culture for the whole world.

Nah Tal God didn't think that was a good idea and nor do I. Something's just don't translate, but we like the KISS principle which we think might have been forgotten in some circles or is it that some people just go in circles?

Can't imagine not using the Queen's english and how would you translate drongo? That's a bird by the way, or Yahoo? Which is a legendary beast and just think about the word Nullarbour and yet each of these words could be applied in their alternative meaning because we speak in a way where words have meaning that can change

Your lack of understanding doesn't stop you from drawing your own conclusions I see.

Understanding is in the eye of the beholder Tal, you don't get my sardonic sense of humour, and as to conclusions, we are each entitled to draw our own from the assembled facts and reading between the lines is permitted. Now you remember to drain the swamp over there

The French started using Daesh 1st .So of course Sec State Jean Francois Kerry adopted it . Besides ,the jihadists don't like the name so it is a poke in the eye in lieu of taking any real action against them .

Sticks and stones eh

Every little jihadist thinks that it is popular to have an ISIS connection here is the latest

Paris supermarket siege: Gunman Amedu Coulibaly appears in posthumous video declaring allegiance to Islamic State (http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/paris-supermarket-siege-gunman-amedy-coulibaly-appears-in-posthumous-video-declaring-allegiance-to-islamic-state/story-fnh81p7g-1227181550253)


They are among us

http://www.smh.com.au/national/sydney-siege-aftermath-muslims-feel-set-up-over-islamic-state-flag-request-20150111-12lyte.html

And by the way Boko Haram now fly the ISIS flag

Boko Horan also is responsible for the deaths of possibly 2000 this week .They cut a swath burning villages and massacring the inhabitants . That didn't make the major news .
Boko Haram burns 16 villages, leaving 2,000 feared dead | The Rundown | PBS NewsHour (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/boko-haram-burns-16-villages-according-nigerian-officials/)

It made our major news in Canada. Why not yours ?

Paris was more compelling ; some of the news outlets were covering the Air Asia crash almost non-stop .... the lame stream is all atwitter over the possibility of Jeb Bush running in the GOP race for President ; and the emperor went on a campaign tour touting his plan for 'free' Junior college . Today the NY Slimes leads with a report that using a tanning machine is dangerous. Then there was Prince Andrew hanging out with a pedophile (with only a brief note that Bubba Clinton also took many trips down to the sex slave island with Jeffrey Epstein .Evita is livid because it hurts her chances in 2016. )

Karma you know there is no major news in the US unless it involves someone in the US, they were only interested in Ebola because a citizen cought it and brought it home. The whole world is up in solidarity against terrorism and the US just isn't interested but they will expect us to sympathise when it happens to them. If they could get their heads out of their constant electoral cycle they might discover democracy

so you agree with me that the US media is lame. I will note that no one else brought up the massacre . You Clete appeared to be more concerned about the color of the flag they fly .

I posted a piece on the massacre, Tom, in a separate thread but since it wasn't US news it was ignored, but it doesn't matter since I notice we weren't interested in Syria either until ISIS invaded Iraq and then we were only concerened about what name we called them by. I hate hyprocracy, Tom, and I observe that life has different values according to how far away people are dying and who they are. Kill a black in america and it is a national disgrace, kill a black in africa and who cares

The Kurds have made progress in Korbane, this is surely cause for a small celebration

yes a very small one until we think of the task still at hand

ISIS execute 13 football fans for watching Iraq play Jordan on TV | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2917071/ISIS-execute-13-football-fans-firing-squad-watching-Iraq-play-Jordan-TV-Islamist-controlled-Mosul.html)

until the free world understands that we need a WWII type effort against these scum then our celebrations will be very small .

Really Tom a WWII effort against a few thousand militants scattered over Syria and Iraq. I do agree it needs a boots on the ground coordinated action using experienced troops and a take no prisoners attitude but we don't want to get back into the sort of thing that Iraq was. ISIS must have supply lines, we need to ensure they cannot be used. Perhaps we should concentrate on a major victory to demoralise them such as retaking Mosul.

where do you think their supply lines flow from. President Bush was right that there are state enablers . (hint : it leads from NATO territory )

Well Tom I have little doubt they flow through Turkey and Lebanon and I wouldn't have doubted they flowed through Iraq until recently, fact is I wouldn't be surprised if many NATO members enabled them in the past as part of their proxy war and certainly Saudi and the Gulf would have. I expect those old desert caravan routes got a work out as well as more sophisticated methods. Surely if every nation stopped supplying ammunition into Syria the war would grind to a hault.

thus a WWII type effort . for the Islamic State or against it .

President Bush was rightThe one that allowed over 3,000 of your fellow americans to be killed on your soil from the terrorists in your largest city and your capital? Sorry if I don't follow your blind devotion to him. Best to stick with the decisions from President Obama who has protected you from this for the past 7 years.

I'm not sure what you think Bush was right about, he was certainly right that AQ was a threat that needed to be neutralised, but his methods meant he succeeded to lessen one threat and gain more enemies. AQ and islamic militants are like the mythical hydra, cut off one head and two more grow. He cut off a head in Afghanistan and got others in Iraq, Syria and Yemen, with affiliates in Somalia and the Megreb, and he never successfully dealt with the Taliban. On balance I would say he was right about it being a long war.

Its like multiple fires with one fire engine. Now Bonehead and Neti want to start another fire with Iran so Neti can be re elected in Israel. Of course Neti want no kind of deal with the US and Iran, he wants the US to nuke the Iranians, and Bonehead just wants to poke Obama in the eye.

read it slowly : " President Bush was right that there are state enablers "

It no secret that the sheiks (or PM's, or whatever state leaders call themselves) have their own agendas, and profit by funding their own mercenaries to keep things in chaos.

Well it seems we are all agreed that this is a proxy war like so many before it and maybe with a reverse twist of Israel trying to get the US to fight its war for them.

According to John Kerry the Coalition has killed thousands of ISIS fighters. Whilst such a statistic is cause for celebration, any gains against ISIS have been hard won and the question is, is this fact? Has ISIS capability been significantly degraded? If so the coalition should move swiftly to destroy them

Who really knows what is and what isnt.

Generals conclude Obama backed al-Qaida

Generals conclude Obama backed al-Qaida (http://www.wnd.com/2015/01/generals-conclude-obama-backed-al-qaida/)

Yes a damning indictment of US double play in the world of the war on terror, which state is sponsoring terrorism now? The enemy of my enemy is my friend can sometimes backfire. I'm not surprised Hilary resigned

US officials thank Australia for helping kill 6000 Islamic State fighters including half its commanders (http://www.news.com.au/world/us-officials-thank-australia-for-helping-kill-6000-islamic-state-fighters-including-half-its-commanders/story-fndir2ev-1227194558168)

Another report of thousands of ISIS fighters killed, this should be catastrophic for an organisation which was thought to have maybe 10,000 fighters but we don't hear much about them retreating and the area of territory retaken is relatively small. This should be embolding the coalition to put boots on the ground and end this

Oh fear cdad reads wnd and believes it... and he's the Internet Research Expert. That sad.

It's sad you don't take something positive from that article karma, you always want to shoot the messenger, on another tack I see that the US has started to refer to ISIS as Daesh, which should make the militants really mad, if you could be madder than they already are

you always want to shoot the messengerNot really but in this case it's justified. It's a website full of hate and misinformation.

forgetting which publication is being quoted ;the truth is that the Citizens Commission on Benghazi has on it's member list ; USAF Brig General Charles Jones retired ; Admiral James Lyons retired ,who served as CIC of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, retired General Thomas McInerney ,who once served for VP Al Goracle .and Retired General Paul Vallely . There are other former high ranking officers in the committee also . They are the ones being quoted by the author . There is no doubt that Ambassador Stevens was involved in weapon transfers from the jihadists who ousted Q Daffy ,to Syrian rebels .


I see that the US has started to refer to ISIS as Daesh, which should make the militants really mad, if you could be madder than they already are
Why should they get mad ? That's what they call themselves .

Apparently Tom it denies their Caliphate and they don't like abbrebriations, you know what these religious types are like, it's the full title or nothing. But back to Stephens, if you involve yourself in gun running you are liable to get caught in the middle. These operations supporting rebel goups always end badly, I don't understand why the US doesn't operate on a higher level but then they don't assassinate national leaders, do they? This ISIS, sorry Daesh, thing could be ended with a couple of battalions of special forces given their head and allowed to operate freely in a clandestine manner. Those ineffective Iraqis could then do the mopping up and occupation, they don't need years of training for that.

But no, we have to be sensitive to the ego's of the Iraqi and sit on the fence

Korbani has fallen, this has got to be a positive and we can expect Mosul to be the next city to be liberated by the Kurds who possess the will so lacking in the Iraqi arabs

Inside Mosul there is a determined resistance to the Islamic State capture of the city . They call themselves the "Mosul Liberation Battalions" ,and are responsible for a large number of Jihadists deaths . They could desperately use resupply to continue their resistance. These fighters will be assisted soon by Iraqi regulars and the Peshmerga to retake the city .

This is good news, these terrorists need to be eliminated and the Kurds supported despite what Iraq and turkey think. The US should strongly support the Kurds and give the Shiite regime a big miss

1200 ISIS militants are said to have died in Korbani a victory that they not be able to recover from, they are now entrenching in Mosul

ISIS video shows Jordanian pilot Muath al-Kaseasbeh engulfed in flames inside a metal cage (http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/islamic-state-video-shows-jordanian-pilot-burnt-alive/story-fnh81ifq-1227207158230)

ISIS or Daesh, the new popular name, for the nightmare that is playing out in Syria and Iraq has taken another step to ensure that the world will not rest until it is wiped out. By killing a Jordanian in this manner they will insense the Arab world. Their atrocities were previously committed against western journalists and aid workers but this sends a clear message to the muslim world

I wrote this on the other op . Worth repeating ....

the West was getting bored with beheading videos so they adopted and did an immolation murder and tossed a homosexual 7 stories off a building . When he didn't die immediately ,the crowd finished him off with your boiler plate stoning . We love a good Grand Guignol.

Too ghoulish for me Tom

Get an arab enraged?
Jordan launches airstrikes against ISIS (http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/jordan-continues-their-revenge-on-isis-carrying-out-airstrikes-against-the-terror-group/story-fnh81ifq-1227209129504)

the King of Jordan is certainly taking it to the Islamic State . But when he asked for US drone support he was turned down by the emperor who's National Security Advisor doesn't think that jihadistan poses an existential threat .

This of course fits in well with his inactive foreign policy that is now being designated as “strategic patience.”
White House Unveils Call for ‘Strategic Patience’ | Foreign Policy (http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/05/white-house-to-unveil-call-for-strategic-patience-russia-ukraine-syria-iraq-china-asia/)

Basically ,strategic patience is drawing a red line ;and when it gets crossed ,draw another one. Another name for it would be 'dithering obfuscation' . You see ,losing Egypt ,Libya, Syria ,northern Iraq ,Yemen was all part of the plan.

Strategic patience is that your way of saying isolationist, you always use two words where one will suffice

in this case ,it's just another manifestation of 'Lead from Behind' (LFB). It went from LFB to 'don't do stupid sh~t' and now to 'don't do anything' . The next phase ,already underway is “conscious uncoupling”.. or in your words ,isolationist . As Evita says,"What difference does it make?"

The emperor clearly is thinking of the threats of the 1st millennium .But he should realize that the threat posed by the Medieval Christian world is contained . Time to move on to the existential threat posed by jihadistan .

Jordan is all fired up and ready to go, but lets see how long it lasts before we send in anything they holler for. If anyone should get what they want, it's the Kurds!

Frankly Tom I see no reason we cannot give the locals a chance to fight for their own rights, instead of us rescuing them.

Frankly Tom I see no reason we cannot give the locals a chance to fight for their own rights, instead of us rescuing them.

I imagine what this country would look like if the French said that about our revolution."it's not our business. go fight for your own rights " .

Imagine where ISIS would be without our support now.

Don't go there Tal

Imagine where ISIS would be without our support now.

Imagine where they'd be if we didn't bug out of Iraq before it was wise to do so .

Leaving Iraq is only one factor, you could have fought an AQ insurgency there forever, it continued after you were gone and the idiocy of the Iraqi leaders made a bad situation worse, however Syria and the rise of daesh is something else. I understand the disengagement in Iraq just as I understand it in Afghanistan but your unwillingness to deal with daesh effectively I don't understand

it continued after you were gone

wrong , the insurgency was unambiguously defeated by the combination of the Sunni Awakening ,with coalition support . What happened is that when the US announced our bug out ,then the Maliki gvt turned to the only patron in the region they could depend on ;the Iranians. The quid pro quo for that support was to reverse all the power sharing guarantees that the Sunnis had in the unity government . That decision is what bred the Islamic State in Iraq .

So we should have stayed in Iraq as an occupying force, after we overthrew Saddam, who kicked Iran in the arse, and run their government?

Where have you been Tom? When did the bombing stop in Iraq? The insurgency didn't stop. You are like Bush and his Stupid mission accomplished

The emperor will present before Congress a request for an AUMF for our efforts against the Islamic State that will not lead their defeat . It is my understanding that it will be so restrictive in scope that it will, if passed ,seriously limit the ability of the future POTUS to prosecute the "Long War" . It will sunset and restrict the next CIC from extending it until a renewal request in 2018. That means the next POTUS will be bound by it's terms for 2 years .
It is another one of his idiotic plans where we broadcasts to the enemy what military options we will not take and how long we will stay . If I follow the guidelines fron the National Security Assessment,the emperor will act "decisively " ....BUT only 'legally' ,'discriminately' , 'proportionally ',and 'bound by strict accountabilty ' . Now I'm not a weapons expert . So are any of our weapons calibrated to proportionally respond ?

Now I'm not a weapons expert . So are any of our weapons calibrated to proportionally respond ?You honestly don't know what that means?

Its to keep the next POTUS from spending trillions of bucks, and sending hundreds of thousands of volunteer kids in Iraq for 10 years, while making contractors rich and fat.

You know like the last Bush Iraq Adventure.

You honestly don't know what that means?

sure I do . It means 'how to lose a war' . By definition it means we should not be using air power because our enemies don't have air power .


Its to keep the next POTUS from spending trillions of bucks, and sending hundreds of thousands of volunteer kids in Iraq for 10 years, while making contractors rich and fat.

You know like the last Bush Iraq Adventure.

nah ;it's the emperor doing the same mistakes he made in Iraq and Afghanistan....announcing a date for withdrawal before the war is won.

The "DUD" is already telegraphing. He knows nothing. He will screw this one up, like everything he has touched so far.

How is this Obama's fault again? LOL at the righties.

The emperor did not mind executing the war under the terms of the AUMF of 2003 . What he wants to do is handcuff the next POTUS . What he should've done is ask for the authority when he started the bombing campaign. Back then he determined that he doesn't need it because the AUMF from 2003 and 2001 was still in effect. He was right then . Why do you think he has determined he suddenly needs a new one now ?

Now can you imagine FDR asking Congress for a declaration of war and telling them. 'I want authorization to wage war against Japan and Germany for a set specified time period. After that time we are going to punch the time clock and go home.' Imagine instead of saying we will do what is necessary to defeat them ,he said his declaration bans “enduring offensive combat operations”.


Of course it would be easy to prosecute the war in the emperor's time frame if he actually fought to win it . But as I already pointed out . He's planning on handcuffing his commanders .

The congress can give the next POTUS whatever he/she ask for, whenever he/she asks for it, if they want to.

right .the point is that this may be the first war declaration in our history that has an expiration date . Like Edward Klein wrote .. the emperor is an Amatuer . 6 years later .

What's he going to call it ;'Operation Kick the can down the Road '?

The really comical thing is that the emperor's war against ISIS,ISIL ,Daesh,the Khorasan group , those vicious extremists who behead and randomly shoot 'folks' in a deli in France..... whatever ,for over a half year now.

It's not like he thinks he needs Congressional authorization. It's not like he would actually restrict how he executes the war if he chose to ignore the provisions of the AUMF .
No ,all he's really trying to do is handcuff the next POTUS.

"How is this Obama's fault again? LOL at the righties"

Well, we have only lost 2 Embassies thanks to "DUD". Way to go "LEFTY". Disarmed the Marines and taken the vehicles etc. Wonder if he will take it back? Just read that they closed the embassy and that it was not taken over. Earlier report I read said different.

And how many were killed in 9/11 and in Iraq?

So now you are going to have the three year war, I suspect what he is really doing is getting approval for his term, leaving some time for the next CIC to get approval for continuence. I don't get this, the war in Syria has raged for three years and like many of these things may become generational, how does he think a limited engagement can finish it in three years

He doesn't Clete, the next CIC can ask for his own strategy, or whatever. The congress can say yah, or nay, or whatever.

It's really simple, there is no real strategy until the congress and CIC can find one. Until then we stay home except for planes, bombs, and a few special ops forces.

Feel free to send your own army if you have one.

Ah Yes Tal but a fickle electorate changes the composition of Congress every two years and so there must be time for debate particularly if there is an unpopular CIC, it does happen and history might repeat itself

Not as many as we will lose if "DUD" keeps playing with ISSL.

So let them debate, they have two years.

it is bizarro world . You know what this is all about don't you ? Just this week he was dismissing the threat...... you know ;random "zealots " beheading and shooting "folks " .

But then yesterday it was confirmed that Kayla Mueller was killed while being held captive by the Islamic State .(and I don't believe for one second that she was killed by a Jordanian bomb.) I think the pressure on him to get the AUMF done hit the boiling point.

Yes it always makes a difference if one of your nationals is killed, the level of attention changes instantly, what was tolerable before becomes intolerable, etc. This is about political expedience and not having a situation where criticism is carried over. It's about ownership, getting Congress to own it. So for Obama boots on the ground means special forces with the grunt work being done by others, I wonder if he has read from the Johnson manual; let's see first you have advisors, then you have more advisors, and then you have an incident, and then you have mobile capabilities, and then.. well you remember, need I say more? An "apocolypse now" scenario, operations against a hostile population and assassination of rogue force leaders

The US surrenders in Yemen . No other way to read this news .
Marines Surrender Weapons Before Yemen Evacuation | Military.com (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/02/11/marines-surrender-weapons-before-yemen-evacuation.html)

Is the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning? Let the arabs fight their own wars, SA can now fight Yemen another proxy war let's see how well they do when the US isn't fighting their wars. You fought for them in Iraq, you have had the good sense not to fight Iran and now you are committing to fight against those they have been funding in Syria

Read it again as the other countries who had embassies left too, so what's your point? A read it as a strategic retreat. Since it was calm and orderly and without ay conflict, surrender isn't an accurate term.


Warren said the Marines destroyed their machine guns and other crew-served weapons before leaving the Embassy for the airport. He also said that it was unclear who now had custody of the weapons (http://www.military.com/equipment/weapons) and vehicles (http://www.military.com/equipment/military-vehicles) that were surrendered.


Warren also could not say why a civilian charter flight was used rather than military aircraft for the evacuation. He suggested that the handover of weapons may have resulted from international rules barring weapons on a civilian flight.

What would you expect after a coup? Wait to see what happens next? Defending the embassy to the last man? An emergency under fire evacuation?