Better than hopping helicopters on the embassy roof. A orderly evacuation and a few personal weapons surrendered, Tom makes it look like a crisis rather than what it is a strategic withdrawl of embassy staff, but then no american likes to give up his sacred gun

tal ,the truth is that the USS Iwo Jima task force is off the coast of Yemen with at least 2 Marine Transport craft . Why DOS had the Marines board a civilian flight is a mystery all to itself . There may have been protocol involved in the destruction of the Marine supplied weapons . But they also made them destroy their personal weapons before boarding the plane . I think they should've made a convoy to the beach and let the task force pick them up.
They did their job and got the Embassy staff out . They should not have been forced to surrender or destroy their weapons.


Better than hopping helicopters on the embassy roof. A orderly evacuation and a few personal weapons surrendered, Tom makes it look like a crisis rather than what it is a strategic withdrawl of embassy staff, but then no american likes to give up his sacred gun

Yes it is a matter of honor .

That's not what the article you linked said. I understand your need for the feel good pomp and ceremony, and prying a weapon out my dead cold hands philosophy. But quiet retreat to a safer position, a cocktail and a movie was much just as good and effective.

I will will provide a new link since the site updated their report . The good news is that the Houthi rebels did not get their guns. However ,they were forced to disable them before boarding the plane.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/02/12/marines-destroyed-all-weapons-in-yemen-evacuation.html


I don't care what you say . I'm sure there was equipment and classified information carried out that was not subject to inspection. The personal weapons could've and should've been secured in the same way for transport . If you ask any one of those Marines they will tell you that giving up their weapon sure feels like surrender . I'm sure they would tell you it's a matter of honor.

Let's not get carried away on honour Tom, what is important is they evacuated the people they were protecting so no Benghazi in Saana, someone has learned something

Let's not get carried away on honour
Tell that to the Marines.

Cliché

I am sure the sensitive stuff was taken, but even your latest article points to the orderly planned in advance leaving of embassy personnel.


"Upon arrival at the airfield, all personal weapons were rendered inoperable in accordance with advance planning," the statement said. "Specifically, each bolt was removed from its weapons body and rendered inoperable by smashing with sledgehammers. The weapons' bodies, minus the bolts, were then separately smashed with sledgehammers."

Well of course it would be well planned the military were involved. A orderly evacuation upon a change of government. The rest is just someone getting their knickers in a knot. Hard luck you no longer rule Yemen

For now the drones aren't supposed to stop in Yemen anytime soon. The rebels hate AQ, but they don't like us either so who knows.

I am sure the sensitive stuff was taken, but even your latest article points to the orderly planned in advance leaving of embassy personnel.

of course it was 'planned ' .I'm, just saying it was the wrong call.


Well of course it would be well planned the military were involved. A orderly evacuation upon a change of government. The rest is just someone getting their knickers in a knot. Hard luck you no longer rule Yemen

the rest of the world will regret it soon enough. The Iranians now control choke points out of the Arabian Gulf and into the Red Sea. They also influence the government in Sudan . So they now cover the whole length of the Red Sea to the Suez Canal.

How many dollars do you want invested in stopping THEIR influence, or troops, NUKES? Be specific King Tom.

The ironic thing is that they were ripe for toppling in 2009 -10 . All it would've taken was support for the Green Revolution. Yet even though the emperor went out of his way supporting every other revolutionary effort against Sunni nations ,he did NOTHING to help the revolution that would've had the biggest positive impact on the region.

Now because he did not support them ,and has done little positive to stop the advance of the Iranian nuke ,it might very well take nukes to stop them . Our ineffective and tepid efforts to stop them will lead to a proliferation ....and that will indeed probably lead to their use.

You have become nervious nellies Tom, given the time that has passed if the Iranians wanted a nuke they would have had one by now, even a backwards nation like NK has a nuke.

it is not easy to get nukes They needed help . The NORKS didn't get them on their own. They needed the help of the A Q Khan network . Not surprising; the gas centrifuges that the Iranians first used are the Pak-1s ....the ones invented by AQ Khan. .

A.Q. Khan boasts of helping Iran's nuclear programme - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/6170145/A.Q.-Khan-boasts-of-helping-Irans-nuclear-programme.html)

Help but you get the help you ask for. I really wonder whether the Paki's want an nuclear armed Iran on it's left flank, with India on the right it puts it squarely in the middle and Pakistan is a sunni nation and there is much persecution of shiites in Pakistan

AQ Khan was not an agent of the government . His goal in providing nukes to Iran was to neutralize Israel.......well that and $$$$ .The Iranians had plenty of petro-rial to spend . The Iranians also have purchased nuke and rocket technology from the NORKS .

I cannot imaging what you think a PF power like Iran can do, the boil has gone out of the Israel thing, the Eqyptians have cut off supply to the Palestinians and Iran finds Syria a more interesting playground to taunt the west with. They know you are not going to bomb them unless there is overt aggression so they play at proxy war just as you do, but you are fighting for the shiite cause now and backed off after a shiite victory in Yemen. Perhaps you want them to balance out the Saudi and keep the oil flowing to bankrupt Russia, Iran and Saudi in one stroke'.I would not be surprised if you have met yourself coming back in foreign policy. Evita certainly knew when to get out

Is Obama going to put boots on the ground in Libya too?

Islamic State: Video purports to show 21 Egyptians beheaded in Libya; Coptic Church confirms deaths - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-16/islamic-state-releases-video-purporting-to-show-beheading-of-21/6114642)

The world has to take this ISIS thing much more seriously. For too long we have looked over the border and said not our problem. My government has begun to stiffen entry requirements and laws associated with security issues. We may even be reaching a time when the presumption of innocence may be questioned, to a time when guilt by association is the norm. It is already working in travel arrangements, go to the wrong place and have your passport cancelled.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31483631

Egypt will react as Jordan reacted so let's see some help from elsewhere to change the situation in Libya, another failed state that "benefited" from US interventionist foriegn policy. The count of failed arab states is now five. Syria, Libya, Iraq, Somalia and Yemen with Egypt having dodged the bullet

Sykes-Picot undone. One could say it was inevidible . Egypt was/is the only legitimate nation there anyway . The rest are tribes . The question really is ;so do we help forge a future Levant or do we sit on the sidelines and accept what emerges ? Yes there are prices to pay for involvement . There are equally prices to pay ,possibly more dire ,if we are aloof and uninvolved .

If all the other nations signed up to kick ISIS in the arse where they are, we wouldn't have this problem, but we would have a WAR until the job is done.

Tal there are thirty nations signed up already how many do you want? These nations have been bombing ISIS for months, I would say we have got a WAR, what we need is more than tokenism, particularly from Iraq who have lost territory to them. It is a disgrace that a few thousand terrorists should control a major city like Mosul and all that opposes them are Pesmerga militia. Who trained those troops who threw away their arms? These are not people who can be defeated in an war of degradation of economic assets. Meanwhile the threat grows as other terrorists join ISIS and fight in places like North Africa and the terrorists succeed in a reign of terror

30 nations and no boots. Just planes.

shows what happens when the US leads from behind.

Do you call this leadership? I call it tokenism. Obama and others can say we have responded, look what we have done. However we have reached the stage where territory has to be taken. We would all like the arabs to step up but they are better at running away than fighting, they lack that vital "intestinal fortutude", the more common term being "guts". Saddam used to get them to fight at the end of a gun, we might learn from that. No doubt the Iraqi army remembers a number of glorious defeats and the whole of the arab world couldn't defeat Israel, I also doubt they can defeat ISIS

you guys crack me up . When Saddam was mass murdering and torturing by the 10s of thousands all was cool because under him there was so called stability .Now the Islamic State puts it on video and it's O MY GOD !!!

Saddam was mass murdering and torturing

Using the WMDs that weren't there, even though the Army bought them to destroy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/world/cia-is-said-to-have-bought-and-destroyed-iraqi-chemical-weapons.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=2&gwh=874462760CC9DE113982671750ECE328&gwt=pay&assetType=nyt_now

wait a minute ...... those stockpiles of WMD that were unaccounted for didn't exist ....right ?

If they did exist they may be the same WMD Assad has given up for destruction, who knows, rumour has it they were transported to Syria and buried. If so there is urgent need to defeat ISIS before they gain control of them. You forget Saddam was your lackey before he got off his chain, a useful tool to conduct your proxy war against Iran. He would be there still if he had not invaded Kuwait so let's not get self righteous here.

As to ISIS and their murdering ways they appear particularly heinous because of who the victims are and the manner of their executions. We look back at what was done in France 200 years ago and consider it was the price of freedom and far more blood flowed out of severed necks there, but it has become fashionable not to execute people, even criminals guilty of heinous crimes.

I suggest that fitting punishment for every ISIS fighter is to loose his head but I doubt anyone has the stomach for it

If they did exist they may be the same WMD Assad has given up for destruction, who knows, rumour has it they were transported to Syria and buried. If so there is urgent need to defeat ISIS before they gain control of them. You forget Saddam was your lackey before he got off his chain, a useful tool to conduct your proxy war against Iran. He would be there still if he had not invaded Kuwait so let's not get self righteous here.

As to ISIS and their murdering ways they appear particularly heinous because of who the victims are and the manner of their executions. We look back at what was done in France 200 years ago and consider it was the price of freedom and far more blood flowed out of severed necks there, but it has become fashionable not to execute people, even criminals guilty of heinous crimes.

I suggest that fitting punishment for every ISIS fighter is to loose his head but I doubt anyone has the stomach for it

yeah yeah yeah ... and everyone was friends with Uncle Joe in 1941 . But you are mistaken if you think the US had anything to do with Saddam invading Iran . The official position of the US during that war was that we did not take any sides . We only got involved against Iran when they threatened shipping in the Gulf.

Tom all I will respond is clandestine activities and support through weapon sales. Who bought the oil to help Saddam fund his war, someone did. It is a great shame your non-intervention could be turned off and on, but then a few marsh arabs are exactly that.

Anyway Tom the point is this group needs to be opposed on the ground and apparently the US will provide a regiment, no doubt supported by forces from other nations. It appears these forces have been sitting around in Kuwait so they don't have so far to go unless they are rotated out first

Graeme Wood of 'Atlantic ' magazine has a must read essay on the Islamic State . He tells why those who think that the group is not about Islam are making a fatal mistake . He tells why they must be opposed and unmercifully crushed ;the sooner the better .

What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/)

Does it really matter the religion a sick twisted human being professes? Or what they wrap their propaganda around Tom?

The solution for a mad rogue human(s), is the same for a mad rogue animal(s), capture, contain, or shoot the sucker. Forget the political jibber jabber. Hire a pro, or do it yourself. Obviously the locals need to HIRE A PRO! They are trying to do it themselves (with prodding from the west), and maybe they will make some progress.

The politics and the religious motives mean nothing when we judge the actions. Rogue dangerous humans sums it up for me. Don't care what they want.

Their motives mean everything to them and that is what you don't understand . Spend some time and read the article . It is informative if nothing else.

I agree with tal one answer to isis

I agree with tal one answer to isis

Yup, kill 'em all. Meanwhile, they make for some ugly women (http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/ISIS-fighters-dress-as-women-in-desperate-attempt-to-flee-battlefield-394060).

++http://www.jpost.com/HttpHandlers/ShowImage.ashx?id=277316&h=530&w=758

So they have demonstrated they are craven cowards but these were probably deviates anyway. I couldn't have a lower opinion of ISIS this just proves it

US troops leave Yemen

BBC News - US troops 'withdraw from Yemen' (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32000970)

In the face of islamic extremism from IS, Al Qaeda and shiite Houthi's has the US decided that Yemen is a bridge too far. There has been a serious effort against Al Qaeda in Yemen but all it has yielded is withdrawl giving IS a propaganda victory

we are about to take a back seat ,or even assist Qod forces who are bringing in heavy weaponry in to level the Sunni sections of Tikrit . By the end of next week we will have "negotiated " a "framework " for a deal with them that will lead to the Iranian nuke. Yeah the emperor has us retreating all over the world.

Come off it Tom, lead from behind is a right wing talking point invented to blast this president, and demean his policy of coalition building between cooperative partners.

Cooperation is not a part of the right wing republican dictionary.

I think he is right Tal the US is retreating back into isolationism. They are not taking the lead in Iraq, in fact the Iranians are taking the lead, and iran, well I doubt they are really interested in nuclear weapons but you have to consider that their enemy Israel has nuclear weapons and a willingness to use them. Now a change in attitude towards the palestinians may convince them they don't need them. The US has even failed to convince its allies not to join the China development bank. The wind is blowing

If you mean not sending in armies to cool regional hotspots, or deal with world disputes, is isolationism that's a crazy leap of logic.

I doubt they are really interested in nuclear weapons and I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you .


The US has even failed to convince its allies not to join the China development bank. A dagger that few realized how destructive it will be.

Come off it Tom, lead from behind is a right wing talking point invented to blast this president, and demean his policy of coalition building between cooperative partners.

Cooperation is not a part of the right wing republican dictionary.

and the emperor's weapons transfer to our enemies continues .

Pentagon loses track of $500 million in weapons, equipment given to Yemen - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-loses-sight-of-500-million-in-counterterrorism-aid-given-to-yemen/2015/03/17/f4ca25ce-cbf9-11e4-8a46-b1dc9be5a8ff_story.html)


Emperor Zero is an arsonist who is really enjoying his handiwork .

Don't need a bridge in Brooklyn Tom I have one in Sydney, the fact is Tom for a long time I believed the line of bull the US was spinning and then I found how hollow and misdirected it was. Now I don't believe what they present as facts. There were no WMD in Iraq, there won't be any WMD in Iran and I think the Ukrainians should sort it out for themselves because any solution you impose is no solution at all, just an empasse. The world is tired of fighting your proxy wars. But when you have a real cause in front of you, you hesitate just like you did with Hitler. What does it take for you to act, some perception of a real and present danger that results in carnage in the US.

What has happened in Yemen? Have you lost track of some million dollar hammers? What a beatup your article is, data dating back to 2007, a lot can happen in eight years and you have a long reputation for abandoning equipment and supplying the black market. Perhaps that equipment found its way to another conflict

There were no WMD in Iraq wrong

there won't be any WMD in Iran I am pretty sure that they already purchased weapons from the market that developed when the Soviet Union collapsed. Regardless ;if they had no ambitions to develop an Iranian nuke then they have no reason for their enrichment program and should have no issues with abandoning it .


and I think the Ukrainians should sort it out for themselves because any solution you impose is no solution at all, it is arguable if we are trying to "impose " any solution on them . What is not arguable is that Putin is indeed trying . Had he left them to their own devices ,the gvt in Kiev would've crushed the Eastern opposition . Look ,I'm not happy with our level of participation there now . But it is Russia that has created this crisis. Putin could not accept the ouster of Yanukovych and gave material support including heavy weapons (and Russian troops ) to the rebel's cause.


What we lost in Yemen is a key strategic geographic point . If either AQ or the Iranian clients take control (which seems inevitable ) then that will have major implications for the free flow of goods around the world.

wrong
I am pretty sure that they already purchased weapons from the market that developed when the Soviet Union collapsed. Regardless ;if they had no ambitions to develop an Iranian nuke then they have no reason for their enrichment program and should have no issues with abandoning it

If they had the weapons they would have no need of the nuclear program, no they want nuclear energy and perhaps they want more efficient reactors. Nuclear scientists have their ways. Why should you dictate how they go about it. Just bring them in from the cold and stop being so beligerant. They kicked your arse years ago and you are still carrying on the conflict and it is Israel and Saud who are goading you on. Who is the client state here?


it is arguable if we are trying to "impose " any solution on them . What is not arguable is that Putin is indeed trying . Had he left them to their own devices ,the gvt in Kiev would've crushed the Eastern opposition . Look ,I'm not happy with our level of participation there now . But it is Russia that has created this crisis. Putin could not accept the ouster of Yanukovych and gave material support including heavy weapons (and Russian troops ) to the rebel's cause.


It is not arguable. Clearly you are for a european trade solution because it will give you a door fro one of your famous free tade deals. Both Russia and Europe has deal on the table and I can understand that Russia saw a coup which put them out in the cold. I also think Yanukovych was like all eastern tyrants he needed to go. However this all must be seen through the prism of Russian paranoia. The Ukraine is heartland to the Russians and any encroachment is not favoured. They long remember the French and the Germans and much Russian blood was shed in the Ukraine.


What we lost in Yemen is a key strategic geographic point . If either AQ or the Iranian clients take control (which seems inevitable ) then that will have major implications for the free flow of goods around the world.

That particular geographic point was lost to the western world long ago, so you didn't loose anything. What you lost was your influence in that country but perhaps your client state, the House of Saud, will take it back for you, but wait I can never work out who is a client state of who. But don't worry the new canal through central america will solve any problem for you, it is just Europe and Saud who will have to worry

It is not arguable. Clearly you are for a european trade solution because it will give you a door fro one of your famous free tade deals. Both Russia and Europe has deal on the table and I can understand that Russia saw a coup which put them out in the cold. I also think Yanukovych was like all eastern tyrants he needed to go. However this all must be seen through the prism of Russian paranoia. The Ukraine is heartland to the Russians and any encroachment is not favoured. They long remember the French and the Germans and much Russian blood was shed in the Ukraine.

Whether we support or oppose integration into the EU zone is irrelevent . Kiev wants it and they are the government in power . As you know , I am familiar with the Russian interests in Ukraine ,historically , financially , and strategically . I also know that Putin is close to going the way of Khrushchev 1964 because he has botched his whole intervention. That is not necessarily a good thing because there are hardliners in the Kremlin who would favor a full fledged invasion to at least take Eastern Ukraine as far as the Dnieper River.


no they want nuclear energy and perhaps they want more efficient reactors. if that were the case then they can purchase the enriched uranium needed . The main state sponsor of terrorism has no "right" to have it's own enrichment program ;regardless of their intent . But you know and I know that their program is for weapon development .
Let's see .... it takes about a ton of 20% enriched uranium to make a bomb. Will the 12ers in Tehran agree to limit their stockpile of enriched uranium to less that 500 lbs ? Or will they exchange it for a form that is difficult to reconvert for weapons use ? Of course not ! They want it for weapon production.

Without the Europeans, Chinese, and the Russians signing on to any new sanctions the congress proposes, the Iranians can do as they please. This isn't just the US trying to get a deal, it's the P5. The US alone cannot dictate, or enforce anything, no matter what the congress or Nettie are hollering about.

It's foolish to even think anyone can stop the Iranians without a deal.

if that were the case then they can purchase the enriched uranium needed . The main state sponsor of terrorism has no "right" to have it's own enrichment program ;regardless of their intent . But you know and I know that their program is for weapon development .
Let's see .... it takes about a ton of 20% enriched uranium to make a bomb. Will the 12ers in Tehran agree to limit their stockpile of enriched uranium to less that 500 lbs ? Or will they exchange it for a form that is difficult to reconvert for weapons use ? Of course not ! They want it for weapon production.


That's your answer to everything, you can't have your own industries, you can have the industries we tell you you can have. That's yankee capitalism. The washingtom mafia in action. Don't talk about states sponsoring terrorism. The US has sponsored many terrorist groups when it suited them. You choose to think of them as freedom fighters until they turn around an bite you on the bum, as I said I don't swallow that line of b/s anymore. Look if the US were selling the reactors to Iran instead of the Russians you would have no problem with their nuclear program, it all about client states

Actually it's the "p5 +1 " .....;and by the end of the week they will announce that they have reached a "framework" for an agreement with the 12ers . In layman's terms that means they will punt again.

Meanwhile the Iranian centrifuges continue to whirl .

Bottom line is that if the emperor thinks he can push this deal on us without the Senate's legitimate and constitutional 'advise and consent ' then it has NO chance of success . The emperor's hero Woodrow Wilson tried that route in 1918 and the result was the US rejecting the Versailles treaty and admission into the League of Nations. The emperor has long said it's his goal the precent an Iranian nuke . He should be honest with us that his REAL goal is detente with Iran.....and the development of an Iranian nuke will be an inconvenient concession towards that goal.


Meanwhile ,we continue our retreat in the Middle East and cede more and more of our influence to the apocalyptic murderous regime in Tehran.
When they start using their heavy weapons in Tikrit shortly ,I wonder if the world will condemn them like they do the Israelis when a Gaza residence gets damaged ?

When does the mandatory draft start General Tom? If you mean the influence of military might who pays for all that stuff?

Tax cuts for rich people, and wars all over the place didn't work to great last time, nor did the multiple deployment of limited parts of the population. So tell congress to declare a war, or define what they want, and put it on the presidents desk and not just holler would have, should have, could have!

You cannot intervene in every countries civil war and expect a good outcome. You can't change a regime and put one in that you like.

Retreat and regroup isn't a losing strategy, when you consider the alternatives and changes in the landscape.

Mandatory draft is a progressive's idea. I've heard that for the last decade from the likes of Charlie Rangel and others . People like that look at the military as a jobs program ,and an instrument of the nanny-state .

Yes our military could use more professionals; But not as many as you think. The contingent that was planned to remain in Iraq in the SOFA would've been enough to stop the rise of the Islamic State ,and to check Iranian influence in the country until they were able to secure the country themselves.

Before the emperor abandoned our commitment there were intercepted letters from the 'Islamic State of Iraq' (the precursor to the Islamic State ) telling the AQ leadership that their war in Iraq was lost so don't send any more jihadists to the fight there .
Letters from al Qaeda leaders show Iraqi effort is in disarray | The Long War Journal (http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/09/letters_from_al_qaed.php)

Not only that ...intercepted communications showed that AQ was just as resigned to defeat in Afghanistan as they were in Iraq .

The letter appeared to be from Osama bin Laden's deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, said Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman.
He did not show the letter or say how or where it was obtained, but said it was considered authentic and recent.
The missive warned that the network faced crises in many areas, he said."Zawahiri says that they've lost many of their key leaders and that they've virtually resigned themselves to defeat in Afghanistan, that their lines of communication and funding have been severely disrupted," Mr Whitman told reporters on Thursday.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | US 'intercepts al-Qaeda letter' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4318478.stm)

So yeah ;we are losing our influence because of a fundamentally flawed foreign policy by the emperor who embraces our enemies while he alienates our friends.

How about the middle east getting their own political act together, and we don't have to lose our youngsters over in the desert fighting guerilla warfare. Sorry Tom, I just ain't buying your temporary quick fix that's wastes time, money, and blood, while rich sheiks and blue blood entitled arabs sit on their fat arses and count money. And for sure I don't care what AQ or Shell Oil says about it.

How you can ignore shuffling youngsters in and out of a combat zone multiple times for 10 years, for a pat on the back is beyond me, and protecting Romney's, and Trumps grand kids from serving their country is par for the course for Republican excuses to jump from one war to another paid for on the backs of poor and middle class taxpayers.

You want a war, then raise an army, and pay for it fairly. You don't have to be a progressive to see the utter absurdity of rich guy tax cuts and a bunch of wars.

How you can ignore the implications of us sitting it out is beyond me. We've tried watching the world's chaos from an ocean away in the past ,and we found that we eventually get dragged into the world affairs anyway. Your idea of a fortress America with it's draw bridge drawn up was a quaint idea a century ago .

fortress America with it's draw bridge drawn up .


Fortress america with its drawers down is a closer analogy. You have become the military that fights its wars with an armchair and a joystick and you just saw where not having a sufficient force on the ground to protect these assets gets you in Yemen. Yes, a large standing army is an employment program unless you have active participation in a war but drafting all that unemployed youth has real national advantages, it injects a discipline and purpose they can't get anywhereelse. What is happening is you are languishing for sense of purpose because you know that it will take a huge effort to take out a few determined terrorists in Iraq/Syria with no guarantee that in the end you are improving anything

and you just saw where not having a sufficient force on the ground to protect these assets gets you in Yemen

what we saw in Yemen is the natural outcome when you elect a fool as the person directing your foreign policy .

Well good luck guarding the whole arab world with a volunteer army, and a bunch of expensive private contractors.

The arab world seems to demonstrate that given enough incentive it might be possible

OK I'll say it because no one else has ISIS got their backsides kicked in Tikrit but it isn't big news, just a side show, because the great powers really had little part in it, they flew a few sorties when asked but otherwise stayed out of it. The real battle is yet to come as they approach Mosul, meanwhile ISIS is attacking targets of opportunity in Damascus, could their plan be a quick thrust to take Syria and retreat?

because the great powers really had little part in it, they flew a few sorties when asked but otherwise stayed out of it.

I'd say the air campaign was pivotal . I understand why we did it . Iran was sending in heavy artillery to level Tikrit . The process would've been messier and prolonged . The air campaign eliminated the need.
Now the ethnic cleansing of Tikrit can commence.

It must make our pilots real proud that they are supporting a group that was responsible for a large portion of the casualties we had in Iraq . It clearly demonstrates that the emperor has fully aligned the US with the Persian empire .

I hear your naval air force claims it has won back 25% of Iraq. With no boots on the ground how did they do it? another mission accomplished? Yes your air support was pivitol, the ground attack was faltering, militia can only do so much. What you need to understand is there are enemies and enemies and ISIS is the greater enemy and just maybe standing together for a little while might change attitudes. It didn't work well after WWII but maybe this time, when you don't have an army at the gates...

I think you need to understand that times have changed and there are others who have risen to the challenge because it is their turf that is ultimately threatened. The negotiations have gone well with Iran, they have what they want, Obama has what he wants and only Israel is unhappy and if Israel is unhappy the GOP is unhappy. What does it feel like to be Netinyahyu's bltch

The negotiations have gone well with Iran, they have what they want

yes they do ;the Iranian nuke ,and complete capitulation by the west .



Obama has what he wants
I'd say he's Chamberlain ,but that would be unkind to Chamberlain. Chamberlain was wrong ;but he was also a British patriot who in the end supported Churchill's efforts during the war . The emperor is more like Philippe Petain of Vichi France and Vidkun Quisling of Norway .


and only Israel is unhappy and if Israel is unhappy the GOP is unhappy. What does it feel like to be Netinyahyu's bltch

That raises an interesting question. What does the emperor gain from this ? I think his real motivation is to take down the state of Israel . He's banking on the bet that if there is a 'framework' for an agreement with the apocalyptic 12ers in Tehran and the P5+1 then it is less likely that Israel will strike against the nuclear infrastructure that they just rubber stamped .
But the threat to Israel is not diminished . In fact this agreement makes it more perilous making it MORE likely that Israel will act .
So either the emperor and his Forest Gump Sec State are complete buffoons ,or they have sinister motivations regarding Israel.

I used to think that he was just anxious to have any foreign policy legacy . But that can't be it . The world is littered with his foreign policy failures. Yes ,I get his basic premise that the US was over -extended . His prescription ,to just abandon the role the US has assumed since the end of WWII ,has been to leave a chaotic void where we exit . The world laughs at his red lines . Wherever he's drawn them ,the lines have been crossed (including the deadline for a framework). The Sunni world sees the deal as US weakness and the Shia world as affirmation of their ascendency. What he has done is signal to the world the US no longer has the will to be the hegemon.

You say that it's only Republican opposition to this . I assure you the opposition to this Lausanne framework is the most bipartisan politics has been here in 25 years. But that doesn't deter the emperor . He tells the Senate to abandon it's constitutional role in the passing of treaties.....and he has gone after Dem Senators like Menendez who opposed him,slapping him with a criminal indictment for things he overlooked from other Dems in the rank and file .

Are you suggesting Omama is having a cleanout in the ranks? I think you read too much into this, this opposition of Iran has been around a long time and opposition to their nuclear program is fueled by Israel. They should be much more concerned about developments closer to home. If Syria falls there will be an arab army willing to take them on. In case you haven't noticed we have a chaotic void now. This is what happens when you rely on rhetoric instead of action. The agreement with Iran only came as a result of the intervention of others, left to the US there is only stalemate, but Iran is mature enough to help out in Iraq while the US dithers

Are you suggesting Omama is having a cleanout in the ranks? Yes ;he is purging Menendez with a Justice Dept indictment . Menendez is the leading Democrat opposition to both the emperor's Iran policies ,and Cuba. He also was until yesterday the ranking Dem on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee ;the Committee that would 1st review any "treaty " .

Now I understand that Menendez is a snake in the grass and probably as guilty as hell. But it is curious that his Justice Dept has evidence that Harry Reid is a worse criminal ...and he has gotten a pass for years . In fact ;Reid should be charged for the same case that Menendez is being charged for .

The case involves special favors from Menendez to ophthalmologist Salomon Melgen for campaign contributions to Menendez campaign . But Melgan did not make the donations to Menendez's campaign . He made them to an entity called “Majority PAC.”.....a political pac controlled by Harry Reid .

Meglan is charged with overbilling Medicare injections of Lucentis to his patients .So he went to Menendez asking for his help. He in turn went to Reid .Reid personally interceded to arrange a meeting for Menendez with HHS's then-Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. The indictment (at p. 49) explains that the meeting took place on August 2, 2012, and that Sebelius rebuffed Menendez.
So in fact Meglan's campaign contributions bought access from both Menendez and Reid . But only one of them is charged. Oh btw ,just days before the meeting with Sibelius ,a meeting that both Reid and Menendez attended ,Meglan forked over an additional $100,000 to Majority Pac. That money did not go to the Menendez campaign .

This is what the emperor calls prosecutorial discretion . He charges his political opponents and gives a pass to his allies (also see the Justice Dept's decision to not charge Lois Lerner ).


I think you read too much into this, this opposition of Iran has been around a long time and opposition to their nuclear program is fueled by Israel. They should be much more concerned about developments closer to home. If Syria falls there will be an arab army willing to take them on.


Israel can handle any opponent ,or alliance of opponents in the region that does not have nukes.
But let's talk about the Iranian lies about their program . They claim they need it for energy production. That's a lie . You know it and I know it . They are a net energy exporter when they aren't under sanctions for being a terrorist state and a state violating proliferations treaties.
But why would the emperor buy into their lie ? He opposes the construction of nuclear plants in the US and was in his community action days a no -nuke advocate. As a student he wrote papers on the subject ,and earlier in his Presidency ,he advocated a no -nuke world.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/world/05nuclear.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

So why the sudden turnaround ,making policy that guarantees a proliferation of nukes in the most volatile region on the planet ? Answer ..... his hatred for Israel supersedes his lifetime goal of a nuke free world .

his hatred for Israel supersedes his lifetime goal of a nuke free world .


Where is your evidence for this?

There is a difference in settling for what you can get and continuing on a path that will definitely lead to war. Obama wants to end nuclear weapons, an admirable goal, we can put it up there with limiting climate change. We know it isn't the best of all possible solutions but the world may have to settle for nuclear energy if it is to achieve other goals

I think your hatred of Obama supercedes reason

Proof of what ? That the emperor hates Israel ? It's undeniable that he has been the U.S. president least friendly toward Israel since its founding. Even Jimmy Carter ,who calls them an apartheid state was friendlier .

The emperor consistently misrepresents the level of Israel expansion in the West Bank ;and he knows it 's a lie. Instead of expanding settlements during the emperor's reign ,the Israelis abandoned all settlements in Gaza ,and the level of building in the West Bank has all but disappeared . So when there is some construction in Jerusalem in Jewish designated areas .the emperor condemns the building as an expansion.
The emperor condemned Israel in very strong terms when Hamas was bombing Israel from Gaza . He found any civilian death in the Israeli response "inexcusable " .

In his Cairo speech he compared the Palestinians to African American slaves pre-Civil War ;by extension making the Israelis the 'slave masters ' . He undermined Egypt -Israeli cooperation that led to the cease fire in Gaza . He has adopted the false narrative that Jews don't have a historic claim to the land.

He has threatened to sanction Israel in the UN ,and has threatened to support a UN initiative to impose a 2 state solution. He refuses to recognize Jerusalem as the legitimate Capitol of Israel ,and refuses to acknowledge any legitimacy to Israel's claim to any part of the city .
He has consistently insulted Bibi ..be it making him wait in the White House basement while the emperor ate his dinner ; mocking him on open mike to the French leader . He sent a political team to Israel to interfere in their elections opposing Bibi .

What more proof do you need ? He has completely undermined any chance Israel has to preemptively deal with the Iranian nuke program when they are the nation most under threat by the program.

Hey you base your assumptions on someone who doesn't want Israel to expand, this in your mind represents hatred. The Palestinians hands on not clean but then nor are the Israelis. Israel has been an occupying power for longer than most of us can remember so pointing out that their actions need to change is not hatred, it is just the US interfering in the affairs of an other nation, which is a pastime for Washington. Ok Obama doesn't share the white man's burden for Israel, I get it, they are a recalcicant lot. I don't like the two state solution but without a Palestinian state in palestine this conflict will go on for ever so imposing it might be the only way it happens. I think the West Bank demonstrates that a Palestininan state is possible without conflict. What to do with Gaza ? Ah well, any advance on creating a new Singapore? I don't see Gaza realistically as part of a palestinian state

As far as Israel dealing preemptively with the Iranians, are you mad too? There has been enough gunboat diplomacy in the middle east . The Iranians have a right to develop, the idea that bans can be imposed on anyone is an assumption of one world government and if you said Obama wanted to impose that I might believe you

if you want to impose a 2 state solution then you are no different than those you criticize. However ,don't blame Israel for no end. When they get a Palestinian leader who is a reliable partner in the negotiations then perhaps they can come to a conclusion. But the Palestinian leaders ,be they Fatah or Hamas have never budged from their basic position that Israel has no right to exist . I believe that is the emperor's basic position too. He has NEVER asked for any give from the Palestinians ,but has spent the last 7 years putting constant pressure on Israel to make concessions. The emperor's starting point in fact is pre-1967 borders which is the height of unrealistic absurdity .
You say the Palestinian hands are not clean ? Thanks for the understatement of the year . They are the sole reason that no progress has been made . I'll tell you something else . If your towns were subject to constant indiscriminate terror rocket attacks you would be singing a different tune as to what the appropriate action should be .

And no I'm not mad in saying the Israelis should've taken out the nuke sites in Iran a long time ago . They bombed the Iraqi nuke program that you say didn't exist . They took out a N Korean designed nuke site in Syria too that no one knew existed . I'll say it again. Iranian nukes are an existential threat to the security of Israel. The US was willing to risk world nuclear war over Russian nukes in Cuba for the same reason . Thankfully when push came to shove we were dealing with rational actors . Don't count on it there .

Tom Isreal like to conveniently forget that there is a level of frustration among the Palestinians that will never be resolved until they see themselves as free. Yes there are arabs who don't concede a right to exist, but ask yourself, isn't that attitude entenched in Israel too? Do they see a right for a palestinian state to exist. You know as well as I do this all comes down to ideas of preexistant right, of who occupied the land first. Don't think I don't understand this a little, we have a population here who thinks that they have a preexistant right, a little different situation, but nevertheless such attitudes ultimately lead to violence.

If you could remove the link between a piece of land and a political system. It might be possible for the two peoples to exist side by side but the muslim will never agree to equality with anyone else and this is at the heart of the problem, however like it or not the palestinian must be given equal rights.



And no I'm not mad in saying the Israelis should've taken out the nuke sites in Iran a long time ago . They bombed the Iraqi nuke program that you say didn't exist .

Do you have a little problem with time and comprehension? I never said that there had not been WMD in Iraq, just that at the time Bush invaded there is no evidence that there were actually WMD in Iraq. Now where they were and why Saddam didn't use them if he had them, an entirely different question and not satisfactorily answered as far a I am concerned because if you know they exist you should be interested in destroying them particularly with the rise of ISIS. Bush invaded Iraq using the excuse that the question remained unanswered and alleged he was making a preemptive strike and what I see is this thinking is all too prevelent both in the US and in Israel. I also think Obama is not a subscriber to such thinking.

Cuba was an entirely different issue to Iran, stop using strawman arguments. Iran does not have the capability to point nuclear missiles at Israel. If That capability existed we would expect that Israel might attack them. You also have to put Cuba in context. The US had attacked them (Bay of Pigs), Iran has not attacked Israel. Now if Iran parked missiles in Damascus or Aram.. but in fact Iran has parked non-nuclear missiles in Gaza and Lebanon and Israel has allowed the situation to escalate until it became intolerable without a preemptive strike. Mixed messages

O God, do not remain silent; do not turn a deaf ear, do not stand aloof, O God. See how your enemies growl, how your foes rear their heads. With cunning they conspire against your people; they plot against those you cherish. “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation, so that Israel’s name is remembered no more.” With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you— the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, of Moab and the Hagrites, Byblos, Ammon and Amalek, Philistia, with the people of Tyre. Even Assyria has joined them to reinforce Lot’s descendants.
Psalm 83

Nice fable.

No karma it actually demonstrates how long the animonosity between the arabs and the jews has existed and that there is no solution. What the arabs couldn't do the romans did and for nineteen hundred years the jews did not occupy palestine but having reestablised the state of Israel the UN has a responsibility to protect it, a responsibility they seem to have abrogated

Nice fable.

Iraq dictator Saddam Hussein lives on in Islamic State, ISIS (http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/iraqi-dictator-saddam-hussein-lives-on-in-islamic-state/story-fnh81ifq-1227292844194)

It becomes more and more obvious that the west doesn't understand the middle east and should exit. There is no point in fighting an islamist war for them no matter how dreadfull the combatants appear. This is a generational war, it will not end soon. Just as the palestinian war has become a generational war, the war in Iraq and Syria will become generational and this war is ancient with combatants whose ancestors contested the same territory. This what the west doesn't understand; unfinished business.. Iran and the shiites on one side, Saud and the sunni's on the other. This is the monster that Bush unleashed

Perhaps Tal you think this is another fable however Israel is safe while these protagonists fight each other but for them the ancient enemies also persist. Who, for example, do you think the gazans are, just palestinians? well some might be, but there is more. And who do you think the palestinians are? Tom is right, this fight has existed for a long time. Ancient peopels whether jew or ismaelite want their land back. Tom maybe Obama understands this

it actually demonstrates how long the animonosity between the arabs and the jews has existed and that there is no solution.I agree. The amount of money the US gives to Israel (billions of dollars each year) is a crime considering the goos that could be done on their own soil with that money.

NK's heart is with those who want to destroy Israel and ethnically cleanse the Levant .

You're an idiot who puts words in people's mouths. That how you "discuss".

Tom is right, this fight has existed for a long time. Ancient peopels whether jew or ismaelite want their land back. Tom maybe Obama understands this
The emperor loves the Muslim word like brothers from a different mother. He also hates Israel with a flaming passion. When you understand that then all else falls into place.

There is a solution, but neither side in the ME (There are MANY sides) wants it. They rather talk crap to each other while furthering their own agendas (leaders, NOT populations). Doesn't help at all that there are many factions, both rich and poor, trying to be major players, and policy makers.

Not everyone slobbers over the Israeli position, allies or not. They keep expanding into the disputed territories and fencing in the Palestinians instead of drawing a line for a map, and being done with it. The Palestinians have Hamas screwing up their own position through terrorism. Can't blame Israel for being scared, but I would like to put a boot in both their arses though.

Thats why Nettie has to scare up the votes to keep power, like his American counterparts.

Tomder rule #1 : if you don't embrace something with all your heart you obviously hate it with a passion. Once you understand that bity of lack of logic then all else falls into place. This is true of most neo-cons actiually.

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They keep expanding into the disputed territories and fencing in the Palestinians instead of drawing a line for a map, and being done with it. The Palestinians have Hamas screwing up their own position through terrorism. .

Tal what part of building a filthy great wall is drawing a line on a map do you not understand? The jews have no intention of ceding Juresalem to the arabs that one point is as much a sticking point as any other

The news regarding ISIS is becoming more bizairre, they have time to fight statues and molest 9 year old girls and to invade a refugee camp, meanwhile the Iraqi rest on their laurels, it is though everyone takes a rest from the fighting

because Mosul and Fallujah won't be as easy a nut to crack as Tikriti .

Yes they will be fighting the insurgency all over again there, I expect they will leave that until they have swept ISIS from the rest of Iraq and I expect the militias don't have a taste for long fights as they start to come into winter

You may as well trade your daily news freakout for a yearly one ad diversify your entertainment menu a bit Clete. Its going to be a long decade. Invest in popcorn.

What you are saying Tal is that this will become just another local fracas like Syria in which no one is interested, just a disturbance in the arab world

No, Clete that's what you are saying.

Well Ok Tal but popcorn is such an american thing I prefer cashew and macadamia nuts. So are you telling me that Iraq is another Afghanistan ? I think we already knew that. As to the daily news bit, news is scarse these days because there is no interest over there and so there is no flow except for Al Zazerra

We are now going to be in for another two years of razzamatazz and all sense of reality will go out the window

Your reality will always be just outside your window, and no the sky is not falling, but take an umbrella just in case.

The sky doesn't fall where I come from Tal we reserve that for people in northern climes. I think you have lost you appitite because victories are hard to come by and when you get them they are only pyrric anyway, oh for the days when you could bomb their brains out

Evolution and progress is a little to messy for your taste. Sit on the sidelines, and holler about how good you are. We have plenty of bombs still if you REALLY want something to holler about.

Yep talk is cheap, you used them once and then decided carpet bombing is more useful but you don't even do that anymore, a little something about civilian populations who you worry about when it suits you

I think is is more that Daesh is the only game in town