Jack Kemp's old district in Republican reliable Snow Country is up for grabs in a special election next week.

This seat was a solid Republican seat for years. It voted twice for president George Bush and solidly for John McCain in 2008'

But it became vacant after incumbent Chris Lee decided he couldn't keep his shirt on (and probably his pants. He got caught responding to a personal ad from a woman on Craigslist . When she saw he was a married Congressman she submitted the evidence to Gawker. Lee quickly resigned .

Guv Cuomo called for a special election for May 24.

The candidates are :
Assemblywoman Jane Corwin (Republican)

Erie County Clerk Kathy Hochul (Democrat)

'Buffalo Beast 'editor Ian Murphy (Green Party).He's the clown who prank-called Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker pretending to be David Koch.

Jack Davis ( a phony Dem who hijacked a place on the ballot under the 'Tea Party.')

This race is too close to call between Corwin and Hochul .It wouldn't be if Davis wasn't grabbing significant votes from Republicans who have not done their research to show he's a Dem in Tea Party clothing . Murphy is not really a factor.

This race has grabbed national attention because the Dems think they can pick the seat off. Money is now pouring in to the candidates .Madame Mimi and other prominent Dems have been in for fundraising and campaigning .The House crier ; Speaker Boehner has also come to the oft neglected region of NY .

Both major parties are spending a fortune now . The issues are Kathy Hochul's support for big government spending . Jane Corwin is accused of supporting the Ryan plan for Medicare . This could've been an early indicator of the national mood going into 2012 if it was a 2 party race.

Davis is a Dem plant taking advantage of NY's "liberal" use of 3rd party ballot slots.He's a fraud who is as much a tea party person as Chuck Schumer . Davis ran for office in 2004, 2006, and 2008 as a big government Dem.
The Tea Party Express got involved this week and formally is endorsing Corwin.Tea New York spokesman Rus Thompson says his group is backing Corwin. Truth told ,there is no tea party group that will endorse
Davis because he's a phony .

Davis has been endorsed by the local ACORN party, the Working Family Party. He is pro-abortion ,supports partial birth abortions.

Davis is calling for a new tariff program advocated by Keynesian lefty economist Paul Krugman. He is opposed to any
Entitlement reform at the federal level.

This race could've become a referendum on the Ryan plan or the Democrat big government approach .Instead it became a side show. The Tea Party needs to address this problem before the 2012 elections before anymore TINO's(teaparty in name only)hijack the name.

Davis has been endorsed by the local ACORN party, the Working Family Party. He is pro-abortion ,supports partial birth abortions.
More tomder55 lies:
Jack on the Issues | Jack Davis for Congress | JackDavis.org (http://www.jackdavis.org/issues/)

I oppose partial birth abortion and all federal funding for abortion and agencies that provide abortion.

Maybe the Washington Compost is lying too ?

Davis favors gun rights and abortion rights.
Who is Jack Davis? - The Fix - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/who-is-jack-davis/2011/05/11/AFPOfcyG_blog.html)

Can you show me anywhere that I claimed he favored either partial birth abortion or funding Federal funding ? Answer NO

Go away .You have nothing to contribute.

Can you show me anywhere that I claimed he favored either partial birth abortion or funding Federal funding ?

Sure - in your opening post:

Davis has been endorsed by the local ACORN party, the Working Family Party. He is pro-abortion ,supports partial birth abortions

Jane Corwin is accused of supporting the Ryan plan for Medicare

This race could've become a referendum on the Ryan plan or the Democrat big government approach .Instead it became a side show. Hello tom:

Couple things... She is accused of supporting it, because she SAID she did: the Ryan plan "protects Medicare". (http://blogs.democratandchronicle.com/voteup/2011/04/18/corwin-ryan-deal-protects-medicare/)

And, it IS a referendum on the Ryan plan. The fact that it ISN'T a slam dunk for Republicans, in this SOLIDLY Republican district, tells you how popular the Ryan plan is.

excon

YouTube - Jack Davis on Late-Term Abortion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNv3Tefy8QA)

YouTube - Jack Davis on Federal Funding of Abortion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX0HrLHLaeg)

The fact that it ISN'T a slam dunk for Republicans, in this SOLIDLY Republican district, tells you how popular the Ryan plan is.



I'd believe that if Davis wasn't going peeling off about 20% of voters who think there is a TP candidate on the ballot.
Too bad... I would welcome a true campaign between 2 candidates with opposing views on the Ryan plan. Instead there is a trojan horse that will distort the results.

I would welcome a true campaign between 2 candidates with opposing views on the Ryan plan.Hello again, tom:

It'll happen. Wait till 2012.

excon

Yes... it will not be this race . This posting is also a warning to people who think TP candidates represent their views just because they run on a TP line . This will be a problem in States like NY that usually allow multiple 3rd party slots on the ballot and relatively easy process for getting them on the ballot.
This guy is running as a Tea Party guy when he is clearly a rich Dem. In TP clothing . Actually he's like Donald Chump ;Republican-turned-Democrat-turned-Republican-turned-'Tea Party' candidate . He ran all his other races as a Dem.

After three straight losses as a Democrat, Davis courted the right — though he’s provided no roadmap to explain his shift.

After failing to win the endorsement of either the Republican Party or the Conservative Party in this special election, Davis started a ‘Tea Party’ line.

Tea party activists were miffed; Davis never talked to them or asked for their support. He just got to the Board of Elections before they did. In New York, anyone who files 3,500 signatures to get their name on the ballot can create their own party line. (In New York, candidates can run on a variety of “lines”, allowing for multiple candidates on the ballot in a general election.)

Now, neither party wants him. When he went to the Republican Party in hopes of an endorsement this year, he shocked officials with his suggestion that Hispanic farmworkers be deported and replaced with inner-city African-Americans. (“We have to put the blacks back to work. If we had less immigration, we’d have more blacks working,” an unrepentant Davis told a local paper after the event.)

While Republicans have worked to paint him as a liberal Democrat and Democrats insist he’s a Republican at heart, Davis’ ideology is too inconsistent to be readily categorized. Davis favors gun rights and abortion rights. He’s also an outspoken immigration opponent and believes Mexican immigrants will start a new civil war.

But his real issue is free trade. Now 78-years-old and a life-long resident of western New York, Davis graduated from Buffalo University with a degree in engineering. He founded a silicon carbide heating elements company, I Squared R Element, in 1964. He was a Republican until about a decade ago; that’s when the decline of American manufacturing became his overriding concern. He was kicked out of a 2003 fundraising dinner with then-Vice President **** Cheney for raising the free trade issue. Soon after, he became a Democrat and started running for office.

He avoids actual campaigning. He’s refusing to participate in debates, as he did in his past bids. Last night he apparently hit a Republican volunteer trying to get him on videotape.

Who is Jack Davis? - The Fix - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/who-is-jack-davis/2011/05/11/AFPOfcyG_blog.html)

He will pick off enough votes to make this race close. The difference will not be the issues debated so any talk of this being an early indicator of 2012 is fanciful.

This special election is today. The question to decide is who killed or will kill Medicare as we know it ?

Is it Ryan and his proposal to reform Medicare ? Or it it Obama Pelosi ,Reid ,and their $575 billion in cuts from the program's funding over the next 10 years ? This at the same time Obamacare increases eligibility . So more seniors will be eligible and less $$ available for a program already on the ropes .
So who's really rolling grandma over the cliff ?
How will the shortfall be covered ? Well there is this thing called the Independent Payment Advisory Board who will decide if grandma should be covered . Do you think there decisions will be based on whether grandma needs the treatment ,or if the government program can pay for it?

The other issue here is a warning to any Republican who thinks it's a good idea to run an independent campaign in 2012.

Currently it looks like Democrat Kathy Hochul has a small lead going into the polling today in this traditionally Republican district. There is a false flag Tea Party impersonator on the ballot who will pick off enough votes from Republican Jane Corwin to possibly throw the election to Hochul.

Beware the trojan tea bag . It contains poison.

Oh yeah... one more.. a warning to Republican officials... keep your shirts on ,your hands to yourself ,and your privates in your pants . Dems can get away with that . Republicans can't .

Hello again, tom:

Given that the Tea Party Candidate has been found out, it really IS turning out to be a referendum on the Ryan plan. You and your minions can say it isn't.. In fact, I hope you do say that.

Plus, you blame the Democrats, but are unwilling to touch ANY of your rich supporters gold... I suppose I could say that it's THEM who are killing Medicare. Why not??

excon

Under the Ryan plan the rich have to pay more out of pocket. It's the people with less $$ who get the voucher benefit because they are individually risk-adjusted and the poor, who are in worse shape than the rich, will get bigger vouchers. Those who will have to pay more out of pocket will be the rich. . You know that and I know that.

Also the Ryan plan reduces or eliminates loop holes that favor the rich . Obama has done nothing about that except talk a great game.

The Dems.plan of demagoging this with 'Mediscare' may work in this race because there are too many Republicans who are not adequately coached or educated on the plan. That unforced error will be corrected by next year.

Hello again, tom:

You STILL are not addressing the 600 lb. gorilla in the room.. It matters NOT how many vouchers you give to the old and infirm, if there's NOBODY on the other end to take them. Without being forced, there's NO insurance company in the world who would WILLINGLY sell insurance to these sick and old people.. It's just not profitable.

Plus, IF, as you say, the vouchers WILL cover the needs of the old person so he DOESN'T have to go into his OWN pocket, Medicare ALREADY does that, and it does it CHEAPER than private insurance companies could.

The TRUTH of the Ryan plan, that YOU don't mention, is that EVERY old person will dig into his own pocket to cover the shortfall in his medical care. THAT is the PURPOSE of the program - to SAVE MONEY..

If, again, as you say, it's the RICH who are going to be bearing the burden of the Ryan plan, why don't you just TAX the rich NOW and leave Medicare alone?

excon

there are too many Republicans who are not adequately coached or educated on the plan. .


Or as my Dad always said, "not all republicans are idiots, but most idiots are Republicans". :)

You STILL are not addressing the 600 lb. gorilla in the room.. It matters NOT how many vouchers you give to the old and infirm, if there's NOBODY on the other end to take them.

I'll raise the 800lb gorilla... the service providers that are no longer taking Medicare patients.
When Doctors Opt Out - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993462778328019.html?mod=googlenews_wsj%0A)
When Obamacare begins reducing reimbursements more as a cost saving this will become a crisis .

BTW ;many seniors with preexisting conditions supplement their Medicare with private insurance already. How'd they do that ?

BTW ;many seniors with preexisting conditions supplement their Medicare with private insurance already. How'd they do that ?Hello again, tom:

Uhhh, because the LAW makes 'em. There AIN'T no physical for ANY Medicare supplemental policy. But, they ain't complaining... This is a gimme program, cause they're WELL subsidized to make up for the profits they DON'T get from selling insurance...

excon

BTW ;many seniors with preexisting conditions supplement their Medicare with private insurance already. How'd they do that ?
My husband had stent surgery last year. It came to $82,000+. He was just past his 65th birthday. Medicare picked up all but $1,200. The insurance he has through his former workplace, which had paid for a bypass about eight years ago, refused to pay anything.

My husband had stent surgery last year. It came to $82,000+. He was just past his 65th birthday. Medicare picked up all but $1,200. The insurance he has through his former workplace, which had paid for a bypass about eight years ago, refused to pay anything.
Holy crap! Here your costs would be for extras like a private room, no other costs involved.

My husband had stent surgery last year. It came to $82,000+. He was just past his 65th birthday. Medicare picked up all but $1,200. The insurance he has through his former workplace, which had paid for a bypass about eight years ago, refused to pay anything.

I'd be willing to bet Medicare didn't pay almost $81k, they pay according to a fee schedule (http://www.cms.gov/apps/physician-fee-schedule/). So how much did the providers write off?

I'd be willing to bet Medicare didn't pay almost $81k, they pay according to a fee schedule (http://www.cms.gov/apps/physician-fee-schedule/). So how much did the providers write off?
Providers? The paperwork said Medicare paid it.

That site is for physician fees. His cardiologist accepts Medicare reimbursement, so he charged accordingly.

Providers? The paperwork said Medicare paid it.

That site is for physician fees. His cardiologist accepts Medicare reimbursement, so he charged accordingly.

He can bill whatever he wants - he can only collect what Medicare allows. That is why so many doctors have jumped ship on Medicare because it doesn't pay enough.

He can bill whatever he wants - he can only collect what Medicare allows. That is why so many doctors have jumped ship on Medicare because it doesn't pay enough.
Yes, he accepts Medicare assignment, thus he bills only what he knows Medicare will pay. Btw, he's one of the top cardiologists in this county. But much of that bill was for hospital charges.

My husband got an itemized bill. Amazing what certain things supposedly cost. Next time we will supply our own from home and save money.

Doctors have jumped ship because they are greedy. One of my oncologists pushed meds on me (that I refused). I found out later she would receive a percentage from the pharmaceutical company for having gotten me on that drug. I'm guessing that's s.o.p.

Doctors have jumped ship because they are greedy. One of my oncologists pushed meds on me (that I refused). I found out later she would receive a percentage from the pharmaceutical company for having gotten me on that drug. I'm guessing that's s.o.p.

Pharmaceuticals, that's a whole new topic. But, my wife has been in medical billing for a long time. Doctors have a lot of expenses, malpractice insurance for example, and they deserve to get paid well for all they've done to get where they are and considering the risks of the profession, the hours they put in, etc. Medicare doesn't pay what they're worth.

Hello again,

So, whaddya know about that? Any Republican who ties his future to the Ryan plan will most likely go down in flames...

excon

Maybe ,but I see this as a repeat of NY 23 special election 2009 .
That was also a Republican seat that went Dem . The only difference was in that race the Republicans picked a RINO who eventually withdrew and gave her support to the Dem Owens. She still managed to pick off enough Republican votes to swing it in Owens favor.

Yesterday Davis got almost 10 % of the vote . But the voters who threw their support to him are Republicans who want to construct all types of trade barriers ,or got fooled by the phony tea party banner he ran under.

Back in 2009 the national press jumped on that Republican reversal and was quick to point out that demonstrated the national mood ,and that the Republican's goose was cooked in 2010.
How'd that work out ?

If you can find a similar 3 way race in 2012 ,be my guest to apply any lesson learned from this contest. What this should be is an eye opener to the TP. They should make sure they control the party label and not let it get hijacked by a trojan horse. They should also consider a similar strategery by running a phony on the Greens or Peace party or something similar.

There is also another lesson here. Jane Corwin is a NY establishment Republican. It may very well be the weakest Republican party nationwide. They had a chance to nominate conservative Iraq war vet David Bellavia .I believe he would've been the stronger candidate. To paraphrase the President... nominating her was 'bringing a knife to a gun fight'.

The national GOP was just as lame. Johnny Bonehead got interested in the race far too late and let the fake TP dude and the Dems outspend the GOP . Perhaps he thought the district insignificant .He's wrong .Now going into 2012 Hochul will be the incumbent . It will be her seat to lose.

As for Medicare. The Republicans do need to fine tune the message and the need for their reform ,and to effectively counter Democrat Mediscare tactics. Perhaps the American people aren't ready to tinker with the nanny state. Eventually they will have no choice. We may need to be dragged kicking and screaming like the Greeks. Ryan is trying to avoid that economic hair cut .

Ryan is trying to avoid that economic hair cut .Hello again, tom:

IF the public believed that, then this race would have turned out differently... We've discussed this before, but, according to the Republicans, the last election was about jobs, jobs, jobs.. Then as soon as they had a chance, they slammed their social programs down our throats. THAT didn't go unnoticed...

IF the public believed the Ryan plan was TRULY about the deficit, then EVERYTHING would have been on the table... Instead, it looked like they were pursuing an agenda instead of a balanced budget. REFUSING to tax the rich didn't go unnoticed.

You say the nation isn't ready to give up the nanny state... If the Republican fix is to DISMANTLE the nanny state, I agree. But, if the fix is SHARED sacrifice, who knows? Nobody ASKED that question yet.

excon

Let's see the Dems propose tax reforms that are based on shared sacrifice and we'll see. But that isn't what they want . They want to fleece the people who already pay the most Federal taxes at a time when they know tax increases are counter productive if your goal is jobs jobs jobs.

Hello again,

Just watched Paul Ryan on Morning Joe. He sounds like the Democrats who were saying that when the public actually LEARNS what's IN the HEALTH CARE bill, they'll love it...

Ryan STILL believes, in the face of the defeat last night, that when the public actually LEARNS what's IN his bill, they'll love it...

Guess what?

excon

They want to fleece the people who already pay the most Federal taxes at a time when they know tax increases are counter productive if your goal is jobs jobs jobs.Hello again, tom:

No, they don't know it... Wall Street just enjoyed their BEST year in a LONG time. They had the present Bush tax rate for the last 8 years, and didn't produce any new jobs.. In fact, the OPPOSITE happened...

You SAY I want to fleece the rich... I SAY you want to throw granny off the cliff. There's a deal somewhere in the middle that'll save us. That is if any politician has the balls to do it.

excon

They had the present Bush tax rate for the last 8 years, and didn't produce any new jobs.. In fact, the OPPOSITE happened...

Hard to say that when American business pays the highest rate in the industrial world .
Tax the evil rich... the evil rich with their mobile money go elsewhere.

The Dems used all hands on deck to eeek this one out . Let's see that effort duplicated around the country next year. They are going to need every penny of the President's $billion in campaign funds.

Compromise... hummm just saw the gang of 6 breakup and reunite for another go of it. No one expects anything from them. The Biden (watching expenses like a hawk) group takes turns waking him up... haven't heard anything constructive from them . The last compromise I saw the Dems do was that dead of the night game played to pass Obamacare... adding to our already unsustainable entitlements.

I SAY you wanna throw granny off the cliff. There's a deal somewhere in the middle that'll save us. That is if any politician has the balls to do it.

Obama is already throwing granny off the cliff with his Medicare cuts and unaccountable health boards.

Obama is already throwing granny off the cliff with his Medicare cuts and unaccountable health boards.Hello Steve:

Well, I see you're in no mood to make a deal..

excon

Hello Steve:

Well, I see you're in no mood to make a deal.

What, looking for an MVP to rescue your middling team?

The season is still young yet, and hot bats cool off sooner or later.

And Ryan's plan is just a back door effort to repeal Obamacare, and let Insurance companies get back control over who lives, and who doesn't. Funny how the cuts to Medicare were directed at administrative costs for Medicare advantage and not in services for seniors.

He may call it premium support, but it shifts financial burden from government to seniors. A smoke screen for not making jobs, or putting everything on the table for budget considerations.

Gee Steve, he is talking about your future finances, not mine. You better count your money now, or suffer later. Granny won't be the only one going over the cliff, you will be next.

Oh my, Bill Clinton and Paul Ryan on the same page about Medicare?

Bill Clinton to Paul Ryan on Medicare Election: ‘Give me a Call’ (http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/05/bill-clinton-to-paul-ryan-on-medicare-election-give-me-a-call-.html)


The day after the stunning upset in the special congressional election in upstate New York, Rep. Paul Ryan is a man under fire.

But ABC News was behind the scenes with the Wisconsin Congressman and GOP Budget Committee Chairman when he got some words of encouragement none other than former President Bill Clinton.

"So anyway, I told them before you got here, I said I’m glad we won this race in New York," Clinton told Ryan, when the two met backstage at a forum on the national debt held by the Pete Peterson Foundation. But he added, “I hope Democrats don't use this as an excuse to do nothing.”

Ryan told Clinton he fears that now nothing will get done in Washington.

“My guess is it’s going to sink into paralysis is what’s going to happen. And you know the math. It’s just, I mean, we knew we were putting ourselves out there. You gotta start this. You gotta get out there. You gotta get this thing moving,” Ryan said.

Clinton told Ryan that if he ever wanted to talk about it, he should “give me a call.” Ryan said he would. Watch it here.

Bill Clinton: We’ve Got to Deal with Medicare (http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/05/bill-clinton-to-paul-ryan-on-medicare-election-give-me-a-call-.html)


Former President Bill Clinton, still widely considered one of his party’s foremost politicians, said on Wednesday that Democrats should cut a “reasonable” deal with Republicans on Medicare savings rather than conclude from Tuesday’s upset in a special Congressional election that bashing Republicans on the issue is the key to a party comeback in 2012.

Mr. Clinton’s message, while more politically pointed, followed similar comments on Wednesday morning from Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner as both responded to a Democrat’s victory in a conservative district in upstate New York. The race turned on House Republicans’ budget plan to replace Medicare with a voucher system and dramatically reduce future federal health-care spending.

“You shouldn’t draw the conclusion that the New York race means that nobody can do anything to slow the rate of Medicare costs. I just don’t agree with that,” Mr. Clinton said at a budget forum sponsored by the Peter G. Peterson Foundation. Instead, he said, “you should draw the conclusion that the people made a judgment that the proposal in the Republican budget is not the right one. I agree with that.”

But Mr. Clinton said he feared that Democrats would conclude “that we shouldn’t do anything.”

“I completely disagree with that,” he said. “I think there are a lot of things we can do to bring down Medicare costs.”

The Dems won't care, they've already bought into Mediscare as the campaign tactic of choice.

It was an issue last election cycle when Obama said lets do something, and the Republicans sat on there asses, and made it an issue with lies, and rhetoric about killing grandma. Now they turn around, and beyatch about the same thing being done to them. What's good for the goose..!

The repubs refused to vote, but Obama care is half Republican amendments. Still they cry foul!! That's what compromise is about good ideas from both sides, but they made it an issue because an election was coming up, and power was all they cared about, not policy.

We have a law, lets work with it, make it work for every body. Conservatives need to stop acting like Rush Limbaugh, and get with the program. Why do the righties hate America so much??

I'm sorry for your loss in NY. The voters have spoken.

No loss, a step closer to single payer, and Universal Medicare for every U.S. citizen.

Obama care is half Republican amendments
Not even close ,and the amendments are periferal . Clintoon's point is sound. The Dem talking point about saving Medicare "as we know it " is a mute point . It fundamentally changes under Obamacare with government command and control ;or it changes with market based programs ;or a combination of both . That is the debate going forward .

We have a law, lets work with it, make it work for every body. Conservatives need to stop acting like Rush Limbaugh, and get with ethe program. Why do the righties hate America so much????

Dude, Republicans were virtually locked out of any discussions. That's not compromise.

Speaking of the budget, Senate Democrats (who see no reason to even propose a budget (http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/05/dems-breathtaking-refusal-pass-budget)) didn't take Obama's budget seriously. It went down 0-97 (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/163345-obama-budget-receives-zero-votes-in-senate-).

Interesting vote also on the Ryan budget plan. As expected there were 4 RINO's who voted with the Dems... and Rand Paul who thinks the cuts should be greater .
I can see already that Paul will be the Senate version of his old man... a gadfly.

As expected there were 4 RINO's who voted with the Dems....Hello again, tom:

Or, they could just be people who want to keep their jobs.

What is SOOOO funny here, is you don't realize just how much you sound like the Democrats did about the health care bill. They kept saying that once people really UNDERSTAND the bill, they'll like it... Now, you're taking up that mantra...

excon

Or, they could just be people who want to keep their jobs.

Brown ,Snowe, Collins ,Murkowski Their votes are predicatable . They may as well change party now and end the charade.

Hard to say that when American business pays the highest rate in the industrial world .
Tax the evil rich ....the evil rich with their mobile money go elsewhere. That's repeated a ,ot by the right but it's not the case:
Corporate Taxes | 1955 vs. 2010 [PIC] - Digg (http://digg.com/news/politics/corporate_taxes_1955_vs_2010_pic)

That's repeated a ,ot by the right but it's not the case:
Corporate Taxes | 1955 vs. 2010 [PIC] - Digg (http://digg.com/news/politics/corporate_taxes_1955_vs_2010_pic)

Where in your link does it show US corporate tax rates? It doesn't.

Who's talking taxes against GDP ?
Here is one that has not been revised since Japan lowered their corporate tax rates

Corporate Tax Rates By Country - Worldwide Tax Rates | Contrarian Musings (http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/2009/01/29/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-oecd/)

The Tax Foundation - U.S. Corporate Taxes Now 50 Percent Higher than OECD Average (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/23470.html)

How can the tax rate stay the same but contribute less and less to the total revenue?

Clearly there are other sources of revenue besides corporate rates as your chart indicates.

Such as?

Your country gets it
Corporate Income Tax Rates | Canada Business Tax | Canadian Business & Corporate Tax Rates (http://www.canadabusinesstax.com/corporate-income-tax-rates/)

Hello again,

Taxes, schmaxes...

It's a red herring. The political strategy of the right wing is to starve the beast... They HATE social programs, but realize that attacking them directly isn't very popular... So, they figured out that if there's no MONEY, the HATED social programs will die on the vine...

Or so, that's the idea. They thought that when they showed the country that the money is gone, the country would cave. They didn't. Turns out, we LIKE taking care of the old people - ESPECIALLY when most of us PLAN on getting old - and about HALF of us are Republicans.

Back to the schmaxes.. I mean taxes... Having been a successful tax planner, I can tell you that the published corporate tax rate is a sham.. NOBODY pays that rate. In fact, it's SOOO rife with loopholes (deductions) that they pay as much, or as LITTLE as they want to, just like General Electric did.

In MY view, the reason corporations are moving off shore is NOT because of taxes... It's because OTHER countries workers happen to be better educated than our own. In fact, it's the RIGHT WING who is attacking public education, and has been for 30 years... The result is we have a STUPID workforce. This is what happens when you let Republicans run the show - CHAOS!

excon

Such as?

Uh, income tax, licensing fees, regulatory fees, penalties and fines, sales tax...

The political strategy of the right wing is to starve the beast...
And the political strategery of the left is to ever expand government "entitlements"
To create a growing constituency dependent on the entitlements and the party .
That house of cards is crashing down and their answer is to pretend it isn't happening .

I think its pretty clear that a lot of changes must be made. Compromises on both parts.

I think its pretty clear that a lot of changes must be made. Compromises on both parts.

Perhaps they should adopt the plan proposed by Democrat Sen. John Breaux (D-LA) in the late 1990s that came within one vote of a super-majority vote of getting out of the House Ways and Means Committee . The Breaux plan that he proposed from his 'National Bipartisan Commission on the Future of Medicare' would have transformed Medicare into a premium support system, where instead of Medicare directly covering beneficiaries or underwriting their participation in HMOs, beneficiaries would be given a fixed amount of money to purchase private health insurance. Seniors would be able to pick from a list of insurance plans, while getting federal subsidies to help pay for them. Back then there were at least some Democrat greats that get it including Bob Kerrey of Nebraska , Pat Moynihan of New York , and Chuck Robb of Virginia. Ironically the vote turned on the issue of adding prescription drugs for Medicare beneficiaries . Ironic because in the last decade the only meaningful reform of Medicare has been related to prescription drugs (Part D)and senior's choice (Medicare Advantage plans ).

As a side note ;Breaux's Medicare Commission staff director at the time was now Republican Governor La. Bobby Jindal.

I think its pretty clear that a lot of changes must be made. Compromises on both parts.Hello tal:

Tom agrees. We should compromise between ONE plan that kills Medicare, or ANOTHER plan that kills Medicare... He does NOT get that compromise means raising taxes...

excon

Taxes, schmaxes

Medicare is not funded by taxes.. remember ? It's like Social Security... put in a lock box... right ? There should be no funding issues if there wasn't theft from the plan... right ?
The solution to a failing ponzi scheme is to add more cash to it I guess.

.....put in a lock box ...right ? There should be no funding issues if there wasn't theft from the plan ... right ?

The solution to a failing ponzi scheme is to add more cash to it I guess.Hello again, tom:

Couple things... You brought up another issue... I agree wholeheartedly that STEALING from plan will cause it to go bankrupt... That's different than the plan being a ponzi scheme. If it's a ponzi scheme, then so is your local fire department. The difference is, your community FUNDS your fire department.

So,as long as we mis-characterize the very programs we're talking about here, there won't be any solutions. The ONLY solution, and the one that's worked for the last 50 years or so, is to IMPOSE it upon an unwilling right wing, because you'll NEVER get, and NEVER have gotten the right wing to agree. To them, it IS a ponzi scheme.

So, SCREW 'em. Get POWER and MAKE it so. Isn't that the way YOU guys operate? Isn't that what you'll do, IF you get power? You betcha that's what you'll do. I'm watching your governors do it right now.

Medicare works and the people want it - by a BIG majority!

excon

Truth is that there never was a trust fund and everyone knew it. Yeah everyone loves ripping off the youth of America to pay for the elderly . The fact is that there were 6 workers for every retiree when Medicare pyramid was concocted . Now it's below 4 workers even before the bulk of the Baby Boomers retire. There is no generation that large replacing them .
The math is indesputable.. $80 trillion in Medicare liabilities for a US economy is only $15 trillion. Madoff was a piker compared to that.

Hello again, tom:

As we've discussed on another thread, there IS a solution.. It's really a matter of whether we want to make the hard choices... I think it will come down to deciding whether we want to be an empire or a country that takes care of its own.

If we agree at all, we agree that we can't be BOTH.

excon

Ripping off the youth to pay for elders?? Its not a rip off, the youth are supposed to take care of their elders!! That's my mama you are talking about, and she worked damn hard for me to get where I am. Of course, when she needs me most I am only to glad for her to rip me off!!

When you reduce things down to negative rhetoric, to justify just plain mean cruelty and hatred, of course you scare the hell out of the weakest and most vulnerable like Rush Limbaugh, or one of those socalled consevative idiots, who makes a living scaring people. A very good living.

Yeah raise their taxes, back to the 1950's and see where this BS deficet goes. Get the money the greedy bankers STOLE and refuse to circulate, and invest, and see where the BS deficet goes. And while you are at it, tell Eric Cantor to off set emergency money when a disaster hits his neighborhood!

Now get some single payer Medicare for everyone, and tell the insurance companies to go to hell. Why do conservatives hate old people, poor people, homeless people, unemployed people, and every other people except the gardner, and rich people?

Sorry Tom, but ex is right, get rid of the uncompromising, hateful, scared conservatives so the rest of the country can compromise on things that help everybody, and not just a few.

Indeed it is ripping off the youth . The workers today are paying for their own health care and that of their children and for the MANY retirees who are living in Florida or Arizona luxury retirement communities ;playing golf and shuffle board ,and trading their car in annually .They could easily provide for their own or heavily contribute to their own plans.In fact many of them are double dipping from pension income and government assistance.
That is why the Ryan plan is weighted heavily in favor of the seniors who really need it .

Tell me before you get all sanctimonious ;Which generation has the greatest amt of disposable money ;the most disposable income with the greatest buying power ? The elders or the young worker ? Here's an inconvenient truth for you . The government spends around $6 on seniors for every dollar it spends on children ,however, the poverty rate among children is much higher.

If you get your wish of a single payer system of course then that will likely shift as the death panel throws momma over the cliff.

the workers today are paying for their own health care and that of their children and for the MANY retirees who are living in Florida or Arizona luxury retirement communities ;playing golf and shuffle board ,and trading their car in annually Hello again, tom:

Well, there you go... That's the problem. See, you think MOST seniors live like that. If they did, I'd be against Medicare too. But, they don't. It ain't even close. The truth is that MOST seniors scrape by on their Social Security checks, and that's all...

Actually, tom... I'm sure the numbers are available to you, if you care to look.. You're a smart guy.. You don't really believe that MOST seniors are living the good life.. If you do, I'm going to reassess.

excon

Social Security is main source of income for seniors | Public Agenda (http://www.publicagenda.org/charts/social-security-main-source-income-seniors)

http://news.change.org/stories/seniors-receive-40-of-their-income-from-social-security

Now I understand your views better Tom, you have been misinformed and scared by Fake News and his employees for much to long. Your view would be different if most of the seniors you knew invested in pill cutters, and only gassed up their 10 year old Chevy once a month to go to the grocery store, until they got that next social security check. And they take 100 bucks for social security out of it.

Stop listening to rich fat guys tell you the sky is falling to keep their ratings up. Talk to some ordinary people like me, who are happy to see another day, and look at reruns of Law & Order, and play fantasy sports.

I know, I don't create jobs or anything else for that matter but gas, but I don't steal trillions and tell people how I need more either. Damn those rich old people and their luxury lifestyle.

Just curious how much you contributed to Palins new mansion in Arizona? Me, I'm saving for a pill cutter.

In fact many of them are double dipping from pension income and government assistance.
I've worked hard to make a living. Money was taken from my paycheck to support the "older generation".

Now it's my turn. S.S. is a return on the payments I've made over the years into the Social Security system through payroll taxes. S.S. is MY money that I'm getting back, not government assistance.

How dare you think of taking that poor unemployed young guys money, and spending it on golf fees in Arizona, or Florida. HAH, and you have the nerve to think its YOUR money.

You want fun, wait until the 54 year old who has been paying into the system for 40 years, find out the young guy stop giving and he is on his own, when he gets 62.

You want fun, wait until the 54 year old who has been paying into the system for 40 years, find out the young guy stop giving and he is on his own, when he gets 62.
Yeah, I wondered about that. Maybe he will get his contribution back in a lump sum. :D

I wouldn't want to be around when he takes his "lumps"

See, you think MOST seniors live like that.

That isn't what I wrote... this is what I wrote :

and for the MANY retirees who are living in Florida or Arizona luxury retirement communities ;playing golf and shuffle board ,and trading their car in annually
Try addressing what I actually wrote .
That is why the Ryan plan is weighted heavily in favor of the seniors who really need it .

WG ,the links you provide shows SS as 36-40% of seniors income and 60-64% from other sources . Thanks for confirming my contention that SS is for many seniors not the sole source of income. All you have to do is go to the marketing sites and look up senior's disposable income to see that there is a major effort underway to tap into that market.


I've worked hard to make a living. Money was taken from my paycheck to support the "older generation".

Now it's my turn. S.S. is a return on the payments I've made over the years into the Social Security system through payroll taxes. S.S. is MY money that I'm getting back, not government assistance.


You want fun, wait until the 54 year old who has been paying into the system for 40 years, find out the young guy stop giving and he is on his own, when he gets 62.

I never called it "government assistance" . I've heard the same thing from most seniors I've discussed this with .No matter their means it's "their money " ,they are "entitled "... Madoff's victims said the same thing when it was their turn.

The Ryan plan recognizes that reality and doesn't change a thing. All it does is shift the method of payments to the younger workers when they retire. They will still be contributing into the system . No one said that the younger worker will stop paying into Medicare.

I contend that your Medicare check is more threatened by the Obamacare "savings " he touts. Obamacare slashes $ half trillion in Medicare provider payments over the next 10 years, and imposes a hard cap on future Medicare spending.This results in a 30 percent cut in doctors' pay next year.
Doctors are fleeing the system in droves because they won't get fair compensation for their work.

But you see the trap ? Once they started the ponzi scheme "it's my money" was going to be the argument used to keep the system going no matter how flawed it was at the outset. There is NO WAY it is a sustainable system as is ;or in the model proposed by the Dems to tax their way out of it. Once you say that anyone should be taxed to pay for your entitlement then it does indeed become "public assistance ".

WG ,the links you provide shows SS as 36-40% of seniors income and 60-64% from other sources . Thanks for confirming my contention that SS is for many seniors not the sole source of income. Hello again, tom:

Huh??

You STILL appear to be saying that since seniors have OTHER sources of income, besides SS, they are BETTER off than what I indicated...

In fact, the opposite is true... I don't know if you noticed on the chart, but 30% of the "other sources" is EARNINGS..

So, I DID mis-speak, after all.. I said that for MOST seniors, Social Security was their only source of income... I was wrong. For 30% of 'em, it AIN'T enough! They have to keep on working... When you add that 30% to the 40% who are too sick or old to work, you've got 70% of seniors who eek out an existence on Social Security, or have to supplement it at McDonalds.

excon

The poverty rate of people older than 65 is less than the general population and by a significant difference compared to children under 18 .
And yes ,much of that difference is from Social Security payments.
That just reinforces my point that the burden is on the next generation at a time they can least afford it. That is how the scheme works . It was ONLY sustainable when there was a larger percentage of people contributing into the plan than was getting payouts (6-1). That equation has been in decline and will shrink to an unsustainable level real soon. You know that and I know that.

That equation has been in decline and will shrink to an unsustainable level real soon. You know that and I know that.Hello again, tom:

We don't disagree about the problem. We disagree about the solution.

excon

Well I'll say now how the pols of both parties will solve it.

They will say Seniors are living too long so benefits should start later . They will say that it should be means tested which will destroy the fundamental contract of both SS and Medicare.

I say the system needs to fundamentally change. That lump sum payout sounded good to me ,but most wouldn't go along with it . For some reason people think government is a good money manager. I don't understand where they get that notion. The track record proves the opposite. So be it . If I was a voter in the 1960s I would never had agreed that the plan was a good idea. But we are stuck for now with some form of government control over seniors money and health .
Ryan propose a choice . It seems to be working with Part D . Why not for the rest ?
I heard TPAW this week improve on Ryan's plan by saying he would allow seniors who prefer to remain in the existing plan.
Like you said... there is room for compromise.

I don't think government should run as a business, it should be effective in protecting its people and making a fair place to pursue happiness.

We can compromise on the how, as long as everybody is in it and gets the same thing out of it. Means testing sounds good, but until we actually do live longer changing the ages on SS, and Medicare is not a great idea, nor is allowing greedy for profit insurance companies the access of millions of seniors and their loot.

Obamacare has already addressed Medicare advantage, and part D, both lousy expensive ideas, and my mom has said she will kick the arse of any youngster that will cost her money she doesn't have because she made her choice so back the freak off. She is out now looking for this Ryan guy, and promised to protect me to while she protects herself.

That was what the vote in NY district 26 was about. Say what you will about what happens later, but you better get a better idea, because no one is buying this one. That's the bottom line.

WG ,the links you provide shows SS as 36-40% of seniors income and 60-64% from other sources .
The other big source is work. Seniors I know continue to work into their 70s and even 80s to make ends meet. SS just isn't enough, especially in today's economy.

I never called it "government assistance" .
Yeah, you did --

Indeed it is ripping off the youth . The workers today are paying for their own health care and that of their children and for the MANY retirees who are living in Florida or Arizona luxury retirement communities ;playing golf and shuffle board ,and trading their car in annually .They could easily provide for their own or heavily contribute to their own plans.In fact many of them are double dipping from pension income and government assistance.

The other big source is work. Seniors I know continue to work into their 70s and even 80s to make ends meet. SS just isn't enough, especially in today's economy.

And many seniors work because they chose to . No one is yet addressing the disposable income fact. It is no mistake that marketers are targeting that customer base and I've already given the poverty rate for seniors compared to the general population.


We can compromise on the how, as long as everybody is in it and gets the same thing out of it.
I'd like to see the government program that runs that way.

means testing sounds good, but until we actually do live longer changing the ages on SS, and Medicare is not a great idea
The actuarial tables don't lie. We are certainly already living far longer than SS was designed for ,and the same is true for Medicare.

Obamacare has already addressed Medicare advantage, and part D, both lousy expensive ideas, Yeah that's part of the massive cuts in Medicare benefits that the Obots put through. Yet I hear no seniors complaining that Medicare is being "changed as we know it ". How could that be ? Maybe the greedy company that has seniors suckered ,AARP ,is in the game for the big bucks .


Say what you will about what happens later, but you better get a better idea, because no one is buying this one. That's the bottom line.
More third rail nonsense. Yes I know the Ryan plan will be removed from the budget because the budget was voted down in the Senate and Schuck Schumer demagogued the issue. Mark my words , unless real reform happens in the next decade then there will be an IMF or a China imposing fiscal responsibility on the country . We are closer to where Greece and Spain are now than we'd like to believe.

And many seniors work because they chose to .
None I know choose to. I'd like to see stats on that.

I know lots of retirees that choose to work.

New DNC bulldog Debbie Wasserman-Schultz jumped onto the Mediscare bandwagon (http://hotair.com/archives/2011/06/01/wapo-factcheck-agree-wasserman-schultz-threw-truth-to-the-wolves/). On Face the Nation Sunday she said the GOP was going to going to throw young people "to the wolves."


“[Republicans] would take the people who are younger than 55 years old today and tell them, ‘You know what? You’re on your own. Go and find private health insurance in the health care insurance market. We’re going to throw you to the wolves, and allow insurance companies to deny you coverage and drop you for pre-existing conditions,’ ” Wasserman-Schultz told CBS’ Harry Smith. ” ‘We’re going to give you X amount of dollars and you figure it out.’

Only problem is, 3 fact checkers caller disagreed.

FactCheck said she Throws Truth to ‘Wolves’, (http://www.factcheck.org/2011/05/dnc-chair-throws-truth-to-wolves/) WaPo gave her three Pinocchios (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/wasserman-schultzs-bogus-claim-that-the-gop-medicare-plan-will-throw-you-to-the-wolves/2011/05/31/AG8y9lFH_blog.html) for her lie, and Cato (who the DNC said corroborated her claim) called her argument “high-octane idiocy.”

Maybe she shouldn't have jumped onto that bandwagon head first.

Health plans that choose to participate in the Medicare exchange must agree to offer insurance to all Medicare beneficiaries, to avoid cherry-picking and ensure that Medicare’s sickest and highest-cost beneficiaries receive coverage.

Blows a hole in the whole argument being used here about insurance companies not insuring these Medicare patients. If they are part of the exchange they'd have no choice but to cover the patient .

By the way . Republican NY Congressman Chris Lee resigned within hours of being caught posing shirtless on Craigslist . Why hasn't Democrat NY Congressman Anthony Weiner done the same after getting caught Weiner posing on Twitter ?

btw . Republican NY Congressman Chris Lee resigned within hours of being caught posing shirtless on Craigslist .Actually it more due to his being married with children and trolling for women on Craigslist.

Weiner's married too . He married some aid to Evita .

Who's Evita?

Anyway, you said he was posing shirtless on Craigslist which was a nice try to deflect that we were looking for sexual contacts outside of marriage.

Why do you think Weiner posted his crotch shot ?

I don't know but I didn't try to hide the true story like you tried to with the republican.

Path to Prosperity: Health plans that choose to participate in the Medicare exchange must agree to offer insurance to all Medicare beneficiaries, to avoid cherry-picking and ensure that Medicare’s sickest and highest-cost beneficiaries receive coverage.

"It's fair game to debate whether the subsidies are adequate to cover insurance costs. But it's wrong to say that the GOP plan would "throw you to the wolves and allow insurance companies to deny you coverage."

This was from the same link you sited, and while the Dems did stretch the facts in their favor, Annenburgh does acknowledge the problem with the size of the subsidy to seniors in the future, so to me, throwing you to the wolves may yet be accurate.

As to shifting more of the cost to future seniors, we could talk if you include the tax dollars to the rich and corporations could be discussed, and make to mistake, Thats YOU Steve, not me. Obamacare is about the same exchanges, and does bring future cost under better control for YOU future, and present seniors, without the tax cuts for the rich and job creators who by the way have historically not used those cuts and loopholes that they have received to create jobs, the exact opposite is true, and you don't have to believe me, just read a history book, and see what always has happened after repub presidents have used "trickle down economics" or "supply side economics", and its interesting how you righties want to throw all the social network gains out and bring back more failed policies, instead of building on a structure that's already in place.

But I guess you will have to be one of the unemployed, and your benefits have run out to see what the republican plan is all about. You are in Texas as I am, so you already know how your Governor has balanced his budget, and how he will have to balance it some more, and that my friend puts all our kids out in the cold, as far as education and health care are concerned.

Gov. Rick Perry's Symbolic Cuts and His Real Ones — 2011 Budget Shortfall | The Texas Tribune (http://www.texastribune.org/texas-taxes/2011-budget-shortfall/gov-rick-perrys-symbolic-cuts-and-his-real-ones/)


Perry didnt’t talk about what it might mean to cut almost $10 billion from public education with 80,000 new students joining that system every year. He didnt’t talk about how cuts of 10 percent or more in what the state pays Medicaid providers — doctors and hospitals and such — might shake out. He talked about closing a rural affairs office that most people haven’t heard of and of cutting frills like archaeological projects and arts festivals.

Why do republicans balance their budgets on people, and not corporations? Not rich people mind you, but people like you and me, and our kids. I don't get it, why anybody who isn't rich, is a republican.

Why do you think Weiner posted his crotch shot ?

He didn't post it, but that's what Brietbart claims. He has never told the truth, nor stated FACTS, never ever.

Hello:

Jewish women don't marry Jewish men for the size of their wieners. They marry them for the size of their bank accounts... Ain't no way, that was Wieners wiener.

excon

He didn't post it, but that's what Brietbart claims. He has never told the truth, nor stated FACTS, never ever.

I don't think Breitbart broke this. Besides, the Weiner can't say it wasn't his weiner (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/06/01/weiner_i_cant_say_with_certitude_that_picture_isnt _of_me.html).


NBC's LUKE RUSSERT: "That's not a picture of you?"

REP. ANTHONY WEINER: "You know, I can't say with certitude. My system was hacked. Pictures can be manipulated, pictures can be dropped in and inserted."

Should be pretty easy to say with certitude if t wasn't him. I think I'd know if there were any pics of me in my drawers running around ANYWHERE (there aren't).

just read a history book, and see what always has happened after repub presidents have used "trickle down economics" or "supply side economics",

You mean like when Jack Kennedy did it ? All it did was bring an instant economic bounce... just like in the 1980s and throughout most of the last decade. Kennedy deeply cut those 1950s rates you are so enamoured with . As a result ,a 106 month economic expansion began . Tax revenues grew by 65% from 1965 to 1970. Why ? Because yes ,tax revenues do increase when marginal rates are reduced according to the Laffer formula.

NBC's LUKE RUSSERT: "That's not a picture of you?"

REP. ANTHONY WEINER: "You know, I can't say with certitude. My system was hacked. Pictures can be manipulated, pictures can be dropped in and inserted."
Heeeheeeheeee... he said his weiner was inserted...

Hello:

Jewish women don't marry Jewish men for the size of their wieners. They marry them for the size of their bank accounts... Ain't no way, that was Wieners wiener.

excon
I hear his wife is going to file a case in small claims court.

Truthers and birthers and weiners oh my ! Politico is asking why he doesn't report the hacking to the authorities . Answer... because that would be a false report that could get him in trouble with the law. That is why he has been deflecting questions from the press.

I wonder if he's going to retain Spitzer as an attorney ? Maybe he'll seek some advice from Bubba.

I don't know but I didn't try to hide the true story like you tried to with the republican.

From the op.


But it became vacant after incumbent Chris Lee decided he couldn't keep his shirt on (and probably his pants. He got caught responding to a personal ad from a woman on Craigslist . When she saw he was a married Congressman she submitted the evidence to Gawker. Lee quickly resigned .

From the op.What "op"?

Here's your original post on this thead: Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - NY 26th Budget cuts v Mediscare v Trojan Tea Party Candidate (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/2814330-post83.html)

by the way . Republican NY Congressman Chris Lee resigned within hours of being caught posing shirtless on Craigslist . Why hasn't Democrat NY Congressman Anthony Weiner done the same after getting caught Weiner posing on Twitter ?No source, nothing, it's what you chose to say. Quit ****ing around.

you mean like when Jack Kennedy did it ? All it did was bring an instant economic bounce ...just like in the 1980s and throughout most of the last decade. Kennedy deeply cut those 1950s rates you are so enamoured with . As a result ,a 106 month economic expansion began . Tax revenues grew by 65% from 1965 to 1970. Why ? Because yes ,tax revenues do increase when marginal rates are reduced according to the Laffer formula.

Very familiar with Laffer's formula, (trickle down economics) but the downside of it was/is that it created an economic bubble that always collapses on itself, and always has lead to high unemployment, high prices, higher taxes, high interest rates and inflation. In layman's terms, a recession, or worse depression. This has happened every time its been done, even with Kennedy.

The point being that its government that bails out the economy until money can circulate on its own, and that's what we have today. Government stepped in and bailed out business, who used the tax breaks for some pretty stupid things, and slowed the free fall that business created. Now the dumb repubs, have again stepped in to stop stimulus, a function of government to restore the economy, and again are colluding with business, to shut off CIRCULATION of the money the economy needs to grow, and sustain, and invest.

In short, its not the common man that screws things up, but businesses that freak out with too much money. Not government spending like you repubs are fond of whining about, but rich guys with tax cuts, that over leverage themselves with schemes to get even more of the moolah.

Now I could go along with tax cuts, if rich guys wouldn't mind sharing the wealth a bit, and not gobble every dollar they get there greedy hands on until they screw up again. Then they cry "i need more".

Time for them to share the sacrifice by helping pay the bills. That's what a dad does when his grown kids screw up, and wrecks the family car don't they? Or do you just increase their allowance, fix the car, and give 'em back the keys.

The Reagan Laffer "bubble " lasted 15 years . Seems like the recessions that follow are part of the normal economic cycle ,and Keynesian pumping worsens the economy ,extending the recession and weakens the eventual recovery. A decade of Keynesian solutions in the 1970s led to double digit inflation,unemployment ,and run away interest rates before the Reagan Presidency .

Nice try Tom, But Reagan's bubble was busted when he left office, and screwed his predecessor royally. "Read my lips." right after he bailed out Jeb, and the junk bond stunt. At the time, Reagan left office with a deficit as I remember it, and the economy was built on McDonald's expanding and Walmart cutting deals, and building stores. Big business was already moving south to Mexico, and then overseas.

I like the way you repubs call returning to previous tax rates and tax hike, whine about being demagogued, right before you demagogued the president for the millionth time in two and a half years, and say what the people want when you ignore that every freaking body, even republicans are against what repubs want to do to Medicare.

You better get those conservatives into the new century fast because it moves along with or without them.

Personally, I rather burn all the money and toast marshmallows with it, and just take care of business like the ants do. They don't get paid, or worry about taxes or foreclosures or Medicare. They don't have elections recessions, or depressions(?) Wonder why a little bitty ant can figure it out, and people can't? Ever wonder why that is Tom?

Personally, I rather burn all the money and toast marshmallows with it, and just take care of business like the ants do. They don't get paid, or worry about taxes or foreclosures or Medicare. They don't have elections recessions, or depressions(?) Wonder why a little bitty ant can figure it out, and people can't? Ever wonder why that is Tom?

Yeah I know.. they live in a collective .

But that narrative doesn't really hold up does it ? They are the tools of the queen .They live and die for the queen .They are slave to the queen . So they aren't really working for the colony perse... They do the bidding of the queen... but then again ,such autocracy or absolute rule is the model that the communist nations have emulated also.
Ants also have a rigid caste system . The ant carrying that boulder has no choice but to do the job the ant was born to do .

Are you telling me that is the system you would prefer ?


BTW ,if there are 2 competing ant hills ,how do they resolve their difference?

Always the reference to a socialist point of view, what you have the ability to do is to respond according to your society norms, very primitave but there you have it

I'm not the one who brought up the ant colony model .

.. they live in a collective .
As do we humans, just not as organized
But that narrative doesn't really hold up does it ? They are the tools of the queen .They live and die for the queen .They are slave to the queen . So they aren't really working for the colony parse... They do the bidding of the queen...
They live for survival, they do not do the queens bidding because she gives no orders. They already know what to do and have defined roles that they perform for the good of the collective. For their own good, their survival. They are very efficient, and no one goes hungry
But then again ,such autocracy or absolute rule is the model that the communist nations have emulated also.
There is no rule, just an orderly way to survive.
Ants also have a rigid caste system . The ant carrying that boulder has no choice but to do the job the ant was born to do
They do not argue, revolt, or ask for a raise. They all share the same rewards, from the same sacrifice. From the same effort. Its there way. And they have it down pat.

Are you telling me that is the system you would prefer ?
Efficient, effective, equal, simple, and defined. the goal, to survive and thrive.

BTW ,if there are 2 competing ant hills ,how do they resolve their difference?
The strong survive, the loser is enslaved, or eaten. Just like us humans.

My point though Tom, is that humans have agendas that don't jibe with the whole "collective" surviving, and thriving. Though we have many social models to examine, all of which have merit, be they communism, or democracy, they few reap artificial financial benefit, and the many provide those benefits, and the few manipulate those benefits, and the many suffer for it with less.

There is no difference between communism, and democracy, or America, and Africa. They all share the same self promotion when co operation is required. Until we are like the ant, and cooperate, then the collective cannot survive. As the collective (the world), grows closer together, there has to be even more cooperation, not less.

I think America is a unique opportunity to show the world how a collective of diverse societies can thrive and survive through mutual cooperation, shared sacrifice, and shared reward for the common good. It won't happen sacrificing the many, for the few, but through very honest communications, to move everyone forward.

Fighting over whose hill is the best, Laffer, or Keysnian, Communism, or Democracy, is a conflict for fools since we can use them both as needed, and unlike the Ant, forge a collective where we can be productive, and all can SHARE the work, and the rewards. I admit, human communications is messy, but we have to keep talking honestly. Not only do we have a tremendous amount of work to do, but have even more changes to make.

Then we have the elephant in the room, electing leaders to do our bidding, but who are payrolled by special interests, who don't care if you have a job or a house, or anything else, as long as they can get more money, and more power. The entitled who think they know best for you. Republicans!!

Are you telling me that is the system you would prefer ?
Efficient, effective, equal, simple, and defined. the goal, to survive and thrive.

Yeah and Mussolini made the trains run on time. Liberty is messy .

So is a Whopper with everything on it. But we can share it can't we if that's all we have?

My point is that I can not see a system that doesn't work for everyone, especially those that can't work. Sorry, that's what republicans represent to me. Not that democrats are much better mind you, but I can see where the common ground between us is in the middle, neither all democrat, or all republican, someone who won't say crap to get elected. But is ready to talk, listen, and compromise. OBAMA!! Hey that seems to be all we got right now!

The train runs on time in Dallas, but they keep raising the rates. Mussolini ran his trains well, but his agenda sucked!