My two daughters are now, 19 and 26. The eldest and I have major issues. I was a child when she was born. A teenage mother who had no idea or finances to care for her. I had to take welfare. A stupid teenage mistake brought me this beautiful baby and I had her, regardless of how hard it would be. My
mother stepped in and helped me out, but she went beyond that. She was a very controlling woman, who had her own two sons taken by LA county and so to make up for it, she took my daughter. One day, I arrived home, and CPS was there and she had told them I was incapable of caring for her, suffered depression and didn't know how. I explained to the social worker that I was young, and
sad from not having a job yet, but that I loved my daughter. At that point, my mother used that as a reason to overtake my child. Having lived with me because she didn't have money for her own place, at that time, she came in handy with her baby help. I was young and stupid and I really made a mistake letting her take over, because she fell in love with the baby and ended up taking complete and total control of her. Having moved downstairs at one point on my own (leaving her my apartment), she kept a crib upstairs and I'd have to call and ask for my child. When she would allow me to come up to get her (on occasion), she would call me and ruin the entire visit and demanded her back for every reason under the sun, before I got to enjoy her company.

Years went by. I didn't stand up to my mother. I figured I had failed my child and she already showed signs of resentment... when I'd go to pick her up, she'd run to her nanny and ask if it was okay. She always acted like I was going to hurt her (which brought back memories of me as a child going to hug my father, and my mother's words echoing in my mind... "He's dangerous, be careful...he beat his other
children") and I know what she said to her. Well, at 5 years old, I made a huge stand. I tried taking my daughter back. I kept her, against my mother's wishes and told her, look... this is my child. I appreciate everything you did for her and for me but she is MY child and my mother made such a fuss... she would come and retrieve her for an hour, saying it was a visit, and then there was every single excuse under the sun not to bring her back. Days would go by... weeks... finally, I'd get someone to take me over here to get her (I had no vehicle. I was very poor because I lived in the real ghetto and it's all I could afford). When I'd show up, she'd be "sleeping" or "sick" or I couldn't take her that day... try again soon. Weeks would go by and I'd find myself getting her much more often because I really put an effort out... maybe 10 days a month, and as it proceeded, I just got sick of it. Finally, I moved out of
town with my child and my other daughter, then 2, and went up to {location removed} to live. I figured the distance would give my eldest daughter time to bond again with me and we'd be close like we were when she was little. But, she beat on her little sister, and she always pushed me away. She held me in resentment for not being there, yet when I was, she didn't want me. She confided later, as an adult, that my mother was HER mother and that she felt that my taking her home was cruel. She didn't want to be with me.

Well, I hoped all that would pass, and I lessened the time with her grandmother. Our relationship became very strained (mother's and mine) and I almost hated her at times for her manipulative control over me and my child. She would call CPS on me monthly. They were always at my house. After 13 years of CPS showing up, we finally threatened the county with a lawsuit. Not once, in 40 something visits, had they found anything wrong with me or my mothering. They had even gone to the extent of taking my children out of school and looking at their bodies for marks and questioning them. The head of CPS locally, apologized. She admitted that there was a continuous caller and when I said it had been my mother, and I knew it, she said that she could not tell me that. That it was sealed, however, if it was my mother, she would forever be barred from calling again. My daughter was 13 at that point... sister was 6 or 7. At that piont, with no basis for child abuse, the county closed our status (it took 13 years... meantime, I was terrified to answer my own door).

Finally, we had some peace, but the damage was extensive. Why didn't I just pack up and move? I know it sounds ludicrous, but if I had, my mother would have never spoken to me again and although she put me through living hell... part of why it kept going was she had an incredible hold on me and I
didn't know how to function without it. I was young. I was stupid. I made mistakes.

By 15, my daughter would scream at me and threaten me and we'd find ourselves in near-physical confrontations. I would threaten, scream, we'd almost go physical. It was awful. I called the Sheriff and he told me to put her on the ground. I did, and it just felt abusive to me, so I stopped, but not after trying it a few times and I think that really put us further apart.

At 16, she called that same sheriff, while I was at work and I came home to no daughter. She had packed her things and that sheriff took her to her grandmother's and she refused to come home. I gave up at that point and let her stay.

She was happy. My mother let her have a boyfriend who had no parents come live with them and move in (I was shocked) and she let her do anything she wanted. She gave her lavish things I couldn't give her and it didn't matter all the times I had tried to show her love or not. She had bonded with my mother, loved her more and there wasn't anything I could do about it. I had totally screwed up.

Well, she's 26 now. On my birthday, 2010, I turned 45. We went to the bar my daughter worked in (bartender) and she bought me drinks. I don't drink anymore (I did for a couple years.. the pain was a lot. I was burying it, but stopped when it became a habit), but we did some karoke and had fun and I thought things were good, but soon as she started to take me home, she started on me and screamed at me how horrible a mother I was and what a bad person I am, how lazy, manipulative, and disgusting
I was, all the way home.

We had lost my mother in July, six months prior, and it was devastating... but in a way, relieving. I was thinking maybe we could bond... I was hoping. Well, after over an hour of bantering me, telling me I failed, things you should never say to a mother... some true (I admit it, I screwed up but I was so young and so easily manipulated), and how I had let my ex husband be mean to her (I never saw it, but she says he was), and how I had failed her completely,

I finally told her that she had never been unwanted and I had always wanted to have her all to myself. She grimaced, with her teeth, looked at me and said, "I don't care what you wanted. I didn't want YOU", and at that point, I realized how much she's truly loathed me.

Well, after she said that, she took it back and said she was sorry and we needed to try to work out our relationship. She laid her head on my chest and I sobbed. I felt such hope. I thought, I will do anything I can to fix this! Anything.

She's always been on me about my house, and about my animals, and about several things she views as shortcomings by me, so I have been working very hard on those. My home is spotless. I got rid of my dog I loved so much for her (he lifted his leg on things, and she's right, he was not a good dog, but he was someone I loved, regardless) and I am lazy, it's true. I am really heavy. 400 lbs. I am in very very poor health and I have gone through 10 months of cancer screening, but when you are ill and depressed and heavy, it's hard not to be lazy. Well, she says I am and she is right. I could do more, so I have been trying.

This week, she was ultra cruel. During a conversation about picking her sister up (her sister lives with her and she uses her to control me, like my mother did... she controls her sister too and is very very hard on her about work and anything she can do to compare her sister to me. She views me as a complete failure and she tells her sister she is just like me that she has to change or she will be ruined like I am), during our conversation, I was trying to be nice and I invited her to the holiday dinners. I explained I've got a spotless home now, for you and I have got rid of my dog and I have wonderful plans how to make our holidays better, and she totally went off on me. She said holidays were always my thing and my other daughter's thing (my other daughter never saw a babysitter. I kept her and if my mom asked, I refused), and she said that she didn't give a F about the holidays and had no plans spending them with me. She said later, "My mother died in July. You are manipulative, a liar and lazy".

She has been really hard on me. So I sought out some help. This person told me that I have completely deluded myself. That my daughter has no intentions of ever changing her feelings toward me and she's just got me jumping through hoops to change myself and better myself for her so she can continue her punishment of me, for whatever she sees as my failures. I told her this and it ended on a bad note. I also told her, though, that the pain stops here and I can't stand this anymore. That I am discontinuing contact until she can talk to me like a human being.

I feel guilty. I am questioning my decision. I don't want this arguing and hate to continue. At my birthday, we both promised to try harder and I begged her forgiveness for anything she thought I did wrong as a mother... naming several things she had stated while screaming at me... and I named and asked for each one as forgiveness. I am not shucking the truth. I screwed up, I am sorry for it, it's time we go forward... but even though it was supposed to be the epiphony that changed our lives, and fixed it all, it hasn't. She's been harder on me than ever, the past 3 months.

I'm afraid my daughter will never try to contact me or doesn't want to and those horrible things, and my deliberately cutting her loose (which she already resents me for in the past) will cause her not to ever want to see me again. I'm afraid I made the wrong decision and totally ruined it now.

My mother's death anniversary was July 5. I have had so much loss. My father, mother, best friend, 2 sisters, ex, aunt I loved, and people in my life who meant SO much and all I have left, truly, is my family here. These two girls are everything.

I don't know what to do and I'm totally at a loss. I am all ears. Let me have it. If you want to tell me something about this situation, I will accept the truth and words at face value. No whitewashing it folks, please, give me some advice.

I find myself so depressed. I cry every single day. I cry when I'm supposed to be sleeping. I can't function. I don't bathe. I have truly considered suicide over this pain and although I am going to seek out some medication for depression, I honestly have NO idea what to do at this point.

I'm all ears. I will respect your opionions, negative or positive.

Thank you in advance.

{Mod Note-edited out double spacing for readability-<>}

I'm somewhat concerned by the double spacing. I trust this is a sincere post and not some "cut and paste" job that are sending everywhere. It sounds sincere but we've been burned before, here on AMHD.

My first question is why your younger daughter has left your home and moved in with your older daughter - ?

Where are the fathers and other relatives in this mess?

It sounds like your daughter blames you for everything that is wrong or not good in her life. Maybe she just needs someone to blame. Maybe she really means it.

However - my advice? Find someone to talk to. A professional, a friend, a relative, another adult, someone you can sit down with and go into all of this, someone who will listen and hopefully understand.

Similar situations have been posted and the advice has ranged from walking away for a while to writing a letter of "apology" to getting a third party to attempt to intervene. I don't know which of these will work for you. Parents have written letters which have been returned to them torn up - which is pretty hurtful!

I'm sure you realize suicide is not an answer. If you are depressed, certainly medication is the answer. You refer to drinking - is there a drinking problem in your past?

Can you talk to your younger daughter at all, reason with her?

I'm sure other people with advice will come on and try to help you - we all come from different places in life so the advice can vary widely.

(And if you are in the mood for half a smile I think you would have been better off keeping the dog and cutting the daughte loose - I hope you realize I'm just trying to lighten things up a little bit.)

Mother and daughter relationships can be very trying (at best) but it sounds like you've done all you can do to mend this one. The best thing you can do is improve your own self imagine, beat that cancer (!) and go on with your life.

Time does a wonderful job of healing wounds.

You will be in my thoughts.

I pasted it from notepad after I re-read it. This forum has a very small window. It's only posted here. Nowhere else.

I never had a drinking problem. She accuses me of that. For about a 2 month period, I drank wine at night. It relaxed me. I would drive to the store and get it. One night, I did something really stupid after drinking and realized it wasn't the answer. I could have become an alcoholic, because it made me feel very relieved. I didn't however.

I drink once every other year or so now. I have one or two.

My daughter will stand and tell everyone I was a drunk. She tells them I beat her and neglected her.

Neglect... perhaps. I screwed up. I wish I could turn back the clock.

Wow - are one of the most honest people I've ever seen post.

You already know this but every one of us has slipped and fallen. The difference is that some people pick themselves up and go on, as you have done.

My advice stays the same. I'm not sure you screwed up. You did the best you could at the time. No one would deliberately set out to destroy a relationship with her daughter. Neither did you.

I'm waiting for someone with a lot of knowledge to show up - and I just contacted her so she'll be here soon.

You can't get honest answers when you ask them with dishonesty. I can't see getting real help if I lie about anything.

Clarity - drinking. Off and on a couple years. Every couple nights for about 2 months. Stopped entirely after that 2 month run when I made a stupid mistake.

You can't get honest answers when you ask them with dishonesty. I can't see getting real help if I lie about anything.



Oh, you'd be AMAZED what people make up and post. We all run around, trying to help, and then one day we look at each other and realize it's all been pretend.

What can I say. This is all very true and very real.

There isn't one person in this world who hasn't made mistakes. I have.

You were raised by a mother who actually took your daughter. I don't
Think you have come to grips with that. You feel guilty about your Mom.
Don't! From what I've read about her I wouldn't shed one tear, not one.

Not only did she deprive you of your daughter when you were too young to know better, she turned that child against you. Calling CPS on a whim and making your life a living hell.

It's up to your children now to do some soul searching and to say, "Mom I forgive you, I know why you didn't raise me''

You are worth something. Don't ever, ever think different. You have been told so many times by your Mother and your daughter that you're worthless, that you believe it. It's not true.

We are all here for a reason and I know some good will come out of this.
Wait and see if it don't. Hang on and know there are people who care.
Don't give up on yourself just because you think you haven't lived up to everyone's expectations. Join the Club.

Every day is a gift and when you wake up it's a new start. Set some goals for yourself and follow through. Don't let your daughter and her bitterness ruin anymore of your life.

You can charge and be who you want to be. If you pray and believe in God just tell him everything. Put it in his hands. We are here.:)

I do know how it feels when your mother takes over your role as a new parent. It is hard enough to adjust with all the sudden changes. I too felt totally out of place, 100% unsure of myself, and utterly lost in how to care for a newborn. It felt like I had made the worst possible decision to have a baby. And I had been married six years at the time. Trouble was, I'd be yelling at my husband to do things, and I didn't know what to do myself.

Then my mother moved in as she needed help with recovering from an amputation. She took over. The rocking, the feeding, pushing the carriage (she couldn't walk without support), feeding her. I got the other tasks, laundry, making up formula, bathing her, doing all the driving, everything. I realized that I never bonded with my own daughter, because I was afraid to speak up, and I never set any boundaries or expectations toward my mother.

But for me, this lasted only a year, and eventually, I was able to re-establish a bond with my daughter, but for you, having your mother take over the mothering role on a permanent basis, left you with only blanks to fill in, when you had her. However, It is easy to see and understand how difficult (if not impossible) it is to say 'no' to your own mother, especially with a baby, and particularly when you need the guidance and help the most.

I still think of those days from time to time, and I still carry some resentment.

But, like you, I cannot turn back the clock, and undo anything. Life unfolded the way it did, and the only real control you have now, is over yourself. Learning to let the past go is not easy, because it is the past that has resulted in where you and your daughters are today. But, if you don't let go now, this will swallow you whole.

You have done the right thing in deciding upon some distance. Not severing ties, but some distance. Think about what you really want, what you need to do to get down that list.

While the situation with your daughters is one thing, your health is another, and to me, from what you've described, that has to come first. Please go back to your Doctor, and tell him you are very depressed, and why. He/she should see this as a sign that your recovery could be compromised because being depressed and despondent will not help in your recovery. He should also be aware that you have little to no support system, and ask him (if he doesn't offer) how you can get help to get counselling. You may even wish to seek out assistance and information through the American Cancer Society as to groups within the organization, that help others with similar situations as yours.

In other words, try to deal with the depression first, in conjunction with your Doctor, and any available resource- just for yourself. No other goal than to be stronger, and better able to cope.

When you are feeling better, you may wish to attempt some sort of relationship with your daughters. My best advice to you is to set your own goals and expectations, and then tell them under which conditions you will see them. List it if you have to. Include no going backwards in time, no negative or accusatory comments, no threats, no anger directed at you, etc. Tell them that in time, if they think it is necessary, and you are well enough to, that you will consider therapy for the three of you. And there, and only there, will issues of the past be brought up and dealt with. The past has to be tucked into a box, and put in the basement. You cannot go forward with it, and expect that your own life will recover unscathed if you continue to allow them the use of hammers on you. It must stop now. No negotiating that.

My thinking is that balancing your needs, with their needs, and all of your needs to find a path, or forge a path that is healthier, isn't going to happen until you are first, strong on your own. To keep sliding back to that place of anguish, and never getting past the past, will not see you healthy in your future. And that future, only you can determine.

Work on letting the guilt go by expunging it. Get a notebook, and write it out as you have here, and then tuck it away. Topic by topic as it comes to you. Then, set it aside, because you have dealt with it for now, and carry on concentrating on you. You will feel better because you are dealing with it in a concrete way, instead of allowing it to consume you. Doing this will take time and patience, but, you will feel better.

Please don't give up. You have so much living to do, and there is every hope that you and your daughters can establish a respectful, meaningful relationship, instead of each encounter being another round in the boxing ring.

But, you have to start with yourself first. Being strong enough to define yourself and your role in a different way with your daughters will not happen while you are depressed and not strong enough to cope with them and their behaviour. Put yourself first for as long as it takes for you to be strong and independent of the past, and then, you decide how the future is going to be by setting boundaries and expectations.

It is never, ever too late to have a healthy relationship with your children, no matter how old they are. Just first things first.

I wonder about your children. I know you love them. This is about you.
Don't ever think of suicide, it's just a final solution for a temporary problem. I need to ask, are you an alcoholic? Do you have friends? Please remember how much you mean to someone. Get yourself together and I would bet when you do your family will come around. It may take a while, but you've waited a long time so while you wait see a doctor.

Get out and walk and see all the things you haven't seen in a while. Where there's life there's hope. You are worth something and you are going to prove to yourself you have enough guts to face it head on. Think about it.

You are the only one who has control f your life. Make it count. Make it happy and when you look in the mirror you can be proud of that woman looking back.

Kitkat22, you know, I've gone over that same question over and over, because I have suffered the accusations of it.

When I drank, it was every 3 or 4 months, I'd get really tipsy, over about a 2 year period. In the end, I decided to drink more often, for about 2 months... I liked it. It probably could have become alcoholism, but it was not. I have asked myself that 1000 times, at least, and asked a family friend of more than 20 years who knew me back then (she's very honest)... and I have never craved, wanted or had an issue with wanting it since I quit.

To walk, you have to be able to move. I'm too big to walk and I can't hold my weight, but I am trying. I walk up the block every week and I am going to increase that as my muscles build up. After I walk, it takes many days for the agony to cease in the joints. If I go back to a cane or a chair, I will not be able to strengthen my muscles. I am truly trying.

I do not have any friends. I have nobody. I am 100% isolated, which I probably caused myself, because I would rather be alone than ruin a friendship. It hurts too much to ruin things like that and every relationship I have had ends up ruined. I'd rather not have the hurt.

I say the same thing you say, to people in need... you are the only one who can make yourself happy or not, but it's a load of bull, when every time you take a step forward you have someone screaming to all your friends, relatives and relationships that you are crap. There is not any possibility that I can overlook it and not let it effect me. It hurts me to the bone.

I texted my daughter earlier. I told her I don't necessarily agree with the friend who told me I was deluded about our relationship, that I love her and I know that she loves me too. That I know that even though she's angry, we can get past it if we try harder not to allow our habit of fighting to win. We just need to learn not to fight.

I was hoping it would smooth it over. The response was, "I thought I made myself clear you were not to text me anymore".

I give up, but I want to thank everyone here for helping. I have read everything and I am going to take some of this advice and try to apply it. I look forward to anymore that comes across and I am grateful, don't think I'm not.

Thank you all for this, so far... I will try to respond periodically between new posts.

Kitkat22, you know, I've gone over that same question over and over, because I have suffered the accusations of it.

When I drank, it was every 3 or 4 months, I'd get really tipsy, over about a 2 year period of time. In the end, I decided to drink more often, for about 2 months...I liked it. It probably could have become alcoholism, but it was not. I have asked myself that 1000 times, at least, and asked a family friend of more than 20 years who knew me back then (she's very honest) ... and I have never craved, wanted or had an issue with wanting it since I quit.

To walk, you have to be able to move. I'm too big to walk and I can't hold my weight, but I am trying. I walk up the block every week and I am going to increase that as my muscles build up. After I walk, it takes many days for the agony to cease in the joints. If I go back to a cane or a chair, I will not be able to strengthen my muscles. I am truly trying.

I do not have any friends. I have nobody. I am 100% isolated, which I probably caused myself, because I would rather be alone than ruin a friendship. It hurts too much to ruin things like that and every relationship I have had ends up ruined. I'd rather not have the hurt.

I say the same thing you say, to people in need...you are the only one who can make yourself happy or not, but it's a load of bull, when everytime you take a step forward you have someone screaming to all your friends, relatives and relationships that you are crap. There is not any possibility that I can overlook it and not let it effect me. It hurts me to the bone.

I texted my daughter earlier. I told her I don't necessarily agree with the friend who told me I was deluded about our relationship, that I love her and I know that she loves me too. That I know that even though she's angry, we can get past it if we try harder not to allow our habit of fighting to win. We just need to learn not to fight.

I was hoping it would smooth it over. The response was, "I thought I made myself clear you were not to text me anymore".

I give up, but I want to thank everyone here for helping. I have read everything and I am going to take some of this advice and try to apply it. I look forward to anymore that comes across and I am greatful, don't think I'm not.

Thankyou all for this, so far...I will try to respond periodically between new posts.



Stop putting yourself down. You can get help from organizations who will help you get yourself in shape medically and emotionally and physically. Pick up the phone and call them.

You know what I've learned through the years? People are going to talk'
They are going to say mean things and some people believe them whether
They are true or not. People don't have to die for you so don't let them live for you. Live for yourself.

See, Kitkat, I view your cold, ill-understood advice as mean.

You aren't trapped in my condition or my health issues and you have no idea how the Medi-Cal system in California works (or as it is... does NOT work). SIX weeks until the appointment for anti-depressants. Physically, I am getting help. I posted I have been undergoing cancer screening... I am seeing a physician.

You assume nobody is out here trying to help ourselves. The truth is, that's the same cold freaking attitude my daughter gives, only with a much more judgemental response.

I have met people like you my entire life. Their answer is to not let it bother me. But I am 45. It DOES bother me. I can't just not let what she says hurt. It simply does.

I knew this was a wrong move coming here. I wish I could delete this account. I unsubscribed, but it only unsubbed me from this thread. I want this taken down. I should never have tried to get help.

See, Kitkat, I view your cold, ill-understood advice as mean.

You aren't trapped in my condition or my health issues and you have no idea how the Medi-Cal system in California works (or as it is...does NOT work). SIX weeks til the appointment for anti-depressants. Physically, I am getting help. I posted I have been undergoing cancer screening...I am seeing a physician.

You assume nobody is out here trying to help ourselves. The truth is, that's the same cold freaking attitude my daughter gives, only with a much more judgemental response.

I have met people like you my entire life. Their answer is to not let it bother me. But I am 45. It DOES bother me. I can't just not let what she says hurt. It simply does.

I knew this was a wrong move coming here. I wish I could delete this account. I unsubscribed, but it only unsubbed me from this thread. I want this taken down. I should never have tried to get help.

I'm very sorry I didn't know. Excuse my being so unaware. Keep psting and again please forgive my harsh words.

Once the OP turns passive/aggressive, I'm out of here.

Kit, you did NOTHING wrong. OP asked for from the heart advice and that's exactly what she got. Just like every other State, California has emergency resources. No one who is suicidal is asked to wait 6 weeks to see a Physician - there are mental health centers all over the place.

Don't stop answering; don't stop trying to help; don't let this get you down.

I asked you to respond because I value your advice. Always consider the source when ranting like this is posted.

Now do "we" all understand the problem with the daughters? I think I do.

When the OP thrives and feeds on being downtrodden, misunderstood, under privileged, suffering, there is little anyone can say or do - because that's how the OP pictures herself, that's the image she wants to portray.

Sorry I called you in but it's a learning experience.

Once the OP turns passive/aggressive, I'm out of here.

Kit, you did NOTHING wrong. OP asked for from the heart advice and that's exactly what she got. Just like every other State, California has emergency resources. No one who is suicidal is asked to wait 6 weeks to see a Physician - there are mental health centers all over the place.

Don't stop answering; don't stop trying to help; don't let this get you down.

I asked you to respond because I value your advice. Always consider the source when ranting like this is posted.

Now do "we" all understand the problem with the daughters? I think I do.



I am in tears. I did not mean to say anything to offend her.

You didn't, Kit, you didn't. She CHOOSES to be offended - and it's a conscious choice. Another "good-bye forever" person who still is signed on.

Kit, you were there for me and you would be there for her.

Think of all the people who have been grateful and keep moving forward.

You didn't, Kit, you didn't. She CHOOSES to be offended - and it's a conscious choice. Another "good-bye forever" person who still is signed on.

Kit, you were there for me and you would be there for her.

Think of all the people who have been grateful and keep moving forward.

Thanks JudyKaye:)

I am not passive-aggressive and I did not attack KitKat, who has nicely turned this into her post.

I came here to seek an honest response to an honest issue. I am truly on the last leg without any way to seek help and I did go for mental health help and I did tell them I have suicidal ideation. I was given a six week appointment. That is not my fault.

I know you are defending your friend, but her post was coldhearted. In that post, it states two major things I see standing out.

#1 : Everything is my fault. I am solely and 100% responsible for everything and #2 : That I am in the condition I am in, because I didn't pick up a phone.

Those are very judgemental assumptions.

KitKat, I know you have a following here, and you say you are in tears. Do you have any idea what your post did to me? Remember me folks? I'm that woman over here who is having an emotional meltdown and came to a forum for support, who choked down her fears and posted her entire life's story on an open forum where the entire freaking world can read it, with 100% total and complete honesty and got shot down.

In a nutshell, whether that makes me passive-aggressive, or not, I asked for help. I asked for advice, not rudeness and there is always a nice way to deliver something.

Please, if someone wants to offer advice, whether you blame me or not, don't do it meanly. I can NOT handle anymore meanness from anyone... but I will read what you have to say.

I notice you jumped on Kit to criticize her; you didn't have one word for me when I offered you every word of support I had.

Yes, you are CHOOSING to be offended.

If you want your post removed, stop posting and it will die.

You didn't, Kit, you didn't. She CHOOSES to be offended - and it's a conscious choice. Another "good-bye forever" person who still is signed on.


Wow. Okay. I'll sign off. I won't read any further. I didn't choose to be offended.

Wow... 1 word Therapy

I didn't say anything to warrant your outburst.

When I said pick up the phone is was to call when you need help.

When I said people don't have to die for you, so don't let them live for you"

People talk and I stand beside what I said, you can't stop them from talking, but you can try to ignore it.

Jake, JudyKayTree, everone else who responded; thank you for your honest words. I did indeed appreciate the honesty, just as I appreciated Kit's up to a point.

You are entitled to your opinions. We all are.

Just because someone is in bad shape does not mean they have not picked up a phone for help.

Just because someone's having a hard time, and is in an emotional distress does not mean that they brought that onto themselves, nor does it mean that they caused or deserve it.

KitKat - People will never remember your name, birthday or where you are from, but they will always remember the way you treat them.

I didn't make that up. If I've misunderstood your wording, I apologize.

If I was using this forum to help people, it would solely be because I want to help them. It would never be for self-gratification or to use as a sounding board to hear my own voice speak. I would never misuse it to get my aggressions out nor to put others down.

I fully intend to hang around here, even though when I'm being put down by so many people, my instincts are to run. I think that's pretty normal.

I do have some excellent advice to offer others in my areas of expertise, and I look forward to others who have things to say about my post.

I am a good person, no matter what these women and men say. None of you know me. You all met a terribly depressed, distressed, emotional disaster who is on the verge of suicide and who has nobody to talk to... she came here to ask for support... advice... maybe a friend.

It should NOT be a fingerpointing contest. When any forum goes there, that's completely and totally wrong. Especially in a thread asking for help in a truly desperate state of mind. People in my state of mind, right now, often react completely out of character because they feel hurt, scared, worried, alone... isolated, etc.

Kat, good luck. I am VERY thankful for the nice things you said, however, I sat on this response awhile and I still read what you originally wrote (not the rewrite) as what it said. I came back unemotional to take a second look. I still think just like you... I stand by what I said. But I'm adult enough to admit I am emotional today. Maybe in a week or so I will realize I was touchy.

There was no outburst by me either. Just wrote down what I was feeling there... nothing meant rude or said in a "tone".

I do agree to a point. I do need to stop letting it hurt me, what people say, but the problem is that it DOES hurt, regardless of what I need to do.

It hurts. Plain and simple, and unlike most people, I do not seem to have that ability to turn off my emotions and just let it ride. I have tried my entire life.

I'm 45. It's not going to happen now.

My one daughter and I are extremely close. She and I are nearly inseparable. I think that speaks for itself. I did a great job with her. She's going to be a hard worker, like her mother, and she will be a well-educated person, like her mother, and she will make something of herself, but my other daughter is terribly jealous of her and hard on her also.

Just because I am in ill-health now, and depressed now, does not mean I always have been.

The issue here isn't whether KitKat and I agree on her post.

It is about the originating post, and the answers received so far are appreciated and were answered in a timely fashion, to the best of my abilities. I did not mean to leave anyone out.

I apologize to everyone if you have been offended by anything I said.

You said something in your post about me that has me puzzled. You said "I know KitKat has her followers" which I don't ,I have friends.
Why would you think I have followers if you have never been on this site
Before?

You jumped down my throat and you didn't say anything to anyone else. Why? I hope you get better, but in order to do that you have to change your way of dealing with people. I did nothing to warrant your outburst. I'm puzzled about you.

Again, there was no outburst.

I did not realize you are friends in real life. Followers (follow certain posters to forums, I am an IT professional. That is a typical term)... friends, both come to support other followers or friends. Enough. Please?

Do you have a PHD, Kitkat? If not, please don't diagnose me as needing to get better.

I don't want to argue. I think I was more than apologetic in the last post and the adult thing, to do, is to realize I came here emotinal and to chalk it up to that, not to keep riding me. I came for some advice, not an argument.

Again, please? Can we go forward?

Please, let's move forward?

I have to say that in your first post you're asking of our advice and you want us to give you the truth. But when one person does that you get offended you go into a full blown mental break down of "Why me".

To me that suggests you need more than we are able to give you on this forum.

Kit's post was only not offensive it was something that I felt could be applied to anyone, not just you. I'm still new on these forums but I have yet to see a post from anyone here who tried to help you that was intentionally cruel, including Kit.

To be honest the vibe I got from her post was that of someone being comforting and understanding.

She was correct in that people will always say mean things, will lie about situations and further try to push away people.

Part of the problem in this is that I feel you are not realizing the pain your daughter is in. You're only focusing on the pain this is all causing you. Which it's great to work on yourself but if you ignore everything around you, only take account for your own feelings you may find yourself unable to heal from things of the past.

There are also other options out there where you do not have to wait 6 weeks for an appointment. Yes, even in California. I suggest tracking down your local chapter for the YWCA. They have resources to help you whether it be mentally, physically, or family oriented. And if they don't have the resources to fully help you, you can bet they know who does and can set that up for you.

But part of me thinks you don't want to make the effort to seek out options. You'd rather wait and make yourself out to be the victim of it all. Blaming one person or another. While you hate the way you feel, it's also a comfort zone to you. This is all you know. To change that is one hell of a scary step. But until you make the effort to do it, take blame everywhere where it's applied and own up to other's pain this is all your life is going to be. And it's not fun.

I know first hand. While my situation is very different from yours I too have ruined relationships and am just now trying very hard to apologize and work on those relationships.

I am in a situation where I am estranged from someone. Someone who caused ME great pain in my life but that pain doesn't excuse my mistakes and bad choices. I made the choice to confront those issues and try to make amends. I'm still waiting on the outcome from that and it may be something that surprises me and says we can work on our relationship or it could be like your daughter was when she said not to text her anymore. And no matter how scared I am of that outcome, I know I needed to try and so I did. And, because of what Kit wrote, I know that no matter what the outcome is that I cannot stop my life and my healing because of that. Because I tried and I am making the steps to move forward and fix things.

You can only do so much when it comes to your daughter. She didn't have an easy life and I'm sure there is a lot of resentment. That is something she is going to have to decide if she wants to work on it or not. And even if it's not right now it may be in the future. It seems the pain may be too near for her right now to figure things out and pushing you away may be the only comfort she has right now.

I personally think her pushing you away right now may be the best thing for everyone involved. And I do not mean that in any harsh way at all. But where YOU are at right now isn't really a place that can handle everything involved to move forward with her, to get her forgiveness and for you to forgive her.

One thing I have learned so far on this journey I am going in to turn my life around is that the excuses have to stop. To continue to find excuses for everything we do, we say, or have done in the past need to quit so we can take ownership of everything.


Just because someone's having a hard time, and is in an emotional distress does not mean that they brought that onto themselves, nor does it mean that they caused or deserve it.

No, it doesn't mean that all of the time. But this is not just the fault of your Mother, your daughter or anyone else. You DO have fault in this and you need to realize that and figure it out in order to move forward for both healing for yourself and your daughter.


People will never remember your name, birthday or where you are from, but they will always remember the way you treat them.
I'm sure your daughter would agree.



If I was using this forum to help people, it would solely be because I want to help them. It would never be for self-gratification or to use as a sounding board to hear my own voice speak. I would never misuse it to get my aggressions out nor to put others down.
This forum is one of the nicest advice forums I've ever been on. The people here really seem to care for one another. Whether it be members here to help others or those just popping in with a question and needing help. I've seen debates on here where people are actually decent to each other. I have yet to see anyone be intentionally cruel and if there has been in the past it seems to me moderators step in right away and take care of the situation.


I fully intend to hang around here, even though when I'm being put down by so many people, my instincts are to run. I think that's pretty normal.
You're not being put down by anyone here. You're being put down by your own mind. Everyone here is volunteering their time to help you because they actually care. If they didn't there are other people on here that need help. If they didn't care I am sure they could show you a more "cruel" side then you feel you've already seen.

Running for you is normal. It's comforting. But how is that working out for you?



None of you know me.
Do you know yourself? I'm not asking that to be harsh but seriously, do you know who you are?

These things:

You all met a terribly depressed, distressed, emotional disaster who is on the verge of suicide and who has nobody to talk to... she came here to ask for support... advice... maybe a friend.
Do not define you! So, who are you?


People in my state of mind, right now, often react completely out of character because they feel hurt, scared, worried, alone... isolated, etc.
So you want us to help you with kid gloves on? Treat you like you're a victim? You're using those words as a crutch. Sadly, doing that is only making your situation worse. I'm not denying the way you are feeling but you need to walk away from saying things like this or further adding that we're all talking to someone who is suicidal. For one, if you're suicidal there is nothing here we can do for you. You need to either get yourself to a hospital or call a suicide hotline (1-800-273-8255).



I do need to stop letting it hurt me, what people say, but the problem is that it DOES hurt, regardless of what I need to do.
Someone once told me hurt people, hurt people. How very true it is. It's going to hurt until you do the things you need to do. Do you want to keep hurting from this and then hurting those around you or do you want to move on and work towards better things?



I'm 45. It's not going to happen now.
With this attitude you currently have, no it's not. But if you go back and listen to what I said about making excuses you will realize that if you put in the effort and the word that yes it can happen. Things can get better but only IF you want it to.

Again, not trying to be harsh but you need to realize that you and only you have the ability to fix what is going on in YOUR life. You can decide to keep finding comfort in your pain and play the victim or you can decide to do something about it.

You're so stuck in the victim mentality that I don't think you even see that you've contradicted yourself in your posts. First you stated this:


I do not have any friends. I have nobody. I am 100% isolated, which I probably caused myself, because I would rather be alone than ruin a friendship. It hurts too much to ruin things like that and every relationship I have had ends up ruined. I'd rather not have the hurt.

You say you have no friends, you mentioned in the OP that you lost best friends. At some point you did. You also mentioned in a later post that a FRIEND was telling you how they feel you're deluded about the relationship with your daughter.

You say you have "nobody" but yet say this:



My one daughter and I are extremely close. She and I are nearly inseperable. I think that speaks for itself. I did a great job with her. She's going to be a hard worker, like her mother, and she will be a well-educated person, like her mother, and she will make something of herself

Clearly you DO have someone. You are so blinded by the pain, hurt, and guilt that you cannot see what is in front of you. You cannot see that you need to get yourself better before trying to repair a relationship with your daughter or anyone. Once you have yourself situated you will be ready to take on everything else that is in front of you and move on with the results of that whether it's a good turn out or not.


my other daughter is terribly jealous of her
I can understand why she is jealous of your other daughter, can you? I'm not agreeing with the way she's dealing with her own pain but it's her own pain. She has hers, you have yours. She needs to work on her pain and hurt just like you do. And until the both of you do so there is no way you can fix anything.

This is a quote that has been a big help to me during my journey, may it help you too.


You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space. - Johnny Cash

I don't have any advice that you haven't already been given, but I do have to post.

Yes, Kitkat is a friend of mine, so is Judy, Jake, and many other people on this site. By the way, hi FoxCash, welcome to the site. I've loved reading your posts. You're a very welcome addition to our family.

To the OP, one thing you should know about all of us before you go off on one of our members. If Kit had been rude to you or said something offensive to you, none of us would have sugarcoated anything, we wouldn't have backed her up, and we would have told her, or anyone that posted, that their post was not appropriate. I've done it before, all of us have. We care about this site and we care about the people coming here for advice.

As friends we can be honest with each other, and we are. Judy is one of the best friends I have on this site, I adore her (well darnit, now I'm crying), but we don't always agree and we're far from shy about telling each other that we don't.

That's not how we do things. If someone gives bad advice, or is cruel, or rude, we're the first ones to slap them on the hand. None of us will stand back and support someone if they're in the wrong.

Kit did nothing wrong. Nothing. This one's on you and you alone. If you took offense, than perhaps she hit a sore spot. That sore spot is probably the answer to your question. If you want help, ask yourself why you were offended, because that's where the truth lies.

I can't even respond. They are moderating my posts. So, what I said to kit after her post won't be posted until all her friends come to stand beside her. Especially when I AM a victim... and yes, I have posted a long post, and in it I admit my faults. I am absolutely NOT blind to them... this has turned into something mean and you know, I can tell that even though I apologized and asked Kit to go forward (in a post being held for moderation) that I am not wanted here. I've been nothing but nice to you all.

Out of greenies, but KitKat, you said nothing that would cause offense. Alty, you told it like it is , as always.

To the OP, everyone here is genuinely trying to help. I really don't see where anyone is trying to put you down. What they are trying to do is spur you on to do as much as possible to make your situation better. Yes it is difficult. Pretty much everyone who has responded has had to overcome major adversity in their own lives and come out stronger on the other side. It is the fact that they have done so that gives them understanding in how we can all hold ourselves back from making progress by our feelings of helplessness. This is not a negative judgement it is simply an understanding of human nature.

Well, Alty summed it all up. I do note that OP started with "I'm all ears. I will respect your opionions, negative or positive" and then went off in another direction.

At any rate - as Jake said, you can't MAKE anyone change.

I can't even respond. They are moderating my posts.

Actually NO. That would be per-reviewed moderation brought about by your current negative reputation.

I can't even respond. They are moderating my posts. So, what I said to kit after her post won't be posted until all her friends come to stand beside her. Especially when I AM a victim.

Victim of what? Read Kits posts again, she's been nothing but kind. You are the one that jumped on her, she is the victim here, not you. If you can't see that than perhaps that's part of the problem. Is this how you deal with day to day contact with the people in your life? Is everything that goes wrong, every altercation, someone else's fault even when it's clearly in your hands?


this has turned into something mean and you know, I can tell that even though I apologized and asked Kit to go forward (in a post being held for moderation) that I am not wanted here. I've been nothing but nice to you all.

Mean? Where? Point that out because I don't see it. Kit posted and she gave you advice. She wasn't at all mean, but your response to her was. What you said to her was uncalled for, rude, and out of line. If Kit had been mean I would have told her so, all of us would have. The fact is, she wasn't mean at all, it was you that was mean, so if you feel that that's where this thread has gone, that's on you, not on anyone else.

You haven't been nice to all of us. You were very unkind to Kit, but you view yourself as the victim here. That's mind boggling. I can't believe that you don't see that you started this. Even after you went off on Kit no one was mean to you, we simply pointed out that your rude post to her was uncalled for. Again, this is on you, no one else.

If you plan to apologize I'm sure that Kit will accept that apology. That's the kind of person she is.

I can only speak for myself, but if you apologize and want to continue discussing this, want advice, than I'm more than willing to let by gones be by gones and move forward. If that's what you decide you have to remember that we have many members on this site, you won't always hear what you want to hear, but you will get advice. It's up to you to read the posts, choose what you think will work for you. If, for some reason, you find a post not to your liking, ignore it, but don't go off on the person that posted it.

You are welcome here, but not if you're going to be unkind to people.

Let me know what you decide and we can move forward or I can ask the mods to close this thread and be done with it.

OK, I'm going to step in here.

From your original post: "No whitewashing it folks, please, give me some advice." Yet when you received some advice you didn't like you lashed out at it.

It was mentioned in an earlier response that we have been burned by others posting sob stories here. So when you attacked a highly respected member of this site, without ANY justification (IMHO) yes her friends are going to take a different look at your story and your posts. That one response lost you a lot of respect that you might otherwise have earned.

That all being said, I think we have all made our positions clear so I'm going to return this thread to its original purpose. I will not allow any further posts in this thread discussing your unwarranted attack.

Now I'm going to reinforce Kit's advice. You have made a mess of your relationships with your daughters. Some of this mess was caused by your mother, some of it by your own inexperience (your situation is a great example why children should NOT be having children) and some of it caused by yourself.

But the bottom line is you NEED several sessions with a trained professional to deal with your lack of self-esteem and destructive tendencies. Only after you deal with these and understand that you can't reverse the mistakes of the past, can you try to go forward. At some point the therapist will probably want to integrate your daughters into your therapy. But they also need to understand their own biases first.

In my opinion this is the only way you will make any progress with your situation.

I think you need counseling, probably medication for depression and help with behavior modification. I don't think fixing the relationship with your daughter is even the most important thing right now - you have to fix your relationship with yourself and your own self-image. You need to learn to rely on yourself and trust that you are more than enough, and you need to learn to live up to your own picture of a respectable, worthwhile person. I get a feeling life has been hard on you, and you've been even harder on yourself. You've criticized yourself to death, and have not treated yourself well with your behaviors - whether experimenting with drinking, neglecting your body, letting your house get out of control, or getting a dog that you did not take the time to properly train - these are all actions of a person who needs to learn to have self respect. It's not about being lazy -it's about being depressed and not having confidence or the expectation for better for yourself.

If you can't afford counseling, call your local county. If they don't help, go to the emergency room and tell them you feel you are in a serious depression and need help. It may sound severe, but you've been battered by life for years and extreme measures would not be unreasonable to get on the right track.

Don't let another day go by without a plan in place to get help with your depression - not one day. You don't have to live like this - absolutely not.

You aren't trapped in my condition or my health issues and you have no idea how the Medi-Cal system in California works (or as it is...does NOT work). SIX weeks til the appointment for anti-depressants. Physically, I am getting help. I posted I have been undergoing cancer screening...I am seeing a physician.


I'm just going to make this short and sweet. You don't have to wait 6 weeks for anti-depressant meds if you are already seeing a physician. ANY physician can prescribe these.

Also, if you are seeing a physician about possible cancer, this physician SHOULD be prescribing this to you already due to the nature of your visitis with him/her.

Before you question me... I am a registered nurse and also a cancer survivor. I WAS prescribed anti-depressants by a primary care physician when I was diagnosed with cancer. NEVER saw a psychiatrist.

I want to say something here too. I don't want you to feel that we are all jumping on you. If you truly are a new member, then one thing you should know about AMHD is we all started here with a question of our own. Whether it was a personal health issue, a family issue, or looking for a name of a movie, regardless, we all started here seeking help.

None of the people who responded were here to judge or be cruel. We volunteer our time here, because we love to help. Even if it's recommending a good carpet cleaner, it feels nice knowing that you may have made some one's life easier.

I am not sure why you took Kit's post so personal, but I can honestly tell you, Kit is one of the kindest and honest person I have virtually met. I really liked her post about "people won't die for you, so don't let them live for you", judging by your post, you are an intelligent person, and I think you know exactly what she meant by that.

It was not meant to be mean or hurtful. A lot of us who started here had our own obsticals to over come, and if you are going to be put off by this one comment which was meant to help, not hurt, than you are not only going to miss out on getting to know great people, Kit included, and making some great online friends, but also you are going to miss out on a great site.

Good luck Private ID, I hope you re consider. As far as your original post, I can not offer any further advice then what has been given. But I can offer my ears and thoughts on ideas YOU have to help your situation.

I am in the same situation and ii can't believe what I'm going through my daughter is 28 her sister talks to me but she doesn't! I don't know what to do anymore even when she comes visit my daughter I can't be anywhere near
In my heart I know she loves me but is afraid of the disappontment I created 10 years ago.But these children only have one mother and should learn life is full of bumpy roads
I wish I knew what to tell you just keep belivieng I know I will never have contact but I hope your situation becomes better