Hello Everybody,

I joined here because this seems to be a pretty big help website, and I would like to have some guidance right now.

Ive been dating the same girl (now my ex) for about 5 years. We started dating in our first year of high school. All throughout high school we were together. We spent every minute together. We alienated most of our friends for each other. After we graduated, we moved out into an income based apartment. That was last year. Well on Friday she came to me with some news I never expected to hear; she wanted out.

Let me give some background. As with all couples who have been together for a while, we had our disagreements and arguments of course. We have both been faithful to each other. And we both made some considerable sacrifices for one another. I always did things that annoyed her, she always did things that annoyed me; its just how it was. Now looking back, I will confess that I wasn't as good a boyfriend that I couldve been. I never really gave her the affection she deserved. I was mean a lot of the time. Just wasn't really what she deserved, I realize it now. She was always the loving one. Of course she did things that bothered me, but not on the level that I treated her.

Last year, after we graduated, she started college. She finished her first year while we were still together, and still living together. Everything has been fine this summer, but she always nagged me to do stuff. I work 40-48 hours a week, so I don't always feel like doing stuff during the week. She was always getting me to do stuff with her, go out, just do stuff and have fun, not just sit around and relax like I did. Keep in mind that I am off on weekends, and she normally would work on weekends, so our schedules never really matched 100% and never really had enough time to do something substantial.

This is where ill put everything together, this is her reasoning for wanting to be single. First is she says she feels like she's missing out on things, and one is her college experience (remember when I said I never really wanted to do things because I work?) Another thing is that she says she wants her space, and just doesn't know if she wants to be in a relationship right now. I don't understand how you can go from being in a relationship with someone for 5 years to wanting to be single all of a sudden. She said she has been tossing this idea around in her head for about a month, but she never came to me. She never came to me and expressed herself to me. She never came to me about anything, until she told me she wanted to be single. She's not giving me the chance to make up either. She says that she doesn't want to meet anybody else, and she says she hasn't met anybody else. She also says her friends haven't put her up to this either. Ive told her I'm willing to compromise, and I've told her I can change. I told her she can have her college experience with me. Her sister says that she is confused about everything right now. And it really shows, because its like she can't give me a straight answer, its just the same old vague "i just want my space right now".

Here's my real delimma: Why wouldn't she come to me and talk to me? What is a reason for a female wanting her space so quick? Everybody says that if I give her her space, she may realize where her heart is. Everybody has been telling me to cut off ties with her, and I am trying. Anybody who has broken up from a long relationship knows the first few days and weeks are hard. Is completely shutting her out a good idea? I am mainly scared because I don't know what she is capable of, I don't know what she is going to do. I just have this nagging feeling she wants to go smash other guys.

I know for a fact that she has already been asked for her number, I don't know if she gave it to the dude or not. And I know that she is planning a double date with her sister and one of her sisters friends to six flags. Its like she is already getting out there with other guys without it bothering her. Also she isn't showing any emotion barely either.

I know what I have to do, I'm just really confused as to why she wants her space all of a sudden after 5 years.. Thanks for the help everybody.

Wow she sounds like me. Me and my man live together 3yrs now and we alienated our friends. He is just like you in the not going out part because he works fulltime and also our schedules never really match up. At least you make the effort to do fun things with her which means you care about her and want to do things that will make her happy. My boyfriend isn't affectionate with me either unless he wants sex. Now I too have been bouncing the idea in my mind about wanting out and I also feel like I'm missing out in the world because I am in a relationship. I'm not in a healthy relationship because we control each other and hopefully that's not the case with you guys. I also feel like I want space. Did she go from her parents house strAight to living with you? If so then she might want space because she never had the opurtunity to live on her own (just like me) I enjoy having my own things and decorating how I want but when you live with someone it kind of turns into "us". About the other guys, it seems like maybe she met this person while you were together and maybe that could have influenced her decision in leaving especially if you say she isn't showing any emotions.

wow she sounds like me. me and my man live together 3yrs now and we alienated our friends. he is just like you in the not going out part because he works fulltime and also our schedules never really match up. atleast you make the effort to do fun things with her which means you care about her and want to do things that will make her happy. my boyfriend isnt affectionate with me either unless he wants sex. now i too have been bouncing the idea in my mind about wanting out and i also feel like im missing out in the world because i am in a relationship. im not in a healthy relationship because we control eachother and hopefully thats not the case with you guys. i also feel like i want space. did she go from her parents house strAight to living with you? if so then she might want space because she never had the opurtunity to live on her own (just like me) i enjoy having my own things and decorating how i want but when you live with someone it kind of turns into "us". about the other guys, it seems like maybe she met this person while you were together and maybe that could of influenced her decision in leaving especially if you say she isnt showing any emotions.

I think part of it is that since we have been together since we are so young, she wants to see if there are any other things out there. SHe wants to experience new things. I don't think she has been talking to any other guys or has met any others, but I'm not 100%. Her sister says that she is just tired of waiting. Tired of waiting for me to change, everything. I understand my faults now

Its amazing how getting dumped makes us see the error of our ways and motivates us wanting to change, but in reality, only a fool falls for that "I will change " routine. You didn't while you had the chance and won't now. Why? Because all you want is another chance, and fail to see that she has grown, and changed herself while you were working and relaxing.

If you are serious, then you leave her alone, and let her do her thing, and you do what you have to, to get a thing to do, without her, and see where you both end up later.

Any attempt to convince her you have changed, or deserve another chance, will only compromise your dignity, and self respect, and push her even further away than she is now. Bow out gracefully with mutual respect, and get a life that you enjoy without her.

Well - first of all - it's not all of a sudden. It never is. She hasn't come to you before because she wasn't ready. Now she made her decision and she came to you with it. If you started dating in high school - than it's understandable that she wants to experiment and find out what life is like as a single adult.

I wouldn't blame yourself too much neither. If you're working full time - it's understandable that you're tired and don't want to go out during the week. Not all the time any way. Of course the key would be compromise.

There's really nothing else for you to do but let her go. Keep your dignity - so don't beg (not saying that you would) - it won't help. But don't show anger neither. Time apart might actually be a good thing for both of you... Weather you get back together or stay apart.. Good luck!

Well - first of all - it's not all of a sudden. It never is. She hasn't come to you before because she wasn't ready. Now she made her decision and she came to you with it. If you started dating in high school - than it's understandable that she wants to experiment and find out what life is like as a single adult.

I wouldn't blame yourself too much neither. If you're working full time - it's understandable that you're tired and don't want to go out during the week. Not all the time any way. Of course the key would be compromise.

There's really nothing else for you to do but let her go. Keep your dignity - so don't beg (not saying that you would) - it won't help. But don't show anger neither. Time apart might actually be a good thing for both of you... Weather you get back together or stay apart.. Good luck!
Yes, I understand my faults now. And if she was wanting to work on our relationship, she would have came to me. Our relationship took this turn, and here in the last month it was unhealthy. I had to go by our apartment today to get the last of my things, and tried talking to her. Before I get yelled at, I know it wasn't the smart thing to do, but I was there, and had to try one final time, sort of a final bit of closure for myself. She said that she wants to be single now. I guess she just really wants to experience things alone now, since we spent all of high school together. She said that she couldn't believe me when I say I will change, and that she can't give me another chance right now. She mentioned something, and I can't for the life of me remember what it was now, but she said something along the lines of maybe in the future but not now, and it gave me a glimmer of hope, but I'm not holding my breath. I understand what I need to do, the hard part right now is keeping to it. Now I am starting my no contact period.

Just don't blame yourself... it's not fair for her to blame you for the fact that she wants to be single. It is what it is - and it's no one's fault...

Hi OP this one line or few words in your post really stood out to me these being
" I always did things that annoyed her, she always did things that annoyed me;"

Why they stood out is because I believe there is where your g/f discontend began and yours too for that matter, you had annoyances and yet you didn't speak to her about them or her to you, and as time has gone on you've both built up a wall of resentment, and now its come to bigger issues or annoyances your g/f doesn't or didn't feel she could approach you with them.

It happens all the time some little trivial thing is over looked or not dealt with and from there things just build on it and build on it, and before you know it one person in the relationship says to themselves that's it enough is enough.

Then they say they want a break or some space. Its for this very reason that communication between two people is so vital in a relationship.

If after giving your g/f space or the break she's asked for ends with you getting back with each other, then whatever you do make sure you tell each other when you feel you have a problem, don't try to iron over it, thinking if you ignore it it will go away, because it won't, it will multiply and grow out of all proportion, and eventually it will destroy what you have or had.

Also you're on a break I assume right now, basically what this means in real terms is the relationship is as good as over. So your g/f is free to do as she wants so are you.

You cannot hope to tell her what to do or who to see, not only at this time but ever.

Give her space she might want to re start the relationship, but she might not. If you hassle her or put her under pressure then you may as well pack your bags now because you'll get your marching orders for certain if you do this...

Hi OP this one line or few words in your post really stood out to me these being
" I always did things that annoyed her, she always did things that annoyed me;"

Why they stood out is because I believe there is where your g/f discontend began and yours too for that matter, you had annoyances and yet you didnt speak to her about them or her to you, and as time has gone on youve both built up a wall of resentment, and now its come to bigger issues or annoyances your g/f doesnt or didnt feel she could approach you with them.

It happens all the time some little trivial thing is over looked or not dealt with and from there things just build on it and build on it, and before you know it one person in the relationship says to themselves thats it enough is enough.

Then they say they want a break or some space. Its for this very reason that communication between two people is so vital in a relationship.

If after giving your g/f space or the break shes asked for ends with you getting back with each other, then whatever you do make sure you tell each other when you feel you have a problem, dont try to iron over it, thinking if you ignore it it will go away, because it wont, it will multiply and grow out of all proportion, and eventually it will destroy what you have or had.

Also youre on a break I assume right now, basically what this means in real terms is the relationship is as good as over. So your g/f is free to do as she wants so are you.

You cannot hope to tell her what to do or who to see, not only at this time but ever.

Give her space she might want to re start the relationship, but she might not. If you hassle her or put her under pressure then you may as well pack your bags now because youll get your marching orders for certain if you do this...
Before, if there was a problem (which there was, and those problems led her to wanting out) she never came to me. She just thought about it and one day dumped it on me. She gave up basically. She got tired of waiting. Yes. At this point in time the relationship is as good as over. I tried on several occasions to get her to listen to me, to get her to reconcile, and to get her to give me a last chance because things will be different. Instead she gets annoyed (expected), and she just continues to say she wants to be single and wants her space. Im hoping that if I give her space, she will have a change of heart, but its not looking that positive right now. That is false hope though, something I need not have. Is it worth giving her her space now, and after a month or two contacting her to see if I can slowly wean myself back into her trust, and have a possibility of making the relationship work again? Or should I just wait for her to contact me and if she does, take it from there?

Tala,

I usually agree with most of what you write. However, in my opinion, human beings usually change drastically, and internally when there is a significant loss as a result of their actions. We become introspective, and try to figure out our roles, at least many of us do. So I think that change for the better as a result of being dumped is very much a possibility, however, it may be too late for that relationship.

Tala,

I usually agree with most of what you write. However, in my opinion, human beings usually change drastically, and internally when there is a significant loss as a result of their actions. We become introspective, and try to figure out our roles, at least many of us do. So I think that change for the better as a result of being dumped is very much a possibility, however, it may be too late for that relationship.

I haven't had contact with her for almost 5 days now. It has been killing me. I desperately want to ask her to meet with me, like on a date type thing, so I can slowly start building her trust back up. The last time I tried to reason with her, she just got annoyed because she didn't want to hear it, which was the obvious because she's the one who broke it off. She hasn't made any attempts to contact me, and I just feel like I should try one last time to get her to take me back. I know it sounds foolish, and I know ill probably sound like a fool to her, but I'm just a man in love with her. Everybody keeps telling me to enjoy being single, but honestly, I want her around. Any advice concerning this?

Absolutely not! This is not an issue that can be resolved rationally (convincing) short term. Let's look at the reverse, let's say you lost your attraction for someone, other than that, she is perfect, good manners, treats you right, takes good care of you, little argument, will you be convinced to go back if you felt no attraction for that person? I bet you would not.
This is more of an emotional issue, and rational thoughts, or even facts play a minimal role at this time. Especially since she is been thinking about this issue for a while, it is not sudden thing(it normally is not anyway). You have to let her figure this out, let the emotions subside, and then let her assess this rationally. By talking to her, you are definitely turning her off more. Don't do it, believe me, it will only make it worse.

Absolutely not! This is not an issue that can be resolved rationally (convincing) short term. Let's look at the reverse, let's say you lost your attraction for someone, other than that, she is perfect, good manners, treats you right, takes good care of you, little argument, will you be convinced to go back if you felt no attraction for that person? I bet you would not.
This is more of an emotional issue, and rational thoughts, or even facts play a minimal role at this time. Especially since she is been thinking about this issue for a while, it is not sudden thing(it normally is not anyway). You have to let her figure this out, let the emotions subside, and then let her assess this rationally. By talking to her, you are definitely turning her off more. Don't do it, believe me, it will only make it worse.
I understand what you are saying. I decided not to contact her at all. I have been giving her the space she needs for now. As of right now, I am writing a letter expressing everything I feel. It contains everything I have been thinking. I have been thinking that if I send it to her, it will make her realize things. But like you said, it is up to her to figure it out I guess.

I understand what you are saying. I decided not to contact her at all. I have been giving her the space she needs for now. As of right now, i am writing a letter expressing everything i feel. It contains everything i have been thinking. I have been thinking that if i send it to her, it will make her realize things. But like you said, it is up to her to figure it out i guess.

Hi OP, you cannot make anyone realise something, if they don't see it they just don't see it.

However you can do something to improve yourself, to change yourself so that if not with this girl then in the future any relationships you embark on will be more mutually satisfying, more easy going, more flow in them and less conflict, which has got to be good.

You are doing right with NC but you're writing a letter, that's not NC, you're attempting to contact, so I recommend you write the letter and then you put it away some place or burn it. Instead of telling your ex what you intend to do in the letter, just do it, make those changes now, make them for you that way they'll be made with a positive intention.

Most women and men hear it daily the partner will change it will be better, things will be different. All said by others who only want to get back in favour with their estranged or ex partners.

Ill tell you what happens next, if the other person falls for the spiel then they get back together, yes great you may think, however, there's always a but... and the but here is, but give it say 3 months and the one who claimed they would change would make it different would do things differently, goes right back to being who and what they were before the break in the relationship, they've got what they wanted to get back in favour, and yes they did as they said, until it felt safe again, and as is always the case with these empty promises they go right back to being who they've always been the promises forgotten. Because they didn't mean any of it, it was all just to get back in favour.

Then 6 months or maybe a year down the line they break up again, and this can repeat itself for yonks, but in truth that relationship isn't going anywhere, why because its still broken and will always be broken whilst the people in it fail to fix what went wrong to start with. You're just fooling each other, and trying to iron over the cracks. Fix it first. Or it'll always fail...

Hi OP, you cannot make anyone realise something, if they dont see it they just dont see it.

However you can do something to improve yourself, to change yourself so that if not with this girl then in the future any relationships you embark on will be more mutually satisfying, more easy going, more flow in them and less conflict, which has got to be good.

You are doing right with NC but youre writing a letter, thats not NC, youre attempting to contact, so I recommend you write the letter and then you put it away some place or burn it. Instead of telling your ex what you intend to do in the letter, just do it, make those changes now, make them for you that way theyll be made with a positive intention.

Most women and men hear it daily the partner will change it will be better, things will be different. All said by others who only want to get back in favour with their estranged or ex partners.

Ill tell you what happens next, if the other person falls for the spiel then they get back together, yes great you may think, however, theres always a but... and the but here is, but give it say 3 months and the one who claimed they would change would make it different would do things differently, goes right back to being who and what they were before the break in the relationship, theyve got what they wanted to get back in favour, and yes they did as they said, until it felt safe again, and as is always the case with these empty promises they go right back to being who theyve always been the promises forgotten. Because they didnt mean any of it, it was all just to get back in favour.

Then 6 months or maybe a year down the line they break up again, and this can repeat itself for yonks, but in truth that relationship aint going anywhere, why because its still broken and will always be broken whilst the people in it fail to fix what went wrong to start with. Youre just fooling each other, and trying to iron over the cracks. Fix it first. or itll always fail...

As false as it sounds, I really mean it when I say that I will change. There has been things we have compromised over before, and I am willing to change now. I am willing to make this relationship work at any cost, but she is not. Unfortunately I can't make her believe me. Even now, after 4 days of no contact, I think that even if I sent her an email or a letter, it would most likely just push her farther away.

You have to let her go, she left and probably will not be coming back. That is why it is imperative that you work on yourself and get to know the real you again. Writing a letter is a good idea but DO NOT send it!! It will allow you to get your emotions on the table and see where you went wrong so that you may correct it in the future.

Once a girl says she needs space, 98% of the time that means its over. It didn't happen all of a sudden. She was feeling this way long before she told you. She doesn't feel any emotion because she already made up her mind a long time ago. That is why you really have no choice but to move on and try and better yourself. False hope is not healthy.

Its up to her to come back to you but don't wait around, you will only drive yourself bonkers wondering what she is thinking. You may not see it now but everything happeens for a reason so look at this as a blessing in disguise. 5 years is a long time but would you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone like this? You dated in high school so she may want to go see if the grass is greener and it may be; for both of you.

Good luck and take care of yourself man!

You have to let her go, she left and probably will not be coming back. That is why it is imperative that you work on yourself and get to know the real you again. writing a letter is a good idea but DO NOT send it!!! It will allow you to get your emotions on the table and see where you went wrong so that you may correct it in the future.

Once a girl says she needs space, 98% of the time that means its over. It didnt happen all of a sudden. she was feeling this way long before she told you. She doesnt feel any emotion because she already made up her mind a long time ago. That is why you really have no choice but to move on and try and better yourself. False hope is not healthy.

Its up to her to come back to you but dont wait around, you will only drive yourself bonkers wondering what she is thinking. You may not see it now but everything happeens for a reason so look at this as a blessing in disguise. 5 years is a long time but would you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone like this? You dated in highschool so she may want to go see if the grass is greener and it may be; for both of you.

Good luck and take care of yourself man!

I know she wants to see if things are better being single, but is there an amount of time it will take for her to realize things and talk to me? I know she has to let some of her emotions settle, but she hasn't really given me any real strong answers yet, they have just been kind of vague like "i need my space". Is it possible that she doesn't think she should tell me because she is no longer my business?

Hi Again OP,
As strange as it may seem your ex may not even know for sure herself why she's ended it with you, it could be that she just knows or feels that she no longer wants to be in a relationship with you, something wasn't right and perhaps she herself can't figure out what it is.

Maybe she will in time figure it out, assuming she's not sure herself, and maybe when or if she does she`ll tell you.

Don't bank on it though, and you have to just accept that the relationship is over, and for all intents and purposes its over for good.

You have only been in NC for a few days you need to give it more time, concentrate on you, go out keep busy stop deliberating on why, just be happy you had the time together, and let it be.

In truth you're time together has run its course.

Hi Again OP,
As strange as it may seem your ex may not even know for sure herself why shes ended it with you, it could be that she just knows or feels that she no longer wants to be in a relationship with you, something wasnt right and perhaps she herself can't figure out what it is.

Maybe she will in time figure it out, assuming shes not sure herself, and maybe when or if she does she`ll tell you.

Dont bank on it though, and you have to just accept that the relationship is over, and for all intents and purposes its over for good.

You have only been in NC for a few days you need to give it more time, concentrate on you, go out keep busy stop deliberating on why, just be happy you had the time together, and let it be.

In truth youre time together has run its course.

I do believe she is a little unsure of this, even though I've heard that she had been thinking about this for a month, which shows her lack of emotion. I have been trying to come to terms that our relationship is over, but I keep giving myself false hope, and I know that is no good. I know that I need to give her the space she wants, and that could mean months without talking to her. Its just hard seeing how I've talked to her everyday for 5 years, and how she's just not there. Its like my best friend is gone.

I have been trying to get out more. Ive reconnected with some old friends and have been hanging out with them a lot. Ive been partying some, I've been doing a lot of things to help get my mind off things. But I still find down time to where I can just think to myself. I know its not healthy, but that's the sad reality of my situation. Everyday I tell myself that I'm going to give her her space, and that she will want me back. But I relapse.

Hi again,
What you're experiencing is perfectly normal, you cannot spend 5 years of your life with a person and not miss them, and their role in your life.

A Relationship ending is in many ways similar to a loss by death, and in many ways it is just that,however instead of it being a physical literal death it's the death of the relationship, and you will go through a period similar to that of mourning.

You will have down days and you'll also have good days.

I won't tell you it'll be easy it won't, your whole world has changed, your outlook will be changing to, now you are having to learn how to function as a single person a Me and not a We, and that's not easy you'll miss the company the banter between a couple, you'll miss many aspects of the relationship, and it will at times feel as if you'll go mad on your own.

This is why its recommended you get out and mix with others as much as possible, do you have friends you could ask to help you by being like a support team, for when you are feeling really down, ask them if they would mind you phoning them at these times, Your family could also help you in this way.

Im sure if you asked your friends and family they would be happy to help you in this.

Could you take up a hobby or do some voluntary work.

Perhaps you could vamp up your home somehow, you could make changes to yourself physically, like change your hairstyle. Or your mode of dress.

If you're feeling really depressed, try to go out for a walk, day or night, this will help you, just go to a park and look around at nature, and see how beautiful she is.

Go out star gazing, could you go to visit a relative who lives in another area, maybe take a holiday, or take a holiday and take your Mum with you.

Spend time with friends and family, but try to keep the subject off the ex, listen to upbeat music. Learn to play a musical instrument.

Check the forum stickies for more ideas you could put to use.

Come here anytime you feel you need to vent or post updates for us, because we here care about you and how you're doing. We will be here for you at anytime.

So always know you're not alone. Were here and we care...

Hi again,
what youre experiencing is perfectly normal, you cannot spend 5 years of your life with a person and not miss them, and their role in your life.

A Relationship ending is in many ways similar to a loss by death, and in many ways it is just that,however instead of it being a physical literal death its the death of the relationship, and you will go through a period similar to that of mourning.

You will have down days and youll also have good days.

I wont tell you itll be easy it wont, your whole world has changed, your outlook will be changing to, now you are having to learn how to function as a single person a Me and not a We, and thats not easy youll miss the company the banter between a couple, youll miss many aspects of the relationship, and it will at times feel as if youll go mad on your own.

This is why its recommended you get out and mix with others as much as possible, do you have friends you could ask to help you by being like a support team, for when you are feeling really down, ask them if they would mind you phoning them at these times, Your family could also help you in this way.

Im sure if you asked your friends and family they would be happy to help you in this.

Could you take up a hobby or do some voluntary work.

Perhaps you could vamp up your home somehow, you could make changes to yourself physically, like change your hairstyle. or your mode of dress.

If youre feeling really depressed, try to go out for a walk, day or night, this will help you, just go to a park and look around at nature, and see how beautiful she is.

Go out star gazing, could you go to visit a relative who lives in another area, maybe take a holiday, or take a holiday and take your Mum with you.

Spend time with friends and family, but try to keep the subject off the ex, listen to upbeat music. learn to play a musical instrument.

Check the forum stickies for more ideas you could put to use.

Come here anytime you feel you need to vent or post updates for us, because we here care about you and how youre doing. We will be here for you at anytime.

So always know youre not alone. Were here and we care...

I have been hanging out with friends a lot more, and they have given me plenty of advice. This week I am actually flying out of town for the first time to visit friends. My ex always tried to get me to fly with her to visit her family down south, so I feel like I owe it to myself to try and fly now, even if its not with her.

I do miss a lot of things about her, mainly being the relationship. That's why I tried so hard a few times to get her back. Its just hard to know that she is done, and had been for at least a month. And for right now I can only expect the worst (that she won't have a change of heart and come back), and hope for the best.

I have been hanging out with friends alot more, and they have given me plenty of advice. This week i am actually flying out of town for the first time to visit friends. My ex always tried to get me to fly with her to visit her family down south, so i feel like i owe it to myself to try and fly now, even if its not with her.

I do miss alot of things about her, mainly being the relationship. Thats why i tried so hard a few times to get her back. Its just hard to know that she is done, and had been for at least a month. And for right now i can only expect the worst (that she wont have a change of heart and come back), and hope for the best.

I understand how you feel in this and how you would have liked a 2nd chance, who knows you may get one, in time, once your ex has had time to process what gone on, I am not wanting to build your hopes up though.

The relationship is over, so now all you can do is what you're doing now, and taking a trip out of town seems like a good idea, Im sure you'll enjoy yourself.

Also don't forget what I said in a previous post, you can come to this site anytime, and someone will be here to help you through any really tough times you may have.

This will pass and life will be good for you again. I assure you of this. You're doing the right thing, and you will heal.

I understand how you feel in this and how you would have liked a 2nd chance, who knows you may get one, in time, once your ex has had time to process what gone on, I am not wanting to build your hopes up though.

The relationship is over, so now all you can do is what youre doing now, and taking a trip out of town seems like a good idea, Im sure youll enjoy yourself.

Also dont forget what I said in a previous post, you can come to this site anytime, and someone will be here to help you through any really tough times you may have.

This will pass and life will be good for you again. I assure you of this. Youre doing the right thing, and you will heal.
Even though she was the one who broke it off, and the one who had been thinking about this, is she really thinking about this is as much as I am? She seems to be moving on, happy with things now, and like I said earlier she's not showing much emotion.

So in time will things settle down in her mind and will she process things through, even if it means not wanting to get back together? It just seems as though she isn't thinking about it and is genuinly moving on.

You should have started your own moving on 10 seconds after you got dumped. Sorry, but that's a lot of false hope you have after she already told you what she wants.

I guarantee she is glad to be single and will stay that way until something catches her dating interests.

Chances are she has been wanting this a long time, so while your still a bit shocked by the change, she has dealt with all those tough feelings already.

Now its your turn. Sucks I know.

You should have started your own moving on 10 seconds after you got dumped. Sorry, but thats a lot of false hope you have after she already told you what she wants.

I guarantee she is glad to be single and will stay that way until something catches her dating interests.

Chances are she has been wanting this a long time, so while your still a bit shocked by the change, she has dealt with all those tough feelings already.

Now its your turn. Sucks I know.

You are right. It would have been impossible for me to have started moving on so quick though. Im starting to finally pick myself up some though. You are right when you say she has been wanting this for a while, I've heard she has been pondering this for a month. So that's obviously why she isn't showing much emotion.

Im not sure if she is happily single, she acts like it. But I don't know what she is feeling deep down. False hope though, its gotten me through the last few days. I need to stop it.

You admit that for 5 years you were not the boyfriend you should have been. Even to where you were mean.

Think about this. This was not a sudden decision on her part, it has been building for 5 years. And as tal said, she has dealt with the feelings and is moving on.

Time to move on and hopefully learn that you should never take anything for granted, and be sure you are doing your part.

Communication could have prevented this. Make it a key part of future relationships.

You admit that for 5 years you were not the boyfriend you should have been. Even to where you were mean.

Think about this. This was not a sudden decision on her part, it has been building for 5 years. And as tal said, she has dealt with the feelings and is moving on.

Time to move on and hopefully learn that you should never take anything for granted, and be sure you are doing your part.

Communication could have prevented this. Make it a key part of future relationships.

It's a shame how I took things for granted. I could have done a lot, but she could have done a lot also by communicating her feelings to me more.

So I have a minor update. Its not really an update, but something that happened.

Yesterday I posted on Facebook that I was thinking about going back to school. Later on last night she posted a comment that said "I wish you the best of luck."

This comment has been messing with my mind. I did not answer back to it, keep in mind. To me, I'm taking it as a farewell type thing, meaning good luck I don't plan on talking to you in the future. What do you guys think it means?

So I have an update, and it makes me sick. I found out today that my ex is in another relationship already! She apparently started dating this dude this past weekend. So I, like an idiot, confronted her about it. She said that she didn't start talking to him until after we broke up. I find it amazing because she told me that she wanted to be single, she wanted to find herself, and that she didn't want a relationship right now, but she already has a rebound! What should I think about this. Before anybody says "move on" or anything, I am trying. This is just really hard. What should I expect with her rebound relationship? Obviously she doesn't think that the dude is telling her everything she wants to hear to get that one thing. How do rebound relationships normally plan out?

How do rebound relationships normally plan out?

They last about a month or two and fail... on average... It's just using someone to not feel lonely

Forget this girl... I know exactly how you feel, and I'm a huge hypocrite as I'm still dwelling on my own experience (I wish they would unlock my thread after they merged it so I can get some help too :( )...

Even though its none of your business, you recently found out basically that she is a liar, she lied to you... Even though she'd be thinking about it for a little while... at the end of the day, she did indeed lie to you... She's with another guy already, rebound or not, that's your cue to stop thinking about this broad... She's not worth a second in your daily thought process... I honestly don't understand how people go from being in long-term relationships to being with anyone so soon after, even if it is only a fling or a rebound relationship, some people are cold hearted and soulless though. Just keep it moving...

Forget this girl... I know exactly how you feel, and I'm a huge hypocrite as I'm still dwelling on my own experience (I wish they would unlock my thread after they merged it so I can get some help too :( )...

Even though its none of your business, you recently found out basically that she is a liar, she lied to you... Even though she'd be thinking about it for a little while... at the end of the day, she did indeed lie to you... She's with another guy already, rebound or not, thats your cue to stop thinking about this broad... She's not worth a second in your daily thought process... I honestly don't understand how people go from being in long-term relationships to being with anyone so soon after, even if it is only a fling or a rebound relationship, some people are cold hearted and soulless though. Just keep it moving...

You are right. Seeing this now, she isn't the person I thought she was. Even after 5 years, this is not how she acted EVER before. I don't understand how she would want to go into another relationship either. I asked her about it: she stated that one of her reasons for leaving me was that she didn't want to be in a relationship. So I asked her why she was in another one so soon, and she replied "i dont have to explain myself to you". Its so weird how she could even be in a rebound so quick, even though she broke up with me. Like everyone else has said though, she has been thinking about this for a while. Its amazing how women don't realize that once they become single, guys will tell them what they want to hear to get that one thing. And I'm almost positive this is what's happening. I don't think I could ever take her back.

Your not supposed to take her back, nor confront her, nor wonder what's going on. You are forgetting the main thing here and that's the fact she dumped you and the reasons don't matter.

Sure she wants to be single from YOU, but that also means "free to explore other options". Whether it's a rebound or not, its her business what she does after she dumps you. Right, or wrong, and as MBIMD, said she obviously was not the honest innocent flower you thought.

All you focus on is healing, and moving on yourself.

Your not supposed to take her back, nor confront her, nor wonder whats going on. You are forgetting the main thing here and thats the fact she dumped you and the reasons don't matter.

Sure she wants to be single from YOU, but that also means "free to explore other options". Whether its a rebound or not, its her business what she does after she dumps you. Right, or wrong, and as MBIMD, said she obviously was not the honest innocent flower you thought.

All you focus on is healing, and moving on yourself.

Well I confronted her because I was so mad that she jumped into another relationship after lying to me saying she didn't want another relationship with anybody. I don't think I could take her back now. I want her to come back to me so I can tell her to get lost, for my own satisfaction. Its still hard though, no matter what anybody says.

You are right. Seeing this now, she isnt the person i thought she was. Even after 5 years, this is not how she acted EVER before. I dont understand how she would want to go into another relationship either. i asked her about it: she stated that one of her reasons for leaving me was that she didnt want to be in a relationship. So i asked her why she was in another one so soon, and she replied "i dont have to explain myself to you". Its so weird how she could even be in a rebound so quick, even though she broke up with me. Like everyone else has said though, she has been thinking about this for a while. Its amazing how women dont realize that once they become single, guys will tell them what they want to hear to get that one thing. And im almost positive this is whats happening. I dont think i could ever take her back.

Hi OP, I am sorry youve had to find out that your ex is in another relationship so soon, I can only assume that this compounds the hurts you feel.
However if you stick with the NC rules you wont find out anything more about your ex, thats why its so imperitive you stick to the rules. Its really for your own sake and sense of well being that you stick with the NC rules. Until you do youll keep relapsing and the more you do so the more itll hurt you.

Hi OP, I am sorry youve had to find out that your ex is in another relationship so soon, I can only assume that this compounds the hurts you feel.
However if you stick with the NC rules you wont find out anything more about your ex, thats why its so imperitive you stick to the rules. Its really for your own sake and sense of well being that you stick with the NC rules. Until you do youll keep relapsing and the more you do so the more itll hurt you.

I plan on not having any more contact with her. Its hard. Can anyone explain why she got into another relationship so quick? I know that I was part of it. But why would she rebound so quick? So that she wouldn't be alone?

I plan on not having any more contact with her. Its hard. Can anyone explain why she got into another relationship so quick? I know that i was part of it. But why would she rebound so quick? So that she wouldnt be alone?

This could possibly be the reason, however whatever her reasons theyre not really of your concern, dont torture yourself over it, its something youre never going to know sorry..

This could possibly be the reason, however whatever her reasons theyre not really of your concern, dont torture yourself over it, its something youre never going to know sorry..

Yeah, I guess your right.

Your asking us to read her mind and guess at her motives and we can't but my experience tells me she has been thinking this way for a long time and when she got ready, or was sure about her decision, then she told you.

This happens a lot, and its better than being cheated on.

Rsa, this dimension of your personality is a lot like mine. You have to know the answer to the why questions? It is killing you, does it not? You have to have the answer, and if it is not forthcoming in any rational framework, someone out there must know! You have some ideas why, but you want reconfirmation. I am a very analytical person, almost to the point of paralysis-analysis. It is hard for us to accept that there are basic questions with no answer sometimes. In this case, she may not know an exact answer either, or may be she does, but she is unwilling to tell you. You got to let it go, I know it is hard brother, but you got to let go of the whys, or it will put you in depression. You have to accept that sometimes only time can provide illumination, and answer, and sometimes even time may not be enough.

rsa, this dimension of your personality is a lot like mine. You have to know the answer to the why questions? it is killing you, does it not? you have to have the answer, and if it is not forthcoming in any rational framework, someone out there must know! You have some ideas why, but you want reconfirmation. I am a very analytical person, almost to the point of paralysis-analysis. It is hard for us to accept that there are basic questions with no answer sometimes. In this case, she may not know an exact answer either, or may be she does, but she is unwilling to tell you. You got to let it go, I know it is hard brother, but you got to let go of the whys, or it will put you in depression. You have to accept that sometimes only time can provide illumination, and answer, and sometimes even time may not be enough.

You are very correct. And yes, I am the type of individual who likes to be enlightened.

Wow. This just got ugly. She had her new boyfriend text me. He called me out on stuff. But imo, totally uncalled for and totally immature on her part. I definitely over this now.

Called you out on what stuff? Had you been contacting her? Maybe she didn't have him do it, maybe he is a creep and is marking his territory, regardless leave this alone.

This girl, who has been your girl since she was what 14 has grown up and wants to see what's out there. I think dating some one that young and for that long really keeps you from experiencing dating and hanging out and having fun. You get too wrapped up in one person and that is not healthy.
This may be the first of many dates for her, she is dating, see what's out there. You should be doing the same.
Leave it all alone and get out yourself.

Called you out on what stuff? Had you been contacting her? Maybe she didn't have him do it, maybe he is a creep and is marking his territory, regardless leave this alone.

This girl, who has been your girl since she was what 14 has grown up and wants to see what's out there. I think dating some one that young and for that long really keeps you from experiencing dating and hanging out and having fun. You get too wrapped up in one person and that is not healthy.
This may be the first of many dates for her, she is dating, see what's out there. You should be doing the same.
Leave it all alone and get out yourself.

Yes, I contacted her this morning when I found out, big mistake I know. Regardless, she was with him and he text me and called me out saying leave her alone, if you hadn't messed up maybe she would still like you, if you came around it'll get physical, watch what you say, etc etc. I will be leaving this alone from now on. I don't want any problems, and its not worth it arguing and fighting over a girl.

Well you need to stop contacting her. What she does is none of your business and you have no right. She is with someone else, has moved on.
Leave her alone. I know you are hurting but in time you will find that you too have changed and want to know what's out there.

Change your number and don't contact her again. It will save you headaches, believe me.

Change your number and dont contact her again. It will save you headaches, believe me.

Trust me. There will be no more contact with her. She is not the same girl I knew a month ago. She changed so fast, and its sad. After 5 years I don't even recognize her anymore. I had a lot of good advice. I stuck with some of it, but I broke the NC rules. I kind of paid for it. But then again, I'm glad things turned out this way because it gives me the extra incentive to get over her.

Amazing how people change isn't it? Almost seems like it happens overnight. You will be fine IF you stick to NC. I had a couple of setbacks in my breakup (mostly because we own a house together) but I solved that and haven't had to talk to her for months now and each day gets better. I still think about the ex sometimes and you will too but you have to stay busy and learn to file those memories in a virtual box somewhere in the back of your mind.

Come here as much as you want. It helped me knowing I was not alone and neither are you! Cheers buddy! Enjoy being single. While you can.

Where do I start?

You need to let go of saying she shows no emotion. She was showing emotion wanting to hang out with you and spend time out as a couple. She was showing she wanted you by her side. You work full time, big deal. She was in college full time also. You don't think that's tiring? Work or work you still need to spend time together. You seemed to have gotten in the work and sit home cycle and she saw it and wanted to break it. I also seeing her showing emotion because she did think of the break off for a month. If this is true she was full of emotion struggling with her choices. I am sure she had feelings for you and didn't want to hurt you. I am sure it was hurting her inside also.

If she was acting all happy single then she was happy.

I think you both started dating young. You even said yourself you pushed your friends aside to be together. Maybe her going to college opened her eyes. She made friends and matured in a way that made her realize everything she did lose out on in high school. I can tell you right now if she had not split with you now it was bound to happen one day.

She is not a bad person for dating someone after telling you she wanted to be single. At this point its not your business what she does. She is living life. What if she is the one telling him what he wants to hear to get what she wants from him? Don't make him out to be a bad buy just because she chose to date him. That was her choice. If she wasn't ready she could have said no. For all you know he never knew about you when he asked her out. You can feel jealous all you want be this guy isn't the blame for anything. You need to realize that.

I wish you luck. Its hard. As someone said it is like a death. But you still have the chance to come alive again!

One more thought. I don't think she instantly changed. I think she matured and grew a bit. Dating a 14 year old girl is not like dating a 21 year old. Look back and I am sure you can see how you both have evolved.

If anything I say good for her for being strong enough to make the choice. She didn't stay put and have doubts the rest of her life and marry and have kids because she was to afraid to walk away. She grew and felt it was time. Not that there is better out there but that she knew what she needed.

One more thought. I dont think she instantly changed. I think she matured and grew a bit. Dating a 14 year old girl is not like dating a 21 year old. Look back and I am sure you can see how you both have evolved.

If anything I say good for her for being strong enough to make the choice. She didnt stay put and have doubts the rest of her life and marry and have kids because she was to afraid to walk away. She grew and felt it was time. Not that there is better out there but that she knew what she needed.

Everyone is correct. Im sure she was trying, but I just had turned a blind eye because we both were doing the same old routines. It is very obvious how she matured. The part that still gets me is that only a month and a half ago SHE was pressuring me into buying a house. That's right, a house! I think that maybe she realized she was pushing this too quickly, and maybe she scaared herself. So she obviously changed very quickly, and that doesn't add up to me. And I figured that since we had been together for so long, the mature thing would have been to take the relationship farther. But like you said, being together so long made us both miss out and we both matured. The part that hurts is that she had been thinking about this for a month or longer, and kept all her emotion inside, and never came to me. It also hurts that she told me she didn't want a relationship with anybody, but she is in another one so soon, rebound or not. But, she was at a breaking point with everything, so she did the right thing. And I'm glad that she did it now, and got it over with. Ill be sticking to the NC rules, I have nothing else to say to her. Its actually getting easier already. Ive been thinking of all the things that bothered me with her, and that's helping to ease my mind also.

I think she cheated on you with him, before you broke up. She felt the grass was greener on the other side. She jumped, and now we know what will happen. The guy just wants sex and that's it. She will be crying to you in a few months. Just wait, if you want, but that's up to you. I think you could get some very good help on this site. I know it sounds bad, but read some about breakups and how the girls go back after a few months. This happens a lot in collage.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/

I think she cheated on you with him, before you broke up. She felt the grass was greener on the other side. She jumped, and now we know what will happen. The guy just wants sex and that's it. She will be crying to you in a few months. Just wait, if you want, but that's up to you. I think you could get some very good help on this site. I know it sounds bad, but read some about breakups and how the girls go back after a few months. This happens a lot in collage.

Coping with Infidelity (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/)

Does anybody else think this is a possibility? I have a hard time believing this for a few reasons: she never acted funny, and she said that she met him after we broke up. But then again, I can't really believe anything she says. I know that the dude most likely wants sex, and I'm sure he will get what he wants and will leave after a few months. Even though the breakup was her decision, and she was at a breaking point, and everything else, does anybody else think that she will come back in a few months? Not that I will ever take her back now, does anybody else think she cheated and will come back?

Why do you need to know if she is coming back?

Why do you need to know if she is coming back?

Its not that I am anticipating it or wanting her to come back, it was just a question based on what the previous poster said.

Does anybody else think this is a possibility? I have a hard time believing this for a few reasons: she never acted funny, and she said that she met him after we broke up. But then again, i can't really believe anything she says. I know that the dude most likely wants sex, and im sure he will get what he wants and will leave after a few months. Even though the breakup was her decision, and she was at a breaking point, and everything else, does anybody else think that she will come back in a few months? Not that i will ever take her back now, does anybody else think she cheated and will come back?
I don't think so. She may have met him and was attracted to him, there is nothing wrong with being attracted to someone. She broke up with you, that was the right thing for her to do, for her.
I can understand her wanting out. She has been with you since she was 14. She is seeing there is another world out there and other people and she wants to experience it.

If this guy wants her just for sex (assuming she gives it to him) then she will have experienced something and learned from it. That's kind of what life is about. You live and learn.
Instead of looking for things to run her in the ground, you might want to drop all if this and get on with your life as well.
She has grown up and left you behind. That happens quite often with relationships that start with young teens.

If she cheated and if she is coming back to you doesn't really matter now. Pesonally I don't think she cheated. She is probably getting out more like you said and someone caught her interest. So be it. Stay with NC and stop wondering all the "what ifs". Thinking on all those are just going to run you down.

So I have some major news. Apparently my ex is pregnant now. Apparently she is 5 weeks along, and we were still together 5 weeks ago. She seems to think that the baby is her new bfs. Which if that is the case, she was cheating on me 5 weeks ago.

Here's my delimma. We had sex without condoms, and I never pulled out because she was on the pill. We did it like that for years. So is it possible that it could even be his that quickly? I mean, we were still having sex right up until we broke up. It's a 50/50 chance right now, and I'm going to venture to say she doesn't know exactly who the daddy is. If she quit taking the pill right after we broke up, could she have gotten pregnant that fast?

You don't need to quit taking the pill to get pregnant. You can get pregnant on the pill. Simple as that.

Yes you can be pregnant that fast because I was. I went off my pill the middle of October and was pregnant so after. Less then two months later.

It's not likely that she got pregnant what a day after she got of the pill?
I don't know, but people can sure make a mess of their lives.
Is she sure she is pregnant?

It's not likely that she got pregnant what a day after she got of the pill?
I don't know, but people can sure make a mess of their lives.
Is she sure she is pregnant?
She made a mess of her life really fast, if she is pregnant. When I was moving my stuff out of the apartment I noticed a packet of her birth control, and it had been 4 or 5 days since she had last taken it. And that was 3 weeks ago. Im not 100% sure if she is sure she is pregnant.


If the child turns out to be mine, how would I go about making a relationship work with her?

Wait and see! You can't speculate on what she's going to do.

Wait and see! You can't speculate on what she's going to do.

You are correct, but with the way she is acting I just feel like she wouldn't give the chance. But then again, it is a 50/50 on who's it could be at this point, if she is for sure pregnant. Apparently she is only about 5 weeks along. And we were still together 5 weeks ago. My parents told me to stay quiet and don't contact her, just to wait for her to contact me if she turns out to be pregnant.

You are correct, but with the way she is acting i just feel like she wouldnt give the chance. But then again, it is a 50/50 on whos it could be at this point, if she is for sure pregnant. Apparently she is only about 5 weeks along. And we were still together 5 weeks ago. My parents told me to stay quiet and dont contact her, just to wait for her to contact me if she turns out to be pregnant.

Very good advice from your parents.. Maybe they should join AMHD.
Take the advice:)

Wow. I was seriously leaps and bounds over this, but this has set me back.

I don't think you were over it, but this is an added dimension that you will have to face if true.
Where did you hear this from?

I don't think you were over it, but this is an added dimension that you will have to face if true.
Where did you here this from?

I heard it from a friend. Doesn't sound too reliable I know, but I can believe it. Its going to be really hard to try and stay silent about this, because I obvioiusly need to know the truth. And along with this, I really think that she was cheating on me.

What kind of friend would tell you something like that.
It gets me when people don't keep their nose out of other's business and want to tell you something under the guise of friendship.
What else makes you think she was cheating?

I wouldn't put too much stock in hearsay. You'll know soon enough. Tell your friend to butt out.

Don't even worry about it unless she says its yours, to your face. Then its up to a blood test.

You don't make a big deal about gossip, rumors, or innuendo.

What kind of friend would tell you something like that.
It gets me when people don't keep their nose out of other's business and want to tell you something under the guise of friendship.
What eles makes you think she was cheating?

My friend works with her older sister. So he heard it from her. My friend also said that they think it's the new dudes. I say she was cheating because if its his, and she's 5 weeks along, that coincides with a time we were still together.

I know I shouldn't worry about it unless I know that its mine. But its still hard to hear that a girl that I loved, moved on, and is already pregnant. I know I've been replaced, but it seems to hurt so much more than that. Another part that hurts is that there's a chance that it could be mine and could be his.

So this is second third party gossip.
Your friend should have minded his own business and kept his mouth shut.
At any rate you won't know anything until or unless she says something to you.
If she is not and all of this was a misunderstanding, this is just one more thing to trip you up.
Tell your friends to keep their mouths shut.
That is not a friend. That is just tacky. I wonder how many other friends your friend has told this to.

So this is second third party gossip.
Your friend should have minded his own business and kept his mouth shut.
At any rate you won't know anything until or unless she says something to you.
If she is not and all of this was a misunderstanding, this is just one more thing to trip you up.
Tell your friends to keep their mouths shut.
That is not a friend. That is just tacky. I wonder how many other friends your friend has told this to.

Yeah. It is definitely a difficult situation because of all the uncertainty. I know I have to just stick to the NC rules and hope she contacts me with the truth.

There may not be any truth to contact you with. She could not be pregnant at all and if she is, she could be 4 weeks, in which case, (I know it would hurt) her pregnancy would be none of your business.
You need to have a talk with your friend. Tell him you don't want to hear anything else.

There may not be any truth to contact you with. She could not be pregnant at all and if she is, she could be 4 weeks, in which case, (I know it would hurt) her pregnancy would be none of your business.
You need to have a talk with your friend. Tell him you don't want to hear anything else.

Well he said that she was around 5 weeks along. And we were together at that point still. So I feel like it is some of my business because I am unsure who's child it really is, if she is even pregnant like you said.

He also said she was pregnant. That could be wrong just like the number of weeks.
Of course what you could do is just tell her you have heard a rumor and you want to know if it is true. That may open a can of worms but you would know.
You friend really did you a this service.

Her also said she was pregnant. That could be wrong just like the number of weeks.
Of course what you could do is just tell her you have heard a rumor and you want to know if it is true. That may open a can of worms but you would know.
You friend really did you a dis service.

Yeah. I think ill try and tough it out and see if I hear anything else. If I do, then maybe ill try to contact her about it. I may just wait and see if she contacts me, but like you said earlier, that may never happen.

So in the meantime you worry? That's no good!

So in the meantime you worry? Thats no good!

Unfortunately, I am somewhat worried about it. But I shouldn't be because there is no proof of anything 100%. It'll stay in the back of my mind, but ill work my way around it for now.

Hi , I am going through the exact thing that you are , I was with my girlfriend for 5 years , we were a really good couple , we fought hardly ever, even a week before she said , I need space we went to las vegas , stayed in a hotel snuggled and has sex and we watched movies and had a great time. A week later she said that she didn't want to be with me , but she's been thinking about leaving me for a while , I bagged and cried and freaked out asking why why why, all she said was that she needed space, I couldn't believe this ****, I asked her what did I do what did I do and she said nothing, I just need space, she blocked me on Facebook and started going out lots with her friends, we also have a child together I wrote her a 3 page note that I'm getting my mom to read to her because I'm so ****ing desperate, but I have been giving her her space, my mom just talks to her now, I really don't want to lose her, I know she's the one , I just want my family back and I want her back, **** why do girls have to be so ****ing retarded and say I NEED SPACE, LIKE **** WE WERE IN A FAMILY FOR 5 YEARS AND SHE LED ME ON JUST TO ****ING SAY I NEED SPACE, LIKE ****! I KNOW IM FREAKIN OUT ON HERE< BUT I WAS NEVER LIKE THIS AROUND HER, IM JUST SO LOST CONFUESED ANGRY AND SAD THAT SHE WOULD DO THIS, LIKE WHY WOULD U WANT TO PUT SOME ONE U LOVE THROUGH SO MUCH PAIN?