My girlfriend broke up with me 5 weeks ago. The relationship lasted 3 years, at various stages she needed her space and said she felt claustrophobic. I duly gave her space and we got back together each time, usually after a couple of days I have often felt unloved at various times in the relationship, I could feel her pushing me away due to this claustrophobic feeling that built up in her.

We knew each other before we met up, here is the complicated bit! We were both married, her ex husband and my ex wife had a child together. I had separated from my wife and her husband left her with 3 children. After about 4 months of her husband leaving her we got together. There was no infidelity here, nor are we related, honest! 

During the 3 years we both went through divorce, her's much more amicable than mine, I went to court on many occasions over finance and finally for a court order for regular access to my son. We always supported each other throughout and very rarely argued.

We never lived together fully, I would stay 3-4 nights at her house sleeping over and most other nights there but not sleep over so it would not affect her benefits from the government..
So to the fateful Day 5 weeks ago where she tells me that she needs a proper break, obviously I am gutted but accept her wishes. She says she loves me but enough to commit to me and that it wasn't fair what she was doing to me. I have been through many emotions over the last 5 weeks, the loss of what I saw as a family, my son and hers were best friends and have known each other all of there lives, and generally the loss of what I saw as my life.

Now I can get over her I know I can and that takes time, however she doesn't seem to be able to let go of me properly. I have been round on say 5 or 6 occasions to her to see her children as I miss them very much, I take my son there so that he can see her children. I got to a point where I could only see it causing hurt to everybody, she would cry, I would leave feeling like crap and her children would want me to stay longer. I told her that I couldn't do it anymore and that I wanted it to stop for the reasons just outlined. She continued to text and I relented convincing myself I would be OK with in time and that it was best that my son could continue to see his best friend.

We have flights booked to all go on holiday in July, we haven't decided if we should go yet, I do have the option (which she is unaware of) to change the names and go with members of my family instead. I asked her the other day on the phone if she was dating anybody else, she said that she had been asked to go out for a drink and that she was considering it, she said she liked the attention and felt flattered by it. I was calm and said if that is what you want to do that is fine. She then texted the next day saying that she wasn't ready for a relationship with anyone, so I assume she declined the offer.

She still texts but seems to love the control of dropping the conversation and leaving it until the next day. I have asked her why she texts and her answer was because she cannot let go of me fully and that she worries for me and the children. So basically I get very mixed signals, or perhaps I just read it that way!

My problem is that I can get over her and move on with time but I will feel guilty with NC because of the children. Any comments and help would be appreciated. Thanks and sorry for the long post.

Could you arrange days when you could drop the kids off and pick them up without seeing her?

She could do the same. Drop the children off at your place and pick them up without having to see you.

Kikat22

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately that would always mean some form of contact, i.e. texting to arrange etc. We both haveother comittments with out children and time so it could never be a fixed time on a fixed day really.

As a side issue, I assume from my initial post that she keeps me hanging on as a backup plan, in case she decides she made a mistake and later regrets her decision.

Kikat22

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately that would always mean some form of contact, ie texting to arrange etc. We both haveother comittments with out children and time so it could never be a fixed time on a fixed day really.

As a side issue, I assume from my initial post that she keeps me hanging on as a backup plan, incase she decides she made a mistake and later regrets her decision.








Don't let her do that to you. Maybe it would be better to have a liaison to handle the children visiting. If it doesn't work as sad as it is you may have to give up seeing those poor children. Your child will be hurt also but in time maybe you'll see it's the best way.

If there is no future with this woman... then eventually you'll move on and your child and hers will also have to move on. It is a terrible thing for children to lose someone they love, but if you can find someone who will arrange the visitation for both of you.. then try it. You won't have to see her or talk to her and vice versa. Good Luck

I think that maybe for my sanity that I should just cut ties completely, but at this time I do not feel strong enough to do it. As you say it is hard for the children but after all they are not my children, although I treated them all like my own.

I know that she is unhappy and not sleeping and also drinking quite a lot and has said that at times she has resented the children since our split. She is also undertaking a counselling and psychotherapy course which I believe messes with her head. She is confused and says that she is lost but at no point has said she was wrong in her decision. She just texted me again... after leaving texts for 24 hours, am I OK? I think I know what I need to do but also find it hard to let go too.

I'm curious, how old are the kids?

4, 7, 9

My son is 9

What makes you so curious?

Well, if they're old enough to use the phone, they could call and talk to each other just the same way friends do. When I was younger my friends and I would call each other and ask if the other person would like to play. Then it was up to us to ask the parents if that was OK. You know what I mean? It wouldn't be the end of the world if the kids didn't see each other anymore, although it would be hard for them. Kids always make new friends, but if you're concerned about them being able to spend time together, you shouldn't have to talk to your ex. Let the kids put in the effort.

Thank you for your response ZoeMarie

Well as my son doesn't live with me and also there respective ages, I do not think it would be practical and we would always end up getting involved.

I just replied to her latest text asking if I was OK, by simply saying I am fine thanks, and her reply was I may as well have just said F*** Off! 1st ever crossed words since our split.

Wow. Yeah, maybe it's best just to cut all ties.

Are the ex's still involved with each other (besides being parents)? If so that takes care of the children aspect of the relationship.

You don't owe her anything including updates on how you are doing. Cut all ties with her and her children. Give yourself time to heal and then, when you are ready, to find someone who doesn't have any ties to your past.

Well it was a bit naughty of me, I would usually at least ask how she was as well! I guess if you push someone away then she should expect to get pushed back a little herself from time to time. Yes I know it was a little childish, but a drop in the ocean to the feeling of loss I feel.

Are the ex's still involved with each other (besides being parents)? If so that takes care of the children aspect of the relationship.

You don't owe her anything including updates on how you are doing. Cut all ties with her and her children. Give yourself time to heal and then, when you are ready, to find someone who doesn't have any ties to your past.

Not quite sure what you mean re: ex's involved with each other? Her ex husband still see's her 3 children. My ex wife has custody of my son.

You are prob right that I don't owe her anything, My problem is I am too soft and that is something I have to sort out for the future. I guess I put myself in this weak position time and time again.

Are the ex's still involved with each other (besides being parents)? If so that takes care of the children aspect of the relationship.

You don't owe her anything including updates on how you are doing. Cut all ties with her and her children. Give yourself time to heal and then, when you are ready, to find someone who doesn't have any ties to your past.

Ah maybe I know what you mean. The ex's are not involved with each other, they had a child together who is now 19 years old, so a long time ago.

Ah maybe I know what you mean. The ex's are not involved with each other, they had a child together who is now 19 years old, so a long time ago.

I was confused on the timeline.

It's tough, but I think you would be better off to go NC and try to move on without her.

Healing from a breakup is hard enough, but when you continue texting and calling it just makes it almost impossible to completely break away from.

Cat1864

No worries I get confused myself with who's who to who!

Devorameira

So I should just accept it's over, get out of denial, forget the children's friendships and my own bonds with them and go NC. I guess the chances of her in reality coming back and all of a sudden saying she loves me to bits, can commit to me and actually being the case are quite minimal.

It's obvious that you know the relationship is really over.

It's always tough when there are children involved. If you could have someone do the arranging, then maybe you could have someone pick up her kids and bring them to your house to visit occasionally. At least that way you'd avoid the contact.

When a relationship comes to an end, it doesn't necessarily mean that each party handles the emotions and aftermath in the same way.

Perhaps she really is concerned about you, just as a human being, and she too does not want to see the friendships between the children come to an end, and I agree with that. Why should the kids pay.

It is easy to see mixed emotions come from all angles, and all the people involved. Maybe it is time to simplify things and put a few boundaries in place, so that everyone is comfortble.

When you have visitation with your son, arrange a play date, either at your home, or her home, for a specific amount of hours. Switch each time, and other than saying hello and goodbye, I see no reason why you have to stick around. Tell the other children when they want you to stay, that you have errands to run.

It may take her longer than you to cut ties emotionally, but I get the impression that she thinks the relationship is also over. So let that part be, and let it go. Try not to wonder if what she says means more than just a friendly hello.

If the goal is for the sake of the children, concentrate on that, and don't stick around while her emotions are so close to the surface.

As to the trip, be straight up about that, and suggest it might be a good idea for you to substitute family members. Don't wait for her to decide what to do, and should she decide to go, that puts everyone in a position of compromising- most likely beyond their comfort levels.

Be cordial and polite, but be careful not to get back into thinking there may be a future here. Consider it over, except for the children's sake.

Devorameira & Jake2008

Thank you for your advice. It has taken me some time and a lot of pain to realise that things are more than likely over between us. For me things in relationships are very black and white, either I want to be with someone or I don't. Whilst she has made it clear that she does not want a relationship with me, she should just leave me alone at least enough time for me heal my wounds and then consider the children. It would appear she see's me as an emotional crutch, telling me of her poor state of mind, her general problems, whilst at the same time more than likely texting the replacement! I find it quite sad and selfish that someone can act in this way. I will sort out the holiday issue with her, I know she will become very upset, as will she with the no contact/boundaries.

With regards to the children I cannot really see it working out long term anyway, she will meet someone new as will I, I very much doubt that any new partner would take to the situation very well, seeing as there are no blood lines involved here.

All of you should be in No Contact, to heal, and move on to the next great adventure. Its hard, but will get better.

I have to spread some rep talaniman but I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I think you should break ties all around. It will eventually get better for you and the kids. Tell her to stop calling and texting.
End it completely.

Thank you for your replies. An update:

I got a call today whilst I was on my home from picking my son up from school. I returned the call and it was her son on the phone asking of he could see my son, he is used to seeing him on Wednesday as that is my contact time. I said that we were having a bbq but would try and fit a quick visit in.

Well I duly went up after the bbq and dropped my son off, I said that I would leave him there as it thought was best. She looked hurt but said OK.

I returned to pick my son up and felt the need to explain to her where I was in my mind and also explain my not staying whilst my son was there. I explained that in order for me to heal properly etc that I could not be in contact with her as it was damaging my recovery and that I couildn't pretend we were a family anymore as it was clearly not the case after our break up. I said that I have no problem in letting the contact between our children to continue. I also said that she obviously see's me as emotional crutch and her contacting me was not only about the best for the children, I said her actions were selfish. She agreed with everything I said and said she understood,

I have been feeling pretty positive for the last couple of days and in a position where I accepted the fact we were together no more, I told her this.

She subsequently broke down and said that she was a mess and unable to sleep, think etc. She had tried to get over me but was unable to, going out etc when she could.

She said she loves me and was so scared she had made the wrong decision, and wanted her mind to be back where it was when we were together BUT was afraid of hurting me again and that she can see me with someone else being very happy and that the thought of this is tearing her apart.

After a reasonably long discussion of how bad she feels and her state of mind I felt sorry for her of course. I asked if she thinks she is depressed (she has been on medication once previously during our relationship), she said that she thinks she is and that she cannot face going to the doctor.

I told her that she must and that if she wanted to talk to me at anytime about it that I would always listen to her, I emphasised that me listening would be for the right reason i.e. not to use at as a way to get her back, I do really mean that. I am incredibly worried for her present state of mind and for her children.

I did intend to tell her that I could not go on our planned holiday together but felt at this point it would destroy her.

I still feel OK in myself, I am not moping around and kind of had an inkling that she was at this crisis point anyway, although she tried to discguise it.

As I feel strong in myself still, I feel that maybe I can help her in some way if only by listening to her. I still realise that at this point out relationship is over, however I am not the type of person to kick somebody when they need help and support, especially when children are involved.

Thank you for your replies. An update:

I got a call today whilst I was on my home from picking my son up from school. I returned the call and it was her son on the phone asking of he could see my son, he is used to seeing him on wednesday as that is my contact time. I said that we were having a bbq but would try and fit a quick visit in.

Well I duly went up after the bbq and dropped my son off, I said that I would leave him there as it thought was best. She looked hurt but said ok.

I returned to pick my son up and felt the need to explain to her where I was in my mind and also explain my not staying whilst my son was there. I explained that in order for me to heal properly etc that I could not be in contact with her as it was damaging my recovery and that I couildn't pretend we were a family anymore as it was clearly not the case after our break up. I said that I have no problem in letting the contact between our children to continue. I also said that she obviously see's me as emotional crutch and her contacting me was not only about the best for the children, I said her actions were selfish. She agreed with everything I said and said she understood,

I have been feeling pretty positive for the last couple of days and in a position where I accepted the fact we were together no more, I told her this.

She subsequently broke down and said that she was a mess and unable to sleep, think etc. She had tried to get over me but was unable to, going out etc when she could.

She said she loves me and was so scared she had made the wrong decision, and wanted her mind to be back where it was when we were together BUT was afraid of hurting me again and that she can see me with someone else being very happy and that the thought of this is tearing her apart.

After a reasonably long discussion of how bad she feels and her state of mind I felt sorry for her of course. I asked if she thinks she is depressed (she has been on medication once previously during our relationship), she said that she thinks she is and that she cannot face going to the doctor.

I told her that she must and that if she wanted to talk to me at anytime about it that I would always listen to her, I emphasised that me listening would be for the right reason ie not to use at as a way to get her back, I do really mean that. I am incredibly worried for her present state of mind and for her children.

I did intend to tell her that I could not go on our planned holiday together but felt at this point it would destroy her.

I still feel ok in myself, I am not moping around and kind of had an inkling that she was at this crisis point anyway, although she tried to discguise it.

As I feel strong in myself still, I feel that maybe I can help her in some way if only by listening to her. I still realise that at this point out relationship is over, however I am not the type of person to kick somebody when they need help and support, especially when children are involved.

The only way you can help her is by making her see a doctor. If she doesn't try to help herself, then you don't have a chance at helping her yourself. Do you still love this woman?

Kitkat22

That is a fair point about seeing a doctor, I asked her 3 weeks ago in text to promise to see one, her reply was 'we shall see'. I guess at this point she thought could get herself under control.

As for loving her, yes of course I do, I can't just flick a switch and turn my love off after 5 weeks. I suppose the strength that I display may come across as not loving her anymore. When in fact has come from family and friends, and doing new things with friends I had lost contact with and are in fact some of the best friends one could ever wish for.

kitkat22

That is a fair point about seeing a doctor, I asked her 3 weeks ago in text to promise to see one, her reply was 'we shall see'. I guess at this point she thought could get herself under control.

As for loving her, yes of course I do, I can't just flick a switch and turn my love off after 5 weeks. I suppose the strength that I display may come across as not loving her anymore. When in fact has come from family and friends, and doing new things with friends I had lost contact with and are in fact some of the best friends one could ever wish for.

I know what you mean about friends. I still am best friends with my High school friends and that was many years ago. How do your friends feel about her and does it matter how they feel?

I'm not being cynical, I just wish your relationship with this woman was
Worth saving. Love is a horrible thing sometimes... I truly think you can love and hate someone at the same time. Do you ever feel that way?
I think about your child and hers and think.. it's sad.. but if she is making your life miserable... you have to think of your own child and yourself first.

I hope you keep posting and I also hope you find peace in this situation. I know you have a good heart and it's been broken. Blessings

Thank for your reply once again, I shall continue my best to keep posting updates, not too often I am not obsessive! well I don't think I am!

My friends that know here think that she is a nice, funny, lovely warm person and that it's a shame that we broke up. My family said the same at the time of the break, although now think that she has 'issues' and will always probably have them. They all of course want me to be happy and my family in patricular hate to see me upset and hurt, I show my feelings more to them. It does of course matter to me how they feel considering the great support they have given me, family and spending time with my family/girlfriend in a comfortable atmosphere is a must.

I felt some hate towards her at the weekend, I had been out drinking and returned home with these thoughts. Although woke up feeling better, my friends of course told me this was not the way to feel about her, but they understood, that's from what I remember anyway!

My relationship with my son did suffer for a short while, I was tense with him and unable to think clearly. All is well now, I do realise he has to come 1st, crikey I spent three years trying to get increased/defined contact with him.

She is no longer making me feel miserable, something changed within me over the last 4 days. I cannot try and tell you that I am completely in control over my feelings for her, but I am a million miles away from where I was 5 weeks ago.

I guess that's the question is the relationship worth saving, at this point I am not sure, do I need/want someone who on the positive side will need so much time and support and 'may' work out, or alternatively someone who will screw with my head forever if I let it go on ad infinitum.

You have to be very direct, and be busy, and unavailable to them all. Sorry guy, but until you get healing, and contact will only add to the confusion, misery, and pain. You can want to be there and help her, but you are not qualified, and she has to deal with her own issues. Its tough now, but you never know how much better things will be after a proper healing, and I mean that by all of you.

Thank for your reply once again, I shall continue my best to keep posting updates, not too often I am not obsessive!, well i don't think I am!

My friends that know here think that she is a nice, funny, lovely warm person and that it's a shame that we broke up. My family said the same at the time of the break, although now think that she has 'issues' and will always probably have them. They all of course want me to be happy and my family in patricular hate to see me upset and hurt, I show my feelings more to them. It does of course matter to me how they feel considering the great support they have given me, family and spending time with my family/girlfriend in a comfortable atmosphere is a must.

I felt some hate towards her at the weekend, i had been out drinking and returned home with these thoughts. although woke up feeling better, my friends of course told me this was not the way to feel about her, but they understood, that's from what I remember anyway!

My relationship with my son did suffer for a short while, I was tense with him and unable to think clearly. All is well now, I do realise he has to come 1st, crikey i spent three years trying to get increased/defined contact with him.

She is no longer making me feel miserable, something changed within me over the last 4 days. I cannot try and tell you that I am completely in control over my feelings for her, but I am a million miles away from where I was 5 weeks ago.

I guess that's the question is the relationship worth saving, at this point I am not sure, do I need/want someone who on the positive side will need so much time and support and 'may' work out, or alternatively someone who will screw with my head forever if I let it go on ad infinitum.




What you need is to keep feeling as you do now. You are happier and you must have regained some of yourself confidence. It isn't up to you to make her happy if it makes you and your son miserable. I think in time there will be another woman in your life and you'll know it. Just don't fall into the trap of a rebound relationship.. they rarely work.

You cherish that little boy, I can detect that when you speak of him. That's very wonderful you have such a good relationship with him. I just know you're going to get over this and you need too. You are well on your way. Your son will be there when no one is. When you get lonely just think of the things you have to be thankful for. This relationship with your son will keep you afloat and so will your friends and family. Don't get drawn back in if you are sure you don't want to be with her and I honestly think the reason your eyes are open about her is because you are relieved to be out of such a toxic relationship.

Don't feel guilty... you have no reason to feel that! Good Luck

talaniman

So in essence walk away?

Kitkat22

Yes I think you are right, I have regained myself confidence. I of course love my son to bits and indeed have a great relationship with him, I appreciate you saying that he will be of great comfort to me.

I have wondered if my strength has come from reflection upon the relationship and it's toxicity, I am not quite in touch with my view of it enough to see it that way, or maybe I mask it foolishly in my mind.

As for a new woman, I am done with them, es! Seriously I am only joking. I am no doubt I could find somebody else that would make me happier, we had a LOT of truly great, funny, special moments and went through so much together. However I have to accept it's over and that it was just another cycle in my life.

I do feel guilty, I know I shouldn't. I am not responsible for the way she is.

It's all such a shame, but I guess it's the reality of life.

Kitkat22

Yes I think you are right, I have regained my self confidence. I of course love my son to bits and indeed have a great relationship with him, I appreciate you saying that he will be of great comfort to me.

I have wondered if my strength has come from reflection upon the relationship and it's toxicity, I am not quite in touch with my view of it enough to see it that way, or maybe I mask it foolishly in my mind.

As for a new woman, I am done with them, es! Seriously I am only joking. I am no doubt I could find somebody else that would make me happier, we had a LOT of truly great, funny, special moments and went through so much together. However I have to accept it's over and that it was just another cycle in my life.

I do feel guilty, I know I shouldn't. I am not responsible for the way she is.

It's all such a shame, but I guess it's the reality of life.




No you are not to blame and you shouldn't feel guilty, even though it is part of a process. Remember the happy times and who knows what will happen down the road. Don't put your life on hold... be happy and God Bless you and that precious little boy.

Well here is a little update:

She still continues to text and I continue to reply, yes I am a fool maybe!

She asked to see me to talk about the holiday we had planned. She said that we should go away still and that the children deserve it, oh and also that it may just get us back together. I thought at this point she was laying on the guilt, oh and trying to instill some false hope.

Hmmm I thought, so I said that it wouldn't help anybody if we went. At this point she said you may as well leave then, Which I did after about 10minutes. Her manner was very different from when she broke down the evening before, kind of emotionless, cold and distant. I pointed this out to her and she said all she was trying to do was cope.

Anyway I have left it there for now, she still continues to text and erm I continue to reply, silly me I keep getting drawn back in.

As for how I feel, I am OK, eating well, sleeping well, and going to the gym, seeing friends etc, oh and not upset anymore, but still taking the bait :eek:

Well.. seems as though she is having a hard time letting go. How do you feel about no contact at all?

In another post someone said if it is over... then your children have to accept that sooner or later.

I think ,since you are happy and you're getting your life back together that should tell you something.

Do you or have you ever thought of marriage with this woman? I honestly think you were both going through a horrible time and you found solace in that.

Two divorces... neither of you were at fault.. both of your spouses cheated your wife with her husband.

Comforting each other turned into more than friendship and now you are over the pain of the divorce. She probably is too.

She is afraid to be alone and maybe that's why she keeps wanting you back. You are stronger.

I wish and hope after all is said and done you can remain friends and so can your children.

I think I would ask her not to text or call you anymore. It will be hard to do that but she needs to learn to stand on her own two feet.

She is scared because there has always been a man in her life. Only an opinion but I did think about this yesterday and I hope it helps... Blessings... Kit

Thank you for your response Kitkat22.

I just need to clarify one point here, not that it makes a huge difference.

Neither of us were cheated on in our marriages. My ex wife and her ex husband had a child 19 years ago. The split in our respective marriages was nothing to do with the two of them being together, far from it!

I am a little tainted from marriage and so is she, I believe we were both in agreement that there was no immediate need for marriage, our respective marriages only officially ended mid last year.

I have asked her if her not getting me out of her head is just simply the loneliness of me not being there, she says not and that she has occupied herself and still cannot stop thinking about me, but maybe it is more the security of me being around and that she feels vulnerable without me.

The no contact bothers me for some reason, I cannot quite sort out in my mind if it truly for the love of the children or if I still want it to be right between us, I suspect it is a bit of both if I am honest. So that puts me at this moment in time in the same place as her, i.e. not being able to quite let go. Whilst I do think about her it does not drive me insane nor does it make me sad, honest! The family aspect is however painful.

Maybe you are correct that her attachment is simply because she is scared to be on her own, after all she did end the relationship and I am sure she did not do that lightly, she would have thought it through for some time and at no point has she been knocking my door down begging forgiveness and saying we should be together forever.

I know that she is a very needy person and in my opinion she attracts needy friends that can be quite transient, she has something about her that can attract friends easily but they never seem long term devout friends, odd really. Anyway not quite sure why I added that bit.

Not sure where this will end, but My head tells me it won't be with the two of us together forever :)

She says she loves me but enough to commit to me and that it wasn’t fair what she was doing to me. I have been through many emotions over the last 5 weeks, the loss of what I saw as a family,

I think when you both have had time to cope with whatever feelings that have you confused as to what you want from each other, then maybe friendship can be possible. But no one knows how long that will take, no one. Its only been 5 weeks so hang in there.

It takes time. Both of you are trying to get the other out of your systems.
It takes longer for one person than another, but it will happen.
I think both of you know that you are not right for each other but it does not make it any easier to let go.

Thank you for the replies.

She called me by 'accident' on Friday Evening, it was a short conversation. We continued to text after that through Saturday, culminating in me spending most of yesterday with her and all of the children. I asked if she was still confused about things as she seemed to be a brighter in herself, she said that we should both look to move on from this, I was fine and excepted that, no dramatics or hysterics.

I stayed a while longer and then left with my son as we had to be elsewhere. She started crying as we left.

I am still OK about all of this and have maybe realised as somebody has already pointed out I probably started to see that the relationship as it was, was 'toxic'. I think I had started to pity her and think that as she is, she will never be able to give what the other wants in a relationship unless she changes in some way significantly. It's sad to think of someone whom will probably never be able to give and commit there love to another.

I have just read another post on here that sums it up rather well.

"Sometimes to a person who is so needy, the relationship is very much one sided in that, they are not in a position to offer of themselves, what they have come to accept, and expect from you."

The relationship was of course one sided and she controlled and manipulated to suit her needs, I am just sorry that I allowed that to go on. I guess she is emotionally damaged from her split/divorce, we got together only 4 months after she had separated from a 12 year marriage, too early!

Tired.. Good Morning.. Do you know what strikes me the most about you? You are very honest in the way you feel about this situation. That's very good.

I do agree with Talinaman.. Maybe someday you can be friends and it's good you have come to the conclusion there will be no marriage for you two.

It's as homegirl said.. it sometimes takes one longer than the other to get a relationship out of their system.

I do think you're doing the right thing. You are being a gentleman
About this and that's very good of you.

It's time to move on. You two will gradually drift further and further apart and you will finally be able to say; It's over and I don't have any reason to feel guilty.

You seem to have a very good head on your shoulders, but I will warn you of this. Even though your children are close and want to spend time together, DO NOt let her manipulate you by using this as an excuse to keep this going.

My thoughs and prayers are with both of you and your children..
Good Luck and please, let us know how things turn out... Kit

Kitkat22

Once again thank you for your words, oh and especially the kind ones too!

My realisation of how things were came from reading various things on the internet, the advice on here for instance and also what she says herself. I think she knows that she has issues with relationships now, she is so mad with herself that she can't make that leap in commitment, although in this instance it would now need a lot more than that.

I do not think that she will let things drift, too many lonely nights with too much wine to hand! :D Unless she meets someone else but that same cycle will repeat unless she can change, I think she needs to be alone for some time in order to do that.

It's all weird really when I look at it, how I was on the edge for some weeks and now feel fine & that I still see her.

It does make me sad still for the children but I am in a place where I can cope with that contact, I don't see it as a major issue.

I think what will make that difference in us moving further apart is me maybe distancing myself more and more, or one of us meeting someone else. I am in no rush right now, although I have my urges :) Sorry but you said honesty is the best policy!

This is the reason many of us stress not getting into another relationship so soon after one has ended, especially if it ended badly. If you know someone who is just coming out of a relationship, they are vulnerable, leave them alone. You aren't doing them any favors.

Homegirl 50

The comment re:urges was very much tongue in cheek. I have other things to sort out in life 1st anyway and they do not revolve around the ex.

I was not referring to the "urges" comment. I was making a general comment about becoming involved with someone who has recently left a relationship.

Well I agree wholeheartedly with your general comment.

Think I have learnt that one the hard way, i.e. my comment about getting together too early after her split from marriage, 3 months split from a 12 year marriage.

You seem to be doing quite well. She has problems with control and stability, but you also enabled that by staying with her for three years.
She will move on in time just as you have and hopefully she will learn things about herself and improve things that will help her in the future.

Well yes I am doing OK thank you. You are correct that I did indeed enable that behaviour, takes two to make or break a relationship. I do accept that and have to look at my role within the relationship as it was.

The more I reflect back on her, I am realising more and more issues that she has and I think sadly that she will always suffer. With that said I am not making her an icon of hate, she is such a lovely, warm, funny person in so many ways, just with plenty of baggage.

Well she may not always suffer so let's not even speak that. She may come out of this a better person. Lets speak positive in her life.
We all have baggage

I see you are a gentleman... you have said some very nice things about her. I guess I myself get so used to hearing bad comments about an ex.. it's nice to see someone who doesn't blame the other for the relationship.

You'll do fine.. I'm betting on that. God Bless You and your little sweet boy... Kit

Now you can deal with YOUR issues, whatever they are, and not be distracted by HER issues.

Kitka22

Yes I think I will be fine thanks :)

She is carrying so much guilt at the moment, bless her. It's her birthday today, I did drop a card round when I knew she would be out. Nothing special just a humorous card from my son and I. She texted to say thank you, a couple of more texts later to each other (nothing heavy) I left it at that. I feel at some point in the near future I will tell her that I now understand the decision she made and why she made it. It wouldn't be to hurt her or make her feel like crap, I will be empathetic and hopefully ease some of her guilt. Maybe in the long term future we could be friends, I simply don't know, as you know that takes time!


talaniman

Yes indeed. There is some working out to do there, I mean for me. I am not quite sure why I put up with her lack of commitment for quite so long (infact I would still be there now), and continued to give her everything... too much in fact.

I have been self employed for some time now and have let things slip, in all honesty I have lacked motivation and drive for some time. I have decided to pursue there career I had previous to becoming self employed.

I am not depressed or unhappy, in fact my cup is always half full! I just need to sort out the above and probably a little more.

Anyway, thank you all very much for input here, I do appreciate it.

Just a little update:

I texted yesterday asking if she was OK and said that I understand now why she ended the relationship and that she shouldn't feel guilty for doing so. I texted as I know she finds it very upsetting talking about it.

She replied and asked some questions about what I was saying and said it was difficult to do by text but she finds it too painful to actually talk face to face about it and that she feels desperately sad and wants to feel differently but can't.

I explained that I thought it was a one sided relationship, I felt we got together too soon after her marriage split and that she made the right decision and once again to try not to feel guilty.

She sent a long text explaining that she feels her relationships in the past have been difficult because she was never in them as a proper adult, her husband did everything and that left her powerless then I came along, saved her and she didn't have to function again fully. She relied on me emotionally it was more than helping out here and there.

She said she loves me but not completely for the right reasons, and that she could be with me quite easily but she has to stop history repeating itself and needs to feel that she can function in her own right and that she can't do that with me, I end up feeling rejected whilst she struggles with her emotions.

She went on to say that I am great and lovely and she misses me but can't be with me and that she has to stay strong in her decision although she finds it very very tough.

I replied and basically said I understand and that I couldn't go back now to how things were/are, although I of course love her and the children and miss them all.

We texted some more light hearted stuff and things seem OK between us, which I see as a good thing of course. Whether we can be friends in the long run I simply don't know, but certainly not right now, it wouldn't be good for either of us.

I am glad that we had the text converastion and hopefully she feels the same way too. I am OK and accepting of the situation, Whilst I still think about her quite a lot, that big hole and the ensuing pain is no longer there :)

Just a little update:

I texted yesterday asking if she was ok and said that I understand now why she ended the relationship and that she shouldn't feel guilty for doing so. I texted as I know she finds it very upsetting talking about it.

She replied and asked some questions about what I was saying and said it was difficult to do by text but she finds it too painful to actually talk face to face about it and that she feels desperately sad and wants to feel differently but can't.

I explained that I thought it was a one sided relationship, I felt we got together too soon after her marriage split and that she made the right decision and once again to try not to feel guilty.

She sent a long text explaining that she feels her relationships in the past have been difficult because she was never in them as a proper adult, her husband did everything and that left her powerless then I came along, saved her and she didn't have to function again fully. She relied on me emotionally it was more than helping out here and there.

She said she loves me but not completely for the right reasons, and that she could be with me quite easily but she has to stop history repeating itself and needs to feel that she can function in her own right and that she can't do that with me, I end up feeling rejected whilst she struggles with her emotions.

She went on to say that I am great and lovely and she misses me but can't be with me and that she has to stay strong in her decision although she finds it very very tough.

I replied and basically said I understand and that I couldn't go back now to how things were/are, although I of course love her and the children and miss them all.

We texted some more light hearted stuff and things seem ok between us, which I see as a good thing of course. Whether we can be friends in the long run I simply don't know, but certainly not right now, it wouldn't be good for either of us.

I am glad that we had the text converastion and hopefully she feels the same way too. I am ok and accepting of the situation, Whilst I still think about her quite a lot, that big hole and the ensuing pain is no longer there :)

Good for you and blessings!

Thank you Kitkat22.

We have always communicated quite well, although there were obviously these underlying problems which remained under the surface and were not talked through, shame really. I do not propose it would have saved the relationship, rather ended it earlier!

Well I didn't have such a great day yesterday, just felt a bit down generally. No contact at all with her and then 8AM this morning a text, asking if I was OK and if I could get money back for flights I had paid for.

I replied saying I can get the money back no problem as they have changed the times both ways, which they have. Anyway after a couple more texts she once again apologises for the breakup and says she would like to best friends and to go on holiday but knows it probably wouldn't be possible now.

I said I couldn't be best friends in fact not even friends with her as it would be just too painfull for all those involved. I don't want to know who she is seeing and vice versa.

I think after that text she will now leave me alone. I believe it is best all round for everyone that we do not see each other anymore, there is simply too many emotions involved, I think we are both moving on, as hard as we both find it.

Yep, that s probably best.
And no more texting either!

Homegirl 50

Yes I think you are correct with regard to texting, as difficult as I am going to find it to not reply if she texts in one of her needy moments.

Yep, that s probably best.
No texting anymore either.




You're doing the right thing! Have a great weekend.:)

Well here I am again with my blog.

So she texts after midnight Friday eve, how did job interview go for me and she had just won a keyboard in a raffle whilst out.

I ignored the text, so predictably she texts again yesterday to ask if I got it. I say no and she just asks about my job interview. I reply and we leave things there.

So I wake up this morning at 5AM and cannot get back to sleep, Oh and silly me decides to drive by hers, she only lives a mile away, oh and see a car outside her house. I am no stalker and it is the 1st time ever I have done such a thing, honest! I just had an inkling she was seeing someone. Yes I know damn well it is not my business, but curiosity and all that.

So like a fool I text her and ask her, on the basis that she made me promise to tell her if I was seeing somebody else. After a few texts she says she has been seeing someone this weekend, she doesn't want to fall out with me, she has done nothing wrong and just trying to get on with life.

I reply saying OK, but you said a week ago or so you didn't want a relationship with anyone and now you appear to be in one, actions speak louder than words. Also said I wished she had left me alone after our split and she cannot seem to do that.

So she calls me in tears, saying it is not what I think, he did stop there but nothing went on. She really cares for me and doesn't want me out of her life, for instance she wanted to tell me about her great night out on Friday, I said she she tell her new man about it all and not me, why me!

I said I want no contact anymore as it is damaging me and setting me back and once again I cannot be her friend, maybe one day in the distant future when I care no more who she is seeing. I also apologised for the drive by her house. She was very upset by it all and I feel bad for my behaviour, I should know better. Whilst at the same time she should not keep contacting me.

Anyway I sent her an email setting out exactly why I need no contact with her at all, and that it would help her too. I also said it was none of my business what she was up to, but it is the contact that is making me not able to let go of her and I am OK and she starts contact again, which just puts me back. She replied saying thank you for the email, I am correct what I am saying and that she will reply in full tomorrow.

Oh dear what a mess I have made here with my actions. Anyway looks like we are now finally in a proper no contact situation. When oh when will I learn.

No you're not, because she will respond to your e-mail and you will respond back.

No matter what she says in her response, leave it alone. Ignore any text phone calls... Leave it all alone. She has moved on, It's time you do. For real this time.

I will not respond to her email. If she has moved on, they why the hell can she just not leave me alone? For instance talk to her new interest about her night out and not me?

Is it just she is familiar talking to me and just finds it hard to break the habit? I suppose I could try and analyse all day, like you say I need to move on and properly let go.

It has been 3 years and it is probably hard for her too. She is familiar with you. She may even be concerned for you.
But you have been told many times, if you ignore her calls and texts, they will eventually stop.
So I'm telling you again, ignore her and she will stop.

Homegirl 50

You are correct, I MUST ignore her. I have just read through this whole thread again from the start. At points I have been OK, only to be drawn back in once more with contact. So no contact it must be!

Hang in there young man. The longer you go with NC and stick with it, the less the pain. You will get through this.

Thanks :) I know I will be OK in the long run.

I am just cut up right now, i.e. Why does she say all this BS? I love you, I miss you, Can't get you out of my head, I could so easily be with you, Maybe if we go on holiday things will be OK. Next minute she has another interest, quite cruel in my opinion.

I know that no contact will see me through and I will stop thinking of her constantly, I just find it odd/weird behaviour.

If you think about it, she is going through the same yo-yo feelings you are, she is just moving on.
Women tend do be more vocal about their feelings so she is telling you how she feels. NC is probably hard for her too but this is about you and helping you cope.
NC is the key.

If you think about it, she is going through the same yo-yo feelings you are, she is just moving on.
Women tend do be more vocal about their feelings so she is telling you how she feels. NC is probably hard for her too but this is about you and helping you cope.
NC is the key.

Yes I am sure she is on a yoyo, just not my yoyo! :)

I guess her actions are what says it all, rather than her words. Still bizarre though, when I enter into my next relationship there is no way I would still be texting the ex habitually. Think I would soon to be told where to get off, unless I did it secretly of course, what a great relationship that would make!

Men and women handle things differently. But the point is she is in the moving on stage, so you need to go full NC and move one yourself. Stop trying to figure her out.

Hi Tired10,

I think the initial problem was with both of your divorces.

You had both been with your then wife/husband for a period,also there were children to be considered, which makes the whole situation very complicated and much more painful.

There were only a few months in between all of these complications and upsets before you both decided to become a couple.

Sometimes this can work, but on average most people need time and space to come to terms with their divorce and all the trauma that this brings.

Once this has passed they can then feel free to move on with their lives.

However, guilt can be an enormous factor for some people after divorce, despite who's to blame,showing it's self in various different ways, loss of appetite, sleeping problems, depression and all of it's highs and lows.

I think there is a lot of self doubt, from both of you, which is understandable, you will each deal with it in your own way, eventually coming through the other side ready to move on.

This is a very sad situation, especially for the children, I know, having read through this entire thread that everyone is telling you to move on, I disagree...

I feel she loves you and you obviously love her, despite the aggro.I can see that she gives mixed messages, regarding going out and so on, I feel that is just her putting on a face if you like,in an up spell, what ever way you wish to phraze it,typical of depression.

I can see that whilst you talk of her texting etc.. annoying you not allowing you to move on, you feel sad and down if you haven't heard from her.

I think you should meet with the children as usual, treat each other with respect and honesty you all deserve, enjoy each others company, take things as they come, let it develop naturally with no pressure from either side and you never know what the out come may be once the pressure is off.

What ever you decide I wish you luck.

Hi Tired10,

I think the initial problem was with both of your divorces.

You had both been with your then wife/husband for a period of time,also there were children to be considered, which makes the whole situation very complicated and much more painful.

There were only a few months in between all of these complications and upsets before you both decided to become a couple.

Sometimes this can work, but on average most people need time and space to come to terms with their divorce and all the trauma that this brings.

Once this has passed they can then feel free to move on with their lives.

However, guilt can be an enormous factor for some people after divorce, despite who's to blame,showing it's self in various different ways, loss of appetite, sleeping problems, depression and all of it's highs and lows.

I think there is a lot of self doubt, from both of you, which is understandable, you will each deal with it in your own way, eventually coming through the other side ready to move on.

This is a very sad situation, especially for the children, i know, having read through this entire thread that everyone is telling you to move on, i disagree...

I feel she loves you and you obviously love her, despite the aggro.I can see that she gives mixed messages, regarding going out and so on, i feel that is just her putting on a face if you like,in an up spell, what ever way you wish to phraze it,typical of depression.

I can see that whilst you talk of her texting etc..annoying you not allowing you to move on, you feel sad and down if you haven't heard from her.

I think you should meet with the children as usual, treat each other with respect and honesty you all deserve, enjoy each others company, take things as they come, let it develope naturally with no pressure from either side and you never know what the out come may be once the pressure is off.

What ever you decide i wish you luck.

Thank you for your reply Orphan.

I truly think there is no future, I do love her and of that she is no doubt about. She says she loves blah blah etc, however a happy relationship that does not necessarily make. I told her again today that I probably never felt truly loved in the relationship and whilst I probably want to still be with her I could not go back to how things were. She knows she cannot give me that (although dearly wishes she could) and has also said that her initial offer of a drink from a man she was going to accept so that she could test her feelings for me!

If the children wish to see each other then maybe I can accommodate that in the nearer future, however I will not be engaging visiting her.

I feel that me saying that she made the right decision and also that I couldn't go back to how things were made her entertain her new interest, I know I know it would have happened at some point anyway, just an observation.

I guess my point of view now is that I am not prepared to feel like I have been doing for the sake of a failed relationship with a woman who clearly has emotional difficulties. Right now I feel that there is nothing we can work with anyway, if and that's a big IF she comes to me and says she wants me back and we need to work on x.y and z then I would consider it. I know that is very unlikely and also unlikely to work, so I will not hold out for that.

She is obviously looking to fill a whole with her new interest as I was tempted to do and then realised it would not be the way forward for me.

I guess as hard as it will be for me that NC is the way forward, after all she made her conscious choice over a period (I could feel her pulling away), she disreguarded what was a great happy family and still continues wth her decision to this day, whilst probably still doubts her decision I admit. She never even tried to discuss how she felt before she wanted the 'break', she knows how approachable I would have been.

It is all too painfull all round, and for me I think the way forward is to leave her be, I couldn't continue to see her and be normal anyway, I think I would end up a basket case in time!

Anyway sorry all a bit random that, just my random thoughts at this moment in time.

Thank you for your advice orphan. It's such a shame for all of us, but sadly I see no reconciliation.

Oh yes and I am a caring, honest, open affectionate, generous, loyal loving partner who deserves better than this, she knows this, has said this and still remains steadfast. Just not meant to be I guess! :)

Oh yes and I am a caring, honest, open affectionate, generous, loyal loving partner who deserves better than this, she knows this, has said this and still remains steadfast. Just not meant to be I guess! :)

Don't take it personally.
You two are just not a match. The sooner you come to grips with that, you will be able to move on.

I think she is think correct of course :) I do not think I have low self esteem as such although I must admit my confidence has been knocked somewhat.

My marriage was abusive, her towards me, pyschological and physical at times. My ex wife obviously knew the now ex girtlfriend, hence used my son as a possession to beat me with as a punishment with regards to access. Hence a court order for access was required in the end.

My ex wife entrapped me after I left the marital home and became pregnant as a result. I sadly could not cope with the situation and used her want of getting me back to persuade her to abort. I do feel guilt for what happened but not regret for the outcome, I simply could not face having another child with her. I adore children but within a happy stable relationship.

My now ex girlfriend also became pregnant just over a year ago, she aborted, it was her decision, not mine :( I think I went along with her decision as it takes/needs 2 people to have a child.

Now I am beginning to sound like a basket case! I have had some serious emotional trauma over the last 6 years or so and maybe I need some form of counselling. I think that I have possibly buried all of these feelings/experiences away in order to survive.

I do not feel depressed in anyway, I just look at what I have been through and think I must be carrying all this trauma with me inside. I consider myself to be a generally strong confident person, just when I look at those experiences I think they must affect me in some way.

I re read a lot of this stuff.
She is in no emotional position to be involved with anyone right now and you are probably still carrying emotional baggage of your own. I don't think you two need to be together.
You are in better shape than she is but you two need to stay away from each other.

It may be a good idea for you to talk to someone just to sort of your feelings.
There has been a lot of messed up stuff in your life, a lot of buried stuff may be resurfacing.

I re read a lot of this stuff.
She is in no emotional position to be involved with anyone right now and you are probably still carrying emotional baggage of your own. I don't think you two need to be together.
You are in better shape than she is but you two need to stay away from each other.

It may be a good idea for you to talk to someone just to sort of your feelings.
There has been a lot of messed up stuff in your life, a lot of buried stuff may be resurfacing.

Thank you for your reply once more Homegirl 50. I think you are correct about her emotional position, but that's her problem to sort through, not mine. I will consider counselling of some sort.

She has replied to my email setting out that I need no contact with her and why. May as well post it, it's easier than saying what she said.

>edited for privacy<

Thanks for your message... it says it all really. I don't know why I find the ending so difficult to handle when it is me that has brought it about but I understand what you say about our contact with each other. I find it hard too and usually end up crying and feeling awful. So I think you are right to say no more contact. I can't lie... I am worried about the children, all of them. I'm not sure how we should go about them seeing each other or what to do about XXXXX and you. It's a tough one. Maybe it will become clearer in time.

I am dropping XXXX at riding at half 9 on thurs so should be back at about 10 if XXXXX wanted to see XXXX either here or with you? I know in the long run this may not work out but for now if you can manage it I want to try. If you ever drop Mathew off he can just run in on his own... he's a big boy now! The loss of the family is hard and I know seeing the kids reminds you so if this isn't possible then we will have to re-think. I just don't want it to suddenly stop for them all. There is also Amy to consider. My mum and dad are coming over Fri or Sat so that's why I thought Thurs will be best. If not then please don't worry, I will understand.

Don't feel you have to reply to this email or explain if thurs not a good plan. I hope you will find the peace and happiness you deserve with someone who is normal and good for you. (I find this so hard to say).

Love >edited for Net privacy< xxxx

This was followed by a text saying she had replied to my email and sorry she has hurt me, no need to reply.


I have not replied to the text or email. It obviously changes nothing between us, just a case if I can allow the children to see each other. If I do not it really would not be about spite, more about it stopping my healing.

XXXX was a one year old when I started seeing her, so we have more of a bond than the two older children, she has said before that she fears that he may have abandonment issues if I no longer see him.

XXX is 19 years old and my ex wife's and ex girlfriends/ex husbands daughter! Phew that's complicated. Amy's relationship with her mother is bad, so the only time she gets to see my son is when he is with me.

So when it comes to the children it is very complicated, BUT only if I make it so. If I was to think of myself and my son only then I think that we would be OK on our own doing our own things and over time I can forget about her and her children.

I can arrange for my son to see amy without any contact at all with the ex, however if I go down the route of no contact at all with her children, I know my son would end up at the ex's with XXXX when she spent time with him.

One thing that bothers me is that I did say to my son when we broke up that he would always be able to see XXXX, so I may have to break what I said, that is a concern to me.

I feel a little better after receiving the email, not quite sure why. I guess I have to make my mind up as to what to do regarding this mess of a broken family :(

Edited for privacy

I think after reading this over again, handling this like a divorce is what's needed. By that I mean the adults have to be on the same page regarding the kids, and put what's best for them first, and your own individual problems with each other aside. I know, slows the healing, but as a good plan, and routine are implemented, and carried out, that you both can accept, I think things can work out, and the children can enjoy each other.

The key is keep it about what's best for the kids, and NOT just about your own problems. Not the first time that adults who even after hating each other, work together to make things the best possible way for the children, to be loved and cared for to the utmost. You have to adjust your own thinking for their benefit. Not easy maybe, but who said it would be?

I agree with tal you can handle this as a divorce with children. You two can arrange time to drop off the kids and not have any contact with each other. It will hurt for a while, but it will get easier.
This can be done.

Wish you well

I think after reading this over again, handling this like a divorce is whats needed. By that I mean the adults have to be on the same page regarding the kids, and put whats best for them first, and your own individual problems with each other aside. I know, slows the healing, but as a good plan, and routine are implemented, and carried out, that you both can accept, I think things can work out, and the children can enjoy each other.

The key is keep it about whats best for the kids, and NOT just about your own problems. Not the first time that adults who even after hating each other, work together to make things the best possible way for the children, to be loved and cared for to the utmost. You have to adjust your own thinking for their benefit. Not easy maybe, but who said it would be?

Thank you for your input talaniman

I think I need to mull it over for a few days, I have my son from weds till Monday morning, I kind of have plans to take him camping for a few days so cannot do the Thursday anyway, I know that doesn't clarify the bigger picture. I guess it gives me more time and space to decide.

If I am honest, I think my son and I will be fine with no contact, as long as I make sure I fill that gap for him with good/happy experiences.

A part of me thinks, I have given and given so much and made sacrifices to this relationship and family and look how it ended up. It's not that I feel bitter and twisted, I just kind of think I should just look out for my sons needs and my own and not her own guilt and her children's needs. I am by no means a selfish person, it's just a train of thought I have right now.

Also I do not think it will work out anyway, it will just get in the way of new romantic relationships we will have, there are no blood ties here, hence will not viewed in quite the same way by our future partners as if there was.

Homegirl 50 and talaniman

Oh you are buggers, I start to go the way you suggest and you pair go the other! :)

I am of course joking, and understand it is for the children and not ourselves. I do of course appreciate your input, without it I wouldn't be posting, so thank you the two of you, Kitkat and also the other contributors.

Then you do what you have to do. If you think your son will be fine, then you leave it.
Her kids may be OK as well. You just have to play it by ear.
If you think this will cause more problems than solve, go with your gut.

Take your time and consider your options.

Thank you both. I will take some time to consider my options.

The last line in her email makes me very sad, not over analysing here. Just that she doesn't consider herself 'normal'

Sounds like a personal problem to me, and no excuse for anything.

She needs help. She jumps from one relationship to another and that is not good. It's like she is looking for something and does not know what she's look for.
But that is her problem now and she will eventually find her way.
You can no longer enable her. You have your own baggage to sort through.

She needs help. She jumps from one relationship to another and that is not good. It's like she is looking for something and does not know what she's look for.
But that is her problem now and she will eventually find her way.
You can no longer enable her. You have your own baggage to sort through.

Well yes, best not be told that by me mind! ;)

She does know she is looking for something, somewhere inside her is a lot of unhappyness, insecurity and low self esteem. I could never understand that within her as I have never felt like that myself. Whilst no doubt I am carrying trauma with me right now.

I have a theory on those that have a need/wish to become counsellors (as she does) in that I think a larger percentage on those type of courses than say an engineering course are emotionally damaged, it's like they think the course and the career will fix them. I may be way out of the ball park on this, just a theory based upon the ex, her counsellor and how she describes those on the course. Weird really.

Not posted for a few days. So a little update to where I am at! :)

After her last email agreeing NC, saying no need to reply to her email or text, it took her less than 24 hours to call me! Arggghhhh. I pick up and she wants an answer on me dropping my son around on Thursday to play. Saying it was driving her mad and bothering her.

Well I had cancelled my camping trip at this point and agreed and said we would see how it went. I dropped him off this morning (I was not going to go in her house), anyway they were all outside her house when I got there. I did not engage with her children, this makes me a little sad but I have to think of myself here and protect myself.

I was there about a minute I guess and left, I was polite but no more than that. I didn't feel any emotion towards her really, just all a bit numb all round I guess.

So anyway I am doing OK I reckon. Oh yes I have made a mental list of all her negative points against her positives, it's all a little one sided and I tried to be as objective as I can! :)

At the same time I still feel sadness for the loss of family which I now know will never be the same, shame.

Will be sorting out holiday we had booked over the next few days, will of course be going with my son and my family. She is going to be pissed when I tell her, but she made her bed and she can lie in it, with her new rebound man! Oh no I don't want to sound bitter, it just sneaks out every now and then :)

Have a good time with your son,

Arggghhh, here is where I am at.

On Thursday, she was texting at various points through the day whilst she had my son with her, said that he was being lovely, sweet, funny etc, even offered to look after him in the summer holidays when I have contact and I have to work. So she gradually extended the visit until after tea time, I didn't mind as I knew my son would be having a good time.

I go round to pickup him up as agreed and get drawn into the house, we chat and do the family thing for about half an hour, I can't pretend that I didn't enjoy it, it was all very relaxed and everyone seemed so happy. I noticed her elder son had been missing for about 10 minutes, she finds him upstairs on his bed crying his heart out. He comes down and I know intuitively why he is crying, he realises that it is not the same as it was before, i.e. I am taking my son away and he is not staying. I hug him and tell him that he we still see my son, it seems to make no difference to him. Well through text I find out that he was unable to sleep and was still upset a few hours past his bedtime, and that she doesn't know what she is doing anymore.

So next day I decide to take my son to the seaside, just me and him for a day out, I did consider inviting her son but thought it best not too. Whilst on the way she calls asking if we can all go out on Saturday afternoon as her daughter has a party and there are some activities
That our two sons could probably do together with me. I tell her I will think about it and let her know. She texts a couple of hours later saying it was wrong of her to put on me in that way and if I don't want to do that then that is fine.

In the end I agree to take her two sons out, my son and my ex stepdaughter out on Saturday afternoon whilst she is at the party, I said there was no suitable activities for them and that we shouldn't do the happy family thing as we are not one anymore, so it was better I took them all out separately. She said she was confused about everything, I said that she should should stick with her decision and that the upset of her son should not sway her the other way.

We had a good afternoon out and I returned them, her parents where visiting and I dropped them off before she returned from the party. Her parents asked if they would be seeing me again before they returned home and that it would be nice, I simply said I have no idea.

So I then receive a text from her late on Saturday night saying, I am obviously not communicating with her, her son is still up and is crying and her parents are worried and now and I am giving her the cold shoulder, she is f***** off with it all and it is perhaps better that I do not bother with the kids if it is too much for me!

Well it transpires that she had sent a text earlier in the evening saying ty for taking them out etc, they had a great time and so on. I never received that text.

I told her not to take it out on me, I understand she is upset and so is her son but it is not fair to have a go at me. She ends up saying sorry in a strange way, she also says that she will not bother me with her concerns, she thinks they should be with her sons father who is more constant, no need to reply. I didn't reply.

So since then we have had 2 very short telephone conversations (Sunday/Today) just practical stuff, she says she will talk to me at some point about her son's feelings and the texts on Saturday night.

I have nearly been in tears a couple of times typing this out (sorry it is so long), really because of all the upset this is still causing for me, her and her son. Also for how she came across so angry at me in text on Saturday evening, completely unnecessary. I was actually OK with the taking the children out and didn't have an issue with it at all.

This morning I felt like crap again, but I have processed those feelings throughout the day and I feel OK again.

I am struggling to find a way forward though as I do not really want my son to stop seeing her children but if this is how it ends up then it cannot continue I guess.

This is in your hands. You have to do what is best for you and YOUR family. Stop allowing her to suck you in her drama. I'm not saying she is malicious in doing it, but she is doing it and you are letting her.
If your son is OK with not seeing her kids, do what is best for your son.
As long as you are having these feelings after seeing her not talking to her, you have not healed.
NC, nothing less.

Thank you for the reply homegirl 50 :)

I am not healed, I am now quite sure of that, although I am by no means back at square one. I am not so sure that my son will be OK not seeing her children to be honest. For instance he asked on Sunday if he was going to see them. They do genuinely get on so well, and have known each other since birth.

I agree about what you say i.e. getting sucked into her drama, it is just so hard not to, I love her children and miss them, I miss her too and probably still love her, although probably accept there will be no way back.

So yes I need to do what is best for myself and my son, I am just not sure what that is anymore.

I have always figured a clean break is the best for all, since you both have demonstrated a profound lack of dealing with your own children in a way that can work for them, and for you both.

Stop contacting her, and letting her contact you, and I think over time you both can heal, and deal with your OWN families. And through your healing apart from each other, your children will have time to accept, and adjust to the situation.

Remember it was her decision to not commit to you that started this whole thing, right. It hurts right now, I feel that, but in time, maybe you both will be able to make better decisions.

talaniman

Thank you for your input.

I think as you have pointed out, both our emotions are still too raw. However I thought I conducted myself very well on the 2 occasions of contact, I guess you probably mean I should not have got drawn into the house and into the family thing. It was a little surreal really, she was happy and relaxed (the happiest she had seen her since the breakup, her old self) and so was I and the children (obviously her older son was not), I knew we both felt that at the time. I am not just trying to cling on by saying it and yes I know she is unable to commit to me, hence where we are now.

We have had no contact since Monday morning, wow I hear you say, well that's about 36 hours, I think a record for us both! Anyway I have my sense of humour back ;)

I am still not convinced that no contact is the way forward for the children. I think as you pointed out a few days ago if it was to work we needed to set boundaries and be in a divorcée mode, we never did that. Perhaps that is the way forward.

I have just read my last paragraph and think, hmmmmm is that really just for the children? I think the same could be said on her part as well.

You are right we both need to find some clarity in our minds here.

Well a little update. I went round this evening with my son, I initiated this as my son asked if we could go round. I dropped him off and she asked if I wanted a cup of tea (yes yes I am from the UK :) ). I took her up on the offer.

It all went very well really, no tensions. I was there with my son for a couple of hours, we just talked and talked about what we had been up to etc and got on really well as we do generally. She talked about how she has been feeling, I actually managed to listen properly without my own agenda. There was no real heavy talk, just nice light hearted, healthy chit chat, oh and my amazing sense of humour!! :)

I feel in quite a good place right now, and it is not based on any false hopes, well I bloody well hope not. It was just nice to see her and the children and I suppose catch up and talk quite openly with what seemed like no hidden agenda.

I had a good chat with one of my sisters earlier in the day, she is great to talk too about such matters. I think I came to the realisation that I continue to move on with my life and what will be will be, no point in hanging onto the past, it will only determine my future if I let it. I hope how I feel right now continues.

I pinged her a quick text afterwards just checking her eldest son was OK, she said yes he is OK and that it was nice to see us.

Maybe we can make this work out for the children's best interests, although I have concerns for the longevity of it all.

Well the story continues... Oh no I hear you say! :)

She texted and called Thursday/Friday last week, I help her sort something out and she tells me of her woes as usual about her upset son and so on on Friday.

I have left it up to her to inititiate any contact for some time now. She always does in the end. So I don't hear from her over the weekend and she texts me Monday eve telling me that our ex stepdaughter is going to move in with her, and also the problems with her ex husbamd, not taking the kids on more to help her out. I am polite but distant. She didn't reply to my last text asking a question, saying she fell asleep, so she calls me this morning, once again to tell me of her woes, no how are you, how are you getting on etc? not that I really feel the need I just consider it polite considering the circumstances. I ended the conversation a little abruptly but was not rude, she had to get to college anyway.

So in the afternoon she texts, 'are you pissed off with me?' I said no, and I don't know where she got the idea from. Anyway we text some more and leave it at that. I apparently call her by accident whilst at the gym, check my call log and nope it wasn't me, short conversation to sort that one out! :)

She texts throughout the evening until late just general light hearted banter between us. Then asks if I could do her a huge favour. At this point I am thinking is this where we have been going all evening! She asks if I can look after two of her kids with my son tomorrow whilst she takes her eldest son for an evening concert at school.

I say no, saying that I would feel used, and at this moment in time I feel it the best all round. She needs to look out for herself and I need to do likewise. I am not being vindictive or hurtful etc etc. What it is exactly that you want/expect from me. I have said many times I cannot be your friend right now.

Well her reply is it's OK I get what you are saying, then I guess this it. We say goodbye. I know your not being hurtful.

I reply saying if she wants to take it that way then it is up to her. I asked her a direct question about what she wants/needs, she needs to answer that so we know where the boundaries lie. Maybe she doesn't know the answer, but she needs to try and be honest. Also that I am not expecting her motivation to be that she wants me back. I said also I understood our continuing contact was for the children. I respect her decision that the relationship as it was is over but she needs to be honest with herself and me and realise exactly what she wants from me.

No reply to that text, although it was sent after 1AM here, didn't expect one anyway irrespective of time.

So I am not down or even angry right now, I feel absoloutely fine. For the 1st time in a long time I have stood up for myself and said no to her, I knew she wasn't going to like it, but hey ho! :) She is so manipulative (yes yes I allowed that in the past), her text so that's it then I guess we say goodbye, dramatic to say the least, all because she didn't get her own way. I do not hate her, I still see her as a funny, generally kind and caring person whom I had a great connection with and what I considered a great family too. Her traits and behaviour border on narcissistic at times, although I am obviously not qualified to diagnose! Once again just one BIG shame for BOTH our families.

Continue to stand your ground. But you need to stop so much communication even if she instigates it. She still has a foothold.

Good job recently. You are right in thinking that you should only contact her so the children can see each other.

She seems to be using you like her therapist. You aren't her therapist or her friend. You are her ex and it just so happens your children are friends. Sure you can be curteous, but letting her stay so involved in your life with all these conversations that are irrelevant to your childrens' relationships is only hurting you. You need to either not respond to her texts or tell her to stop texting you.

Thank you homegirl50, I will stand my ground. I feel very strong now. Her behaviour is bizarre to me, I would like to rationalise it and I can't, yes I know I don't need to. I guess I have been a doormat for her, nice! :)

reckless

Thank you for your input. I wish I was her therapist, she pays her current one quite handsomely! I was going to insist that our contact/comms would only be about the children seeing each other, the only thing I think that stopped me was that I thought her reaction would be similar to that of tonight and that the children would suffer.

I took her 3 children and my son out for the day at the weekend. I arranged this via text and a quick call. Call was kept strictly to 'business' as was any text. I had kind of agreed to it some time ago. Anyway we all had a good day out, it was great to see her children and for my son and her eldest to spend time together :)

I advised her that we were on our way back and she metioned food for them all and a takeout. So I promptly arranged with family to have food with them so I had a good reason not to linger during drop off or to get drawn in. So I dropped off and quickly left, she was clearly wanting to cry as we left, I didn't say a word and I was fine with it all. I don't like to see her upset but no point in engaging it imo.

Got happy father day text from her and then a call from her youngest. Again texts afterwards but mainly about the children, I do not respond to any content other than the children, for instance her apologising for maybe being rude when I collected/dropped off, she was just trying to not draw me into her emotional state apparently.

Anyway I am doing OK, think I handled it all rather well, however I still have this thing in my mind that I should cut her off completely. It is not about being selfish and making the children/her suffer. I realise that this situation in the long run probably cannot continue, she/I will meet somebody else and the reality of those relationship/s will knock it all on the head. Am I strong enough to make that leap right now? I don't think so. I realise I am going round in circles with this, bloody children :) I do sincerely love them all to bits but maybe I need/must let go of that for my own future emotional health.

Well it has been a couple of weeks since my last post and I am still here lurking around in the shadows :D

I finally decided to tell her that I was not going on holiday with her and the children and that I was going away with my 2 nieces and my parents. I needed to collect some stuff from her garage for a car boot sale so I texted her, went up and told her face to face (we had been in NC for 8 days) I thought I knew she wouldn't take it well but I wanted to tell her directly.

She seemed Ok about it and I explained that I thought it was for the best. We chatted for some time and all seemed well, she shed a few tears as usual. She agreed that I was correct some time ago and that she felt better with NC apart from discussing the children seeing each other.

Next morning she starts with a text nice and early, the flights were hers, I should have discussed it with her 1st and that her son will be devastated. I explained that the flights are still hers if she wants them and she can book accommodation wherever she wishes as we simply booked four more flights and then our own accommodation. She said she couldn't handle that so I duly cancelled her flights. I explained that I felt guilty BUT it was simply a compromise too far for both of us.

Midweek I get drawn into the ex step daughters drama, her mother has ditched her 20 miles from home, can I pick her up, fortunately I am on the way to pick my son up from school so pick her up and drop her off at the current (or not current rather) ex's. I do not go in and simply leave.

Last weekend she starts contact and I take her son and mine out, all OK. Next day texts from her. I get drawn in a little but cut it all dead. NC since.

To be honest I am not doing the best here, hence my post. When I went round last weekend and her youngest (4 years old, with whom I have the greatest bond with as I have been a significant part of his life for 3 years) and he is all over me, bless him. Seeing them all together in her house all sat on the sofa in a line and the fun they all have together and thinking that this in not sustainable in the long term.

I know that I chose to push her away (yes she did end the relationship) and said I couldn't be friends right now and that I cannot play happy families for my own healing reasons, BUT it hurts knowing that this family as it was is no longer and that is it now it will not continue. OK I can keep myself busy, go to the gym, see friends, go out etc etc, that doesn't take way that big train wreck that it is for every one involved.

So in circles again, I either continue in the same vein as I know the pain will ease in time or I cut off now and the pain eases more quickly but at the expense of the children.

Sorry for the long post , you all probably lost interest some time ago, it does help me typing this out though I think :)

You know what you need to do, you just need to stick to it.

I probably do know, can I do it now? NOPE! So I ask myself why can't I? Be honest to myself. It is for the children AND letting go of her completely, the children swing it. I honestly do think if there were no children involved that I would have healed significantly more by now.

I have been quite strong with her over the last few weeks, I can see that my change in stance and distance offends and upsets her, she no longer gets her own way anymore.

If it wasn't the children, it would be something else. You are still attached to this woman, you don't want to let go.
The kids will be fine when the adults make up their minds.
You two are the ones making it hard for the kids. Stop playing yo yo.

Homegirl50

Ty for your reply, you are always here :) I do sincerely mean that.

My 1st reaction is that you are being harsh with respect to us making it hard on the children. You see if they were my children it would so much simpler, I could simply have them for the weekend and midweek, my son gets to see his best friend and I get the pleasure of them. Yes I know that they are not mine and it cannot be that way, I am not their father and never saw myself as a replacement for him.

So I have the pleasure of losing all of them and my son loses his best friend and I get to heal more quickly.

Ok, my 2nd reaction is that you are probably correct in what you say, because as I have identified in the long run this is not sustainable. Both our emotions are still too raw and neither of us are ready to be friends, I have never done the friend thing with an ex anyway.

More introspection on my part required I think.

Like I said, you know what you need to do, you just need to stick to it.
When you do that, your son will be fine. If she does that, her kids will be fine.
It is up to you , it seems, to make sure this break stays clean.

Your inability to separate the children's needs, from your own is a problem. Its like a divorce really. You do for the kids, and keep the ex as a strictly business association.

Don't say you can't because its done all the time. I draw the line where children are used for power by adults, and in your case, your ability to separate the two. Yeah its tough, and hurtful, so what? The best interest of the kids is all you can plan your actions around and if that means sucking up some misery and pain on your part, do it for them, and who cares how long your personal healing takes.

Make a decision to do what's best for them, as they cannot rant, vent, or get support like you can. They can't tell the adults what to do about adult problems, so why should they suffer because of those adult problems?

That's my point, they should NOT!!

Your inability to separate the children's needs, from your own is a problem. Its like a divorce really. You do for the kids, and keep the ex as a strictly business association.

Don't say you can't because its done all the time. I draw the line where children are used for power by adults, and in your case, your ability to separate the two. Yeah its tough, and hurtful, so what? The best interest of the kids is all you can plan your actions around and if that means sucking up some misery and pain on your part, do it for them, and who cares how long your personal healing takes.

Make a decision to do whats best for them, as they cannot rant, vent, or get support like you can. They can't tell the adults what to do about adult problems, so why should they suffer because of those adult problems?

Thats my point, they should NOT!!!!

Talaniman

I can assure you that I do not use the children for power in any way, I have been on the end of that for the last 5 years from my ex wife, whom despite a court order for access etc continues to grasp that little piece of control left, even though ultimately she could face serious consequences for doing so. Unfortunately for that to happen it would cost me potentially over £15.000 to get to that point, and at any point along the way she plays the game with the order and all that 'investment' is wasted!

I sincerely love all of the four children and do want what is best for them, I simply do not know what it is. You talk of sucking up the pain, maybe you think I should have gone on holiday as a 'psuedo family?', my decision not to go with them was not impulsive nor ill thought out. It was based upon what I deemed best for everyone, most certainly not about power. I have been through a divorce with my own child involved so I know perfectly well how it should be dealt with, I guess the difference is that at the end I had no feelings for her (ex wife)

She (ex gf) asked me yesterday if there were no children involved would I cut contact with her completely? I told her that 100% I would cut contact with no children involved, My reaction was on reflection 100% what I feel, not emotive.

Within 2 minutes of meeting her yesterday she is in in tears, she tells me she is seeing someone else, well I knew this anyway we discussed it weeks ago. Ok the true reason for her telling me is that she thought from my distancing that I was seeing somebody else and wanted to know
If I was. At this point I told her I had some very intimate fun at the weekend, which I did. Fun being the word, nothing serious we both knew that and that was that. Yes I am a little embarrassed about it she was much younger than me, I didn't seek it out it just happened. I am sure I will be castigated for this!

This caused her considerable hurt I could see it. Next day I get a text saying she is now in a childlike state, cannot function and drinking at the thought of me with someone else.

We are hurting each other, we both know it as well, yet we both cannot truly let go. We could sit with each other and talk for hours and have a great time, we both know and acknowledge that.

I have read the above and see some inconsistencies. I will not edit it, it should serve to tell me how I am still emotionally a bit of a mess.

Talinaman I know you are here to help and I generally find your posts insightful. Please do not take my emotive response badly.

I think for your own sanity and self preservation you need to cut all ties with this woman. Do not allow her to use the kids just so she can see you.
I still think your son will be OK. Hers would probably OK too if she would stop putting them in the middle.
But as long as she is being unstable, leave her alone, stay away.

Maybe they can't see each other as much as THEY want, but for the kids, YOU put your feelings aside and give them what s best for them.

Maybe its ME who expects you to be able to put your personal feelings aside for THEIR sake and ignore what ever game she plays, but Emo or NOT, what's best for the kids, all of them, is what matters, not the feelings of the adults at all, in my view.

If it takes you a hundred years to get over this ex, so what? Is it worth it for the kids, or can't you handle your emotions for a higher purpose besides this stupid back and forth, between exes?

Don't mean to be harsh, please understand, but the relationship with the kids, and you, is more important to me, than the emotional inadequacies between adults. I assume you feel the same so one of you has to be mature, and do the right thing. If she can't that only leaves YOU!

So what's the problem?

Well thank you for input once again. I had given this some serious thouht over the last few days.

Oh I omitted that last Monday during our last conversation that I asked if she thought that maybe she had some sort of personality disorder. She said that she thought she maybe Borderline. I looked this up and christ it is more than likely true from my observation, yes I know I am not qualified to diagnose her. I can only assume that she has either considered this with her therapy or through what she is learning at college.

Anyway I decided not to contact her with regard to seeing my son this weekend, although we agreed that there would be some contact this weekend. I would have done so if my son requested seeing her son, he never did.

She texted today and suggested Tuesday I agreed and we set a time.

My ex stepdaughter now lives with her, it's her ex stepdaughter too! The stepdaughter texts me asking to see my son and ask about her iPod that her mother was supposed to send over with my son. Well me and the ex had sorted out the contact and I told her I had the iPod. She had not relayed this to her. I wondered at this point if they actually still lived together. Anyway the penny drops with me, she obviously can't discuss me with ex stepdaughter whilst he is around. Call me paranoid but my gut instinct is usually correct, her new bloke is there and no weekend contact between the children was about her having her new relationship and them me dropping my son off in the week when he is not around.

I can see history repeating itself here, she can't be alone and only thinks of herself and will throw herself fully into this man being around all the time very very quickly. What does that teach her children?

She is so full of BS, her actions do not match her words. Monday she says, I love you, I dreamily think of us back together in 2 years time. Yeah righto.

So... I have texted her saying that Tuesday is cancelled, it is best for everyone that we do not contact each other again and that the kids do not see each other.

No reply. I do not particularly want or need one to be perfectly honest. She needs to take a huge look at herself and get some help for the sake of herself and her children.

My justification for NC with the children?

Ultimately the contact will end, she would have ended it or continued to hide the contact from her relationship. It is best for everyone's sake it ends now.

I do not want my son involved anymore, she is emotionally unstable. Ultimately if contact continued he would have heard/seen her new relationship. What would that teach my son about commitment and families? Quickly disposable and meaningless I would think.

I miss the kids and the 'family', I have always put them 1st. Enough is enough I am done. It's so sad for all of us, but I am done with all this BS.

I could have dealt with the children aspect of contact and took longer to heal, yes it would have hurt. I can see through her crap now and know it unltimately would end in more hurt for me and my son.

You look after your son, leave her kids to her.
I think breaking all contact is the right thing to do.

Yep homegirl50 you nailed it right on the head from your 1st post, doh! :)

I know it took me a while to get to this point, but it was hard with children involved that I did/do actually love.

It was really strange when I look back, the 1st 6 months or so of the relationship were amazing to me, she mirrored me. She started smoking. Loved to watch films, shared the same sense of humour etc etc. Over time she used some of these things to devalue me with! Every time she asked for a break was because I had expressed concern with her pulling away from me and not feeling loved. She said once that I was needy, I am so not needy, it was her that was so needy. Think they call that projection.

So her fear of abondonment leads her to request a break! Ffs. Talk about me being blinded by 'love'.

There is one string left here. I said in my last post that our ex stepdaughter now lives with her. The ex stepdaughters relationship with her mother is not good, mental and physical abuse, she no longer has contact with her. Her only contact with my son (her half brother) is through me. I have texted her and expained that there will no more contact with my son and the ex's children, I am sorry that she is caught up in other peoples relationship BS once again. She can always see her brother and I will not stop that.

She said it was not my fault and she understands and thanked me for letting her still see her brother. I have arranged for her to spend some time with my son in town on Monday. I have not attached any rules to it, that seems pathetic and I am sure she gets the jist of things though.

I guess I am quite looking forward to my holiday on Wednesday :D A week away with my great supportive parents, my amazing son and my two beautiful nieces. I know we will have a great time.

Enjoy yourself.