Hi my son started shaking his head nearly 2 years ago at meal times and was very tired and grumpy all the time and waking up screaming,laughing and talking to himself.
I didn't put all of these together until around a year ago
He is waiting to see the child psycologist also and also attending speech therapy.

The head shaking only happened at meal times,He holds his left hand close to his chest most of the time in a fist,His tongue slightly out,And he make a strange noise with it,The noise breaks up into 5/10 seconds at a time
He does try to fight this when there's someone at the house that's not usually here.
When he comes round he asks ''are we going home'' ''whats wrong mammy'' ''what happend''
With him being tired all the time I decided to put a camera in his room he also does this at night shaking his head,Pulling his arm close to his chest and shaking but more than he does at meal times,faster and more viciously,He is not doing if for attention.
This is keeping him awake at night.
He wakes up crying and he's complaining of sore ankles and legs I put this down to growning pains but now I'm not sure.
He used to wake up screaming wouldn't let me hold him or anything,he was so bad one night I cut his baby grow off him because I thought he was really hurt,My doctor said it was night terrors.
I showed our new health nurse a video of my son at meal time shaking his head and she said he must be copying it off somebody else,we keep ourselves to ourselves,that was the first time she had seen him.
I went to my doctor and she referred him for the peadiactric nurse who sent him for an EEG to see if he has epliepsy they done the flashing light test while the had wires stuck to his head and he had no fits or headshaking.
He constantly asks questions I know all kids do but he will ask ''where are we going'' ill tell him where we are going and not 2 minutes later he asks the same again and again with me telling him again and again and again.
Since he was 6 months old I have told him the colours of ever toy he had in his hand,the colour of the grass,trees,the sky etc and sang the alphabet with him over and over again and counted every step up to bed and down to breakfast non of this seems to be going in he's nearly 4 now and still can't count to 5 or tell me the colours I feel like I'm putting all in and getting nowhere fast.
I've tried everything books,PC games,toys,everyday objects to count and ask colours.

Has anyone herd of or seen this with another child?
Someone mentioned it maybe a mild autism could anybody shed any light on this please

And thank you in advance for you advice

It does sound like autism or some kind of neuological disorder. Many people are noticing that around the time their kid turns two that they are having these kind of problems. The head of the South Hills Pittsburgh Pa autism chapter said that her son and the son of the head of the North Hills chapter noticed that their kids behaviors suddenly changed after this one immunization shot around that time.
Also my friend said her son was developing normally and around two he all of a sudden quit talking and learning and was diagnosed with autism. Many parents are saying this is happening to their kids. Mostly sons right around their second birthday.
They say that out of 4 million kids 24,000 are getting autistic.
I know you are in England. Do they require the immunization shots there?

It sounds like autism or a form of developmental disorder. Autism is a broad spectrum, so people can be mild or severely autistic.

One of the typical behaviors for autism is what they call "stim" i.e. stimulation. People with autism will repeat a movement to either stimulate or calm themselves. You may have seen autistic people flapping their arms up and down, as one example.

You need to get him assessed as soon as possible, because it sounds as if there is an intellectual development disorder as well.

I would be going to a pediatrician, not a child psychologist.

There is an autism society in the UK, they will be able to refer you to a specialist in your area.

The National Autistic Society - Home (http://www.nas.org.uk/)

I have videos by a few doctors that warn of the autism connection.
They say shots no longer contain mercury or aluminum but they just use another name for it.

YouTube - Part 1: The Vaccine-Autism Connection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zJrkPJXAh0)

I have videos by a few doctors that warn of the autism connection.
They say shots no longer contain mercury or aluminum but they just use another name for it.

YouTube - Part 1: The Vaccine-Autism Connection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zJrkPJXAh0)

I have also read some stuff in the regular press about it - so it must be in the public arena if the papers are discussing it!

behaviors suddenly changed after this one immunization shot around that time.


You know I love you... but DON'T blame it on the immunizations. We could get into this debate all day. There are other studies that blame autism on MANY other factors that do not include vaccines.

As a matter of fact, the European doctor who originally blamed autism on vaccinations has been proven wrong and is facing charges.

YouTube - Part 1: The Vaccine-Autism Connection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zJrkPJXAh0)

Yup, and I believe EVERYTHING I hear on YouTube and/or wiki. NOT!!

The medication that this supposed doctor is talking about is Thimerisol (sp).

I agree that there is something neurological going on, but I don't believe it's any kind of autism. Since I have an adult son who is autistic, I've spent a number of years reading up on and talking with professionals about autism. Head shaking as this little boy is doing it isn't one of autism's repetitive behaviors.

Tourette's was the first thing I thought of, but I'm not so sure that explains the rest of his behavior. Age two is often the threshold year for beginning developmental and neurological problems, but I am not so sure immunizations are the cause or the catalyst.

He may be allergic to something in the food he eats. He definitely should be seen by a pediatric neurologist.

I have also read some stuff in the regular press about it - so it must be in the public arena if the papers are discussing it!

And the papers make money on fear mongering. Look, I'm a nurse, I specialize in this sort of thing. I give newborns their first vaccination. I know what is out there and what is to be feared and what is not to be feared.

I am specialized in pediatrics.

This is fear mongering at it's worst. I guess we should all stop immunizing and get prepared for outbreaks such as smallpox... mumps... measles, etc. all over again.

NH... are you willing to see your grandchild suffer any of these diseases? Spread them to the rest of the families? I really didn't think so.

Love you too J_9
I am not so sure I rule it out. They even explain the link of how some are susceptible while others are not. It also makes me wonder when it is the one shot near their second birthday that is being linked to it rather than any one of the shots. They say the rise in autism in kids is starting to get alarming something like 24,000 to 4 million.

The second birthday is a common factor... brain growth and development. Many studies also show that children from affluent families have this disorder.

So, why would the shot at 18 months be different from any other shot?

Again, we can debate this to the end... but I will stand firm that this is all fear mongering.

Be very careful with subjective tests, when it's a professional's or even parent's personal report of what has occurred. A lot of information about a child accumulated from a number of people and many observations over a long period might give a diagnosis or some idea of what is wrong. But be very careful.

The same goes for linking two events, say turning age 2 and getting a shot, that occur before a medical problem results. There are so many variables that will occur at the same time, and each child receives unique combinations of stimuli. Maybe it was the chocolate frosting on the birthday cake that was the catalyst, or perhaps the laundry soap caused an allergic reaction. Again, be very careful.

And the papers make money on fear mongering. Look, I'm a nurse, I specialize in this sort of thing. I give newborns their first vaccination. I know what is out there and what is to be feared and what is not to be feared.

I am specialized in pediatrics.

This is fear mongering at it's worst. I guess we should all stop immunizing and get prepared for outbreaks such as smallpox...mumps...measles, etc. all over again.

NH...are you willing to see your grandchild suffer any of these diseases? Spread them to the rest of the families? I really didn't think so.

I'm sorry but I don't think it's just fear mongering. Immunization of children is a vexed and contentious issue and I think we have yet to hear the end of what the long term effects are.

There have been concerns about the long term effects for many years - at least now it's being discussed out in the open. No one is advocating a return to the days of small pox or mumps or measles - it is absurd to imply that questioning the long term effects of immunization means we believe this.

It may well be that there are other alternatives in terms of the chemical composition of the vaccines themselves - which is where some of the research should be focused.

I appreciate your experience as a nurse, but my husband works in the field of intellectual disability and I can assure you that some very experienced medical practitioners in that field are voicing concerns. In Australia, anyway.

Many many Doctors in America are voicing their concerns too.

I'm sorry but I don't think it's just fear mongering. Immunization of children is a vexed and contentious issue and I think we have yet to hear the end of what the long term effects are.
What else happens at that age? Certainly there are tons more variables than just immunizations. Maybe it's the growth hormones that are in the strained meats that Baby gets fed. Maybe it's a pesticide that is in the strained fruit or vegetables. Maybe it is a chemical in the nursing bottle.

Has anyone identified all the other variables babies encounter and has discounted them?

Cookie Monster,
I think you son needs to be evaluated more thoroughly. After reading your question, I have been reading about partial seizures, although I don't know if that's what your son has. This medical article says that an EEG is unreliable. I would try to have your son see a pediatric neurologist.


The diagnosis of partial seizures may be quite difficult, especially if the treating physician relies on technology to answer clinical questions. Up to 50% of patients with partial seizures have normal EEGs (between seizures) at the time of first evaluation.

His failure to learn is worrisome, too. Does he have a regular pediatrician who can evaluate his development? My sons' doctor did regular evaluations starting when they were a few months old. Has your son had that? If not, it should be done now.

I am posting the link here, although it's pretty technical.
Diagnosis and Management of Intractable Partial Seizures in Children (http://neurologia.rediris.es/congreso-1/conferencias/epilepsia-7.html)

yes the tons of variables are what make some more susceptible than others but I do believe the shot is in the mix. Dr Pompa, Dr Len and Dr Joe and Dr Winer are just a few of the doctors that have considered all the variables as you are questioning.

just a few of the drs that have considered all the variables as you are questioning.
ALL of the variables...

Have they made an Excel chart (for instance) listing all the children and then columns listing all the variables that have impacted on each child and then looked at the thousands of commonalities?

Does this sound like it?


Simple partial seizure — Simple partial seizures affect enough of the brain to cause symptoms, but not enough to interfere with consciousness. The symptoms vary from one person to another depending upon the region of the brain involved.

Symptoms may include feeling an unusual sensation (an odd smell or taste), seeing or hearing something, a feeling or emotion (sudden fear or a déjà vu experience), rhythmic twitching or stiffening movement in one hand or foot, or difficulty speaking. During a simple partial seizure, the child is aware but cannot control any abnormal movements that occur.

A simple partial seizure is also known an aura. Aura can occur as an isolated event or may occur before a complex partial seizure or generalized seizure.

Seizures in children (http://www.uptodate.com/patients/content/topic.do?topicKey=~AAnYTfaNICfbon)

Your son is old enough now that you can ask him what he experiences when he has these episodes. Ask him if he smells anything odd or feels odd or how it's different from how he feels normally. Write down whatever he says for the neurologist who I hope will see him soon.

Hi Cookie,
Here is more from that same website.

You might want to read more there.
Seizures in children (http://www.uptodate.com/patients/content/topic.do?topicKey=~AAnYTfaNICfbon)


Behavior during the seizure — Parents can pay close attention to the child's behavior during a seizure, and provide helpful information to the clinician, such as:

Do one or both arms or legs move and is it always on the same side?
Are the eyes and mouth open or closed?
Could the child respond to the parent's voice? To being pinched?
Did the child's color change (eg, pale or blue) during the seizure?
How long did the episode last?
Behavior after the seizure — Questions to consider about the child's behavior after a seizure include:

How did the child behave after the seizure? Did he or she recover immediately, or was there confusion or sleepiness? Did the child speak normally? Could the child respond to commands?
Was the child able to move normally after the seizure? Was there any difficulty speaking or moving the arms or legs on one or both sides?
Did the child remember having the seizure or the events that occurred during it?

One thing that is good for kids with problems that would be helpful is essential fatty acid.
essential fatty acid essential for kids neurological development and motor skills - Bing (http://www.bing.com/search?q=essential+fatty+acid+essential+for+kids+n eurological+development+and+motor+skills&go=&form=QBRE&qs=n)

I will have to get back to Wondergirl about what exact studies these doctors have done.

One thing that is good for kids with problems that would be helpful is essential fatty acid.
It's been reported recently that we, especially kids, are not getting the Vitamin D we need. The RDA is far, far less than what is needed. Who knows what else we are missing, and what we are taking in that hurts and even kills us.

Have to spread the rep Wondergirl. Yes vitamin D is making a big come back in the media and medical field. Way back when they said we need to avoid the sun and people turned to tanning beds I said that we were going to eventually end up having a problem with vitamin D deficiencies. I am surprised it took so long for them to realize this.

Have to spread the rep Wondergirl. Yes vitamin D is making a big come back in the media and medical field. Way back when they said we need to avoid the sun and people turned to tanning beds I said that we were going to eventually end up having a problem with vitamin D deficiencies. I am surprised it took so long for them to realize this.

So true! I live in Australia and for years we have been hammered with 'don't go out into the sun'. I have always been skeptical, because why would we have the sun if we didn't need to get sunlight! So everyone went around covering themselves 24/7 and now of course we have a huge problem with Vitamin D deficiency. And, we are only realizing now how important and essential this vitamin is to the functioning our or bodies and brains.

We used to play outdoors spring through winter (and got all our vitamin D) until our moms dragged us in at dark to do homework or chores. Now all the entertainment is in the house -- computers, game systems, TV -- and moms don't want their kids wandering around loose outdoors.

CM they tell us that here too. They have everybody believing that but the doctors that are against immunizations have the state law immunization exemption/waiver forms for each state.
I think the others are right that it probably isn't autism in your sons case though.

I feel for your concern as a parent. Some of the information you provided sounds like symptoms of Aspergers syndrome.
Including the tics.
Here is a link you may find useful.
Asperger Syndrome Causes, Symptoms, and Diagnosis on MedicineNet.com (http://www.medicinenet.com/asperger_syndrome/article.htm)

I ask him what happens or what's wrong or why does he do it ,I've asked him loads of different ways and he doesn't understand he just says he doesn't know

Hi Cookie,
Don't ask him why he does it or what is wrong. IF it's some kind of seizure, he has no way of knowing why it happens to him or what is wrong. Plus, it's been happening basically his whole life, so it's almost normal to him. So keep that in mind.

Instead, the next time it happens, try to answer the following questions.
Can he hear you and talk to you. Ask him something you know he knows the answer to and that he could normally answer, like a pet's name.

If he can't communicate with you during the episode, then write that down.

Ask him if he feels different than he did earlier. (Don't ask how, because that may be too much for him to answer.) Just ask if he feels different.

If he can talk during or any time after and begins to talk about it in anyway at all--when he sees you are interested in his experience of it -- don't interrupt him, but let him talk and really listen to what he says and write it down. It may not make a lot of sense, because he's four, but I'm guessing if you pay attention, there are clues to what is going on with him.

Do get an appointment with a pediatric neurologist. You might have to travel to see one, but I personally would not hesitate to do that. If your son IS having seizures, they should be controlled, as they are bad for his brain. There are lots of things that can cause seizures, so they are just a symptom. If it's not seizures, you still need to find out what it is.

To me, this does not sound like autism or tourettes, but I am not a neurologist!

PS. It's important to be able to give the doctor as much information as possible. Your video tape of him sleeping is excellent. You could do the same when he is awake and having an episode, possibly have someone film that while you are trying to get him to talk to you.

You've been hitting some dead ends, but I think your instincts are right and you are doing the right things.
Good luck!

Have to spread the rep.
video taping is an excellent idea and all your points are good.

Asking- You asked if my son has a regular pediatrician who can evaluate his development,They don't do that in ireland they see a health nurse and the older they get the longer between visits.And are new health nurse who the first time she met my son and watched the video of him at meal time shaking his head and me calling him and him asking ''whats wrong mammy'' she said there was nothing wrong with him,she didn't bother with any tests etc she spoke to him and he would not cooperate with her.Hes been seeing a speech therapist the last few months and the odd lesson he won't take part or talk to her and he knows her well.
As for the other questions which arm its always his left.
His eyes are always open.Mouth slightly open enough for the tip of his tongue to be showing,Its at least a centimeter out of his mouth.
Wondergirl-Both my sons take vitamins,eat fish etc never had a problem with them eating.I bake my own cakes,biscuits,cookies so I know what they are eating they eat fruit aswel and some vegetables,make my own soups also.
Artlady-im not to sure about Aspergers syndrome my son knows when he has done wrong he comes and says he's sorry,or if he's hurt or upset his brother he goes and gives him a hug and a kiss and says he's sorry,or when I've been upset he comes and gets on my knee and gives me a cuddle and a kiss asks why I'm crying or upset or angry.
Asking-When my son is shaking his head and I call his name in alow soft voice he doesn't respond if I raise it louder he will come out of it.When he's shaking his head its like there's nobody home,Sometimes it looks like he's looking at me or something else when he's doing it but he's not actually looking at anything he's miles away.I have asked him if he feels different or strange after he's been shaking his head but he doesn't know or doesn't understand the question,I've asked if his head feels funny or if he feels sick or dizzy I've tried every way I can think of to ask him.and I always listen to what he has to say even if it's the 20th time in 5 minutes that he's asked the same question,and when he's rushing to say something I ask him to stop,calm down and think about what he wants to say and then tell me [he is at speech therapy because sometimes he's hard to understand].

Its OK people saying he needs to see a pediatric neurologist and sort this out as soon as possible because it could damage the brain.But the doctors here are eliminating things step by step its taken a year just to get an EEG,And well over a year for a child psycologist.His pediatric nurse doesn't seem to listen she told me at first he's copying it off someone else [we keep are selves to are selves] so this isn't the case here.she just looks at me as a over worried parent and I think I have right to be as this behaviour is not normal,she basically gives me the ''what do you know'' look,when she hasn't seen it first hand and he wouldn't do it even if she came to are house,he tries so hard to fight it when people he doesn't know are around.hes been going to nursery the last week and without me mentioning it to the member of staff working at the time after I had mentioned it to her she pointed out that she had seen his hand shaking and pulling his arm to his chest and making a fist and slightly shaking his head [he was fighting it so the other kids didn't see] sometimes I think he's aware of what he's doing and other times its like he's not.
I have explained it all in depth to my doctor,His healthnurse,2 pediatric nurses,The doctor who did the EEG.
Is there anyway I could upload a video to show you??

Cookie,
Apparently, neurologists are in short supply in Ireland. To me, your son's nurse does not sound very helpful or knowledgeable.

I doubt anyone here knows enough to tell much more than we have. Your description is very thorough but none of us is a doctor, let alone a neurologist.

I would advise that you call Brainwave, the Irish Epilepsy Association. Even if it isn't mild epilepsy, I'm hoping they will help you figure out what to do next. Their website says they have a nurse who is a specialist who can talk to you on the phone.

Brainwave The Irish Epilepsy Association
249 Crumlin Road
Crumlin
Dublin 12.

Tel: 01 455 7500
Fax: 01 455 7013

Contact Us - About Brainwave - Brainwave (http://www.epilepsy.ie/index.cfm/spKey/about.contact.html)

Specialist Nurse Helpline 01 455 4133 (operates from 09.30 - 13.00 on Monday and Wednesday

See if you think this sounds like your son.
http://www.epilepsy.ie/assets/2/D2FBA090-A635-A8FD-B441DB581BD07E15_document/Complex_Partial_Seizures.pdf

Read around on their website. Call them soon!

Good luck!



[Posted: Thu 06/03/2008]

Ireland still has the lowest rate of consultant neurologists and rehabilitation specialists in Europe, the Irish Epilepsy Association, Brainwave, has said.

Neurology services still lacking (http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=13197)

I have to spread the love Asking... but I think you are right on target here.



As for the other questions which arm its always his left. It's possible that the right brain is affected.



Mouth slightly open enough for the tip of his tongue to be showing,Its at least a centimeter out of his mouth.


Another common symptom.



When my son is shaking his head and i call his name in alow soft voice he doesnt respond if i raise it louder he will come out of it.

Has his hearing been tested?



.When hes shaking his head its like theres nobody home,Sometimes it looks like hes looking at me or something else when hes doing it but hes not actually looking at anything hes miles away.

This is another common symptom of epilepsy.




Its ok people saying he needs to see a pediatric neurologist and sort this out as soon as possible because it could damage the brain.But the doctors here are eliminating things step by step its taken a year just to get an EEG,And well over a year for a child psycologist.His pediatric nurse doesnt seem to listen she told me at first hes copying it off someone else [we keep are selves to are selves] so this isnt the case here.she just looks at me as a over worried parent and i think i have right to be as this behaviour is not normal,she basically gives me the ''what do you know'' look,when she hasnt seen it first hand and he wouldnt do it even if she came to are house,he tries so hard to fight it when people he doesnt know are around.hes been going to nursery the last week and without me mentioning it to the member of staff working at the time after i had mentioned it to her she pointed out that she had seen his hand shaking and pulling his arm to his chest and making a fist and slightly shaking his head [he was fighting it so the other kids didnt see] sometimes i think hes aware of what hes doing and other times its like hes not.
I have explained it all in depth to my doctor,His healthnurse,2 pediatric nurses,The doctor who did the EEG.
Is there anyway i could upload a video to show you????

Unfortunately, this is part and parcel of socialized medicine. I'm glad we don't have it here in the US. Hope we never do as a matter of fact. This nurse sounds like a quack to me, as well as the doctors he has seen.

You can't upload a video here... BUT you can upload one to YouTube and post the link here so that we can see it.

I hope we never get the socialized medicine either.
I agree with asking and J_9, he needs a good evaluation. I hope everything works out for you. I know it is hard going through something like this.

My 26 y/o cyber son in Denmark had a form of juvenile epilepsy with similar symptoms. If I see him online tonight, I'll ask him more questions.

I would rule out Asperger's or any other form of autism.

Yes, please follow up with the information asking gave you.

Glad we all agree --except on the socialized medicine.

I pay $1200/month for my health insurance and it's draining my savings like water out of a bathtub. I will have to sell my house at some point soon if we don't get a public option. I'm hoping I can wait until my son graduates from high school.

I pay all this money, but when I had a post surgical infection inside my abdomen after major surgery, I went to see my doctor, and she wouldn't even see me (she came out and peeked at me in the waiting room and then ducked around a corner to hide), and the local hospital wouldn't accept me either. The receptionist sent me to an emergency room in a city 85 miles away where I sat in a hallway for 17 hours before I was admitted to the hospital and given (duh) antibiotics. They were apparently afraid of malpractice, so my own doctor would neither treat me nor talk to me or help me in any way.

I would love medicare for all! If I''m going to be treated like that, I'd like to be able to keep my house...

Hi again I have just uploaded vids to utube for you to see for yourself it's the only way that you can understand what I mean,all 4 are of my son

YouTube - BECKYJCOOKIE1 (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=BECKYJCOOKIE1&search_type=&aq=f)

My son was sent to temple street hospital in dublin for his EEG I'm still waiting the results they should be back in the next 3 weeks [FINGERS CROSSED]

I watched three of the videos (thanks, COOKIE!). It's definitely involuntary, and not a habit or something he is wanting to do.

When did the head shaking start? Did he bump his head badly as a toddler, or have some kind of head injury? Did anyone ever check his spinal fluid? Even as an infant did he make unusual movements?

Well it started with him talking and laughing to himself about 2 years ago, then shortly after the head shaking started.
He did have 1 fall but he was fine,no lumps bumps or anything,wasn't sick or concust or sleepy [was taken to the docs for a once over and she said he was fine].
He was fine until he hit 2 he wasn't clumsy,walked fine,speech wasn't great,no head shaking nothing.
No mone ever checked his spinal fluid,he did have a sweat test because he was always constipated and in serious pain and smelt REALLY bad.