Hi

I am 28. I found out 1 week ago my wife of 3 years cheated on me for 1 night with a guy after a party who she does not even know his name. I have been through a rollercoaster of emotions. She says I did nothing wrong and am the perfect husband. She says it felt good for that small amount of time "to have the attention of someone new" and was really drunk. She says she is going through a "funk". I made her leave for a couple of days and then let her retrun. Though I have gotten angry for a couple of days we are living together as humans fine. If anything much better than I would have thought. The problem is she will not talk to me about her feelings. When ever I try to bring it up she either says she can't "talk about it every second of the day"

She has asked to see a counselor. She says that I am the perfect match for her but on the other hand misses her indepedance sometimes and sees others who seem to have that "spark" 24/7. Neither one of us are "mushy people" If anything I am more mushy than her. She says she thinks she wants to be with me the rest of her life and will "kill herself" if she realizes in 10 years what a horrible mistake she has made.

I want her to just run up and hug me and say " I screwed up and will spend the rest of my life showing you how much I love you" But I don't see that happening.

Is this funk a real thing? Am I just blind to what is going to happen? She is not staying for the money. She has a good career and I own several companies. Either one of us could live on our own no problem. We have always had our own bank accounts with our own bills so we wouldn't fight about money.

So confused? Any thoguht?

In my mind this sums up the entire situation: " I made her leave for a couple of days and then let her retrun.. "

Maybe she's looking for a partner, not a boss.

Man, this has got to be tough on you. I truly feel for you. She NEEDS to apologize and come give you a hug and say how bad she feels, and that she's made the biggest mistake of her life.

I hope one day it will come to that. But as far as her having to pay for her selfish infidelity for LIFE, that's asking too much. If you can find it in your heart to forgive her, then work together through it. If she promises that it was just a one time thing, you'll need to get on with your lives. It's simply not healthy to have something like that hanging over her head, and weighing on your heart. I strongly suggest going to counseling, what have you to lose? You'll have to ask yourself if you can ever trust her totally again.

As far as the funk, and her seeing other people having a great relationship ALL the time, that's not what she needs to concentrate on. She needs to work with you to find some common ground on which to rebuild your love and trust. And even the best relationships have their problems. Sleeping with another guy was going to make your relationship better? Very weak excuses.

You said that she was drunk. Does she have a drinking problem? Does she always act so irresponsible when she does drink?

No, I don't think she has a drinking problem. We are together all week and I think I would know. It is common for us to have drinks on the weekend or a glass of wine during the week. I just think the drunk part might have been the difference between acting or not acting that night. I think there was a problem before that night. She says she is not sure how long she has felt in this funk. I am not sure if it is that the honeymoon has gone away?? Or because she grew up with separated parents that she figures this will happen? A year ago she wanted to start having kids?? Now many of her friends have had their first kids or are pregnant. She met some new friends who are all single or just dating. She is a couple of years younger than me. Is it to early for her to be going through some mid-life crisis?

You should definitely see a couples counsellor together to try to sort out the problems. The issues here are very unclear, because she's confused about what she wants. A neutral third party can really assist you.

As for her cheating you, you seem to have forgiven her so easily that she doesn't see it as a problem anymore. Who knows when she'll cheat again seeing that you forgive her so easily anyway.

Finally, for a marriage to work, it takes hard work from both people invovled. It sounds like she's more concerned about what "what ifs" rather than working on rebuilding your trust and strenthening the marriage.

I hate to say it, but you're definitely losing her and professional help is definitely required.

Had to spread the rep judy, but yeah. You "made her leave", "let her return" and why does she have to "ask to see a counselor"?

Yeah, cheating on you was bad. Big mistake. But spending the rest of her life making it up to you? She's your wife, not a martyr.

No one has a problem that the wife has to "ask" to see a counsellor and that she leaves the marital residence when told to do so and returns when OP allows her to do so?

This is neither a marriage nor a partnership - this is a dictatorship.

Not an excuse to cheat... but not in my lifetime. Last I heard women could come and go at will, handle money and even vote!

I see the OP losing control in a marriage based on control.

She explained herself to you once. Anything after that is unnecessary. She gave you details, maybe true, maybe not.

I'd worry less about her "drinking problem" and more about you "control problem."

I do matrimonal surveillances. The "I was too drunk to know what I was doing" statement is a very common defense. Sometimes it works. Many times it does not.

BUT if OP can't get over this then it's time to move on. I think both people are victims - OP and his wife.

Let me rephrase. I asked her if counseling would be a good idea and at first she said "no" she just had to figure things out. After she saw how hurt and angry I was, she asked if we could go to counseling. She was not asking, as in "for permission" to see a counseler. My choice of phrasing above could have been better. I love her with all my heart. I do not feel I am controlling. She has always been allowed to come and go as she pleases and gets everything she wants. We have separate finances as we thought it would be good for me to pay all the bills and she would save and pay for vacations, the boat, the dogs, a savings for the day we have kids, etc.

Also, Yes I was very angry for the first couple of days and she knew it. I can't stay angry forever. Without her telling me how she feels and not wanting to talk about it makes it hard for me to know what to feel. I go from sad one minute, to angry, to hopeful, to crushed. Its only been a week.

I want things to go back to how things uses to be. I want a happy wife, I want a happy marrige, I want to have kids and grow old with her. I love her so much, and she says she loves me, but what to do now.

but what to do now.

In one word, counseling.

Counseling for the marriage and individual counseling for her. I think she has deeper issues than a general 'funk' would imply.

Let me rephrase. I asked her if counseling would be a good idea and at first she said "no" she just had to figure things out. After she saw how hurt and angry I was, she asked if we could go to counseling. She was not asking, as in "for permission" to see a counseler. My choice of phrasing above could have been better. I love her with all my heart. I do not feel I am controlling. She has always been allowed to come and go as she pleases and gets everything she wants. We have seperate finances as we thought it would be good for me to pay all the bills and she would save and pay for vacations, the boat, the dogs, a savings for the day we have kids, etc.

Also, Yes I was very angry for the first couple of days and she knew it. I can't stay angry forever. Without her telling me how she feels and not wanting to talk about it makes it hard for me to know what to feel. I go from sad one minute, to angry, to hopeful, to crushed. Its only been a week.

I want things to go back to how things uses to be. I want a happy wife, I want a happy marrige, I want to have kids and grow old with her. I love her so much, and she says she loves me, but what to do now.


Things are never going to go back to the way they used to be. They can be better, of course, but after this type of incident I don't see things going back to the way they used to be.

Again - you basically threw her out of the marital home, you "let her" come back when YOU felt she had been punished enough OR you were no longer angry (and I have no idea where she went in the meantime) - and you don't see this as controlling?

I agree - counselling is the only way to go. You apparently can't talk to each other and this isn't going to go away by itself.

Do I think she has a drinking problem? No. Do I see some other character flaw, not a disease - yes.


I wouldn't tell you how I feel either because I wouldn't want to be out on the street... again at your whim.

Again - counselling. Individual and couples.

I remember many years ago a very good friend of mine had a drunken one-night-stand at a conference only about 6 months into a new marriage. She was in her early twenties and he was a bit older, similar to your situation.

We talked about it a lot at the time because she confided in me. She was madly in love with her husband but feeling overwhelmed by the thought of being married, the loss of 'freedom' and feeling that in some way, by being married, she had lost attractiveness as a female. Alcohol, her youth and an attentive suitor conspired in her downfall.

None of these things of course were justification for a one night stand. But it happened and she regretted it intensely whilst recognizing that there were things that needed to be addressed in her attitude towards her marriage.

Your wife's one night stand and her 'funk' is an indication that something is amiss in your relationship and that it needs to be addressed. It may be that you both have unrealistic expectations about what being married means, or that you have very different expectations. A counselor could really assist you to talk about yourselves, and hopefully to each other.

It doesn't have to be the end of the world or the end of the relationship.

In my friend's case, she chose not to tell her husband as she felt that it was her moment of madness and that she needed to deal with it on her own. Three children and many years later, they are still happy and together.

It is very hard to come to terms with the fact that your spouse has cheated on you. The emotional rollercoaster is a hell ride.
You have entered the first round and trying as hard as you can to make sense of this.
Unfortunately there is no real sense. What has been done has been done.
Your wife didn't just land in bed with a guy for nothing. To get further you have to stop the ride for a few minutes. Really look hard at your situation and be honest. Really honest only you know the full truth about YOU!
All marriages have their quirks, nobody is perfect.
You say that your wife said you were perfect in every way Warning sign nr 1... she wouldn't have strayed if this was true
You say you both have your own accounts etc etc Warning sign nr 2... How much do you dare to share?
You say that she fealt good for the one night Warning sign nr 3... what is she missing is it emotional or physical? Have you two been bickering recently do you nag each other over bagatelles, idiotic things, most people do.
You say she won't talk to you Warning sign nr 4... I think she has told you a lot just from the above warning signs... what else do you need to know? Sorry to be sarcastic but is it the colour of his boxers? You don't need any more details, the size of his manhood his performance... Warning sign nr 5 you are making this into a competition, beware that will either hurt you more or really take this disagreement to a much deaper level. Do you know yourself well enough?
She said she wanted to go to counseling... warning sign nr 6 She wants you to go too... maybe what she doesn't dare reveal about you will come out in counseling... Have you considered that counseling couples means counseling both?
If you are willing to save this I urge you to find out what you could have done better to meet her needs. Your marriage can be saved. Maybe this unfortunate affair can help you both to understanding each other better and honestly it can actually help make your relationship stronger if BOTH of you really want that.
If so you need to learn forgiveness. That will mean never throwing this in her face in the future.
Can you do it?
Good luck

I don't think that booting her out for a few days considering what she did, wasn't anything I wouldn't do, if I were in that situation.

It is better to have even a few days apart to think about things, and start talking again with calm, clear heads.

In a good marriage you can have all the independence you want, the freedom to live your life and reach your goals, with a supportive partner. Over time, the trust and respect and love just deepens.

If you have that already, and still feel that you have a need to 'find that spark' again, or re-live the excitement of being single, along with the single life, then there is a problem with that person, not necessarily the marriage itself.

I don't know what gets into people that they can so easily blame their partners for their lack of commitment or communication when these feelings come up. Refusing to talk about what you need or want is pretty basic to any relationship. If only one partner is wanting to listen and understand, and the other is refusing, then how do you fix it.

Somehow, when the 'independence' thing comes up, and a partner feels they are missing something, they don't like to share, because they are, at least psychologically, living that idea or plan that somehow, the grass is going to be greener on the other side.

Likely, if things are as you say, she will find out they aren't.

She sounds like a selfish person to me, and needs to get her priorities straight. The least she owes you is conversation.

If she needs to 'find herself', then all sorts of fault will be coming your way, because that has to be justified somehow. "He didn't pay enough attention to me" "he's always leaving the toilet seat up" "he won't do anything special or romantic" blah blah blah

I would insist on counselling, if only to see how serious she is about the marriage, and if she is willing and capable of doing what needs to be done in order to save it.

To be in a marriage where only one person wants it to work, is doomed.

Looking over my last post it can quite easily be misunderstood that I think that this was your fault but please don't think that.
I don't agree with infidelity in any shape or form. That is the worst hurt you can inflict on anyone. However, I was looking at it from the point of view that you wanted to save your marriage. In that case you have to see everything from all angles. You even have to see if you can do things better.
Sorry if there was any misunderstanding. My apologies.

I don't think that booting her out for a few days considering what she did, wasn't anything I wouldn't do, if I were in that situation.

It is better to have even a few days apart to think about things, and start talking again with calm, clear heads.

To be in a marriage where only one person wants it to work, is doomed.

Jake - I edited you a little bit but didn't change the wording of what remains.


I have no trouble with time apart. I have a problem with "my" husband booting me out and inviting me back, depending on the level of his hurt and his whim. That's all I was saying. If she had decided to leave I would have a different opinion - but she didn't. And I don't even know if she had a place to go. This type of behavior (throwing the person out) leads to everyone knowing a couple's business (because of them is seeking a place to live) and I think that is also destructive.

But as far as if only one person is trying, absolutely agree with you!

Don't be too hard on yourself.
For your marriage to work your wife needs to understand why she had the need to stray.
Just step back and observe, you will very quickly see that you are trying so hard to understand what has happened that you will not be able to see how you are reacting.
At this time it is really easy to be misunderstood, when a person is hurt they go into survival mode . At this stage it is very easy to take on the "why me" attitude.
Try to understand that you have done nothing to force her to do what she did. This was her choice and the reason lies in her weaknesses.
If you push her for the answer while she is feeling ashamed her brain will try to compensate and come up with all sorts of stupid reasons. This is a dangerous time for the survival of the relationship as many of the reasons she will tell herself are her own survival mechanisms taking over.
She may even convince herself that something died along the way, the all too famous " I love you but no longer in love with you lines... these all serve one purpose and one purpose only. Her brain is trying to convince her that what she did was OK, it was justified. If she doesn't manage this she will be stressed and in a turmoil. Reasoning always gives an easy way out.
Tell her that you will give her the space to think things through that you will forgive her, but to be able to do that you need her to acknowledge what she has done is not acceptable and that you will need her to come to you ( within 2 weeks for example ) and promise never to do this again. She needs to promise that she will communicate with you if she feels that things are going bad. At least then you can make decisions about your future together.

I don't think she is ready to deal with your hurt, and hers to. But whatever you do, be mindful of your own actions, and give the emotional dust for you both, time to settle.

I get that your hurt, and confused, and your mind, and heart are racing out of control, but it does no good in the long run for either of you, to act out of anger, and impulse at this time.

I think this is a time to back off any pressure for answers, and make an environment to talk honestly, and calmly, your goal, and a third party (counselor) can help you through this very painful emotional process.

We already know what she did was wrong for whatever reason, and beating her over the head over it will get you nowhere.

Getting help and support, to find solutions, and seeing what the real problems are that led to this selfish behavior, is what's needed, not emotional fighting, or impulsive actions.

I believe her cheating was but a symptom of a greater problem, and either you work together through it in a positive mature manner, or your doomed.

What has this got to do with your twisted view of marital relations? He's the victim here and has every right to demand some space.

But no, if a woman was here saying she threw here husband out and let him back, you would not have said anything lol.

You don't seem to be helping to solve the problem, just declaring what should and shouldn't be is irrelevant.


I read some of your other posts - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-member-discussions/debate-porn-411202-10.html#post2064976.

First, you are aware this is adult board, right?

Second, you have no idea what I would say or do if the situation were reversed, no idea at all.

Posting in two names?

"YOu are perfect" haha.. that is the "It is not you, it is me" speech.

She doesn't know why she cheated, and it is so perfect.
Well, Read "The Ways of a Superior Man" by David Deida.

You will find your answer there.

I found that book to preach male domination over females - did you read it before or after you wife cheated on you? Do you feel following the book caused her to cheat or helped you recover after the cheating?

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/marriage/should-leave-husband-414116.html#post2076139

I read the book after my wife's affair.
I feel the book has helped me to recover after the affair.

Before and during the affair, my wife would describe be as the perfect husband and father, too. That is because I capitulated to her wishes. At the time, We were doing Church Home Group studying "Love, Sex & Long Lasting Relationship" practicing "Agape Love" - Loving her no matter what, whether she deserves or not. (note: I have arrived at the conclusion as a man, Agape Love should be reserved only for God and not your partner).

I don't believe you have read the book. My wife may not be Liberal on woman's rights issue and is Pro-Life, etc... but she is very strong willed. No man is going to put her in her place, actually she puts me in my place. That is who she is... Anyway, we listened to the Audiobook version of "Ways of a Superior Man" on our drive for vacation. She agreed with what the author said.

Mostly it is understanding Gender Roles. To the extreme, it is like the 1950's, where Men are Men and Women are Women. The Masculine is about "Ending, Finale, Stable, etc." The Feminine is about "Dancing with Life, Ever Flowing & Changing." Whereas Masculine tries to End a conversation with solutions, the Feminine is all about the interaction whether it is positive or negative. Example of how it worked in my life, I am watching TV after 3 hours of cleaning... She blocks the TV and complaints about so and so... (understanding the roles)... oh... she wants to have an interaction.. I smile and listen and not argue that I did the work and it is not up to her standards and just listen and affirmation. I am not arguing my solution or that her observation is wrong or anything else... I don't even have to re-clean... The point was interaction and steering it to a positive as the Leadership role. The Perfect Nice Guy would accept the negative conversation and go do what she ask. The 1950's Man wouldn't be cleaning.

You are thinking the book is about the 1950's roles. It is not. Those are the extremes of the Gender Roles. It is about the man being in touch with his feminine too, BUT NOT to let it dominate his Masculine. IT is the Mastering the balance, because the Feminine needs the Masculine in order to produce the passion and excitement. Even Gay relationship requires a masculine and feminine roles, two masculine gay will not have a good sexual relationship.

What I think the problem is: The extreme Femininization of Man by society. Howard Sterns calls it "The 9ussfication of Men in America". We are talking about movies and TVs portrayal of "Nice Guy" as the sought after by women. In Reality, a Woman needs a shoulder to lean on, someone to make her feel secure and stable and establish limits. Otherwise all those nooks and crannies will be filled too much with fluff. Without a man, She rely only on the strength of herself and it is pretty lonely and don't know why she is cheating. Yeah Nice Guys get cheated on.

Other subtle example would be:

Nice Guy: What is your favorite restaurant and we will go there.

Superior Man: Let's try this new restaurant, I know you have never been there before.



A woman will enjoy the interaction more of trying something new (even if the food was bad) than going to a predictably of the good food at the same old place.

It is this understanding and Mastering balance that creates a Superior Man... NOT Dominating over the other, nor Capitulating to the other. It is harder to do finding the balance than going to the extreme roles of the 1950's man and the Nice Guy.

From talking to a few men, I noticed it is the VERY Strong Willed Women married to Nice Guys that are having the wives cheating on them.

Maybe that is all I am focused on, since it was my situation.
The 1950's men are the ones cheating on their wives.
Haha... Nice Guys can't even imagine cheating on their wives..

Other subtle example would be:

Nice Guy: What is your favorite restaurant and we will go there.

Superior Man: Let's try this new restaurant, I know you have never been there before.



A woman will enjoy the interaction more of trying something new (even if the food was bad) than going to a predictably of the good food at the same old place.

It is this understanding and Mastering balance that creates a Superior Man... NOT Dominating over the other, nor Capitulating to the other. It is harder to do finding the balance than going to the extreme roles of the 1950's man and the Nice Guy.



As far as I'm concerned, this is game playing. I don't want to have to wonder how to phrase everything I say in order to guarantee my partner will answer in a certain way and he feels the same. There is something to be said for truth and honesty in a relationship - I don't want to be controlled or played and my partner feels the same.

I also don't agree that "a woman will enjoy the interaction ... at the same old place" statement. You certainly cannot speak for all women. In fact, I'm not sure you can speak for any women.

As far as "In Reality, a Woman needs a shoulder to lean on, someone to make her feel secure and stable and establish limits. Otherwise all those nooks and crannies will be filled too much with fluff. Without a man, She rely only on the strength of herself and it is pretty lonely and don't know why she is cheating. Yeah Nice Guys get cheated on." What reality is this? Howard Stern reality? I put him in the same category as Judge Judy (when she's quoted) - good TV. Not much fact.

Lots of women "rely only" on themselves and get through life just fine. Believe it or not - again - I am a widow, I am not "pretty lonely" (although I do miss my late husband), I am surviving without a shoulder to lean on and I feel safe and secure and I do have self-imposed limits.

I have never known anyone who cheated and didn't know exactly why he/she did so. I interview people who have cheated, people who have been cheated on - none of them seem confused about the issues. Maybe they don't tell each other but they sure discuss it with me!

And, yes, whether you believe it or not, I read the book.

What is your wife's occupation? I am having difficulty with the concept that she is going along with any of this.

As far as I'm concerned, this is game playing. I don't want to have to wonder how to phrase everything I say in order to guarantee my partner will answer in a certain way and he feels the same. There is something to be said for truth and honesty in a relationship - I don't want to be controlled or played and my partner feels the same.

I also don't agree that "a woman will enjoy the interaction ... at the same old place" statement. You certainly cannot speak for all women. In fact, I'm not sure you can speak for any women.

And, yes, whether you believe it or not, I read the book.



I am sorry if I offend you... but that is a solution that is working for me.
It is keeping my family together after an affair.

It is keeping my two girls with two parents performing like a team in the house.
My approach is my approach. My understanding is my understanding.
This is what I see so far from my path that I am taken.

Forgive me for implying everyone has to see it this way... it is not the only way.
However, if a man is being cheated on by a very strong willed woman, I believe this is the circumstances behind what is being played out. The message is There is Hope. Usually the Nice Guy Husband do not want to end a marriage, they still want their wife back, imperfect and all.

I can see your aversion to "Playing a Game".
At First Like you, I was really pissed off about it being a Game and controlling and how shallow. In MUCH MORE ways than you, I was living in it. Yes, It goes against my Christian values of Honesty and Truth. To me, it was deceitful and it wasn't me.

Than when I realize the MAN who tried to steal my wife, circumvented me by being the Man in her life and playing the role for her... I have to fill the ROLE of being the MAN in her life. All those other things like 50/50 shared leadership, doing more than half my share of household chores, making breakfast & lunch & dinners, doing most of the laundry, etc... DON'T count as being a Man in her life. That is just being the "Perfect husband" to be cheated on without knowing the reason.

I am not talking for any women. I am talking to a man the "Perfect Husband" about my search and result and theory of why he is being cheated on. Your fight for Woman's Right is over, long ago. Now it is just beating up of Man to feebleness "I am what she ask for, why did she cheat on me?" You can't answer this question for this man, why did it happen. Because these roles are hard wired into us, We can try to reason it out, but we can't.

I am trying to learn something from you... what else do you have?
Yes, women do enjoy the interaction... do you have a better theory or idea.. or wait you didn't write a book... you are just interacting here for interacting sake (or call it arguing for arguing sake). And I am trying to end the conversation with the solution with this man.

Haha... I am in touch with my feminine side... so I like this interaction too.

You Girls know some of my background.

How about you girls,
Are you girls in a successful marriage without cheats??

Are you strong willed and your husband is perfect?

Do you know the pain and rage after being cheated on?
Do you how to forgive and than forgiving evvvvery single day because you can't forget?
Do you know what it means to give yourself so that your kids will continue to have a happy home with two happy parents?
Do you know Time actually help you forget & that's why it heals?

Other subtle example would be:

Nice Guy: What is your favorite restaurant and we will go there.

Superior Man: Let's try this new restaurant, I know you have never been there before.



A woman will enjoy the interaction more of trying something new (even if the food was bad) than going to a predictably of the good food at the same old place.

It is this understanding and Mastering balance that creates a Superior Man... NOT Dominating over the other, nor Capitulating to the other. It is harder to do finding the balance than going to the extreme roles of the 1950's man and the Nice Guy.

Something you might want to keep in mind is that you are confusing being a partner and being a boss. A partner asks for his/her partner's input on what they as a couple will do. A boss informs his employee what to they are doing and the employee is expected to just deal with it or quit/be fired.

You are also confusing enjoying the interaction of being with someone you care about with being forced to deal with a bad experience just because you are with the person you care about. Good memories in a familiar place are worth a lot more than a new experience that wasn't needed or wanted being forced on a person.

It all boils down to a marriage is partnership that both individuals have to be invested in and willing to work with the other person. Communication goes both ways and both people have to be open to the needs and desires of the other person. No relationship can survive if one person makes all the decisions.

I certainly hope that the op and his wife are working together, now, to fix their problems.

I have been married 33 years, and my husband has never cheated because he knows I'd throw him off a cliff and shoot him on the way down.

There are many books on how to define feminine, masculine, and everything between. The key to a successful marriage, is not to assume anything. You may think that a certain role, or way of thinking, will bring out desired results, but what you are left with essentially are a lot of results that were not anticipated.

Thus the characteristics of an undefined species, that needs more common sense, and fewer road maps.

On any given day a person can change their mind on any one 'issue' or reaction to a topic or situation. Working through a problem, or solving a problem of a personal decision, is best left to simple old fashioned communication.

We cannot apply logic to anyone or anyone elses' behaviour, because that is the exclusive domain of the person that ownes it.

You can take responsibility all you like, but the bottom line is, change has to happen with the person who has, for example, decided to have an affair. Responding to a partner in a manner that shares the responsibility, simply lets the other person off the hook.

Rebuild- of course, if it is possible. Accept that your trusted partner has cheated on you, but re-writing the rule book, isn't going to help, nor is assuming some of the responsibility.

To decide to cheat, and follow through with a plan to do so, makes a person in my opinion, equal to a racoon in mating season. It's nature in its rawest form that disregards everything but the call to nature.

Not saying people are animlas, but, there are similarities in their behaviour.

Myself personally, I would never waste time on having a relationship with a racoon.

You Girls know some of my background.

How about you girls,
Are you girls in a successful marriage without cheats???

Are you strong willed and your husband is perfect?

Do you know the pain and rage after being cheated on?
Do you how to forgive and than forgiving evvvvery single day because you can't forget?
Do you know what it means to give yourself so that your kids will continue to have a happy home with two happy parents?
Do you know Time actually help you forget & that's why it heals?


You and I should meet in person, complete with plastic bop bats. Girls? You are calling us girls?

Anyway - yes, I was in a very successful marriage. He never cheated; I never cheated. I also consider an emotional connection to be cheating and that never happened, either.

Yes, I know the pain and rage. I investigate people who cheat, I follow them, I report to the injured spouse. It's happened to my friends. It's happened to members of my family. Maybe it's never first-hand happened to me so maybe the pain and rage are different because I'm a bystander. I realize that no one who has never been a widow knows what it's like to be a widow; maybe it's the same with cheating/being cheated on.

We had a very clear understanding - there would be no forgiving, there would be no forgetting. The marriage would be over. I don't think we needed those grounds rules to stay faithful (I know I didn't) but I sure knew the ground rules. If those had not been the ground rules we would have stayed single and dating.

And, frankly, I don't know that the sex act with another partner would have been the last straw had that happened. The lying (and an affair involves betrayal and lying) would have been the end. Could I have ever looked him in the face and lied to him? No. Could he have looked me in the face and lied to me? I very much doubt it.

Yes, I know how to forgive. I don't have a perfect life (believe it or not). Just because my husband(s) never cheated on me doesn't mean I've never been betrayed - and, yes, I've moved forward. As far as two happy children with two happy parents - sometimes these situations end up with an elephant in the room. I hope that's not the case with you.

And as far as time helping you forget and heal - maybe in your case. IOn my case (and we are talking different situatons) heal, yes. Forget, never.

And, yes, I'm strong willed. My husband was also strong willed. He was a professional, take-charge guy in the workplace but not at home. He never once attempted to control me nor did I attempt to control him. It worked because I was a person with a life, he was a person with a life, we made a life together.

And, perfect, sure he was perfect. All widows were married to perfect men! :)

And I have to say - when I first read what you posted I thought, "What a sexist jerk." Now that you've posted more I see where you're coming from and I likewise enjoy the exchange of ideas.

And I somewhat disagree with Jake - my husband, had he cheated, would have WISHED I pushed him off a cliff and shot him on the way down because it would have been easier and faster than the slow, painful death he would have suffered.

I called you "girls" because I didn't want to say "guys", in which I thought you might be offended.

The way I see it... you are going to be offended no matter what.
So, No more apologies from me.


HAHA!! I didn't read you whole post... so I (hehe) I will apologize...
I am sorry for calling you girls... but it was meant in terms of "Hey you guys" as in ( I hate this term) "y'all".

No problem - read my post. You may learn something, particularly if this is about exchanging thoughts and ideas.

And I'll ask the question again - what is your wife's profession?

Anyway, Back on Topic.

When my wife and I was in our Church Group Counseling, The Husband and Wife Counseling Team mentioned that something ODD has happened within the last 5 years.

Before, it was the wives trying to drag the husband into counseling... than there was a reversal... Now it is the husbands trying to drag the wives into counseling.

I have been a kind of junior psychologist trying to figure out why did it happen to me and why is this happening to others. My conclusion is as described. I am not blaming it on my wife, nor am I saying it was my fault. We are talking about having communications (even one of our counselor mentioned we had good communication skills with one another), having a faith, being sensitive to her needs, being a great dad, etc... What was wrong? This is the angle, my Point of View, my questions that pointed to the approach I take to the problem.

I don't think any of you Ladies (haha, not Girls) are coming from where I am from and that is OKAY... because other Point of Views are what I am missing.

So, your point of Woman Strength is where I started from right after college... After years, I don't find it valid for a good relationship because I have been there and done that and all it got me was arguments and wasted time with each other.

I am beginning to believe Strong Willed Women have a hard time with a Capitulating Husband. Because of the lost of Respect.

In Reference to your Game comment:
Like I said, it did sound like playing a game to me too.
So, what is the difference when a woman puts on make up and where very sexy current fashion and heels... and a man displays his Higher Values and not being Needy and displaying Confidence. She is displaying attraction of imagery in which that is what a man does visual. He is displaying attraction in ways of how he acts (confidence and goals) in which that is what a woman wants in a man.

I think this is the answer to why Passion for each other dies after a few years of marriage. So, yes it was a Game when you are trying to date someone... so why does it have to end after kids. So the wife buys some sexy stuff (which appeals visually for him) and what is the husband to do... wear some sexy stuff?? I would if it works but women don't operate on the visual. That is why you can have Big Belly Men at a basketball game displaying themselves and dancing with confidence and women are going crazy... haha, I don't know if this is true, but you don't see women with big hairy belly dancing at a basketball game and guys would be cheering for them.

Ok I have more questions than answers.
I don't know the answers, I am just on a path to seeking answers... this is only what I know so far.

Men are visual, Women are not.
Therefore, the game is played very differently from differing points of view.

She is a very successful Accountant.

I also don't agree that "a woman will enjoy the interaction ... at the same old place" statement. You certainly cannot speak for all women. In fact, I'm not sure you can speak for any women.

As far as "In Reality, a Woman needs a shoulder to lean on, someone to make her feel secure and stable and establish limits. Otherwise all those nooks and crannies will be filled too much with fluff. Without a man, She rely only on the strength of herself and it is pretty lonely and don't know why she is cheating. Yeah Nice Guys get cheated on."

Lots of women "rely only" on themselves and get through life just fine. Believe it or not - again - I am a widow, I am not "pretty lonely" (although I do miss my late husband), I am surviving without a shoulder to lean on and I feel safe and secure and I do have self-imposed limits.


OKAY... re-reading your post.

That is great for you.
You want to be independent and self-reliant and that is what you have.

I want a successful relationship, a relationship that last a lifetime (because that is all I can take).

That quote about "new restaurant" was paraphrase from the book and quoted from a study, basically saying it is better to take her to a new place with unknown expectation than that of an old place she already has a known expectation. It is meant for the Nice Guy not to do the same old, same old thinking that will ignite passsion in a marriage... it just gets boring.

So, I guess my approach to the question is still "Why did she Cheated?"
That statement you disagree with, doesn't apply to you nor any women.. because you wouldn't understand what the Guy is thinking... "I want to please her, where is her favorite restaurant to take her to". This thinking points to the direction of "Lack of excitement, doing the same old thing at the same old place."

So, I have to redefine... This stuff is for the Nice Guy... it might re-ignite your wife's passion again and gain Respect again.

What is your solution?

Something you might want to keep in mind is that you are confusing being a partner and being a boss. A partner asks for his/her partner's input on what they as a couple will do. A boss informs his employee what to they are doing and the employee is expected to just deal with it or quit/be fired.

You are also confusing enjoying the interaction of being with someone you care about with being forced to deal with a bad experience just because you are with the person you care about. Good memories in a familiar place are worth a lot more than a new experience that wasn't needed or wanted being forced on a person.

It all boils down to a marriage is partnership that both individuals have to be invested in and willing to work with the other person. Communication goes both ways and both people have to be open to the needs and desires of the other person. No relationship can survive if one person makes all the decisions.

I certainly hope that the op and his wife are working together, now, to fix their problems.


I didn't say Boss. The man who cheated with my wife... that was his saying "You're fired" meaning divorcing his wife.

Partners (50/50)... that was where I started at... After 18 years of marriage, I find it.. there are more conflicts and arguments in this type of structure. I am not a Tyrant in any sense. But as a Husband and Father you have to be the Head of the household and step up to make some decisions.

My wife and I have a "Di-act" (Don't know the spelling)... but it is when we sit face to face from each other (no tables or anything), and we hold hands. One listens and the other talks for 1 or 2 minutes about feelings (no words like "Always" "Never" etc) and the one listening only has positive affirmations "yes"(no rolling eyes). Than flip roles.


"Good memories in a familiar place are worth a lot more than a new experience that wasn't needed or wanted being forced on a person. "
You are going on specifics in your frame of mind, Let me explain... "Hey, lets go to that new place, I've heard about without the kids..." She can say yes or no. Versus... "What restaurant do you want to go to?"
It is very subtle, but it does have an affect.
I am not talking about a special old place. I am talking about you being bored with going to the same old place. Bored with the same guy... Lost of the excitement in the marriage... Look, I hope you never lose that magic between you and your husband. I am talking to the guy who don't understand how they lost that passion and she doesn't know why either.

No problem - read my post. You may learn something, particularly if this is about exchanging thoughts and ideas.




With your experience and job and interactions... why do women cheat?

The majority I talk to cheat for the attention - not for the sex.

See that is new to me... I never came across cheating for attention.

Is that the Man, Woman or Both?

Hey this happens.. see she was drunk so she definitely had some trouble or was sad.thats why she drank so much to get ridof her problems and she made a mistake.I hope she comes to you and says how much she loves you and will never do it again.try spending more time with her,share her feelings.I know you deserve an apology.see a counsellor.am sure it will be allright

If you read what the OP said, she said it was for the attention !

Both men and women seek the attention - and I'll throw this in, too. Find a woman is cheating and "most of the time" the man says, "It's over." That's his first, knee jerk reaction.

A woman, upon finding that the man is cheating, says, "What does she look like?"

My experience only - women cheat with men they know (in the workplace, in the neighborhood, in the circle of friends). Men tend to cheat with strangers. Yes, some cheat at the workplace but "most" cheat with strangers.

There are also - and I've posted this before - in my experience people I call serial cheaters vs one-time cheaters. A one-time person cheats, learns, carries the guilt, it never happens again. Serial cheaters enjoy the thrill of the chase and the "catch" and go on to cheat again and again and again.

One of the first things I ask people I date - and I am dating - is whether they have ever cheated. Some people lie. Some people tell the truth - and this I respect. If a person cheated on someone else, that doesn't mean he'll cheat on me. I also have NEVER knowingly (and I'm sure some slipped on by my radar) dated a married man OR a separated man. I don't want to be the other woman or the interim woman.

And, yes, my late husband and I were both divorced when we met and married.

This will shock you - I met him through friends, he asked me to marry him on our first date. I thought he was crazy. We were both in dating relationships which we both ended but it took a month. We began dating in mid-September. We married in very early December. Crazy? Yes. Did it work? Yes.

He never took me for granted and I never took him for granted. It wasn't all about gifts and big evenings. It was the little things on both sides.

So I have no answers about relationships - if anyone would give me "our" time frame I'd say they were crazy. Maybe we were but, as I said, it worked.

I believe you said your wife cheated with a neighbor/friend. How do you handle that? How does his wife handle that? Sounds like a constant reminder and I wonder how you work that out.

I think this is the answer to why Passion for each other dies after a few years of marriage. So, yes it was a Game when you are trying to date someone... so why does it have to end after kids. So the wife buys some sexy stuff (which appeals visually for him) and what is the husband to do... wear some sexy stuff??? I would if it works but women don't operate on the visual. That is why you can have Big Belly Men at a basketball game displaying themselves and dancing with confidence and women are going crazy... haha, I don't know if this is true, but you don't see women with big hairy belly dancing at a basketball game and guys would be cheering for them.

Ok I have more questions than answers.
I don't know the answers, I am just on a path to seeking answers... this is only what I know so far.

Men are visual, Women are not.
Therefore, the game is played very differently from differing points of view.


I don't know that passion dies - I think it becomes something deeper but I found that while there are moments when sex is consoling or reassuring or just plain feels good, there are/were times when it is still pure animal passion.

My husband and I would be out somewhere, often with friends, and he would give me what I called "the look" across the room, sort of a looking me up and down and narrowing his eyes and I knew we were right back where we started - at least for that night.

Maybe not everyone maintains that high level of physical attraction but I found it was always there.

I believe you said your wife cheated with a neighbor/friend. How do you handle that? How does his wife handle that? Sounds like a constant reminder and I wonder how you work that out.


Josh, is a serial Cheater and a master gamer.
I had to learn the Game, so I can understand what he did.

Josh is about 47 years old. There were about 12 families in this neighborhood of 200 that were in this circle of friends. I was a very friendly guy, I knew many of my neighbors... at least 25%.
He has football watching party every Sunday in his garage with Two big screen TVs on NFL ticket. Sometime it is steak or hot dogs or Gumpo, etc. He would also arrange for the annual Cabo trip, which he owns like 5 time shares. And he has a Home base business that he claims to be very successful and my wife wouldn't have to work outside of home ever.
Some of the other families would throw, X-mas parties, Halloween Parties, Trip to Race Track, Las Vegas Trip, New Year's Party, Birthdays, etc. Just a lot of drinking. Josh and 4 other neighbors and I even hiked down the Grand Canyon. As luck would have it, He and I got separated from the rest of the group and I got him out of the Canyon. He was really out of shape for this. A month after the Grand Canyon trip I found out about the affair.

Basically, we are not friends with these other 12 families anymore.
Their attitude is more of... let's not deal with their personal issues and be in the circle.

From his last neighborhood, he had 4 housewives.
From my neighborhood, he had 5 housewives.
His MO... is to target weak Type B personality Husbands with slim blond wife.
After the Affair with my wife, Josh got another housewife with a weak husband... it is still a secret.
Three month ago he divorced his 4th wife. She was still married to her first husband when they started an affair.
Just a month ago, another neighbor (in the circle and was at the Grand Canyon trip) found out his wife cheated on him with Josh.

People say it is 50/50... not all Josh's fault, but these people just don't know how the game is played.


I handle it by knowing I am going to be the thorn in their life when they see me. I know he will self-destruct.

No, I don't think she has a drinking problem. We are together all week and I think I would know. It is common for us to have drinks on the weekend or a glass of wine during the week. I just think the drunk part might have been the difference between acting or not acting that night. I think there was a problem before that night. She says she is not sure how long she has felt in this funk. I am not sure if it is that the honeymoon has gone away??? Or b/c she grew up with seperated parents that she figures this will happen?? A year ago she wanted to start having kids??? Now many of her friends have had their first kids or are pregnant. She met some new friends who are all single or just dating. She is a couple of years younger than me. Is it to early for her to be going through some mid-life crisis??

Once a person cheats on you things will never be the same. I hope that your situation will be different than most. One looses total trust in in a partner even though some of us would like to think that it was a one time deal. I do believe that some mistakes could be forgiven but cheating (unfaithfulness) in a marriage, never. Just because one is in a (funk) does not mean that you should sleep with another man. As drunk as your wife was she appears to have remembered that she slept with someone else. I thought that mid life was still mid life. She is too young to be going through this. You are forgiving now, but will you be able to totally erase this incident from your mind. In my country we have a saying, (once a cheater always a cheater). All of us have been there at one time or another. Love can be blind. I wish you all the best

People say it is 50/50... not all Josh's fault, but these people just don't know how the game is played.


I handle it by knowing I am going to be the thorn in their life when they see me. I know he will self-destruct.



Maybe its easier for you to think in terms of the affair being totally "Josh's" fault with no fault on the part of your wife.

I think it takes two people.

Unless he hit her with a stun gun I find her 50% at fault - maybe he's a charmer, maybe he's not. I don't know. I've met plenty of charmers in my life, some of them extremely wealthy, some of them intriguing, many of them what you would term "dangerous." I never cheated with any of them.

This discussion has gone on on this board before - the man was married. Why would your wife have sex with another woman's husband? (I believe this is the reverse of the question you are asking about the man's relationship with your wife.)

This man offered your wife something that she either wanted or needed - I don't know what it is. Maybe you know, maybe you don't. I'm sure she knows. Whether she tells you, that's another story.

If your philosophy as you have expressed it gives you peace, then that it works for you, your wife and your marriage.

I would think if you ARE at peace with the situation you would not be on AMHD posting about it - but perhaps posting about it is what gives you peace.

Yes, I know my wife had a choice & is partially at fault... not just Josh... that is why he is still alive. Scary huh? I had a lot of rage in me. Good thing my Pastor was available to see me in such short notice.

Yes, I do understand Cheating is a symptom of something that is wrong in our relationship. Josh smelled it & hooked on to it.

I was at peace until I heard the news of another husband (a month ago) finding out his wife is cheating with Josh. Josh even have a few neighbors defending him. I was going to fire off an email, but thought what good would it do, these people will still believe what they believe.

So, I write in here to vent. The email I written is tucked away as draft. I keep my honor.

Is it in the gene or is it taught from what is seen as a child?

Either way my wife has it bad from both cheating parents & incest.

My template is just as bad. Parent yelling the hell out of each other over the littliest things, but always stayed together.



Josh offered my wife everything even a job that she can stay at home & security. I know his game. An unwitting husband & a dissatisfied wife in a brief troubled period of a marriage & a bunch of empty promises is no match for his Masterfully played games.