There are various Scriptures in the old testement that clearly states that the dead are asleep until the 2nd coming of Christ, And in the new testment it says something entirely different. In Ecclesiastes 9:5 & 9:6 it states clearly that the Dead are just asleep and that they have no more conscious and no more love or hate as their memory has been wiped out. It even states something similar in Job 14:12, also in psalm 146:4 .

Now the New Testement states something different, In Luke 16 Verses 19 to 31. It clearly states how the Dead were very much conscious, even about their own living relatives, it is given the impression that the Spirit goes to Hades when it departs. Even in 1 Peter 3 verses 19 to 20 it says how Jesus went to preached to the Spirits in Prison, which means there is a spirit prison that the Spirit goes to when it departs. And in 1 Peter 4 Verse 6 it clearly states that Jesus even preached the Gospel to the Dead, which means they cannot be sleeping if Jesus is preaching to them. That is why the Bible is very hard to understand and this site alone clearly backs up the old testement.

The Truth About Death (http://www.truthaboutdeath.com/)
:confused: :confused: :confused:

Hello sorrow, you missed the scripture that is for the church, read 1 thessalonians chapter 4 verses 13--18 the apostle paul explains to the church that those that are in christ have not died but sleep until his coming.

Also does anyone know if, when the 2nd coming of Christ comes, will all of us know each other, meaning will I be together again with my mother and father ? Who I miss so much.

Also how does that explain about Lazarus and the Rich man, when they both died the rich man saw Larazus in Abrahams bosom and asked if Lazarus can dip his finger in some cold water so he can just touch the tip of his tongue for he was in anguish. Abraham told him in your life you had your good things, but Lazarus did not so now he is comforted. Then the rich man asked Abraham if he could go to his house and warn his brothers so they don't come to this horrible place. This clearly shows that they were not asleep and still conscious of what was going on. Also how did Christ Preach the gospel to the Dead and the Spirits in prison if they are asleep ? I don't understand, perhaps they mean asleep in Body and soul, But the spirit goes back to God who gave it.

In Ecclesiastes 12 verses 5 to 7 clearly talks about the " Silver Cord " snapping which is the Cord that is attached to our Spirit. And the Dust returns to the earth and the Spirit returns to God who Gave it.

Also in Sirach addresses that we must mourn for a while, but then it is time that we go on with our lives. We ought to be happy that the Dead have reached their heavenly home, for the Dead are now living. Sirach 38 verses 16-23.

In the NT the scripture at Ephesians 4:1 helps us to see what Jesus was talking about when he "preached to the dead."
It reads, "furthermore it is YOU God made alive although YOU were dead in YOUR tresspasses and sins." - meaning that Jesus preached to those "dead" spiritually speaking.

2 Pet 2:4 calls the "prison" for angel that sinned Tartarus. The angels are not immortal but can and did sin against God resulting in being tossed into the dense pit of Tartarus as punishment, waiting for judgement.

John 5:28,29 tells us to "not marvel at this because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgement."
Rev 21:4 "he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." This a promise that will soon be realised for all who put faith in our creator to see dead loved ones again and not have to worry about death anymore.

Sorry that's all I've got time to discuss tonight. Time for some z's :)

In the NT the scripture at Ephesians 4:1 helps us to see what Jesus was talking about when he "preached to the dead."
It reads, "furthermore it is YOU God made alive although YOU were dead in YOUR tresspasses and sins." - meaning that Jesus preached to those "dead" spiritually speaking.

2 Pet 2:4 calls the "prison" for angel that sinned Tartarus. The angels are not immortal but can and did sin against God resulting in being tossed into the dense pit of Tartarus as punishment, waiting for judgement.

John 5:28,29 tells us to "not marvel at this because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgement."
Rev 21:4 "he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." This a promise that will soon be realised for all who put faith in our creator to see dead loved ones again and not have to worry about death anymore.

Sorry that's all I've got time to discuss tonight. Time for some z's :)

Ok so if Jesus speaked to us " Spiritually Speaking " That means in the Spirit we are alive.
As it is only our Bodies and Soul that are asleep, But the Spirit goes back to God so since we are Spiritually able to hear the Gospel that means upon Death we are made alive in the Spirit, that is the interpetation that I gather from that content.

Ok I have another question since according to the Holy Bible the Dead are Supposed to be asleep until the 2nd coming of Christ, then how is it that a lot of people, especially children are seeing Ghosts ? And some people are even having Conversations with these so called apparitions ? There has been just too many cases I am hearing about seeings Ghosts of the Dearly departed, for it to be a hoax, lie, hallucination or such. Some people may make up a story just to be saying something, but there has to be some amount of truth in some of those cases especially with kids, as they have nothing to gain by making that up. They have seen their Dead Grandfather, or Dead parent or some other relative who has passed on.

Also there are many books out that are Non-Fiction that claim to Actual hauntings of places where things have happened, especially I am hearing that there are a lot of churches that people have seen ghosts and some of them are in manhattan here in NYC.
So some of them may be saying it just for publicity, but others have to be real as all of them can't be a lie. Behind every tale or legend there is a basis in reality to it.

There are various Scriptures in the old testement that clearly states that the dead are asleep until the 2nd coming of Christ, And in the new testment it says something entirely different. In Ecclesiastes 9:5 & 9:6

The first thing to remember is that Ecclesiastes is not a teaching on life after death, but a teaching of life and our insignificance before All Mighty God.

Ecclesiastes 9:5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:6
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.[/quote]


it states clearly that the Dead are just asleep and that they have no more conscious and no more love or hate as their memory has been wiped out.

That is basically true. When we die, our children remember us for a time. But then, our grave markers get old and no one comes to put flowers on them anymore. Then, one day, we are forgotten.

I had a kind of experience of this when I quit my last job 10 years ago. I had worked very hard to put in a local area network which would permit the flow of work in the office from one desk to another.

When I went back one day to visit the office, 90% of the people were strangers to me and the network was gone. It was replaced by a mainframe. So much for my legacy.


It even states something similiar in Job 14:12, also in psalm 146:4 .
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[/quote]

Sleep is frequently equated with death because although the body rests, person is alive. It is in sleep when we mostly dream, right? And we aren't considered to wake up until our bodies rise up.

So, this verse is referring to the Last Day, when our bodies will rise from the sleep of death to join our spirits.


Psalm 146 4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Psalm 146 is telling you to have faith in God and not in man.


3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, because men perish from this life but God does not. 4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

If you read the verse before, it makes more sense. It is not a teaching on the after life, but a teaching on faith in God.


Now the New Testement states something different, In Luke 16 Verses 19 to 31. It clearly states how the Dead were very much conscious, even about their own living relatives, it is given the impression that the Spirit goes to Hades when it departs.

Correct. That is why we believe in Purgatory.


Even in 1 Peter 3 verses 19 to 20 it says how Jesus went to preached to the Spirits in Prison, which means there is a spirit prison that the Spirit goes to when it departs.

Also correct.


And in 1 Peter 4 Verse 6 it clearly states that Jesus even preached the Gospel to the Dead, which means they cannot be sleeping if Jesus is preaching to them.

It does not teach that their bodies aren't sleeping. It teaches that their souls are very much alive and aware.


That is why the Bible is very hard to understand and this site alone clearly backs up the old testement.

Don't go back to that site. But keep studying the Bible.

Here's an excellent free Bible study from a Catholic perspective:
Welcome to the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology (http://www.salvationhistory.com/)

Here's another:
Agape Bible Study (http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/)

I hope that helped.

May God bless you,

Sincerely,

De Maria

I believe, and this is only a well thought out opinion, that we have to make a distinction between the objective and the subjective views of "where" the dead in Christ are.

Objectively, when a person dies they leave TIME. They are immediately at judgement day with no TIME in between because they enter eternity and are no longer in the realm of time... that we are born into and leave "later".

But, to us and all who are still in time they are in the grave. We know that Jesus conquered death for us. It has no hold on us. We are alive in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But in the TIME of the world, the dead can normally no longer interact with the living or even "praise God" from the grave. And we who are still in time can't even envision being eternal. We can't understand how any movement can occur without time because to us TIME is a series of snapshots of where things were, are and will be.

From our perspective they are "asleep" in our time until we, "who are still alive" see the Lord return on judgement day. From our perspective, we will both meet together in the air on the same day to be gathered by the angels with Jesus.

revdrgade: great answer! I've been trying to say that exact thing but couldn't put it into words. Thanks!

In Sorrow,
I agree somewhat with revdrgade regarding those whose bodies have died and the fact of out time and God's time.
I do believe what Jesus said that the bead of body are alive for God is "The God of the living" when speaking of person long dead of body.
We Catholics and some others also believe in Purgatory when our sinful nature is purged so that we can enter heaven purely clean of and sin or nature thereof.
That is also biblicly based.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

There are some people who believe that once a man is physically dead his spirit is annihilated. The bible doesn't teach that. Either we are alive in heaven with Christ or alive in hell apart from Christ. The term soul sleep is also used. That means our soul exists in an unconscious state. Although the scriptures use the word sleep, it always refers to the believer and is Paul's way of describing the gentle passage into God's presence. The Apostle Paul made it clear that absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Maggie 3

Maggie 3,
I believe that the soul lives on after death of the body.
The body is what is asleep till reserection time.
God is the God of the living, not the dead.
Death of the soul is referred to as being in Hell away from God.
Many often say or pray that persons who have die rest in peace.
That is for the body.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, do you believe that this body we currently inhabit will return to where it was made according to Gen 2:7? Or does your religion teach that this body will live forever?

I trust that those that fall asleep have fallen tired, because they do not hear the voice of Christ. Christ exampled this in all the disciples, that they fell asleep when Christ went be with His Father in prayer. HIS command was clearly spoken to them all to watch (stay awake) yet 3 SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE times, Christ came back to find them asleep. Christ does not want us to grow tired, but instead says, My Sheep hear My Voice and Follow Me.

Mark 14:37 And HE cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? Couldest not thou watch one hour?

Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

We today are to stay awake and not enter into temptation. Do as Christ has shown us by following HIS steps. Even though Christ is with the Father in Heaven, we should hear HIS Voice.

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow HIS steps

Why? The answer is written:

1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

~Christ leds us, hear HIS Voice

450donn,
I believe in the resurrection of the body, in a new form, that of a glorified body as Jesus has.
It can pass though locked doors and walls and disappear and appear instantly a long distance away as Jesus did.
In addition to living eternally, who knows what else such a body can do?
Peace and kindness.
Fred

450donn,

It can pass though locked doors and walls and disappear and appear instantly a long distance away as Jesus did.

Fred

I have real issues with this sort of nonsense. Are you telling me that our resurrected bodies will be ghost like? Where is that bit of nonsense in scriptures, or did you get that one from some man? Or are you trying to read into something that you were told?

450donn,
I did NOT say or infer "ghost like".
I said like Jesus has and had after he rose from the dead.
If you read the bible about that you will see that Jesus did as I described.
The bible indicates that that is the sort of body those resurrected in the Lord will have.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Again you are giving opinions without scriptural backing. Either use scripture to back up your outlandish comments or please stop it!

450donn,
Sorry, but if you don't know the bible well enough to know that I am referring to holy Scripture I'm all done with you and that.
I go by the bible and I do not have the time to look up and type in passages word for word.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

So instead of insults why not try and enlighten me? All I ask is that you use scriptures to back up your ridiculous notions. You don't so all I can do is assume that you have none and that your comments are only ramblings of someone who is blind to the word of God.

450donn,
Wrong assumption on your part.
I have told you why I often do not type in word for word what the bible says.
When I have the time I will do so.
I assumed something on your part and that is that you are not familiar enough with the bible to recognize what I referred to.
I might be wrong but that's what it appeared to be for me.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

AHHH Fred therein lies your problem. If I were to make judgments about you based on what you said here.

"You surprised me. I did not know that you "were" a RC.
You mentioned some of the bad news about the RC which if you knew history well you would know that much of it is distorted, exagerated, of is not true.
You failed to mention what the protestant did and in some cases are still doing to Catholics.
It is far worse than ANYTHING The Church did.
Believe me, that is true.
Your admission of "having been" a Catholic and what you are saying now tells me something about you.
I firmly believe that ANYONE who understands the Catholic Church and its teaching well will NEVER leave That Church of Jesus Christ.
So it tells me that a best you were Catholic in name only.
But if you were confirmed a Catholic then you swore an oath to ALWAYS be a Catholic and to stand by it, explain it, teach it, and raise your children in it.
Were you confirmed?
Once a true Catholic ALWAYS a true Catholic.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Then I would naturally come to the conclusion that you are a brainwashed member of some fanatic cult. And based solely on what you have posted here and other places I would believe myself to be correct.
See how what you write can be construed to mean a lot of different things. Like I said unless you can back up a statement with scripture, In my opinion you are only spouting words that you given by another human. Ergo a cult leader!

In Luke 16 we learn about what happens after we die. Everone who
Died before Jesus was crueified, to pay for sins of mankind went to
Sheol, it means, "the place of the dead". Sheol was divided into two compartments, separated by a great gulf. One side was filled with fire and torment. The other side was a place called "Abraham's bosom"
Or paradise. Those who loved God would go to paradise or Abraham's
Bosom side of sheol. The reason they couldn't go directly to heaven
Is because the blood of Jesus Christ had not been shed. So paradise was simply a waiting room. Abraham a friend of God would greet them there. Those who did not believe in God went to the torment side of sheol.
Although there was this great gulf between the two sides, they could call
Out to one another. In Eph. 4:8-9 tell us that before Jesus ascended
Into heaven, He first descended into the lower parts of the earth and
Led those in Abraham's bosom up to heaven. So Abraham's bosom no longer exists. In Luke 16 it tells about a rich man, in hell calling out to
Lazarus, that is in Abraham's bosom, to help him. Even though they
Were in sheol after there death, they new everything that had happen
In the past, they were not sleeping. There bodies were left behind.
The bible tells us the rich man died and was buried, then went to hell.
The rich man could think and remember his life on earth and was
Begging Laza rus, who was in paradise, to help him.
2Cor. 5, Tells about our new bodies that the Lord will gives us someday. After we die we can no longer make choices, we get what
We choose here and now so don't make any wrong choices.
Be prepared to meet the Lord.

Love and Blessing, Maggie 3

Maggie 3,
Very good. The fire side of Sheol is also called the pit. It is hell.
Some astronamers have speculated that a black hole is a pit of no escape.
Interesting, eh?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

In 1Peter3:19&20 We read that Jesus preached to the spirits who were
disobedient in the day of Noah. Genesis 6 say they were disobedient,
most wicked, and terrible of all demons. It was to these spirits that
Jesus preached too, and the ones that will be released during the tribulation, they will cause much pain and problems for people on earth.
Jesus told them "Your authority to keep a grip on My people has been
broken." The blood I shed washed away every sin we have done
or will ever do. The perfect provision I have made now absolutely,
completely free him from your authority." It is only through sin that
Satan's demons have authority in our lives. When we sin, we are
rebelling against God and open ourselvs to the devil and his demons.
They can do whatever they want because the sin in our lives gives
them a handle 0n which to hold, but the blood of Jesus is so
powerful thar it cleanses our sins, there by getting rid of the handle.
All they can do is put thoughts of lies in our mind, like "you have
blown it," "there is no hope for you", "you have gone to far".
Peter says "Look To The Cross". Realize that Jesus told the very
worst of the demons that they no longer have power over you.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Maggie 3 ,
They only spiritual person who have power over me is God.
I will allow no other.
Of course my government has some power over me as does the law but that's consequence of living in this nation.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I think we have to distinguish between the New Covenant and the Old. The New Testament teaches us that Jesus went to hell and preached to all the people who had been there since before the Flood. He goes on to tell us many times in the New Testament that the dead are asleep. John tells us we will be resurrected, some to eternal glory and others to eternal damnation, implying they had all been asleep. I don't have a problem reconciling that there are people currently in Heaven - those who were in hell but were loosed because they believed on Jesus - and the rest, since the Old Covenant, are asleep, therefore not in Heaven, and who will be resurrected at Jesus' Second Coming.

From what I can tell and understand from the Bible. Everyone who believes on the Lord Jesus and dies is absent from the body and present with the Lord. Tha is spirtually alive and with him forever.

Those who died before Christ, examples would be David, Moses, Abraham.. ect. Are in fact in heaven with the Lord too. When Jesus died and rose he conquered hell, death and the grave. All those with faith are waiting in heaven with the Father for the Lord Jesus to take his rightful place on the throne of David on this earth for his 1000 year reign.

There is no one that is actually asleep. It is a term Paul used in the NT. Even the people who have rejected the Lord are fully aware of there doom and alive in Hades... waiting their judgement.

Those that are with the Lord now will receive their new bodies at the rapture of the church.

Then of course during the Great White Throne judgement everyone will stand before the Lord with a resurrected body. Those not found in the book of LIFE are cast with that body into the lake of fire.

From what I can tell and understand from the Bible. Everyone who believes on the Lord Jesus and dies is absent from the body and present with the Lord. Tha is spirtually alive and with him forever.


For me it's a non-issue. If they go instantly to be with the Lord, cool. If they're in a soul-sleep, as some churches like the SDA teach, then when they wake up and find they're with the Lord it SEEMS like it's instantaneous, so I really don't see what there is to argue about. Either way I'm with the Lord, and there's no discernible gap between when I shut my earthly eyes and when I open my heavenly ones.

Dave, Dave dave,

It is a HUGE issue if you think it is a non issue. It is what the bible clearly says happens. We are absent from the Body and present with the Lord. Not sound asleep. If we can't believe that what else can't we believe? If we can change That? What else can we change?. hmmmm? Ooooh here is one... lets change the everlasting promise that God made with the nation of Israel and replace Israel with the Church. Do you see how silly that would be? Tsk tsk. Tee hee.. yes, I'm picking a fight. :D

Dave, Dave dave,

Why do you present suggestive poses as your avatar?

Not complaining, just curious.

Why do you present suggestive poses as your avatar?

Not complaining, just curious.

Athos,

Are you serious? What exactly do YOU see Athos? Here is a thought... you have issues if you think there is something suggestive to my avatar. That was a very bold and rude comment. If my "poses" are suggestive to you, perhaps you need to get out more and stop looking at it. Geeesh talk about creepy, insulting and by the way I am complaining that you are curious. UGHHHHHH

If I weren't a Christian you wouldn't have even noticed my avatar. I can't tell you how offended I feel right now. Get real.

Athos,

Are you serious? What exactly do YOU see Athos? Here is a thought... you have issues if you think there is something suggestive to my avatar. That was a very bold and rude comment. If my "poses" are suggestive to you, perhaps you need to get out more and stop looking at it. geeesh talk about creepy, insulting and by the way I am complaining. UGHHHHHH

If I weren't a Christian you wouldn't have even noticed my avatar. I can't tell you how offended I feel right now. Get real.

The lady doth protest too much

Athos,

You got me... I'm really on askmehelpdesk to pose in suggestive avatars. Finally! After 4 years someone noticed. THANK you... I can move on now.

dwashbur does not find this helpful : What on earth does this have to do with the topic?

Athos doesn't know enough about the bible to discuss it. When you can't answer the OP's question... hate on someone who can.

Athos doesn't know enough about the bible to discuss it.
Um, you're very wrong about that.

This is to address "Junior Member:"

JM, the "spirit" is simply the breath. It is also termed "the soul" of the individual. In the Greek, the word for "spirit" and "soul" are the same; it is the pneuma, or breath of the individual, which does go back to the Creator, whence it came. We get the English words "pheumothorax" (air in the space between the lungs (outside) and the chest wall, and pneumonia (disease affecting the alveoli, or air sacs of the lungs). The Bible states that the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5). As far as people who "see" their dead loved ones and people who see ghosts, we know that there are angels of Satan who have appeared to people in the form of the deceased. Angels are quoted in the scriptures as being able to take on human form. We also know that when people go to fortune tellers, it is the enemy who tells them things that only that person would know, or of events that only that person or a deceased loved one shared. The enemy watches our lives, and is intent on lying about the very things that he always has. The first lie that he told to Adam and Eve was that they would not die. This lie is perpetuated every day by people who believe, despite the words of the Bible, including the words of Jesus, that they do not continue to live in any way, shape, or form. Additionally, it would be the most cruel thing in the world if Jesus were to raise those who had died and "gone to Heaven" and bring them back to a sinful Earth from the most perfect and sinless place ever! It also makes no sense why Jesus would have had to go back to Heaven if that was where he went when he died. Why would he go to Heaven, then come back to Earth just so he could be raised up and return to Heaven? It would also be so cruel for those who love us and have died to watch us mourn and grieve for them, with some people becoming so despondent that they commit suicide. But even without that, for them to go through the torture of watching those who loved them hurt and grieve, to become so excruciatingly sad, would be nothing short of cruel!

Dear Classy T,

The Bible doesn't say that we ARE absent from the body, it says that we are WILLING to be absent from the body and with the Lord. This is not a reference that even has anything to do with death, but rather, it has to do with living in the flesh versus living by the Spirit (the Holy Spirit). Being "with the Lord" here means that we are to live not in the sinful state, but to live lives in the Lord.

Here is a link that will describe this in more detail, so you can understand it fully: http://www.jba.gr/Articles/nkjv_jbafebmar98a.htm.

In Christ,
Brenda

Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. (John 14:1-3) there is no heaven yet. He is preparing it. He promises us that. In this scripture. If we died and went to say " heaven" why the reserrection?

Dear Classy T,

The Bible doesn't say that we ARE absent from the body, it says that we are WILLING to be absent from the body and with the Lord. This is not a reference that even has anything to do with death, but rather, it has to do with living in the flesh versus living by the Spirit (the Holy Spirit). Being "with the Lord" here means that we are to live not in the sinful state, but to live lives in the Lord.

Here is a link that will describe this in more detail, so you can understand it fully: "Absent with the body, present with the Lord"" (http://www.jba.gr/Articles/nkjv_jbafebmar98a.htm).

In Christ,
Brenda

Brenda,

I completely disagree with you but I'm not sure what you believe. I'm confused completely. The bible is clear that we are with the Lord Jesus when we die and we most certainly will get our bodies back and we will rule and reign with the Lord Jesus during his 1000 year reign. There is NO question as to whether the Lord will return to this earth. It is only a question of when.

Dear Classy T,



Here is a link that will describe this in more detail, so you can understand it fully: "Absent with the body, present with the Lord"" (http://www.jba.gr/Articles/nkjv_jbafebmar98a.htm).

In Christ,
Brenda

Funny how this guy conveniently leaves out his religious background or under what churches authority he is living and spreading his brand of theology? Does not the bible teach that we all must come under authority of someone .

Funny how this guy conveniently leaves out his religious background or under what churches authority he is living and spreading his brand of theology? Does not the bible teach that we all must come under authority of someone .

It's there -- Site owner information (http://www.jba.gr/aboutus.htm)

It's there -- Site owner information (http://www.jba.gr/aboutus.htm)


Nope sorry. It clearly states "non denominational" and gives no authoritative answer as to who or what church doctrine he follows. As far as I know he is a Mormon or a JW.

I'm guessing his authority is the Bible. Definitely not Mormon or JW.

I emailed him to find out.

I'm guessing his authority is the Bible. Definitely not Mormon or JW.

I emailed him to find out.

There are other groups that believe the "soul sleep" view, including Adventist and probably some others that I don't know about. We'd have to know his views specifically on Jesus to determine whether he's a Mormon, JW or something else.

In 1972 I died and I stood before the LORD. I seen a bright light and I ask the question where am I . I was told , you are standing before the LORD. I ask how do I know you are the LORD. A arm came out of the whiteness and there was a hole in His arm. Then the LORD ask me if I was ready to come home. Now with that said. I don't under stand why preachers say you sleep? I did not sleep. I went from earth to stand before the LORD in a trekking of an eye really a trekking of the eye.

I don't under stand why preachers say you sleep? I did not sleep. I went from earth to stand before the LORD in a trekking of an eye really a trekking of the eye.
The phrase "you sleep" refers to the body which "sleeps" in a grave until Judgment Day when body and soul are reunited.

What do you mean by "trekking"? This means "hiking." Do you mean"twinkling" of an eye?

The way I see it is that we are a speck of time within eternity and eternity isn't confined to time in any way shape or form

Hello sorrow, you missed the scripture that is for the church, read 1 thessalonians chapter 4 verses 13--18 the apostle paul explains to the church that those that are in christ have not died but sleep until his coming.

Hello to all:

Remember the scripture that states " those who are Christ's do not have to worry about the Second Death. So if that be the case when one dies they are dead, not asleep. The dead in Christ shall be raised from the dead.