And His Word Is LAW! Folks who support Obama, please stop beating your heads into the wall wondering why people who speak Spanish don't want to learn English. No real reason to wonder now! BARACK OBAMA, presidential candidate, wants for your children to learn SPANISH! Forget the teaching of English at least for the foreseeable future, folks. That's a thing of the past, get over it already. The CHANGE WE CAN TRULY BELIEVE IN is that Barack wants for your kids to LEARN SPANISH!! Why would he be pushing for that when so many want Spanish-speaking kids to learn English? Why does Obama take this position? Does he feel it will help his candidacy? Are you in agreement with him? What say you? But don't take my word for it. Here's the FILM for proof! Comprende amigos?

Video - Obama Says Your Kids Need to Learn Spanish | 186 k per second (http://186kpersecond.com/blog/2008/07/09/video-obama-says-your-kids-need-to-learn-spanish/)

He isn't the only one. That has been the way it has been for years.
I remember the arguments a couple years ago over people dying from the cold and they could not read English so they were misusing kerosene heaters and all.
Many said it was up to us to cater to their language.

Ok the US is almost the only school system of the major nations that does not require a 2nd language. And in today's job market, you almost have to know spanish, I did not get 4 great jobs because I did not know spanish.

So I believe a requirement in education for a second language would be great, now of course I am not sure that the federal government could even require it if they wanted to since most of this is controlled at state level.

O.K. so far it's 2 that appear to be very comfortable with Obama's LEARN SPANISH initiative. Any more?

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I agree with Father Chuck. What is wrong with Encouraging kids to learn a second language.

You know what language I'm about to begin classes to learn? Chinese. I can make good money in China doing what I do. I can make even more if I know how to speak Chinese.

Your so predictable and monotonous Sky that its actually entertaining. Keep digging!!

Didn't mean I was comfortable with it or not just stating that that is the way it is and just like everybody wants to put everything on Bush I see it pretty much the same.

We have three languages spoken fluently in our household and three more that we can comprehend on beginner to novice levels. Personally I do think English in the US should be the business and commerce language, and perhaps our national major news network broadcasts. After that I don't care what people speak.

I agree with Father Chuck. What is wrong with Encouraging kids to learn a second language.

Nothing! But it better be SPANISH!

You know what language i'm about to begin classes to learn? Chinese. I can make good money in China doing what i do. I can make even more if i know how to speak Chinese.

Oh well, to each his own I guess. But Obama won't be too happy since it isn't Spanish you're interested in! Humor him once in a while by taking up Spanish as well. It won't hurt you and maybe you'll even learn something.

Your so predictable and monotonous Sky that its actually entertaining. Keep digging!!!

Hey, thanks for the encouragement, Skell! It's great sentences like that that are so off-beat, in a sense, that actually keep me going! I am in the process of preparing much more for folks just like You! I just Luv to hear how you hate 'em, 'cause I know that in reality, I'm really on to something when you read them and react the way you and others do! And of course, if you didn't reply, I would have little opportunity to present the tag lines that are so important from now on, so THANKS AGAIN and don't stay a stranger, let's hear from you!

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I agree with Fr Chuck

In the future it will be to your advantage to know a second or more language.

If I had it my way I would have my 3 kids learn, Spanish, Chinese, and Farsi. ;)

Tu comprende?


Or as OHB likes to say "si se puede," lighten up once in awhile Sky ;)

Obama is without question the 'panderer-in-chief', and shows over and over why he is not qualified to be POTUS. He is truly an embarrassment. Most government schools can't effectively teach English, math, or history; much less Spanish. I suppose Obama appeals to the elites among the populace, but he nauseates me.

I think it is good to learn a second language. I'm going to let you in on a little secret Obama did not start this trend. It was a requirement when I was in high school ten years ago to take a second language just to graduate. I will also add that the more publicized language throughout my school was spanish.
I can understand and speak a great deal of spanish and that helped a lot when I lived in miami, but now I've moved onto learning french because I believe that educating yourself about another's culture is what makes great and intelligent people.
I have a question though why is sky so angry? Is it that he doesn't want children to be educated or is he mad that they are getting forced into being educated?

When I was in h.s (when we had dinosaurs for pets), two years of a second language was required for graduation. French, Latin, and German were the choices. I took three years of Latin. Kids scoffed -- "Latin is a dead language" -- but my vocabulary is probably better than theirs now. In college I took German. For my job, I wish I could speak Hindi, Mandarin, Farsi, and ASL--plus knowing Italian and French would add to my value as an employee. I'm learning Spanish from Mexican library volunteers. My knowing Hebrew and Greek would be great for Bible study.

Every child should learn at least two, and probably three, languages. He will never be sorry.

Now, if only native English speaking Americans would learn spelling, grammar, and punctuation...

He was speaking to a crowd that could barely speak English(and he was stammering and stuttering pretty bad himself) . He was AGAIN pointing a finger at the US while deflecting an important issue about English as the official language.

He was mocking Americans oversea invoking the image of the Ugly American.

Indeed Europeans are more likely to be fluent in more than one language . People from Alsace and many other regions of the continent are not clear what their true national origin is. Each nation on the continent is like a State in this country .So yeah ;I am very fluent in NewJersey and when I visit Florida I converse in Floridian.

Ask the Canadians how well the dual language thing is working out. Quebec is constantly threatening secession.

Meet the elites. They think you're stupid. They think all freedom loving Americans are stupid. They think patriotism is stupid. They think churchgoing is stupid. They think flag-flying is stupid. They despise families with more than two children. They are sure that where we live -- anywhere but near or in a few major cities -- is an insipid cultural wasteland. [Laura Ingraham 'Shut up and Sing.']

I have a question though why is sky so angry? is it that he doesn't want children to be educated or is he mad that they are getting forced into being educated?

Angry? It has often been said that those who detect anger in another is because the anger is inherently in their own system. As for education, haven't I been saying that I agree with children learning a second language? Yes. As for being "forced" to be educated, my own position on that is that whatever it takes to educate a child correctly by qualified teachers is worth the effort in the long run to allow them to become productive members of society. I do hope that Obama can fully fund that important program to allow EVERY child in America to learn Spanish without any hardships on having to pay for their education. And of course, this would not necessarily include illegal aliens from south of the border as they may already know Spanish unless the illegals are of another country, then they may need to learn it as well. As to who would fund them, I'm sure Obama will find a way for us to. But then it's all in the name of education, so who could complain about that. Just something that is inevitably coming in an Obama administration and it's hard to disagree with anything that educates those in this country. We can't get enough education, ever.

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Just something that is inevitably coming in an Obama administration and it's hard to disagree with anything that educates those in this country. We can't get enough education, ever.

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One thing I do wonder about, however, is whether Obama is wanting children in America to learn Spanish because he is genuinely interested in them learning it as a second language, or is he merely pandering for the Hispanic vote in the upcoming elections? That remains to be the question.

Sky the word "forced " was key to everything. It's like his "forced" volunteerism that he would impose on the students . It's like his telling us what cars we can drive and how much food we can eat and what temperature we can keep our house .

Hi Sky,
What would be your solution?

American Civics class 101: English is not the official language of the US.

Yes Bobby the question is... should it be recognized as such ? There is a case to be made for both sides . Obama's mockery does not move the debate forward at all.

Sky the word "forced " was key to everything. It's like his "forced" volunteerism that he would impose on the students . It's like his telling us what cars we can drive and how much food we can eat and what temperature we can keep our house .

Yes, Tom, I see your point. But I'm wondering about those who are offered an education but who simply don't want to go to school. Should they be "forced", within reason, to attend? I know some will say yes, others no. There are also laws addressing truancy and home-schooling to contend with. But when someone starts to FORCE all other things on the citizens of this country then the line has to clearly be drawn somewhere as that would be un-American at best. At worse, it would be akin to what a third world country would do with its citizens. Surely we don't want to fall into that category here in this country if that's where Obama wants to take us.

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But I'm wondering about those who are offered an education but who simply don't want to go to school.
Then they should be offered reasonable and productive alternatives after a certain age, say 16.

There is nothing wrong with learning a second language, if one chooses to do so.

I make deposits for a couple of the businesses I work for.

One of them, banks at U S Bank.

When I pull up to the drive through window, there are 4 great big signs hanging in the window for U S Bank customers to read.

EVERY word on ALL 4 signs, is in Spanish.

There is no English translation.

In the middle of America, hundreds of miles from any border, at a business with the title
U S BANK!!

I will not be learning any Spanish, anytime soon, and if you come to MY Country, and need help or directions, you better be able to speak English, or have your Garmin programed in Spanish, if you choose not to.

No doubt this will help the candidate with the Hispanic vote, and that is the only reason he made this proclamation.

But I'm wondering about those who are offered an education but who simply don't want to go to school.

I am my child's guardian until the age of 18. The children have no choice. But the problem is that my choices are limited . Our laws about education are the results of our elected officials voting on our behalf. That means that like it or not the laws represent the desires of the public.

I agree with Wondergirl that more than an education geared towards a college curriculum should be available. Heck I wish I had some basic plumbing and eletrical technical training . There is some nice careers in those jobs they claim Americans won't do.

Here is the clip of what Obama said Nowhere in there does he say he is FORCING anyone to learn Spanish YouTube - Barack Obama Says Your Kids Should Speak Spanish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLxhBaTZ5qk&feature=related)

Lucky for me growing up I lived across the street from a Spanish speaking family so I learned Spanish at an early age. Then my next door neighbors spoke Italian and I learned that also.

That helped me a lot in High School because the public high school I went to required I take two years of Spanish. That was 15 years ago when I started high school and I don't think Obama had anything to do with my HS requiring that I learn Spanish. Nice try SkyGem

Spit,
You are indeed correct.
a) No one is being forced to learn spanish
b) No one will have to drop the learning of English as Sky mentions

Just more FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_uncertainty_and_doubt) being disseminated by the ill-informed and persons with evil in their hearts.

Just now on the Glenn Beck show someone called in and said they took their sister to a back to work program through welfare and they told her she needs to learn Spanish if she wants to get anywhere working in Washington D.C.

Just now on the Glenn Beck show someone called in and said they took their sister to a back to work program through welfare and they told her she needs to learn Spanish if she wants to get anywhere working in Washington D.C.Was it a suggestion or a passing requirement?

Just now on the Glenn Beck show someone called in and said they took their sister to a back to work program through welfare and they told her she needs to learn Spanish if she wants to get anywhere working in Washington D.C.

In maybe 25 years, it will be Mandarin Chinese that we need to learn.

Ok the US is almost the only school system of the major nations that does not require a 2nd language. And in todays job market, you almost have to know spanish, I did not get 4 great jobs because I did not know spanish.

So I beleive a requirement in education for a second language would be great, now of course I am not sure that the federal government could even require it if they wanted to since most of this is controled at state level.
On last check, the US didn't have a school system; if fact, the individual states don't have school systems although they do a lot of mandating and heavy regulation. My guess is you can date the demise of education in the U.S. with the advent of mandates and regulation from the states and the U.S. gov't, all in the name of 'improving' education.

I have said for years that by the time they put all the silly warnings (like do not touch coils when plugged in the elements get hot and will burn) on products along with all the languages there will be more paper and instructions than the product itself.

Here's my two cents for anyone who who cares... if you don't then stop reading.
Is it good to learn a second language? Absolutely it opens you mind to cultures and experiences other than your own. Now, I don't think Spanish should be the first choice for a second language, it should be Chinese, Japanese, German, or French. This well get you much further in life as you climb the corporate ladder. Spanish is great if you aspire only for the ordinary.

My comments on response # 13 are still my main critique of his comments.


He was AGAIN pointing a finger at the US while deflecting an important issue about English as the official language.

He was mocking Americans oversea invoking the image of the Ugly American.

Gregisteredtrademark is 100% dead on (love the name it's awesome). I actually deal with a lot of spanish speaking people with my job. They speak English but when they have a complex question and I have a complex answer it is easier to tell them in Spanish. Spanish was not required for my tech job but it really makes my work life easier. I am actually about to get Rosetta stone to learn Chinese and German just so I know them.

Since some of our Political Leadership wish to appease the invaders from our southern border, knowing Spanish will come in handy for those who have no opposition to this invasion.

I am against the invasion, and I expect anyone entering this Country, legally or illegally, to know how to speak OUR language, not to expect me to learn theirs, so it is easier for them to continue with the invasion.

If they really want to live in America, the least they can do is learn to speak English.

While it is nice to learn other languages it should ultimately be up to the foreigner to do whatever it takes to adjust to surviving here. Even if we can speak Spanish what good is it doing them when we are not there and they have to figure out something that is in English and they have no body to translate for them.

Since some of our Political Leadership wish to appease the invaders from our southern border, knowing Spanish will come in handy for those who have no opposition to this invasion.

I am against the invasion, and I expect anyone entering this Country, legally or illegally, to know how to speak OUR language, not to expect me to learn theirs, so it is easier for them to continue with the invasion.

If they really want to live in America, the least they can do is learn to speak English.

You know, any moment now I expect Obama to show up at another rally aiming for the Hispanic vote dressed in a sombrero, serape, and guaraches. But I just have to wonder how many of you would be supporting this idea of learning Spanish had Obama actually come out AGAINST it, because of the costs involved with teachers, classrooms, etc. and telling you so? For those who want their children to be bilingual, would you then be willing to put up your own money in order for them to learn a second language or would you feel it is the government's job to provide for this, I'm curious to know?

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I want to get T shirts made American doing jobs Americans won't do

For those who want their children to be bilingual, would you then be willing to put up your own money in order for them to learn a second language or would you feel it is the government's job to provide for this, I'm curious to know?Here in Canada most children are indeed bilingual (English/French). If we can figure it out surely the greatest country in the world can too.

English and French, the two official languages of Canada, are the principal languages that the great majority of Canadians use to communicate. In 2001, 13% of Canada's population was able to conduct a conversation in French only, 68% in English only, and 18% in both of these languages. Around 2% of people enumerated reported not knowing either of these two languages.

Languages in Canada 2001 Census - The knowledge of Official Languages (http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/lo-ol/pubs/census2001/6_e.cfm)

You know, any moment now I expect Obama to show up at another rally aiming for the Hispanic vote dressed in a sombrero, serape, and guaraches. But I just have to wonder how many of you would be supporting this idea of learning Spanish had Obama actually come out AGAINST it, because of the costs involved with teachers, classrooms, etc., and telling you so? For those who want their children to be bilingual, would you then be willing to put up your own money in order for them to learn a second language or would you feel it is the government's job to provide for this, I'm curious to know?



As I already stated I learned Spanish when I was 10 years old. Never heard the name Barack Obama when I was 10 years old. I learned Spanish because I wanted to, I learned Italian because I wanted to, I am going to learn Chinese and German because I want to. I like to better myself maybe you would like to stay with the title of an Ugly American but I don't. And sorry to tell you that IS how the world looks at us.

Progunr I agree people who want to live in a country should know the official language but since the US has no official language which language should they learn? And really since this land was stolen from Native Americans shouldn't we all be speaking the language of the native Americans who were actually here first?

10060

Progunr I agree people who want to live in a country should know the official language but since the US has no official language which language should they learn? And really since this land was stolen from Native Americans shouldn't we all be speaking the language of the native Americans who were actually here first?10060

It doesn't take some politician to declare that English is the official language of America.

If we want to run the clock back over 2 hundred years, sure, lets all learn Native American.

What should we choose, Sioux, Cherokee, Choctaw or what?

There was no "Nation" back then, so each tribe was free to speak their own language.

When the white terrorists arrived, they learned to speak English, and most Native Americans speak English now.

To pretend that just because someone has not "declared" an official language for America, that there is none, is a bit ridiculous.

Progunr I agree people who want to live in a country should know the official language but since the US has no official language which language should they learn?

That of course was what Obama addressed in his flippant and arrogant way.He regrets that we are not European but we are who we are. I don't particularly care how we are perceived and it is my experience that the perception of the Ugly American is mostly hyped up by the elites and inaccurate.

The link I posted to above shows Canada has two languages BOTH considered OFFICIAL languages of the state.

You know I think that some American's are out of control. Our children are at the bottom of the totem pole in regards to the education level compared to other countries. This shouldn't even be a debate. I think that this whole thing started as another way to scrutinize Obama. The man just can't win for losing. Why not make it mandatory that all children learn spanish? I think that it should be a requirement on both ends of the spectrum. If spanish people want to come to America, make them learn english. Furthermore english speaking children should learn to speak spanish. Look at how rapidly the spanish community is growing in America. Tell me how the requirement of a child learning to speak spanish is a disadvantage again? No, no we don't want our children getting better jobs in and out of our country. (sarcasm, for all of you think may take my last statement literally) Peruse the want ads, how many of them say BILINGUAL IS A MUST? I don't care if Obama passes a law that says that all children must attend school 12hours a days with no summer breaks and one day off a week. Guess what? I am all for it. No one should ever make a stink about any form of education forced or not. I want my child to have a competitive advantage. I want my child to be a productive member of society. If it means me paying more taxes out of my pocket to do so then so be it, because in the long run I won't be paying to build new prisons, I won't have to pay that much to aide in the war on drugs and crime. To many people look at the short run and it never occurs to them to take the long run into consideration.

You know I think that some American's are out of control. Our children are at the bottom of the totem pole in regards to the education level compared to other countries. This shouldn't even be a debate...I don't care if Obama passes a law that says that all children must attend school 12hours a days with no summer breaks and one day off a week. Guess what? I am all for it. No one should ever make a stink about any form of education forced or not. I want my child to have a competitive advantage. I want my child to be a productive member of society. If it means me paying more taxes out of my pocket to do so then so be it, becuase in the long run I won't be paying to build new prisons, i won't have to pay that much to aide in the war on drugs and crime. To many people look at the short run and it never occurs to them to take the long run into consideration.
Nothing personal intended, smithy, but you sound like a good fascist!

She is 16

that of course was what Obama addressed in his flippant and arrogant way.Evidence that he was flippant and arrogant?


He regrets that we are not EuropeanWhen did he say that?


I don't particularily care how we are perceived and it is my experience that the perception of the Ugly American is mostly hyped up by the elites and inaccurate. Sorry but you're wrong there. I've had the opportunity to travel Europe and have seen it first hand.

It is nice knowing a little Spanish I tell the guys down the street Usted está loco en la cabeza
Then they start speaking Espanol to me and I reply No hablo en Espanol

Nothing personal intended, smithy, but you sound like a good fascist!

I don't agree with that. I am not a fascist. I am not looking for a quick fix. Like I said I am looking at the long term picture. When I think of fascism I think of Hitler and how would what I said compare to that of Hitler's ideology?

No one is pretending anything we have no official language period. Just because a majority of the people speak English doesn't make it official. If someone is too lazy or close minded to learn a new language they are going to get left behind in the future. I think that scares a lot of people. It is much easier to sit there and complain that "I'm not going to learn a new language they should learn what i already know" then it is to actually adapt and learn a new language. As far as what native American language we would speak we should have learned them all since the tribes did stretch from east to west and north to south.

Tom actually I have met a quite a few people from Europe and when they find out I know Spanish and Italian they all say they same thing. So you aren't one of those typical stupid Americans. And to be honest that makes me smile to know I am not looked at as a fat McDonald's eating English only speaking ignorant American.

I don't agree with that. I am not a fascist. I am not looking for a quick fix. like i said i am looking at the long term picture. When I think of fascism I think of Hitler and how would what I said compare to that of Hitler's ideology?
Do you agree that kids should go to school for twelve hours a day, ten or eleven months a year, at whatever the cost?

Do you agree that kids should go to school for twelve hours a day, ten or eleven months a year, at whatever the cost?

I believe that I will do anything so that my child gets an education. I will do anything so that my child is a productive member of society. Come on isn't that the reason people have children? People want their children to have better than they had growing up. I grew up in an upper middle class household. I have been educated in computer science, finance, spanish, and french. I like fine wine, classical music, art, and traveling. You only acquire that knowledge through education. So in order for my child to have a better life than I had I have a lot of work to do. So if that means school 12 hrs a day and no summer school then so be it. And I think that maybe the problem with some parents is that they don't have the same mentality.

I believe if you become an American citizen you need to know English.
Also, to be fair, if you go to their country to live you need to know their language.

yes Bobby

Unfortunaly some of the answers early on glossed over that fact.


the question is ...should it be recognized as such ? There is a case to be made for both sides . Obama's mockery does not move the debate forward at all.


Nope. Here's why: if English was not the official language fifty years ago, it sure as hell can't be today were Spanish is more prevalent then ever. Nor would I desire to have Spanish as the official language fifty years from now. However I do think English in the US should be used in business and commerce, and perhaps mandated broadcasts for some major news networks at certain time slots. After that I don't care what people speak. Fortunately for my household we speak multi-languages, but for those that do not, the parents should encourage their children to learn additional languages at school so they are not at a disadvantage later. And visa-versa, others have to catch up and maintain English. Especially children that did not speak it in their early years. I don't want them at a disadvantage either. Obama's acknowledges America for it's diversity.

The immigrant issue is a little different. In Israel there are ulpans. Basically a school that saturates you in Hebrew so you can fit into society. Actually if I recall correctly it's mandatory. In the US we have English as a second language schools for adult immigrants, but it's not under immigration requirements. I think there should be some basic English course mandated for immigration here in the States and structured to the age of the immigrant with exception to seniors (I would exempt all seniors). Also those already proficient enough in English could take an exam and not have to take the basic course.

I think that it should be a requirement on both ends of the spectrum. If spanish people want to come to America, make them learn english.
I have worked for almost 25 years at a suburban Chicago library. In every suburb, there are Mexican communities where only Spanish is spoken, but when these residents venture out into the world of Target and Walmart and libraryland, they speak English to us gringos--granted, it's broken English but they do their darndest to communicate (with smiles) and it definitely is understandable. I would not do as well in Mexico.

I have worked for almost 25 years at a suburban Chicago library. In every suburb, there are Mexican communities where only Spanish is spoken, but when these residents venture out into the world of Target and Walmart and libraryland, they speak English to us gringos--granted, it's broken English but they do their darndest to communicate (with smiles) and it definitely is understandable. I would not do as well in Mexico.
I'm certain you would adjust very well if you had to, after 25 years.

I'm certain you would adjust very well if you had to, after 25 years.
The 25 years has nothing to do with it. When I started working there, Czech was the big language in the area. Then it was Hindi. Now it is Spanish. What's a librarian to do??

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
that of course was what Obama addressed in his flippant and arrogant way.

Evidence that he was flippant and arrogant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
He regrets that we are not European

When did he say that?



He certainly did . He 1st berated us for not learning Spanish and then mocked (with a deliberate yayhoo mispronounciation for emphasis) that all we know how to say when oversees is merci bouquet.

He certainly did . He 1st berated us for not learning Spanish and then mocked (with a deliberate yayhoo mispronounciation for emphasis) that all we know how to say when oversees is merci bouquet. He did only in your mind and intrepretation. BTW most americans travelling to France can't speak a word of French and those that do have a very accented version of it. I know, I'm french-canadian.

Not true, his words were just another example of how arrogant, and elitist he is.

He is "above" normal Americans, he thinks he is inherently "better" than the rest of us, and it shows every time he speaks.

All he has done with this "talking point" is to shore up some more of the Hispanic vote, and to demonstrate just how totally arrogant he really is.

Well as your compadre Mark Stein said ; When BO is President the only words of French Obama will need is merci bouquet as he takes his marching orders from the EU.

Dude,
McCain's campaign is funded by his rich wife - how much more 'elitist' can one get? McCain doesn't know how to use a computer and lies about his vet awards. Who's out-of-touch and thinks they can pull the wool over your eyes? McCain that's who.

well as your compadre Mark Stein said ; When BO is President the only words of French Obama will need is merci bouquet as he takes his marching orders from the EU.When did Obama mention taking orders from the EU?

When did Obama mention taking orders from the EU?actually they are getting a little nervous about him also . The other day when talking about those Iranian missile tests he said he would begin to conduct "meaningful negotiations " with the Mahdi-hatter... by implication levelling the charge that the negotiations conducted by the Europeans have not been meaningful or serious.

So instead of answering the question you deflect and try another tact. Dude, your lies and misrepresentations are pathetic. Bye now, enjoy your life.

Actually all I did was misquote

Here is the exact quote

“…what we should be doing is gathering our allies together in a serious effort to apply sanctions to Iran and encourage them to change their behavior.”
Obama ignores that European leaders are very seriously trying “to apply sanctions to Iran and encourage them to change their behavior.” In just one sentence, the man who says he wants to improve America's relationship with Europe insults Europe and denigrates Europe's attempts .
Pathetic !
You want a direct quote ?

European officials are increasingly concerned that Sen. Barack Obama's campaign pledge to begin direct talks with Iran on its nuclear program without preconditions could potentially rupture U.S. relations with key European allies early in a potential Obama administration.
Europe Fears Obama Might Undercut Progress With Iran - washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/21/AR2008062101658.html)

As for the marching orders; the impression he gives is that he is more Europhile than American in his thinking . If Clinton was the first black President then Obama is the 1st black John Kerry.

So ;Does Obama speak Spanish?? No he does not .

Does he speak any other foreign language ? Nope ,he claimed he spole fluent Indonesian as a child, but has since backed away from that, after his teachers at both the Catholic School and the Muslim Indonesian public school Obama attended said Obama did not speak Indonesian at all.

Since he is so embarrassed when Americans go overseas and can't speak the native language I think he should be put to the test in his upcoming European tour. All interviews in Germany should be conducted in German... all in France ;in French (he's half way there... we know he can say merci bouquet ).

I think Obama is just jumping on the bandwagon that's on it's way to pick up all the illegals for amnesty. After all, once here, they will be a powerful voting bloc for the candidate that lifts them up.

Although I agree that a second and even third language in the home can be a great experience... I don't think our politicians should tell us which language to choose.

In my high school days, about a hundred years ago, I learned French. However when I had my condo in Florida, it was no help to me in deciphering rules and directions that were already printed in Spanish.

In fact, Disneyworld has always had duplicate signs in Spanish so it's not an entirely new idea.

My former husband was Chaldean and I learned to understand much of that language but do not speak or read it. Perhaps we should all be learning Arabic as another fast growing language. When I called my state Representative in Lansing, the phone message was first answered in Spanish and second in Arabic, before English finally came through. I was glad it finally said something I could understand...

I think this is interesting in regards to 'official language'.

Constitutional Topic: Official Language - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net (http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_lang.html)

There has been at least one interesting contrast to the pro-English efforts. In 1923, Illinois officially declared that English would no longer be the official language of Illinois - but American would be. Many of Illinois' statutes refer to "the American language," (example: 225 ILCS 705/27.01) though the official language of the state is now English (5 ILCS 460/20).

According to U.S. English, the following states have existing official language laws on their books: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming. A small handful date back more than a few decades, such as Louisiana (1811) and Nebraska (1920), but most official language statutes were passed since the 1970's.

If one reads the entire quote, and doesn't chop out a phrase to remove it from its context, this is what Obama really said:

"I don't understand when people are going around saying, 'We need to have English only.' They want to pass a law 'We want English only.' Now I agree that immigrants should learn English. I agree with that. But understand this. Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English. They'll learn English. You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish. You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual. We should have every child speaking more than one language. It's embarrassing when Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German. And then we go over to Europe and all we can say is merci beaucoup, right?"

If it were 25 years in the future, Obama would have used Mandarin Chinese as his first example. After all, when anyone in 2008 uses the term "bilingual," what is the first language thought of? Huh? Huh? I'm guessing you said "Spanish." Today, when we think "immigrants," we think "Mexicans."

Did you know that "conflate" is a word? "to fuse into one entity; merge: to conflate dissenting voices into one protest." (from conflate - Definitions from Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conflate)
I had never thought of "...English only..." until reading Wondergirl's post. Here's an interesting post: "Obama seems to be conflating demands for English-only curriculum to hasten the assimilation of English as a Second Language students with opposition to foreign language courses." see: The Campaign Spot on National Review Online (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Mzk4M2Y3MDA1ZDJkOWY3YjdiNjI0MWRkMDI3Nzc5Y2E=)

purplewings (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../members/purplewings.html) agrees: Leave it to a Canadian to decide what America should be doing. Where did you get the idea that I was deciding anything for anyone?


All my Canadian friends have wanted to live in America al their lives. Maybe the 'Ugly American' idea turned them on. We have different friends I guess. I haven't met any canadians tjhat would prefer to live in the U.S. and I live here and meet canadians all day every day, hell I work in tourism! What's stopping your canadians friends from going to the US?

I guess it's not as easy for a Canadian to get citizenship as it is for others

progunr agrees: WOW! That is the exact quote. And your point is?

My point, dear progunr, is exactly what I stated in that post. "Today, when we think 'immigrants,' we think 'Mexicans.' Obama was referring to Mexican immigrants when he used the noun 'immigrants.' Thus his comment, "Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English. They'll learn English. You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish." He was speaking specifically about Mexican immigrants, not immigrants from anywhere. And his point was, if we want to communicate with a Mexican immigrant, we learn Spanish. The same goes for immigrants from other countries--learn at least enough of their language to communicate with them. We're not doing THEM a favor--we're doing US a favor.

And I am learning Spanish--my poor version of it. Mexican immigrants smile and encourage me and help me along. On the other hand, the preponderance of Indian immigrants have learned British English since early grade school, so we don't have much of a problem understanding each other. Of course, I had to know some German to be able to understand my grandparents' speech.

Now, progunr, what haven't I made clear?

I had never thought of "...English only..." until reading Wondergirl's post. Here's an interesting post: "Obama seems to be conflating demands for English-only curriculum to hasten the assimilation of English as a Second Language students with opposition to foreign language courses."

As a former teacher, I totally agree with Obama and anyone else who believes that an immigrant student should be immersed in English, without the bilingual silliness. After the Tet Offensive, I was a math tutor to three Vietnamese immigrant boys. They spoke only the English they had picked up off the Vietnamese streets (probably from U.S. soldiers) during the war. No one in their U.S. school knew Vietnamese. I did not know Vietnamese. Thank goodness math is a universal language, but I was amazed at how quickly they picked up English. Of course, they learned a lot of slang and swear words from schoolmates and neighborhood kids, but learn English they did.

Obama said: "...You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish. You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual...."
Obama is an elitist for elitists; as we've learned, he doesn't speak Spanish and not much else. The question is whether he can color himself well-enough (pander) to pull-off an election victory. He is very liberal, and liberals are not elected by telling the truth about themselves.

Obama said: "...You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish. You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual...."
Obama is an elitist for elitists; as we've learned, he doesn't speak Spanish and not much else. The question is whether he can color himself well-enough (pander) to pull-off an election victory. He is very liberal, and liberals are not elected by telling the truth about themselves.

Back up the bus! He said, "you need to make sure YOUR CHILD can speak Spanish." You're saying Obama will not allow his daughters to learn Spanish? That would definitely be elitist.

What languages other than English do you speak, George?

My point, dear progunr, is exactly what I stated in that post. "Today, when we think 'immigrants,' we think 'Mexicans.' Obama was referring to Mexican immigrants when he used the noun 'immigrants.' Thus his comment, "Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English. They'll learn English. You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish." He was speaking specifically about Mexican immigrants, not immigrants from anywhere. And his point was, if we want to communicate with a Mexican immigrant, we learn Spanish. The same goes for immigrants from other countries--learn at least enough of their language to communicate with them. We're not doing THEM a favor--we doing US a favor.

And I am learning Spanish--my poor version of it. Mexican immigrants smile and encourage me and help me along. On the other hand, the preponderance of Indian immigrants have learned British English since early grade school, so we don't have much of a problem understanding each other. Of course, I had to know some German to be able to understand my grandparents' speech.

Now, progunr, what haven't I made clear?

OK, you made you point clear.

You believe that people coming to America, should expect us to learn their language, so it will be easier for them here?

Sorry, I was born here, they were not, if anyone needs to learn a different language, it is the people who WERE NOT BORN HERE!

And you even state that the learning of Spanish is for MY benefit, not theirs?

That is total BS.

I'm glad you are making friends and impressing the Mexican immigrants with your learning of their language, I'm most certain that the ones who come in contact with you will be very appreciative.

What ever we do, we sure don't want to do anything to make it less attractive for them to invade our southern border. Especially something so despicable as expecting them to speak the language of OUR country.

Geeeezzzzz, what the heck was I thinking?!

You believe that people coming to America, should expect us to learn their language, so it will be easier for them here?
It's called getting along with other human beings. I was born in the U.S. and work in a public library where, every day, I deal with people who speak languages from many countries. They are all doing their best to learn English. Unfortunately, the U.S. has overstretched literacy teachers and resources. I do what I can to help people, no matter their country of origin, to feel welcome.

Have you signed up yet, progunr, to be a literacy teacher? We need every one we can get, since all those immigrants you are nattering about need people to teach them English.

My wife is from Thailand.

She went to school herself, and learned our language.

She didn't ask anyone to teach her for free, she paid for the education she wanted, and needed.

Even she can't believe or understand people with your's, and the Messiah's views on this issue and neither can I.

To each their own, that's my motto, we don't have to agree to be able to get along and I am certain that you are as firm in your belief, as I am in mine.

Enjoy your weekend.

My wife is from Thailand.

She went to school herself, and learned our language.

She didn't ask anyone to teach her for free, she paid for the education she wanted, and needed.

Even she can't believe or understand people with your's, and the Messiah's views on this issue and neither can I.

To each their own, that's my motto, we don't have to agree to be able to get along and I am certain that you are as firm in your belief, as I am in mine.

Enjoy your weekend.
So you're just going to duck out now? How did your wife learn English? Most of the immigrants I know and deal with at work are learning English on the fly and from very patient native-English-speaking neighbors and coworkers and individuals they encounter in the community. They are immersed in English and have no choice but to learn it if they intend to survive in this country.

So you're just going to duck out now? How did your wife learn English? Most of the immigrants I know and deal with at work are learning English on the fly and from very patient native-English-speaking neighbors and coworkers and individuals they encounter in the community. They are immersed in English and have no choice but to learn it if they intend to survive in this country.
She went to the local middle school, signed up for English as a second language, paid the fee, and went to class 2 nights a week.

If it is their desire to live here, it is their obligation to learn the language.

What do you think Mexico would say, if someone told them, that they need to learn English, so that it will be much easier for Americans when we visit or move to their country?

The illegal invasion from our southern border is costing our Nation a great deal, and the answer to this enormous problem, is to require us to speak their language.

All I can do is scratch my head, and wonder, why the hell would we do that!

She went to the local middle school, signed up for English as a second language, paid the fee, and went to class 2 nights a week.

If it is their desire to live here, it is their obligation to learn the language.

What do you think Mexico would say, if someone told them, that they need to learn English, so that it will be much easier for Americans when we visit or move to their country?

The illegal invasion from our southern border is costing our Nation a great deal, and the answer to this enormous problem, is to require us to speak their language.

All I can do is scratch my head, and wonder, why the hell would we do that!!
They need to learn English and they ARE learning English. No one is refusing. As I told someone else here, I'm against bilingual education. Immersing oneself into whatever language is the best way to learn it. If I move to China, I will learn Mandarin Chinese. It won't happen overnight, but I will learn it. I see nothing wrong with Americans learning Spanish or any other foreign language to better communicate with immigrants. I see nothing wrong with posting additional signs and giving helps in another language. Don't worry, progunr. All those immigrants will learn English.

We agree!

There is nothing wrong with someone learning a second, or third language.

As long as it is their choice to do so, and not because it has been mandated by some elitist, who was able to smooth talk his way into the White House.

That is where this all started, for some reason it turned into a "just learning another language" debate and moved away from the original topic.

As long as it is their choice to do so, and not because it has been mandated by some elitist, who was able to smooth talk his way into the White House.
There is no elitist mandating (or who will mandate). You have taken a few words out of Obama's speech and whipped up a war of words. You've taken a button and knitted a sweater around it. All will be well, progunr, all will be well.

You sound like a sweet person.

Too bad you've gotten into the Obama Koolaid.

Yeah, him and his socialistic ideals are totally harmless.

Have another drink.

You sound like a sweet person.

Too bad you've gotten into the Obama Koolaid.

Yeah, him and his socialistic ideals are totally harmless.

Have another drink.

Even excon likes me, so I must be okay.

And I'm a Republican at heart, but one who votes with her head. Obama might just surprise you and end up making you proud, progunr. I will pray that will happen.

elitist
And who's elitist? Certainly not the Current Occupant and McSame...

Incredible! Obama wants children to be bilingual and learn Spanish, yet he has admitted not being bilingual himself! It's a clear-cut case of do as I say not as I do. YOU Do it, but not I! Why should I?

Political Radar: Como Se Dice? Obama Clarifies Comments Over Foreign Languages (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/07/como-se-dice-ob.html)

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Interested in the November presidential election? Have you heard? They're trying to take Hillary's delegates away!
Just Say No Deal!

Just Say No Deal (http://justsaynodeal.com/)

Power of Puma: Howard Dean Schemes To Shut Down Democratic Convention (http://powerofpuma.blogspot.com/2008/06/howard-dean-schemes-to-shut-down.html)

And for ALL Obamanots:

Nobama Network - Dedicated to Unity Democrats, Republicans, Independents Election 2008 (http://www.nobamanetwork.com/)

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Even excon likes me, so I must be okay.

And I'm a Republican at heart, but one who votes with her head. Obama might just surprise you and end up making you proud, progunr. I will pray that will happen.
All right, Wondergirl, that's enough. What is it about the Republican Party that you like most and dislike most? What is it about the Democrat Party you like most, and dislike most? If you are an elitist Republican, I can see why Obama's comments about children learning a second language wouldn't matter: "You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish. You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual. We should have every child speaking more than one language. It's embarrassing when Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German." That's a crock. Our kids better be learning English, history, math, and science.

Our kids better be learning English, history, math, and science.
I was a humble schoolteacher and believe languages should be first taught in the early grades when it is much easier for children to learn them (and not waiting until high school). Phonics and handwriting and geography should return to the curriculum, along with the regular classes in science, math, English, and history, as you mentioned. Art and music would be excellent additions. All of those were taught in my grade school and high school curricula. Has the school day gotten shorter since the 1950s, that those are missing from today's education?

Incredible! Obama wants children to be bilingual and learn Spanish, yet he has admitted not being bilingual himself! It's a clear-cut case of do as I say not as I do. YOU Do it, but not I! Why should I?!

You say Obama wants CHILDREN to be bilingual. Nothing wrong with that! So he's not doing it?? --he's forbidding his daughters to be bilingual and learn another language like Spanish? Please post proof of that.

Nothing wrong with be bi-lingual, if it is by choice. No one should be forced to learn another language. It may help if the culture you are liiving in speaks a certain language, but force is never the answer. And I don't personally agree with anything Obama says.

Nothing wrong with be bi-lingual, if it is by choice. No one should be forced to learn another language.
As far as know, taking a language in high school has always been a choice. If kindergarteners are taught German for fifteen minutes a day, is that considered forced?

Nothing wrong with be bi-lingual, if it is by choice. No one should be forced to learn another language. It may help if the culture you are liiving in speaks a certain language, but force is never the answer. And I don't personally agree with anything Obama says.
Um, I think there are children in school against their will. They don't want to get up in the morning or do homework or sit still in class. Is that forced education? Should we let them run loose on the streets instead?

My children in high school are required to take 3 years of a foreign language. They also were taught Spanish in the middle school. They may be teaching it in the elementary school now.

Um, I think there are children in school against their will. They don't want to get up in the morning or do homework or sit still in class. Is that forced education? Should we let them run loose on the streets instead?
Now, there's an idea. At the beginning of class each morning, remove those that are not prepared or don't want to be there and let them dig-up dandelions, cut grass, and rake the school yard in fair weather; and make the floors and walls spotless in bad weather.

Has the school day gotten shorter since the 1950s, that those are missing from today's education?
What is missing in today's education from the 1950s is, in a word, discipline. This HBO movie is definitely worth the time to watch: HBO Documentaries: Documentary Films Series: Hard Times: Synopsis (http://www.hbo.com/docs/docuseries/hardtimes/index.html)
Of course, I love it when the libs try to place blame for poor performance of schools on George Bush and "No Child Left Behind".

What is missing in todays education for the 1950s is, in a word, discipline.Discipline begins with the parents and US parents these days don't give a crap about their kids, they are too busy trying to appear wealthy. In my opinion it is not up to the teachers to raise my child.

Needkarma. Maybe some U.S. parents don't give a crap about their children but I do and I take offense to a blanket statement like that.

Discipline begins with the parents and US parents these days don't give a crap about their kids, they are too busy trying to appear wealthy. In my opinion it is not up to the teachers to raise my child.
I couldn't disagree more. US parents have given a blank check to education, which gets poorer and poorer. The education establishment is run by elitists, like the Obama crowd (and maybe McCain as well, who knows?); elitism has replaced pragmatism. I've been in a 6th grade classroom recently; the students have no fear of their teachers because corporal punishment has been banned in that county. When I was in 6th grade, a teacher would take a misbehaving student into the hallway and wear them out for all to hear. The effect was dramatic; we need that back.

Needkarma. Maybe some U.S. parents don't give a crap about their children but I do and I take offense to a blanket statement like that.Sorry mate, I shouldn't have made a blanket statement, you are correct. There are some good kids out there with great parents.

You say Obama wants CHILDREN to be bilingual. Nothing wrong with that! So he's not doing it???--he's forbidding his daughters to be bilingual and learn another language like Spanish? Please post proof of that.

That is the question many are asking about his daughters. And you're putting words in my mouth. Remember, I did not say he is "forbidding" his daughters to be bilingual. But has he pushed them far enough to be bilingual is the question? He DOES, however, want for American children, in general, to be bilingual.

In further answer to your question about the daughters, you might want to check these out.

Obama: Kids Should Learn Spanish (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2043404/posts) (Look at post 25 that asks the same question!)

760 KFMB AM - San Diego, CA - Talk Radio (http://www.760kfmb.com/rick_blog/?p=328) (The comments posted afterwards are really something!)

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Needkarma, thank you we are not all alike and I do realize some people let their kids go and in the end they end up paying the price as well as the poor children.

George. I don't need a teacher, principal or anyone to hit my children in fact if someone in school were to hit my child I would press charges on them.

That being said they have my number and can reach me anytime and know that if my child gets out of hand I am minutes/phone call away and will deal with my children and will back them up on their non corporal punishments.
I have 3 children in school one just graduated with a full ride scholarship and has never been hit by anyone and he wasn't always the most dedicated student either. The other 2 are works in progress and will never be hit by any adult and hopefully not by another child. I don't think that fear teaches anything... there has got to be other ways... better ways.

Needkarma, thank you we are not all alike and I do realize some people let their kids go and in the end they end up paying the price as well as the poor children.

George. I don't need a teacher, principal or anyone to hit my children in fact if someone in school were to hit my child I would press charges on them.
...
I don't think that fear teaches anything...there has got to be other ways ...better ways.
Of course, who would disagree with you? Schools are not for teaching hitting. But I invite you to view "HARD TIMES AT DOUGLASS HIGH: A NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND REPORT CARD", sorry about the caps, but that's the way it copied; it has been on several times lately, HBO. Here, you will see an urban high school, certainly not out of money, but out of control. I've seen almost the same thing in predominantly white, rural school of just 6th graders, out of control. The kids have no respect for or fear of their teachers.

We are teaching our son Spanish and French. But I know I have gotten ( may have mentioned this already) but I have lost out on two good jobs because I don't speak Spanish well enough.

Yet another incongruency from Obama... so many little incongruencies

One thing is 4 people to make personal choices of what language to learn based on their likes or convenience for the are they live in. Excellent.
But for a potential US president to tell YOU that you "Should" learn a language (or even more controlling -- instill in your kids) that is a bit invasive and weird.

One thing is 4 ppl to make personal choices of what language to learn based on their likes or convenience for the are they live in. Excellent.
But for a potential US president to tell YOU that you "Should" learn a language (or even more controlling -- instill in your kids) that is a bit invasive and wierd.
Especially when he cannot himself, as he is an elitist: "Do as I say, not as I do."

Especially when he cannot himself, as he is an elitist: "Do as I say, not as I do."
When did he say he cannot, does not, has not, will not?

Obama speaks passable Bahasa Indonesia (one of the most widely spoken languages in the world) which uses the Latin/Roman alphabet and has links to Romance languages of which Spanish is one.

From Chicago Daily Law Bulletin, April 26, 1997
David Heckelman

"Living in Indonesia was a fascinating time," Obama said, "because it gave me a good sense of what the Third World was like and what an emerging nation goes through." He learned to speak the Indonesian language while living there.

"I also speak a barely passable Spanish, and sometimes a barely passable English," he said, having studied the Spanish language and English literature at Occidental College in Los Angeles and at Columbia University in New York.

"I have a smattering of Swahili," he added, "because my father was from Kenya." He said he had traveled to that country to learn more about his father, who had died in 1980 and whom he had not known very well.

I know that Obama is more fluent in English than most of us.

He claimed he spole fluent Indonesian as a child, but has since backed away from that, after his teachers at both the Catholic School and the Muslim Indonesian public school Obama attended said Obama did not speak Indonesian at all.


Obama has claimed on numerous occasions to have become fluent in Indonesian in six months. Yet those who knew him disputed that during recent interviews.

Israella Pareira Darmawan, Obama's 1st-grade teacher, said she attempted to help him learn the Indonesian language by going over pronunciation and vowel sounds. He struggled greatly with the foreign language, she said, and with his studies as a result.
BARACK OBAMA: The not-so-simple story of Barack Obama's youth -- chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0703250359mar25,1,605874.story?page=3)

Tom,
You are positively obsessed with the man. You love him!

He could be the POTUS . That in my book compels me as an informed citizen to find out as much as I can about this blank slate.

Anyone watch his poll numbers drop like a rock last week ? Does anyone have a doubt that the numbers are tied into his ridicule of the average American ? This is not the 1st time in the campaign he's let it out that he holds the typical white /typical average American from rural areas / typical ignorant American who is not an elitist, in contempt.

Yea Tom that must be it. Great analysis!
Interesting how you got is all wrong though, he actually gained some points over the senile one:
RealClearPolitics - Election 2008 National Head-to-Head Polls (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html)

10145

Try again with the FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_uncertainty_and_doubt), I know you will, you are relentless. :)

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election. (http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll)


For the second straight day, the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll shows that the race for the White House is tied. Sunday's numbers show Barack Obama and John McCain each attracting 43% of the vote. When "leaners" are included, the two candidates are tied at 46%. For most of the past month-and-a-half, Obama has led McCain by approximately five percentage points.
It was the first time since Obama became the nominee on June 3 that McCain had equaled him.

Further,the poll indicated McCain is now viewed favorably by 56 percent of voters while Obama is favored by 54 percent. Obama received unfavorable reviews from 44 percent of voters while McCain is viewed unfavorably by 41 percent.

I think that is tied directly with Obama's idiotic statements about Americans. I also think that the margin would've been greater if McCain adviser Phil Graham did not call Americans "whiners".

When did he say he cannot, does not, has not, will not?
...

Will try to remember to footnote next time. Mr. Tom got it right.
Try this: "While the Obama campaign says that Obama speaks a little bit of Indonesian, Obama himself admits that he isn't bilingual. “I know because I don't speak a foreign language. It's embarrassing!” he said." I searched until finding this unbiased account: Como Se Dice? Obama Clarifies Comments Over Foreign Languages Political Radar (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/)

Funny that Tom, You show one poll where they are tied and I show a combination of various polls. You select the one only that shows they are tied. You throw names like "idiotic" around 'cause that's your style but don't expect all of us to buy in to your 'campaign'.

NK-

After hundreds of years this will be the first time an American President gives a state of union address that doesn't share the same appearance as many Americans of European extraction. Sure the majority of the anti-Obama posts are campaigned geared biases, but think of it as their rant therapy. Most educated Americans know better and when reading the context of articles or ingesting more than a soundbite, are well aware that McCain's days are but few. I actually like McCain, as a person, but point is that he wasn't even favored as electable by his own party in the 2000 Pub primaries when running against Dubya. Now look at the dissatisfaction that Dubya provided the majority of Americans as he soon escapes the White House to a ranch in Crawford, Texas. To borrow words from Choux as she put it, "it's bull-tonga."

Agreed Bam,
If Obama was really that unelectable they would focus on boosting McCain's visibility but instead they know they are running scared so all their posts are negative-campaigning posts. That says a lot about the fear welling up in them that their own candidate is sub-par.

Agreed Bam,
If Obama was really that unelectable they would focus on boosting McCain's visibility but instead they know they are running scared so all their posts are negative-campaigning posts. That says a lot about the fear welling up in them that their own candidate is sub-par.
You're definitely on to something, NK. One of the Chicago newspapers has frequent articles on Obama and his children and Obama and his love affair with his wife and Obama and his reading tastes and Obama and his spiritual concerns. The "Republican" paper has to be carefully paged through to find anything about McCain. What about McCain and his kids and McCain and his love affair with his wife and McCain and his reading tastes and McCain and his spiritual concerns? I don't know anything about the man to even care about him, much less to vote for him.

You're definitely on to something, NK. One of the Chicago newspapers has frequent articles on Obama and his children and Obama and his love affair with his wife and Obama and his reading tastes and Obama and his spiritual concerns. The "Republican" paper has to be carefully paged through to find anything about McCain. What about McCain and his kids and McCain and his love affair with his wife and McCain and his reading tastes and McCain and his spiritual concerns? I don't know anything about the man to even care about him, much less to vote for him.

I couldn't care less about the candidates kids.

I couldn't care less about the candidates love affairs with their wives.

I couldn't care less about the reading tastes of the candidates.

I am slightly concerned with the candidate Obama's spiritual concerns.

Without using any of these meaningless concerns, could you please share with us just exactly what it is that you "know" about Obama?

You know, meaningful things like what is he going to do about our high taxes?

What is he going to do about eliminating our dependence on Middle Eastern Oil?

What is he going to do about all the wasteful government entitlement programs?

What are the real and tangible accomplishments he has on his resume?

What are the examples of serious decisions he has had to make in his lifetime?

What kind of experience does he really have, other than community organizing?

Has he ever managed a company?

Has he ever even been an assistant manager of any company?

Has he ever supervised a large group of employee's before?

You know, the kind of stuff that really matters.

At last check, this post/question was posed, not by a conservative, but one of you libs. I agree with progunr: what qualifies Obama for the position he seeks? At the current point in his life, I can see where he might get elected to the board of education or city/county commissioner. U.S. Senator? He lacks Hillary's qualifications.

At last check, this post/question was posed, not by a conservative, but one of you libs. I agree with progunr: what qualifies Obama for the position he seeks? At the current point in his life, I can see where he might get elected to the board of education or city/county commissioner. U.S. Senator? He lacks Hillary's qualifications.
What professional qualifications and personal characteristics do you think are important to have in order to become POTUS?

I am the first to concede that MCCain is not my 1st choice. Still I am more confident with him at the helm then Bambi.

Yes Wondergirl I'm sure Bambi is more than qualified to be a local Chicago machine pol. And I'm sure is personally likeable... But that is not in itself make him qualified to be POTUS . To me his postions (prior to his "shift to the middle" )are too radical.

Also ; he is counting on a huge youth voter turn out and even if they do come out in force ;they are irrelevant demographically .

There's 42 million of the "Youth Vote" 17-26.

The next biggest group is people in their Thirties and Forties, which is 84 million .

Then we have people in their forties and fifties, who are 61.5 million in total.

Seniors, in their Sixties or older. 50.6 million .

Seniors outnumber the Youth Vote by about 8 million. Unlike the Youth Vote, which has never yet participated in elections in large numbers, Seniors vote. High percentages of seniors both register to vote, and then vote in each election. They are not going to vote for Hope and Change. They have simpler concerns like crime, and inflation.
The candidate that best deals with their concerns will win ;and I don't care how big a lead Bambio gets in the run up to the election. Dukakis at this point had a tremendous lead over GHW Bush,

At last check, this post/question was posed, not by a conservative, but one of you libs.You think SkyGem is a "you libs"? LOL!
More like she is part of this: John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President (http://www.johnmccain.com/ActionCenter/BlogInteract/BlogInteract.aspx) Points for posting. Obama's Web 2.0 strategy includes a vast social network to get people together and discuss ideas and sow the seeds of person to person networks, whereas McCain's web 2.0 strategy is incentivized trolling... how progressive. Why can't the GOP focus on doing positive things rather than muckraking?

The single most important qualification is the candidate's core beliefs. Voters need to know what a candidate believes about a variety of issues. After beleifs is experiences.

Yes Wondergirl I'm sure Bambi is more than qualified to be a local Chicago machine pol. and I'm sure is personally likeable .... But that is not in itself make him qualified to be POTUS . To me his postions (prior to his "shift to the middle" )are too radical.


Well, Obama wasn't a mediocre student throughout his academic career. He didn't graduate magna laude with a double major: Partying and Drinking. He didn't use his family's political connections to get him out of Vietnam or take a cushy job with the Texas National Guard. Hmmm, what could possibly qualify Obama? And how has this country done under all those other experienced Presidents? Does political experience even ensure success as President?

Well, Obama wasn't a mediocre student throughout his academic career. He didn't graduate magna laude with a double major: Partying and Drinking. He didn't use his family's political connections to get him out of Vietnam or take a cushy job with the Texas National Guard. Hmmm, what could possibly qualify Obama? And how has this country done under all those other experienced Presidents? Does political experience even ensure success as President?

I didn't see anyone ask about political experience.

Just plain old real life, management experience, decision making experience, running a business experience, managing people experience, not to be confused with community organizing experience.

Also, I wasn't aware that he had to worry about going to Viet Nam at the ripe old age of 12 either?

What National Guard Unit did you say he had cushy experience in?

I must have missed that.

community organizing experience.
I can tell you've never organized a community. What about a church supper? A Cub Scout den? A crew of court-ordered offenders? A class of 35 third and fourth graders? Hmmmm, I think I should give Obama a run for his money.

What National Guard Unit did you say he had cushy experience in?
The one that he AWOLed out of?

George W. Bush military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy)


I must have missed that.
Ya really got to keep up better than this, you know?

We are talking about Obama here.

Not revisiting the GW and Dan Rather debacle, that is old news, and it was not GW that suffered as a result of it.

Where is that Dan guy now anyway? Doesn't matter.

I want to know what National Guard Unit did Obama get HIS cushy experience in?

Oh, he was never in the National Guard?

What about a Reserve Unit?

Oh, that neither.

At last check, this post/question was posed, not by a conservative, but one of you libs. I agree with progunr: what qualifies Obama for the position he seeks? At the current point in his life, I can see where he might get elected to the board of education or city/county commissioner. U.S. Senator? He lacks Hillary's qualifications.

He DOES lack Hillary's qualifications! And that's a fact! George, since you are asking about Obama's qualifications and would be one to appreciate the GOP, thought you'd like to take a look at this.

GOP Videos Question Obama's Experience - Channel '08: The 2008 Election on Video (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/channel-08/2008/06/gop_questions_obamas_experienc.html)

These Presidents all saw action in Wartime.

George Washington - Commander in Chief of Continental Army during the American Revolution.
James Monroe - served in American Revolution
Andrew Jackson - American Revolution, War of 1812, First Seminole War
William Henry Harrison - Indian wars in the NW territory, War of 1812
John Tyler - War of 1812
Zachary Taylor - War of 1812, Black Hawk, Second Seminole, and Mexican wars
Franklin Pierce - Mexican War
James Buchanan - War of 1812
Abraham Lincoln - Black Hawk War
Andrew Johnson - Civil War
Ulysses Grant - Mexican War, Civil War
Rutherford Hayes - Civil War
James Garfield - Civil War
Chester Arthur - Civil War
Benjamin Harrison - Civil War
William McKinley - Civil War
Theodore Roosevelt - Spanish-American War
Harry Truman - WWI
Dwight Eisenhower - WWII General
John Kennedy - WWII
Lyndon Johnson - WWII
Richard Nixon - WWII
Gerald Ford - WWII
George Bush - WWII



The following served without conflict.

James Madison
James Polk
Millard Fillmore
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan - kept out of combat due to bad eyesight
George W. Bush


The remainder of the presidents were not in the military.

John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
John Quincy Adams
Martin Van Buren
Grover Cleveland
William Taft
Woodrow Wilson
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Herbert Hoover
Franklin Roosevelt
Bill Clinton

I didn't see anyone ask about political experience.

Just plain old real life, management experience, decision making experience, running a business experience, managing people experience, not to be confused with community organizing experience.

Also, I wasn't aware that he had to worry about going to Viet Nam at the ripe old age of 12 either?

What National Guard Unit did you say he had cushy experience in?

I must have missed that.

progunr, thought this website really hit the nail on the head about what you were discussing above as it's the Experience factor that truly qualifies one!

Re: WHAT ARE OBAMA'S QUALIFICATIONS? - City Hall - Election 2008 - Comcast.net Community Forums (http://community.comcast.net/comcastportal/board/message?board.id=cityhall&message.id=277386)

NK,

See! Relax and enjoy the moment. Think of it as watching kindergartners trying to master use of the blunted scissors, a box of crayons, construction paper, and Elmer's glue.


McCain: Obama 'Absolutely' Qualified to Be President - The Talk (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-talk/2008/04/mccain_obama_absolutely_qualif.html)

progunr, thought this website really hit the nail on the head about what you were discussing above as it's the Experience factor that truly qualifies one!
Experience in what, pray tell? Similar to Bush's experience (*cough*)--all that "experience' that has made him the prize he has become?

Experience in what, pray tell? Similar to Bush's experience (*cough*)--all that "experience' that has made him the prize he has become?

Goodness no, dear. Experience in being inexperienced, but pretending to be experienced, that's all dear.

________________________________________
Interested in the November presidential election? Have you heard? They're trying to take Hillary's delegates away!
Just Say No Deal!

Just Say No Deal (http://justsaynodeal.com/)

P.U.M.A: Howard Dean Schemes To Shut Down Democratic Convention (http://powerofpuma.blogspot.com/2008/06/howard-dean-schemes-to-shut-down.html)

And for ALL Obamanots:

Nobama Network - Dedicated to Unity Democrats, Republicans, Independents Election 2008 (http://www.nobamanetwork.com/)

Welcome to WriteHillaryIn.com (http://www.writehillaryin.com/)

Goodness no, dear. Experience in being inexperienced, but pretending to be experienced
You refuse to answer my question? Figures.

Experience in what, pray tell? Similar to Bush's experience (*cough*)--all that "experience' that has made him the prize he has become?
Texas is the second largest U.S. state in both area and population. After graduating from college, Bush worked in his family's oil businesses. He made an unsuccessful run for the United States House of Representatives in 1978. He co-owned the Texas Rangers baseball team before defeating Ann Richards to become Governor of Texas in 1994. In a close and controversial election, Bush was elected to the Presidency in 2000 as the Republican candidate. You don't have to like him, but it is safe to say he made a payroll, including paying salaries and taxes. Care to review and compare the Democrats for the last 50 years?

The Bush campaign was criticized for allegedly using controversial methods to disparage Richards. During his tenure as Texas governor, Bush signed the execution warrants for more death row inmates than any other Governor in the history of Texas, averaging a death every nine days. Gov. Bush's appointees at the Texas Natural Resource Conservation Commission (TNRCC) undermined new federal public health standards and state pollution inspections, rolled back regulations, and attempted to manipulate pollution data to help the industries they were charged with regulating. Many industry legislative initiatives during Gov. George W. Bush's term in office follow parallel themes: limiting liability for polluters, reducing public input on regulatory decisions, allowing 'voluntary' instead of mandatory compliance with environmental laws, and, allowing polluters to design their own anti-pollution programs. There is no trustworthy data to support Bush's exaggerated claims that Texas students' true academic proficiency dramatically improved on his watch. Every piece of trusted independent data shows the opposite.

It's too bad Obama doesn't have such great accomplishments in his back pocket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yes Wondergirl I'm sure Bambi is more than qualified to be a local Chicago machine pol. and I'm sure is personally likeable .... But that is not in itself make him qualified to be POTUS . To me his postions (prior to his "shift to the middle" )are too radical.



Well, Obama wasn't a mediocre student throughout his academic career. He didn't graduate magna laude with a double major: Partying and Drinking. He didn't use his family's political connections to get him out of Vietnam or take a cushy job with the Texas National Guard. Hmmm, what could possibly qualify Obama? And how has this country done under all those other experienced Presidents? Does political experience even ensure success as President?

More on Obama as a "community organizer " (in his own words... courtesy of the liberal New Yorker Magazine... don't be fooled by the stupid cover.. they love the guy)


"When I started organizing, I understood the idea of social change in a very abstract way," Obama told me last year. "It was to some extent informed by my years in Indonesia, seeing extreme poverty and disparities of wealth and understanding sort of in a dim way that life wasn’t fair and government had something to do with it. I understood the role that issues like race played and took inspiration from the civil-rights movement and what the student sit-ins had accomplished and the freedom rides.

"But I didn’t come out of a political family, didn’t have a history of activism in my family. So I understood these things in the abstract. When I went to Chicago, it was the first time that I had the opportunity to test out my ideas. And for the most part I would say I wasn’t wildly successful. The victories that we achieved were extraordinarily modest: you know, getting a job-training site set up or getting an after-school program for young people put in place."
The Political Scene: Making It: Reporting & Essays: The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=all)

Abstract ideas and theories qualifies him to be a professor ,not a leader.

abstract ideas and theories qualifies him to be a professor ,not a leader.
Wow! He certainly has come a long way then, hasn't he! What a quick learner and what a dynamic speaker who will lead our country into hitherto uncharted waters of accomplishment and productivity! Thanks, Tom! You've convinced me!

tomder55 agrees: as far as I can tell Bambi's "experience was handing out fliers and generating business for slumlord Rezko.
(I'm glad you qualified that with "as far as I can tell.")

You're slipping in the literature search department, Tom.

Wow! He certainly has come a long way then, hasn't he! What a quick learner and what a dynamic speaker who will lead our country into hitherto uncharted waters of accomplishment and productivity!

Ok I'm waiting breathlessly to hear what he has tangibly achieved that would convince me of his leadership ability.

He's quick to point out the faults of others... nah that isn't it. A critic is not an artist... and a community activist is not a national leader .

Hmmm. I've set up a few community programs and online sites all by myself, plus I have more life experience than Obama. Darn! Maybe I should have entered the big race! "Too Late Smart. Too soon old".

Hmmm. I've set up a few community programs and online sites all by myself, plus I have more life experience than Obama. Darn! Maybe I should have entered the big race! "Too Late Smart. Too soon old".Are you a senator? Post your resume and we'll discuss.

Hmmm. I've set up a few community programs and online sites all by myself, plus I have more life experience than Obama. Darn! Maybe I should have entered the big race! "Too Late Smart. Too soon old".

Could I be your running mate? Community roast beef dinners every Thursday! Autumn bazaars! Craft fairs! Woo woo!!

How can she be older than McCain and STILL be able to operate a computer? McCain can't.

Ummm he doesn't have to... as President all he'll need do is hire people to do work on computers .Maybe BO will apply.

I never said anything about being OLDER than McCain? Or for that matter anything about McCain at all? I know Reagan was older than McCain while in office and he did a darned fine job. I hope growing older doesn't mean you have to become feeble and useless.

Then join in the next presidential race! This your chance!

Edit to add: partner up with Tom, you guys would be unbeatable.

Quest for the Presidency -- McCain Profile (http://quest.cjonline.com/mccain/)

Education: U.S. Naval Academy, B.S., 1958; graduate work, National War College, 1973-1974


Decision '08: Candidate Profile Twelve: John McCain (http://decision08.blogspot.com/2005/03/candidate-profile-twelve-john-mccain.html)


Resume: United States Navy pilot, 1958-1981; prisoner of war in Vietnam 1967-1973; recipient of the Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart, and Distinguished Flying Cross; United States Congressman for Arizona, 1983-1986; United States Senator for Arizona, 1987 - present


Basically there are only three things listed on McCain's resume: Education, Military, and Politician. Senator McCain graduated in less than the bottom 2% of his class at Annapolis :eek:. Senator Obama graduated near the top of his class at Harvard Law. I can tell you guys that McCain does not have a large body of work for civilian qualifications. He can apply for more military duty, the police academy, a security guard, and perhaps secret service agencies. Assuming his pilot skills hasn't deteriorated, perhaps control tower or crop duster. And with my concern for his health and age, I could get him into a casino surveillance job, sitting down, and looking up at monitors, but not much else. I do understand why McCain's military experience has suddenly become the new Republican standard for presidency. There's simply not very much going for his campaign bid. And the situation is amusing! Back in the 2000 primaries the Pubs chose weekend warrior "Dubya" over their war hero. Politically neither McCain nor Obama has ever been more than a Senator. McCain himself has said that Obama is "absolutely" qualified.


PS. McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/mccain_post_card_word%5B1%5D.pdf

1 - Student pilot McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings.

2 - Pilot McCain III lost another plane two years later while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. ”Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral.

3 - Pilot McCain III lost number three in 1965 when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. McCain III radioed, ”I've got a flameout” and ejected at one thousand feet. The plane crashed to the ground and McCain III floated to a deserted beach.

4 - Combat pilot McCain III lost his fourth on July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk combat pilot. While waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain Jr's. plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.

5 - Combat pilot McCain III lost a fifth plane three months later (Oct. 26, 1967) during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam when he failed to avoid a surface-to-air missile. McCain III ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi. After being pulled from the lake by the North Vietnamese, McCain III was bayoneted in his left foot and shoulder and struck by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.

srbX26vp57c

This is a big advantage for him. As we already have clear proof of - America wants a president that doesn't intellectually intimidate them. The dumber the better.

Then join in the next presidential race! This your chance!

edit to add: partner up with Tom, you guys would be unbeatable.


Yes, I'd be honored to be his veep. I've known Tom online for maybe more than 10 years and he's the most thoroughly politically informed person I've ever known. Plus he's very fair, and wise enough to know when we're putting our own country in danger.

Yes, I'd be honored to be his veep. I've known Tom online for maybe more than 10 years and he's the most throughly politically informed person I've ever known. Plus he's very fair, and wise enough to know when we're putting our own country in danger.Then go for it. What's stopping you? I understand it's a bit of a process but meanwhile post your resume here and we'll see if you do indeed have the experience to be the country's leader.

McCain was an Executive Officer and commander of aviation squadron, VA-174, at Cecil Field in Florida. A review of Navy records and interviews with his former colleagues paint a picture of a commander who was lionized by his troops as a war hero and respected as a fair and effective manager. It was a squadron that trained pilots . He had 50 planes and over 100 recruits to train.Total personnel around 1,000 .At the time, it was the largest squadron in the Navy.Squadron commanders have enormous responsibility. In McCain's case, he trained new and transitional pilots on carrier missions, which is very difficult. When he first took charge, the squadron had a terrible morale and maintenance record. He transformed that squadron to make it a first-rate unit. He got rid of the deadwood in its officer corps and brought in new blood.

After his tour there he was appointed to the Navy's liaison to the Senate. He became involved in the defense budget fights of the Carter years being a strong effective advocate for the military. He built personal friendships and professional collaborations across political divide that showed throughout his years in the Senate. His reputation as a "maverick " is not without merit. He has infuriated me on many occasions . However ;if you are looking for a candidate to bridge the ideological divide ,McCain has a proven track record .Bambi only talks a good game.

Slanders by Weasley Clark ,Jay Rockefeller, Tom Harkin, Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann, and others will not diminish his record .Compared to Bambi ,McCain has a huge advantage if the issue is leadership ability or competence. The first job of a President is to keep the country safe, and McCain has decades of experience in this area. Bambi has none at all.

Compared to Bambi ,McCain has a huge advantage if the issue is leadership ability or competence.If you're comparing him to Bambi then I hope he does - but we aren't talking about deer here.

Obambi

Who?

McCain was an Executive Officer and commander of aviation squadron, VA-174, at Cecil Field in Florida. A review of Navy records and interviews with his former colleagues paint a picture of a commander who was lionized by his troops as a war hero and respected as a fair and effective manager. It was a squadron that trained pilots . He had 50 planes and over 100 recruits to train.Total personnel around 1,000 .At the time, it was the largest squadron in the Navy.Squadron commanders have enormous responsibility. In McCain's case, he trained new and transitional pilots on carrier missions, which is very difficult. When he first took charge, the squadron had a terrible morale and maintenance record. He transformed that squadron to make it a first-rate unit. He got rid of the deadwood in its officer corps and brought in new blood.

After his tour there he was appointed to the Navy's liason to the Senate. He became involved in the defense budget fights of the Carter years being a strong effective advocate for the military. He built personal friendships and professional collaborations across political divide that showed throughout his years in the Senate. His reputation as a "maverick " is not without merit. He has infuriated me on many occasions . However ;if you are looking for a candidate to bridge the ideological divide ,McCain has a proven track record .Bambi only talks a good game.

Slanders by Weasley Clark ,Jay Rockefeller, Tom Harkin, Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann, and others will not diminish his record .Compared to Bambi ,McCain has a huge advantage if the issue is leadership ability or competence. The first job of a President is to keep the country safe, and McCain has decades of experience in this area. Bambi has none at all.


Please document the info about McCain. Also, Wesley Clark did NOT slander McCain nor did he diminsh his record.

What part do you want documented ? It is all part of the public record.

The first job of a President is to keep the country safe, and McCain has decades of experience in this area. Hello tom:

I don't know. I read the Constitution, and I didn't read any of that stuff. It's actually NOT there. I think you right wingers are making it up. In fact, you are.

In the presidents oath of office, he swears to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION - not the people...

I wonder why our founders said THAT, instead of what you think they said?? Maybe because they're pretty smart guys. And, I thought you guy's were CONSTRUCTIONISTS - people who take the Constitution literally.

Ok, I'm waiting...

excon

Ex you complain about my "word games" ? As you know the founders left the language of Sec.2 intentionally vague... however , Sec 1 of the constitution describes how the President becomes President .Sec. 2 describes the President powers. 1st among them isSection 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.

Now I wonder why the founders enumerated the 1st power of the President is CIC if not to keep the country safe??

excon,
Want to know why the neocons say those thing? You must watch the BBC series "Power of Nightmares". You can bittorrent it, watch it on Google Video (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=power+of+nightmares&sitesearch=#) (best to watch them in order) or read about the series on Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_Nightmares). It's gripping stuff. It shows you how some of the people here have been conditioned to believe the things they do.

Ex you complain about my "word games" ? As you know the founders left the language of Sec.2 intentionally vague ...however , Sec 1 of the constitution describes how the President becomes President .Sec. 2 describes the President powers. 1st among them isSection 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.

Now I wonder why the founders enumerated the 1st power of the the President is CIC if not to keep the country safe????

Not to mention the preamble defining the constitution as "in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

It would seem defending the constitution IS providing for the common defense and securing the blessings of liberty of the people as commander in chief wouldn't it?

No one conditioned me . I have studied the constitution and what the founders said and wrote about it for years. I can say that such originalists as Jefferson and Hamilton had no problem utilizing an expansive role of the executive when they thought it warranted. Washington personally led the troops to quell the Wiskey Rebellion .Jefferson dispatched the navy to battle the jihadists in Barbary without Congressional approval to secure our commercial maritime interests . He also doubled the size of the nation without ratification of the Senate when he negotiated the Lousiana purchase.
Since the beginning Hamilton among others argued that there were implied powers of the Presidency that are not enumenrated . When issues of security are considered . So please ;save the psyco-babble for someone else.

Ex you complain about my "word games" .... Now I wonder why the founders enumerated the 1st power of the the President is CIC if not to keep the country safe????Hello again, tom:

As a strict constructionist, if the courts had ruled that "keeping the country safe" was what the founders meant when they made him CIC, you'd call that an ACTIVIST court. You'd say they MADE up stuff that the Constitution DOESN'T say. You'd say they're conferring powers and duties upon the president that ISN'T reflected in the WORDS used by the founders.

You'd be right.

excon

I am not a "strict constructionist,, I'm an originalist . I stand by what I wrote . The fact is that the courts on many occasions have confirmed that indeed the President's authority regarding security is implied . They have also on occasion blown it. What I don't find in the constitution is any role for SCOTUS in national security .

Hello again wingers:

How about this? How about keeping the country safe AND preserving, protecting and defending the Constitution? I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

You, along with the dufus in chief, think (and I've heard it before), that the Constitution is a suicide pact... You poor misguided fellows. If our Constitution isn't good enough for you, maybe you should find a country more to your liking...

Do you like getting some of your own medicine?

excon

Well for one thing, Obama is just being realistic. If they are not going to learn English, personally I feel they should have to, to become citizens. But on the upside of it, If they made it part of a school curriculum, what's the harm, it's not giving in. I live around the corner from a deli where the employees speak hardly any english, they speak polish, and have been there for years.
Plus, if you are bi-lingual today, you get a higher paying job and the job field is more open. So there is a plus side to what he is saying. And yes I am an avid Obama supporter. But that is nothing to how I feel about teaching spanish in our schools. It's not going to hurt them. My niece is a Spanish teacher. She loves it. And the kids she tells me love learning the language, I wish I had continued with it. It would make me much more employable.

excon,
Want to know why the neocons say those thing? You must watch the BBC series "Power of Nightmares". You can bittorrent it, watch it on Google Video (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=power+of+nightmares&sitesearch=#) (best to watch them in order) or read about the series on Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_Nightmares). It's gripping stuff. It shows you how some of the people here have been conditioned to believe the things they do.

LOL, ain't that the pot calling the kettle black? We poor dupes have been conditioned to believe in phantom groups like al-Qaeda because the enlightened left believes it has found a conspiracy. Apparently Clinton must have been on board the neo-con express since it was his administration that invented al-Qaeda.


in order to prosecute bin Laden in absentia for the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings, US prosecutors had to prove he was the head of a criminal organisation responsible for the bombings. They find a former associate of bin Laden, Jamal al-Fadl, and pay him to testify that bin Laden was the head of a massive terrorist organisation called "al-Qaeda".

Maybe you unconditioned types should hop on over to the al-Qaeda Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#History) and learn that "Al-Qaeda evolved from the Maktab al-Khadamat (Services Office), a Muslim organization founded in 1980 to raise and channel funds and recruit foreign mujahadeen for the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan. It was founded by Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, a Palestinian Islamic scholar and member of the Muslim Brotherhood," and "the organization that would eventually be called al-Qaeda, [was] formed by Osama bin Laden with an initial meeting held on August 11, 1988." Without the help of the CIA I might add...

In my small neighborhood there is English ,Spanish ,Creole ,and Yiddish routinely spoken. Here is the list of languages spoken in NYC
Languages Spoken, New York City (http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/chapter01_files/sheet011.htm)

This is not a bilingual nation but a multilingual one . There has to be some glue to hold the society togther and an unofficial or official English is one of them .

No ;Obama was not speaking the truth . He set up a strawman by saying that we wanted legislation for "English Only" and then he used mockery and ridicule to knock down his false premise.
It is important for immigrants to learn the English language to give them their best chance to succeed here. It is nice but not necessary that I learn their language .

We poor dupes have been conditioned to believe in phantom groups like al-Qaeda because the enlightened left believes it has found a conspiracy. It isn't a conspiracy borne from "the left" (whatever that is) it was an exposé by the BBC and they explain the reasoning behind it (did you even watch the 3 hours?).


Maybe you unconditioned types should hop on over to the al-Qaeda Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#History) and learn that "Al-Qaeda evolved from the Maktab al-Khadamat (Services Office), a Muslim organization founded in 1980 to raise and channel funds and recruit foreign mujahadeen for the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan. It was founded by Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, a Palestinian Islamic scholar and member of the Muslim Brotherhood," and "the organization that would eventually be called al-Qaeda, [was] formed by Osama bin Laden with an initial meeting held on August 11, 1988." Without the help of the CIA I might add...That is all in the series as well. No one disputes the Afghanistan connection, the problem is claiming that they are a well-organized groups in 60 countries.

This is not a bilingual nation but a multilingual one . There has to be some glue to hold the society togther and an unofficial or offical English is one of them.
That has always been the case, and it will continue to be the case.

It isn't a conspiracy borne from "the left" (whatever that is) it was an exposé by the BBC and they explain the reasoning behind it (did you even watch the 3 hours?).

That is all in the series as well. No one disputes the Afghanistan connection, the problem is claiming that they are a well-organized groups in 60 countries.

Oh, you mean the BBC that admitted they are "guilty of promoting Left-wing views (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23371706-details/Yes,%20we%20are%20biased%20on%20religion%20and%20p olitics,%20admit%20BBC%20executives/article.do) and an anti-Christian sentiment?" What's funny is that almost 8 years after 9/11, people like you and Curtis downplay the threat of al-Qaeda and bin Laden. What, 3000 dead Americans, two 110 story towers, massive Pentagon damage, years of al-Qaeda terrorist attacks in Iraq not enough to convince them of the threat from al-Qaeda?

the problem is claiming that they are a well-organized groups in 60 countries.

But of course no one has made such a claim .

But of course no one has made such a claim .
Wasn't this a question about Obama wanting Americans to learn Spanish, all of a sudden it became a discussion bashing Obama and his wife..

There must be a different category for your hatred of him.

Wasn't this a question about Obama wanting Americans to learn Spanish, all of a sudden it became a discussion bashing Obama and his wife..

There must be a different category for your hatred of him.

It's also been turned into a constitutional question and thanks to NK, an al-Qaeda conspiracy theory which is what tom was referring to. The quote you cited from tom had nothing to do with bashing Obama and his wife.

But of course no one has made such a claim .Your republicans leaders have.

Wasn't this a question about Obama wanting Americans to learn Spanish, all of a sudden it became a discussion bashing Obama and his wife..

There must be a different category for your hatred of him.


Bingo! They are reflective of their elected president that detoured the focus in Afghanistan to Iraq as OBL escaped to a cave sipping lemonade and preparing to stock the shelves at Blockbuster.

Need Karma:
Kudos to *******

Bobby and reesetess I was not the one who moved the discussion off topic .

It's also been turned into a constitutional question and thanks to NK, an al-Qaeda conspiracy theory which is what tom was referring to. The quote you cited from tom had nothing to do with bashing Obama and his wife.


Excuse me I'm new, it's your quotes I'm referring to. Why don't you try some new ones, I'm sure you have billions of them. You have a nice day... Don't forget to bone up on your english. If you like we can all chip in and get you spanish lessons... Maybe Chinese too, Oh I guess it's okay they don't speak english, They serve great food, right?

Wasn't this a question about Obama wanting Americans to learn Spanish, all of a sudden it became a discussion bashing Obama and his wife..

There must be a different category for your hatred of him.

I find it amusing how any simple statement of truth, that does not place the Messiah or his Wife, up on some towering pedestal, is always referred to as 'BASHING".

I find it amusing how any simple statement of truth, that does not place the Messiah or his Wife, up on some towering pedestal, is always referred to as 'BASHING".This is not a discussion about Jesus, take that elsewhere please.

http://images.quickblogcast.com/35238-32833/ObamaFish1.jpg (http://exurbanleague.com/2008/05/15/barack-chamberlain.aspx)

Excuse me I'm new, it's your quotes I'm referring to. why don't you try some new ones, I'm sure you have billions of them. You have a nice day... Don't forget to bone up on your english. if you like we can all chip in and get you spanish lessons... Maybe Chinese too, Oh I guess it's okay they don't speak english, They serve great food, right?

Well pardon me reesetess, but if it's my quotes you're referring to then why did you quote tom? And since I haven't said a word about Obama and/or his wife in this post it would seem your observations are nothing more than mere imaginations. For the record, I know enough Spanish to get by, I attended predominantly Hispanic schools and I've lived in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood for most of my life - and I made A's in English. I've also had 2 years of French - but I like Mexican food much better than French or Chinese.

Coming from a christian, isn't that blasphemy?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster_bumper_sticker.svg/250px-Flying_Spaghetti_Monster_bumper_sticker.svg.png

I often wonder, if Obama were the Republican candidate and McCain the Democratic one, what would be posted here.

Wondergil,
As you can see, they worship Obama. They believe he is a god.

purplewings agrees: How do you know it will always be the case? Things change quickly.
I said "will continue to be the case." I didn't say "will always be the case."

Tombder55.
You're cute.. Hope you are having fun.
Time to ignore.

I'm not on this to argue with people... You on the other hand obvioulsy are..
You have a nice day... oh by the way I said something nuevo. Noh she preh-oh-koo-peh,eh-stoy ah-boo-ree-doh,
SAH-LOOD!

Oh please... what is the difference in continuing to be or always being??

Pro I think the left and the right on this site have both been guilty of name calling. From the "left" You get McBush and McSame. From the "right" you get bambi obambi obamanation you yourself call him the messiah. So you can now throw yourself in your statement that there is very little substance in any of the information posted Just name calling because you are just as guilty of name calling as anyone else.

Pro I think the left and the right on this site have both been guilty of name calling. From the "left" You get McBush and McSame. From the "right" you get bambi obambi obamanation you yourself call him the messiah. So you can now throw yourself in your statement that there is very little substance in any of the information posted Just name calling because you are just as guilty of name calling as anyone else.

All one has to do is pull up a user, and look at the OVERALL substance and tone of their posts.

I challenge anyone to compare the posts from me, or others on the political Right, with the huge majority of the posts from the folks on the political Left.

It is easy to pick a single post here or there, but all one really has to do is look at the bigger picture, and the overall "substance" in general.

[QUOTE=reesetessdisagrees: Your comment about the messiah pretty much says it all. Sorry disagree. BASHING

Please read the terms of use for rating an answer.

All one has to do is pull up a user, and look at the OVERALL substance and tone of their posts.

I challenge anyone to compare the posts from me, or others on the political Right, with the huge majorith of the posts from the folks on the political Left.

It is easy to pick a single post here or there, but all one really has to do is look at the bigger picture, and the overall "substance" in general.
Unfortunately if we did that you may find that the results are not in your favour my friend.

Pro I think the left and the right on this site have both been guilty of name calling. From the "left" You get McBush and McSame. From the "right" you get bambi obambi obamanation you yourself call him the messiah. So you can now throw yourself in your statement that there is very little substance in any of the information posted Just name calling because you are just as guilty of name calling as anyone else.

I' think I'm with you, and we are acting like children, but they did start it... (kidding)
So we like Obama, and they don't.. That's why we are Americans , right?

Unfortunately if we did that you may find that the results are not in your favour my friend.

I have no fear, and stand by my statement.

If you would like to compare and post your results, go for it.

Unfortunately if we did that you may find that the results are not in your favour my friend.
I wouldn't count McCains' medals's on that one..

I'll let someone else. I only pop in here during lulls at work.

I think it is good to learn a second language. I'm going to let you in on a little secret Obama did not start this trend. It was a requirement when I was in high school ten years ago to take a second language just to graduate. I will also add that the more publicized language throughout my school was spanish.
I can understand and speak a great deal of spanish and that helped a lot when i lived in miami, but now i've moved onto learning french because i believe that educating yourself about another's culture is what makes great and intelligent people.
I have a question though why is sky so angry? is it that he doesn't want children to be educated or is he mad that they are getting forced into being educated?

Now that's a good question? Why is Sky so angry? I also had to learn a second language in high school to graduate, and I chose spanish also, because it was the easiest I think, and fun to learn, sure don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about it..

Pro at least I can admit that both sides are name calling. You can't even man up and say Spit your right both sides are name calling and it is childish. Instead you have to make it even more childish by saying well you do it more then us. It's sad really.

Pro at least I can admit that both sides are name calling. You can't even man up and say Spit your right both sides are name calling and it is childish. Instead you have to make it even more childish by saying well you do it more then us. It's sad really.

Wow, why don't you follow your quote and pick up the pieces and start some other way.

Pro at least I can admit that both sides are name calling. You can't even man up and say Spit your right both sides are name calling and it is childish. Instead you have to make it even more childish by saying well you do it more then us. It's sad really.

I couldn't care less what names you folks want to call McCain, or any candidate for that matter.

What was being addressed here, are the personal attacks and name calling of users on this site, and the outpouring of hatred towards the site users, not the candidates.

But as usual, it gets twisted completely away from the correct subject, again without any substance.

I think I heard the bell ring, recess is over now.

Don't worry a few of you are just a little too serious and hostile for me... I think You can all keep your opinions and you'll be happy to know as a new user, I think I will stay away from most of you on this board..
You don't scare me or anything, you just seem very hostile...

Are there any happy sites? Forget it don't answer that... I don't want to know, I'll find them myself.

What was being addressed here, are the personal attacks and name calling of users on this site, and the outpouring of hatred towards the site users, not the candidates.


I assumed we were talking about calling the candidates names (we all know what happens when a person ASSumes!! ) Personal attacks on users should not be tolerated. Pro I apologize for calling you childish. Oh and when the recess bell used to ring at my school I was still in class missing recess as a punishment for being the class clown.

I often wonder, if Obama were the Republican candidate and McCain the Democratic one, what would be posted here.

Wondergirl, it's the person, not the party. I have no qualms about criticizing Republicans - especially our own Gov. Goodhair Perry.

Coming from a christian, isn't that blasphemy?

We're not the ones that believe he's the Messiah (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/yes-messiah-has-come-236561.html).

Don't worry a few of you are just a lil too serious and hostile for me... I think You can all keep your opinions and you'll be happy to know as a new user, I think I will stay away from most of you on this board..
You don't scare me or anything, you just seem very hostile...

Are there any happy sites? Forget it don't answer that... I don't wanna know, I'll find them myself.
Actually, they are all fun people as long as you don't talk religion or politics with them.

Unfortunately if we did that you may find that the results are not in your favour my friend.

Like your response to the death of Tony Snow (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/tony-snow-rest-peace-237211.html#post1149055) for instance?

Reesetess, Wondergirl is correct. As much as we argue about politics and religion Pro and Tom give great advice on this site and I respect their advice very much on other subjects. Don't get discouraged because of the jabs we take at each other on the political topics. This site and ALL the people on it are caring and kind when it comes to giving real advice. And there are a lot of users who do not post in the political topic's that are pure sweethearts. I should have listened to my grandfather who said never discuss religion or politics with people.

Back to the original post, Steve and Cokie Roberts believe “English only” proposals are "mean-spirited measures designed to punish new Americans (http://www.sj-r.com/opinions/x469159321/Cokie-and-Steve-Roberts-Immigration-foes-need-to-go-to-naturalization-event)." Hogwash.

Well thanks Wondergirl, I would have to agree with you on that, they are hot topics...
I'm sure everyone is nice, I just get tired of arguing. I found myself getting pulled in.

Everyone has a right to their opinion. But I also apologize for any needless words I may have said. I was really just doing it in fun, I am quite a Sarcastic Person...

So thanks everyone for an interesting afternoon... Though I am behind Obama. I just can't see having McCain for our president. And that;s my opinion... God Bless you all.

Like your response to the death of Tony Snow (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/tony-snow-rest-peace-237211.html#post1149055) for instance?Yea, I still don't think he`s a good guy. How does that address name calling on this site.:confused:

Well thanks Wondergirl, I would have to agree with you on that, they are hot topics...
I'm sure everyone is nice, I just get tired of arguing. I found myself getting pulled in.

Everyone has a right to their opinion. But I also apologize for any needless words I may have said. I was really just doing it in fun, I am quite a Sarcastic Person...

So thanks everyone for an interesting afternoon...Though I am behind Obama. I just can't see having McCain for our president. And that;s my opinion....... God Bless ya all.
At least TWO of us will be voting for Obama, reesetess. And I suspect there will be a few more besides you and me. :D

Whenever I feel pulled in, I get off the computer and go into the kitchen to find a snack. Hmmm. Wait a minute! This is not good!

I often wonder, if Obama were the Republican candidate and McCain the Democratic one, what would be posted here.
We need to get back to fundamentals; I doubt Obama could be elected as Republican anywhere, including New York, Maine, Washington, or Oregon.

We need to get back to fundamentals; I doubt Obama could be elected as Republican anywhere, including New York, Maine, Washington, or Oregon.
Squinch your eyes real tight shut and imagine Obama is the Republican nominee. Republicans would be proud of his thespian skills, his beautiful family, his desire to encourage individualism and self-respect, his comfort with all types of people, his religious values.

George_1950 agrees: Such a conservative notion.

*cough*

Well, I AM a Republican...

Coming from a christian, isn't that blasphemy?

Actually no it isn't .I don't worship symbols .

Squinch your eyes real tight shut and imagine Obama is the Republican nominee. Republicans would be proud of his thespian skills, his beautiful family, his desire to encourage individualism and self-respect, his comfort with all types of people, his religious values.
I have no doubt that the Republican Party will be represented by a black man or woman of substance who is electable, unlike Mr. Obama. Now, Ms. Wondergirl, may I have a cite for Obama's encouragement of individualism, without redefining the meaning of the word? That really is the point at which the political parties diverge.

At least TWO of us will be voting for Obama, reesetess. And I suspect there will be a few more besides you and me. :D

Whenever I feel pulled in, I get off the computer and go into the kitchen to find a snack. Hmmm. Wait a minute!! This is not good!

Actually that sounded like a fine idea, I have shrimp in the fridge, I grew up in chicago, nice place, you're lucky.

We'll just have to be careful what we snack on, I guess. There's going to be a lotta snacking going on until the election.

George_1950:

I'm not sure I am following you. Are you saying that Obama is like Hitler? Please clarify? The republican party is being represented by a man who wants to continue the war, who wants to continue Bush's administration, who let's face it, is too old to be our president, I pray he picks a decent republican for a running mate, for fear he will not make the 4 years. My Dad is 86 and a kicker, but age has to be a factor here. Don't you think? /Yes I am back for more punishment.
I think Obama thinks a lot about who his running mate will be, let's face it, he is black, he stands for all the things the Kennedy's did, and look what happened to them.

He is target waiting to happen, yet he still stands up for our country, and our country should come first. Our hunger, our oil crisis, our economy, I mean all this guy needs is someone who is like him, but has stronger knowledge and background with Foreign Policy .

I wonder, what the world would be like today had Gore won. I am not a devout democrat,
And I do believe Bush Jr. has had to deal with more crisis than a president has in a long time, But he handled it badly, He is not his father.

I believe I can look at both sides here, but what a mess Bush is leaving for the next President and cabinet to take on... It's a war zone, not only Iraq , Afghanistan, Israel, Korea, what about us "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". We spend billions of dollars researching Mars, when we have hunger, unemployed, no insurance...

I just can't understand the Republican point of view on this, I use to be Independent, well I am now a democrat.

George_1950:

I'm not sure I am following you. Are you saying that Obama is like Hitler? Please clarify? The republican party is being represented by a man who wants to continue the war, who wants to continue Bush's administration, who let's face it, is too old to be our president, I pray he picks a decent republican for a running mate, for fear he will not make the 4 years. My Dad is 86 and a kicker, but age has to be a factor here. Don't you think? /Yes I am back for more punishment.
I think Obama thinks alot about who his running mate will be, let's face it, he is black, he stands for all the things the Kennedy's did, and look what happened to them.

He is target waiting to happen, yet he still stands up for our country, and our country should come first. Our hunger, our oil crisis, our economy, I mean all this guy needs is someone who is like him, but has stronger knowledge and background with Foreign Policy .

I wonder, what the world would be like today had Gore won. I am not a devout democrat,
And I do believe Bush Jr. has had to deal with more crisis than a president has in a long time, But he handled it badly, He is not his father.

I believe I can look at both sides here, but what a mess Bush is leaving for the next President and cabinet to take on... It's a war zone, not only Iraq , Afghanistan, Israel, Korea, what about us "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". We spend billions of dollars researching Mars, when we have hunger, unemployed, no insurance...

I just can't understand the Republican point of view on this, I use to be Independent, well I am now a democrat.

I know this was for George, but I see things I have questions about.

Obama on the oil crisis? And what are his solutions? I've heard him say he is against drilling, he is against nuclear power, and is against the further development of coal use.
So having stated his stand, what does he offer as a solution? Are we going to be driving around with a big windmill on our vehicles?

Obama on the economy? I just heard part of a speech by Obama where he was asked if he would implement his huge tax increases and increases in government entitlements and volunteer programs immediately upon being elected to the office of President?

His answer was NO, it would have negative impacts on our already distressed economy. In his own words, we have to wait until the economy gets better, before his plans can be implemented , which will still have a negative effect, it just won't be so dramatic as long as the economy is in better shape then, than it is now.

WE need to obtain our own oil. AS long as WE keep sending 700 billion dollars a year to the Middle East, our economy will continue to suffer.

The excuse I keep hearing from the left is that it will take 5, 10, or more years for us to benefit from the decision to drill for our own oil. Ok, so if we don't drill now, where will we be in 5, 10 or more years?

The other excuse is that the oil companies already have millions of acres of land that are approved for drilling, and they are not using them. What they don't tell you is that these millions of acres, don't have vast supplies of oil, and would not be profitable to begin drilling on.

The oil companies are a business. If we give them access to the places were vast amounts of oil can be obtained, they are ready to go to work and get it, and some have lowered the estimates down to as little as 3 years before we could be using our oil instead of the Middle Eastern, terrorist supported oil we are a willing hostage to now.

You sound like a very nice person, I'm sorry to see you so impressed by this guy who stands for nothing, offers no real solutions, but I have to agree, he is a very likable guy, truly impressive in his oratory, and able to say whatever the audience at the time is wanting to hear.

what does he offer as a solution? Are we going to be driving around with a big windmill on our vehicles?
It might even be better than that. People already are coming up with ingenious solutions in order to avoid using gas-guzzling vehicles. It's time this country thinks outside the box--and begins to conserve its resources.


The other excuse is that the oil companies already have millions of acres of land that are approved for drilling, and they are not using them. What they don't tell you is that these millions of acres, don't have vast supplies of oil, and would not be profitable to begin drilling on.
I've heard just the opposite, that there is oil there, but the company heads like it that oil is expensive. More profits that way.

Obama is not only thoughtful and canny, but also listens to all the possibilities.

Spitvenom I thanks you for your endorsement and I hope none of what I wrote can be construed as a personal attack on anyone of the users.

As for the subject of the posting I reserve the right to parody and to poke fun of him . Those who know me understand that I am not really enamoured with John McCain but am forced to support the candidate that will best serve the country.

Obamanation is Obama~ nation . Those of us who have used similar ridicule are poking at the cult like following he had until recently when the veneer began to peel . Obambi and Bambi illustrates his lack of experience . I think he will be a deer in the headlights once he is elected. I have called him BO because of the delight others have had playing on the middle initial of President Bush (Dubaya).

So as it should come as no surprise I have also a slew of names I have called Bill and Hillary Clinton and also major MSM publications.

There have been columns in recent days about how it is hard to find the humor in the man. Part of the reason I think is that he has shown a remarkablely thin skin... even when a liberal magazine has a cartoon on it's cover parodying the so called conservative view of him.

I do this for fun and to exchange ideas and to help when I can be useful . Escape ;hobby whatever . I try very hard not to make it personal or to take it personally.

As for the issue of teaching children a foreign language ;when I weigh it against the other deficiencies of the public school system I do not place it high on the list of priorities... not when children come out of 12 years of school often illiterate and a poor understanding of their own language ; untrained in the very basic survival math skills and completely ill prepared to function as adults . Very often colleges are forced to reteach them on the basic skills they should've come out of high school sufficiently .
I expressed why I thought Obama made his statement and why I thought he was being disengenuous on posting 13 and 171.

Bobby and reesetess I was not the one who moved the discussion off topic .

Well, what a surprise! I'm sure somebody on thread twelve hacked into your user name and moved the discussion to polls. And it certainly wouldn't be like you to shmooze on fabricated elitism or join in on the Republican seminars on messiah theology every other post? Nah. Not you! :rolleyes:

It might even be better than that. People already are coming up with ingenious solutions in order to avoid using gas-guzzling vehicles. It's time this country thinks outside the box--and begins to conserve its resources.


I've heard just the opposite, that there is oil there, but the company heads like it that oil is expensive. More profits that way.

Obama is not only thoughtful and canny, but also listens to all the possibilities.

We are conserving our resources, OUR oil is still in the ground while we send 700 billion dollars a year to the Middle East, I take it you are OK with that.

The oil companies make about 4 cents a gallon from the gas we pump into our "guzzlers".

Who did you "hear" that from?

The only people happy about the price of oil are the folks on the left, who are in bed with the whacko environmentalists, who hate capitalism, and see the price as a way to control the "killing of the planet".

How do you think every single thing you use or buy gets to your city or town?

It has to get there by the use of OIL. You may not like it but it is a fact.

It's great to say we need alternate forms of energy, and it's great to work on developing them.

The problem is, we need the OIL now... today... right this minute... and the longer we delay in using our own, the worse things are going to get.

Who cares if we are depleting the ozone layer if we can't afford to buy the food we need to stay alive to begin with?

I did not move the discussion to polls . Sorry I understand it is getting late ;but I clearly used the polling number to illustrate the effect that his continuing disparaging the "average " American is having on his popularity . As I have now frequently mentioned ;I think his continuous ridicule of the "typical" American is the inherent premise of his remarks about language.

Progunr:
I could be sarcastic and say just by your name you are a republican... I think it is sad, that you want to stay with the same ridiculous policies that have done nothing but ruin ours. My kids, my grandkids civilization , and not want to try something different, that just might work, heck it's only 4 years, Look What your Bush Jr. has done to this nation in his given , and trust me given 8... You're Republican aren't you... I don't think anyone can sway your minds.. My Dad is one, and I was grateful they are a dying breed.

Tell me , what is so great about McCain?

I did not move the discussion to polls . I clearly used the polling number to illustrate the effect that his continuing disparaging the "average " American is having on his popularity . As I have now frequently mentioned ;I think his continuous ridicule of the "typical" American is the inherent premise of his remarks about language.




So the mentioning of the polls were mere references reflective of how unpopular it would be to learn Spanish, and that a second language translates into elitism? Sweet dreams "Tom." Get some sleep.

Spitvenom I thanks you for your endorsement and I hope none of what I wrote can be construed as a personal attack on anyone of the users.

As for the subject of the posting I reserve the right to parody and to poke fun of him . Those who know me understand that I am not really enamoured with John McCain but am forced to support the candidate that will best serve the country.

Obamanation is Obama~ nation . Those of us who have used simular ridicule are poking at the cult like following he had until recently when the veneer began to peel . Obambi and Bambi illustrates his lack of experience . I think he will be a deer in the headlights once he is elected. I have called him BO because of the delight others have had playing on the middle initial of President Bush (Dubaya).

So as it should come as no suprise I have also a slew of names I have called Bill and Hillary Clinton and also major MSM publications.

There have been columns in recent days about how it is hard to find the humor in the man. Part of the reason I think is that he has shown a remarkablely thin skin ...even when a liberal magazine has a cartoon on it's cover parodying the so called conservative view of him.

I do this for fun and to exchange ideas and to help when I can be useful . Escape ;hobby whatever . I try very hard not to make it personal or to take it personally.

As for the issue of teaching children a foreign language ;when I weigh it against the other deficiencies of the public school system I do not place it high on the list of priorities........not when children come out of 12 years of school often illiterate and a poor understanding of their own language ; untrained in the very basic survival math skills and completely ill prepared to function as adults . Very often colleges are forced to reteach them on the basic skills they should've come out of high school sufficiently .
I expressed why I thought Obama made his statement and why I thought he was being disengenuous on posting 13 and 171.


Tom:
Has anyone ever asked you to be quiet. You are way to trying to goat us all, don't be taken in by him... He talks about his children, Well my daughet graduated high honors, goes to a fabulous college , works for an investment company, and yes is 21 and loves and rallys and does everything for a little change in this world. It can't really get much worse can it.. My daughetr knows three languages, because she chose to.. you are blaming the sytstem on either poor parenting, or you brought your kids up where they didn't have a choice, well being a single mother, I made sure my children had choices... My Kids sat in classes with 30 or more per student, but somehow, they did okay, Don'
T blame the system Tom... Oh yeah and by the way what children come out of the system illiterate and poor untrained? Come on... You are using it as a scapegoat.

Did you think the Comic cover of the New Yorker by Billy B, was funny the other day too?

Progunr:
I could be sarcastic and say just by your name you are a republican... I think it is sad, that you want to stay with the same ridiculous policies that have done nothing but ruin ours. my kids, my grandkids civilization , and not want to try something different, that just might work, heck it's only 4 years, Look What your Bush Jr. has done to this nation in his given , and trust me given 8... You're Republican aren't you.... I don't think anyone can sway your minds.. My Dad is one, and I was grateful they are a dying breed.

Tell me , what is so great about McCain?
There is nothing great about McCain, you will not see me bloviating here about what a wonderful candidate he is, or what a wonderful President he will make.

Actually, I'm an independent who leans towards the conservative side... well sometimes I actually LEAP to the conservative side, depending on the issue at hand.


The issues that McCain stands way above Obama on though, are as follows:

Keeping taxes as low as possible.

Starting NOW to obtain our own oil and shut off the flow of our money to the Middle East.

The appointment of conservative Supreme Court Justices who will not legislate from the bench.

A strong Military background, able to keep our Nation Safe and our Military strong.

The conservative position on Government Entitlements and personal responsibility.

The experience of making hard decisions, under extreme conditions, and having served our Nation Honorably and with great dedication.

Actually having real life experience in many areas, including managing people, meeting deadlines, discipline and the chain of command, as well as military strategy.

Not having so many Strong attachments to so many extremely radical associates.

Can you present a similar list of qualities or real accomplishments you admire about your candidate?

George_1950:

I'm not sure I am following you. Are you saying that Obama is like Hitler? Please clarify? ...
he stands for all the things the Kennedy's did....

He is target waiting to happen, yet he still stands up for our country, and our country should come first. Our hunger, our oil crisis, our economy, I mean all this guy needs is someone who is like him, but has stronger knowledge and background with Foreign Policy .

I wonder, what the world would be like today had Gore won....

I believe I can look at both sides here, but what a mess Bush is leaving for the next President....

I just can't understand the Republican point of view on this, I use to be Independent, well I am now a democrat.
The answer to your question about Obama and Hitler is one that I will let you answer. The question is, do you want more government or less government? Did Hitler want more government or less?
I don't concede that Obama is in the mold of the Kennedy's, other than Ted, who is an aberration.
I'ld rather not think about living in Gore's world; I mean, he created the internet, right?
Bush is not leaving a mess; case in point: Bush proposed a comprehensive energy policy in the first year or two of his first term. My recollection is it was filibustered, so who is to blame?
In the final analysis: you desire more government or less?

Progunr:
I could be sarcastic and say just by your name you are a republican... I think it is sad, that you want to stay with the same ridiculous policies that have done nothing but ruin ours. my kids, my grandkids civilization , and not want to try something different, that just might work, heck it's only 4 years, Look What your Bush Jr. has done to this nation in his given , and trust me given 8... You're Republican aren't you.... I don't think anyone can sway your minds.. My Dad is one, and I was grateful they are a dying breed.

Tell me , what is so great about McCain?
Please, madam, take a deep breath and splash some cool water on your face.

We are conserving our resources, OUR oil is still in the ground while we send 700 billion dollars a year to the Middle East, I take it you are OK with that.
Then we need to change that, don't we.


The oil companies make about 4 cents a gallon from the gas we pump into our "guzzlers".
I misspoke. The investors, the stockholders like high prices that way. Who are the stockholders?


How do you think every single thing you use or buy gets to your city or town?
The wonder and beauty of it all is that families are beginning to buy local products and grow their own food (and put it up like we used to do) and are walking places instead of driving all those short distances and are taking in all the getaway spots near their own locations. Nuthin wrong with that--gas conservation so the delivery people have enough. After all, do we really need wooden red strawberries in March and thick-rinded lemons in October? Do we have to take expensive vacations so our kids have "great" memories? Why do you think the citizens of this country are overweight? Not from walking anywhere.


Who cares if we are depleting the ozone layer if we can't afford to buy the food we need to stay alive to begin with?
Oh, there will be plenty of oil for the food delivery trucks if the SUV (and other gas-guzzler vehicles) owners stop using them for one-person trips to the mall and, if every time we need something from the store, we hop into the car and drive the seven blocks there. I've read how many billions of gallons of gas have not been used simply because people stopped going somewhere any time they felt like going somewhere. We are a gas-guzzling nation. I hope the price hits $5/gal. before it's over. We need to be made aware of our stupidity.

And this has to do with original topic? I want to play!



Keeping taxes as low as possible.

False. McCain will keep the taxation down on the wealthy, which is his family and buddies.



Starting NOW to obtain our own oil and shut off the flow of our money to the Middle East.

Ok. Stop spending money in Iraq.


The appointment of conservative Supreme Court Justices who will not legislate from the bench.

Conservative is necessarily good?


A strong Military background, able to keep our Nation Safe and our Military strong.

Pure BS. We were attacked on the Republican watch. Let's just hope Homeland Security continues doing their job.


The conservative position on Government Entitlements and personal responsibility.

Otherwise known as keep corporation executives happy.


The experience of making hard decisions, under extreme conditions, and having served our Nation Honorably and with great dedication.

What extreme conditions? I know exactly where John McCain takes his vacations with Cindy's money.


Actually having real life experience in many areas, including managing people, meeting deadlines, discipline and the chain of command, as well as military strategy.

What do you mean, "as well as military strategy" experience? Outside of politics he has no civilian management work history.


Not having so many Strong attachments to so many extremely radical associates.

Are you kidding me? http://www.realchange.org/mccain.htm



Can you present a similar list of qualities or real accomplishments you admire about your candidate?

I wouldn't want to and that's a good thing. I'd rather provide positive attributes in my support of Obama.

OK, I give up, you obviously have a warped sense of reality.

It's not your fault though, someone else must be responsible.

Why don't you move to some third world country, where you can grow your own food, with the money the US sends to make sure you won't starve.

You can probably buy a donkey, and use that for transportation.

When it gets old enough, it could be a good food source for you.

Make sure it's a country that doesn't get too cold, since you won't be using any fuel for heat.

Don't worry about the 120 degree temps, you'll get used to not having any air conditioning, after a while.

You might want to start getting used to not having anything cold to drink either since you won't be using any fuel to provide any electricity either.

Me, I prefer to live in the present day, and not to revert back to living like it is still the stone age.

Oh, and by the way...

Where is your list of qualifications and experience for your candidate?

I wouldn't want to and that's a good thing. I'd rather provide positive attributes in my support of Obama.

I asked for a "positive attributes" list for Obama, didn't I?

But you "wouldn't want to"?

Understandable.

There are none.

Go back and read what you've just written about your daughter regarding her education and employment and then a little further down where you 'blame the system'. Aren't you a little confused here? It seems your daughter was given a great start by the very government you are bashing. It is not all about the war. We have to consider our day to day living too. A little change is good - that's why we have elections every four years. The change you're stumping for give us no real information whether they will be good or destroy us. Obama is a master at being untruthful. He started that way and continues that way - and yet you truly believe he will be good for this country? Or are you just following the Liberal ideas because it's a stance away from Bush right now?
*********
Barack Obama’s global poverty bill has thankfully been stalled in the senate by two conservative Republicans. But it won’t go away, we need to stay on top of this and make sure it goes away forever. This bill was being fast tracked through the senate because of how dangerous it really is.

Cliff Kincaid of Accuracy in Media, a conservative media watchdog, said S. 2433 has been getting “a pass” from Congress. It received absolutely no scrutiny in the House last fall, when it was passed on a voice vote, and no scrutiny last week in the Senate, when the Foreign Relations Committee also passed it on a voice vote.

This would commit hundreds of billions of additional money from the United States and that money would have to come from somewhere. Any guesses who would lose out here? Working Americans.
(and we'd be obligated by the UN who has already shown their own dishonesty by diverting the "Oil for Food" money for their own personal use.)

And you suggest McCain will overtax us?

Also, I can tell you which kids come out of the school system illiterate. Inner city kids from all over the country. I live in a suburb near Detroit where the schools have failed to the extreme that our state & federal government have become alarmed.



Tom:
Has anyone ever asked you to be quiet. You are way to trying to goat us all, don't be taken in by him... He talks about his children, Well my daughet graduated high honors, goes to a fabulous college , works for an investment company, and yes is 21 and loves and rallys and does everything for a lil change in this world. It can't really get much worse can it.. My daughetr knows three languages, because she chose to.. you are blaming the sytstem on either poor parenting, or you brought your kids up where they didn't have a choice, well being a single mother, I made sure my children had choices... My Kids sat in classes with 30 or more per student, but somehow, they did okay, Don'
t blame the system Tom... Oh yeah and by the way what children come out of the system illiterate and poor untrained? Come on... You are using it as a scapegoat.

Why don't you move to some third world country, where you can grow your own food, with the money the US sends to make sure you won't starve.

Pssst know little,

I have a residence in the US, live and work in Vegas, and own a second home in a third world SE Asian country known as the Philippines; specifically in a city called, "Davao City (http://www.davaocity.gov.ph/)." I also own two hectares of rice plantation two hours south of there in Mawab. I'm considering opening up a restaurant in SM Davao mall. Electricity? Lucky if you make one full day without a brown out. When I'm there, I ride in sweltering heat with a .45 loaded on the dash. Not much different than cruising Compton USA, top down in the summer, wearing the wrong color shirt.



I asked for a "positive attributes" list for Obama, didn't I?

But you "wouldn't want to"?

Understandable.

There are none.


Understandable that you missed the point... again. If I was going to make [another] list, I would do it using positive attributes, something you didn't qualify doing with McCain. And to be perfectly straight with you I've posted Obama's resume and attributes on several occasions and it compared very favorable to McCain, but you were probably to busy dodging facts to remember. ;)

Did you think the Comic cover of the New Yorker by Billy B, was funny the other day too?

Certainly did. I would also find the humorod a cartoon of McCain in a wheel chair with his wife administering perscription drugs to him ;with a picture of VP Cheney on the wall and a Constitution in the fireplace. Why ? Because that would clearly be a satire on what the libs think of him .

Perhaps the New Yorker Mag. Did not make it clear enough for the thin skinned Obama and his supporters .Perhaps if they had Rush Limbaugh drawing it ,it would've been clearer??


well being a single mother, I made sure my children had choices.

Bingo ;you did not depend on the institution to do your job. I congratulate you and your daughter's success .


Oh yeah and by the way what children come out of the system illiterate and poor untrained? Come on

Stopping Adult Illiteracy at the Source (http://ednews.org/articles/25685/1/Stopping-Adult-Illiteracy-at-the-Source/Page1.html)


In 2003, the National Assessment of Adult Literacy from the U. S. Department of Education indicated that as many as 5 percent of adults over the age of 16 were non-literate in English (that's 11 million adults), 14 percent (30 million) were below basic in literacy, and another 29 percent (63 million) possessed only basic literacy skills.


Illiteracy Statistics (http://www.audiblox2000.com/learning_disabilities/illiteracy.htm)



Reading levels of young Americans fell so low in the 1970s that the Army was forced to rewrite its operating manuals in comic fashion.10 Much reading material previously used for years in American schools became incomprehensible to present-day students and had to be simplified. For example, when a well-known history book was revised with an eye toward the high school market, words like “spectacle” and “admired” were removed. Apparently they were too difficult.11
On 26 April 1983, pointing to the literacy crisis and to the collapse in standards at the secondary and the college levels, the National Commission on Excellence warned: “Our nation is at risk.” The report warned that America would soon be engulfed by a “rising tide of mediocrity in elementary and secondary school.”12
Since the Nation at Risk report, education reforms have taken place in every state. New teaching methods and programs have been tried and evaluated. But the overall goal set for the year 2000 — to educate every child to a high standard — has remained a mere dream. “The nation is at even greater risk now,” voiced Senator Edward M. Kennedy a decade after the famous report was published.13 A newspaper reported in 1997 that the standards of education are so low in the U.S. that black Americans are returning to Africa, specifically Kenya, to get better schooling.14 And if the article, published in The Atlanta Journal and Constitution in October 1999, part of which appears below, is only partially representative of conditions in the United States, it should cause great alarm:
In the aftermath of the Atlanta Public School's announcement that more than half the city's third-graders may flunk come spring, administrators, teachers and parents are grappling with questions about why the scores were so low and what can be done to improve them. Superintendent Beverly Hall last week revealed the stunning results of the Scholastic Reading Inventory, a criterion-referenced test that gauges a child's reading skills against what is expected for a child in that grade. Seventy-three percent of second-graders, 55 percent of third-graders, 57 percent of fourth graders and 49 percent of fifth-graders are not reading on grade level, according to the test.15


The sad truth is that a study by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development shows 59% of American high school graduates between the ages of 16 and 25 are functionally illiterate, incapable of coping “adequately” with the complex demands of everyday life.
Second languages are great ,but our schools have to get their priorities straight and make sure that graduating students have enough basic skills to be productive members of society.

The New Yorker cover is funny. And it is well known I am an Obama Supporter. Even Obama himself said on Larry King that it is just a cartoon and we have bigger things to worry about then a cartoon. Although if I were McCain and the Republicans I'd be worried about how Obama raised 52 million last month when he is supposed to be losing support. :D

Yea, I still dont think he`s a good guy. How does that address name calling on this site.:confused:

Let's see, NK, since you were addressing progunr's quote which was about "the OVERALL substance and tone of their posts" it seemed appropriate for you to be reminded of the overall substance and tone of your own posts.

Feel free to check my other 5740 posts since 2004 as well. :)

spitvenom ;
The last I saw Obama had not released June fundraising numbers yet. Do you have an updated source ?

Obama's Money Advantage Not Such an Advantage Anymore -- Daily Intel -- New York News Blog -- New York Magazine (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/07/obamas_money_advanatge_not_suc.html)


The WSJ reported $30 million and called it "underwhelming "... of course ;McCain raised $23 Million and called it a good month.
I go on the theory that fundraising in itself is not an indicator . Ron Paul raised much more than any other Republican in the primaries;and Howard Dean was way ahead in fundraising in the 2004 primaries before he crashed .

Edit:
Never mind... just found the link in today's news
Obama raised $52 million in June - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080717/pl_nm/usa_politics_obama_money_dc_4)

Tom,
You have to admit that raising $52 million dollars in one month is impressive especially when the average donation was only $68.00!!

No doubt.

This is what is happening . Obama is raising a lot of personal $$$$$ while the DNC is being ignored by the faithful.

On the GOP side we "accept " McCain as our candidate but have not really rallied to him. However ;the GOP has raised plenty of cash that they can make available to him ,and probably will.

Democrats on the other hand have been complaining that BO is not sharing the wealth.
Hill Democrats miffed at Obama - John Bresnahan - Politico.com (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11750.html)

I do not know the math involved because Obama has declined public financing so theoretically he is not limited in what he can legally spend on the campaign.

McCain will be restricted... good ! He is 'hoist by his own petard'. He is chiefly responsible for the unconstitutional campaign finance laws. Let him deal with them !

Let me correct myself, I meant the older republicans are a dying breed, the only reason I say this is because they don't listen to the issues, they just vote Republican because that is there party... They vote for the Party, which I am not saying is wrong, but you have to remember who is at the helm... And I know a lot of elderly Republicans, and you can't even mention Obama to them.. I sure know I don't get on the subject with My Dad. He blows a nutty. So yeah he is in your corner..

I don't know about you, or anyone else, but I always believed that older people have wisdom, that younger people could never achieve.

If MOST of the older people are opposed to Obama, doesn't that tell you something?

It seems pretty obvious to me.