I've been married 20 years. We have 3 children, 15, 14, & 8. I was going to leave him 8 years ago, figure the math... but I LOVE my little guy!

My husband lost his job 4 years ago and we agreed it was better for him to stay home w/our littlest... I had a very good paying job.

I lost my job last January and I have not been able to find work 1 year later. I tried to prepare as I knew my job was ending despite my longevity of 20 years w/co. so I curbed spending and PAID OFF DEBT for the past two years. Now we are DEBT FREE, house is paid off, no car loans.. however MY HUSBAND WILL NOT FIND A JOB!! I have taken menial jobs and we're spending every dollar I had saved... we may have to dip in to 401K... I am back in school trying to finish my undergrad. Degree hoping that it will give me a boost in finding another job... I should be done in Dec w JUST AN AA! But I'm determined to do it..

I went to a lawyer to explain the situation that my husband REFUSES to look for work. He is still in Mr. Mom mode despite my being home and BEGGING, PLEADING showing him the finances and how we'll be living on credit soon! And still he refuses to look.. my kids know what's going on since I would get very upset.. I ALWAYS worked and for some reason, a job is not coming to me despite my efforts...

I loved my husband and still do however this is too much on me.. he doesn't drive so can't take the kids to their "appointments".. he does cook and laundry (cleaning & fixing up the house are MINIMAL.. )..

Anyway, the lawyer.. I went thinking I could serve him and maybe IGNITE some urgency and the lawyer explained that in NY there are four reasons for a divorce (unless mutually agreed which my husband REFUSES despite my many many requests.. ) they are:
Abandonment - which I won't do since I paid for the home, Adultery (He's a recluse so never leaves), No sex for a year (since he's moved downstairs two years ago and stays in the guest room, we're moving up on time almost 3 months.. ) or mental abuse (he's mentally abusing me but I can't prove it and I get so frustrated w/his lack of looking for work I was abusive to him which I have now stopped (spiritual help, etc. so that I don't lose everything)..

Here's the thing he's a NICE guy, everyone likes him its JUST THIS PROBLEM and he doesn't go on vacations w/us,s topped that a few years ago.. rarely goes to kids activities, I BEG him to go..

I want to MOVE on.. and I'm trying in spite of his behaviors but I also want a companion who is interested in doing things and NOT watching the B. HIll billys every night!

HOW CAN I GET AROUND THIS?? (Oh, yes after my family's insistence, I did take away the credit cards and access to money.. (not sure how he's paying for his weekly beer delivery though.).

PLEASE if anyone has a solution to how I can get him to MOVE ON.. either a job or OUT, please please please share... Its very difficult..

How I can get him to MOVE ON.. either a job or OUT---ultimatum

My way or the highway

BUT remember the grass isn't always greener

IN fact all I ever find are dead weeds!

Obviously, he thinks being a stay at home dad, is more important than helping you pay bills. Since everything is paid for, then you need a budget adjustment, to live within your means. What you have described is what men have been dealing with for a long time, and I think unless you leave, he ain't going nowhere, and why should he?

Interesting, yes, that's exactly what the lawyer said to me! I worked so hard to avoid not being dependent and now when I need it I'm where I always feared I would be where most people are today in this economy...


I really don't want to postpone my degree.. after this semester I'm only 15 credits away from my goal! But it may have to be for awhile until my family is stable...

Thank you for your answer.

MM

I've been married 20 years. We have 3 children, 15, 14, & 8. I was going to leave him 8 years ago, figure the math...but I LOVE my little guy!!

My husband lost his job 4 years ago and we agreed it was better for him to stay home w/our littlest...I had a very good paying job.

I lost my job last January and i have not been able to find work 1 year later. I tried to prepare as I knew my job was ending despite my longevity of 20 years w/co. so I curbed spending and PAID OFF DEBT for the past two years. Now we are DEBT FREE, house is paid off, no car loans..however MY HUSBAND WILL NOT FIND A JOB!!! I have taken menial jobs and we're spending every dollar I had saved...we may have to dip in to 401K...I am back in school trying to finish my undergrad. degree hoping that it will give me a boost in finding another job...I should be done in Dec w JUST AN AA! but I'm determined to do it..

I went to a lawyer to explain the situation that my husband REFUSES to look for work. He is still in Mr. Mom mode despite my being home and BEGGING, PLEADING showing him the finances and how we'll be living on credit soon! And still he refuses to look..my kids know what's going on since I would get very upset..I ALWAYS worked and for some reason, a job is not coming to me despite my efforts...

I loved my husband and still do however this is too much on me..he doesn't drive so can't take the kids to their "appointments".. he does cook and laundry (cleaning & fixing up the house are MINIMAL..)..

Anyway, the lawyer..I went thinking I could serve him and maybe IGNITE some urgency and the lawyer explained that in NY there are four reasons for a divorce (unless mutually agreed which my husband REFUSES despite my many many requests..) they are:
Abandonment - which I won't do since I paid for the home, Adultery (He's a recluse so never leaves), No sex for a year (since he's moved downstairs two years ago and stays in the guest room, we're moving up on time almost 3 months..) or mental abuse (he's mentally abusing me but I can't prove it and I get so frustrated w/his lack of looking for work I was abusive to him which I have now stopped (spiritual help, etc. so that I don't lose everything)..

Here's the thing he's a NICE guy, everyone likes him its JUST THIS PROBLEM and he doesn't go on vacations w/us,s topped that a few years ago..rarely goes to kids activities, I BEG him to go..

I want to MOVE on..and I'm trying in spite of his behaviors but I also want a companion who is interested in doing things and NOT watching the B. HIll billys everynight!

HOW CAN I GET AROUND THIS??? (Oh, yes after my family's insistence, I did take away the credit cards and access to money..(not sure how he's paying for his weekly beer delivery though.).

PLEASE if anyone has a solution to how I can get him to MOVE ON..either a job or OUT, please please please share...Its very difficult..
I feel for you. I'm in a similar situation and I want out. I'm stuck though. He works and I can't find a job. Four kids and he's very abusive. I have no money and nowhere to go. I'm so sorry that we have to go through so much to have a little happiness.

If kids nowadays only realized this is where it ends up when they HAVE to have the abusive guy with red flags.

I wrote this and I think it sums it up pretty much

Why she stays (the progression)

She stays because he is so loving when he wants to be

She stays as she blocks out the memories of his rages hoping someday he will be who he once was

She stays as she goes about her daily routine trying to maintain some level and sense of a normal façade

She stays because she was taught 'for better or for worse' even if it means enduring the abuse

She stays hoping the next dark moment won't happen for sometime long from now as she tries to hold her family together on her own

She stays because he has beaten her independence, individuality and self esteem down to non existent

She stays because he controls her mind, her freedom, her life, the money, the car

She stays because he has convinced her she deserves the beatings; that she only needs to try harder to please him

She stays because she holds on to the blame as hers and hers alone

She stays because she is isolated and he is all she has left

She stays because she fears the unfamilar more than what she has learned for survival

She stays because she doesn't want to drag her kids down an endless trail of uncertainty

She stays because it seems easier dealing with the pain than to leave with a sense of shame

She stays because to leave and start all over doesn't seem like a viable option

She knows if she kicks him out he is psychotic enough to ignore the PFA the present threats are scary enough, but she has learned to cope and keeps false hope she stays because she fears of losing all she has struggled for

These are not her excuses; this is her reality

I realize not all these steps are applicable to all BUT..

gtjmichael writes: "the lawyer..I went thinking I could serve him and maybe IGNITE some urgency and the lawyer explained that in NY there are four reasons for a divorce (unless mutually agreed which my husband REFUSES despite my many many requests..)"
Surely, in a big, progressive state like NY there are other grounds for divorce; what about the 'no fault' or irretrievably broken' ground?

Surely, in a big, progressive state like NY there are other grounds for divorce; what about the 'no fault' or irretrievably broken' ground?
I think no fault is both parties agreeing
Irretrievably broken I think she has to have some issues that follow the irretrievably broken guidelines.

I think no fault is both parties agreeing
irretrievably broken I think she has to have some issues that follow the irretrievably broken guidelines.
No, couldn't be, not in a big, progressive, Hillary state. Irretrivably broken means one party, only, saying there's no hope for reconciliation. She - Hillary - would never have consented to be a big-shot, U.S. senator in a state where a woman had to have her husband's consent to obtaining a divorce in a court of law. That would be like going back in time before the pill and pant suits. I'm going to try to get JudyKaytee on this.

Unfortunately, NY State law states the four reasons I described. Abandonment, abuse, no sex for a year (which HOW are you supposed to prove that?. ) adultry...

No irr. Differences... UNLESS he mutually agrees, which he won't, why should he? He knows I'll do whatever I have to do for my kids... I agree that its antiquated and for me EXTREMELY frustrating to sit in a lawyers office and explain that my husband REFUSES to look for work and I HAVE NO RECOURSE. The lawyer suggested we move out of state, get the divorce and then come back since NY Law would rule in my keeping most of my 401 K...

PLEASE, PLEASE let me know if there are ANY loopholes that I could explore aside from packing up my kids and leaving him in a house that he can't pay the electric on.

Thank you!

No, couldn't be, not in a big, progressive, Hillary state. That would be like going back in time before the pill and pant suits.

hmmm Hillary=the pill in the pantsuit? :D

If he doesn't drive, then how can he realistically find a job? Aside from that, have you considered the possibility that he's suffering from depression and may need treatment? His disinterest in most things suggests that's a possibility.

gtjmichael writes: "the lawyer..I went thinking I could serve him and maybe IGNITE some urgency and the lawyer explained that in NY there are four reasons for a divorce (unless mutually agreed which my husband REFUSES despite my many many requests..)"
Surely, in a big, progressive state like NY there are other grounds for divorce; what about the 'no fault' or irretrievably broken' ground?


Well, "we're" not all that progressive - NYS just recently stopped stoning adulterers .

The grounds are cruel and inhuman (which is the #1 category, covers a multitude of problems), abandonment, imprisonment, living under the terms of a written and filed separation agreement for 1 year, adultery. The Judiciary has been attempting to get irreconciable differences in there for a very long time, has come close, so far no change. People still file on grounds of adultery but the Court very often changes it to cruel and inhuman. It's a common misconception that the at-fault party somehow has to pay more in spousal support because they caused the split but that's not true.

The "no sex, no job" thinking is part of the cruel and inhuman category - cruel and inhuman takes many forms.

The irreconciable differences category is often confused because it CAN be part of the wording in the SEPARATION AGREEMENT - "due to certain irreconciable differences between the parties they can no longer reside as husband and wife" - but that Separation Agreement becomes the grounds for divorce, not the "irreconciable differences" part.

I disagree with everyone about a divorce, as men have faced providing for a family, where the wife doesn't work for decades, and have not sought divorce on those grounds. No sex is an indication something else is wrong, in another area, and seeing how they have both been through a trauma with their jobs, time and adjustments, have to be made. Cianci is right, the husband may need some help, and shouldn't that be part of the equation, to get to the root of the problem? Sorry gtj, you have to many options, to think divorce is your answer, at this time unless there are other factors to consider. But it is your choice if school is your priority. Where would we be, if we all divorced our stay at home mate, for no sex, and no hot meal??

I disagree with everyone about a divorce, as men have faced providing for a family, where the wife doesn't work for decades, and have not sought divorce on those grounds. No sex is an indication something else is wrong, in another area, and seeing how they have both been thru a trauma with their jobs, time and adjustments, have to be made. Cianci is right, the husband may need some help, and shouldn't that be part of the equation, to get to the root of the problem? Sorry gtj, you have to many options, to think divorce is your answer, at this time unless there are other factors to consider. But it is your choice if school is your priority. Where would we be, if we all divorced our stay at home mate, for no sex, and no hot meal???


I didn't push her to get a divorce - I answered her legal question to the best of my ability. In fact, I'm one of the anti-divorce people on the thread. And, yes, I was divorced and single for a number of years before I met my husband so I've been there.

If she had asked me for personal advice - I find her statement that she did love him and does love him (or words to that effect) to define the situation. Is this the only way the OP sees to push her husband into getting some help, talking to someone - maybe. She won't be the first or the last to resort to the divorce threat - and sometimes, if the other party is truly depressed or for whatever reason unable to get off dead center, the threat becomes a reality and everyone regrets it later.

It's a big World out there, not easy with 3 kids (I believe there are 3). I think it's pretty amazing to love someone who loves you back - and the OP may never, ever find that again.

I agree - get both of them into counselling but if she has tried and he won't go, well, you can't make someone quit smoking, love you... or go to counselling. No wonder there's no sex - I think they are both angry with each other.

I think the OP is emotionally exhausted, carrying the entire marriage on her back, worried, somewhat confused, looking for a solution. I don't think she wants to end the marriage; I think she wants her husband to shape up.

I also think there's a big difference between one party staying home and the other party working; this is different - she has asked him to find a job and help her financially and he has refused to do so.

Don't expect anyone to agree with me but that's how I see it. Too bad the OP didn't ask me for other than my legal thoughts on the subject.

I understand, but this isn't the first time I have jumped in with my big mouth, and it wasn't personal to others opinion. Sorry folks.

I understand, but this isn't the first time I have jumped in with my big mouth, and it wasn't personal to others opinion. Sorry folks.


I didn't have a problem and I'm never sure where the "legal advice" ends and the "personal advice" begins - and the differences are what makes things interesting.

What does he do while you are getting your degree, looking for work and driving the kids to their appointments? Take it away. No more TV, just have it carted off to another place. Lock him out of the computer. Box up and take away all books and magazines. When you find beer in the fridge, take it away. He knows what you want, so you need not say a word. You drive, he is at your mercy. Turn off the heat when you leave the house and take the thermostat with you if the kids are away. He does not earn his comforts, he hides behind your firm control of the situation. Get firmer. He is a recluse, invite people over and have them interrupt his ruminating. He needs 'encouragement' to get off his butt, give him plenty. Well, that's what I would do.

I agree with s_cianci have you thought of the possibility that your husband is suffering from depression. His not wanting to join in as a family member, not looking for a job, not caring about the house, drinking and watching TV sounds like his escape mechanism. Can you get him to talk to his doctor about his state of mind, 4 years is a long time to go without wanting to be involved in the outside world.

What ever you do, please don't give up on your degree, stick at it, you need something to keep your mind focused on something other than your families current situation, there will be light at the end of the tunnel (Dec, is only 10 months away), and a new beginning.

What does he do while you are getting your degree, looking for work and driving the kids to their appointments? Take it away. No more TV, just have it carted off to another place. Lock him out of the computer. Box up and take away all books and magazines. When you find beer in the fridge, take it away. He knows what you want, so you need not say a word. You drive, he is at your mercy. Turn off the heat when you leave the house and take the thermostat with you if the kids are away. He does not earn his comforts, he hides behind your firm control of the situation. Get firmer. He is a recluse, invite people over and have them interrupt his ruminating. He needs 'encouragement' to get off his butt, give him plenty. Well, that's what i would do.


Well, if the OP wants a divorce and is going to take this advice she is absolutely and positively handing her husband grounds for that divorce and possibly risking losing custody of her children if he decides to fight for them - I believe this behavior could be considered bizarre and possibly dangerous (the Court could question what happens when she gets angry with the children) - wait for either one of them to testify that she turns down the heat and takes the thermostat with her when she leaves the house.

This is a marriage, a partnership (in theory) - I don't see how any of this will help the situation and it could only make it worse. I don't think the OP wants to "teach" another child - she wants her husband back. If the husband already feels useless this could be devastating.

It makes me sad to think that a party to a fairly long marriage who I think obviously has some problems here would be treated in this fashion. I would hope no matter what would happen that my husband would show more kindness toward me.

I have seen so many divorces where this type of behavior sets the tone for the rest of people's lives. Whatever happened to saying, "This is what I need, want, expect from you and if you can't be what I need, want, expect, then we have to part"?

So far you have done what you are suppose to do, now it is HIS turn to get back to bringing home the bacon. I can't stand to stay at home let alone not looking for a job. (I always hear my mom tell my dad "If you quit your job I'm divorcing yo butt and he gets dressed and goes to work. Playing or not they act the situation out.) Im only 27 and I hope that he finds a job for your family. Tell him to get into heating and cooling very HIGH demand for skilled workers.

If you get him to leave who is going to take care of your kids for you? A Nanny? 15, 14 and 8. Who can afford a nanny these days? The teenagers can essentially fend for themselves while you continue to go to school, but the 8 year old cannot. Who is going to supervise him? The Easter Bunny?

Your husband had a job - how did he get to work everyday? A skateboard? What is his excuse for not going and getting a driver's license?

This is just my opinion on the situation. You have essentially domineered him into this present situation and he's happily making the best of it living in the basement swilling his beer.

Why don't you sell the house and move without him? Give him his share of whatever that he is entitled to and tell him to get on down the road.

You seem too obsessed to continue with college thinking that's going to help you get another job. There aren't that many jobs out there as you probably know. The economy is tanking right now and probably won't get any better.

Right now you have a no win situation of essentially your own making.

Domineered him into this situation is a very strong statement...

My husband never drove, he grew up in Manh. We moved to LI and he commuted by train to the city... he can do that again however here are his excuses:

1) He can't see - he has partial vision in one eye -
2) He's too old
3) He'll never make enough money so why should he
4) If he goes to work, I won't get a job
5) who will take care of the kids

At the time he was laid off, I did ask him to go to work and he decided to stay home and I agreed (for a period!) Yes I know the economy is tanking and I also know that my days of making a high salary are nill which is why he needs to make a salary to offset mine. We do NOT live high which is why we've survived as long as we have.. I'm applying for minimal jobs that are positions that I had 20 years ago so I'm back at the bottom of the ladder and prepared to climb once again.

You're right about him taking care of the 8 year old but I think its time the older boys are going to have to help since my husband and I will both be working and you're right we cannot afford $300.0 a week to pay a nanny.. OR if we do split up, they'll have to help there too.

I was hoping for some legal position which could "force" him in to at least LOOK for a job!

As far as my college goes, most people that say "you don't need a degree" are usually the people that have one! Its very difficult to get a decent job without a degree despite my executive status and years of experience. I see getting a degree one step toward changing my future for me and my children.

This is an extremely frustrating position which I guess after reading everyone's responses I'll have to endure for a while longer.. I know there are far more worst situations occurring... I just think its amazing that the state will now allow me any recourse othe than continuing to support him or leave everything behind.

Thank you for your comments.

[QUOTE=gtjmichael]Domineered him into this situation is a very strong statement...

My husband never drove, he grew up in Manh. We moved to LI and he commuted by train to the city... he can do that again however here are his excuses:

1) He can't see - he has partial vision in one eye -
2) He's too old
3) He'll never make enough money so why should he
4) If he goes to work, I won't get a job
5) who will take care of the kids

At the time he was laid off, I did ask him to go to work and he decided to stay home and I agreed (for a period!) Yes I know the economy is tanking and I also know that my days of making a high salary are nill which is why he needs to make a salary to offset mine. We do NOT live high which is why we've survived as long as we have.. I'm applying for minimal jobs that are positions that I had 20 years ago so I'm back at the bottom of the ladder and prepared to climb once again.

You're right about him taking care of the 8 year old but I think its time the older boys are going to have to help since my husband and I will both be working and you're right we cannot afford $300.0 a week to pay a nanny.. OR if we do split up, they'll have to help there too.

I was hoping for some legal position which could "force" him in to at least LOOK for a job!

as far as my college goes, most people that say "you don't need a degree" are usually the people that have one! Its very difficult to get a decent job without a degree despite my executive status and years of experience. I see getting a degree one step toward changing my future for me and my children.

This is an extremely frustrating position which I guess after reading everyone's responses I'll have to endure for a while longer.. I know there are far more worst situations occurring... I just think its amazing that the state will now allow me any recourse othe than continuing to support him or leave everything behind.


Unfortunately, short of suing for divorce and having him ordered to pay maintenance and child support I can't think of anything. You are also "stuck" because he hasn't worked in some time with your consent - and I know the reasons for your consent, I'm just telling you how the Court will look at it.

His reasons for not working pretty much take the "is he depressed" question out of the equation!

Usually, I agree with twinkledooter 100%. Not this time.

I have a long-time friend who worked three minimum wage jobs (two full-time and one part-time) to pay the rent and buy food while her boyfriend sat on the couch and watched TV. He had lost his job and simply could not accept minimum wage. His 'reasons' for not working were exactly the same as your husbands. Except, he didn't say he was too old. He was 20 at the time.

A marriage requires two adults contributing to the work. A marriage with children takes two adults. Your husband is behaving like a little boy. You are behaving like the only adult. Twinkledooter described your situation as one of essentially your own making. You do not tie your husband to his favorite chair to watch TV, and refuse to look for work while you do what you do. But, if his favorite chair is at the cleaners (or simply soaking wet) and the TV and beer missing, you will have his complete attention.

You still love him. But he is behaving like a little boy. Take away his toys and privileges until he shows you and the partnership the respect it deserves. Debt-free, the house paid off? Way to go girl! From looking over the above posts, it doesn't look very hopeful in the divorce department. You need his help and companionship. Get them.

I feel your pain. I'm going through much the same thing. I'm fortunate enough to be working, but I don't want to support him.

Now, for you, see a therapist yourself. There must be a free one you can see. I don't think there are any answers, but you know if you continue to stay married, he will probably never work. Seek another attorney or mediator. Why should your live remain stagnate? The longer you stay married, the harder it will be to get out. It will be hard to leave and be on your own, but essentially you are on your own now.

I've seen both men and women use the depression excuse or diagnosis as a rationale for not changing. I've been depressed, I know it feels horrible. I still have bouts of depression. Nothing works except getting out of your rut - getting exercise, working, moving on with your life. You are not going to be able to help your husband - he doesn't really want help. Well, maybe you'll be able to help. Maybe you'll be luckier than me, I've tried to help for 6 years. Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

Keep looking for help. I think you will find the answer.

Working4Ever - Your post is well timed. I have finally confronted him and asked him for a legal separation and we have an apptmnt on Thurs. I've explained that it provides me a sense of proceeding forward in my life and if in a year or two, if we have not made progress toward a better future "together" than he should move on... the separation provides me a legal doc. Stating that he is living downstairs in a "separate" apt, which it is.

Since I told him I do feel like I've made a step from being stagnate and frustrated from being in a situation that I had no recourse.. which is what I have been feeling. His biggest concern is that I'll have him locked up for child support.. which of course is crazy since he doesn't have anything! The mediator believes we can address something in the doc. To relieve his fears..

So, now my next challenge is actually GETTING him in to the mediators office!

This may not be the final solution but at least for now I feel like I have some room to move out from under his oppression and control. The kids won't be affected since he's been living downstairs for over a year so to them all is as usual however for me, I can finally see some light.

One step at a time! I agree I need to see a therapist to help me find why I'm having a difficult time getting a job!

Thanks, again!
MM

You need to redo your resume and stress your positive job skills and attributes and go after jobs that are more in your usual field. I am sure you have gone after jobs that you would be a good fit with. Have more of a positive attitude when you go on job interviews. Leave your negativity on the street outside the job interview. It only takes one good job interview to be hired. You are obviously doing something wrong that you are not getting hired. How would you like to try and get a job where I live being 60 years old (and all the male employers want young eye candy) and a very bad job market with no jobs around at all? I got a job in a different area of industry than I had ever worked in. It only took me 4 months.

If I can do it, you can surely do it as well living in an area with a large population that has lots of jobs to be had. You need to change your attitude about having a difficult time getting a job. Think positive thoughts and banish the negative thoughts and the job will come to you.

working4ever - your post is well timed. I have finally confronted him and asked him for a legal separation and we have an apptmnt on thurs. I've explained that it provides me a sense of proceeding forward in my life and if in a year or two, if we have not made progress toward a better future "together" than he should move on...the separation provides me a legal doc. Stating that he is living downstairs in a "separate" apt, which it is.

Since i told him i do feel like i've made a step from being stagnate and frustrated from being in a situation that i had no recourse..which is what i have been feeling. His biggest concern is that i'll have him locked up for child support..which of course is crazy since he doesn't have anything! The mediator believes we can address something in the doc. To relieve his fears..

So, now my next challenge is actually getting him in to the mediators office!

This may not be the final solution but at least for now i feel like i have some room to move out from under his oppression and control. The kids won't be affected since he's been living downstairs for over a year so to them all is as usual however for me, i can finally see some light.

One step at a time! I agree i need to see a therapist to help me find why i'm having a difficult time getting a job!

Thanks, again!
Mm

Please update what has happened by October 2012. (my guess would be that by now you are divorced from him)