PDA

View Full Version : What is god?


Cho
Jan 5, 2008, 12:08 AM
What is god? There is always this clash between science & god.Can God be a huge amount of energy?

JoeCanada76
Jan 5, 2008, 12:17 AM
Many people describe things differently. Spirit I believe is made up of energy. We all are made up of energy. Could the spirit and energy be the same? It is all possible Cho.

Is that how you think of God?

Cho
Jan 5, 2008, 12:58 AM
Well spirit can't be destroyed.Likewise energy can also be not destroyed.

JoeCanada76
Jan 5, 2008, 01:32 AM
It makes sense then that everything is made up of energy and energy can only be changed, right.

simoneaugie
Jan 5, 2008, 02:50 AM
There is a clash between science and many religions. The religious group feels that the definition of God that they go by is the only way God can be. There can not really be a clash between science and God because God is science. God is everything, energy is everything. Why all the fighting?

Cho
Jan 6, 2008, 07:06 AM
I think science is too young to explain God.But eventually it will someday.

gallivant_fellow
Jan 11, 2008, 07:41 PM
A science called psychology has explained the idea of a personal god.

Cho
Jan 14, 2008, 10:25 AM
A science called psychology has explained the idea of a personal god.

Can you elaborate?:)

workerbee
Jan 21, 2008, 09:20 AM
Cho, there is no God. God is made up like all of the pagan gods before this one. We know prayer does not work. The AMA decided to answer this question once and for all. They found prayer does not work! The study was huge 1800 people, 2.4 million over 3 years. As far as the figthing goes, religion interfers with medical research, euthanasia, birth control, etc you can understand why there is so much fighting going on.

workerbee

Cho
Jan 21, 2008, 09:23 AM
Of course there is god whether a huge amt of energy or not.How else do u explain the mystries of nature.

NeedKarma
Jan 21, 2008, 09:26 AM
Ofcourse there is god whether a huge amt of energy or not.How else do u explain the mystries of nature.What mysteries of nature?

Cho
Jan 21, 2008, 09:31 AM
How do u explain placebo effect?

NeedKarma
Jan 21, 2008, 09:31 AM
You mean as in medical trials?

kennith_morden
Jan 21, 2008, 09:33 AM
Prayer does work GOD does exist GOD is still in our schools even if he is not recognized by some people and that is very few people,there should be no fighting about GOD he still rules with most people IN GOD WE TRUST will stand for ever.
I pray to god every day and you can't expect to pray for a million dollars and he gives it to you.You pray to GOD and then you work to earn it.
MY OPINION AND I WILL STICK TO IT BECAUSE I WANT TO MEET MY GOD SOMEDAY.
AND REUNITE WITH MY LOVED ONES.
P.S.
I DO NOT GO TO CHURCH ALL THE TIME BUT I STILL LOVE GOD AND HOPE TO SEE HIM.
KENNITH

workerbee
Jan 21, 2008, 04:43 PM
Cho, you sound very young. Placebo effect is hardly a mystery, just the power of suggestion that is all. You can believe in any God you make up, it does not matter to me,
Just trying to help you out. As far as prayer goes it does not work at all. Kennith's explanation of it is typical of close minded Christians. The study concluded that prayer does not work helping people with pain and healing, not a million dollars. It is worthless. Try praying to someone who has an amputated limb see the result. Failure will be the result. Christians have excuses when they fail, I offer research to back up what I say

workerbee

CMM_Kaleido
Jan 22, 2008, 10:30 PM
Cho, there is no God. God is made up like all of the pagan gods before this one. We know prayer does not work. the AMA decided to answer this question once and for all. They found prayer does not work! The study was huge 1800 people, 2.4 million over 3 years. As far as the figthing goes, religion interfers with medical research, euthanasia, birth control, etc you can understand why there is so much fighting going on.

workerbee

These are off Cho's original topic but--

That seems harsh. Just because humanity may practice religion imperfectly (as we do so many things) it doesn't mean there isn't a God.

I am not familiar with the AMA's study of prayer, but I am not sure prayer results are quantifiable. We do not always understand the difference between wants and needs, no matter how obvious a need may seem to us humans. J.R.R. Tolkien may have been a fiction writer but I truly believe ". . . even the very wisest cannot foresee all ends."

workerbee
Jan 23, 2008, 07:55 AM
It is the American heart journal April 2006 was published and how people practice religion is hardly the point. Cho's question is what is God? My answer is that God is made up like the thousands of pagan gods before. Jesus is a great example. He never preformed miracles of any kind. As I wrote in another thread there are several virgin births recorded and these people went on to raise the dead, turn water into wine, all before Jesus, but the were mortals just like Jesus. They are myths nothing more. We need to make up a God so we won't feel so small and insignificant. There is lots of evidence to support what I say

workerbee

CMM_Kaleido
Jan 23, 2008, 02:19 PM
Thank you for the details on the journal article. Here's a link if anyone else is interested in checking it out Elsevier (http://journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/ymhj). Once there do a search for 'prayer.'

There are actually a couple of interesting articles there. I am not sure this is the answer "once and for all" though. An MD from Boston responded to the article with a letter to the editor that stated, "In conclusion, although this study overcomes some of the statistical hurdles that encumbered prior studies on prayer and medicine, the failure of the authors to rigorously control their independent variables invalidates their comparison of this with prior studies and so does little to advance our understanding of the medical application of intercessory prayer." (Eric J. Burks, Am Heart J 2006; 152:e41-e42)


In my experience there is no way to talk people into believing in God or to talk them out of it (maybe belief is just one of those mysteries of the universe). Particularly since you can't lump everyone into the same pattern, i.e. all Christians do not believe the same things nor do all atheists. We all believe our own version. For example,


We need to make up a God so we won't feel so small and insignificant.

workerbee

I think we need to believe there is no God so that we won't feel so small and insignificant.

NeedKarma
Jan 23, 2008, 02:25 PM
Why is this question in Science > Astronomy?

Capuchin
Jan 23, 2008, 02:35 PM
Why is this question in Science > Astronomy?

I think the OP wishes to identify god as some kind of celestial body/energy/something.

workerbee
Jan 23, 2008, 03:43 PM
I already read that CMM. I think that you know that prayer does not work, everyone does but they are afraid to admit it. Example: 1 out of 10 females survive brain cancer. If these females all prayer one will survive. People will say it is a miracle, she will go on T.V and so on but the other 9 you don't hear from because they are dead. People ignore that part.
The person that survives is because medical treatment nothing more. The belief God may help relieve stress or depression but that is all. I just saw a TV show on PBS only caught the last few minutes of it. It was on religion, there was a priest a few college professors, etc. Someone in the audience asked "Does prayer work" a professor answered much the same as I did where God helps with relieving of stress, depresion but NOT with the medical problem.Here is the amazing part, the priest nodded in agreement. He was agreeing that prayer only does that. The new study was made to overcome flaws in earlier studies that had vague results.




I think we need to believe there is no God so that we won't feel so small and insignificant.
Good point
workerbee

kennith_morden
Jan 23, 2008, 09:24 PM
THE TOP TEN PREDICTIONS FOR 2008
>
> 1. The Bible will still have all the answers.
> 2. Prayer will still work.
> 3. The Holy Spirit will still move.
> 4. God will still inhabit the praises of His people.
> 5. There will still be God-anointed preaching.
> 6. There will still be singing of praise to God.
> 7. God will still pour out blessings upon His people.
> 8. There will still be room at the Cross.
> 9. Jesus will still love you.
> 10. Jesus will still save the lost.
>
> God whispers in your soul and speaks to your mind. Sometimes when you
> don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick at you.
>

inthebox
Jan 24, 2008, 12:26 AM
It is the American heart journal april 2006 was published and how people practice religion is hardly the point. Cho's question is what is God? my answer is that God is made up like the thousands of pagan gods before. jesus is a great example. He never preformed miracles of any kind. As i wrote in another thread there are several virgin births recorded and these people went on to raise the dead, turn water into wine, all before Jesus, but the were mortals just like Jesus. They are myths nothing more. We need to make up a God so we won't feel so small and insignificant. There is lots of evidence to support what i say

workerbee



http://cbfinch.googlepages.com/PrayerStudy.pdf

regarding the JAMA article P 941

"our findings are not consistent with prior studies SHOWING THAT INTERCESSORY PRAYERS HAD A BENEFICIAL EFFECT ON THE OUTCOMES IN CARDIAC PATIENTS."

They referenced those studies if you want to quote them.


Scientifically speaking the study you mention is clearly not settled science.
It only applies to this specific situation, this particular trial. How about for depression or pregnancy or pneumonia? So stating that prayer does not help, as a blanket statement is a false statement.

HOw about a study with those who were religious. Divide that group into those allowed to pray and those not allowed to pray. This, of course would not be posible because that would not be right.

Another problem with the study you mentioned is that they did not control for those who prayed for themselves - see the table on patient characteristics.
Theologically speaking, a direct prayer would probably be more effective than an intercessory one.

Also no one would think that prayer would replace a bypass, it is meant as a complimentary treatment.



As to the OP's question

Science is the testing of observed phenomenon. It is impartial.
Science does not explain why we are here, what our purpose or meaning is.

To the religious, God does, God is so much more than just science.

One can appreciate DNA - its complexity, its ability to hold information. That is fact.
There is no scientific evidence how this originated by random chance. Evolutionists may theorize or hypothesize, those who believe say its from God. Same fact different points of view.

workerbee
Jan 24, 2008, 07:38 AM
That's the point is it not. Prayer should work to replace a bypass but does not. Or sure it will help people who believe that God exists with depression and there emotinal outlook but not with the actual problem Let me give another example of how worthless prayer is. Mother Terasa, died frustrated. Know why because God was silent when she prayed. He did not answer her. This was mentioned in her letters. No one was hepled that she prayed for. She was writing these letters to her priest friend for 50 years. What happens is that some people (Christians)get into a make believe worldscared to death of admitting what I know. Never underestimate the power of Denial.
Kinnith, I don't mean to insult you but you sound like a child. You believe in your delusion, does not matter to me

workerbee

inthebox
Jan 24, 2008, 09:24 AM
You mis represent.

"prayer should work to replace bypass but does not"


Exactly who made that claim?


Now you admit that faith helps depression, so

Depression as a predictor for coronary heart disea...[Am J Prev Med. 2002] - PubMed Result (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12093424)

Spiritual Well-Being and Depression in Patients with Heart Failure (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1829421)

But even this article in the discussion

"A related concern is that psychological well-being and spiritual well-being are overlapping constructs."

This issues shows that, contrary to what you might claim, science and religion may indeed come together.



As to those that have questions or doubts about their faith, who does not, especially during hard times. Faith does not mean life is going to be easy.
We are taught to seek wisdom, and through trials faith deepens and matures [ Jamees 1 ], or it does not.

Now if Mother Theresa was an evolutionists, would she even question why there is suffering? Would she even try to help - what natural selective advantage is it to her to help the poor?

And yes prayers help but "faith without action is dead" - so she did help those who were suffering.


Is it not the claim by SOME atheists that religious folks are not as smart, don't question, and blindly accept what is taught religious texts?

So lo and behold a person of faith has some doubts and questions.

You have to wonder about someone who DOES NOT ask questions about what they believe.

NeedKarma
Jan 24, 2008, 09:26 AM
Where is the OP to keep this back on track i.e. Science and Astronomy?

workerbee
Jan 24, 2008, 11:15 AM
First off, iagree with NeedKarma, we should not get into this here. I only wanted to answer Cho's question. I just skimmed the links but they seem to say what I say about well being
So what? Here is what I think prayer should do. In the new testament jesus broke laws of nature by raising the dead, and walking on water(which he did not do) people that were blind could see immediately, so I think my view of prayer is correct. You say faith without action is dead. I think you just need action, forget the faith, prayer , they are both
Worthless. I also notice how many Christians alter their views on praying. Now it seems if you have a problem pray to feel better about the problem you have and that's it the problem still stays. I don't understand that thinking. If you want ot continue this you can PM me

workerbee

inthebox
Jan 24, 2008, 04:17 PM
workerbee:

The op mentions God and science. So this is on track.

Is it really legitimate for a stated non-beliver, to make comments on what prayer or faith or action / works play in the role of Christianity?
That is disingenuous.

Christian theology is difficult at times. Study the book of Romans if you must start somewhere. CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" is another good place to start or Oswald Chambers' daily devotionals is another. Oswald Chambers: My Utmost for His Highest (http://www.myutmost.org/)

Also, as I have stated, there is no conflict between God and science, the extremists on both sides would like people to think there is.


Yours truly is a Christian and a health professional. Both God and science are involved in my work.

Cho
Jan 25, 2008, 11:54 PM
This discussion is running of the track.I just wanted to know God scientifically.This discussion finally ended in "Does prayer works or not".I do believe prayer works.What matters is what you are praying 4 & 2 whom you are praying.4 me prayer always worked.Besides everybody seems to be a christian & no 1's thinking beyond that.Jesus is not the only God.He is not the only 1 u can pray 2.

Anyway this was not my topic.I just want 2 know the scientific explanations of God.Or will science ever be able 2 explain God?

Birabhadra Mahakud
Jan 26, 2008, 01:04 AM
Physics is just a part of the Metaphysics.Physics cannot describe the whole of metaphysics. By examining Special Theory of relativity one comes to know that infinte energy is required to stop time and exit from this physical world while still existing in its own frame. Furher no maths or physics can describe it--This is the limit of Logic. In the beginning of the universe too, space and time were zero and infinite. My calculations on the relativistic schwarzschild metric shows that it was also like the case mentioned above. I am Damn sure that the BigBang required infinte amount of energy, which is beyond the human capability and reasoning. INFINITY is the only attribute of GOD.

Capuchin
Jan 26, 2008, 04:46 AM
Physics is just a part of the Metaphysics.Physics cannot describe the whole of metaphysics. By examining Special Theory of relativity one comes to know that infinte energy is required to stop time and exit from this physical world while still existing in its own frame. Furher no maths or physics can describe it--This is the limit of Logic. In the beginning of the universe too, space and time were zero and infinite. My calculations on the relativistic schwarzschild metric shows that it was also like the case mentioned above. I am Damn sure that the BigBang required infinte amount of energy, which is beyond the human capability and reasoning. INFINITY is the only attribute of GOD.

Where did this infinite energy all go?

workerbee
Jan 26, 2008, 08:47 AM
Inthebox, just so you know I was a Christain for many years which is the reason I am not now.

Cho, I answered your question by explaining that there is no God, except the ones we make. For you to say there are many Gods, well that goes against Christianity. Your view on praying is 100% wrong read the study even people who knew they were being prayed for showed NO results, in fact some were worse, leading the researchers to believe performance anixety. In other words you knew you were prayed for, so how come you are not better? Cho, if you believe something that is baseless then you have nothing.
We learn from our research otherwise we would still live in caves. The evidence suggests there is no God, Jesus was just a man.

What happens without evidence, let me tell you. Some believe that God was an alien
Of a starship and created us. I might add there is NO evidence for them to make this claim
But is does sound plausible, so what? Does not make it true. Don't ignore the research

Birabhadra Mahakud, we just don't know enough to make a statement either way.

workerbee

CMM_Kaleido
Jan 26, 2008, 09:54 AM
Workerbee:
People who believe there is a God, whether they are Christian or not are discussing the possibilities of what God is. (You can believe in one God, even the same God, without being Christian. Cho said nothing about many gods he just said he didn't pray to Jesus.)

Why does this discussion seem to bother you so much? I would not presume to tell you how to be an atheist.


Furher no maths or physics can describe it--This is the limit of Logic. In the beginning of the universe too, space and time were zero and infinite. My calculations on the relativistic schwarzschild metric shows that it was also like the case mentioned above. I am Damn sure that the BigBang required infinte amount of energy, which is beyond the human capability and reasoning. INFINITY is the only attribute of GOD.

Mostly over my head but really fascinating. Possibly, at a level in that infinity is there a place where infinite energy and complete understanding (all knowledge, the pattern of absolute perfection) become one? Could that be God (or a heaven of sorts?)

kennith_morden
Jan 26, 2008, 10:38 AM
All I can say is will pray to god and I will go see all of the ones that went before me.
Every one has a opinoin to me my opinion is the right one.
I pray to my god which in my eyes is the only god.

workerbee
Jan 26, 2008, 10:50 AM
CMM_Kaliedo, honestly it does not bother me and I am not telling anyone what to believe
I just tried to answer a question. Whenever religion comes into a question things just explode soimetimes getting off topic. Now you know why some forums never talk about god

workerbee

Cho
Jan 30, 2008, 06:42 AM
Cho, i answered your question by explaining that there is no God, except the ones we make. For you to say there are many Gods, well that goes against Christianity. Your view on praying is 100% wrong read the study even people who knew they were being prayed for showed NO results, in fact some were worse, leading the researchers to believe performance anixety. In other words you knew you were prayed for, so how come you are not better? Cho, if you believe something that is baseless then you have nothing.
We learn from our research otherwise we would still live in caves. the evidence suggests there is no God, Jesus was just a man.

What happens without evidence, let me tell you. Some believe that God was an alien
of a starship and created us. I might add there is NO evidence for them to make this claim
but is does sound plausible, so what? does not make it true. Don't ignore the research



How can u say there is no God.Then where did this concept of God come from? I do believe Jesus was a man.A man who came to lead us to God but failed.
Science is very young.It is unable to explain everything happening in our very earh.For example let me quote Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia-"The identity of 95% of what constitues the universe is not known and experiments are being conducted"If this is the case how can u site scientific evidences.Know what Einstein used to say, he felt like a child playing at the sea shore when the ocean of knowledge stretched before him.

NeedKarma
Jan 30, 2008, 07:12 AM
How can u say there is no God.He answered your question properly in the Science/Astronomy view. Feel free to repost your question in Religion for the answers you seek.

Cho
Jan 30, 2008, 07:15 AM
He answered your question properly in the Science/Astronomy view. Feel free to repost your question in Religion for the answers you seek.

I do need an answer related to science

inthebox
Jan 30, 2008, 07:22 AM
He answered your question properly in the Science/Astronomy view. Feel free to repost your question in Religion for the answers you seek.


In order for science to say "there is no God" is to assume that science knows everything at his point.

That is false. For example science cannot explain the "big Bang" or the sudden, geologically speaking, appearance of hundreds of species during the Cambrian, or the origins of DNA.


Science is not omniscient, neither is mankind.

NeedKarma
Jan 30, 2008, 07:30 AM
There you go, question answered. :)

workerbee
Jan 30, 2008, 07:59 AM
[I]
How can u say there is no God.Then where did this concept of God come from??I do believe Jesus was a man.A man who came to lead us to God but failed.
Science is very young.It is unable to explain everything happening in our very earh.For example let me quote Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia-"The identity of 95% of what constitues the universe is not known and experiments are being conducted"If this is the case how can u site scientific evidences.Know what Einstein used to say, he felt like a child playing at the sea shore when the ocean of knowledge stretched before him.

I am glad that you think Jesus was just a man, he was some people even think that he never existed because he never left and writings in his own hand, or he was illiterate
Here is a more scientific explanation of how myths get started. First off let me say there are many Gods, from Zeus, to Jupiter, apollo, etc All made up. In ancient Greece Fossils decorated many temples and from these
We get Cyclops, griffin and so on. Finding fossils of some dinosaur heads with lots of teeth
Even a mammoth head. The Mammoth was broken up but looked like a head with one eye
The small dinosaur head never seen before, the Griffin is bornThe fossils were collected and are now in Museum of natural history. It explains a lot. You might see a giant leg bone but not a complete skeleton, with a little imagination the giant gods are born. These stories are handed down going from country to country. That's why there were thousands of ancinet Gods. Not all stories were from fossils but it takes very little for a story to become inflated. Cho, don't just dismiss me when I tell you that God is not real. I think most people have a physcolgical need to believe in God
You might do well to read books by David Mills and others See what they have to say.


Workerbee

Cho
Jan 30, 2008, 08:39 AM
Cho, don't just dismiss me when i tell you that God is not real. I think most people have a physcolgical need to believe in God
You might do well to read books by David Mills and others See what they have to say.


Workerbee
Then why did u say "God made you an athiest".Who are u to question his existence?

workerbee
Jan 30, 2008, 08:46 AM
CHO, My signature IS A JOKE

workerbee

Cho
Jan 30, 2008, 08:53 AM
Here is a more scientific explanation of how myths get started. First off let me say there are many Gods, from Zeus, to Jupiter, apollo, etc All made up. In ancient Greece Fossils decorated many temples and from these
we get Cyclops, griffin and so on. Finding fossils of some dinosaur heads with lots of teeth
even a mammoth head. The Mammoth was broken up but looked like a head with one eye
The small dinosaur head never seen before, the Griffin is bornThe fossils were collected and are now in Museum of natural history.

Workerbee


So if they found a big piece of bone why didn't they mistake it for a rock or something else? Why give a superhuman touch to it?

Capuchin
Jan 30, 2008, 10:52 AM
I think most people have a physcolgical need to believe in God.

I believe this is true, God is simply a method to come to terms with death. Humans find it hard to accept that there will be nothing after death. Everythign else is constructed around this initial seed.

Cho
Jan 30, 2008, 12:54 PM
Humans find it hard to accept that there will be nothing after death.

What is there after death?

NeedKarma
Jan 30, 2008, 12:58 PM
What is there after death??Nothing that can be explained by astronomy I'll tell you that for sure.

Capuchin
Jan 30, 2008, 01:37 PM
What is there after death??
Nothing.

workerbee
Jan 30, 2008, 02:39 PM
Capuchin, that is what I think. Cho I changed my signature just for you. Check it out if you have time It's a great website and might answer your questions in more detail. From there you can get to the forum. There are many sections to it for Atheists, former Christians, Christians even a science section

workerbee

inthebox
Jan 30, 2008, 08:34 PM
So worker bee:

You changed your signature. Because god made me an atheist, though a joke, ironically acknowledges God and absolves you of the choice you make.


Lets see, your type of god would have to prove himself to you with all sorts of miracles and supernatural feats. No choice, no effort to decide. What kind of god is that? One at your beck and call to make your life here on earth better? One that does not give you the free will to love back. No wonder you do not believe. So enjoy your time here - its limited, there is nothing after death, as you say.

1 John 4: 7-21 - in fact the whole epistle.
That is my kind of God. :D

CMM_Kaleido
Jan 30, 2008, 09:00 PM
I believe this is true, God is simply a method to come to terms with death. Humans find it hard to accept that there will be nothing after death. Everythign else is constructed around this initial seed.

You can make the argument that science seeks the same goal. If we can understand and control everything than we can control death and thus no longer need to fear it. Or call it immortality through legacy or being part of something larger than ourselves. Same logic fits both "we need God" or "we need science."

And the same fact applies to both: just because something is constructed by humans does not make it invalid. Science is constructed by humans. Sure you can argue the laws of the universe were in existence before, but we identified them, labeled them--we gave them identities--constructed them. We give them validity by our belief in them.


Back to Cho's original question--Could God be a large amount of energy--does anyone have any comments on Birabhadra Mahakud's response?


Physics is just a part of the Metaphysics.Physics cannot describe the whole of metaphysics. By examining Special Theory of relativity one comes to know that infinte energy is required to stop time and exit from this physical world while still existing in its own frame. Furher no maths or physics can describe it--This is the limit of Logic. In the beginning of the universe too, space and time were zero and infinite. My calculations on the relativistic schwarzschild metric shows that it was also like the case mentioned above. I am Damn sure that the BigBang required infinte amount of energy, which is beyond the human capability and reasoning. INFINITY is the only attribute of GOD.

curiousasheck
Jan 31, 2008, 12:33 AM
God is dog spelled backwords

Capuchin
Jan 31, 2008, 01:06 AM
does anyone have any comments on Birabhadra Mahakud's response?

Yes, It sounds like a lot of hogwash to me. He seems arguing that God only existed at the big bang. Would you agree with that?

You can make the argument that science seeks the same goal. If we can understand and control everything than we can control death and thus no longer need to fear it. Or call it immortality through legacy or being part of something larger than ourselves. Same logic fits both "we need God" or "we need science."

And the same fact applies to both: just because something is constructed by humans does not make it invalid. Science is constructed by humans. Sure you can argue the laws of the universe were in existence before, but we identified them, labeled them--we gave them identities--constructed them. We give them validity by our belief in them.

You could make that argument, but I think it's not a very valid one. Science isn't about a fear of death at all. Are you arguing that, if we didn't all die, then fire is a useless invention, gravity is useless to understand? It's about understanding the world around us through observation. Living longer is a tiny tiny spin off.

You seem to be arguing that God only exists because of our belief in him? We don't give the laws of physics validity by our belief in them, but instead by our observation of them. This is something that you cannot argue in favor of God.

Let me humour you by accepting that science is about a fear of death. Science actually gives verifiable results which extend our lives. God and eternal life are just something that you're pretending about, you'll still live just as long with or without it.

The OP claims that there is a clash between science and God. This seems like a contradiction to me. I can't see how it's possible to have a clash between science and God.

CMM_Kaleido
Jan 31, 2008, 06:34 AM
Yes, It sounds like a lot of hogwash to me. He seems arguing that God only existed at the big bang. Would you agree with that?

Does he say that the infinite energy only existed at the Big Bang? I didn't get that.



You could make that argument, but I think it's not a very valid one. Science isn't about a fear of death at all. Are you arguing that, if we didnt all die, then fire is a useless invention, gravity is useless to understand? It's about understanding the world around us through observation. Living longer is a tiny tiny spin off.

Defeating death is just one aspect of what drives science--I called that one out first because you mentioned it specifically. I stated the following:

"If we can understand and control everything than we can control death and thus no longer need to fear it. Or call it immortality through legacy or being part of something larger than ourselves."

These are all part of the same thing:understanding the universe so we can control our place in it.


You seem to be arguing that God only exists because of our belief in him? We don't give the laws of physics validity by our belief in them, but instead by our observation of them. This is something that you cannot argue in favor of God.

Observation is only half of it. We observe, then label--thus it is part of a human construction of reality. Does gravity exist whether you label it or not? You would say yes. And guess what--so does God: the intelligent creator behind gravity. Just because we have not observed Him in a context science was prepared to label does not mean He is not there.

NeedKarma
Jan 31, 2008, 06:38 AM
And guess what--so does God: the intelligent creator behind gravity. Just because we have not observed Him in a context science was prepared to label does not mean He is not there.Actually in the scientific realm it does indeed mean that he is not there because we cannot view/measure that "fact". If, in 1,000 years we come up with a way to measure or make a replicable experiment that proves that phenomena then the understanding of "god" may change then. But for now the answer is there is no god at work.

CMM_Kaleido
Jan 31, 2008, 06:48 AM
NeedKarma are you saying that scientists can not acknowledge the possibility of the existence of something they have not already discovered? That can't be what you meant to say. Even scientists have to use something other than fact to come up with the idea of something while they work to prove it. If every hypothesis starts with absolute fact and already observed reality what is the point of science?

I sure as heck thought I was teaching my boys to use their skills as observers in conjunction with with that amazing brain to imagine possibilities not yet conceived, observed, or labeled.

NeedKarma
Jan 31, 2008, 07:01 AM
All right then, how would go about testing for the presence of god since you've already imagined the possibility?

workerbee
Jan 31, 2008, 07:22 AM
So worker bee:

you changed your signature. Because god made me an atheist, though a joke, ironically acknowledges God and absolves you of the choice you make.


Lets see, your type of god would have to prove himself to you with all sorts of miracles and supernatural feats. No choice, no effort to decide. What kind of god is that? One at your beck and call to make your life here on earth better? One that does not give you the free will to love back. No wonder you do not believe. So enjoy your time here - its limited, there is nothing after death, as you say.

1 John 4: 7-21 - in fact the whole epistle.
that is my kind of God. :D

And your god promises everything and does Nothing. Why would you believe in him? In that case take your pick. I like Zeus better than your God. Enjoy your time in your make-believe-world. You also might try to open your mind up a bit and realize that you might be worshiping the wrong God which makes you in danger of going to another hell. Think about it. Let me finish with this "If i am wrong and God exists, the same God who gave me a brain, reason, common sense. I don't think that this god would then condemn me for using those tools he gave me"
:D
workerbee

firmbeliever
Jan 31, 2008, 08:38 AM
What is god??There is always this clash between science & god.Can God be a huge amount of energy??
The question whether there is an Almighty God does not fall under the jurisdiction of science the same as with the proof of a life after death, as science is concerned with classification and analysis of data.
Scientific inquiries and research,in the modern sense of the term has only been researched in recent history, whereas the concept of the existence of the Almighty and life after death has been a question on man's mind since time immemorial.

As NeedKarma points out, scientifically there is nothing to prove the existence of the Almighty in the same way that we can prove the existence of air, water ,planets, blood cells, cancer etc using microscopes and other gadgets available.

The proof of his existence for those who believe now as well as those who accepted the words of the Messengers and Prophets all those centuries ago is available all around us.
Beginning with our own selves. This is where science does not contradict religion in my belief. Science proves that each of us are unique individuals made of intricately designed networks, with power supplies non stop within us to energize organs and make them function even as we sleep.Then there is the part of our consciousness of our surroundings using our senses and how this data is processed and made available at the blink of an eye.Those without certain capabilities make us realize how much dearer it is to be able to have them.Realisation dawns within us that the existence of life itself could not have come about by itself and thus proves to the believer the existence of the Almighty and science just proves it to those who believe.

Man with his perceptual consciousness, rational, aesthetic and moral consciousness chooses to believe in the Almighty.

I can only quote from the Book I believe and follow in regards to those who do not believe in the existence of the Almighty…..
"They say, 'There is nothing but our present life; we die, and we live, and nothing but Time destroys us.' Of that they have no knowledge; they merely conjecture…….. ' (45:24-25)

And no I do not believe that the Almighty is energy in the sense of the term which we are aware of in this world, He is not defined or constricted by the things of this world we live in, like time and space and energy. The Almighty is beyond all that we see and feel.
And no He cannot be measured, weighed or labeled under a scientific name just to prove to those who do not believe.

vaskalr
Jan 31, 2008, 10:29 AM
Let us define god in the most simple words- god is something who can do everything. If you agree with this definition then we can proceed further. If god can do everything then why don't it just do everything. In this universe everything happens with a predefined purpose. Whatever happens, you can add a purpose with that. The one who attaches purpose to every act can be defined as god. So if we go by this definition then god is a manager of energy rather then itself energy. As the energy can never be destroyed so the manager of energy can`t be destroyed.

Cho
Jan 31, 2008, 11:53 AM
How did this come under religion?
I wanted this under science not religion.I want this to be looked at from the point of view of science not religion

wewed100606
Jan 31, 2008, 12:00 PM
Wow... I don't even think I want to venture into this conversation... this board is thinking so hard I see the smoke coming out of its ears!

Cho
Jan 31, 2008, 12:03 PM
Wow...I don't even think I want to venture into this conversation...this board is thinking so hard I see the smoke coming out of its ears!

IS THIS A JOKE??

mugger
Feb 3, 2008, 11:13 PM
I heard something that made a lot of sense in an article I was reading. It says that God isn't in everything, God IS everything. Hope it helps.

vaskalr
Feb 4, 2008, 10:00 AM
Gita says god is in everything as well as god is everything. It is a two way.

NeedKarma
Feb 4, 2008, 10:07 AM
Who's gita?

wewed100606
Feb 4, 2008, 10:22 AM
What is god??There is always this clash between science & god.Can God be a huge amount of energy??

Wow, if anyone here can answer this question with any definity we can solve many of the worlds problems. Isn't this one of the most antagonistic and unanswerable questions to date? This is the equivalent of asking "What is love?" they are both unagreeable questions from now until forever. Good conversation though!

workerbee
Feb 4, 2008, 10:25 AM
People make up God all the time. That's why we have so many. Some think God is the universe from we we all came, others think God is a ball of energy, inspired by Star trek no doubt. I can make up many Gods add some math equations to convince and a God is born. If you want to know the meaning of existence then I don't think here is the place to look Cho. No one really knows but in the future we might

workerbee

vaskalr
Feb 4, 2008, 10:33 AM
Who's gita?
Gita is name of a holy book of hindus

Cho
Feb 4, 2008, 11:26 AM
Who's gita?

Gita or bhagavat gita is a religious epic of hindus.It mentions all types of human characters and even some of the scientific phenomena seen today like having test tube babies,weapons of mass destruction etc and is set in a time modern day scientists can't even think of.;)

NeedKarma
Feb 4, 2008, 11:33 AM
Interesting. :)

Cho
Feb 4, 2008, 11:41 AM
Interesting. :)

What's so interesting:confused:

NeedKarma
Feb 4, 2008, 11:46 AM
The hindu version of things.

Cho
Feb 4, 2008, 11:51 AM
Hinduism is the oldest religion.I believe everything else is a continuation

NeedKarma
Feb 4, 2008, 11:58 AM
Every religion believes that same thing.

Cho
Feb 4, 2008, 12:01 PM
Every religion believes that same thing.
Example?

NeedKarma
Feb 4, 2008, 12:08 PM
Christians think that God created the world and everything in it.

Cho
Feb 4, 2008, 12:15 PM
In hinduism it is just said that God created us.Nothing specific about creating just 2 people or anything.And it is said that we take birth & we die until we 'dissolve' in God.Hinduism talks about huge amt of time before our present and in our future.I thought christianity originated frm Jesus

wewed100606
Feb 4, 2008, 01:31 PM
Case and point. It is amazing the amount of conversation that can be generated from pure speculation. That is what is so great about these religious questions... you can't prove any of them... and no one can truly "prove" the scientific versions of things either. And religeons answer for that... faith of course! I wonder where the world would be if every time we didn't have an answer for some problem we just sat back and said "have faith". I love it! I wonder if a couple thousand years from now Harry Potter might be a religion? J/K relax ;)

imation
Feb 7, 2008, 04:33 AM
Haha, funny you should mention Harry Potter, there is such an underlying Christian theme in those books, think about it

Cho
Feb 7, 2008, 04:38 AM
haha, funny you should mention Harry Potter, there is such an underlying Christian theme in those books, think about it

What is the underlying christian theme??

imation
Feb 7, 2008, 04:45 AM
OK you can figure it out yourself, I'll start you off with a list of characters
Dumbldore is God
Voldemort is Satin
Harry is Jesus
The DA in book 5 - diciples of christ
There's heaps more... the way no one in the ministry believes in harry in book 4 but it turned out to be true that voldemort was back, that's like the pharessi's not believing in christ, in book seven harry sacrifices himself so that everyone will live buthe dies and lives in the end, the death eaters are like demons

Cho
Feb 7, 2008, 04:48 AM
Now that u mention it seems like an exact copy of bible

imation
Feb 7, 2008, 04:53 AM
Lol, not exact but some key element are the same.
CS lewis wrote the Chronicles of Narnia to explain christianity to his children, the movie is about the sacrifice of christ (asslan the lion being christ)

bijan666
Feb 7, 2008, 02:35 PM
God is like WWF wrestling , everyone knows its fake . Everyone knows it is the ultimate stupidity . But it feels good and it generates a lot of money , so lets all pretend we don't know .

littlebear91
Feb 7, 2008, 02:48 PM
Mystries of nature may just be a part of physic that have been undiscovered. However, it's the emotional belief of god that existed within human that tries to explain the current unknown. When human are scared, they usually back away from the truth and try to sabotage the truth. That's the human psychology and its within our nature to be defensive. Having said All that I believe there is no real answer to this question, at least not with our current technology.

bijan666
Feb 8, 2008, 01:09 PM
Dear sir : where did you get the idea that nothing is impossible ?
Doesn't this mean that EVERYTHING is possible ? Have you ever thought
About what you just said ? Everything is possible ? Can I turn into Elvis ?
Yes sir that is exactly what you just said .
Anything is possible ? You mean nothing is impossible ? Can I put the statue of liberty
In my pocket? This is my problem with religious people , they just memorize a bunch of
Half baked meaningless cliche's and just repeat them without even thinking or caring
Whether they make sense . Jesus loves you , how many time have you heard that crap ?
How the hell do they know that Jesus loves me ? May be my name is Adolph Hitler ,
If Jesus loves Adolph Hitler then screw Jesus . Good day to all you good people.

Cho
Feb 9, 2008, 12:21 AM
Dear sir : where did you get the idea that nothing is impossible ?
doesn't this mean that EVERYTHING is possible ? have you ever thought
about what you just said ? everything is possible ? can I turn into Elvis ?
yes sir that is exactly what you just said .
Anything is possible ? you mean nothing is impossible ? can I put the statue of liberty
in my pocket ?

What he meant might be "everything logical is possible."u can't turn into Elvis.But if u try hard u can become a singer like Elvis.all your examples seem illogical.:p

Cho
Feb 9, 2008, 12:33 AM
Jesus loves you , how many time have you heard that crap ?
How the hell do they know that Jesus loves me ? may be my name is Adolph Hitler ,
if Jesus loves Adolph Hitler then screw Jesus .

God loves everybody.Jesus even forgave the disciple who gave him away.
Besides what happened to jews during Hitler's time was punishment from God himself for killing Jesus.It was fate.Hitler was just an instrument in the hands of God.THIS IS MY BELIEF.I AM NOT AGAINST JEWS OR ANYTHING.

MasuBhat
Feb 9, 2008, 01:38 AM
God is someone you fully turst.

Frm my side.

Capuchin
Feb 9, 2008, 01:46 AM
what he meant might be "everything logical is possible."u can't turn into Elvis.But if u try hard u can become a singer like Elvis.all your examples seem illogical.:p

Or he might have meant that "the state of nothingness is impossible".

beth911
Feb 9, 2008, 01:56 AM
God is an opinion. Some people believe in god and some don't. People believe in different gods but also that there is only one god. Its different depepnding on different religions. Its all opinion

workerbee
Feb 9, 2008, 07:30 AM
Cho, some scholars now think Jesus never existed. There were no secular writers of his day that mentioned him. He was mentioned about forty years later or more, like some legends, Robin Hood, and a few others. Very strange
If he did the miracles then he should have drawn the attention of hundreds of comtemporary writers but did not, leading many to think no miracles were performed. He also never left any writings in his own hand (maybe they were lost) This indicates that Jesus was illiterate as were the apostles or again he neve existed but was made up.

workerbee

Cho
Feb 10, 2008, 12:23 AM
Jesus is mentioned not only in bible but in quran as well.Do u mean to say both these may be incorrect.Man you are questioning christianity as well as islam!!

mummy-duck
Feb 10, 2008, 12:39 AM
Hey cho just agreeing with you there is a god and prayer does work if you ever tired it you can't expect things to happen for you straight away nor can you ask for rediculas things like a million dollars god is practical and he loves each and everyone of us here on earth...
Question... can you see the wind.. no but you know it is there.. we can't see god but we know that he is there

Cho
Feb 10, 2008, 03:20 AM
Or he might have meant that "the state of nothingness is impossible".

I didn't get you.

NeedKarma
Feb 10, 2008, 03:49 AM
Jesus is mentioned not only in bible but in quran as well.Do u mean to say both these may be incorrect.Man you are questioning christianity as well as islam!!!Correct!

Capuchin
Feb 10, 2008, 08:35 AM
Touch the air, get a photo of the air, but I feel it when it blows

Have you looked at the sky? Air is completely visible, it's blue when seen from perpendicular to the illumination direction, and red when viewed towards the illumination direction.

workerbee
Feb 11, 2008, 07:15 AM
Cho, you have to read what I say. I know Jesus is mentioned but NOT during his life ANYWHERE, that's a fact. He is only mentioned 40 years and more after he died. So some scholars say because of this he might not of existed at all. I question not only Christianity, and Islam but every religion everywhere. Basically I give facts and you ignore them to believe what you want. Doesn't matter to me.

Mummy duck, You can think that prayer works, but you ignore the RESEARCH prayer does not work at all. It may help people who believe in God by lessening depression or anxiety but not the problem itself If a person has a damaged spine you can pray till you are blue in the face and nothing will happen.
I never said asking for money I am talking about real healings that's a fact.

Never underestimate the power of denial

workerbee

beth911
Feb 11, 2008, 08:04 AM
No one really knows for sure what god is though

Cho
Feb 11, 2008, 08:15 AM
If a person has a damaged spine you can pray till you are blue in the face and nothing will happen.
workerbee

There is a boundary between logic and faith.

NeedKarma
Feb 11, 2008, 08:24 AM
There is a boundary between logic and faith.I don't understand. What logic are you referring to?

Cho
Feb 11, 2008, 08:53 AM
I am just refferring to logical thinking like using our brain.

If I saw a man with a damaged spine I would get him medical help and pray to god that he gets well fast.

Cho
Feb 11, 2008, 09:09 AM
Cho, you have to read what i say. I know Jesus is mentioned but NOT during his life ANYWHERE, that's a fact. he is only mentioned 40 years and more after he died. So some scholars say because of this he might not of existed at all. I question not only Christianity, and Islam but every religion everywhere. Basically I give facts and you ignore them to believe what you want. Doesn't matter to me.
workerbee

I do read every answer and I do think before answering.

I only meant to ask whether you think the whole genealogy of Jesus as well was made up?

NeedKarma
Feb 11, 2008, 09:12 AM
I am just refferring to logical thinking like using our brain.

If i saw a man with a damaged spine i would get him medical help and pray to god that he gets well fast.Shouldn't just praying do the trick?

Cho
Feb 11, 2008, 09:30 AM
My logic asks me to act first and pray later.God is not a miracle waiting to happen.

NeedKarma
Feb 11, 2008, 10:00 AM
Ah, so you rely on the fruits of science first.

workerbee
Feb 11, 2008, 03:45 PM
From your last replies Cho, I think you are an Atheist waititng to happen.Your thinking and a realist as well. Good. As far as Jesus goes I personally believe that he existed but was just a man, my point is that it does not matter what I believe if the research says he never existed. His geneolgy is off if he never existed obviously but no one can say for sure. I was just giving another veiwpoint on him.

workerbee

Cho
Feb 12, 2008, 06:40 AM
I also believe Jesus to be a man not an ordinary one like as though.I mean he never told he is the god.Besides he always used to refer God as his father.So clearly there was someone above him.

Cho
Feb 12, 2008, 06:43 AM
I'm not an atheist.I am spiritual but not religious.

Cho
Feb 12, 2008, 06:45 AM
Ah, so you rely on the fruits of science first.

And it is my belif that science has progressed this much due to God's grace.

CMM_Kaleido
Feb 16, 2008, 11:42 PM
God loves everybody.Jesus even forgave the disciple who gave him away.
Besides what happened to jews during Hitler's time was punishment from God himself for killing Jesus.It was fate.Hitler was just an instrument in the hands of God.THIS IS MY BELIEF.I AM NOT AGAINST JEWS OR ANYTHING.

Cho, I am sorry but I really have to question you on this one. You have contradicted yourself severely in these two lines.

Besides that this is not the God I believe in. Jesus died so that we could have his message of loving others more than ourselves--as he loved us more than himself. (workerbee, whether he was immortal or not he died for a message) As I believe, it is not a Christian God you are describing as vengeful (maybe an OT God) but that God could not have created the entire universe because he would be little better than us and we can't even comprehend the entire universe.

workerbee
Feb 17, 2008, 08:48 AM
Cmm, if you read some of my posts jesus may not have existed at all. Whether he did or not what you might not know is: When Jesus was killed his brother James became the leader Not peter as most people think . He was so loved that he became known as james the just. The point is that he taught something diiferent than what people BELIEVE jesus taught. So now it is believed that what Jesus supposely taught may not be what you think

Good to hear from you again.

workerbee

CMM_Kaleido
Feb 17, 2008, 09:30 AM
Cmm, if you read some of my posts jesus may not have existed at all. Whether he did or not what you might not know is: When Jesus was killed his brother James became the leader Not peter as most people think . He was so loved that he became known as james the just. the point is that he taught something diiferent than what people BELIEVE jesus taught. So now it is believed that what Jesus supposely taught may not be what you think

Good to hear from you again.

workerbee

Does it really matter? If the message can change the world (if people follow it) do the details of how we got it really affect the message?

(Don't really know I am actually asking--please note I am not asking about the details, i.e. whether Jesus existed)

I was taking a break from arguing--sorry "debating."

Cho--do you still think it is possible that God is a large amount of energy? Have you gleaned any new ideas from all of this about your original question?

Cho
Feb 18, 2008, 05:22 AM
As I believe, it is not a Christian God you are describing as vengeful (maybe an OT God) but that God could not have created the entire universe because he would be little better than us and we can't even comprehend the entire universe.

Who is the christian god? Jesus? He never told he was god.Did he? Though I believe Jesus was no ordinary mortal.

I am sorry that I told god was vengeful.my mistake.I must say, that incident was just an aftermath or consequence of what they did to Jesus.

Cho
Feb 18, 2008, 05:25 AM
Cmm, if you read some of my posts jesus may not have existed at all. Whether he did or not what you might not know is: When Jesus was killed his brother James became the leader Not peter as most people think . He was so loved that he became known as james the just. the point is that he taught something diiferent than what people BELIEVE jesus taught. So now it is believed that what Jesus supposely taught may not be what you think

Good to hear from you again.

workerbee

Where did you get this.May I know the source

Cho
Feb 18, 2008, 05:29 AM
Cho--do you still think it is possible that God is a large amount of energy? Have you gleaned any new ideas from all of this about your original question?

Now I think this was a silly question.Actually I needed an explanation based on science.and I posted this question under science.But someone probably moderators moved this under religion.Nobody got an exact answer.

MOWERMAN2468
Feb 18, 2008, 05:55 AM
The ultamatium of all ultamatiums.

Capuchin
Feb 18, 2008, 06:01 AM
I moved this to religion because it is not science in any way. It's religious speculation. I also don't believe that science and God are mutually exclusive at all. It might be if you are a biblical literalist, but I think that this viewpoint is plainly ridiculous in the light of scientific work.

God and science are compatible, if someone thinks that they are at odds then they need to learn more about science or look more closely at their faith. I have a very dedicated Christian friend who is applying for a PhD in astrophysics, he accepts evolution, the big bang, and other scientific theories based on the evidence for them, but still has room for the Christian God in his worldview.

There are things that science currently has no explanation for, and things that may never be explained by science. God can fit in here. The idea of a God is slightly ugly under scientific principles, because he cannot be observed or measured, but it's still a possibility that science doesn't rule out.

workerbee
Feb 18, 2008, 08:26 AM
Where did you get this.May I know the source


Cho, This was from years of reading Biblical scholars. You can find lots on his brother James the just, who became the Bishop of Jerusalem, A very powerful position at the time. Today we have the Pauline Christainity James taught something different than what we see today. Example Jesus never wanted non-jews in his church. Remember there was all kind of politics as well. Over the years messages change the way people are inclined to believe.


Wokrerbee

Allheart
Feb 18, 2008, 08:40 AM
God loves everybody.Jesus even forgave the disciple who gave him away.
Besides what happened to jews during Hitler's time was punishment from God himself for killing Jesus.It was fate.Hitler was just an instrument in the hands of God.THIS IS MY BELIEF.I AM NOT AGAINST JEWS OR ANYTHING.


Cho -

Yes, I believe, like , you that God loves everybody...

But


:eek:

Whatever helped you to form the belief of what you indicated above. My goodness. That is not my belief at all. Jewish people are God's children and he loves them as well.
That's a first that I heard that. To me that's an incredibly sad belief. God is a loving God and I know you have nothing against Jewish people, and why should you? They are beautiful people and children of God as well.

CMM_Kaleido
Feb 18, 2008, 09:07 AM
Who is the christian god??Jesus??He never told he was god.Did he??Though I believe Jesus was no ordinary mortal.

This is a question for the Christian theologian's out there. There may even be a difference between their beliefs. Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity, which is the Father (God), Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit or Ghost. For Catholics, as I was taught, they are all one and the same. I'm afraid I don't understand it myself so I can't explain any further.

Allheart
Feb 18, 2008, 10:09 AM
CMM - I agree, explaining the Holy Trinity is difficult and even fully understanding it.

Father, (God), Son, (Jesus) Holy Spirit ( and I think Holy Spirit). = Holy Trinity

But to answer the question I think, the Christian God, is God and His son is Jesus. I think it would be the same.

Sorry, don't think I was much help.

BABRAM
Feb 18, 2008, 04:11 PM
Who is the source of all consciousness? Who is the source of life?


Kabbalists say that G-d (HaShem) is the Ultimate Reality and the Endless One (Ein Sof) and I agree. We can't stuff something as vast and abstract as that into any rigid concept or image. Even the tetragrammaton is best only a hint, because the One (HaShem) to whom it refers is beyond names and concepts. The Hebrew letters yud, hey, vav, hey is written out in English as "Y/H/V/H." In other words, "was/is/and/will be." Albert Einstein, who is generally recognized as the greatest scientist who ever lived wrote: "Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe. A spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we, with all our modest powers, must feel humble."

Capuchin
Feb 19, 2008, 06:37 AM
even Albert Einstein belived in God.why can't you as a graduate in phy

Einstein did not, at least nothing at all comparable with the Christian God. Although I'm not sure why this is relevant.

workerbee
Feb 19, 2008, 07:13 AM
Einstein, is quoted that he is not a believer in God.
CMM-Kaleido, As far as his message I don't buy it for one second. Many ancient beliefs were of total forgiveness. One group (I forget the name) influenced Gandhi and Martin luther king Jr got it from Gandhi look what happened to the both of them. Forgiving enemies sounds good to hear but it is worthless in reality. IMO jesus was not very bright
Said lots of ignorant things like "All illness is caused by sin" I am still baffled that people take his words seriously.

workerbee

BABRAM
Feb 19, 2008, 08:19 AM
Albert Einstein was of a Reform Jewish background, which ironically is the same as myself. He didn't make regular practice of attending service, but as his quote relates from his own science learned intellect, he concluded that we, as humans, have a superior when observing the mechanisms at work in our universe. I think it is fair to say, as Capuchin pointed out, that Einstein's views was not that of modern Christianity.

inthebox
Feb 19, 2008, 09:27 PM
Einstein, is quoted that he is not a believer in God.
CMM-Kaleido, As far as his message I don't buy it for one second. many ancient beliefs were of total forgiveness. One group (I forget the name) influenced Ghandi and Martin luther king Jr got it from Ghandi look what happened to the both of them. forgiving enemies sounds good to hear but it is worthless in reality. IMO jesus was not very bright
said lots of ignorant things like "All illness is caused by sin" I am still baffled that people take his words seriously.

workerbee

Romans 12:
17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good




MLK was a Baptist Minister. He made a huge impact. Is Civil Rights "worthless," workerbee?

Compare that to his contemporary Malcolm X.

workerbee
Feb 20, 2008, 07:58 AM
Civil right is is not worthless, that's for sure There are other ways of going about it. MLK and his non-violence beliefs were not the reason of change. He believed is a cause and fought for it Whether he was a Christain or not change would have happened if you work hard enough. Turning the other cheek is silly and not realistic behavior. Being kind to people who hate you is what I am referring too I believe that jesus said something about "If someone steals from you give him your cloak as well" I don't in the box you would do that, very few would but it sounds good, in reality no very good. If you are going to quote that silly book of yours quote the MANY parts that condone slavery. I am sure you will say it is not true but I can quote from the Bible as well.


workerbee

Cho
Feb 21, 2008, 04:14 AM
Capuchin and Workerbee

May I assume u 2 don't believe in god.In that case I would like to inform you that recently foundation stone was laid for a research organisation which will integrate tradition with morality, science with spirituality and ethics with technology. I think they will prove the existence of The God .may be I'm going to get the answer for this question from them.

Sonia to lay foundation for research institute in Kerala - Yahoo! India News (http://in.news.yahoo.com/indiaabroad/20080211/r_t_ians_sc/tsc-sonia-to-lay-foundation-for-research-1bdf89b.html)

NeedKarma
Feb 21, 2008, 04:24 AM
From that link:

The foundation is currently conducting a research focused on the teachings of the late Guru who delved into the science related to the soul and its cosmic relation with human life and experiences.
'We are also conducting research on the influence of spirituality in medicament and help to improvise and standardize the quality of Ayurveda and Siddha medicines. We have two registered patents and several research projects are in the pipeline and at various levels,' added Njanatapsi.


I don't see where they have a goal of trying to prove there is a god.

Cho
Feb 21, 2008, 04:33 AM
The foundation is currently conducting a research focused on the teachings of the late Guru who delved into the science related to the soul and its cosmic relation with human life and experiences.

What do you know about the teachings of Guru? Itz all about the relation between God and humans.Everything's about spirituality without endorsing any of the religion that exist today.i.e. just spiritual not religious.I believe spirituality comes along with the concept of God.Am I wrong?

Motto of Santhigiri is
"WORD IS TRUTH. TRUTH IS GURU. GURU IS GOD"

workerbee
Feb 21, 2008, 08:07 AM
Capuchin and Workerbee

May i assume u 2 dont belive in god.In that case i would like to inform u that recently foundation stone was laid for a research organisation which will integrate tradition with morality, science with spirituality and ethics with technology. i think they will prove the existence of The God .may be i'm going to get the answer for this question from them.

Sonia to lay foundation for research institute in Kerala - Yahoo! India News (http://in.news.yahoo.com/indiaabroad/20080211/r_t_ians_sc/tsc-sonia-to-lay-foundation-for-research-1bdf89b.html)


Cho, people have been trying to prove God for centuries. No one can. This won't either
But you do have some proofs already but are a bit closeminded to look at them, Go to my signature and read, not for just 5 minutes. At that site you can get on the forum and ask those questions from people who are very educated, there are also areas for christians,science, former christians, etc You might find an answer or a partial answer there. Who knows in time you might understand why I think the way I do.

workerbee

nilgajera
Feb 21, 2008, 08:32 AM
I want to say, I'm hindu,and if you came from any religion you must read "swami vivekananda".
God is supersoul and he is cause for anything happen in this "temporary world"
There is nothing more than god so not science also.
I think you must read & know about hindu mythology.

Ethmer
Feb 21, 2008, 08:45 PM
 

"who is God? where is God?"

The answers to those two questions depend upon what religious faith you accept as valid -- and there are many to choose from!


In my opinion

1. God created/caused our spirits (entities) along with the universe to come into being. God established the purpose for it all but doesn't involve Its self in the continuance or activities of same.

2. "Sin" is man's concept and is utilized by men to control other men. The human caused "negative events" that take place are circumstances that are considered by us in the non-life experience between incarnations as we evaluate the successes and failures we made as we attempted to achieve our goals during our incarnations.

3. The Bible (and similar religious books) is a necessary concoction created by man to control man and his environment. It was necessary because mankind, in its infancy, did not have the medical and technological knowledge to conquer and understand its environment so had to be controlled by superstitions which were found to save lives and further the survivability of the various human societies.


Why did God make the world?


In my opinion, God diversified Itself into Its many parts and charged those parts (entities) to go forth and acquire knowledge and experience and to then return to the Oneness of God.

The entities caused the creation of the universe and everything therein and individually choose to inhabit the physical bodies.

The entities may incarnate/reincarnate many times before gravitating back into the Oneness of God.


SPECULATIONS


Speculation: 1 Is God necessary?

Yes!

There has to be a Source from which the "big bang" sprang forth Creating the universe.


Speculation: 2 What is God?

God is the ultimate Cause.

God is the Creative Entity, Energy or Force from which all is derived.


Speculation: 3 Where is God?

God is in a state of awareness that is outside the universe.

God has morphed part of Itself into those entities (spirits) that inhabit the universe and the physical bodies within.


Speculation: 4 Why is God?

God Is because God Is.

God is eternal, existing independent of time or the universe.


Speculation: 5 Is God concerned?

No!

God is not concerned with the daily functioning of the universe or matters within it. That is our domain and subject to our whim.


Speculation: 6 What are we?

We are the spirits (entities) of God.

God morphed into Us and we continue to create according to God's purpose.

Our physical bodies are simply the means we use to experience and function in the physical dimension.


Speculation: 7 Why are we?

We are for the purpose of gaining knowledge and experience.

In the end, we gravitate back into the Oneness of God allowing for the fulfillment of God.


Speculation: 8 Evolution

Evolution is simply a tool of Creation.

The entities often influence the direction of evolution along desired paths.


From my chosen path I stray,
Yet my God ne'er turns away;
For I have learned -- and understand,
That where God is -- is where I am!

workerbee
Feb 22, 2008, 08:41 AM
Ethmer, the need to believe in God is a. psychological one. You say God is necessary but should he be necessary if he does not exist? Think about it

workerbee

Allheart
Feb 22, 2008, 08:48 AM
What is god??There is always this clash between science & god.Can God be a huge amount of energy??


For me - I guess the question would be - Who is God? I believe God is our Heveanly Father who loves each of us.

Can he be a huge amount of energy? I don't think so, but I truly don't know.

But if I answered your first question as you asked it... What is God...

God is love :)

Cho
Feb 23, 2008, 03:03 AM
i want to say, i m hindu,and if you came from any religion you must read "swami vivekananda".
god is supersoul and he is cause for anything happen in this "temporary world"
there is nothing more than god so not science also.
i think you must read & know about hindu mythology.

I myself born into a hindu family.But me not a hindu

Cho
Feb 23, 2008, 03:28 AM
I don't see where they have a goal of trying to prove there is a god.

I'm sorry. You are right.They are going to research about the life of great people and their teachings.