he's being offered 10 instead of 80. Given that option I would sing any song Mueller wants me to sing . There is nothing Manafort can add about the so called "collusion " investigation that Manafort can add that hasn't already been said to Mueller by Gates .AND since Gates has been singing ,the only thing Mueller did that was new was charge a bunch of Ruskie pajama boys ,and transfered those cases to other Justice Dept divisions.



However, a source close to the defense told POLITICO, "the cooperation agreement does not involve the Trump campaign. ... There was no collusion with Russia.https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/former-trump-campaign-chairman-paul-manafort-appears-to-reach-plea-deal-823882

What this deal REALLY does is spare Mueller the wasted time of another trial against Manafort . That this brings this ridiculous investigation closer to an end is probably a good thing. . I expect his close out argument will go public in time for an October surprise .He will not have anything on Trump ;but will cloud his report with innuendo that will be seen as borderline obstruction to the Dems ;who hope a "blue wave " will gain them a majority in the House . Then they can waste our time and tax dollars with a kangaroo court impeachment .

It doesn't work like that and you know full well that anything Manafort, Gates, or any other defendant says has to be verified. I guess given the events so far you cannot imagine any wrong doing by the Dufus or his sycophants. I also suspect there is MUCH more to learn and no matter who wins the election, actions will have to be taken.

I don't think this investigation is ridicules, I think it's sad we have to have one and keep finding out stuff we didn't know, or some of you didn't know. The Dufus had a long history in business that was a warning that was ignored and still is by his ardent followers. I think Mueller will uncover a whole lot on The Dufus and his crime family.

Afraid of losing your tax cut Tom? Why didn't you speak up about the repubs using our tax money to investigate Hillary, and not finding anything? Even Sessions hasn't picked up the mantle, at least not publicly.

I guess given the events so far you cannot imagine any wrong doing by the Dufus or his sycophants.
I see no evidence of the alleged underlying crime (which in itself is not a crime) . I see no justification for the appointment of Mueller at all.



The Dufus had a long history in business that was a warning that was ignored and still is by his ardent followers.
I for one said that he is vulnerable with his business practices . That is not for a special council to investigate .Mueller was given a counter-intelligence investigation that had nothing to do with Trumps businesses .

The intelligence community has found plenty of evidence that Russia conducted a cyber intrusion into our systems, including our voting and elections systems. They have been a recipient of stolen data, or they stole it themselves, and weaponized it during that election as well. That's the underlying crime and the question has always been if they had help or not and if so who. You said that in the last paragraph, and so far any other evidence into other matters have been referred to the proper jurisdictions. Like a traffic stop that ends up being a dope bust or warrant arrest. That's what happens when popo catch you riding dirty.

What, he should not investigate other crimes he finds along the way? That's not how that works and whose fault is it that a person has legal vulnerabilities? You should have voted for Hillary and let her face the music you righties thinks she deserves. As for the dufus, anything he says can be used against him in a court of law, and he is old enough to know that.

Good luck with Pence as the new prez. According to Grover Norquist all the right needs is someone that can sign the bills repubs put in front of him. You got that and elections do have consequences. Mueller having nothing on the dufus is a bet I wouldn't take.

The bet you should take is wheter Trump releases all the docs requested by the Intel committees . I've already stated that Mueller's final report will hedge his bets ,and that is where it will end . Trump holds the cards in the documents . Release them and the bodies of his tormentors will start to fall. The real criminal activity occured in the highest levels of the emperor's justice and intel agencies.if not in the emperor's White House itself

The intelligence community has found plenty of evidence that Russia conducted a cyber intrusion into our systems, including our voting and elections systems.

Yes, and who was the president when that was going on? Who was the guy who stood around and did nothing while the Russkies did that? He did about as much to stop that as he did to stop the disaster in Benghazi.

Three times prior to Mueller appointment, and once after, FBI & DOJ swore to FISA court that there was probable cause to believe Trump campaign officials were complicit in Russia’s cyberespionage operation against 2016 election. Now we find out from Lisa Page testimony to Congress that the FBI couldn’t find proof of Trump-Russia collusion before Mueller named special council . That means there was no basis for the Carter Page initial FISA warrants ;and no legal justification for the special council appointment .There was no crime or evidence of a crime as special counsel regulation mandates ;and Comey was instrumental and intentionally sought to weaponize the FBI, on his way out, under the pretense of a counter intelligence investigation focused on Trump to find a crime.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/trump-russia-probe-fbi-fisa-application/

I don't care for Trump's personal life. I don't like his tweets and his inability to control his mouth. But I do hope that he will clean out the corruption left behind by years, or even decades, of business as usual in Washington.

Are you guys starting your own Fantasy Politics League now or what?

Are you guys starting your own Fantasy Politics League now or what?

Yes. You have caught us red-handed.

What on earth are you talking about? Sounds like the writing of a person who has run out of logical arguments.

Do you honestly think there is anything honest about the rhetoric here

Yes. You have caught us red-handed.

What on earth are you talking about? Sounds like the writing of a person who has run out of logical arguments.

Logic doesn't apply when you guys dream stuff up. The Dufus sycophants are falling like flies at a catfish picnic.

Logic doesn't apply when you guys dream stuff up.

Glad to hear you finally admit that logic does not enter into your thinking.

Maybe you misread my posts, or are feeling snarking. My point has been it's you who are not logic, nor quick to admit to the facts seeking instead to duck and dodge the issues we discuss. That usually means you got nothing. You have yet to explain all the prez's men going to jail, or any connections at all to the dufus, and Russia which is becoming very apparent that he and his family have obvious strong ties too.

You have yet to explain why the dufus has so many criminals on the payroll, or why they lied about their activities, which on the surface calls into question whether this was intentional, or just the dufus being a dufus in his vetting, or associations. Criminals, foreign and domestic, spies and Russian oligarchs with a mix of enough women to brew scandals and now we have his nomination for SCOTUS accused of sexual assault right before a vote to confirm.

Yet all you can do is keep holding your nose, defending the dufus words, actions, and behaviors, and holler HILLARY? That defies all logic!

If you want me to admit to the facts, you might try listing a few. Allegations are not facts. There are no proven connections to Russia, no one on the president's staff is a criminal, no Russian spies or oligarchs involved in the Trump campaign, and the allegation against Kavanaugh is likely another pathetic cheap shot by desperate dems trying to gin up public support against him.

You need to learn the difference between facts and the fantasies you drum up in your writing. Not the same thing.

Now Obama lying about Benghazi? Fact.
The Veterans Admin scandal? Fact.
Clinton's ridiculous email scandal? Fact.
The IRS scandal? Fact?
Cory Booker made to look like a fool with his "Spartacus moment"? Fact.
Kamala Harris looking ridiculous with her questioning of Kavanaugh? Fact.
Fast and Furious gun running scandal? Fact.

So there's some examples of facts for you to think about.

allegation against Kavanaugh
I am having trouble wrapping my head around his assertion that birth control pill = abortion. How did he prevent his wife from having more than two children?

If you want me to admit to the facts, you might try listing a few. Allegations are not facts. There are no proven connections to Russia,

Manafort! I'll stop there so you can process that FACT.


no one on the president's staff is a criminal, no Russian spies or oligarchs involved in the Trump campaign, and the allegation against Kavanaugh is likely another pathetic cheap shot by desperate dems trying to gin up public support against him.

Porter was a wife beater, and his campaign cronies are liars who pleaded guilty, and cooperated to some extent with Mueller. The allegations of sexual assault though needs to be explored though I think your conspiracy mindset against her will prevail like it usually does. So lets have that public hearing and find out one way or another.


You need to learn the difference between facts and the fantasies you drum up in your writing. Not the same thing.

LOL, listen to you when all your posts are nothing but rock throwing right wing NOISE berift of facts and understanding of the facts and the following is but an example

Now Obama lying about Benghazi? Fact. NOT a fact but a lie since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY. Look it up!
The Veterans Admin scandal? Fact. It's still a scandal and that's a fact! Was before Obama, and that's another fact
Clinton's ridiculous email scandal? Fact. Only in your right wing loony mind that means NOTHING to anyone else.
The IRS scandal? Fact? Loony wingers who can't fill out simple applications?
Cory Booker made to look like a fool with his "Spartacus moment"? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant
Kamala Harris looking ridiculous with her questioning of Kavanaugh? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant
Fast and Furious gun running scandal? Fact. Scandalous more for incompetence than wrong doing.


So there's some examples of facts for you to think about.

You are a true right wing loony JL, and that's okay as far as I'm concerned. Nothing personal... just an observation.

Manafort! I'll stop there so you can process that FACT.
Earth to Tal. Manafort pleaded guilty to crimes committed long before he was associated with Trump. You need to try a LOT harder than that.

Now Obama lying about Benghazi? Fact. NOT a fact but a lie since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY. Look it up! I did but you didn't. He sent out Susan Rice on five Sunday morning talk shows shortly after to say it was NOT an act of terror. How do you explain that???

The Veterans Admin scandal? Fact. It's still a scandal and that's a fact! Was before Obama, and that's another fact. Sounds like you admitting it's a fact. It went on during the Obama admin and he did absolutely nothing to hold anyone responsible.

Clinton's ridiculous email scandal? Fact. Only in your right wing loony mind that means NOTHING to anyone else. You call names when you have nothing useful to say. She destroyed evidence. End of story.

The IRS scandal? Fact? Loony wingers who can't fill out simple applications? That is the dumbest justification I have ever heard. They discriminated against conservative groups. It's a fact to everyone but you.

Cory Booker made to look like a fool with his "Spartacus moment"? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant. Only by you. How convenient.

Kamala Harris looking ridiculous with her questioning of Kavanaugh? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant. Again, only by you. How convenient.

Fast and Furious gun running scandal? Fact. Scandalous more for incompetence than wrong doing. People died, but since they weren't named Tal, I guess you don't care. Sad.

Earth to Tal. Manafort pleaded guilty to crimes committed long before he was associated with Trump. You need to try a LOT harder than that.

He pleaded guilty to all the charges... BEFORE, After, and during all the way up to 2016...


Now Obama lying about Benghazi? Fact. NOT a fact but a lie since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY. Look it up! I did but you didn't. He sent out Susan Rice on five Sunday morning talk shows shortly after to say it was NOT an act of terror. How do you explain that???


If you were tuned into other news feeds as I was then you would know of the riots, demonstrations, and protests at the other embassies on that date, both before and after 9/11/2012

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/15/world/middleeast/anti-american-protests-over-film-enter-4th-day.html

Cairo and Benghazi Attacks: Two Sets of Fundamentalisms Unleash Havoc | TIME.com (http://world.time.com/2012/09/11/cairos-u-s-embassy-incident-two-sets-of-fundamentalisms-unleash-havoc/)

But you can read this and save me the writing to debunk your right wing loony fake noise hearby called RWLFN, especially when the arthritis kicks up.


The Veterans Admin scandal? Fact. It's still a scandal and that's a fact! Was before Obama, and that's another fact. Sounds like you admitting it's a fact. It went on during the Obama admin and he did absolutely nothing to hold anyone responsible.

Neither has the dufus except privatize it since the real scandal is Not Enough Doctors, which is a system wide national problem.


Clinton's ridiculous email scandal? Fact. Only in your right wing loony mind that means NOTHING to anyone else. You call names when you have nothing useful to say. She destroyed evidence. End of story.

Prove it prosecute it and stop hollering about it. You've had decades you now and you got zilch to show! Yeah, that's a fact.
The IRS scandal? Fact? Loony wingers who can't fill out simple applications? That is the dumbest justification I have ever heard. They discriminated against conservative groups. It's a fact to everyone but you.






Cory Booker made to look like a fool with his "Spartacus moment"? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant. Only by you. How convenient.

Kamala Harris looking ridiculous with her questioning of Kavanaugh? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant. Again, only by you. How convenient.

Fast and Furious gun running scandal? Fact. Scandalous more for incompetence than wrong doing. People died, but since they weren't named Tal, I guess you don't care. Sad.



​I love it when you wingers actually write your loony stuff for all to see.

As usual, your replies are filled with error and off the point. Still, this is getting us nowhere. I don't like the name calling, especially when I allow myself to get into it. It is unkind, and that is not how I want to live. You want to criticize Trump? Fine. I'll join you in some of it, but I won't call him or anyone else "Dufus". I will respect him for the office he holds the same way I did Obama. Just spare us the holier than thou idea that having voted for Obama and then Clinton somehow puts a person a rung higher up the moral ladder than the rest of us. They are every bit as dirty as he is. Dems don't like admitting that, but it's true, so try coming down here with the rest of us and admit that politics is generally a dirty business. I don't think it has to be, but there is a lot of money and power involved, and with people being prone to weakness, selfishness, and sin, it just frequently goes in that direction. I voted for Trump because I believed he would appoint SCOTUS judges that would not legislate from the bench and give us abortion on demand and compulsory participation in gay marriage. I hope he will build the wall. I hope he will bring sanity to the budget process. We'll see how that goes. At any rate, those are issues. You can disagree with them and that's fine, but don't act like you voted for saints because that's not true and I think you know that. Even if you don't, you are not a looney left winger. Wrong, but that's about it.

If I'm wrong show me. That's why we're here.

I asked this: NOT a fact but a lie since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY. Look it up! I did but you didn't. He sent out Susan Rice on five Sunday morning talk shows shortly after to say it was NOT an act of terror. How do you explain that???

Your answer is to talk about riots that occurred at other embassies. But the question is why did the president call it an act of terror "that following Monday", but then later sent out Susan Rice to say it was NOT an act of terror. As usual, you did not answer the question. So I'll ask it again. How could it be an act of terror one day, but simply be a spontaneous mob action several days later?

The answer is painfully obvious. Mr. Obama lied. You can't bring yourself to admit that. Fast and Furious was, to you, merely inept. That people died does not bother you in the slightest. Why? Because you can't come to the place of admitting that your beloved president was dirty, just like Trump. The significant difference is that Mr. Trump has not managed to get anyone killed yet.

So it all comes down to issues. I prefer Trump on the issues. I'm not going to call people names just because I don't like them or disagree with them.

Here are the charges against Manafort. It plainly states they are issues which occurred prior to 2016 and concerned money paid to him for services rendered, over many years, to the Ukrainians. He did not report this income to the feds. Read it for yourself.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=4883167-Manafort-D-C-Superseding-Criminal-Information

Item 12 under the heading of The Scheme clearly states he was operating his criminal activities from 2006-2017 INCLUSIVE. If you recall he defrauded the Chicago bank after the election. In addition he pleaded to all 18 counts in the first trail, though he was only convicted on 8, and all the charged counts he was indicted on in the second trial. So parse it any way you want since the bottom line is Manafort and Gates worked for the campaign while they were involved in criminal activities together.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/09/14/paul-manafort-plea-deal-muellers-team/1288931002/



The charges replace a raft of separate accusations that Manafort had failed to register as a foreign agent, lied to the government, laundered money and committed fraud. In a court filing Friday, Mueller's office said Manafort laundered more than $30 million from his work for Yanukovych, then "used his hidden overseas wealth to enjoy a lavish lifestyle in the United States." The criminal conduct continued through 2017.

I really don't understand why you are trying to separate this international criminal from the campaign when clearly he was there for nefarious purposes and criminal intent that was ongoing as I have always said. There will be a lot more on this and more wrongdoing brought to light by Mueller you can bet on it. The Dufus has surrounded himself with crooks trying to enrich themselves and they are going to jail. If they had not been caught they would still be doing it.

As for your Benghazi claims you can look it up yourself and imagine if you will the actual events of Sept. 11, 2012 when the riots, protests, and demonstration were occurring across the globe at US embassies, at the same time as Benghazi was happening. I don't understand why you take this as an isolated incident when the links I provided was quite clear in the real time facts despite those who are stuck on one event which I fully acknowledge as tragic. I think all who give their lives in service of the country is profoundly tragic.

I don't agree at all that Obama is as dirty as the Dufus. You would like it to be so just to justify your dislike of dems in favor of republicans. I get that tribal partisanship, but we are a nation of laws, process and procedures and that's where things like this are settled, whether we like it or not. We just have to wait what else comes of Mueller's investigation, and what a court of law decides don't we.

So I'll ask the question again since you still won't answer it. If Obama said it was an act of terror the day following, as you stated he did, and then sent out Susan Rice days later to say it was NOT an act of terror, then how do you explain that? If you are saying he was confused the day following, then I can get that. But he wasn't confused when he sent Rice to lie to the American public. How do you explain that?

As for Manafort, the political aspect of it occurred prior to 2016. The part you referred to concerned money laundering. As of this morning, there is absolutely no connection to the Trump campaign. That might show up, and if it does we will have to see what it consists of, but there is absolutely nothing at this point.

"I really don't understand why you are trying to separate this international criminal from the campaign when clearly he was there for nefarious purposes and criminal intent that was ongoing as I have always said." That is not clear at all. There is no criminal connection between Manafort and the Trump campaign that has been established. Zero. Nothing.

So I'll ask the question again since you still won't answer it. If Obama said it was an act of terror the day following, as you stated he did, and then sent out Susan Rice days later to say it was NOT an act of terror, then how do you explain that? If you are saying he was confused the day following, then I can get that. But he wasn't confused when he sent Rice to lie to the American public. How do you explain that?

That's not what I said nor what happened. Susan Rice went on the Sunday shows first with limited knowledge and she said so, but referenced the other global events around all the embassies and Obama addressed the nation from the rose garden that Monday. Did you bother to read the links? If I can find the sources I used back then from The Israeli news feeds, Al Jazeera and the BBC, I'll post them.



As for Manafort, the political aspect of it occurred prior to 2016. The part you referred to concerned money laundering. As of this morning, there is absolutely no connection to the Trump campaign. That might show up, and if it does we will have to see what it consists of, but there is absolutely nothing at this point.


There is enough for suspicion and a warrant, but we'll see huh?


"I really don't understand why you are trying to separate this international criminal from the campaign when clearly he was there for nefarious purposes and criminal intent that was ongoing as I have always said." That is not clear at all. There is no criminal connection between Manafort and the Trump campaign that has been established. Zero. Nothing.


Manafort, Dufus Jr, and Kushner all attended a meeting with reps from the Russian government in Trump Towers. They have the email that states they knew who they were meeting with. Lets see Manafort, international criminal, and campaign manager too the boys working for daddy and daddy in law to a meeting with Russians and you cannot connect those dot as kind of suspicious, and daddy knows nothing? OKAY got it.

That's not what I said nor what happened. Susan Rice went on the Sunday shows first with limited knowledge and she said so, but referenced the other global events around all the embassies and Obama addressed the nation from the rose garden that Monday. Did you bother to read the links? If I can find the sources I used back then from The Israeli news feeds, Al Jazeera and the BBC, I'll post them.

The attack occurred on 9/11. Mr. Obama referred to it, sort of, as an "act of terror" the following day (9/12) in the Rose Garden. Rice appeared on 5 Sunday programs on 9/16 to say it was a spontaneous mob action spurred by a video they found to be offensive, which of course was not true. I'm not sure where you are getting your timeline from. Several weeks later Mr. Obama claimed in a presidential debate that he had, in fact, referenced it as an "act of terrorism", which was a pretty weak claim when you go back and read the quotes. What Susan Rice said was absolutely untrue. You try to excuse that by saying they had incomplete knowledge. That is also a pretty weak claim.

This is your quote I referred to. "since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY."

Seems I did get my dates a bit mixed up, but no excuse for your head to explode.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/may/04/cokie-roberts/cokie-roberts-susan-rice-didnt-put-whole-benghazi-/

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/22/us/politics/explanation-for-benghazi-attack-under-scrutiny.html

This Friday night special NY Slimes Rosenstein story is vintage Trump- Russia by the so called gate keeper publications of record.designed to be just in time fodder for the Sunday morning talk shows ……. Immediately upon publication, it's breathlessly treated as The Story, the ultimate proof, the breaking point. Then it simmers, people read it, consider what it says, then it evaporates into a light steam.https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/us/politics/rod-rosenstein-wear-wire-25th-amendment.html

You knew it would be something to change the narrative from the Kavanaugh hearings. Speculating about Rosenstein conspiring against the dufus would do it.

Trump is doing a good job derailing Kavenaugh all on his own , If he pissed off Collins enough he could lose the Senate majority . When the Dems should consider is that there are much more conservative constructionist judges on Trumps short list than Kavanaugh . They should consider that he is the best they will get.

Right wing heads will explode if Kavanaugh isn't confirmed, and may put the senate in play for the dems this fall, but I doubt anything stops the purge coming in the DOJ, and that may be just the start.

The purge that is coming is needed .
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I agree. Between the elections, Muellers investigations, and the New York AG we should purge the stink of the Dufus administration and his sycophants.

Wrapping it up ? Supposedly some of his investigators are being let go . The only recent news is that he has been showing Roger Stone emails to people asking for their reaction.

I think Mueller will be back after the election.

nah time to show his cards . I just think he has nothing except some old crimes from people Trump hired . The ace in the hole was Papadopoulos and those bread crumbs led no where.
Papadopoulos is only important to the story because Joseph Mifsud saw him for the sucker patsy he was ,feeding him fiction to set up a pretext to get a FISA Court surveillance warrant so the Dems could spy on the Trump campaign.

I guess the slimes got it wrong about the Dufus empire being full of fraud and corruption and they didn't need Coffee boy to spy on the dufus to say so.

How did you reach that conclusion?

What other conclusion could you come to when you elect a corrupt con man to run your country? The dufus carried off one heckuva coup to the incompetent repub party. They effectively have all the power to do whatever they please.

I think there is something there . The Slimes is suspect because I think they have been holding on to this until the perfect time to attempt to influence the mid-terms . This tax thing will now take center stage after their failed attempt to keep Kavanaugh off the bench ;and the revelation today that the FBI lied about how they got the Steele Dossier.

The narrative has been that Evita's campaign paid for it through an intermediary ....the law firm Perkins Coie .They paid Steele and he created the dossier . That in turn got handed over to the FBI .They used the unverified dossiers as the main evidence to get FISA Court warrants to spy on the Trump campaign .

Turns out that FBI general counsel James Baker sat in meetings at Perkins Coie coordinating the activities . Baker met yesterday with lawmakers and pretty much confirmed the charge . Baker could not answer some questions about FBI media contacts, citing an ongoing investigation by the Justice Department inspector general into illegal leaks during and after the election.

These revelations illustrate how much the FBI and Justice Department have withheld from the public about their collaboration and collusion with the Clinton campaign ,the DNC, Fusion and Steele.

I just have to ask, are we there yet?

We may yet get there Clete, once Tom reveals his sources to his stories, or not.

which story ? That chief FBI council James Baker coordinated with Perkins Coie ? It is indisputable.

How about the whole thing... all the stories you put forth. In full disclosure, I have read all the right wing loonies accounts, and yours match very closely, but what I was more interested in that the Steele dossier was the only source of probable cause, and the political aspects where not disclosed. As a matter of law, even if it was used for probable cause in the first warrant, it surely cannot stand alone to be reauthorized by that judge let alone 2 subsequent ones after.

That's right wing loony ignorance and dufus and his sycophant narrative.

Any objective judge worth his salt is going to ask the FBI where they got the dossier and how it was is verified . That did not happen and I won't believe otherwise until we see the unredacted 302's It is a fact that Baker was the FBI contact with David Corn . Now he testified to Congress that he coordinated with Perkins Coie and it is clear that he coordinated the FBI efforts in discrediting candidate Trump for Evita and the emperor .

So those FISA judges were not objective or stupid, and no way was the targets of those being investigated dubious in their dealings? Some theory but little EVIDENCE as one other forum member is fond of saying. Maybe when Mueller is done we will see more. You do understand it's an ongoing active investigation. The litigants can always appeal if there was wrong doing in the way the FBI or Mueller made their cases.

Let's tie the 2 big stories together . Andrew Miller was subpoenaed by Mueller to testify against Roger Stone. He hired a constitutional attorney named Paul Kamenar who is challenging the constitutional legitimacy of Special Council Mueller in an appeals court .Andrew Miller v. United States

)
According to Kamenar, there are only two constitutionally permissible options for Special Counsel to have been appointed . An officer can be nominated by the President .Or Congress may create a law to skip over the nomination and confirmation process, and to vest the appointment of inferior officers in the President alone, in the court, or in the heads of departments, like an Attorney General.
Mueller as you know was appointed by deputy AG Rosenstein . Kamenar says a Deputy AG does not have the power to appoint inferior officers.

Rosenstein relied on authority that he claimed was vested in him under laws written by Congress to govern the powers of the AG. But that power " to appoint an inferior officer" is not listed in any of the laws written by Congress.





Not only that ;under no one's rules is Rosenstein an "acting AG. By law he can only become and acting AG if the AG resigns ,or dies ,or is fired etc . Sessions is still AG . I'm guessing that the court will have to decide if his recusal satisfies the letter of the law .According to the argument ;only Sessions has the power to appoint a special council.

This case is in the DC Circuit Court and could end up in SCOTUS .
A win for Kamenar could invalidate all of Mueller's work including all previous prosecutions. Oral arguments are scheduled for November 8, 2018.

The dufus has already appointed his 5th vote so he should be good to go after this weekend. I guess he solved that problem. Now he can fire everybody like he wanted to from jump street.

not until after the elections .

Why wait?

Go SOX!

split in Fenway ;sweep in the Bronx.

https://www.mlb.com/cut4/aaron-judge-plays-new-york-new-york-at-fenway/c-297305406

Jim Comey - Fired
Andy McCabe - Under Grand Jury investigation
Peter Strzok- Fired
Bruce Ohr- Demoted
Glenn Simpson - Pleading the 5th
Joseph Mifsud - Can’t be located
Downer - Keeps changing his story
Steele - Can’t verify his information

Russian woman charged with U.S. election interference through social media - Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-russian-woman-charged-with-election-interference-20181019-story.html)

And the Russian woman's father's name is... Donald Trump! So there you have it. He is guilty as charged. This Russian woman also has solid evidence against Judge Kavanaugh, so they have him dead to rights as well. She can also prove that Pres. Trump was responsible for the Benghazi disaster and the anemic economic growth under Pres. Obama.

I don't know if they have enough evidence to prove all of that, never know, but they are indicting her with enough evidence in connection with attempting to affect THIS election.

You forgot the sarcasm font.

At last, the smoking gun, a Russian interfered with an election somewhere, sometime. And who is responsible for the actions of a Russian citizen? Why, the US of course, they dared to hold elections.

You forgot the sarcasm font.Very true.

I imagine every large country tries to influence elections. I know President Obama attempted to do so in Israel. It should come as no surprise.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-20/judge-orders-mueller-prove-russian-company-meddled-election

Apparently it is not a crime to interfere in elections so the witchhunt has finally been shown to be a witchhunt

I know President Obama attempted to do so in Israel. It should come as no surprise. not to mention our blatant interference in Ukraine . It would be too long to document all the cases of US interferences in foreign elections ;including but not limited to assassinations and coups .

That doesn't mean you let a foreign dictator have his way against our country with utter impunity. A good watchdog is supposed to bark... and BITE when you get in his yard. So the Russians are going to court, big deal, it's just Mueller's move now. I doubt he is surprised at this event, nor unprepared as you guys think.

At least he will be able to put all the evidence he has against Trump in a thimble, so it won't weigh him down any.

Wishful thinking? Hopeful wishing? I see a lot of right wing heads exploding in the next few years. Be a good time to convert to the TRUTH, and stop holding your nose.

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/cache/lw600/167/16706/1670651.jpg

Well he may be right, but then less military spending and adventurism would ease the burden

Be a good time to convert to the TRUTH,

And just what truth are you referring to?

Hello again, tom:

Instead of starting another thread, I'd like your opinion.. What happens IF there's a red wave? What happens if we EMBRACE Donald Trump?? What happens if the Mueller probe is shut down? What happens if it's buried? What does the next 50 years look like??

It's certainly gonna be WAY different than the liberal America I grew up in.

excon

It's certainly gonna be WAY different than the liberal America I grew up in.

We can only hope.

We can only hope.

Hello again, j:

I dunno.. We completed the interstate highway system and ended segregation in the south. We went to the moon and won the Cold War. We passed the voting rights act and protected the environment.. We passed health care for all.. We had relatively free education, and a booming middle class for years upon years..

That all ended when Reagan came along..

excon

Greetings, Ex:

Uhm... when Reagan came along, the unemployment rate was 7% and inflation was 12%. Yeah, things were really great. You failed to mention the Vietnam War and the beginning of a welfare state that has been a disaster. You did not pass health care for all before or since Reagan. I will give liberals credit for progress with civil rights, but the interstate highway system? It was started by, and named after, President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was not exactly a famous liberal. Going to the moon was a nationwide effort and was hardly the exclusive domain of liberals. Won the Cold War? That's a funny one. The Cold War was "won" during, and due to, the Reagan admin. Then there is that famous liberal Barack Obama who doubled the national debt.

The SS and Medicare scare is a worn out ploy that hasn't worked for the Dems for years. They have NOTHING to do with the deficit except for the fraud the government has been doing for decades by defrauding the taxpayers adding the revenue into the general funds instead of holding it in a separate account. Let's face facts ;you know and I know that both programs are insolvent ;and will be getting worse . You know and I know that the solutions that we will be offered is going to suck and both sides are positioning to blame the other side when the sh+t hits the fan .

the interstate highway system? It was started by, and named after, President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was not exactly a famous liberal.

Hello again, j:

I wasn't speaking about liberals, per se.. I was speaking about liberal governance.

excon

So Ex, what exactly is liberal governance?

Ex I have no intention of embracing Trump . But what is right is right ;and it is clear to me that the Mueller probe is more a symptom of the governing class doing a soft coup against an outsider who won the election.

I don't think much will change or has changed .Trump plans on spending more on infrastructure than the Dems ever dreamed of . You want bridges ,airports roads , then Trump is your man . The Republicans have all but abandoned fiscal responsibility and if they lose the House it will be because the Republican base will be holding them to account . They can't out Dem the Dem so I don't understand why they are trying . Trump ;except for taxes and deregulation has been more liberal than many liberals . He promised to support a $ trillion infrastructure plan and I have no doubt that without resistance from the right ,he'll get that through .

He wants guaranteed paid leave .That is a Dem idea .

btw there is no such thing as 'free health care and free education . Someone pays it .But that word free sells well in campaign rhetoric . It is more likely that Trump ,who actually supports a form of universal health care ,would work with the Dems to carve out a bill. Anyone who actually listens to him knows that he constantly rhetorically takes on big pharma and insurance companies . Both Trump and the Dems are very critical of drug pricing . He accused them of 'getting away with murder' .He wants the drug companies to disclose the price of the drug in their advertisements . If allowed he will enact reforms in health care involving pricing and access.

He has come out in support of a so called path to citizenship for illegals who were brought in as children ,very similar to the Dems "dreamer " plan .

He sided with many of the libs like Bolshevik Bernie and Elizabeth Warren in opposing the TPP trade deal and followed through by withdrawing from it .

He has signed legislation designed to promote women in the areas of science ,technology ,engineering and math . He signed
the "Promoting Women In Entrepreneurship Act." The law authorizes the National Science Foundation to support entrepreneurial programs for women.He signed an EO for a $200 million a year education grants for woman and minorities interested in science.

I don't think that the Cold War was won at all because we completely blew it after the wall came down. Putin gained power because we did not support democracy in Russia . All the rhetoric about Trump being a Putin puppet is shear nonsense . He has been been more hardline against Russia than any post cold war President. That is just a fact . He's expanded sanctions ;war gamed right on Russia's borders and we now have US troops and weapons systems in nations like Poland and the Baltics states . He has taken on Russia in Syria ,actions that resulted in the loss of at least 200 Russian 'green shirt ' army troops .
On two separate occasions, he ordered expulsions of Russian diplomats stationed in the United States. He closed down 3 Russian facilities . He has sent weapons to support Ukraine ,including 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles . If Putin did meddle in the US elections ,he is not getting what he bargained for .

Liberal governance, first you have to define liberal, liberal is not socialism, it is a sense of social justice, equality for all , doesn't that phrase turn up somewhere in your national psyche
and upholding conservative values. Governance has some sense of morality attached to it

Liberal governance is
securing the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government. That hasn't happened in this country in a century .

Liberal governance is letting people pursue their freedom while effectively protecting and defending the constitution of the USA! That might happen if the rich dudes kept their hands of our government.

Tal, that's not going to happen, the more of them you get the more they will make their capitalist utopia and screw the masses

So when the government takes my money to give to another person, in what way is it protecting my freedom and defending the Constitution?

So when the government takes my money to give to another person, in what way is it protecting my freedom and defending the Constitution? you see the cr@p sandwich the Dems are proposing ? In addition to this Medicare for all freebee Sen Harris is proposing just cutting a check for $500 /month to everyone within the means level she decides . Sen Booker came out with a 'baby bonds' plan where everyone on the day of their birth gets a $1000 payout from the government to be held by the government invested in "safe " low yield "investments" aka government securities (?) . Then every year additional funds would be added based on the family means . The government would hold on to this money until that person reaches 18 .

The Dems platform seems to be
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxI6NXdErhOIfhEPga6ax59-EwvJ6bYDvFI5Hq5HrYiofAqyo6

The great tragedy is not so much the giveaway programs that dems love so much. The great tragedy is not even having the idea that money grows on trees, so we can spend, spend, spend and never have to exercise any discipline or restraint. We have passed 21 tril in federal debt with no slow down in sight. No, the great tragedy is that the American people have become so stupid that it does not bother us. Republicans and democrats alike, we are all content to sit around and worry about whether the NFL players are going to kneel again to protest an almost non-existent problem. It is going to catch up to us, and probably sooner rather than later. It is just amazing to me how we are throwing away what God has blessed us with. I would happily support a bill that makes it illegal for any congressman to propose spending without a corresponding means of paying for it, and as a penalty that person would be caned in public in front of the Washington Monument. That would stop it. Honestly, I think it would take that.

What part of mortgaging your future don't you understand? You don't give to this generation you demand this generation work for its future and you provide the means by which they can work

I have no idea what you are suggesting we do. We demand this generation work, yet we are to provide the means by which they can work? What "means" are you referring to? Mortgaging the future? That is usually thought to be a bad thing. Is that your meaning?

I have no idea what you are suggesting we do. We demand this generation work, yet we are to provide the means by which they can work? What "means" are you referring to? Mortgaging the future? That is usually thought to be a bad thing. Is that your meaning?

Clete means running up the deficit so rich guys get mo' money is a mortgage on your kids future. It is the job of government to make the means that we can all work, and be happy and maintain a healthy environment.

Universal healthcare would save everybody money, and it's a proven job creator. Closing rich guy tax loopholes would put more money in circulation for everybody, and an infrastructure project brings so many jobs that you may have to have those immigrants in huge numbers to do it, because your fat lazy kids are too good to get their hands dirty.

Repoobs who run everything the government does haven't solved any problems, or done anything but make the rich richer, and the poor poorer, and JL is pissed they take his money and give it to somebody else. Ask your local rich guy where your money is, cause them poor people you take food to sure as heck ain't got it.

I'll bet the Dufus can tell you where your money is. He has ridden the rich guy gravy train all his life, and so have his kids. Even Tom has told you how crooked the dude has been and I believe him. Some choice to run our government.

Clete means running up the deficit so rich guys get mo' money is a mortgage on your kids future

How on earth does deficit spending get more money to rich people? You could take the entire income of the top 1% in taxes and we would STILL have deficit spending. The problem is over spending.


Universal healthcare would save everybody money, and it's a proven job creator. Closing rich guy tax loopholes would put more money in circulation for everybody, and an infrastructure project brings so many jobs that you may have to have those immigrants in huge numbers to do it, because your fat lazy kids are too good to get their hands dirty.

Just absolute fantasy. Universal healthcare is government provided, and when have you ever known the feds to spend money efficiently? As for government sponsored infrastructure projects, just go back to the money squandered by the Obama people with the so called "stimulus money" and so how well that went. The feds always, always waste money. Your thinking is just clouded by your jealousy of rich people. There is no Constitutional mandate for the feds to force rich people to take care of JL and Tal. If we want it, we need to get off our rear ends and go get it. I hope to never count on other people to take care of me. That's my job.

Universal healthcare would save everybody money,

because it works so well with the VA

How on earth does deficit spending get more money to rich people? You could take the entire income of the top 1% in taxes and we would STILL have deficit spending. The problem is over spending.

That does include the tax cuts to those 1%ers doesn't it? The economy is booming according to the dufus but instead of a HUGE infrastructure bill, he cuts taxes so blame the guy who you held your nose to vote for, for his deficit overspending. Naw you just can't wrap your head around fiscal facts.


Just absolute fantasy. Universal healthcare is government provided, and when have you ever known the feds to spend money efficiently? As for government sponsored infrastructure projects, just go back to the money squandered by the Obama people with the so called "stimulus money" and so how well that went. The feds always, always waste money. Your thinking is just clouded by your jealousy of rich people. There is no Constitutional mandate for the feds to force rich people to take care of JL and Tal. If we want it, we need to get off our rear ends and go get it. I hope to never count on other people to take care of me. That's my job.

No it's not and as usual you have no clue about facts. For one it works EVERYWHERE else because it cuts out the middle man and controls PRICES. The other fact is it's voluntary since if you want your own private insurance then go buy it. As far as those stimulus money projects, you and Tom can always come to Texas and see how it was used and drive on our super highways. At least Google what your state did before you blast it as a waste. FACTS MATTER!

https://www.thebalance.com/what-was-obama-s-stimulus-package-3305625

Glad your doing well and hope that continues. Probably help if you covered your ears while you hold your nose when the dufus fills your head with loony gobble-d-goop. You actually think he and his sycophants are working for you? I truly hate to see your head explode when you grasps the truth.

Universal healthcare would save everybody money,

because it works so well with the VA

If the health care system in the US is a monstrosity, then you think the VA would be different?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/in-what-ways-is-the-us-he_b_12849148



Providers therefore essentially have gotten used to a world in which everyone can raise prices by 5-10% every year, and in which insurers largely mark up those rising unit costs by a constant 15% administrative margin, and in which this then all gets passed on to us.


Of course repoobs who love rich capitalists you call free marketeers, want to repeal Obamacare and go back to that model.

the system previous to Obamacare was not free market . That was it's biggest failure . Anyway I answered Ex's question . Not much changes after Mueller. You guys are going to have to face facts that he found no evidence of either "collusion"with Russia or obstruction . So you can put away your Mueller bobble heads .


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/42AAAOSw6VRbDEkf/s-l640.jpg

and your Mueller super hero comics .
https://images.dailykos.com/images/442147/story_image/MuellerTime.jpg?1503929423 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwijnOPctp3eAhVBc98KHYiVDBQQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2017% 2F9%2F1%2F1695373%2F-HFS-Mueller-has-first-draft-of-Comey-you-re-fired-letter&psig=AOvVaw28HW9DuCMEvgB3DEhh3crW&ust=1540413793681653)

Mueller's job isn't to prove collusion, it was to uncover the full extent of Russian election interference. Not his fault he found lying and cheating amongst the Dufus's campaign crew or other wrongdoing along the way. You don't think the flunkies for the dufus will turn on some of his wrong doing? Maybe NOT, but you don't cooperate and get plea deals unless you have SOMETHING to negotiate with.

And the law prosecutes conspiracy not collusion, and we will see about the obstruction, but taking the word of a lying cheating dufus that he is innocent is not a smart play I don't think, as maybe all the facts have yet to be revealed. I can wait for Mueller to clear the foul mouth bully of those allegations, if for not some other wrong doing that has been turned over to other jurisdictions for continued investigations. I hear Roger Stone is the next one under scrutiny, and of course he denies everything like the others did, and would never roll over on the dufus (His words not mine), so maybe you should keep that bobblehead a bit longer just in case it's value goes way up in the near future like after the midterm vacation he has been on.



the system previous to Obamacare was not free market . That was it's biggest failure

It was a rip off like all the other free market solutions that rich guys make revenue streams from, and rigged at that.

I have no idea what you are suggesting we do. We demand this generation work, yet we are to provide the means by which they can work? What "means" are you referring to? Mortgaging the future? That is usually thought to be a bad thing. Is that your meaning?

You clearly don't understand, you say you demand the generation work, how? How many unemployed kids do you see painting rocks white or removing rubbish, same goes for unemployed adults. You look at some marvellous unemployment statistic and say that you have demanded the generation work, it is an illusion otherwise Trump couldn't have appealed to the unemployed and won.

Yes mortgaging the future by spending more than the revenue you have is a bad thing, printing money is a bad thing. How do you stop it, start by cutting off your over bloated military and correcting the structure of your economy

You clearly don't understand, you say you demand the generation work, how? How many unemployed kids do you see painting rocks white or removing rubbish, same goes for unemployed adults. You look at some marvellous unemployment statistic and say that you have demanded the generation work, it is an illusion otherwise Trump couldn't have appealed to the unemployed and won.

Unemployment at 3.7%. Yeah, if you want a job, you can get one. In fact, you can work all you want.

Painting rocks white? I haven't seen that.


Yes mortgaging the future by spending more than the revenue you have is a bad thing, printing money is a bad thing. How do you stop it, start by cutting off your over bloated military and correcting the structure of your economy

Overspending is a problem and the military is a problem, so we agree on a lot of that. Correct the structure of an economy that has produced 3.7% unemployment? Why?

Tal, I'm glad to hear you say that facts matter. You should try using a few.

Tal, I'm glad to hear you say that facts matter. You should try using a few.


I'm not Tal, you are confused because you listen to Trump B/S, any politician can pull a good statistic out of his little box of tricks and say, see what I have done for you, but have a look at the underemployment statistic because the 3.7% only measures those looking for work, not those of employable age, it doesn't measure youth unemployment and to say anyone who wants a job can find one is fallacy, you have to be in the right place

Underemployment in 2017 was a staggering 12.5% that is over 30 million people and may actually be be much higher depending on whether you measure graduates in menial jobs

Underemployment in 2017 was a staggering 12.5% that is over 30 million people and may actually be be much higher depending on whether you measure graduates in menial jobs

Three questions. First, underemployment is not measured by the Bureau of Statistics, so where did you get your figure from? Second, there are about 130 million people employed full time in the U.S. so 12% of that would be nothing close to 30 million. How did you arrive at 30 million? Last, what was the underemployment rate in 2012?

According to this article, underemployment in Australia is even worse than here. "And it turns out that the U.S. may not be even the biggest offender: some of the world’s highest rates of underemployment are in Australia, or the land Down Under."

http://theunderemployedlife.com/australia-united-states-underemployment-theres-nothing-funny/

anyone who can pass a drug test can have 2 jobs . Unemployment rate would be higher if they factored in the labor participation rate . A bunch of wastrals have dropped out of the labor force opting to become permanent wards of the; very generous with other people's money ;nanny state .
Underemployment ? Shame on anyone in America who thinks they are underemployed . Get off your @ss and find a better job. There is plenty of work out there .There are still some regions that have not caught up ;but that shouldn't be a deterrent . Move to where the jobs are . That has always been the American way .

Mueller's job isn't to prove collusion, it was to uncover the full extent of Russian election interference. yeah ok . tell me you won't be major disappointment if Mueller doesn't come back with something on Trump that Congress can use to impeach. That was his only mission. Sorry you will just have to live with the fact that a reality TV star beat a former Senator and Sec State ,and was not a secret sleeper cell KGB agent from the 80s. You will just have to face facts that Evita lost because she wasn't interested in doing the work in the states she needed to win ...or maybe she was too sick to do the work .

anyone who can pass a drug test can have 2 jobs . Unemployment rate would be higher if they factored in the labor participation rate . A bunch of wastrals have dropped out of the labor force opting to become permanent wards of the; very generous with other people's money ;nanny state .
Underemployment ? Shame on anyone in America who thinks they are underemployed . Get off your @ss and find a better job. There is plenty of work out there .There are still some regions that have not caught up ;but that shouldn't be a deterrent . Move to where the jobs are . That has always been the American way .

You have great attitude Tom , no compassion but great attitude, the old it is your fault you are poor sham. The economy is constantly changing and so people lack the skills to do what is required and must be retrained otherwise they are caught in the low wage spiral, get a job at minimum wage that is the capitalist answer, this is not a virtue, but exploitation. Get a degree so you have a PhD in street sweeping. The American way, the old Superman mantra, defending the American way

so go and retrain .The trolley driver had to learn how to drive a bus ;the draftsman had to learn to use a cad . The blacksmith had to find something else to do when transportation shifted from horses to autos . That is just the way it is . I retrained for more than one job since I joined the work force .I am not doing the same job as when I was ripping tickets in half at the theater or cooking short order ,or going to school to become public servant ,or managing a food service . When did stocking shelves at Walmart become a lifetime permanent job unless that is the absolute very best you can do ? The answer is to do what is necessary after you've set realistic goals . If someone went to school to get a degree in a field where there are no opportunities then suck it up and retrain . The days of staying on the same job for a lifetime ;and having your children's prospects being to take your place on the job are long gone and thank God for that ! If you want to say I lack compassion because I speak reality then I'm good with that .

Unemployment is down to under 4%, so people have to find something else to complain about. We live in what might be the greatest land of opportunity on the planet. We live in what is probably the most prosperous period ever experienced on the earth. Anyone who wants a job can have one, two, three, whatever. If you are willing to work and learn, then you can make progress. But since everything is not perfect, then we continue to complain. Well OK, things could be better in some areas, but right now the economy is great. If you don't agree with this idea that we need to keep on complaining, then you are said to be lacking in compassion.

so go and retrain .The trolley driver had to learn how to drive a bus ;the draftsman had to learn to use a cad . The blacksmith had to find something else to do when transportation shifted from horses to autos . That is just the way it is . I retrained for more than one job since I joined the work force .I am not doing the same job as when I was ripping tickets in half at the theater or cooking short order ,or going to school to become public servant ,or managing a food service . When did stocking shelves at Walmart become a lifetime permanent job unless that is the absolute very best you can do ? The answer is to do what is necessary after you've set realistic goals . If someone went to school to get a degree in a field where there are no opportunities then suck it up and retrain . The days of staying on the same job for a lifetime ;and having your children's prospects being to take your place on the job are long gone and thank God for that ! If you want to say I lack compassion because I speak reality then I'm good with that .

Yes Tom we have all done that, some of us are multiskilled, but not everyone

then that is their lot in life . I'm saying there is a whole big incentive there IF the government doesn't provide such a cushy safety net. For MANY prime age people in this country there is no incentive to change their situation . Prime age people instead have been taking advantage of the very lenient requirements for eligibility for disability status . The rate of prime age people not returning to the workforce is alarming ,and it has absolutely nothing to do with skill set or alleged disability . It is a very deliberate choice to eat out of the trough of other productive people's efforts.

then that is their lot in life . I'm saying there is a whole big incentive there IF the government doesn't provide such a cushy safety net. For MANY prime age people in this country there is no incentive to change their situation . Prime age people instead have been taking advantage of the very lenient requirements for eligibility for disability status . The rate of prime age people not returning to the workforce is alarming ,and it has absolutely nothing to do with skill set or alleged disability . It is a very deliberate choice to eat out of the trough of other productive people's efforts.

Of course you have data to back that up? I trust you Tom but it's that verify thing from King Reagan that has always stuck with me. I mean JL is giddy over the unemployment numbers and you say young people are too lazy to work, and half the country is below the poverty line.

As I remember there is nothing cushy about poverty.

How would you explain that the share of the population ages 16 to 64 claiming disability benefits from Social Security rose from 0.45 percent in 1960 to 4.42 percent in 2013 even as work got less strenuous and disabling ?

Of course you have data to back that up? I trust you Tom but it's that verify thing from King Reagan that has always stuck with me. I mean JL is giddy over the unemployment numbers and you say young people are too lazy to work, and half the country is below the poverty line

Tal, you might want to try that data stuff yourself. Your claim of 50% poverty rate is ludicrous. Actual figure is closer to 12%.

As to the unemployment figures, if Obama had ever gotten to 3.7%, you libs would have worshiped him even more than you did.

How would you explain that the share of the population ages 16 to 64 claiming disability benefits from Social Security rose from 0.45 percent in 1960 to 4.42 percent in 2013 even as work got less strenuous and disabling ?

This might shed some light on it Tom,

https://www.disability-benefits-help.org/blog/why-are-social-security-disability-claims-rise



Tal, you might want to try that data stuff yourself. Your claim of 50% poverty rate is ludicrous. Actual figure is closer to 12%.

As to the unemployment figures, if Obama had ever gotten to 3.7%, you libs would have worshiped him even more than you did.

Screwed up didn't I? My bad, but the unemployment rate was going down under Obama though you give the dufus all the credit, and of course he takes it. I am sure that data trend is correct. Obama left the dufus a very strong economy considering where he started from, and I am sure you agree but worship is really the wrong word. Respect, admire, may be more accurate. If the dufus wasn't such a gloomy racist that lies all the time he might get some play from me.

Just cannot hold my nose and tolerate his behavior.

My bad, but the unemployment rate was going down under Obama though you give the dufus all the credit, and of course he takes it.

See what I mean? You like to talk about low unemployment as long as you think you can give Mr. Obama all the credit. Truth is, Obama is the only two term pres ever who did not have a single quarter of at least 3% GDP growth. Economic genius for sure. And before anyone wants to start talking about the terrible economy that he inherited, go back and look at what Reagan inherited. It was worse, but he started a great economic revival.


If the dufus wasn't such a gloomy racist that lies all the time he might get some play from me.

I really hate the casual way that libs throw around accusations of racism. Don't need any evidence, but just want to make the accusation. It's sickening. And, of course, you voted for someone who had quite a problem in being caught in lies, but I guess it's OK as long as that person is a democrat. Like I have said a hundred times now, it's all about politics. If you like abortion, open borders, give-away programs, and unrestricted marriage arrangements, then you vote democrat.

I don't give Obama all the credit, but he does deserve a huge chunk for his efforts, along with the congress who worked with him as well as the ACA. Now you can ignore, compare, or whatever but you cannot deny him his due. I have also written here before about the flexibility that Reagan showed back in those days dealing with his own recessionary challenges, along with his congress at the time. Just a matter of credit due.

No I do not use the racist label casually, nor the lying, cheater label, but his own words usually nail him.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/trump-nationalist-gop-violence.html



A president wouldn’t encourage criminal violence against innocent people. If he did, his party wouldn’t stand for it. Actually, it would. Trump has been testing the GOP’s tolerance for demagoguery that explicitly promotes brutality. And so far, Republicans seem willing to go along.
https://thegrio.com/2018/10/24/trump-nationalism-xenophobia-dangerous/



As with most things, Trump has the facts and origins of the word “nationalist” completely wrong. The word isn’t “old fashioned” as he declared but instead steeped in racism and xenophobia which is why people don’t casually use it as a means of self-identification. Where the public often gets confused is with the difference between nationalism and patriotism.


This isn't the first time either that he has exhibited racist behavior, words, or sympathies either, and not the first time I have called him a racist. He seems to have a history of it. He sickens ME!

Sooner or later you will realize I have moved well beyond Clintons defeat.



If you like abortion, open borders, give-away programs, and unrestricted marriage arrangements, then you vote democrat.


The issues are more nuanced and complex than you seem to present or understand, so I will just offer this as rebuttal, if you can hold your nose and vote for a lying, cheating, racist dufus then you have little room to belittle dems whose positions you sorely misrepresent. I could easily say if you like lying cheating racists you vote repoob!

But I won't.

How would you explain that the share of the population ages 16 to 64 claiming disability benefits from Social Security rose from 0.45 percent in 1960 to 4.42 percent in 2013 even as work got less strenuous and disabling ?
Eligibility criteria and the society is more prone to drug addiction which brings disabling illness such as depression, also there are more poor people today. Disability has nothing to do with the nature of work other than performing certain tasks may not be possible. Computerisation may have done away with many jobs disabled might do as it will continue to do away with many repetitive tasks

Now you can ignore, compare, or whatever but you cannot deny him his due

Well of course I can! You routinely do it with Trump, so why not with Obama?


“You know what I am? I’m a nationalist, OK? I’m a nationalist,” he continued. “Nationalist. Nothing — use that word. Use that word.”

So putting America first is now equated with racism? Well, I have to admit that I'm relieved. If that ridiculous theory is the best you've got, then Trump is emphatically NOT a racist. But I'll have to admit that Mr. Obama was no nationalist. He could never have been accused of putting America first in anything. Sometimes I think that I'd love to see a national law that if a person accuses someone of racism with no more evidence than the flimsy silliness in the article you linked, they should be locked up in a dark, dim prison for about ten years. I know that's not reasonable, but I get tired of a lot of this nonsense. "Racism" is a word now with no real meaning. It has been destroyed by it's reckless usage.

It's right back to politics. I understand that people have differing political views, but when a person votes for the most inept, corrupt person to run for president that I know of, then I just don't think they have occupied the moral high ground and can therefore point fingers. Obama's presidency was riddled with scandal, but you think you somehow have the right to criticize Trump? It's a mystery to me.

also there are more poor people today.

When you are dealing with percentages, that has nothing at all to do with it.

Eligibility criteria and the society is more prone to drug addiction which brings disabling illness such as depression,..........Computerisation may have done away with many jobs disabled might do as it will continue to do away with many repetitive tasks

yes computerization eliminated some jobs opened up many others . That has always been the case with technological advance . AND since the jobs are less physically demanding there is less reason for the disabled to check out of the work force . You want to tell me there should be help in re training I'm all on board . But disability eligibility rules need to be tightened again from the emperor's social engineering tinkering . Why do you think there is an opioid addiction crisis in the country ? 50,000 people die in the US every year from opioid OD .......10,000 more than deaths at the height of the AIDS crisis .Yet it is barely reported . How many of the users are stay at home on government provided permanent disability benefits ? They have not been able to find any meaning to their lives so they check out . The government contributes to their down fall. It is a failed system that needs correction .

Your inane 'poor people' comment has been addressed . There was a slight uptick in the US poverty rate after dot com bust and the financial crisis ;but it is almost back down to 2000 levels ,about 11-12 % and being poor in the US is a much better lot than being poor in most of the rest of the world . Much of the poverty rate is tied into issues like single parent raising children .Poverty has fallen sharply among blacks and has risen slightly in the "Hispanic" communities because of immigration both legal and illegal . And of course those people who choose not to work are or become part of the poor.

The issues are more nuanced and complex than you seem to present or understand, actually no they are not . you just like to complicate them . As an example . If you are not for open borders then tell us what level of enforcement at the border you find acceptable . I have not heard a single Dem say anything to suggest they want any enforcement and instead a good percentage of the Congressional Dems are running on a platform of eliminating ICE . If you aren't for open borders then why promote sanctuary cities and states ?
Ex is the only libertarian progressive on this board who is honest on this subject . He proudly proclaims he wants open borders . Why don't you ?
What is amazing to me is that Trump offered a compromise ....a border wall for path to citizenship for so called "dreamers " . But your side in their hatred of Trump would not consider it .

Sadly, a hatred of Trump is what is at the core of all democratic policies. It has become completely irrational.

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/167/16715/1671529.gif

Thank you for that perfect example.

His words, his actions, his behavior, his history! He loves dictators and no American banks will loan him money so where does he get his money after all those bankruptcy's? Russia, Saudi Arabia maybe?

I hope they get that loony sending pipe bombs just to dems.

Oh, and you're welcome.

I hope they get that loony sending pipe bombs just to dems.

I'm betting it's a dem. Election year maneuvering.

could be . The Republicans have been saying 'Jobs vs Mobs' ;and the Dems hate it . But I'm willing to wait . 1st 3 reports are almost always wrong. So far the press reported that the White House was targeted ....wrong . They reported that il Duce Cuomo was targeted ....wrong.What he received was a letter with a flash drive . I suspect this is a prank either way . Not enough explosive in these to have effect ;but enough the be detected . They were addressed in such a way that anyone who received them would be suspicious . I'm sure the clown(s) that did this left scores of forensic clues and they will be caught in short order . Hey it gives the FBI something to do.

More than half of Americans receive more money in various types of government transfer payments (Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Social Security) than they pay in federal taxes.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-24/more-half-america-gets-more-welfare-it-pays-taxes

More than half of Americans receive more money in various types of government transfer payments (Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Social Security) than they pay in federal taxes.

That is not surprising considering that about half of American wage earners pay nothing in federal income tax, and many actually get money paid to them.

I can certainly see why repoobs don't want mandatory voting, and concoct all kinds of schemes to suppress voters and turn out.

Just think if voters could VOTE themselves a bail out without there being a recession, or some bureaucrat telling them there ain't no money unless you're already rich. Or some capitalists calling you names.

I would vote for me getting MO'MONEY! I can't afford taxes. Never could...they made me pay them...!

well that of course is the lure . But it is like Whimpy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30knrJBeyr0

Just pass it on to the next generation . That is how ponzi schemes normally work

Ex is the only libertarian progressive on this board who is honest on this subject . He proudly proclaims he wants open borders .

Hello again:

Well, if we didn't HAVE borders we wouldn't BE American, or Russian, or African. We'd just be people.. Most of the hatred going on in the world is because of BORDERS.. I say let's get rid of 'em. They've outlived their usefulness.

excon

I'll agree with you when you are ready to get rid of your property lines and let anyone in your house who wants to come in. It's the same thing. Property lines, door locks, border, they all serve the same purpose.

I'll agree with you when you are ready to get rid of your property lines and let anyone in your house who wants to come in. It's the same thing. Property lines, door locks, border, they all serve the same purpose.

Well why not have guards and check points at the city limits why don't you?

actually most of the hatred is over issues of ideology.

actually most of the hatred is over issues of ideology.

Ok I'll bite, what ideology do the migrants have that you object too? How do you know they have this ideology?

actually most of the hatred is over issues of ideology.
No, most of the hatred is fear of brown people, fear inspired by our president.

If the caravan was full of beautiful white women, cute white teen girls, and adorable white female children, there would be no problem. Our president would send hundreds of buses south to pick them up and house them in his hotels in the US.

I did not say there was any hatred in associated with this border issue at all . I was responding to Ex's specific comment that borders are the cause of " MOST of the hatred" in the world . As to the reason to opposing an unauthorized mass migration crossing the US border ,there are many reasons to oppose it that has nothing to do with race or ideology .

Clete you're so compassionate I'm sure you would have no issue with a mass migration to your nation . Maybe like Ex you don't believe in borders. Maybe you are ok with allowing anyone admission into your country .

WG I could care less why Trump oppose the so called 'caravan' . My issues is rule of law . Bum rushing the border is not the correct way to gain access to this country .

If the caravan was full of beautiful white women, cute white teen girls, and adorable white female children, there would be no problem. Our president would send hundreds of buses south to pick them up and house them in his hotels in the US.

Nope. They would be illegal aliens. That's what some of you don't get. Anybody and everybody cannot come into this country. There is a legal process involved. I know it's hard for some of you to believe that those of us who believe in the rule of law actually pay a lot of attention to the law and not very much to race, but it's true. I find that the people who obsess about race are actually the liberals. You attempt to turn everything into a racial issue, as your post illustrates.

I've seen more people bum rush Walmart's on Black Friday. I bet Walmart's could process those caravan people in no time no problem.

Nope. They would be illegal aliens. That's what some of you don't get. Anybody and everybody cannot come into this country. There is a legal process involved. I know it's hard for some of you to believe that those of us who believe in the rule of law actually pay a lot of attention to the law and not very much to race, but it's true. I find that the people who obsess about race are actually the liberals. You attempt to turn everything into a racial issue, as your post illustrates.

Liberals say process them humanly and quit with the over the top ideological rhetoric. Show us don't tell us. You got the power, so show me something other than the 1.2% in a falling steadily unemployment number.

I've seen more people bum rush Walmart's on Black Friday. I bet Walmart's could process those caravan people in no time no problem. this is true . But this is government at work and processing a single asylum seeker takes months . I doubt that most of them qualify for asylum status . You don't want families separated and you don't want children living with adults in detention centers .If they get housed in detention you call it a concentration camp. Do you want them just released in the country to go their own way ;to wander the streets ? Why don't you just admit like Ex that you are for NO border control and are an open border advocate ? Come on admit it !

My idea of border control differs greatly from yours probably and surely vastly different than the dufus. It may be closer to this idea,

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/7/2/17524908/asylum-family-central-america-border-crisis-trump-family-detention-humane-reform

I mean for the costs of a few air craft, or instead of a big beautiful wall, we can get more judges and asylum experts to actually process people through, without separating families and hiding kids. Then a bit of diplomacy instead of badgering we can move forward with a workable humane process and also give help and support to remedy the root cause of the migrant problem.

It's been done before and if the dufus wasn't so hard boiled and belligerent or didn't need an enemy to show how tough he is we could actually deal with this as an event, and not a crisis that scares the bejesus out of folks. It's not like we haven't dealt with it before, maybe not as perfect as some have wanted but way better than Thug Dufus!

I mean for the costs of a few air craft, or instead of a big beautiful wall, we can get more judges and asylum experts to actually process people through, without separating families and hiding kids. Then a bit of diplomacy instead of badgering we can move forward with a workable humane process and also give help and support to remedy the root cause of the migrant problem.

Dufus!

Let us just think for a moment Tal, what is the problem, it is a media generated problem, the hordes are invading whether they come from the east or the north or the south it is the same old mantra, but the horde isn't millions, you already have those, it is a few thousand unfortunates. You don't actually want to process their claims while they sit in camps on your border has would be done elsewhere in the world, you want to let them in because after all it is the humane thing to do. The way to deal with this event is to use the money for the aircraft carriers or the wall to actually do some good in the world, put some real aid, not tied aid into those countries, build some industries give them some real law and order and grow a back bone

We already have that tool but the dufus is to dumb and incompetent to use it, as I referenced. He would rather threaten to defund this policy than help it work.

https://www.state.gov/j/inl/rls/fs/2017/260869.htm

Like you said though there are only 7,000 people walking this way, we get that many people together for a Friday night high school football game... and they don't sell beer!

The dufus can exaggerate anything into a hyped up crisis in his blowhard fashion. He would rather pick fights with civil allies and helpless unfortunates than tell Vlad Kim, and Saud to screw off.

The way to deal with this event is to use the money for the aircraft carriers or the wall to actually do some good in the world, put some real aid, not tied aid into those countries, build some industries give them some real law and order and grow a back bone.

The fantasy world you live in must be a truly beautiful place. Building industries that give them law and order?? Growing backbones?? Go back to the beginning of our country. The law and order, the industry, the businesses, and the backbone came from the people who lived here. It is always that way. The idea that we can go in with our "Build a Country" kit is an old, tired, and failed idea.

or in Clete's world you find a remote island to park them .

tal your "solution "does not answer the question .If everyone is eligible to come into the country then in fact you don't believe in border control ;as I suspected .

We more that $ 127 million in aid to Honduras this year;almost $300 million to Guatemala ,almost $100 million to Mexico . Maybe we should do a "regime change " and install someone who gives more than a rat's @ss about the people .

or in Clete's world you find a remote island to park them .

tal your "solution "does not answer the question .If everyone is eligible to come into the country then in fact you don't believe in border control ;as I suspected .

I said process them humanely Tom. Them and everyone else. So we start with humane processors I would think.


We more that $ 127 million in aid to Honduras this year;almost $300 million to Guatemala ,almost $100 million to Mexico . Maybe we should do a "regime change " and install someone who gives more than a rat's @ss about the people .

I won't argue with that, just point out our past ventures from 'Nam to now. With our own political issues in full disarray, maybe we start at home with that regime thingy.

My issues is rule of law . Bum rushing the border is not the correct way to gain access to this country .Hello again, tom:

What makes you think bum rushing the border will WORK? It WON'T, of course. You needn't worry. The brown people WILL be kept at bay.

In terms of no borders, I'm NOT advocating that we rid ourselves of such things NOW.. I'm simply suggesting that the HISTORY of the world, is RIFE with borders having been torn down.. Sometime down the road, we'll find that we ARE one people, borders notwithstanding.. And, ONE people should have ONE government and ONE home..

And, I don't think ANY of that would cause a person to think that he could come into my home.. I just don't.. It's CIVILIZATION that keeps people from invading my home, NOT property lines..

This conversation reminds me of another one.. Some Christians believe that WITHOUT God, people will rob, rape, murder and cause general mayhem. Do you believe that??

excon

Yeah one of these days we'll live in that Star Trek world you imagine.


Some Christians believe that WITHOUT God, people will rob, rape, murder and cause general mayhem. Do you believe that?? No I'm sure that the laws of man keep some people in line . Amazingly most of those laws have religious foundations ;not necessarily Christian . I also see where some laws based interpretation of religion and religious tenet cause people to rape ,murder and cause general mayhem . Some of them don't believe in borders too.

Why do I think Bum rushing the border works ? Because we saw it happen here already .In fact under the emperor's reign the rate was somewhere between 300,000 -400,000 illegal entries a year.

This is a great site:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/us-immigration-trends

Seems migration patterns have ebbed and flowed.

I don't care about migrant patterns from the past . All I ask is that immigration law gets enforced . You want to change the law ? Let's discuss. That is why I have been asking what level of enforcement of the border would you accept IF you are not an open border person. I don't believe most progressives have any level of enforcement that they find acceptable . That is why they designate their towns ,cities ,States "sanctuary" . Let's have it . If there are MS13 members in the caravan should they be let in ? If there are child sex traffickers in the group should they be let in ? If Jimmy Morales decided to empty his prisons like Castro did during the Mariel boat lift should they be let in ?

If they are coming here and their claim is asylum and in fact they are coming here for the economic opportunity then they are not entitled to asylum status . That is just the way it is . My ancestors came here legally under whatever law at the time applied .

My ancestors came here legally under whatever law at the time applied .
Mine did too during the mid 1800s. There were very few immigration laws back then.

P.S. That's a terrific site, Tal!

My ancestors came here legally under whatever law at the time applied .


Most of mine did too, but some didn't want to come, but chains are pretty convincing.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/did-my-family-really-come-legally-todays-immigration-laws-created-a-new-reality



Many people assume that their family immigrated to the United States legally, or did it “the right way.” In most cases, this statement does not reflect the fact that the U.S. immigration system was very different in the past and that their families might not have been allowed to enter had today’s laws been in effect. When many families arrived in the United States, there were no numerical limitations on immigration, no requirements to have an existing family or employment relationship with someone in the country, and no requirement to obtain a visa prior to arriving. The definition of who is “legal”—and who is not—changes with the evolution of immigration laws. In some cases, claiming that a family came “legally” is simply inaccurate—unauthorized immigration has been a reality for generations.

like I said . They came here legally under the law of the land at the time . I have no interest in the law of the past . I want the laws of today enforced .

Me too! You can unlock these damn chains now!

Me too! You can unlock these damn chains now!

The only chains on now are the self-inflicted ones.

Show me yours I will show you mine but don't be offended if I don't take your word for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFv_v16Orqw

This is what my ancestors caravan looked like, as they came to America legally, respectfully, and were processed, vetted, given medical examinations and registered at a very orderly Ellis Island:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqiZXMAX0AESPPB.jpg

Nice pic but what's your point?

They did not come in a mile long mob brandishing their native flag . That's what invaders do. They have been offered asylum in Mexico . Why haven't they taken up that offer ?

As of today . Mueller has yet to charge a Trump associate with anything resembling election interference . I doubt that his charge against Concord will stand up either . Judge may dismiss outright. But then again Mueller never really thought this case would go to trial .He thought the Russians would be a no show .

What a load of, how would you describe it? B/S,

They did not come in a mile long mob brandishing their native flag . That's what invaders do. They have been offered asylum in Mexico . Why haven't they taken up that offer ?

Some very well might eventually but Euros immigrated under some very different circumstances to be sure, to this Euro dominated land. You weren't worried about being deported because you had peeps here already.


As of today . Mueller has yet to charge a Trump associate with anything resembling election interference . I doubt that his charge against Concord will stand up either . Judge may dismiss outright. But then again Mueller never really thought this case would go to trial .He thought the Russians would be a no show .

I got two words for ya' PLEA BARGAIN. They ALL take it on the condition of cooperation with the Mueller team. Gates faced similar charges that Manafort did, and PM has already been CONVICTED. Let Concord fight the charges against them, they can afford it, and are innocent until proved guilty. We will see what happens after silly season is over, and the states get their shots in.

Mueller isn't the only investigation going.

"Mueller isn't the only investigation going."




Yep. Maybe some day he will actually come up with some evidence against Trump.

Yeah, I guess nailing Russians means nothing. Nailing dufus campaign workers means NOTHING.

Basically, that's right. No evidence against Trump means no evidence against Trump. You democrats kind of struggle with that "evidence" thing.

There was no evidence against anyone until they found it through a well run investigation... which is ongoing.

But none against Trump. None. Zero. Nada. After 18 months and millions of dollars, nothing.

Ask Trey Gowdy about his years of investigations that resulted in millions of taxpayers dollars with NO results. At least Mueller banked 46 million confiscating Manafort's ill gotten gains. That should cover expenses rather nicely, as we await to find out if the dufus is implicated in conspiracy, obstruction or criminal activities, or NOT!

You can't say Mueller has nothing until he says he has NOTHING!

as we await

Indeed.

https://vtdigger.org/2018/10/31/vermont-law-school-professor-asked-smear-mueller/

I know you hate smearing a good mans reputation JL, so I thought this would interest you.

Check out
http://sportspeedia.com/

I have no sympathy for those who smear Mueller, even though I do fault him for selecting a staff almost completely composed of left wing investigators. Still, let the man do his job. If I did smear him, I would be like the pathetic demos who smeared Kavanaugh with no evidence at all. Remember how critical you were of them? No, wait. Actually, you were not critical at all.

It's all about politics, and not about honor.

Welcome aboard, Sharm!!

I never smeared Kavanaugh, but I blasted the repubs for the way they handled things. I have little doubt they limited the scope of that sham investigation though it wasn't surprising at all. However the deed is done isn't it?

Maybe dude was a party animal and a drunk and did a lot of stupid stuff back in the day, but you cannot ignore he may have traumatized a few people along the way with bad behavior, even if he can't remember or even cares.


Wonder who the next woman to come out will be to smear the GOP virgin golden boy's sterling reputation (When he wasn't incoherently DRUNK that is)?

No, you didn't smear him. Not you. Right.

That wasn't a smear, it was a commentary based on anecdotal testimony of people he went to school with, or his own words. Were there links supplied? I'm sure there was, with highlights in quotes as well. Unlike the dufus and his sycophants who just plain lie and corrupt the whole system. The Mueller investigation continues seemingly with Roger Stone as his next target.

That wasn't a smear, it was a commentary based on anecdotal testimony of people he went to school with

It always amuses me how you redefine terms to make it more convenient for you. There was no evidence the man was guilty, yet you said, "even if he can't remember or even cares." So you claimed the man did not care with no evidence at all to support that. That is what is known to practically everyone as a "smear".

I redefined NOTHING. Surely you are not saying he wasn't a hard drinking teen who did some dumb stuff, and evolved into a hard drinking frat boy? By definition a smear is a FALSE accusation. I said nothing false.

You said he didn't care. That is a false accusation for which you have no evidence.

"You believe Kavanaugh had a beer after the game? Probably had a case before and during."

You said he didn't care. That is a false accusation for which you have no evidence.

"You believe Kavanaugh had a beer after the game? Probably had a case before and during."



Maybe dude was a party animal and a drunk and did a lot of stupid stuff back in the day, but you cannot ignore he may have traumatized a few people along the way with bad behavior, even if he can't remember
or even cares
.


If you are going to parse my words please include the qualifiers like probably... maybe... may have... even if... or! Or is it my Texas accent via Indiana that throws you off.
I'm also qualified to evaluate drunks and addicts by the way.

PS.

Sorry I am not as qualified to evaluate your project pictures, but you seem to have done good so far without my help. Very nice fence surrounding your deck/porch. You have great skills.

Sorry I am not as qualified to evaluate your project pictures, but you seem to have done good so far without my help. Very nice fence surrounding your deck/porch. You have great skills.

Thanks. I just go REAL slow and try to think it all out carefully.

I don't think you engaged is some great smear of Kavanaugh, but neither did you stand up for him and acknowledge that the "evidence" against him was flimsy.

Thanks. I just go REAL slow and try to think it all out carefully.

I don't think you engaged is some great smear of Kavanaugh, but neither did you stand up for him and acknowledge that the "evidence" against him was flimsy.

I could not after hearing the ALLEGATION against him which was CREDIBLE enough for a full investigation. The investigation in my opinion, was not extensive so it was not a credible investigation to find evidence. A statement of innocence is not evidence, more so an allegation isn't either. This was no court case so the standards are much lower than in a court of law, but a preponderance of the circumstantial admittedly anecdotal evidence far outweighed Kavanaugh's statements in my mind, but the kicker for me was my having prior knowledge of Kavanaugh's statements regarding past incidences with his mentor/sponsor and previous congressional interviews made the possibility of deception for whatever reason more likelier than a confused accusers (Ms. Ford) allegation.

That in no way precludes, despite his admitted and proven history as a youth and college guy, that he turned himself around and got on a more responsible path. I must point out though the specter of deception was while he was an adult professional. In addition his impassioned rant at the opening of his statement before the most recent senate judicial committee hearing was so filled with innuendo of conspiracy and revenge on his part that he turned me completely off by showing me a less than savory side for one being interviewed for such high office as SCOTUS. A great dufus imitation, but a nail in his coffin for me.

Bottom line is the CREDIBILITY of the senate investigation by the FBI sucked! I cannot in good conscious support any of this surrounding this nominee. The evidence of Kavanaugh's veracity left me wanting in to big of a way. Hope that explains my point of view.

This is all you need to know about the Kavenaugh hearing .

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2018-11-02%20CEG%20to%20DOJ%20FBI%20(Munro-Leighton%20Referral)%20with%20redacted%20enclosure s.pdf

And that means ALL the other testimonies they investigated are false?

Hello again,

Here's my uninformed prognostication.. As soon as practical after the midterm, Trump will FIRE Jeff Sessions, and FORCE Ron Rosenstien to resign.. That effectively passes the responsibility for the investigation to the Solicitor General, who is a Trump ally, and he'll KILL the investigation..

Mueller, knowing that he's gonna be nuetered, will file a boatload of indictments and/or subpoenas on Tuesday or Wednesday..

Or, the investigation gets burried, and Trump gets away with it all.. And, my beloved country will be resigned to the dustbin of history..

excon

Or, the truth comes out which is there is nothing to the allegations. Now liberals kind of have a problem with accepting that an accusation is not the same as proof. Check out the Kavanaugh hearings to see evidence of that.


This is all you need to know about the Kavenaugh hearing .

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo...enclosures.pdf (https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2018-11-02%20CEG%20to%20DOJ%20FBI%20(Munro-Leighton%20Referral)%20with%20redacted%20enclosure s.pdf)

Just amazing. Turns out that she lied for political purposes. That will come as a shock to some on this board. It's why that nagging little thing called "evidence" is kind of important.

Everybody included Ms. Ford called for an investigation and what we got was a complete SHAM only the stupid would fall for. That's okay, take your judge pick, for now. Enjoy it while it lasts.

We got an investigation which revealed that Dr. Ford's witnesses disputed her account. Not a single person was found to lend credibility to her story. Again, you are being led by your hatred of Mr. Trump. It is the same brand of politics practiced by the birthers, except that they at least had some small amount of evidence. You have none.

The birthers had evidence? No they had allegations... I told you that you don't know the difference.

Let us rely on the adage, where there is smoke there is fire. But why worry about history, that debate is over and we need a new one

The birthers had evidence? No they had allegations... I told you that you don't know the difference.







Well thank goodness you have finally developed a respect for evidence!




Let us rely on the adage, where there is smoke there is fire. But why worry about history, that debate is over and we need a new one




In the case of Kavanaugh, there was no smoke. Hot air, but no smoke. And in case you want to refer to Dr. Ford's statements, I would remind you of what my esteemed friend, Tal, just stated. "No they had allegations... I told you that you don't know the difference."

Let us rely on the adage, where there is smoke there is fire. But why worry about history, that debate is over and we need a new one

You haven't heard of the marauding band of invaders from central America that's going to rape, pillage and plunder?

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/cache/lw600/167/16743/1674330.jpg

You haven't heard of the marauding band of invaders from central America that's going to rape, pillage and plunder?

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/cache/lw600/167/16743/1674330.jpg

I seem to recall that Trump had similar views about the Mexicans some of whom he later said were good people.

Rhetoric is stock in trade for the dunce

Yeah. And of course no democrat president would have engaged in rhetoric. I say that as one of those "deplorables" who is "clinging to" his "guns and religion."

They all engage in rhetoric, no politician is immune to it, I just keep thinking give me my portable bulldozer because the bullslit is getting too thick

Yeah. And of course no democrat president would have engaged in rhetoric. I say that as one of those "deplorables" who is "clinging to" his "guns and religion."

Those are true statements though! The dufus spews hate speech.

Those are true statements though! The dufus spews hate speech.

That's by a PREPONDERANCE of the EVIDENCE!

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/167/16740/1674014.gif

Yeah. Right. And Kavanaugh was definitely guilty.

Yeah. Right. And Kavanaugh was definitely guilty.

Know way to know that at this point. Nice job repubs!

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/167/16741/1674147.gif

DHS has identified 270 criminals in the caravan :
Q: Do we know who is in the caravan?

A: We continue to be concerned about individuals along the caravan route. In fact, over 270 individuals along the caravan route have criminal histories, including known gang membership. Those include a number of violent criminals – examples include aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, armed robbery, sexual assault on a child, and assault on a female. Mexican officials have also publicly stated that criminal groups have infiltrated the caravan. We also continue to see individuals from over 20 countries in this flow from countries such as Somalia, India, Haiti, Afghanistan, and Bangladesh. There is a large segment of this population that we know nothing about and we must be prepared to defend our border and enforce our laws to protect the citizens of our country.
Q: Are there criminals in the caravan?

A: Yes – so far, there are over 270 individuals along the caravan route that have criminal histories, including known gang membership.
On October 29, the Mexican ambassador to the U.S. described (https://www.dhs.gov/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapp.criticalmention.com %2Fapp%2F%23clip%2Fview%2F3c3d755a-caff-4e1d-8323-519e674e8134%3Ftoken%3De7244e3d-b1f8-497a-935f-e679aacb61e2) some of the caravan members as “very violent:” “Unfortunately, some of the people in the caravan have been very violent against authority, even though they have offered the possibility of entering in compliance with immigration law and refugee status.”
On October 30, Mexico’s Interior Minister Navarrete Prida speaking (https://www.dhs.gov/redirect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.especialistas.com.mx %2Fgenericas%2Fdetallenotaenlace.aspx%3Fid%3D33383 5658%26idc%3D3%26servicio%3D6) on Radio Enfoque (Focus) 100.1 FM, confirmed that some criminal groups have infiltrated the caravan: “I have videos from Guatemala that show men dressed in identical clothing, sporting the same haircuts, handing out money to women to persuade them to move to the front of the caravan…We know, for a fact, that some members of the caravan threatened [Mexican] Migration Institute personnel and we have images showing many of them preparing Molotov cocktail

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/11/01/myth-vs-fact-caravan


and birther conspiracy was a silly hill to make a stand on.It was a bogus issue . I wrote this in 2008 and it still applies :


regarding Obama's birth certificate ;


Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. CodeSec 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth":


Anyone born inside the United States
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

So even if the evidence shows that he was born outside the US and his Hawaii birth certificate was a fraud ;he would still be qualified .


https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/politics/ineligible-candidate-275470.html

And that means ALL the other testimonies they investigated are false?

No but the Chairman's 400 page report released late last week says there was nothing there for any of the allegations .
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2018-11-02%20Kavanaugh%20Report.pdf


Fords was the most "credible " But Ford’s testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee differed from statements she made to her therapist, the Washington Post reporter who broke the story, and even from her initial letter to Sen. Dianne Feinstein. Ford’s story morphed from a sexual assault by four boys in the mid-1980s, while she was in her late teens, to a sexual assault by one boy at a party attended by five people in 1982, when she was 15.
The location of the assault went from a home near her parents’ country club to a house somewhere between the country club and her home, which was a 20-minute drive away. It is all in his report including stuff the committee learned after the hearings .(like her complete lies about knowledge of polygraph tests ).

or this lie :“I struggled academically. I struggled very much in Chapel Hill and in college. When I was 17 and went off to college, I had a very hard time, more so than others, forming new friendships and especially friendships with boys, and I had academic problems.” But friends from her time at UNC say she had "a fairly active and robust social life” in college His letter added that Chrissy “seemed to have a number of other non-dating male friends, more guy friends perhaps than females,” and that she attended “frat house parties, some crowded and lasting very late in the evening,” as well as “smaller gatherings in male friend’s rooms or apartments.”Ford “did not seem to be afraid to be in rooms or apartments with only one entrance,” ......“This was the case even if very late at night with her and her friend as the only females present.”

Yeah, but she was bound to be telling the truth because, after all, Senator Spartacus found her to be credible.

Sen Sparticus is not clear from liability with the Senate Ethics Committee for admitting disclosure of confidential docs.

Here are the Senate Rules :


5. Any Senator, officer or employee of the Senate who shall disclose the secret or confidential business or proceedings of the Senate, including the business and proceedings of the committees, subcommittees and offices of the Senate shall be liable, if a Senator, to suffer expulsion from the body; and if an officer or employee, to dismissal from the service of the Senate, and to punishment for contempt.6. Whenever, by the request of the Senate or any committee thereof, any documents or papers shall be communicated to the Senate by the President or the head of any department relating to any matter pending in the Senate, the proceedings in regard to which are secret or confidential under the rules, said documents and papers shall be considered as confidential, and shall not be disclosed without leave of the Senate.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/SMAN-107/html/SMAN-107-pg52.htm

https://fox61.com/2018/11/05/nbc-says-it-will-pull-trump-campaigns-racist-ad-after-airing-it-on-sunday-night-football/



Fox’s decision was particularly surprising given the network’s close proximity and friendly relationship with the White House.Critics of the network say its hosts and commentators employ some of the same racist rhetoric and scare tactics that were used in the ad.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jake-tapper-ronna-mcdaniel_us_5bdf11c1e4b09d43e31fd22b

https://reason.com/blog/2018/11/02/sheriff-joe-arpaio-let-immigrant-killer



So that ad Trump is touting could just as easily say "REPUBLICANS LET HIM STAY" and "WHO ELSE DID SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO LET GO?" Last year, Arpaio was pardoned by the president (https://reason.com/blog/2017/08/30/joe-arpaio-may-have-been-pardoned-but-he)
after being found guilty of contempt of court for flouting a federal order to stop "the unconstitutional racial profiling and detainment of Latino residents."

How much more do you guys need? You still holding your nose JL?

How much more do you guys need? You still holding your nose JL?


Given the choice of Trump or the thoroughly incompetent, unqualified, and dishonest Hillary Clinton, it's still one of the easiest decisions of my lifetime, and every time I look at the economy and the Supreme Court, I know it was the right one.

Any political party dumb enough to nominate her deserves to lose.

It's highly likely the economy would be humming along under Hillary. As for blaming liberal judges for ruining your day, that would be a stretch. Looks like you were going to hold your nose no matter who won. That's sad.

That's sad

Only for you.

I have never had to hold my nose, no matter who the president was. Life goes on. I'm not holding my nose now, just shaking my head. I admit Bush's election had me running for the doors and leaving the rat race behind. He was a lousy business man and had numerous bankruptcies too. He ruined the great economy Clinton left him, and the dufus may well follow his pattern.

I found something good in past repubs though, but I ain't holding my breathe for this dude we have now.

I have never had to hold my nose, no matter who the president was. Life goes on. I'm not holding my nose now, just shaking my head. I admit Bush's election had me running for the doors and leaving the rat race behind. He was a lousy business man and had numerous bankruptcies too. He ruined the great economy Clinton left him, and the dufus may well follow his pattern.

I haven't been enthusiastic about a pres since Reagan and wouldn't give any of them a score better than "OK". Clinton was less than OK due to his veto of the ban on partial birth abortion and his terrible behavior in the Lewinsky scandal. Bush was OK. Obama was much less than OK and one of the worst presidents we've had in a century. H Clinton was the worst candidate in my lifetime. But I don't dispute your right to hold your own opinions. My greatest disappointment is our country's loss of the value of freedom and respect for life, and so turning to big government as our savior. The discovery that the feds can finance the budget with borrowed money will eventually be devastating to our country.

I think you place too much blame on government and not enough on irresponsible businessmen. They control the economy, and the flow of MONEY. If you don't have enough talk to your boss. Good luck with that, and let me know what he says.

I think you place too much blame on government and not enough on irresponsible businessmen. They control the economy, and the flow of MONEY. If you don't have enough talk to your boss. Good luck with that, and let me know what he says.

What's to prevent you from becoming a responsible businessman? Show them how it's done. Truthfully, I know quite a number of responsible businessmen. I was on the campus of Mississippi State University a few weeks ago and it just so impressed me how most of the buildings were constructed from donations from those business people. Went to the Lauren Rogers Museum of Art today in Laurel, Mississippi. Same deal there. So I'm not sure they are as irresponsible as you suggest.

Might add that we went to Mississippi State to see the U.S. Grant Presidential Library. Just still amazes me that we have that library in Mississippi. It is really nice and well worth seeing.

Truthfully, I know quite a number of responsible businessmen.


No, you don't. What you DO know is businessmen who think like you do - right-wingers. Businesses, excepting non-profits, are legally required to pursue profit as their primary reason for being. This is written into their Articles of Incorporation. Acting for the common good is a distant motivation - mostly not pursued at all other then by accident in the nature of the product or service. Shareholders can and will sue the business that puts anything ahead of profit.

I've noticed you throw terms around to suit your purpose du jour.

No, you don't. What you DO know is businessmen who think like you do - right-wingers. Businesses, excepting non-profits, are legally required to pursue profit as their primary reason for being. This is written into their Articles of Incorporation. Acting for the common good is a distant motivation - mostly not pursued at all other then by accident in the nature of the product or service. Shareholders can and will sue the business that puts anything ahead of profit.

Well Athos, you are an amazing person. You seem to have an ablity to sit hundreds of miles away and yet know all about the business people I know. I am impressed! However, you seem to have a rather limited idea about businesses. The vast majority of businesses don't have shareholders. They are either sole proprietorships or partnerships. And yes, I'm sure they would have to make a profit. Kind of hard to stay in business if they don't do that. Athos, how many businesses are you running that make no profit and yet still stay in business? How many people do you employ?

Regardless of your faulty understanding of the matter, I know a number of business people who are good people and use their money for good purposes. They are not all, as you put it, "right wingers", but they all have a sense of responsibility to the community. And no, I am not one of them. Retired school principal.

Networks are saying results are disappointing so far . Maybe the Russians interfered this year too . <sarc>

Evidently Trump paid the Russkies to elect a democrat house.

Repubs appear to retain the senate... you got the judges, but dems have the house... the purse strings, budgets and finally oversight and accountability of the dufus. Silly season is over and we get the lame duck shuffle. I heard that Nancy is sharpening her stick for one last shove up the Dufus's arse! Boy will he be hollering now!

Networks are saying results are disappointing so far . Maybe the Russians interfered this year too . <sarc>


What network? FOX?

Watch Trump become a Democrat now that he has to deal with a Democratic House. He already has the Trumpian Senate in his pocket. He will completely ignore the Republican losses in the House and claim A) voter fraud, B) any Republican success the result of his campaigning, and C) false news.

If nothing else, Trump has become predictable.

Repubs appear to retain the senate... you got the judges, but dems have the house... the purse strings, budgets and finally oversight and accountability of the dufus. Silly season is over and we get the lame duck shuffle. I heard that Nancy is sharpening her stick for one last shove up the Dufus's arse! Boy will he be hollering now!

Trump is very comfortable dealing with Dems .He did it for years here in NY and Athos is right ;he is really for all intents and purposes a Dem when it comes to domestic issues . He likes big $$$ government projects .He does not mind spending the birthright of future generations . In reality he likes universal health care . His differences with them is regulations and border security .

So will the Dems work with Trump ? Not likely . If they spend the next 2 yrs trying to investigate Trump while getting nothing done with the Senate ;they'll be a perfect foil for the president setting him up with a decent chance to be re-elected.


What network? FOX? The actual quote was from George Stephanopoulos during ABCs coverage . I was flipping between ABC FOX and CNN and a local station for as long as I could stay awake.

and to show how much NY is a Democrat dictatorship ; the Rep in my district ,Nita Lowey (who because of Dem gerrymandering lives miles from my town ,on the other side of the Hudson River ,in a different county ) ,won virtually unopposed (she had to "fend off " a minor party challenger ) . She will most likely be that chair of the Appropriations Committee.that has in Tal's words their hands on " the purse strings, budgets" . Hold onto your wallets people !!!!!

So change is in the wind, it is an ill wind that blows no one any good

the Dems barely took the House . The Repubs gained in the Senate guaranteeing Trump 2 more years of selecting Federal Judges .
Andrew Gillum, Bill Nelson, and Stacey Abrams were all supposed to be in unbelievably tight races. In the end, they all finished behind their Repub opponents
The three competitive races that Obama re-emerged from (quasi) private life to try and whip.... all three lost. Even better ;EVERY Dem Senator who was in a race AND voted against Kavanaugh lost their race .

Even better ;EVERY Dem Senator who was in a race AND voted against Kavanaugh lost their race .

Exactly as they deserved.

Repubs didn't get a shellacking like the dems did in 2010, but DEMS gained enough to get a seat at the table of power. They broke the monopoly of power, and even in the senate repubs and the dufus can only still get judges through. Everything else requires DEMS, as it did before. Both sides got a lil' sumpthin, as we prepare for another election.

The take away for me was that turnout matters, and the more participation there is the better the dems do. Heck red states like Florida and Georgia got a wake up call and even red Texas is on notice. Dems thrived and Repubs survived for now.

Yeah turnout matters and at 36% you could hardly say it was democracy at work, 64% weren't interested, tells you something

here is a picture of Republicans rioting in the streets ;chanting ,shouting ;knocking over garbage cans after learning that the Dems had won the House .
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45577656_10217759864009397_4361298719379816448_o.j pg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=7c63013a8d141c7c2b3e754c3862fb8a&oe=5C71BE79

The take away for me was that turnout matters, and the more participation there is the better the dems do. Heck red states like Florida and Georgia got a wake up call and even red Texas is on notice. Dems thrived and Repubs survived for now. The most hits on Google yesterday was a site called Donde Votar ?https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18069720/midterm-election-latino-vote-donde-votar-google

At the request of the White House AG Jeff Sessions has tendered his resignation, FIRED to the uninformed... replaced by Session's chief of staff Matt Whitaker.

yup SOP for administrations at mid term.

And 4 Americans were killed in Benghazi while the Pres stood around and did nothing. Oh wait... that wasn't Trump, was it?

yup SOP for administrations at mid term.

Yeah had nothing to do with Sessions recusing himself from the Russia investigation, and being replaced by the guy who publicly states that investigating the dufus is out of bounds. It's just a coincidence the whole dufus campaign crew was indicted, or convicted and have jail sentences pending after plea deals.



And 4 Americans were killed in Benghazi while the Pres stood around and did nothing. Oh wait... that wasn't Trump, was it?

Does that relieve the dufus of accountability for his actions?

Does that relieve the dufus of accountability for his actions?

No. Just thought a little perspective would be helpful. Benghazi was a really big deal, and this is a not nearly so big deal.

One day you may let go of your nose and BREATH! Corruption is a big deal, as is OBSTRUCTION of an ongoing investigation. Innocent people have no fear of an investigation, nor try to get a sycophant to protect him from one.

Corruption is a big deal, as is OBSTRUCTION of an ongoing investigation. Innocent people have no fear of an investigation.

I agree with you on that one. I would point out, however, that there was no call for an investigation of Benghazi, or the IRS, or the Veteran's Admin, or the "Fast and Furious" operation by liberals. Only conservatives called for those pretty obvious cases of corruption to be investigated. Mr. Obama even went so far as to advance the ridiculous claim that there was no scandal in his administration.

We've had this Russia investigation for what, 18 months, and so far a dry well. I guess once we get out to five or ten years, liberals will finally grow weary of the zero batting average.

LOL, that's reall funny considering you investigated the Clinton for decades, including how many repub led congressional hearings? They have investigated Benghazi, look it up for yourself, independently and issued a report, and recommendations and all that stuff. You seem to make Benghazi and Hillary your default answer to everything the dufus does.

Oh, but you didn't read carefully. Liberals want to investigate Trump, and conservatives want to investigate HC and Obama. Neither one has much room to play the "holier than thou" game. So when you say that "corruption is a big deal", I understand that to mean corruption on the conservative side, since you have never seem to be even the slightest bit upset over the sins of Mr. Obama or Hillary.

Now I would be upset about Kavanaugh or Trump IF IF IF I could locate some evidence that seems to point towards their guilt.

I make few mentions of conservatives or liberals JL, and confine the CURRENT corruption to the dufus and his protecting sycophants. The evidence though incomplete, is steadily mounting through his own campaign crew being indicted, and the growing financial trail left by unindicted cabinet members, and economic ties to foreign countries. We even have EVIDENCE that lies were told about those contacts, and plenty of wrong intent spoken by the dufus himself.

You saying there is no probable cause to investigate is absurd on it's face and a complete abrogation of the RULE of LAW! We know of the actions of foreign agents on the 2016 elections, we have the EVIDENCE of that. Regardless repubs had YEARS and decades to bring charges and still can against what they think are liberal wrongdoing to a court of law, and they have NOT.

Either conservatives are incompetent or wrong, and so nothing to do with a COMPETENT investigation on the dufus and his corrupt cronies and bringing them to justice. Hey, if he gets cleared of wrong doing, then more power to him. Forgive me for not taking HIS word or YOURS about his innocents. Sorry but so many corrupt individuals in this group is not a ringing endorsement for the innocence of the leader of the group.

If your position is that all the apples in this barrel are rotten except for one, then you got nothing!

Mueller is wrapping up his investigation within the month with or without the change at AG . Now I'm hearing the Dem echo chamber saying Whitaker has conflicts of interest . Hilarious ! Not once did they bring up the very obvious conflicts of interest with Rosenstein.

confine the CURRENT corruption to the dufus and his protecting sycophants

That's kind of the point I was making.

Good luck with your continuing decades long HC thing, I doubt if you wish Mueller any luck.

Here is NY we have been living with her corruption and fraud since 1980.


Hey Broward and Palm beach ..... did you find enough hanging chads to steal the election for Nelson and Gillum yet ? No ? keep looking . You have until Saturday to stuff those ballots into your cars .

Here is NY we have been living with her corruption and fraud since 1980.


Hey Broward and Palm beach ..... did you find enough hanging chads to steal the election for Nelson and Gillum yet ? No ? keep looking . You have until Saturday to stuff those ballots into your cars .

I feel for you Tom, since the dufus and various others have been there as long if not a lot longer. I can see where you could be cynical... no font needed.

https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcamax.com%2Fnewspics% 2Fcache%2Flw600%2F167%2F16757%2F1675791.jpg&t=1541736628&ymreqid=acd6ec88-63d3-b076-1c20-1f0001011800&sig=B9iriNFvkDWZMqE9YAZLPw--~C (https://www.arcamax.com/jeffdanziger/s-2144173?ezine=640&r=g_I3_rZFXF16PhWkuyC3y46yR9tAxU6Ec06hyEF6X6xDOjUx MDM2OTA1Oko6MTgwMDkwOTpMOjY0MDpSOjM1NDg0NzpTOjIxND QxNzM6Vjo0OQ)

it appears the Dems will be successful in stealing the Florida election. No one in the country should be happy with the fraud being done there .

Or you could read the Florida stautes concerning counting votes. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0102/Sections/0102.112.html)

Not surprised repubs would holler foul before the process has been duly certified. You want instant results, then spend the dough for the right technology.

instant results ? Would that be counting ballots in secret closed rooms ;destroying ballots like Brenda Snipes has been known to do ? Here is the game . They allow people who can't prove they are eligible to vote to fill out a provisional ballot. . They are put on hold and only become an issue during recounts . So then Snipes and the clown in Palm Beach lose enough Republican ballots so by certification day (tomorrow) the percentage is low enough that a recount is mandatory . Then the provisional ballots come into play.

Tal the counties in Florida run their elections and choose the technology and their election commissioners . I find it interesting that only in Democrat districts ;in states with close races trending against the Dems ,does the technology used becomes an issue. It is amazing ! Dems used to be sore losers . Now they are sore winners .

Not over with yet. Judge sides with republican candidate Rick Scott. So far they have "found" nearly one hundred thousand votes above what was reported on election night. Ridiculous.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/judge-sides-with-floridas-rick-scott-cites-violation-of-state-constitution-by-election-officials

Relax fellas until after the votes have been counted. Repubs pulled this same tactic before,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot

Yet we have no voter fraud,

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/florida-department-law-enforcement-no-fraud-allegations-scott



Less than 24 hours after Gov. Rick Scott called for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to investigate “rampant fraud” in his U.S. Senate race, the department said that there are no voter fraud allegations to look into and that Scott made no formal request for an investigation.

It's all red meat for the loony crowd and the cameras.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot


Yet we have no voter fraud,
The whole Fla 2000 fiasco was fraud and a perfect example of what I am referring to . They kept on recounting and recounting until they would've gotten the results they wanted …...until SCOTUS stopped the process.
The Miami Herald and USA Today did an independent recount after the election and determined that Bush indeed won the election.

They haven't gotten to the recount as yet, they're still just counting.

They have come up with about a hundred thousand ballots that were somehow not counted on Tuesday. You don't find that to be alarming?

Not really, but I have seen this type of thing before not just in Florida, but many states. It's more a consequence of close races than fraud though, and human tribal angst. Across the nation there are more than 60 counties still counting votes.

No EVIDENCE of fraud despite the hollering that there is.

100,000 "newly found" votes is not evidence of fraud? Fifty here or a hundred there could be understood, but 100K? That's hard to explain.

LOL, don't get excited! If law enforcement is watching for fraud why would you get hyped by a newspaper article of what some pundit says? Trust but verify, and if it's so concerning to you INVESTIGATE and see if you have EVIDENCE of fraud before you get excited.

Reasonable? Or do you have that EVIDENCE?

If law enforcement is watching for fraud

A judge has already ruled they are violating the Constitution.

In Florida they ruled to provide data and access to the Scott campaign according to your link



A state judge on Friday sided with Florida Republican Rick Scott in ordering that Republicans be granted “immediate” access to requested information about ballots in Broward County, amid explosive lawsuits against the county’s top election official....
Phillips ordered Broward County Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes to allow for the “immediate inspection” and “photocopying” of the requested records no later than 7 p.m. Friday.

Violation and unconstitutional don't have the same meaning or consequences, and while repubs cry fraud, none has been found. An announcement is forthcoming today likely leading to a recount in 3 Florida political races. That puts final results off until sometimes next week around Wednesday.

That's the process as I understand the reading of the Florida statutes and why I provided a link to it so we could all get UNDERSTANDING to the lawful process.

They have announced a recount process for 4 Florida State Election races.

Maybe this is why Comey was so lenient with Evita ?


https://nypost.com/2018/11/09/james-comey-discussed-sensitive-fbi-business-on-his-private-email/

Clintons email scandal was a nothing burger from the beginning. Just a continuation of the decades long smear campaign repubs waged.

According to the IG , an investigation in 2017 by the FBI’s Inspection Division found that, before Comey’s 2016 statement, “the FBI ... successfully determined classified information was improperly stored and transmitted on Clinton’s email server,
and classified information was compromised by unauthorized individuals, to include foreign governments or intelligence services, via cyber intrusion or other means.”

You try to divert from the real issue here by making a bogus link with Trump and Russian hackers ;when the real crime was the criminally unauthorized using of an unsecured server to do sensitive government communications . Comey went easy on her by his own admission because he too was compromised with a "careless" use of and unauthorized device .

Relitigating old so called scandals in the face of new ones is fascinating to me Tom, as how can we ignore the current events of NOW, such as the appointment of Matt Whitaker replacing the fired Jeff Sessions as an obvious foil to the Mueller investigation. So before you run the talking points of the dufus hiring and firing whomever he pleases, let me ask is it too much to expect his picks to not have a potentially criminal background, or under investigation by the very entity he now heads? Geez come on man!

I'll let you do the homework as not to prejudice the forum with FAUX NEWS! HINT: Google Matt Whitaker. See how easy I made it to copy and paste with no typing necessary? You're welcome.