Orlando, the City Beautiful, peaceful evening was shattered yesterday morning while we got smack in the gut by hate. If you live here you knew what was going on just minutes after it started. We spent the night and yesterday checking on loved ones and friends. 104 people went out to enjoy a nice weekend in Orlando, one was killed Friday night, 50 were killed yesterday, and 53 plus countless others are in some stage of healing, pain, or whatever. Another senseless act of violence by a deranged hateful jerk. I have no problems with people owning guns. I have a problem with the wrong people having access to guns. This is my hometown where I was raised not far from Pulse and where I chose to raise my kids. My high school is less than 5 minutes away from Pulse. The hospital that most were taken to was where I was born not 0.2 miles away from Pulse. Pulse used to be a Italian restaurant called Lorenzo's and wow did they have good pizza.

I don't want every baseball game to have moment of silence with the word "ORLANDO" on the jumbotron. I don't want the Tony's to dedicate their show to Orlando. I want the hate to stop and I want people to be tolerant. But yesterday I still had a son celebrating his 13th birthday so with a very heavy heart we still had to celebrate. I was very proud he chose after dinner to go to the candlelight vigil downtown at our Lake Eola.

I want the Federal Government to find these radical hate-filled people and keep them from having guns. We have to do better.

I call on parents to teach their kids how to love and be more tolerant.

The shooter's dad apologized yesterday. Not good enough, not from where I sit in my hometown. It's just a sad day in Orlando.

How do you keep them from having guns? Responsible owners follow the proper channels. Terrorists, not so much.

When I asked my gun, I have many, she didn't respond. Why? Because she is an inanimate object that has no power until I put her in my hands.

We need to stop blaming the gun, and start blaming the human holding it. Bring back stringent mental health care, vet our immigrants better.

Stop op blaming the gun, start blaming our government.

And who needs an AR-15? It's not useful for hunting (there'll be nothing left of the animal) or for self defense; it's a people-killing machine.

I wept again as I read this morning's newspapers and watched the current TV reports. My heart is breaking. Young school children, Christians gathering in church, theatergoers, people at work, high school and college students, a nightcub packed with gays -- what next? No one is safe.

Omar Mateen followed all the rules for obtaining and registering his guns. He'd even been looked at more than once by the FBI. Yet he was a loose screw with a background of wife beating and instability. So who can we trust with guns? Whom do we allow to have guns?

And who needs an AR-15? It's not useful for hunting (there'll be nothing left of the animal) or for self defense; it's a people-killing machine.

Have you ever been hunted by a grizzly bear while pregnant? I have, while living and camping in Alaska. My 22 year old daughter is alive today because I knew how to use a 7.65x39.

Have you ever been hunted by a grizzly bear while pregnant? I have, while living and camping in Alaska. My 22 year old daughter is alive today because I knew how to use a 7.65x39.
I can appreciate that but how many gunowners need an AR-15 to protect their daughter from a grizzly. You were in a very unique situation.

I have to agree with WonderGirl here. This was a person who was twice looked at by the FBI and had a history of mental illness. Yet he was able to legally obtain assault rifles without raising a flag somewhere! How did such a person pass a background check? I don't know the exact answer because I don't know what was required to obtain those guns. But whatever it was was not adequate. And that's the problem. Many states make it too easy to obtain any weapon, let alone a people killer like these weapons.

Of course its not the gun's fault. But maybe if we make it harder for a person like this to get such weapons, he doesn't go on such a spree. Of course there is the possibility that he then tries to obtain the weapons illegally, or use a different methodology. We can't know the answer, but we have to make it more difficult to obtain such weapons.

The NRA is partially to blame here. If the NRA would work towards reasonable and meaningful laws to try and prevent this type of tragedy while protecting the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns, it would help. But instead the NRA's reaction is to resist ANY attempt at regulation rather then working for regulation that everyone can live with.

When will the violence end? Never, is my guess. It is part of the price we pay for a relatively free society. The only way the violence will completely end is in a closed totalitarian society. But we can and should be doing more.

The more years I live, the more it seems we are headed for the days of Revelations. Nobody deserved this or what happened at the AME church in South Carolina, or the school in Sandy Hook. I just want my friends, family, and hometown to be safe. And that wasn't the case this weekend.

Some people make me sick. Why don't the gun owners all turn in their guns and place a sigh on their lawn "Gun Free" Zone. See how that would work. Guns are not the problem, people are. How many AR-15's are there in the United States? I have no idea how many but I would be willing to bet that 99.9% of them are not out killing people. We already have gun control, background investigations and what ever the hell else that is required to buy a Gun. We need people control period. How many guns in Baltimore, New York City, Chicago, and every other big city carried by criminals are registered and legal, try none? Don't blame it on the NRA either, I don't know any criminal who belong to the NRA. You want to blame someone blame Trump NOT.

Why does someone need to own an assault rifle?

Why does someone need to own an assault rifle?

Apparently you don't know much about hunting. Just because the government or the media has the freedom to assign whatever label to things it feels like, that does not make it so. All Rifles are not Assault Rifles, just those that the Media likes to throw around to get big headlines.

Apparently you don't know much about hunting. Just because the government or the media has the freedom to assign whatever label to things it feel like, that does not make it so. All Rifles are not Assault Rifles, just those that the Media likes to throw around to get big headlines.
Then I'll be specific. Why does someone need to own an AR-15 or an AK-47?

Terrorist intent aside, which obviously needs to be dealt with in a more proactive manner, as J_9 said, the mental health situation in America is truly irresponsible. Bring back "institutions" in the sense where people can receive help who need it, have a home off the streets, be monitored as necessary, and the rest of society will have fewer incidents related to mental health concerns.

Certainly more needs to be done with the known thugs/criminals running around with guns. Of course it would mean more young men (for the most part) in prisons and that would cause some to protest. In some situations, a location similar to a half-way house might be more advantageous. Remove them from their dismal environment. Give them something more to strive for.

More needs to be done with guns being brought into the country illegally as well. Cut off the demand and the supply lines. Guns have always been in existence in America; in some locations the majority of the residents have guns without any issues. The variables are upbringing and opportunities.

Some changes do make sense; there should be background checks/waiting periods at gun shows and such, but also have more uniform enforcement of the laws already present.

You won't get real change without dealing with the root of the problem, whether due to mental health concerns, illegal guns, drugs, or terrorism, and the politicians/government don't want to go there, so they push for band-aids instead.

Terrorist intent aside, which obviously needs to be dealt with in a more proactive manner, as J_9 said, the mental health situation in America is truly irresponsible. Bring back "institutions" in the sense where people can receive help who need it, have a home off the streets, be monitored as necessary, and the rest of society will have fewer incidents related to mental health concerns.

Certainly more needs to be done with the known thugs/criminals running around with guns. Of course it would mean more young men (for the most part) in prisons and that would cause some to protest. In some situations, a location similar to a half-way house might be more advantageous. Remove them from their dismal environment. Give them something more to strive for.

More needs to be done with guns being brought into the country illegally as well. Cut off the demand and the supply lines. Guns have always been in existence in America; in some locations the majority of the residents have guns without any issues. The variables are upbringing and opportunities.

Some changes do make sense; there should be background checks/waiting periods at gun shows and such, but also have more uniform enforcement of the laws already present.

You won't get real change without dealing with the root of the problem, whether due to mental health concerns, illegal guns, drugs, or terrorism, and the politicians/government don't want to go there, so they push for band-aids instead.

I give you an A+

Then I'll be specific. Why does someone need to own an AR-15 or an AK-47?

Come on. When I roll over in bed all alone and I feel the cold steel barrell against my leg, I feel safe. Yeah, ridiculous I know.

PS My weapon of choice is the "Slingshot" with steel ball bearings.

Come on. When I roll over in bed all alone and I feel the cold steel barrell against my leg, I feel safe. Yeah, ridiculous I know.
The 2nd Amendment was written with muskets in mind. They could get off maybe four inaccurate shots per minute. Trade you a musket to sleep with instead of your "cold steel barrell."

The 2nd Amendment was written with muskets in mind. They could get off maybe four inaccurate shots per minute. Trade you a musket to sleep with instead of your "cold steel barrell."

I DON'T own an AR-15 nor do I desire one but I still want the right to own one, if I change my mind. How about my slingshot for your musket?

I DON'T own an AR-15 nor do I desire one but I still want the right to own one if I change my mind. How about my slingshot for your musket?
Naw. I need my musket for when the govnment tries to take our guns away.

Doula makes good points, but all the rights' groups we have now wouldn't let it happen.

Naw. I need my musket for when the govnment tries to take our guns away.

Okay, How about your Fife and Drum?

Okay, How about your Fife and Drum?
Maybe.

Why couldn't the FBI restrict Omar from buying guns?

We already have gun control, background investigations and what ever the hell else that is required to buy a Gun.

Really? Then explain to me how a person with a history of mental instability, a history of terrorist leanings that caused him to twice be checked by the FBI, how such a person was easily able to obtain a weapon such as the one used?

Yes, I WILL put some of the blame on the NRA because they fight ANY and EVERY type of gun control, no matter how reasonable. Instead of working towards regulation that everyone can live with. If the Orlando shooter had not obtained his weapon legally, then no I wouldn't blame the NRA. But the fact of the matter is, had he used a simple hunting rifle instead of a semi-automatic killing machine, then I doubt if the death toll would have been anywhere near as high.


I DON'T own an AR-15 nor do I desire one but I still want the right to own one, if I change my mind.

I notice you keep dodging Wondergirl's question. So when you "feel the cold steel barrell against my leg, I feel safe". But why does that barrel need to be a part of a weapon like the AR-15. I'm sorry, but you are displaying the same knee jerk reaction I spoke of! You want to own guns for the sport of hunting or even for protection then fine. I'm guessing that you can show that is your only reasons for gun ownership and you should be allowed. But can you tell me with complete honesty, that you think the Florida shooter should have been allowed to purchase such a weapon?


Apparently you don't know much about hunting.

Apparently YOU don't know much about hunting. I've known a few hunters and none would go into the woods with an AR-15. They hunt for the sport and there is no sport in using a semi-automatic to shoot game.

Maybe.

Why couldn't the FBI restrict Omar from buying guns?

Well, good question. We have freedoms in this country and unless he had done something that he could have been arrested for, they have no cause to
Keep him from buying a gun just like I can. Now, if the government wants to tighten up the law and say anyone with blue eyes cannot buy a gun, that is a problem. Suppose, the government would pass a law that said anyone who was not born in the USA nor his offspring could buy a gun. You can go on and on with all kinds of laws to keep certain people from buying guns as long as you stay within the Constitution and satisfy the Supreme Court.

Well, good question. We have freedoms in this country and unless he had done something that he could have been arrested for, they have no cause to
Keep him from buying a gun just like I can. Now, if the government wants to tighten up the law and say anyone with blue eyes cannot buy a gun, that is a problem. Suppose, the government would pass a law that said anyone who was not born in the USA nor his offspring could buy a gun. You can go on and on with all kinds of laws to keep certain people from buying guns.
And yet, Omar was "a person of interest." He had been doing and saying things that made people, even the FBI and his own father, sit up and take notice. But, gosh darn, Omar had the right to buy guns, especially a very cool AR-15.

Yep, the FBI had 2 investigations on him and closed them out. We have a "No Fly List" why not a "No Buy List"? We have background investigation, we have a waiting period of 7 days so why not a "No Buy List"?

Are we just going to discuss this from a guns standpoint or are we going to judge it from the point of right and wrong? To me owning guns is not wrong but rather a choice. Unless handled improperly they don't shoot people on their own. What this person did is beyond words for description. From a right and wrong standpoint it was absolutely wrong.

How do we fix it? That is another pandoras box to be opened. Can we stop all hate ? That is more of a dream then a likelihood. Our best defense against these types of situations is for community monitoring. We can not expect our government to be around the corner 24/7. It just doesn't and shouldn't work that way.

Being aware can help the situation. Did anyone hear that he was denied the purchase of a plated vest ? I'm sure there will be many things that are going to come out of this as the days pass. But one thing for sure. We need to figure out the lines between right and wrong and start drawing red lines so we can maintain balance in our society.



And to OP: Oliver my condolences to your community. I can not imagine how you must feel.

OK, lets try to put this in perspective. Looking at the Sandy Hook shooter. He came out of nowhere. There were no real indications of him going off the deep end. Plus he used legal weapons owned by his mother. From everything I've read there was little or nothing that could have predicted his actions. Next lets look at the Husband and wife in LA. In their case there were some clues, that might have given a clue, but nothing really overt. But now we turn to the latest incident. Here there were plentiful indications that this person had connections with radicals, had issues with mental illness. At the very least his application to purchase should have raised flags. At the most his application should have been denied. As far as I have read the weapon was bought only a few days ago! How much of a background check could have been done?

As cdad said we need to find a balance. But we will never find such a balance as long as the NRA has a knee jerk reaction and fights ANY and EVERY attempt at reasonable regulation.

Thank you. I haven't had these same feelings since 2001 I don't believe. I wouldn't wish this on any community. Central Florida really knows how to make the news with Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman, and now this. This senseless act just seems beyond hate. One of the kids killed got his Universal Studios job because he was so into Harry Potter. He worked the Harry Potter ride. Yesterday they closed the ride out of respect for him. You should have seen the lines to give blood yesterday and today. This is the community that I know and love. The happiest place on earth will be once again.


Are we just going to discuss this from a guns standpoint or are we going to judge it from the point of right and wrong? To me owning guns is not wrong but rather a choice. Unless handled improperly they don't shoot people on their own. What this person did is beyond words for description. From a right and wrong standpoint it was absolutely wrong.

How do we fix it? That is another pandoras box to be opened. Can we stop all hate ? That is more of a dream then a likelihood. Our best defense against these types of situations is for community monitoring. We can not expect our government to be around the corner 24/7. It just doesn't and shouldn't work that way.

Being aware can help the situation. Did anyone hear that he was denied the purchase of a plated vest ? I'm sure there will be many things that are going to come out of this as the days pass. But one thing for sure. We need to figure out the lines between right and wrong and start drawing red lines so we can maintain balance in our society.



And to OP: Oliver my condolences to your community. I can not imagine how you must feel.

And who needs an AR-15? It's not useful for hunting (there'll be nothing left of the animal) or for self defense; it's a people-killing machine.

I wept again as I read this morning's newspapers and watched the current TV reports. My heart is breaking. Young school children, Christians gathering in church, theatergoers, people at work, high school and college students, a nightcub packed with gays -- what next? No one is safe.

Omar Mateen followed all the rules for obtaining and registering his guns. He'd even been looked at more than once by the FBI. Yet he was a loose screw with a background of wife beating and instability. So who can we trust with guns? Whom do we allow to have guns?
Why would there" be nothing left....." In some States you can't use it for hunting because they believe the .223 caliber is too SMALL.. If it's a "people killing machine" seems like a good reason for self defense. Have you ever fired one? Sorry to pick at you but statements like those you made are reactive.

Sometimes on here I get the feeling that some are good at talking over, walking over or what ever when they don't agree with what you say or think. I repeat what is wrong with a "No Buy List", you sure as hell would have thought that after 2 Investigations, the FBI would have done something to stop that guy from getting a gun? DUH.

Why would there" be nothing left....." In some States you can't use it for hunting because they believe the .223 caliber is too SMALL.. If it's a "people killing machine" seems like a good reason for self defense. Have you ever fired one? Sorry to pick at you but statements like those you made are reactive.

You are 100% correct, it is considered to light for hunting.

Why would there" be nothing left....." In some States you can't use it for hunting because they believe the .223 caliber is too SMALL.. If it's a "people killing machine" seems like a good reason for self defense. Have you ever fired one? Sorry to pick at you but statements like those you made are reactive.
Yes, I have fired one. Omar did an outstanding job making history with that small caliber rifle. How many AR-15s are needed and used for self defense each month?

There is a great misconception about an AR. It doesn't stand for Assault Rifle, it stands for Armalite Research, the designer. It is a semi automatic rifle. What makes this so much more horrible than a WWII M1 or, the rifle I carried in the service, an M14? In actuality, either of these 2 are much more likely to cause extensive body damage but work the same as an AR15. Military snipers don't use an AR because, it is not a " killing machine ". There is no difference in hunting with a bolt action, single shot or semi auto. In fact, a semi auto maybe a better choice for older people. I personally use a 243 bolt action because it is actually more powerful than a semi auto of the samecaliber and more powerful than a 223, the standard AR round. The primary reason the AR was chosen for military use is that soldiers were having difficulty carrying the much higher caliber bullet and, most combat firing was close range, not at long distance.
Horrible tragedy but let's not forget WHO allowed this person to do the damage he did. Florida for giving him a carry permit after knowing there were questions, the FBI for being smooth talked and the police for waiting 3 hours to do something. From my understanding on the news, the company he worked for was informed of some of his ideologic thinking and didn't want to say anything BECAUSE he was a Muslim! Great political correctness my have caused many of these casualties.

See how people jump to the conclusion that AR stands for Assault Rifle. Like I have said, the Media and Government are very good at labeling or should I say Mis-labeling.

See how people jump to the conclusion that AR stands for Assault Rifle. Like I have said, the Media and Government are very good at labeling or should I say Mis-labeling.
I have never heard or read that, that AR stands for assault rifle. Semi-automatic version of the AR-15 = assault capability.

What ever read post #31

What ever read post #31
A semiautomatic spits out 1-3 rounds a second. To me, that's an assault. How many rounds were in his magazine? How often did he reload?

A semiautomatic spits out 1-3 rounds a second. To me, that's an assault. How many rounds were in his magazine? How often did he reload?



I think you need to relook at the real definition of semi-auto. It is 1 pull of the trigger and 1 shot per pull. By your definition most guns today would fit into the assault class. Modern well fitted bolt actions can spit 3 rounds in a second.

It's the gun's fault. It's the NRA's fault. It's the FBI's fault. I haven't seen on this thread that it's Mohammed's fault but Smoothy hasn't posted yet. I thought about posting that it's the fault of gun-free zones. This one, like most other crimes, is the fault of the irresponsible person who committed the crime.

If we stopped giving out participation trophies and started teaching our kids responsibility there would be fewer of these crimes.

Oliver, I truly hope none of your friends were there Saturday.

A semiautomatic spits out 1-3 rounds a second. To me, that's an assault. How many rounds were in his magazine? How often did he reload?
I have a semi auto 22 caliber rifle, a Ruger 10/22. It too can shoot 3 rounds per second. Is it an assault rifle? One of the things you are taught in an Active Shooter class is timing. In order to reload ANYsemi auto rifle, you have to unshoulder the weapon, release the empty magazine, get the filled magazine, insert it into the weapon and the cycle the first round. Time enough to do something concrete. Look at Sandy Hook. They told the children to hide under the desk,no one th ought to lock the door and they sat there even though they had a door to the outside. Look up an Active Shooter class near you, it may save your life!

Anyone shooting at me (and my friends) with 1-3 rounds a second is assaulting us.

Ah, the never ending gun debate again.

Why even bother to post? Those that want to have guns and fight to have guns, also fight for those that want to have guns and want to cause mass chaos and death with those guns. Those be the facts. You can't have it both ways. Either there's no guns to anyone, or guns to everyone, which means that bad people will get guns and do bad things, over and over and over and over and over and... well, it's never ending. The next mass shooting is just around the corner, and the US knows it. They're the mass murder capital of the world!

The US is messed up when it comes to guns and gun control. Americans don't want gun control, they want to sit back and think pretty thoughts about guns not being the problem. They post memes about guns not killing people but people killing people. Sadly, in the US, the people killing people, they have guns. But having guns are their right! So be it. Their rights are going to be the death of them all.

It's a losing battle. Most of the world has figured this out. Most of the world has major gun control laws. Those parts of the world rarely, if ever, deal with mass shootings, and all this other crap. Americans can't seem to get on board, and they don't want to. They want their guns, so let them have their guns, and let them deal with the consequences. I love my American friends, but frankly, at this point, I'm with the rest of the world. Let them have their rights, and when they finally kill themselves off, the rest of the world can set things right.

I for one am sick of trying to make them see a better way. They won't see it. They won't give up their guns. So let them all kill each other if that's what they want, which sadly, seems to be exactly what they want. :(

So done with this fight. You can only preach reason to a stone for so long before you realize the stone won't listen.

No amount of reason or facts will make them see that guns are the problem. So let them have their guns. No problem. Just don't try to bring them to my country!

Thank you. I know the parents of two that were shot but they will be okay. I know the parents of one who escaped AND didn't call his parents until noon on Sunday. I worry for his safety. His parents are not happy with him. I don't know any of the dead although I play jai alai with someone that works with the 22 year old Universal boy.

I didn't write this expecting a gun debate. I wrote this because I was angry and wanted to express myself. The FBI failed Orlando, failed in the deaths of 49 people, and failed in us feeling safe. And this jerk was a coward in his surprise attack on innocent people. I told a very good friend on here today that he might have expressed his alliance with ISIS, but when probably 80 bullets took his like, he met God.


It's the gun's fault. It's the NRA's fault. It's the FBI's fault. I haven't seen on this thread that it's Mohammed's fault but Smoothy hasn't posted yet. I thought about posting that it's the fault of gun-free zones. This one, like most other crimes, is the fault of the irresponsible person who committed the crime.

If we stopped giving out participation trophies and started teaching our kids responsibility there would be fewer of these crimes.

Oliver, I truly hope none of your friends were there Saturday.

How many rounds were in his magazine?

You READ a magazine and load ammunition in a CLIP. If you want to sound knowledgeable about firearms at least use the proper terminology.

You READ a magazine and load ammunition in a CLIP. If you want to sound knowledgeable about firearms at least use the proper terminology.
A detachable magazine is often referred to as a clip.

A detachable magazine is often referred to as a clip.
Technically incorrect. A clip holds the ammunition, it doesn't feed it to the charging ramp. An M1 uses a clip, it flies out on the last round, pushed out by the follower which is part of the rifle, and a new clip is loaded from the top. Look up" M1 thumb" A magazine holds and feeds the ammunition, the follower is inside the magazine and magazines are replaced from the bottom.

You know, sometimes it is better to dodge a question than to maybe say something that may prove that the person does not know what they are saying. As for my hunting, I have done my share of it. Also joking around seems to be verboten on here so I will just shut my pie hole and move on without offending anyone. See ya's around.

WG, I appreciate your attempt at firearms knowledge. How many firearms do you own? I currently have over 100 in my home of all shapes, sizes, and calibers. It helps that my husband is a master gunsmith though.

The actual issue here isn't gun control. We have plenty of that. The issue is enforcing the laws already on the books. The issue is that we have become a country of political correctness. Heaven forbid if offend someone! This country is populated by weak wimpy wussies. Rather than punishing law abiding citizens with more gun control, it's time to take our country back and work on getting the illegal guns off the streets.

Chicago has some of the stiffest gun control laws in the country, but has one of the highest crime rates. Why is that? It's because criminals and terrorists don't abide by the laws like you and I do.

It's time to take this country back.

That's part of the problem. What good are stiff gun laws when you can go get a gun where the laws are NOT stiff at all?

Who are we taking the country back from?

It's also been reported that the Orlando shooter frequented the bar he shot up, and is tied to several gay dating sights.

Who are we taking the country back from?. We are taking the country back from the criminals and thugs who rule our cities. We are taking our country back from the religious extremists, particularly radical Muslims.

Back to when the KKK and Christian extremists ruled our cities?

Back to when the KKK and Christian extremists ruled our cities?
Was the crime rate the same then as it is today? No. While I am against the KKK and the Christian extremists, specifically Wesboro Baptist Church, life was much safer than it is today.

Back to when the KKK and Christian extremists ruled our cities?Back to when we overtook the Sioux Indians?

Seriously, we are a country in turmoil. We can't go back in history to correct what is happening today.

This is the problem, no one can even agree on the real problem. Everyone keeps looking at the gun. That gun, on a shelf, in a gun safe, or in the hands of a responsible owner never does anything wrong.

The issue is the ISIS and the terrorist, and it is just going to get worst and worst in America. They have been lucky so far but it only takes a few to act and America will learn a new level of terror.

It is not the guns, I live in China, no guns here for over 60 years unless you are police and military. (see how well that worked for the common people, who have no way to revolt if they even wanted to now.

But we have terror attacks all the time, with machete (sword like) knives, lots of bombs and more. There are attacks at schools, attacks at subway stations, airports and so on.

And even here, some of the terrorist groups have guns, just smuggled in. We can not control illegal people from mexico, or drugs (that are illegal) how do you think we would ever stop illegal guns.

I can take a plumbing product and a auto product and make a very nice bomb. Propane tanks make bombs and so on.

The issue is dealing with the terrorists, but America will not even admit they are terrorist.

'This was a person who was twice looked at by the FBI and had a history of mental illness.'

The FBI looks at countless suspicious people and drops many of the investigations, given how many are 'turned in' by casual observers or people with a grudge (so I see on various interviews on TV with FBI agents).
Thus they aren't going to have a special list for those who they want to not be allowed to buy guns, especially considering that this shooter was born in the US and has all the rights the rest of us do. As for the history of mental illness - who says? His ex wife and a few others? That proves nothing, until you come up with some interaction with mental health treatment, or an arrest that involved a mental health check.

It is SO EASY to second guess when we look back. The FBI did investigate him for quite a while, including following him. He didn't DO anything. He was all over the place in his ideology or lack of it, such as saying he wished the cops would break in so he could defend his wife. He wasn't religious and didn't even get knowledge about
different factions right.

I suspect that he was mostly a screwed up, rejected, lonely man, who got worse as more people associated his personality with his religion and background, making him lonelier and angrier. He could have gone in any direction. Oh, and the FBI highly doubts that the ISIS claim to the attack is genuine. It doesn't fit, including how long it took them to say so.

I see no need for AR15s and their ilk. Gun experts tell me that's not meaningful because there are rapid fire handguns. I don't know about the Glock 17 he had. We need more gun savvy politicians who can go against all the technical differences.

Let's forget the religion, or motives of this nutcase, and consider that in Florida the wait time for buying this rifle is 0 days and has been used in 14 mass killing sprees to date. Ban the sucker, and its extended size clips.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15


Standard issue magazines are 20- or 30-round staggered-column magazines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazine_(firearms)) and traditional box magazines exist in 40- and 45-round capacities. Drum magazines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_magazine) with 90- and 100-round capacities, such as Beta C-Mags (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_C-Mag) are available, as well. Low-capacity magazines, usually of a 5- or 10-round capacity, are available to comply with some areas' legal restrictions, forhunting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting), and for benchrest shooting, where a larger magazine can be inconvenient. Surefire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surefire) is now offering extended capacity magazines in 60- and 100-round capacity configurations. These are of a staggered column design, dubbed casket magazines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casket_magazine) due to their shape.

AND,

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence – Gun Law Information Experts (http://smartgunlaws.org/waiting-periods-policy-summary/)


There is no federal waiting period. As described below, federal law allows a dealer to deliver a firearm to a purchaser as soon as a background check is completed, or after three business days even if a background check has not been completed. Each year, over 3,000 ineligible persons receive firearms through this default provision.

I feel your pain Oliver, and share your anger, but it started for me long before this latest shooting, and grows after common sense reasonable solutions are still being ignored or worse actively being stopped from starting no matter how many loved ones, and relatives are MURDERED!!

Federal vs states is at the crux of the legal aspect of this.

I just find it unfathomable that as a society and a world we are not getting better at all of this. That I have to teach my teenagers to always know where an exit is and to watch what is happening especially if you are at a place where there could be many casualties. I grew up and was taught to accept everyone and in the south that is not easy to do. I can’t imagine the pain of a parent whose son is texting that he’s going to die, that the shooter has him. Or the pain of the woman trying to find out information on her son and not knowing for 24 hours. I remember not locking the front door or my car and having the garage door up. Two partners were gunned down because they wanted to share their life together.

AND NOW there are reports that this creep might have been gay. He had a gay app on his phone and had been to gay clubs numerous times. Let’s hear ISIS support him now. This has got to stop. What a cowardly act to ambush innocent people. His father must be very proud. I have been raising kids my entire adult life and I am very proud that my boys have never hurt anyone and would never do so. I am just angry at the moment.



Let's forget the religion, or motives of this nutcase, and consider that in Florida the wait time for buying this rifle is 0 days and has been used in 14 mass killing sprees to date. Ban the sucker, and its extended size clips.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15



AND,

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence – Gun Law Information Experts (http://smartgunlaws.org/waiting-periods-policy-summary/)



I feel your pain Oliver, and share your anger, but it started for me long before this latest shooting, and grows after common sense reasonable solutions are still being ignored or worse actively being stopped from starting no matter how many loved ones, and relatives are MURDERED!!

Sadly the violence won't end as there always have been, and always will be, humans who feel that basically it's their way or the highway. This both encourages such acts, and prohibits action to prevent them.

Some will use an often warped interpretation of their religion as justification for their hatred, some will use personal experiences, jealousy, and vengefulness for their hate, some will be prompted by their own self-loathing. Many have interpersonal relationship issues, mental health issues, or are just plain evil. The acquisition of power/control is frequently a major player.

Unfortunately, these situations increase as society and families break-down.

Hopefully, with some careful consideration, and learning from previous mistakes, the America government, and the world when it comes to terrorism, will put differences/egos aside to come together to determine ways to, at the very least, lessen the number of such incidents... and soon. Too many cooks in the kitchen seem to prevent any real action.

Treating others as you would like to be treated, so simple, yet so foreign to many...

AND NOW there are reports that this creep might have been gay. He had a gay app on his phone and had been to gay clubs numerous times.


I wouldn't put too much stock in this as to me it seems this guy was calculating his moves to create the greatest impact he could. He also according to phone gps triangulation records visited Disneyland and other places where families hang out.

I believe he was looking for maximum impact and nothing else.

"Treating others as you would like to be treated, so simple, yet so foreign to many..."

Exactly. The society train is off the tracks.

So excited. I work at the same company as my spouse who made me very happy about an hour ago. Friday night is Orlando Pride night at the Tampa Rays game. We are going and we are taking the boys. All of the proceeds are going to the victim. Our Orlando Pride shirts are being delivered tomorrow. That was really cool and I can’t wait.

All of the people that I speak to are having the same difficult time moving past this horrible week that I am. Is that because it’s too soon? Or maybe it’s because Orlando has had three significant events in less than 5 days? Is it because most of us don’t know evil? I don’t know. Writing about it helps. The President’s visit and remarks help. I had to leave work at 3 yesterday so not to get caught in the highway blockage for when he went back to the airport. We live very close to the airport and about 4 years ago I was sitting on the highway for an hour when he was here.

I read about Sandy Hook and San Bernardino shootings but those were far from Orlando. I will never read any future reports about a mass shooting like that again. Sadly I typed that sentence and sadly we know there will be future episodes. I am usually a happy go lucky not a care in the world type of person. But this week has been tough. I just feel so badly for those kids and their families. This shouldn’t have happened. There are good stories as a result of this horrible event. Our Medical Examiner honored the victims by refusing to allow the body of that horrible evil man to be in the same room as the victims.

Today is the Orlando Pride baseball game between Tampa and San Fran. I hear it is sold out. All six of us going will be in these shirts:

https://www.google.com/search?q=orlando+pride+shirts&biw=1920&bih=1024&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwj7x82Hp6_NAhVFcz4KHbF5Cg4Q_AUICCgD#imgr c=Wsfa0w191BxYdM%3A

It could be the first time an indoor game is rained out with all the tears that will be flowing.

Then Sunday we are going as a family to the make shift memorial downtown.

I hope these things help heal us.

I've no doubt that it will be helpful in the healing process. It should be an amazing event (I should have gotten tickets through work when I had the chance); the tribute planned will be bittersweet. I hope you and your friends find some peace and comfort.

Why does someone need to own an assault rifle?Why do the police need automatic weapons and armoured personnel carriers?

We have a 2nd Amendment right to have arms to protect us from an out of control government, and ours inches closer to that every day.

Ever notice all these mass shootings were in gun free zones... that meant the gunman had free reign to do his will before police could be called and have time to arrive.

If anything, this proves why gun free zones are a bad idea and why more people should have concealed carry permits.

If even one or two people there did and were armed, There would have been significantly fewer victims.

Damned autocorrect on these mobile devices, on one in Europe right now.

Then I'll be specific. Why does someone need to own an AR-15 or an AK-47?
Let me chime in here, J_9 knows the answer to this and probibly even catonsville too.
An AR-15 is a .223 caliber rifle, or 5,56 mm it's not that big a bullet, it's also a semi automatic like many shotguns and other sporting riflesmare. The military uses a M-16 which is a elect firemweapon, three round bursts or fully automatic, it's also a Class 3 firearm and significantly more difficult to purchase and license, Yes a class 3 weapon is handled very differently, and having watched the news, most if not all reporters are idiots that don't know the difference between a B-B gun and a Howitzer.

And an AK-47 DESPITE all the claims by equally clueless people is a Class 3 firearm as the semiautomatic version carries a different name. They are not common or everywhere and just anyone can not walk in and buy one.

It is a 7.62x39 round.

And why do the police need them, why do they need armoured personnel carriers? What illegal act are they preparing for?

Look at Chicagos crime statistics as proof of how worthless banning guns are, only the criminals are armed, and everyone else is defenseless.

The police protect nobody, they nearly always show up after everything is over. You are responsible for your own protection.

With respect to Oliver I think that if we want to discuss weapons and their applications we might want to start a thread on the gun board. I don't believe it was the intent of the OP to start a thread on gun debate and virtues. This thread is more about feelings and perceptions.

What a weekend. The Tampa Rays game tribute to Orlando was incredibly moving. The Rays wore old Orlando Rays baseball caps for the whole game. That was their farm team from 1999-2003. Everyone got a “We Are Orlando” shirt. And the whole crowd was very respectful during the moment of silence as the scoreboard went through the names of the victims.

At the Orlando City soccer game Saturday night, both teams paused at the 49 minute mark to honor the victims. I heard there were many tributes at that game.

Sunday as a family we went to the makeshift memorial which is about a mile from the Pulse nightclub downtown. Each of us laid a white rose and paid our respects. It was at the memorial that I realized Adam and I knew one of the people killed. The press had been reporting his name as Peter O. Gonzalez-Cruz. He was 22. Adam and I get our mail delivered at our local UPS store and Peter was our guy. He goes by Peter Ommy and I didn't realize it was him until I saw his face downtown at the memorial. Peter always knew your name and was just the friendliest guy. I have his business card in my wallet even today.

There are just so many good stories to come out of this. I encourage you to read about the Grandmother who came down to bury her grandson and she flew down on JetBlue. Also read about the mother who was at the club with her son dancing. She threw herself in front of her son when the gunman opened fire. Her son survived. She did not. That selfless act got her a free ticket to heaven I am sure.

The outpouring of support from all over the country, and indeed the world is a very hopeful sign and maybe, just maybe our lawmakers can at least start to address the issues the PEOPLE care about in regards to such traumatic events that have plagued us ALL, for far too long.

And why do the police need them, why do they need armoured personnel carriers? What illegal act are they preparing for?

One of the main arguments of the gun lobby is that laws only inhibit law abiding citizens from getting guns, that criminals can get the weapons. So if you take that argument, it explains why LEOs feel they need to be armed against such weaponry.

As I've said before, the only purpose of such weapons is to be able to indiscriminately fire a hail of bullets at a fast pace.

The outpouring of support from all over has been incredible and helped with the healing. I can't tell you how good it feels to see people from Australia and many parts of the world holding up signs that say “We Are Orlando”. This event will not define Orlando. The aftermath of goodness from the first responders, to the hospitals keeping no more from dying, to the people on that JetBlue flight, to baseball and soccer games, to the Chick-fila's opening on a Sunday, to the 50,000 who went to the vigil downtown last night, and so many more acts of kindness will define Orlando.

I didn't write the original post to turn on a debate about guns. There's a time and a place for that. I wrote it because of the anger I was feeling towards that horrible cowardly pathetic excuse of a man. I wrote it because I was hurt and my city was hurt. When we went through the three hurricanes in 2004 we all in Orlando were in pretty bad moods. But it was nothing like this. I haven't seen this town so down since September 11, 2001. I wrote to help make sense of someone ambushing unsuspecting people. Adam and I are a part of the LGBT community although we don't practice anything that is related. We are just normal people raising a semi-normal family. No group should ever be ambushed.

I am feeling and will feel better. Some people won't, I get that. Some people will struggle with what happened to them forever, and that is sad. Others in other towns will be ambushed and that is very sad to me. I don't care which God you pray to because it is your choice to pray to whatever God. But there is not a viable God that would promote hate and violence that Orlando saw just 8 days ago. I think the plane hijackers were educated on that as soon as they crashed those planes. I also know Omar Mateen met God last Sunday morning and I'm quite sure that didn't go well for him.



The outpouring of support from all over the country, and indeed the world is a very hopeful sign and maybe, just maybe our lawmakers can at least start to address the issues the PEOPLE care about in regards to such traumatic events that have plagued us ALL, for far too long.