The car will crank but as stated; no spark, fuel, nor does the CEL come on at all.

I performed the K test on the MAP sensor, I got 5 volts, so I can assume the ECU is good..

I tested the Main Relay connector and it is getting power with the key ON.

The Main Relay, battery, and wiring harness from the ECU to the engine bay are all brand new.

Under-hood fuses have been tested.

Heading back out to the garage to test a few grounds and the under-dash fuses now. Just kind of stumped at this point though!

You have a bad ECU if the CEL NEVER comes on... it should come on when you first turn the key on before starting it (as in before engaging the starter).

Even if I am getting 5 volts at the MAP sensor connector?

When you turn the key past the accessory position to the run position... before pushing past that further to crank the starter the CEL should be on... as should all the other idiot lights. They don't go out until after its running.

Having 5 volts on one wire of the ecu doesn't mean the rest of it is funtioning. Its only One signal of many it needs to run correctly.

Ok, I guess I thought the K-Test was a catch-all type of test. But I get what you're saying. Is there another relay or fuse somewhere that could have failed causing the CEL not to come on even with a good ECU? And is there a way to 'bench test' the ECU?

Cel is wired directly to the ECU... it doesn't go through a relay. A 92 is ODB1, so a code reader is not going to work... I'm more familiar with the pre-91 civics and it's a totally different ECU and those were all ODB0 and codes are read differntly than yours.

THere should be a sticky at the top of the forum for readig codes on yours... I'd have to find it and read it to even know how exactly to do it on yuors... but it should at least be able to give an indication its alive even if the CEL isn't coming on... you don't want to replace that or anything else until you have a good reason to do it.


Just did a quick glance...I don't see anything on the ODB1 ECU's in the stickies....I have to go offline for a few hours, and I can look something up for you and post it when I get back if someone elses doesn't before then.

Check the ACG(ALT)S fuse in the under dash fuse box--this is the crucial fuse to test. If it's missing, replace it. Ensure the CEL bulb is not burned out and that the main ECM ground on the thermostat is cleaned.


Engine Won't Start, Check Engine Light (CEL) Doesn't Come On:

1. Engine won't start.

2. Turn ignition switch ON and observe CEL.

3. If CEL never comes on, even for two seconds, after ignition is turned ON, observe Low Oil Pressure Light (LOPL).

4. If LOPL doesn't come on, inspect Back-Up Light Fuse in under-hood fuse/relay box. If bad, replace; otherwise, repair open in YEL wire between Back-Up Light Fuse and gauge assembly.

5. Turn ignition switch ON.

6. Is CEL on? No, replace CEL bulb or repair open in GRN/ORN wire between ECM (A13) and gauge assembly. Yes, measure voltage between ground and terminals A23 and A24, individually.

7. Is there less than 1.0 volt? No, repair an open in wire between ECM and main ECM ground that had more than 1.0 volt. Yes, substitute a known-good ECM and recheck.

LOPL came on. I made sure the CEL bulb was good and tested. I also had less than 1 volt on each terminal (A23 & A24). The only options I have for swapping ECU's is to purchase a known good one.

On another note, I tested another main relay I have and it also clicks the same as the other. I then tested Terminal 1, with the ground on a clean chassis bolt. It registered 3-5 mV. The same results when Terminal 5 tested, with the ground in the same location as mentioned. The key was in the II position for all testing.

Again, all fuses tested good on each tab.

How To Pull CEL, D4, SRS, and ABS Codes (with Code Lists) - Honda-Tech (http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1901557)

THis will show you how to pull and understand any codes you might have on that car.

I've tried that but the CEL never comes on. Not when turning the key to II, nor when jumping the service connector.

***Update***

I figured out previous issues, which were due to some mis-routed wires as well as a failed fuel pump.

I now get fuel but no spark. Are there any specific tests I can do to test the distributor? Ignition coil? I will be borrowing a multi-meter again later to test if I have correct voltage when trying to start. Thanks for the help!

Does the CEL come on for 2 seconds and then go out, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II)?

Yes, it comes on for 2 seconds when key is turned to II, then goes off.

Now, focus on the distributor. Replacing the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil normally solves the problem. Be sure to apply silicone heat transfer compound to the back of the new ICM, otherwise it won't last long. This is the ideal time to replace the rotor and distributor cap.

Thanks TxGreaseMonkey! I found a testing walk-through for the ICM and coil, I'll preform those tonight and update accordingly. Earlier, when I opened up the distributor, I didn't notice and grime, burns, or really any signs of wear. Would you still recommend replacing the rotor and cap as a precautionary measure?

There are no reliable tests for ICMs and coils. Therefore, I recommend replacing them every 125,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first. These components are notorious for failing on Hondas. Frequently, it is excess resistance in rotors and distributor caps that causes ICMs and coils to fail. I would replace all of these items, starting with the ICM and coil, with aftermarket parts.

*Another Update*

I replaced the cap, rotor, coil and ICM with new parts. Still will not start, no backfires or a even a grunt - just cranks. But... I am now getting spark at each cylinder, verified with a spark test light. Discovered a small fuel leak at the hose/rail connection due to a washer issue. Ran the pump to flush out any bad gas, clean gas came out. Re-installed fuel line and no leaks. I can hear the injectors working and the spark plugs smell of gas when pulled. Plugs are good by the way, not new but good.

I currently have just a header for exhaust, after trying to start the engine I noticed smoke/exhaust gas coming out. I assume this means at least some of the fuel is being ignited..

I checked mechanical timing and I am off by 2 degrees. I've gotten mixed opinions on whether this would cause a no start or just very poor performance. I will get the proper tools this weekend and re-adjust the timing.

Ensure that your new ignition parts are installed in a genuine Honda distributor housing--all others are junk and unreliable. They can't get the internal sensors (CKP, TDC, and CYL) right on aftermarket distributor housings. Also, loosen the 3 distributor mounting bolts and rotate the distributor slightly counter-clockwise (CCW), in order to advance the timing. Victory is very close--don't give up!

Thanks, It's getting frustrating! Haha I'm 90 percent sure the housing is OEM, I bought the engine/transmission from a reliable place and everything else on the motor looks to be Honda genuine. The cap, rotor, coil, and ICM I replace are Beck/Arnley.

Should I rotate the distributor CCW before or after I fix the timing belt?

Rotate the distributor CCW, before fixing the timing belt. Later, you can set the timing with a timing light. Right now, you just want to get it to start. My gut is that your timing is retarded too much.

Ok, I rotated the distributor CCW. I now get a muffled pop noise every 3-4 seconds when cranking, not a boom though (small backfire I assume? ). But still no start. I have also developed a whining/buzz sound after cranking and leaving the key in the II position, it goes away when turning the key back. It is definitely coming from the engine/back of engine and is not the fuel pump.

The pop/small backfire sounds like the timing is still retarded too much. I would remove the valve cover and the timing belt covers and check the timing marks. Make sure the timing belt is not off a tooth and that the timing belt is "banjo" tight on the front. Set the timing belt tension at TDC on the compression stroke. When the tensioner is loose, rotate the crankshaft 3-teeth counter-clockwise to properly tension the belt. Afterwards, torque the tensioner bolt to 33 lb.-ft. After that, I would remove the spark plugs and check each cylinder's compression.

Are the main relay, wiring harness, and ECM the same as what originally came in your Civic? Is the whining/buzz sound coming from the main relay?

The timing belt is off by at least 1 tooth. I am in the middle of doing the timing belt right now, I will do the compression test after if I can get the kit. Otherwise I have a leakdown kit and just need an extra set of hands.

The main relay is OEM and the correct part for my chassis. The car is a 1992 Civic CX hatchback, the motor is a 1994 Acura Integra LS. Both chassis and motor are non-VTEC and OBD1.

As for the harness, all interior harnesses are original. I got a 'RYWIRE' harness that goes from the ECU to the engine since original harness had missing plugs. The ECU is OEM and the correct part for the motor I have. Hope that helps you a little better.

The buzzing sound is coming from the rear of the motor/engine bay somewhere. It definitely isn't the main relay or the fuel pump.

Make sure the timing belt is not off a tooth and that the timing belt is "banjo" tight on the front. Set the timing belt tension at TDC on the compression stroke. When the tensioner is loose, rotate the crankshaft 3-teeth counter-clockwise to properly tension the belt. Afterwards, torque the tensioner bolt to 30 lb.-ft.


When I rotate the crankshaft pulley, the timing gets thrown off again. I just got done with my 2nd try on it and am stumped.

Did you remove the crankshaft pulley bolt, crankshaft pulley and key, upper and lower timing belt covers, and concave timing belt guide, in order to set the timing mark on the crankshaft timing belt pulley with the pointer on the oil pump? Did you set the TDC marks on the camshaft pulley with the cylinder head upper surface, loosen the tensioner adjusting bolt, install the timing belt, properly set the tension on the timing belt (TDC on the compression stroke), and torque the tensioner adjusting bolt to 33 lb.-ft. If you did, the timing should not change.

Ensure the timing belt is the proper one for the engine. The pulley bolt should be torqued to 134 lb.-ft., when the threads are dipped into clean engine oil.

Did you remove the crankshaft pulley bolt, crankshaft pulley and key, upper and lower timing belt covers, and concave timing belt guide, in order to set the timing mark on the crankshaft timing belt pulley with the pointer on the oil pump?

There is a white indented line on the crank gear, I will look right now but.. Isn't this to make sure I'm at TDC on the exhaust stroke? If so, I am at TDC.




Did you set the TDC marks on the camshaft pulley with the cylinder head upper surface, loosen the tensioner adjusting bolt, install the timing belt, properly set the tension on the timing belt (TDC on the compression stroke), and torque the tensioner adjusting bolt to 33 lb.-ft. If you did, the timing should not change.

The arrow on each cam gear is pointing up and the notches on each side of the cam gears are pointing straight at each other. And cylinder 1 is at TDC on the exhaust stroke.

I think what is messing me up is when I rotate the crank 3 teeth, I took this to mean 3 teeth on the cam gears. Thus throwing everything out of time when tension is applied... right?

Once you line up the timing marks, install the timing belt with the tensioner bolt loose but the spring attached, rotate the crank bolt several turns to ensure everything works properly. Stop rotating the crank bolt counter-clockwise, when you are at TDC on the compression stroke (you can feel the resistance) and all the timing marks are lined up. Then, rotate the crank bolt counter-clockwise 3-teeth on the camshaft. This should properly tension the timing belt; then, torque the tensioner bolt to 33 lb.-ft. This will "set" the mechanical timing of the engine.

It just occurred to me that you might have a DOHC engine--if so, you need to consult a shop manual on the procedure.

Then, rotate the crank bolt counter-clockwise 3-teeth on the camshaft. This should properly tension the timing belt; then, torque the tensioner bolt to 33 lb.-ft. This will "set" the mechanical timing of the engine.

This is the part that is confusing me... After rotating the crank CCW 3 teeth on the camshaft, the UP arrows on the camshaft gears won't be pointing UP any longer, correct?


It just occurred to me that you might have a DOHC engine--if so, you need to consult a shop manual on the procedure.

I do, but you are still correct in the steps. Only difference seems to me marking points, which I found in the manual.

After you get the timing marks lined up and the timing belt installed, the timing is fixed. It doesn't change when the crank bolt is rotated 3-teeth past TDC on the camshaft pulley, while it's on the compression stroke--this only increases the tension on the tensioner. If you reflect on this, you'll say, "Now, I understand."

See if your manual tells you some other way to set the timing belt tension for your DOHC engine.

I've got it! Tension is tight and my markings all line up! I'm going to eat supper then button everything up and try to crank her over again. Depending on what happens, I'll update the status and run compression tests tomorrow. Thank you for your time, much appreciated!!

Great.

Timing Belt Installation Tip: Temporarily install the crank pulley bolt, before installing the timing belt guide, covers, and crankshaft pulley and key. This allows you to triple check everything and have room to get a torque wrench in to torque the tensioner's adjusting bolt.

After doing the timing belt, I still get nothing when cranking it over. Even after messing with the distributor timing.

The leak down test results are:
#1 = 69psi
#2 = 69psi
#3 = 72psi
#4 = 70psi

Each cylinder was at TDC for its own test and the max I let through was 80psi. According to Honda specifications, I am at/around the 10% loss threshold.

Fuel Pressure: I also acquired a fuel pressure gauge that mounts onto the top of the fuel filter. I believe the normal fuel pressure is around 45psi, while my gauge is reading 22psi. Is fuel pressure the same whether the car is cranking or actually running?

Not good numbers on either count. Fuel pressure will increase somewhat when running, but 22 psi is woefully low and preventing the fuel rail from fully pressurizing. With such a low number, the engine won't start. It looks like the next step is to install a new fuel pump, unless the fuel filter is really plugged.

Brand new fuel pump a few weeks ago. I will replace OEM fuel filter and try to flush out the fuel line.

It's likely the fuel filter.

Ugh... the new fuel filter did nothing, pressure is still at about 22 psi. I guess the gauge could be wrong. Possibly a fuel pressure regulator problem?

Thoughts:

. Ensure there's more than a token amount of fuel in the tank.

. Turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II), until the CEL goes out, then to OFF. Repeat this procedure at least three more times. On the final attempt, turn the ignition switch to START and see if the engine starts. This should, hopefully, fully pressurize the fuel rail.