In 2001 I was awarded sole legal and physical custody of the child in question in the dispute of paternity. This was done by stipulation and agreement of the parties incorporated into a final decree. Father was granted to pay support, keep medical and if he wanted to exercise visitation he had to call 24 hours in advance or it was a no go.

In 2006, October, I was hospitalized on the 4th. On October 6, 2006 the father came down with faked legal documents and insisted my mother (was caring for my children temporarily) give our child to him.

On October 13 I was released to find my child had been taken out of state by the parent with no rights just obligations.

For 6 months he held the child against his will and refused my demands to return the child, and suddenly he sends a "new decree" saying he's got sole custody, and yet our original stipulation and agreement forever discharged each party from any and all claims demands or actions asserted in the Cross-Claim. (his requests were custody, visitation, support and insurance coverage of child)... how could he even have a new decree based on this alone? Didn't he just agree in initial decree to no parental rights, just obligations?

You can't give up future rights. What was in writing and approved by the courts wasnt totally valid when it was signed off. Either parent could have gone back and have it changed. There wasnt an adoption or anything of the sort. So it wasnt meant to be forever.

The time to act would have been back in 2006. What is the reasoning for waiting until 2014 to do anything about it? What courts were used for the first agreement and then the one you claim he has now? Were they different? If so did they follow the rules of uccjea ?

Do you have a lawyer working on this? What has changed ?

So 7 1/2 years ago your ex, the father of the child, took the child. And now you are wanting to do something about it? What state are you in? What state is the child in? What have you been doing for the last 7 1/2 years? As already pointed out agreements like that can be changed by going back to court. The original court order was back in 2001 by 2006 a judge would listen to the case again if one of the parties petitioned the court for a modification.

Have you kept in contact with the other parent and child? You are asking how to get the child back. I would recommend getting a lawyer in whatever area has jurisdiction now and go back to court. How old is the child now? S/he has to be at least 12 (but probably older). In some states, not all, if the child (of that age or older) has a preference the judge will listen to what the child wants. That doesn't mean the child gets to choose but that the judge will take their opinion into consideration.

First, how do you know the documents he used in 2006 were faked? Second, what court issued this decree?

But the question of what have you been doing for 7 1/2 yrs is valid. While parental kidnapping was not as well established then as it is now. The facts, according to you, are that he violated a standing court order and grabbed the child and has been keeping the child from you.

What you should have done is go to the court that issued the order and ask that a warrant be issued for him to return the child or face arrest for contempt of court. Such an order would have been honored by another state. If he was hiding from you, I would have called in the
FBI.

As cdad stated, unless rights were terminated, he had a right to go back to court and apply for a change. But he would have had to go back to the court that issued the original order and you would have had to have been informed and given a chance to respond.

So for us to help, we really need to know what has been happening since 2006. Also any question on law needs to include your general locale as laws vary by area.

Other than the obvious question of why she has apparently done nothing for the past eight years, I would also point out that
1. The second decree appears to be invalid as being in violation of OCCJEA; and
2. The second decree would have problems for apparent invalid service of process.

OP needs to get an attorney of course.

Okay, here's the facts.

After I got out of the hospital, my mother said he handed her legal documents, which were fraudulent cause no judge signed them. The one the judge did sign said specifically, "Must be served on the defendant". So he knew I was in the hospital, couldn't serve me, so he left my mother with what she had no idea were not legal papers. I called him immediately to demand he bring my child back because he was going against a court order, and he laughed and said I was never going to get custody of my child again and hung up. Refused calls, mail, texts wouldn't respond, emails and such. Meanwhile I've got DCFS in my life (the child he took was in their records too) and yes I knew jurisdiction was here, so when he finally "served me by certified mail" on the 16th of October, (mind you this is 10 days now he kidnapped my child) I responded with how he lied about everything he claimed in the temporary order. He claimed being the primary parent, the child lived in his state for 6 months and so on. I then put in my own motion to dismiss based on improper venue, and for some odd fricken reason, I didn't get any response on anything, and mind you I'm still dealing with DCFS down here, and finally I get a notice of hearing on April 4, 2007!! He totally kidnapped my child for 6.5 months before a hearing was set!! In that time, he changed where he lived, never notifying me, wouldn't answer my calls and when he did wouldn't let me talk to my son, and would never allow me to visit or see my son.

Suddenly, after the hearing, expecting to come home with my son... (mind you the hearing was for a default judgement), no modification of decree hearing at all, and I've no idea what happened, cause the judge never said that custody changed or anything... but after I got home, praying to get some money to get my son back, I start getting things in the mail, like a response to my motion to dismiss... (backdated Nov 15, 2006) even though the petitioners attorney had no clue of the motion on file on April 5, 2007... then child support order and this fraudulent modified custody order... so I had no clue what to do.

I knew what he was doing to my son mentally and I knew he had money for attorneys and I didn't so I didn't want to do anything till I could assure my child wouldn't have to go through any "if ands or butts anymore" and let's just say I'm not a rich person by any means.

Well in December last year, 2013, after months of being denied or (not answered) I tried getting visitation, and instead I got belittled, yelled at, threatened my life, and so I got mad, real mad. I mean this guy has tried to alienate me and my child from one another, demeaned me and tried to convince my child to hate me in every way possible, and I'd had it. So I started ordering all the court files on record. I found there is no Motion to Modify Custody, there is no affidavit to a motion to modify, and then I remembered how he got my son! He tried to get police to serve illegal documents on my mother and they refused, so I called the police in the city I used to live, and low and behold, they had record of him coming in with documents they would not serve because they lacked a judge's signature. He then asked them" if they could assist him in keeping the peace while he got his son from the bus stop". He had no set visitation, and I was never given 24 hour notice as stated to be required if he wanted to exercise visitation. So as the police stood by trying to "supposedly keep the peace" he handed my mother these illegal documents, saying, "Just pack his things, you don't want to cause a scene, and that's why the police are here."... I hate him!!

And yes, it took me 7 years, to figure out that the documents were fraudulent because I thought... or trusted, that you can't just file illegal documents in any court file you want to and it's acknowledged as legal. And yes, under the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act, the jurisdiction was here, until he kidnapped him for 6.5 months. Which is why I didn't understand why my motion to dismissed based on Improper Venue was not accepted. But hello, it should have been by default! ARGH! Oh and the decree is by stipulation and agreement, (he's only got rights to pay child support, provide medical insurance, and if I say, have visitation.)

Oh and just since I forgot, in my ranting off facts, I was in Utah, and he was Wyoming. The initial decree was issued in Wyoming, but it was to be a full, complete, binding and final decree and it states here, "Any Court Order or Decree pursuant to WS 20-2-201 -204 and 311(d) can be enforced or modified and that any such modification may not be effective prior to the date of filing an appropriate motion or petition for modification.

Did the police, in fact, come with him to get your son? If so and you have proof that the police knew the documents were not valid, I would file suit against the police department.

You didn't make it clear what the DCFS issue was about.

But the bottom line here is that he violated a court order. It may be too late now to get the Wyoming court to issue a warrant, but that's the first thing I would try. I would also go to the FBI and pursue parental kidnapping charges.

Part of the problem here is that you were going up against his lawyers without one of your own. That's a recipe for disaster. His lawyers will know how to play the system.

How old is your son now? He would have to be at least 14. Frankly, with more than 6 years of brain washing, it might be impossible to recover him.

Okay, so if I'm reading this right, you were in Wyoming when the original order back in 2001 was made. If that is true, how long after did you move to Utah? That decree is final until modified by the court again. That is why it says that it "can be enforced or modified and that any such modification may not be effective prior to the date of filling an appropriate motion or petition for modification." Meaning that the modification would not be valid before anyone filled for the modification but can be modified. It wasn't set in stone forever with out the possibility of change.

That being said I agree that your biggest downfall was trying to fight his attorney(s) by yourself. Did you make DCFS aware that he was no longer with you? Did that help to clear up their concerns about him or make it worse? Have you talked to a couple attorneys to see what they want to take on your case?

You also said that you checked with the court and no motions for modification were ever filled. Did you check with both courts or just one? Knowing that he has at least one lawyer they would know what and where to file.

The police don't say they assisted in keeping the peace, but they didn't say they didn't either. Yes, I have the police narratives that say the police told him they needed something signed by a judge.

My son wants to be here, and I'm fighting cause he's ruined my child as far as mental and physical and emotional health go. Shortly after being stolen by his paternal parent, he was diagnosed emotionally disturbed. Now he's severely emotionally disturbed. Weighs 194 lbs, hasn't been to get a blood draw in the 2 years he's been on Abilify and has not been to a dentist in two years and has obvious cavities. Oh let us not forget that I have proof that the father changed the middle name of the child so he could put him in schools and I am thinking so he could get illegal medicaid.

Oh wait, his father also has a child abuse charge from 3 years prior to the kidnapping, and I have him recorded stating he hates me and my other child (who he has been stalking), because we told the police and he lost his teaching career. I mean shall I go on?

I am putting in a motion to vacate the order he put in, due to improper process and fraud and illegal activity by the father that led to the falsified order. The judge sent it back stating a couple things, so I think he's telling me to ensure the points in the motion. His note was "I will not sign. No compliance with notice requirements of Rule 65. No compliance with the Rule 801 Uniform Rules for District Court. No showing this court has jurisdiction."

So does this mean I have to put in a certificate of service to the kidnapper with the motion and claim the jurisdiction is in the court pursuant to the Wyoming Statute 20-2-203?

Why have you not called the states attorney where he lives or the DCFS in the state he resides? You paint a compelling case for criminal charges.

I think stinawords may have misread something or I did. I got the impression that you got the original order in WY and you are still there, but that the father moved the child to Utah. Is that correct?

I must have misunderstood. I thought you said the police went with him to pick up your son.

But I agree with Tal. Go to the local FBI office TODAY with what proof you have. Seek their advice or assistance.

From what you have said, it sounded like you have had little or no contact, so how do you know so much your son's medical conditions and treatment? And you never answered how old he is.

As for filing a petition with the court. The judge is apparently being a stickler for form and wants the paperwork filled out properly. Probably because he knows your husband has attorneys so wants to make sure they can't tear things apart. If you can't afford an attorney, then check with local law schools. Many have clinics that will help you prepare the paperwork.

But you have to be relentless with this and you haven't been.

I dont agree with going to the FBI at this time. There really is no reason for it. The OP needs to calm down if they want to get anywhere.

To OP:

How much of the paper trail do you actually have in hand at this time? Are you sure you have all of it? If the case priginated in Wyoming then it is for now the juridiction of the Wyoming dourts so long as one of the parties still lives there. That is the only court you need to deal with.

You can try overturning for improper service but so much time has passed I think it is a waste of time. You can file for a modification and present your evidence at the hearing / trial. Otherwise you risk wasting the courts time with accusations and rehashing the past.

I don't believe filing for a modification is the best move. Doing so tacitly acknowledges the false petitions filed by the father. The OP has a standing order issued by the court. According to her, no valid court orders have been issued to change that order. Therefore any attempts to process an order by another court should be vacated as lacking jurisdiction and the existing order should be enforced.

The OP has two states attorneys to air her concerns and initiate an investigation Wyoming and Utah. I would contact them both.

Here in lies the problem. We dont know how much of the paper trail the OP is actually seeing. Also it appears that somewhere along the line there is a secondary standing order from the courts. The one the OP makes claim of from 2007. Too much time has passed to hold the courts interest and the ultimate goal is the return of the child. By filing for a modification then it can all be laid out. If the OP is correct then the courts will make the change. If not then things will stand as they are. I understand the OP is upset but they are making allegations and then proving them false in this thread. If you have no contact that is exactly what it means. But yet they claim to know the condition of the child and to have spoken to them. Which is it? The courts have the power to quash the previous order if it has no standing. But if the OP goes in making wild claims and it is of no legal standing then the courts will weight it out and make a decision.

I do agree the OP has issued some conflicting statements. I've questioned some of them too. And the amount of time that has passed is a cause for concern. I'm just not sure any admission that any order issued after 2001 is valid would serve the OP. At lot depends, though, on how factual the information she's posted is.

This is what I see that has the most telling part of this so far.

The OP said:
Suddenly, after the hearing, expecting to come home with my son... (mind you the hearing was for a default judgement), no modification of decree hearing at all, and I've no idea what happened, cause the judge never said that custody changed or anything...

To me it means they attended the hearing that was in 2007. It doesnt appear that things were followed through at that time. The OP was there in front of a judge when the decision was made. It appears the OP was given time to attend as the hearing was for a default judement. From those events Im not sure what has been going on. I believe the OP tried to go at it alone and was overwhelemed. Its not hard to do with the judicial system. But they did have thier day in court. That is why I dont recommend going to the FBI at this time. If OP can prove documents were falsified then the judge can order that looked into by the Ag.

There are too many unknown factors and inconsistencies for any of us to assume what the OP's next action should be except borrow money for a real consultation with a lawyer (free consultation?) or file a complaint for free with state officials.

Having no lawyer (first hand legal advice) seems to have been the problem in the first place and 6/7 years later, it still the case.

Having no lawyer (first hand legal advice) seems to have been the problem in the first place and 6/7 years later, it still the case.

Totally agree. Plus an ex who had money and could manipulate the system. Just wondering why it took him 5 years to pull this in the first place. Maybe he just saw his opportunity when the OP was hospitalized. Though this smacks of some planning.

Scott it may have been a factor that the OP at that time was involved with dcfs. The ex may have seen that as a golden opportunity. We dont know anything about what was going on at that time.

It is entirely possible that I didn't understand what op was saying about what states people are in. "I was in Utah, and he was Wyoming" I took this to mean that (because the original order was in Wyoming) they were both in Wyoming to get the original order and she moved to Utah while the father stayed in Wyoming. In the last post from op it say's at note from the judge to op included that the court he presides in does not have jurisdiction.

This, as well as the contradicting statements with not having contact but yet knowing large amounts of the child's lack of care, and the involvement of DCFS makes it hard for many to agree on what exactly should be the next step. I too would not advise contacting the FBI. At least not until a lawyer (in the proper state) has time to get all the facts in front of them because this seems to be a very large tangled situation not just a straight forward violation of court order.

And, so, until op comes back to untangle some of this, I (at least) can't offer much more.

OMG you guys... due to the rules of the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction And Enforcement Act , his entire order to modify the initial decree is null and void!

He took the child on October 6, 2006 from the child's Home State, Utah. He supposedly was awarded custody on April 4, 2007. That is void by the fact that the Jurisdiction or Courts of Wyoming had not been established as the home state by 1 day! He lived in Wyoming with his Kidnapping father for exactly 5 months 29 days... He loses either way! Oh man oh man... to file these papers is going to bring so much relief.

His parental rights will certainly be terminated after this... thank the good lord.

Oh and in case you all weren't told yet, the case with DCFS was void as were all the allegations in a court of law. All of his allegations and statements in the petition for temporary custody were lies, not proven in any way shape or form and even in his fake Modified Decree, are fake statements of supposed facts that are in no way true.

Isn't there just a simple letter I can send to the courts to look over the case file and ensure it's not been tampered or wrong?

In one sentence you say that "to file these papers is going to bring so much relief" as though you have papers ready to file. Then in the same post you ask if there isn't just a simple letter you can send the court. Which one is it?

Also, why in the world would we have been told that the DCFS case was void? We don't dig into things like that we rely only on what you tell us. That is where a paid attorney comes into play.

Why did the judge you last talked about say that the court didn't have jurisdiction? So to be clear the child, until taken by his father, never lived in Wyoming. Correct? Have you scheduled any consultations with any lawyers to represent you yet? If not and the father still has attorney's you are still fighting an up hill battle.

If you are so sure that you are the only parent with legal custody then why are you sitting here asking for free advice? Why not just go pick up your son? If you are scared of your ex bring your court papers showing that you have physical custody with you and ask for a police escort like he did.

First, you have said that the original order was issued in WY. Therefore, WY Has jurisdiction until the case is moved to another jurisdiction. However, it is true that preference is given to the child's home state. But one of the parties would have to petition for jurisdiction to be moved. So, if he filed in WY, telling WY it didn't have jurisdiction was incorrect. If, however, you had petitioned that the case be moved to Utah, you should have won that.

And I doubt if he parental rights will be terminated. Not unless he is convicted of criminal action in these matters and even then its not a given.

Maybe he didn't prove the allegations, but did you disprove them? A court of law can be a funny place, in many ways it can be up to the whim of the judge as long as he acts within the law.

I went to Wyoming today and put in for a motion and order to show cause... he's going to be a gonner! Can't wait to get that order in the mail... cause either he surrenders the kid and pays me 43,500 or he's in contempt! Woot Woot!

So the judge already told you that he will be returning the child and paying $43,500? Glad they worked so quickly for you!

What, exactly, does the order say? Generally an order to show cause gives the subject the opportunity to appear in court and show cause why he shouldn't whatever.

To Stinawords: The judge stated that I did not mention in the order to vacate that the court had jurisdiction over this case, and I didn't do proper service. Then after figuring out last night, that when calculated, his court order is totally fraudulent. The child lived in Wyoming from October 6, and the court hearing about a judgement default on a "emergency motion for ex-parte temporary custody order" no motion was put in requesting to modify the original order, and it could never have been considering the day we went to court was April 4, 2007, which equals 5 months 29 days. No commencement of any action of custody can even start unless the child resides in the state for 6 months prior to the proceeding. So him claiming the judgement was ordered April 4th, still makes it invalid, and never in the hearing did I hear the judge "order" anything, so his entire filing with the court an order that was never initiated (because it couldn't have been had he attached an been truthful about a previous order existing), but he said he never was a party to any other litigation concerning said child in this or any state. Also claimed that to his knowledge, no one had temporary or physical custody of the child. Everything he claimed was just a huge lie... he's in deep doo doo, and I can't wait till the Sheriff serves him, cause he either returns the child and pays up, or shows up at the hearing and goes to jail anyway. :D Then I can bring the evidence down here to the police department in the city where he did take the child (which I already have a parental kidnapping case being investigated) Interstate no less, and they can prosecute him even further. :D I'm so excited I could poop!

No, I put in the motion and order and affidavit, and service and summons today. I filed it all with the court and paid for service by the Sheriff when the judge signs the order. Wyoming is whack. The judge is in Kemmerer for some of the week and then in Evanston the other part, and so tomorrow he will see it, look over the files in the case, (which by now I know he is completely familiar with, and the Order I attached, which is the original "Final" decree, and once he signs it, it will be served on the father. :D I'm just anxiously awaiting the Green light that service was completed, and then there is a "dismissed" page, where if he and I sign it, he won't have to appear in court to show why he shouldn't be held in contempt, and mind you, that means he returned the child and paid up. If I don't sign it, even if he returns the child, and doesn't pay up, he still has to appear. I can't wait to see him in court trying to convince the judge that his "fake order" is legal :D Oh and where he thought he had permission in the decree to changed the child's name, lie about everything in his initial motion for temporary custody, and oh yeah, why he's in violation of bringing any action against me to which said decree states that the parties hereby completely release and forever discharge each other from any and all claims, demands, or actions now asserted in or arising from, those asserted in the Cross-Claim. :D

The Order says:
The Movant is seeking ENFORCEMENT of an Order regarding visitation custody child support. The affidavit is what I'm claiming he did in violation of the order, and continues to do. Not to mention the fact that the original Decree states, and that any such modification may not be effective prior to the date of filing an appropriate motion or petition for modification.

Trust me I've looked at the motion to Modify.. it's like a huge packet, and yeah, he did not in any way whatsoever filed any or all of the required documents.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Wowzer, scratch everything... it's not an order... our initial papers are an ABSOLUTE DECREE. Final.. suck it up, you are a loser and you know it, and I'm just going to show it to the world that you are lower than the lowest, by letting you be you... and then you can die in prison, for filing false documents in this state and the other state which never signed, but you forged, and every state will have your head on a platter, waiting to get justice! Decree and order, are completely different... Decree is FINALITY... I fricken knew it... oh let him burn in hell.. or in jail, cause he's already in hell... I'm requesting school records, where he is enrolled under a "fake name", and I already looked into the registration laws of the school, which states they need a birth certificate, and blah blah blah... so they didn't make a mistake in the paper, they have copies on file of his criminal behavior... oh and yeah, I sent off for all birth certificates on file with the vital statistics in Wyoming... and just for proof positive... the other school he was enrolled in, right around the corner from his house, had my son registered under another FAKE NAME! They sent me a damned report card from 2008-2009... and I barely opened it, cause I couldn't bring myself to accept that my son, was taken and then given and legally allowed (couldn't wrap my mind around it) to be kidnapped and taken when I knew the decree was permanent... I've always insisted his father stole him... always... and had his father not threatened my life in December... I may still have been in the dark, but that pissed me off and made me fight... and fight hard... son of a...

I'm sorry but your understanding of the law leaves a lot to be desired. An absolute decree does not mean it is absolutely final. It means that the marriage is completely over and both parties are free to remarry. It does not mean he can't file for modification of the terms of the agreement at some future time if he can justify that modification. But it does not mean he can falsify documents or violate the terms of the decree. He must abide by those terms until and unless a court modifies them.

If he does violate them, then he is in contempt of court. Being found to be in contempt of court carries penalties pretty much at the discretion of the judge. Those penalties can be anywhere from a fine to jail time. A "Show Cause" order is probably stating that he has to appear at a hearing to show why he should not be found in contempt. You said it reads; "The Movant is seeking ENFORCEMENT of an Order regarding visitation custody child support.". This is what I said you should have done as soon as you found out he had taken your son. The Movant is you. And you are moving that the court enforce the original decree issued in 2001 since there has been no legal order modifying it. You needed to submit proof that he has violated that agreement, which is pretty obvious.

So the next step is serving him with the order. I would hire a process server to ensure service. You can ask the court that he reimburse you for your court costs.

I'm assuming that the order states that he must return the child to you and pay any arrears in child support. My guess is he is going to do one of two things. Either he is going to try and disappear or he is going to court to fight it and will produce whatever evidence he can that he didn't violate the decree. If he has a good job, I doubt if he will disappear as that would mean going underground.

Does the order give a time frame by which he has to comply?

I have to agree that that interpretation of the wording is not quite right. In any order there should be a time frame given by the judge to comply. What is that time frame? Also, if he has lawyer(s) are they going to show up in court as well? For quite a while I have been wondering who drew up the papers that he has been using. Did his lawyer(s) help with that too? I am wondering because if they did forge documents that he used the judge may hold them as (if not more) responsible. Do you have any idea where/how the illegal documents were obtained?

I'm glad you are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

When is your hearing date or date for trial ?

I'm going to call in the morning to find out if the judge signed and when the hearing date is. All I know is they said it was going to be in his papers to look over today, and after he signed it they would place it in the "service" box, where the Sheriff come's daily and serves people. I left it with the service payment so as to not have any hiccups. Yes, my fear is that he will flee, and yet, he's already under the microscope with DCFS and all the state and local authorities both in Utah and Wyoming are all aware of my claims so they might already have him tracked without his knowledge. His fake decree, I cannot be certain as to who drafted it, because he began the "action" pro-se, and when I answered with a demand to return my child immediately he quit answering my calls and refused any mail from me. Apparently moved as well, and when we showed up in court on April 4, 2007 he had an attorney that wasn't a participant to the initial action, so I've no idea, who did what, but I do know that the attorney asked the judge to be allowed to withdraw from representation based on certain laws (which he has in there, which pertain to "repugnant" client requests, criminal in nature) code of professional conduct.

And as per the Decree thing, it is final. All of the terms agreed to in the Stipulation and Agreement were made final, absolute and binding. All parties forever released and discharged each other from any claims, actions or demands granted relief once incorporated in a final decree incorporating the terms of the Stipulation and Agreement. Any modification of said decree or agreement, must be made in writing by the parties, and upon filing an appropriate motion.

The parties hereby stipulate and agree:
1. That if a final Paternity Decree is granted and awarded to
Either of the parties incorporating the provisions contained
Herein, the terms of this Stipulation and Agreement shall
Constitute a full, complete and final settlement between the
2
Parties with regard to certain rights and duties arising from their
Relationship, specifically with regard to their respective rights
To custody of the minor Child, child support payments in connection
Therewith, insurance coverage for said Child, visitation rights to
Said Child, and all other matters at issue in the Cross-Claim.
2. That the parties intend that the terms of this Agreement
Shall be incorporated into any final Decree of Paternity and
Support ("Decree") made and entered herein.

1. Release and Discharge:
In consideration of the mutual promises called for herein, and
For other good and valuable consideration, receipt of which is
Hereby acknowledged, the parties hereby completely release and
Forever discharge each other from any and all claims, demands or
Actions now asserted in or arising from, those asserted in the
Cross-Claim. This release shall be a fully binding and complete
Settlement of said claims asserted in the Cross-Claim, between
Father and Mother, upon execution of this Agreement and the filing
Of any Decree incorporating its terms.

2. Specific Release
The parties hereby acknowledge and agree that the release set
Forth in Paragraph 1 hereof is a specific release of claims set
Forth in the Cross-Claim, and is not a general waiver of any other
Claims which exist as of this date but of which the parties do not
Know or suspect to exist.

Any modification of this Agreement must be in
Writing and signed by the parties; no waiver of any breach hereof
Or default hereunder shall be deemed a waiver of any subsequent
Breach or default of the same or similar nature.

Oh and about the time frame to comply question, there was a section after "Enforce the Order" (which mind you I attached the real decree when I filed, along with the stipulation and agreement), and the section after asked if I requested anything else from the court in which I wrote, "Assistance in the Immediate safe return of the child to the mother, and deeming his "order modifying decree" invalid, unenforceable, illegal and whatever sanctions the court further deems appropriate.

OK, First, lets look at this clause:

Any modification of said decree or agreement, must be made in writing by the parties, and upon filing an appropriate motion.

This backs up what we have been saying. That the original decree CAN be modified but only by getting a court to order it.

Second,

they said it was going to be in his papers to look over today, and after he signed it they would place it in the "service" box,

Ok, so the judge hasn't signed the order yet, but when he does, you have already arranged for service. That's good! Its not clear whether you know where he currently is or where your son goes to school. If you know either of those. Then I would request that the judge issue you an order to assume custody of your son at least until the hearing and to also schedule a hearing. If you can get the judge to issue that order, then I would go and pick him up. If you know where the school is then I would go to the school, go to the principal and show him/her the order then take your son home. You might want to go to the local police first, show them the order and ask them to accompany you. Or, at least, be prepared to come to the school if the school doesn't cooperate.

If you can't get such an order, then you have to wait for the hearing. If he doesn't show or turn over your son by then, an arrest warrant can be issued.

It certainly looks like you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Though this should have been done long before now.

I know it should have, but if you're me, and you're getting all these "papers that look legal" you just shake your head going, "how?" When I learned of the new name he gave him and him concealing his identity and everything else I looked closer at the whole file, which cost me a good 60 some dollars for just "copies", then I had to get certified copies. then I called police and they were like "2006?" and yeah it sounds weird but still, who in the world can put illegal documents in a file? That's what I couldn't go to the judge saying unless I wanted to look like a bigger fool. DCFS wouldn't help, just shrugged their shoulders, and I was just stuck. I think the motion to show cause, also states the judge will review the file, (which I've been requesting for two months now, but didn't know you had to do it in some specific way......) I mean, I'm wondering if I should have had the service be on his attorney in the first Decree, or if serving just him is all I need? Any help in this would be grand.

If he does still have the attorney representing him then he can pass the notice along to him/her at this point. Then the attorney can make the court aware that they are representing him so communication can be directed through them. Did you ever find out if the judge signed anything since you submitted your last petition? Has there been a court date set? As long as you got everything into the judges office then you are waiting on the judge to make a move. If they won't tell you over the phone then you should still receive a letter in the mail.

You seem a little calmer now. Maybe even a little more level headed after having certain things explained better. Legal documents can be confusing that is understandable. Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

I certainly understand being confused and intimidated by legal documents. But that's when you consult someone to help you wade through the legalese. The major fact here is that he can't change the original decree without a hearing that you attended. Had you understood that one fact, it brings all his other actions into question.

How can a Decree be changed without a proper motion? From what I've read and investigated you first must have a motion, then an affidavit, then an order.And I called on Thursday and didn't hear anything yet, they said it was in the judges office. Why does my head keep going back to Writ of Assistance? And whether it should be ex parte or not?

That's the point we made initially. The decree can be changed but only by going through proper procedures. Now its possible he lied about service and got a default decree when you didn't show. But that can then be overturned. That's why the advice has always been to get the court to enforce the decree.

::wiping sweat from forehead:: You almost gave me a panic attack. I got hold of this service, they intend to charge me $600 minimum to fill out an exparte order for custody. Not sure what to think about that. I just need someone to look over the docs I have filled out to see if any details need changing to file them correctly... and that should not cost me no $600... argh! Where are all the attorneys that are supposed to give so many pro bono hours a year? I mean, do they even exist anymore? I've read up on the code and ethics part of attorneys and that's in there, but where to find them... ::staying calm:: deep zen breathing.

And yes, you guys have helped me in so many ways it's crazy. Like how to wrap my head around a document that could mean all the difference in fubbing up a case entirely or prevailing is stress at it's utmost degree. Making mistakes are part of human nature, but this is my child at stake here, and his well being... So crazy nervous, and your answers and insight have certainly helped me maintain some sense of relief... just feel like I'm still missing something... Like that motion to vacate that judgement/order he put in.. and prepare it properly so I don't get it sent back again with non compliance areas addressed.

Check with local law schools. Many have clinics that can help with paperwork.

Also, I'm not sure if you need an order for custody. You already have one. You just need the court to enforce it.

(b) Except as otherwise provided in W.S. 14-2-607 and 14-2-608, a valid denial of paternity by a presumed father filed with the state office of vital records in conjunction with a valid acknowledgment of paternity is equivalent to an adjudication of the nonpaternity of the presumed father and discharges the presumed father from all rights and duties of a parent.

Which means he has no rights... he never brought forth a proceeding to rescind his denial of paternity... this guy is beyond a kidnapper.

I'm confused. He filed a denial of paternity? Was that before or after the decree?

So is he not the legal father? At some point when you were going to court was he deemed not to be the father? Generally before a court orders custody and child support they determine who the parent(s) are. Were you two married when the child was born so he was presumed to be the father then denied it but it was never dealt with? I'm confused where this new (to me) information is coming from.

But back to the papers that you already filed. You called the court and they told you that they were in the judges office but he/she had not signed off on anything or ordered a hearing or anything. Is that right? In that case I imagine the judge is still looking into things before deciding how/when to go forward with anything. Which means that chances are you will get something in the mail.

As for the attorney charging you $600... check with law schools in the area sometimes they will have students look over things for practice and you won't be charged. As for the pro Bono stuff lots of lawyers do free services but they can't afford to do it all the time. My cousin just graduated from NYU and took the bar. She is going to be paying her student loans for a very long time in large amounts a month. So, when looking for reduced rates you might want to contact someone who has been in practice a long time or like already said a law school.

But I have to ask, if you are trying to prosecute him for kidnapping the prosecutors office would handle that, so have you contacted him/her office? The reason I ask is because more than once you refer to him as a kidnapper and in the last post said he is even more than a kidnapper (which isn't something you can charge someone with but I imagine that was just your frustration).

Okay, let me try to straighten all this out. He raped me, 2 weeks later when going in for my birth control shot, I was found to be pregnant. I claimed him to be the unwanted father of the baby I was carrying, and he denied it and denied it and then after the child was born, Human Services filed suit against him to determine paternity. He could have said, "Yeah, I'm the father, it's all good" but he denied it. So when a child is born, you fill out the docs for a birth certificate at the hospital. I filled it all out, and that's when Human Services pursued proceedings on him, and he denied being the father. So they processed the birth certificate with my name on it.. no father. Then we went through all the paternity testing, and after the tests came back he was ordered to pay support because he was in fact the father... but he never signed the birth certificate. His name was added, due to 99.999% paternity test results, not due to him signing an acknowledgement of paternity... which the statute states above, is equivalent to an adjudication of non paternity.

That's why when we signed the settlement and agreement, it stated "Release and Discharge" as to full release of any actions, demands or claims addressed, which were custody, support, visitation, insurance::see below.

1. That if a final Paternity Decree is granted and awarded to
Either of the parties incorporating the provisions contained
Herein, the terms of this Stipulation and Agreement shall
Constitute a full, complete and final settlement between the
2
Parties with regard to certain rights and duties arising from their
Relationship, specifically with regard to their respective rights
To custody of the minor Child, child support payments in connection
Therewith, insurance coverage for said Child, visitation rights to
Said Child, and all other matters at issue in the Cross-Claim.

Our decree is entitled DECREE OF PATERNITY AND SUPPORT BY STIPULATION. Now do you all see why I'm not crazy at all in saying he's got no right to ever modify custody... NONE. The Decree's final paragraph states : 16. That any and all terms contained in the parties'
Stipulation and Agreement are made a part hereof and, in the event
Of dispute regarding the rights and obligations of the parties, said terms shall control.

He's got obligations of child support, insurance coverage, and that's about it. I've got all the rights... and I'm not ordered in any specific terms to grant him visitation if I don't want to, he's so done. I'm going to try and get an emergency writ of assistance written up... been looking for forms online all over the place, and I'm at a loss. Cause I will get a hotel up there on Tuesday night, and get my child returned Wednesday morning, cause that man needs to learn that a mother never stops just because she's poor... cause a mother's love drives her to endure sleepless nights, road blocks, detours and of all, false accusations and distress by a kidnapper to prevent her from thinking she's right.

Again, your understanding of the law is lacking. If a court ordered DNA test proved him the father AND a court ordered him to pay support then he is the legal father.

You say he raped you, was he ever charged, convicted?

But since he is the legal father, he would always have the right to go back to court and try to claim his rights as the father. I can't imagine a court granting any in those circumstances (especially now), but that doesn't mean he couldn't try. But taking the child without getting a court to say he could IS kidnapping. And, at some point I think you need to investigate prosecuting him for it.

All right that clears things up slightly. I say slightly because if he raped you you should have pressed charges right away! I am not saying that you weren't raped but by taking care of that right away it would have saved you a whole world of stress now. Next, as scott pointed out the court added him to the birth certificate making him the legal father, so yes, he is able to go back to court to ask for a modification. That is the part that it doesn't seem he did.

When you went to court in 2006 what did the judge say? I know you didn't hear him order anything. However, I have never ever known of a judge to hold court and not say a single word and just walk out. There had to have been something said. Even it if didn't seem important at the time. Other wise there is no reason that you couldn't have left with your son then. So think hard and go back to look at paperwork from back then just to double check that you are remembering right.

I still think you should call the prosecutors office on Monday though because you don't have to pay a separate attorney if they will take the case.

If I were the judge, I would appoint a guardian ad litem for the child and I would evaluate all parental abilities... Having sole custody and not exercise rights for eight years sounds strange.
What about BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD?

Scott, the case is under civil domestic relations, not married, or consenting or having any past live in setting together... The statute is only interpreted just how it is written. "If you deny paternity and there is a birth certificate without the father's name filed with vital statistics (birth certificate with no father)"(valid denial), and then found to be father due to forced dna tests by State Agency Proceedings, (then the state puts your name as father) valid acknowledgment of paternity, = an adjudication of the non paternity of the presumed father and discharges the presumed father from all rights and duties of a parent.

(b) Except as otherwise provided in W.S. 14-2-607 and 14-2-608, a valid denial of paternity by a presumed father filed with the state office of vital records in conjunction with a valid acknowledgment of paternity is equivalent to an adjudication of the non paternity of the presumed father and discharges the presumed father from all rights and duties of a parent.

The statutes that are the exceptions have time limits for the father to start proceedings for rescission of denial.. and they are well long gone... to wit, he's got no rights or duties.

the only statues of which any party can enforce or modify are:
20-2-311. Adjustment of child support orders.
20-2-201. Disposition and maintenance of children in decree or order; access to records.

(a) In granting a divorce, separation or annulment of a marriage or upon the establishment of paternity pursuant to W.S. 14-2-401 through 14-2-907, the court may make by decree or order any disposition of the children that appears most expedient and in the best interests of the children. In determining the best interests of the child, the court shall consider, but is not limited to, the following factors:
(which here is obviously upon the establishment of paternity pursuant to those statues)

20-2-202. Visitation.

(a) The court may order visitation it deems in the best interests of each child and the court shall:

(I) Order visitation in enough detail to promote understanding and compliance;

(ii) Provide for the allocation of the costs of transporting each child for purposes of visitation;

(iii) Require either parent who plans to change their home city or state of residence, to give written notice thirty (30) days prior to the move, both to the other parent and to the clerk of district court stating the date and destination of the move. In the event a confidentiality order has been entered pursuant to W.S. 35-21-112 or any other court order allowing a party to maintain confidentiality of addresses or other information identifying the residence of the victim of domestic abuse, the address, city or state of residence or other information identifying the residence of the victim of domestic abuse shall remain confidential.


(c) A court having jurisdiction may modify an order concerning the care, custody and visitation of the children if there is a showing by either parent of a material change in circumstances since the entry of the order in question and that the modification would be in the best interests of the children pursuant to W.S. 20-2-201(a)upon the Establishment of Paternity lol... he can only petition the court for modification upon the establishment of paternity. Oh man oh man, follow the dots (or statutes... ) they all lead back to, he's got no leg to stand on. :D 14-2-401 through 14-2-907 are adjudicated steps to determine parentage. Hee hee. Me loves it!

GV70,I never even knew what a writ of assistance was until December 2013, when a lieutenant that saw the police narrative proving the man used them and took the kid the very same day they told him his papers were not legal, and needed a judges signature. Of course I go down to the station to file a report and they are like "Yeah but his documents you're showing us, show he has custody due to the modification!" and I'm going "No.....look at his claims in the fake order....his admitting having physical custody of the child since the day you guys told him no!" So yeah, if I'm to be evaluated, maybe all the law enforcement peeps should too, cause they don't know whether to charge him with felony child abduction, or custodial interference interstate (felony)... or if they even can cause his papers say he's got sole custody. So yeah, it's not like I've not tried... I just didn't know how to considering all these illegal "legal looking" court documents are drowning me stating he's modified the decree I full well knew deep down that he had no right to... but then if he had no right to, how did he get them in the file... and who would allow fake orders in a file? Argh... obviously you've no idea... and yeah, until I knew I could do it, without getting hopes up for my kid and myself, just to let them down or cause his assumed father to take flight before I could get him back, or put my child in a position to endure his father's relentless verbal and mental abuse... all the while, he's telling me I'm going down as a dead beat parent for not paying support... and how the courts would just love for me to go up and demand visitation owing so much in back support... like constant intimidation by way of threats verbally calling me things I'm not and making it a question in my mind whether to try and call to see my son... knowing he's just going to rant and belittle me in any way he can just to say "No" for no reason, because he's trying to alienate my son and I... you've no idea what lengths I've gone through or endured in even thinking of "trying to get my kid back"... I've even yelled at the court clerks, after begging them to review the file and remove the illegal order... so I could get my child back... and when I finally told the kidnapper, he was a kidnapper by clear and convincing evidence, what did he do? Oh yeah, called DCFS and told them he thinks I'm doing drugs and involved in a DV case. So yeah, they are in my life once again... and he thinks that's going to stop me like it did last time, and he's dead wrong, cause I welcome DCFS to investigate me, so long as they are in my life when my child is returned, butt head will realize he's got no chance in heck to attempt to take any action against me, cause he'll be in prison if I have any say about it. :D

Oh Stina, sorry, trying to research and losing track of who's asked what. So okay, I showed up in court and the judged said hello the "counsel for petitioner" who initiated the ex parte emergency custody order pro-se... suddenly has an attorney I never knew of, and he asks me "How are you today Ms. "". and I answer, fine thanks. He looked at the counsel for petitioner and asks him what we are there for, and he rambles off something about the temporary order and how his client is clearly the fit parent of the hearing...and the judge looks at me, and asks if I have anything to say, and I blurted off, "I'm asking for a motion to dismiss on the grounds of improper venue pursuant to such and such statute (I had them written down so I wouldn't fub up), and ask the court to order the petitioner to return the child to his sole legal and physical custodial Mother immediately". Then the lawyer starts having a fit saying, "Your honor! Just because she's pro-se, there are civil rules of procedure that have to be followed, and I've received no such motion and am not aware of any filed with the courts." and I interrupted stating, "that's because your client refused all mail sent to him by me." And then the judge asks counsel, "You are representing your client are you not counsel?" "Yes your honor I am representing the father in the matter... " and the judge interrupted him, "Then how come," he holds up my motion to dismiss.."Her motion is in my file and now in yours? Have you even looked at this case file?" he said with a smirk on his face.....and the counsel stumbled for words, while never really finishing one...and the judge goes, "Fortunately, she didn't file an order to go with it." and I about crapped myself, cause I knew I had......so here's where it's tricky. I attached the original decree to the motion to dismiss....(I didn't put "exhibit" on it) and had the judge granted my motion...(not sure he could have but I'll look that up later) but had he, it would have dismissed the entire civil case and render my decree useless and without force. So I'm glad someone lost that order..cause man alive....I was just trying to attach it as evidence as to the petitioners lies in his petition, stating no one had custody or he was not a party to any other litigation of the child pertaining custody of the minor child........so yeah....that happened. And counsel composed himself stating, while standing tall and trying to appear as if he had power, but yet never even looked over the case..ha ha and said, "Your honor, respondent clearly knows we are not here to discuss the temporary order for custody, but to seek permanent custody of the minor child on behalf of the petitioner." and I went WHAT! Like hello...I had never received a thing about custody, and I said, "I object your honor, this is illegal and they can't do that." and the judge is giggling, as he watches the petitioner and his counsel acting like they've got control now. counsel then state, "Your honor, there has been a substantial material change in circumstances regarding the defendant, upon which is clearly been submitted to the court and why the petitioner has been caring for his son for the last 6 months, providing adequate housing, education, medical and the adjustment has gone well." and the petitioner speaks up, "I purchased a large home where my son can safely get to and from school which is 200 feet from the home, and." the judge stopped him, stating, "It's nice to hear of all your purchases mr "", but a home doesn't make a person a good parent by any means"... and he shut up, And we all sat there, wondering what was next. The judge was silent. He asked me how I was doing with my case with DCFS in Utah and I told him the kids were already living with me, and now they want their brother home, where he belongs. And he said, "So they are on the road to reunification?" and I said, "Yes your honor," and he said, "Good to hear, keep up the good work." and he got silent again, looked at the counsel, who was expecting the judge to crack his gavel and issue his client custody... and he didn't and he spoke again, "Your honor, in lieu of all the evidence and being the defendant is a meth addict, and the father in this case is a retired teacher established in the community and stable, we ask that you grant relief sought by petitioner." and the judge just looked at him again. I mean, seriously there was no conclusion, and I spoke up and said,"Your honor he's kept me from my child ever since he took him illegally, and refused even phone conversations with him and he's my child and his birthday is 2 days away, and he needs to be home with his brothers." and of course at this point I was crying.

Counsel chimed in, "Your honor, its clearly apparent that the defendant is mentally unstable and is not the fit and proper parent in these proceedings, and with that and the children being in DCFS custody and her meth addiction," and I spoke up in anger, "I was never once on meth, and you best quit saying that if you can't show proof or evidence to back it up.!" and of course the father is giggling, because I am no longer composed, instead I'm pissed and in tears and tired of the crap... and the judge is once again begged by counsel to see the light of his client deserving custody, and the judge throws his hands in the air and says, "Yeah, uh uh, while we're at it, why don't we just order the whole decree to be reversed counsel," and shook his head in complete frustration over the idiocy of counsel. And I said, "you can't do that, this is completely illegal and I'm not signing anything to agree to this crap.......I will not cause he knows he's got no legal rights, and he's a liar and he's a child abuser, he got charged for abusing my autistic son, and our son has disabilities too......and there's no way he should ever be around a kid like that."
And the father, who was walking around tickled pink thinking he just got a judgement in his favor, was questioned by the judge about the charge of child abuse charge, and of course, he made it seem like he barely slapped the child for spitting in his face, (when he was actually kicking the child in the ribs repeatedly after trapping him under the kitchen table)... and the judge said, smugly, "Oh yeah, oh I understand," while taking notes... and I started to walk out the courtroom saying to the father, "You better not hurt my child.....cause I know this is illegal and I'm not signing anything saying I agree to this crap....." and the judge said, "Ms. "", get better, and get some help," and he looked to the father, and said, "You better watch your step."

Okay, that does help to know what happened greatly. Now, if I am remembering right that was in Wyoming. Correct me if I am wrong. So that brings me back to another question that was asked but I don't remember you ever answering... When you moved did you ever petition for a change in jurisdiction? If not Wyoming kept jurisdiction so it didn't really matter that the six month requirement jurisdiction didn't matter because they already had jurisdiction.

Next, while I know it sounds to you like the judge didn't say anything. He did. He warned the father to watch his step but left the child in his care. He also advised you to "get better and get help" meaning he wasn't returning the child to you under the circumstances presently before him.

As for the police, they are the police, not attorneys. It is the attorney's job to make sure legal documents are legal not the police. I know you have been approaching this with civil court but like I said before. If you really believe that non of his motions or anything were done legally, call the prosecutors office tomorrow. The prosecutors office may or may not take the case. But at least contact them to show that you really are doing everything in your power and using every resource that might help. I'm really not trying to harp on the fact that it has been this long but that really doesn't work in your favor so you have more to prove by it taking so long to decide to act further. Not just because you got angry at the father but because you really do want your child and believe he is better off with you.

Hopefully you hear back (by phone or letter in the mail) about your latest motion to know how and when to proceed. But you have to get out of your head that you are the one that signs off on things. More than once you have said "if I have any say in it" or even telling the judge himself "you can't do that, this is completely illegal and I'm not signing anything to agree to this crap". It wasn't your place to sign off on anything it was the judges. Generally, judges don't look kindly on people coming in telling them that they have the judges job and the judge doesn't know what he is doing. Just a word of advice when you go back to court.

His name was added, due to 99.999% paternity test results, not due to him signing an acknowledgement of paternity... which the statute states above, is equivalent to an adjudication of non paternity. .
Sorry but you read statutes as Satan reads the Bible. There are several ways a legal paternity of a particular child to be established:
1. Presumption
2 Paternity acknowledgment
3 Court proceeding and adjudication / it is your case/
See WY statutes:
14-2-501. Establishment of parent-child relationship.
(b)The father-child relationship is established between a man and a child by
(iii)An adjudication of the man's paternity;
14-2-402. Definitions.
(a)As used in this act:
(ii)"Adjudicated father" means a man who has been adjudicated by a court of competent jurisdiction to be the father of a child;


1. That if a final Paternity Decree is granted and awarded to
Either of the parties incorporating the provisions contained
Herein, the terms of this Stipulation and Agreement shall
Constitute a full, complete and final settlement between the
Parties with regard to certain rights and duties arising from their
Relationship, specifically with regard to their respective rights
To custody of the minor Child, child support payments in connection
Therewith, insurance coverage for said Child, visitation rights to
Said Child, and all other matters at issue in the Cross-Claim.
20-5-206. Effect of child custody determination.
A child custody determination made by a court of this state that had jurisdiction under this act shall bind all persons who have been served in accordance with the laws of this state or notified in accordance with W.S. 20-5-208 or who have submitted to the jurisdiction of the court and who have been given an opportunity to be heard. As to those persons, the determination shall be conclusive as to all decided issues of law and fact except to the extent the determination is modified.

Now do you all see why I'm not crazy at all in saying he's got no right to ever modify custody... NONE

14-2-823. Binding effect of determination of parentage.
(a)Except as otherwise provided in subsection (b) of this section, a determination of parentage is binding on:
(I)All signatories to an acknowledgement or denial of paternity as provided in article 5 of this act; and
(ii)All parties to an adjudication by a court acting under circumstances that satisfy the jurisdictional requirements of W.S. 20-4-142.
The binding effect is about parentage but not about any future custody/visitation etc determinations

And finally... be ready to be asked, ' Why you have been missing for eight years?"

Wow GV70, you've got some issues as well it seems. First you said 7 years, now 8, and missing? Is not even close, I've always talked to my child so long as numb nuts let me, and I even gave him a cell phone so when his dad made it impossible he could call me and I'd get help his way... and when his father found it, he threw it away. So let's see, missing is no one knows where I am? Having no presence in my child's life? Wrong wrong wrong and wrong. And as per your lovely Statues, trying to ignore my entire VERY VERY TELLING statute about his rights and duties as a parent, is telling.
(c) A court having jurisdiction may modify an order concerning the care, custody and visitation of the children if there is a showing by either parent of a material change in circumstances since the entry of the order in question and that the modification would be in the best interests of the children pursuant to
W.S. 20-2-201(a).
(a) A court in this state which enters a custody order under W.S. 20-2-201 has continuing subject matter jurisdiction to enforce or modify the decree concerning the care, custody and visitation of the children as the circumstances of the parents and needs of the child require, subject to the provisions of the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act.

20-2-201. Disposition and maintenance of children in decree or order; access to records.

(a) In granting a divorce, separation or annulment of a marriage or upon the establishment of paternity pursuant to W.S. 14-2-401 through 14-2-907, the court may make by decree or order any disposition of the children that appears most expedient and in the best interests of the children. In determining the best interests of the child, the court shall consider, but is not limited to, the following factors:

So if I'm correct, then unless he's not established paternity, (because it reads, Upon the Establishment of Paternity)... then yeah he can modify it. Lol But being that he was the adjudicated father, and I'm not claiming anyone else can be, then he can't bring it to the court to modify it either way :D EVER! His time limits to rescind his denial of paternity is way over, (2 years). Why do you think he's secretly changed the child's name? Cause our decree speaks of what the child's name shall be caused to be... oh and yeah, baby, can you say F.B.I. hee hee

That each of the parties, and both of them, understand
Their rights to petition the Court to enforce and/or modify the
Terms of any Court Order or Decree pursuant to the provisions of
Wyoming Statutes 20-2-201 through -204 and -311(d) (and any
Amendments thereto), and that any such modification may not be
Effective prior to the date of filing an appropriate motion or
Petition for modification.

(b) The father-child relationship is established between a man and a child by:

(I) An unrebutted presumption of the man's paternity of the child under W.S. 14-2-504;
14-2-504. Presumption of paternity in context of marriage.(never married or lived together dear)

(iii) Identified as the father through genetic testing under W.S. 14-2-705;
(vii) "Determination of parentage" means the establishment of the parent-child relationship by the signing of a valid acknowledgment of paternity under article 5 of this act or by adjudication by the court;

(xxi) "This act" means W.S. 14-2-401 through 14-2-907.

You come here asking for help. Several people have tried to help by explaining to you that you are misreading the law. Instead, you argue with them. If you know so much why are you in this predicament in the first place?

I wish you well, but I have a hard time understanding your attitude here.

. Lol But being that he was the adjudicated father, and I'm not claiming anyone else can be, then he can't bring it to the court to modify it either way :D EVER!

As I said you read laws as Satan reads the Bible! It is only your desire but you are out of the truth!
Even third parties may bring action for custody.
He "missed" what?
I lost interest but would you like to cite statute, article, etc where it is said that ADJUDICATED FATHERS do not have rights for custody?

(b) The father-child relationship is established between a man and a child by:

(I) An unrebutted presumption of the man's paternity of the child under W.S. 14-2-504;
14-2-504.Presumption of paternity in context of marriage.(never married or lived together dear)

(iii) Identified as the father through genetic testing under W.S. 14-2-705;
(vii) "Determination of parentage" means the establishment of the parent-child relationship by the signing of a valid acknowledgment of paternity under article 5 of this act or by adjudication by the court;

(xxi) "This act" means W.S. 14-2-401 through 14-2-907.



It is about Presumption of paternity in context of marriage... and your case is not this one.The applicable article is:
14-2-501. Establishment of parent-child relationship.

(a) The mother-child relationship is established between a woman and a child by:

(I) The woman's having given birth to the child;

(ii) An adjudication of the woman's maternity; or

(iii) Adoption of the child by the woman.

(b) The father-child relationship is established between a man and a child by:

(I) An unrebutted presumption of the man's paternity of the child under W.S. 14-2-504;

(ii) An effective acknowledgment of paternity by the man under article 6 of this act, unless the acknowledgment has been rescinded or successfully challenged;

(iii) An adjudication of the man's paternity;


(iv) Adoption of the child by the man; or

(v) The man's having consented to assisted reproduction by his wife under article 8 of this act which resulted in the birth of the child.

Scott, the case is under civil domestic relations, not married, or consenting or having any past live in setting together... The statute is only interpreted just how it is written. "If you deny paternity and there is a birth certificate without the father's name filed with vital statistics (birth certificate with no father)"(valid denial), and then found to be father due to forced dna tests by State Agency Proceedings, (then the state puts your name as father) valid acknowledgment of paternity, = an adjudication of the non paternity of the presumed father and discharges the presumed father from all rights and duties of a parent.

(b) Except as otherwise provided in W.S. 14-2-607 and 14-2-608, a valid denial of paternity by a presumed father filed with the state office of vital records in conjunction with a valid acknowledgment of paternity is equivalent to an adjudication of the non paternity of the presumed father and discharges the presumed father from all rights and duties of a parent.
Again-what does marital presumption have commonly with paternity adjudication?
As I said there are several ways a paternity to be established:
1 Paternity presumption/ that's mean marital presumption/
2 Paternity acknowledgment
3 Court adjudication of paternity.

You messes paternity presumption and adjudication.

(b) Except as otherwise provided in W.S. 14-2-607 and 14-2-608, a valid denial of paternity by a presumed father filed with the state office of vital records in conjunction with a valid acknowledgment of paternity is equivalent to an adjudication of the non paternity of the presumed father and discharges the presumed father from all rights and duties of a parent.

Presumed father... (is the one I'm claiming to have caused the pregnancy)
Valid Denial... (by a presumed father... ^filed with the state office of vital records) initial birth certificate filed, no father's name, once asked by DFS to sign that he was the father, he refused stating he wasn't, went and got an attorney) they filed the birth certificate as accused father denies paternity... Valid acknowledgment of paternity, is after proven to be the father through court ordered genetic tests, and ordered by DFS to add his name as father, which is equivalent to an adjudication of the non paternity of the presumed father and discharges the presumed father from all rights and duties of a parent.

14-2-607. Proceeding for rescission.
14-2-608. Challenge after expiration of period for rescission.

He is discharged from all rights and duties of a parent.

Yes, he's the paternal party of the child, and he should have not denied it and tried to claim "sterile" or tried to threaten me if I tried to name him as the father... when trust me, if I had anyone else to accuse I surely wouldn't have chosen him... he's got no parental rights or duties, but he does have an obligation by law, to provide for a child, even if he didn't want it, and didn't want it to be his. :D Get me? I'm just going by exactly what the statute states.

Get me? I'm just going by exactly what the statute states.

But that is one of the problems with the law. For every statute, there may be one that contradicts it. Please the law is not black and white. There are nuances, practicalities, etc. That's what keeps lawyers in Mercedes. And your problem is that you are hanging your hat on one statute and ignoring others. You are not arguing in front of a judge here. You don't have to convince us that this guy deserves to be in jail and your child belongs back with you. You did that a while ago.

But you have a very limited understanding of the law and one that is very skewed. You are hanging your hat on statutes that don't apply or ones that you are misunderstanding. Again, if you are going to ignore the advice you are getting and argue with us, why bother continuing. Your fight is with the courts not us. We have told you how the courts will look at it.

Just signed the order to show cause!! I think I can now go and retrieve my child with police assistance!

Yay, Let us know how it works out.

Glad to hear you are making progress!

I put the order in on Tuesday last week, he signed on Thursday, and had I not called today to see what was what, I would haven't known until it was mailed to me. I'm so excited I could cry... now to figure out if I can give my friend permission (that lives up where he is) to get the order (certified copy) from the court and get police to help her go get my child tonight, because by the time I get there, courts will be closed. Kidnapper should be served today or tonight, so I'm not going to take any chances on him fleeing... again. I've got every police department on alert who called me crazy cause he had an "order" that I called fake, as well as DCFS... lmao claiming I'm mentally unstable by thinking my child was kidnapped by his "paternal" father. Lmao So excited... and yet on edge. I've had investigators working on this for 1.5 months now and they didn't do a think, so the least they can do is assist me in bringing my child back to Utah... and yeah, someone, I think it was you Stina, said to call the FBI and I already did that a while back... and they haven't done a thing either. Totally makes me want to scream.

Maybe Im lost because of all the writing going on but when was your hearing on the order to show cause ?

So help me guys. Help now needed. I've got the order of the motion filed with the affidavit, Order is signed. Motion says,

WHEREFORE, MOVANT respectfully requests the following:

1. That an Order to Show Cause be issued directing Defendant/Respondent to appear before the court and Show Cause why he or she should not be found in contempt of court for violation of the Order as alleged.
2. That the Court enforce the Order.
3. That (explain anything else you would like the Court to do)deem the order's filed April 13, 2007 to be unenforceable in this Court or any other State. Court. Assist in the immediate return of the child to the mother. .
4. For such other and further relief as the Court deems just and proper.


Does that mean I can go now and get my kid? Or do I need to make sure he's been served first and the service has been filed with the court?

So help me guys. Help now needed. I've got the order of the motion filed with the affidavit, Order is signed. Motion says,

WHEREFORE, MOVANT respectfully requests the following:

1. That an Order to Show Cause be issued directing Defendant/Respondent to appear before the court and Show Cause why he or she should not be found in contempt of court for violation of the Order as alleged.
2. That the Court enforce the Order.
3. That (explain anything else you would like the Court to do)deem the order's filed April 13, 2007 to be unenforceable in this Court or any other State. Court. Assist in the immediate return of the child to the mother. .
4. For such other and further relief as the Court deems just and proper.


Does that mean I can go now and get my kid? Or do I need to make sure he's been served first and the service has been filed with the court?



It means that there is going to be a hearing on the matter. And at that hearing decisions will be made. He will have to be served notice of the action.


If you didnt write this then who did regaurding 1-4 ?

The key here is 3. Does the order with a judge's signature say that the child should be immediately returned? I would check with the judge's office first thing in the AM to check what that means.

Before you go pick up the child clarify it with the court. It looks to me like the judge is just reiterating to you and to the father what the hearing is going to be about. It doesn't look like the judge signed anything saying go get the child... just that he knows what you are requesting and it will be addressed at the hearing. Like I said double check with the court tomorrow. Is that what you got in the mail today? If there is to be a hearing you will need to know when so you can show up.

I agree with cdad and stina. But the possibility exists that the judge did order the immediate return of the child pending the hearing. But you have to be absolutely sure of that.

The Order is Based on the Motion, and the motion says to Enforce the Order, appear and show why he shouldn't be in contempt, make all his fake orders unenforceable, and there is a page at the end, that is an Order to Dismiss, or Vacate the Order, but that's only if I decide he's taken the steps to comply with the order(decree) that the judge says he needs to show and appear... and Mind you... you have to attach the order you want enforced, and if the judge signs the order... then it's to be enforced. And he has to appear, and if the judge didn't see the Decree as Enforceable, he never would have signed the order on the motion. So the whole deal is to make him come into compliance, or dare come to court with his fake documents and tell the judge that they are real, when they aren't. The judge had to look over the file of the case, to ensure the order seeking to be enforced is the true order before signing a contempt order, ensuring that the order attached to the motion is the one that is to be enforced. If he thought I was just crazy, he would have not signed the Contempt order to show cause... he would have dismissed it. Let me paste the portion of the dismissal page that shows this.

And the Court, having reviewed the file and being otherwise fully advised; FINDS that the action for an Order to Show Cause should be dismissed.
THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED that the Order to Show Cause action be dismissed without prejudice and that the hearing, if any, be vacated. (That's if we both sign that he's in compliance... ) if he doesn't comply to the order to show cause, he still has to appear. :D

Here is where an attorney comes in handy. It is extremely hard for us to tell you what things mean when there are only bits and pieces of the entire document. Like if I wanted you to tell me the story of "A Tale of Two Cities" but only gave you fifteen pages from different parts of the book to read. I don't expect you to type in the entire document but for heaven's sake stop arguing that you are reading things right when you come and ask for help. I stand by what I said, based on what I have read of what you received, don't do anything until you clarify with the court tomorrow.

notice of entry: a notice with an affidavit of service stating that the attached copy of an entered order or judgment has been served by a party on another party

Depending on the relief sought, the judge’s decision may award a judgment (http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/housing/definitions.shtml#judgment) to the winning party. When the winning party enters the judgment (http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/housing/definitions.shtml#entryofjudgment) and serves (http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/housing/definitions.shtml#serviceofprocess) a copy of the judgment with notice of entry (http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/housing/definitions.shtml#noticeofentry) on the losing party, this start’s the loser’s time to appeal running. To learn more, refer toServing Notice of Entry (http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/housing/servingnoe.shtml).

But you don't have a judgment. You have an order to show cause. Which, as I said initially, Says show up at this place and time and convince why I shouldn't put you n jail.

Never seems to end does it?

This thing sucks. I mean, how long should I have to wait for all this, cause I he should he should have never been able to take my child in the first place, and he's a most terrible parent. And person, and he's got no right to take me to court for custody ever being those things were already solved in the initial decree. They are still serving him... as if that town is real busy.

Did you talk to the judge's office? Can you recover your child or do you have to wait for a hearing? Did the show cause order include a date or time frame?

And, I have to say it, you waited 8 years to do this when it should have been done as soon as he took the child.

I have to agree that this should have been taken care of eight years ago. It was the same process then as now. But now you have more explaining to do. That being said I am guessing you did talk to the judges office because you know he hasn't been served yet. Did they say anything about a hearing or going to get the child?

But had it been reported right away charges could have been brought against him before you even went to court six months later. Of course hind sight is 20/20 but just something to keep in mind for the future. This was supposed to be included in my last reply but guess I deleted it out or something before posting.

Oh trust me I know now. But like I said, I talked to DCFS(who were in my life) and told them what he did, just a few days after he did it, and they offered no help or anything... so yeah, being they are supposed to look out for the children's best interest, they sure did a crap of a job... and to not care about or tell me what to do... is even more trouble. Yes, I do have it all on record. They call these thing "minutes", their interpretation of all contact with anyone during the case. So let's see. I have proof he lied on the exparte request (legal docs), I have proof that he did not serve me, (order said he had to), I have proof the police told him no the same day and that they were requested to be "present" so he could get his kid from the bus stop, and I have proof that he had not called to get visitation (cause my hospital records are clear that I was not available to reach), I have proof that I demanded he return my child, in writing, cause when I answered all of his idiot claims in his "application for exparte" stated he immediately return the child, and of course the date on it, I have proof that there was never any motion submitted for a modification of custody, or affidavit, or hearing, or notice, all of his fake documents are proof he's a liar, and a kidnapper, and I have proof as to why I didn't think I could do anything, and that is, his orders were supposedly signed by the judge, so who was I to question them? And what more do I need? Oh and about reporting to the police thing... back then> is like this... the police were there when he took my child, so why would even think they would help?

I wish I could attach documents to this so I could show you what I mean.

Oh and Scott, I'm not sure what you mean by time frame. It has a date set for hearing, and my motion says to immediately return the child to Me the Mother.

A time frame is a set amount of time to comply. Then if not met, a hearing when the judge will make an order will take place. But, the hearing date is already set so make sure you are there so the judge can rule on the case. Did you ever ask the judge to clarify if you were being permitted to go get the child before the hearing? Your motion is attached so that everyone sees why the judge set a court date. A motion is a request not an order.

What stin said. ;)

How can I attach the darn document? I know I have the motion which says to enforce the attached order, and in the (other) area(where it asks if there is anything else I want the court to do), I entered the immediate return of child to mother and deem his order as unenforceable.. . So because they are all attached together... does that mean the Order he signed, means (do what the attached order says now and appear so I can throw your butt under the bus) lol in so many terms? That's why I'm asking if now that the Order to Show Cause is signed... does that mean I can take it to the police up there and get them to assist me in retrieving my child? Cause if so, I'm gassing up and going before he gets served and takes off.

NO, hold your horse, you still have to have a document from the judge for him to relinquish custody forthwith. The police cannot do anything with the motion you have. You need a signed court ORDER.

What you asked the court to do is different from what the court ordered. You can't expect the court to order everything you asked for. You need to get a copy of the court order and read what it says. Forget what motions you filed.

45654

I had to take a picture guys... don't know how else to do it. Lol

That's fine. The order ONLY orders him to appear on April 10 and show cause why he shouldn't be held in contempt. The check boxes simply tell him what motions you have filed.

So no, you cannot use this to retrieve your child. You will have to wait until April 10 and see if he shows up. I would ask the judge to amend the order to require that he bring the child to the hearing. But I don't know if the judge will do that.

As mentioned above (and I thought was explained before) your motion does not mean anything. I can come up with a motion that the last winner of the lottery owes me all of their money and send it off to the judge. A hearing could be scheduled for the last winner to show why they don't owe me everything under the sun and my motion will be attached to the paper telling us when the court date is. That too means nothing. When is the hearing scheduled for? What you need to do is SHOW UP AT THE HEARING. Anything before then you need to contact the judges office to ask for a clarification. So, I will ask again, did you do that?! If not no one on here is going to tell you to go get the kid. Again, only the ORDER is something that people have to abide by. MOTIONS are just a request.

You can also think of it as when you were a child yourself. You and your sibling were fighting over a purple stuffed elephant. You had to ask your parent to give you the elephant rather than your sibling. Not until your parent said you can have it, can you go into your siblings room to take the elephant. In your case you and the father are the siblings. The child is the purple stuffed elephant. The judge is the parent.

So, leave the car on E. The only thing ordered was to show up at the hearing. Like has been said over and over because of the very long time frame that you were inactive, this isn't an easy mess to clean up. Like instead of wiping up boiled over oatmeal off the stove right away waiting eight days for it to harden then you have to chisel it off.

Hopfully this helps at least a little.

Yes, but if the Judge is signing it, knowing that I'm asking for compliance and enforcement of the Decree attached, doesn't that mean he either comes into compliance or else? I mean why else would a judge sign an order like that? If my original Decree was of no value anymore, then why even order the show cause, being he could have just dismissed it.?

45655456564565745658

We have been trying to explain this to you from the beginning. There are 2 sides to any civil action a judge needs to hear both sides before he can rule. Hence the show cause order. The show cause order is basically saying I've seen the movant's side, now I want to hear your side before I make a ruling. I don't know that he will be able to satisfy a judge that his actions were valid. Based on what you have said, I don't think he can. But I don't know what evidence he will present. If you had an attorney he would probably file a motion for discovery to try and force him to present his case before the April 10th hearing so you can prepare a case to counter his.

The show cause order is just the next step in the process. It's a good step for you, but we don't know what he will do. He could file a bunch of motions delaying the meeting, he could file a counter motion, he could run. We don't know. That's why we've been urging you to get clarification from the court.

I've looked at the attached documents. You are asking the court to issue a show cause order why he should not be held in contempt. I'm not sure that a Show cause was necessary. You may have just asked him to hold him in contempt and issue a warrant for his arrest since he clearly violated the custody order. But not being there, I can't say for sure which was the right thing to do. But the bottom line is that this is the course that has been taken so you need to see it through. I know the next 2 months are going to hell on you. But there is now some light at the end of the tunnel. The only thing I would do is what I advised earlier to try and get the judge to require that the child be brought to the hearing.

Okay, how do I get him to do that? A letter? I mean, I'd rather him give me custody of the child until the hearing, considering I'm not the one in contempt here, and certainly have no reason to run considering I'm the one fighting like heck to get this done. How do I ask him to hold him in contempt and issue a warrant? What legal forms should I get and where do I find them? I called the court today and they are like "sorry we don't have writs" which we have here, and I'm like, OK, so if a kidnapper has a child, you have to give him notice of a hearing before you pick up the kidnapped kid? Lmao She didn't like that too much. But I'm sorry, court clerks are clearly supposed to advise you as to what documents they have on hand, or applications are available for emergency recovery of something that's yours. They clearly gave him docs for an emergency ex parte custody order... back when, which were full of lies. Perhaps, I should just do those, and go up tomorrow to get them signed. Cause yes, they child has lived in Wyoming for 6 months or more, the child is in danger of being taken out of this state without notice, the father has concealed the child in alias name, the child is not getting adequate medical and or dental/mental care, child is in fear for his life that his kidnapper refuses his requests to see his mother,. yeah? No? Lol

Why don't you just hire a lawyer... They have the experience... they know EXACTLY what to do... and they will get much better results than the Do-It-Yourself approach.

I do most things myself... this is one of those things I'd never consider doing myself. You have too much to lose. I'd want the best representation I could afford. If one side has a lawyer and the other doesn't...the deck is stacked in favor of those with the lawyer.

You already have a hearing date! That is great news! Your next step is to show up at the hearing. The judge already left the child in his care eight years ago. I know you felt that you were close and that because you made a motion the judge would give you everything you wanted. The reality of the case is, like Scott said, there are two sides of the story. That is why the judge ordered the hearing. April isn't that far away. You even just said that he got papers from the clerk. Up until now you have made it out that he just went to the computer typed a few things out and passes them off as legal. That right there is an example of why there are hearings.

Yeah, but just cause he got papers, didn't mean they were at all legal in all of his claims. Everyone of his statements were untrue, whereas mine wouldn't be, and obviously what I'm trying to point out is, if the man an change a kids name, make him fear to ask to see his own mother, alienate him from his brothers, viciously lie and make liable claims, and all the while, try to act like the first decree never existed, I mean, what else is he going to do? You do know he's collecting social security for the child (illegal), medicaid(he makes over 4000 a month) illegal, (took the kid across state lines) felony, (wrote up papers that don't say anything at all of what the judge even said in the court that day... not even a stitch... )head on platter illegal, and here's where the kicker comes in, and think about this long and hard...

If your son's mother called the state police to your house at 11:30 at night, claiming you had kidnapped her child, and you get them to believe that you had a legal order, and say she's nuts and a drug addict and all kinds of crap (which is also in his fake order) no judge would ever do that mind you....WOULD YOU THEN CALL HER THE NEXT DAY AND PLACE NICEY NICEY AND ARRANGE A VISITATION? ...............ONLY IF YOU WERE A KIDNAPPER WANTING HER TO CALM DOWN AND GET THE POLICE TO BACK OFF :D Funny thing of it all is, when he called the next day, I was at the police station filling out a kidnapping report, and he never once mentioned that the police had been to his door... IF THAT'S NOT TELLING, I'M NOT SURE WHAT IS :D

Oh and mind you, I never got a hearing date for the ex-parte order he put in. The first time I ever went to court was 5 months 29 days later... now if that isn't illegal I don't know what is. Yeah, I have recording after recording of him beating me down verbally and emotionally all because I wanted to arrange to see my kid and he would never let me talk to my kid until I finally put on my Facebook wall that he was holding my child hostage, and his sister was a "friend" of mine at that time, and she was watching very closely... and when I kept on with a 500 page book of facts about her brother who involved her in a kidnapping scheme, she called my son, only to find he wasn't answering his phone, then called her brother and told him what I was saying, and wouldn't you know... 5 minutes later, my son calls saying his dad keeps his phone in his room cause he "has a special way of charging it". No HE ERASED ALL MY CALLS, TEXTS, PICTURE MESSAGES AND ANY PROOF THAT I HAD DILIGENTLY TRIED TO KEEP IN TOUCH WITH MY CHILD... oh yeah baby, kidnapping 101

I''m seriously trying to get this stip and agreement up here, so you guys can see it, but it doesn't have an option to insert file... what do I do?

Again you are going over the same ground you have gone over before. We believe you. We believe he kidnapped your child. You have to stop getting emotional, you have to deal only in provable facts.

As for trying to get a warrant issued, I don't know how you would have done that. The time to do that was when you got out of the hospital and he refused to return the child. Its too late now. You asked the court to issue a show cause order. The court did. You can't go back now and say; I really wanted to ask for a warrant. You got what you asked for so now you prepare for the hearing. You start with the original decree. You show that he didn't have a valid order modifying that decree when he took the child. You show that you were never served with papers of a hearing to modify the decree. You show that whatever court papers he filed were full of false allegations.

You go into court prepared to show these things, but its not up to you to do so. Its up to him to show why he shouldn't be held in contempt. HE has to convince the court why he wasn't in contempt. The only way I think he can do that is by showing a valid court order awarding him custody.

The only thing I think you can do now is what I have said before. Ask the judge to order him to bring the child to the hearing. Otherwise you just need to prepare to counter anything he is going to offer the court.

I''m seriously trying to get this stip and agreement up here, so you guys can see it, but it doesn't have an option to insert file... what do I do?

Click to reply. Make sure you press to Go advanced. Then you will see options to Manage Attachments.

But you really don't need to show us anymore.

You did it right, but I had to remove it. The black out didn't work and I could read the names. I didn't read any further but immediately deleted the post. Again, you don't need to post the original decree. It doesn't help us help you any further.

I was able to read the decree and I have a couple of questions. In the 5 years between the issuance of the decree and when he took custody of the child, did he ask for visitation in accordance to the decree and did you grant such visitation? Also, was the name changed as required in the decree?

20-5-304. Temporary emergency jurisdiction.

(a) A court of this state has temporary emergency jurisdiction if the child is present in this state and the child has been abandoned or it is necessary in an emergency to protect the child because the child, the child's sibling or a parent of the child is subjected to or threatened with mistreatment or abuse.

(b) If there is no previous child custody determination that is entitled to be enforced under this act and a child custody proceeding has not been commenced in a court of a state having jurisdiction under a provision of law from that state that is in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303, a child custody determination made under this section remains in effect until an order is obtained from a court of a state having jurisdiction under a provision of law in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303. If a child custody proceeding has not been or is not commenced in a court of a state having jurisdiction under a provision of law from that state that is in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303, a child custody determination made under this section becomes a final determination, if it so provides and this state becomes the home state of the child.

(c) If there is a previous child custody determination that is entitled to be enforced under this act, or a child custody proceeding has been commenced in a court of a state having jurisdiction under a provision of law from that state that is in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303, any order issued by a court of this state under this section shall specify in the order a period that the court considers adequate to allow the person seeking an order to obtain an order from the state having jurisdiction under a provision of law from that state that is in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303. The order issued in this state remains in effect until an order is obtained from the other state within the period specified or the period expires. Wyoming Statutes (http://legisweb.state.wy.us/statutes/statutes.aspx?file=titles/Title20/T20CH5AR3.htm) citing reference

So what does 20-5-304 have to do with this situation? Can you prove the child is being subjected to or threatened with abuse? Plus according to you he is not in WY so it doesn't apply.

Sorry had to work for a minute, so I couldn't get back to you till now, but yeah, that's what his "attorney" came back at me with when I put in my motion to dismiss based on improper venue. Lol Those statutes don't apply at all. Our agreement and decree all say you can only bring a motion pursuant to "That each of the parties, and both of them, understand
their rights to petition the Court to enforce and/or modify the
terms of any Court Order or Decree pursuant to the provisions of
Wyoming Statute §§20-2-201 through -204 and -311(d) (and any
amendments thereto), and that any such modification may not be
effective prior to the date of filing an appropriate motion or
petition for modification."


His ATTORNEY WROTE THIS:

The Defendant's motion is mistaken and
Proper venue is in the above-entitled court pursuant to the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and
Enforcement Act, W.S. § 20-5-201 et seq. particularly W.S. § 20-5-302 and 20-5-303.

20-5-302. Exclusive, continuing jurisdiction.

(a) Except as provided in W.S. 20-5-304, a court of this state which has made a child custody determination consistent with W.S. 20-5-301 or 20-5-303 has exclusive, continuing jurisdiction over the determination until:

(I) A court of this state determines that the child, the child's parents and any person acting as a parent do not have a significant connection with this state and that substantial evidence is no longer available in this state concerning the child's care, protection, training and personal relationships; or

(ii) A court of this state or a court of another state determines that the child, the child's parents and any person acting as a parent do not presently reside in this state.

(b) A court of this state which has made a child custody determination and does not have exclusive, continuing jurisdiction under this section may modify that determination only if it has jurisdiction to make an initial determination under W.S. 20-5-301.

His father took him to Wyoming when he kidnapped him! I lived in Utah, for more than 4 years prior to this happening, with the child and had sole legal and physical custody. Point is, The determination was already made. I did not have a significant connection with that state nor did my child anymore... which applies to 20-5-302, so they didn't have jurisdiction. They have jurisdiction right now, cause my kid is being held in Wyoming... so yeah... big trouble he's in, and his attorney lmao

Was the father of the child living in Wy before all these court orders from his side were created ?

No use rehashing what happened in 2006. I'm not going to even get into the ways that might have been fought because its water under the bridge. The child now lives in WY and has reestablished residence there. The original decree was issued in WY so WY still has jurisdiction until they say they don't. So you have a court in WY that has ordered him to appear on 4/10 and show cause why he shouldn't be held in contempt of the original decree. As far as I can tell based solely on what you have told us, he doesn't have cause. The only way he could take the child, even for a visit, was with your permission and 24 hours notice. For him to refuse to return the child without a valid court order awarding him custody was also a violation of the original decree. I have no clue what, if anything, he will claim if he shows up in court. But those are the two key points. He has to show the judge justification (according to the terms of the decree) for taking the child and keeping him.

That is what you need to concentrate on now.

You didn't answer my questions in post 112.

Let me just address this:

I did not have a significant connection with that state nor did my child anymore... which applies to 20-5-302, so they didn't have jurisdiction.

That's not necessarily true. If he remained in WY the whole time, then as long as one parent remained in the jurisdiction of the original decree, that jurisdiction remains. So if you filed in UT, then his attorney may have been right. You should have gone to WY to enforce the decree in 2006.

As we have said before, the original order was in WY where you all lived. The jurisdiction does not change just because you and the child moved. The father stayed in WY. WY kept it's jurisdiction. The fight has had to have taken place in WY the entire time. Now, again like I said yesterday, you have a hearing set in less than two months... just show up. Be ready to counter what he says but make sure you understand that the jurisdiction did not change so you can't argue that. His lawyer isn't in trouble for sending you something telling you WY has jurisdiction. It is true. You would have had to go to court a very long time ago to petition for a change in jurisdiction while you still had the child. That is not the case.

So, one more time, go to the hearing in April. That is your next step. Don't argue with the judge. Keep your head attached and emotions in check while there. If you let your emotions get the best of you you'll have a hard time thinking straight enough to counter any of his claims.

I agree that based only on what you have said, unless he can show proof that he did actually file the papers before picking up the child, he has little to stand on. So make your hotel reservations since you know when you'll be there now!

Good luck in April!

Oh my God you guys!! I'm freaking out right now!! My son's school has been corresponding with me on this issue, and they took my son aside yesterday 2/13 and asked him if his dad took him from his mommy, and my son started FREAKING OUT, CRYING, THREW THE TABLE OVER and beating his head in!! Well this afternoon, I'm on Skype with my kid, and his dad comes in and says they are LEAVING THE STATE OF WYOMING tomorrow after school, and they have as much money as they'll ever need and they'll have a lot of fun, and they can do what they want!. He even mentioned the ordeal at school in the recording... I've sent the recording to the Principal and I'm on my way to Wyoming now to get an Emergency Ex Parte Custody Order, and I'm going to take my other papers already signed by the judge, to the police with all of my evidence, and Praying for a Miracle... Trying not to break down and cry.

This is what I was afraid of. I'm assuming he has already been served. Go to the court and explain to the court, that you have proof that the father is going to ignore the show cause order and flee. As for an an ex parte to take temporary custody until the hearing.

Did you have permission to talk to your son or is this something that you were doing covertly? You might not have any evidence at all other then your word.

From previous posts, I don't think it was being done covertly.

OMG... I NEED TO BE A DETECTIVE!! You all ready for this? Felony kidnapping, conspiracy to kidnap, interstate custodial interference and who knows what other federal charges are coming his way. :D Twas funny, I finally had an appointment with the Detective today. I go in with arms full of documents, and he had this pile of like 50 papers. I'm like, "What's that?" he said, "That's the file they sent me." I said, "Who sent you?" He said, "Wyoming Court." I took a good look at all the documents and went HOLY SHIAT... THEY WERE ASKING FOR DOCUMENTS INVOLVING A "POSSIBLE KIDNAPPING CASE" AND THEY SENT ALL OF HIS FRAUDULENT DOCUMENTS TO THE POLICE!! Not one of the "legal documents were there." bwahahahahahahahaha Even still, the Detective is questioning me, and boom, after constantly shutting me down time and time again... I told him, "How do you even think he knew I was in the hospital that day? That was a Tuesday. I never would have let him have visitation on a Tuesday." and right when he tried to shut me up again, I said, "Yeah, that lady there, that called the cops on me, with all those lies, she called the father telling him to go get the kid, and shes in NV and he's in WY. Now if that aint kidnapping I don't know what is." He said, "How do you know that?" I said, "I have it recorded...him saying, 'she set you up man, she called me i called my connections she called hers.....omg your own aunt set you up!' "... He got silent. Finally, he says, "you bring that in, and we'll have a motive...and get this case rolling." and I said, "Uh, hello, I've already won! The courts only supplied you with the criminal connected documents lmfao," woot woot! And yes, I filed this morning with Child support services, to get my $44,000 in arrears paid asap... so that's done, and tomorrow... we all can celebrate! Like I said, HE CAN NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER GET CUSTODY. :D Unless he kidnaps him. Tee hee. :D

Were you able to get your child? Did you talk to the police in Utah or WY? Cops hate domestic cases. Parental kidnapping is not an easy case. Which is probably why the detective was giving you a hard time. But this doesn't answer the issue you had last time. That of him running with your son.

I was wondering over the weekend how things with your son went as well. Last we heard you were on your way to pick him up. Did that happen?

Well I was not here, cause when he told my son he was taking off, I followed. You guys have to understand one thing here, the cops up in Wyoming are all buddy buddy with him. He knew he was getting served and they just told him to take off out of town for a few days and they would return it as "unservable." If you think I'm even exaggerating, check this out. Lol I was in touch with the school remember? And they told me they would need to "see something" from me, to verify that Rielly was in deed my kid, but they also didn't tell Paul cause I told them... his name isn't Edward, his name, by law is Don... His dad changed it. So they held off, and on Thursday I guess they took Rielly aside and asked him if his dad took him from his mommy... and he just lost it, started screaming, growling, crying throwing stuff, hitting himself threw over a table and what have you... and his dad is running scared, cause he's getting caught. His buddy cops are buying him some time... and listen to this crap.

Friday I went up for the emergency order... but went to the school first... and the principle looked like a homer simpson in pajamas... so gross. And he takees me in the office, and his energy was like, he was scared of me, and he told the secretary to call the "school officer". And we're talking, and I asked him if he got the recording of Paul taking off with Rielly... and he was just starting to listen to it, and he heard it all, saying f this f that, we've got all the money we'll ever need, we won't want for anything, and we'll do whatever the f we want to do... and the principle says, "Is he saying the F word?" I'm like, yeah, plenty of times. Then the officer came to the door, and I rose and introduced myself with a handshake and he was already judging me... when in fact, I'm there looking for protection of a child who's identity has been changed without a court order.

Cop sits down... "So why are we even here?" he says snottily. "This is a civil case, and you have to do deal with all that in court, not here, we can't change any of that, so I don't even know what you're doing here." And I looked at the Principle and said, "See what I said in the email, is true. Paul's a friend of his and he is already copping an attitude with me." and the cops says, "yeah, I have known paul for what 30 years or so...and he's an established man in this town and .........." I interrupted, saying, 'I'm not here to talk aobut paul, remember this isn't a custody hearing, and if you think paul is all that good, then how about you get your kid kidnapped from you and someone changes her name and see if you call that person a good person." He got all haughty, and says,"You know, where were you when Paul had Rielly in Clark elementary, and was raising him... like where have you been for the last 7 years anyway.oh yeah that's right, you were a recovering meth addict... going through rehab. Right?" he said snidely, and I said, "You better watch how you tak to me sir, cause if you can't back up wihat you say, you shouldn't say it. See that's the word Paul uses.

Even in the Fake court documents, he made, up." and he said, "Well I thinkn it's time for you to go, cause like I said, this is not the court and this needs to be settled in court." and I said, "wow you listen like Paul too, cause I didn't bring up court, you brought up crap only paul would say about me, and to this day has no proof of." and I started to pull out some of my paperwork....and he said, "That's enough, I think we're done here." and I said, "No, you're done here, and I don't even know why you are here. First of all I didn't need a conspirator to kidnapping calling me names and defending the wicked when all I came here for was I was was asked to come here sir. So don't tell me when to go or what to do. They were diligent in ensuring I was who I said I was, and I could appreciate that, and so I came in here cause I was asked... you weren't asked to be here though. So maybe you should leave." He starts to grab my arm while I start to open my documents folder, and I said, Excuse me," He starts to grab my arm while I start to open my documents folder, and I said, Excuse me,"I told you, we're done here."I told you, we're done here."No actually I'm not, they are taking copies of the REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND MY ID, and they are verifying I am who I say I am... so you might want to watch your boundaries with me, cause I've taken down bigger men than you before." "No actually I'm not, they are taking copies of the REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND MY ID, and they are verifying I am who I say I am...so you might want to watch your boundaries with me, cause i've taken down bigger men than you before." I said, "Yeah well if you really cared about Rielly why didn't you come back here 5 or 6 years ago...cause you were busy with meth, " The secretary came in the room with the originals, and he quickly grabbed them from her and shoved them at me, and said, "Once again, watch your step sir, you see I already told teh staff here that you police were assisting the kidnapper, and you are just proving me right, and I have every right to be here, unless you can show me a document that says all of my parental rights are terminated, trust me I know my rights, and you better not step on them." "There we have you stuff now get out of here, I'm ordering you to leave." and he started at me, and I grabbed my "Wow, you want to say that in front of judge Sanderson?"Oh good, I got that all on record, so you have yourself a nice day sir."digital voice recorder from my bag, and said, "gold bars" and declared this morning that he's going to just go off the grid off the grid for a couple years, and just live in the mountains like he's always wanted to do, and get away from here, cause when the Marshal law hits, he's not going to be a in the middle of it. (lie) My son told me yesterday, 'Mom, dad's turnign everything into cash.. he's got lots of cash now."

So the police are of no help in this.


Now get this, the kidnapper, is liquidating everything as we speak. Just sold two lots of land, 40 grand a piece, cleared out his trust fund of 600,000 or more, and exchanging loads of cash for "Ry man, you listen to me and listen good. If you get near an airport or in one, you tell your dad you hve to go to the bathroom real quick and to get you a coke and run into the ladies room and stay there, and tell the ladies to call the police... cause you're dad won't go in a girls bathroom and mom's are momma bears when it comes down to tit. Protective suckers. And if your dad starts heading soemwhere you don't recognize... you stop to get a soda and tell someone in there to call the police... cause he's going to run...

It's down to the wire here... and considering I've done all the work here, and gotten all the proof and was right about everything and have recording out of the horses mouth... the po po best do their job quickly... cause they don't want to see me do it... so everyone say prayers... white walls of protection for my son... angels all around... cause he needs to believe he's going to get out of this... safe and sound... and quickly..

It just cracks my chickens, that a Violent Crimes detective does an investigation, requesting docs from the court in a criminal matter, and they give him all the "criminal documents" and he says, "Well this just shows he's got legal custody....still doesn't prove kidnapping." I giggled, and said, "Well you are doing a criminal investigation, not a legal one, and all my documents are legal......so obviously you got a lot of evidence they sent you in support of my claim........seems obvious enough to me, why can't you see it?" He says, "This just shows that he haad a judges order for temporary custody, that doesn't prove kidnapping, and" and I stopped him, and saidd, "Well wow, police narratives state the same day he took him, that they told him he didn't have the right too, he needed ajudges signature and here, on his "as you call them legal" documents, he admits to taking the kid that day. But yeah, I guess it's okay to do the opposite of what the police say.."

Crud, lmao, I was trying to cut and paste cause I wrote too many and it looks like I'm talking backwards, lol I swear... just read it backwards. Lol

I need to say this about this thread. This is not a blog site and we don't need all the information along with your personal opinion. This site is about trying to assist in answering peoples questions. This section is the Law section. So questions need to be law related and we can try to help. With that said please keep your posts brief in the future so others will read them rather then disregaurding then because of length. If you have a question ask it. At this point your only hurting yourself and the case you are trying to make by posting too much information.

When they ask for an explanation, I give it, and if you had read the entire thread, you would have seen that my "questions" needed some "clarification" as per what was assumed "not to make sense"... but thank you for clarifying... (not sure what you clarified).

Glad to see you came back! After visiting WY were you able to get in contact with the judge to bring your son back with you? Hope all is progressing well!

I've closed this thread, we aren't going to allow our site to be used like this. However, I'm not sure how real this is, because I've seen some of the court documents, and I don't recall the real names are what you are using. I will have to check them because they are on my other computer.

I have checked the documents and the names and locations bear no relation to what the other poster posted. so I have removed their posts.

To angel, if you have any followup and want me to reopen this thread let me know.