Hello:

Nationally, the GOP is reconsidering how it should approach people who were disaffected by them during the last election. Primarily, that would be women and people of color... Yet, on the STATE level, the GOP is disaffecting them even HARDER.

Irrespective of the long waiting times for people to vote, 30 state legislatures have enacted laws to make it even HARDER. Those same state legislatures are virtually, and unconstitutionally, ELIMINATING abortion in their state.

The war on women and people of color (I MEAN the disaffection of people), CONTINUES.

What's the end game? Will there be abortion? Will there be easy voting?

excon

How about taking a look at your own side... that if they go any further left... they are going to come back around as the far right.

Damn, if only we had taxpayer money that should be used for cancer research (http://www.openmarket.org/2013/02/15/shades-of-mccarthyism-federal-government-funds-smear-campaigns-on-tea-party-kochs/) to smear liberals we might get somewhere.

Long lines and long waits were the rare exception, and usually occurred in early voting sites, and not on election day. That is because the Dems pumped and promoted early voting .So on the 1st day of early voting there were long lines in urban areas. The President in his SOTU address higlighted Desiline Victor ,an 80+ woman who stood in line for six hours But Zero omitted that she voted on the first day of a seven day early voting period.Had she chose another day ,including election day ,she would not have waited that long. The main reason for this of course is that there are FEWER early voting locations open than on election day. Most communities uses school auditoriums ,libraries that are closed on election day as their polling place. Obviously you can't shut them down for a week or more during the early voting period. To call long lines at early voting locations an attempt at voter repression is a patently absurd notion.

Those same state legislatures are virtually, and unconstitutionally, ELIMINATING abortion in their state.
There is nothing unconstitutional in their actions .Roe v. Wade found that states have a “compelling” interest in protecting a fetus that “presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother's womb.”
The problem here is that the science has advanced and we now know that those babies have the capacity of meaningful life outside the womb(aka viability ) at a much earlier age than was imagined in 1973. The flaws of the Roe ruling are catching up with it.

Funny how if the woman kills the fetus... its "her right"

But if another person does something that results in killing that same fetus... its called murder.

The hypocrisy is eliminating poor women choices, as well to do and upper income woman have the resoures and options that are not affected by this debate at all. Again the issue is not abortion, but poverty. We all share blame in a system that allows poverty to grow when the ecomomy struggles because of poor circulation.

47 million people on food stamps, 20 million people out of work, or working part-time with no benefits, gas and food prices doubling every 3 years since Obama became President, and no jobs to speak of for college graduates. In 2010, 11, and 12, less than half of all college graduates found jobs, many just part-time.
Democrats gave 6 Trillion dollars, almost, to Big Banks CEO's, and have nothing to show for it. Now, Obama and the Dems want to give mortgages to those who can't afford them, just like what started all the recessions in the first place.
Over half the people in America now like being "taken care of" by the Big Federal Gov't. with unemployment money being given way past the original 22 weeks.
Sure, they will vote Democrat, cause they like it... not having to work and still draw money!
Unless the Republicans can come up with some way to create jobs, without Democrat interference, America is lost.

Hello fred:

George Bush broke economy. It was almost as bad as the great depression.. Some right wingers think we can just bounce back from that. Others know it takes some doing.

It HELPS if you have a congress willing to participate, but Obama has been met with pure obstructionism. Nonetheless, as the chart shows, he's done pretty good.

The hypocracy is eliminating poor women choices, as well to do and upper income woman have the resoures and options that are not affected by this debate at all. Again the issue is not abortion, but poverty. We all share blame in a system that allows poverty to grow when the ecomomy struggles because of poor circulation.

Blah, blah, blah, I'm sick of hearing you guys talk about choices, you only defend the choice you agree with.

Generally I defend the your right to your choices.

Perhaps you should teach that principle to others.

The right wing doesn't have to move at all, the federal government is simply declaring it so. The Department of Defense now classifies evangelical Christians and Catholics as "religious extremists" alongside al qaeda. But hey, aren't there more than quite a few liberal evangelicals and Catholics? Didn't know you were akin to al qaeda did you?

DoD labels Catholics and evangelical protestants 'extreme' | Washington Free Beacon (http://freebeacon.com/an-extreme-position-on-extremism/)

“Religious extremism is not limited to any single religion, ethnic group, or region of the world,” the slide explains, in language that closely resembles the text of a Wikipedia page on “extremism.”

You may as well read the whole thing before you take the authors opinion as fact.

http://www.adfmedia.org/files/ExtremismPresentation.pdf


Extremism is a complex phenomenon; it is defined as beliefs, attitudes, feelings, actions, or
Strategies of a character far removed from the “ordinary.” Because “ordinary” is subjective,
No religious group would label itself extreme or its doctrine “extremism.” However,
Religious extremism is not limited to any single religion, ethnic group, or region of the
World; every religion has some followers that believe that their beliefs, customs and
Traditions are the only “right way” and that all others are practicing their faith the “wrong
Way,” seeing and believing that their faith/religion superior to all others.
24

Pretty obvious the DOD presentation was specific enough as not to include all protestants, or catholics so why is the author getting his panties in a bunch? Why would you even say the DOD meant ALL you religious types?

Hello Steve:

Do you think extremists KNOW they're extremists?? I don't think they do. I think THEY think they're patriots. Let's take your side for a minute... In terms of guns, there's a viewpoint among some, that they NEED their guns to FORCE a solution on America that can't be won at the ballot box. That's EXACTLY what Sharron Angle meant, when she spoke of using her second Amendment remedies...

It's true, she lost.. But, she DID win the Republican nomination, so her views are held by LOTS of right wingers. It may EVEN be held by you. In any case, I promise you that NONE of those people think they're extremists, yet they're UNBELIEVABLY extreme. They're an RCH away from being Tim McVey type extremists..

excon

An Army spokesperson said the presentation “was produced by an individual without anyone in the chain of command's knowledge or permission.” The Army removed the offending slide after receiving complaints.

The person responsible for the presentation, the spokesperson said, “was not a subject matter expert, and produced the material after conducting Internet research.”


Huh?? Someone who is not an expert in the subject is preparing slide presentations for Army Reservists about potential domestic terrorists ?
Why don't I buy that line ?

I don't buy it either. Bad enough that embellishment changes the whole intent, and purpose but even worse when it's a call to action for the nut job crowd.

Tal don't get me wrong.. there is zero justification for the grouping... it was more a Sesame Street exercise in which of these groups do NOT belong... put together by someone that must have had an agenda ( the same types that smear conservatives as potential domestic terrorists ) . I just don't buy that someone responsible in the DOD chain of command had NO knowledge of the presentation ,or it's contents ,until it was called out.

Hello Steve:

Do you think extremists KNOW they're extremists??? I don't think they do. I think THEY think they're patriots. Let's take your side for a minute... In terms of guns, there's a viewpoint among some, that they NEED their guns to FORCE a solution on America that can't be won at the ballot box. That's EXACTLY what Sharron Angle meant, when she spoke of using her second Amendment remedies...

It's true, she lost.. But, she DID win the Republican nomination, so her views are held by LOTS of right wingers. It may EVEN be held by you. In any case, I promise you that NONE of those people think they're extremists, yet they're UNBELIEVABLY extreme. They're an RCH away from being Tim McVey type extremists..

excon

Yes, by all means we need liberal idiots to label us all. And I thought libs hated profiling. This is stupid and irresponsible, not to mention 'extremely' divisive.

Hello again, Steve:

Touched a nerve, huh? Does it make it better that I think I'm an extremist too? As quickly as you'd take up arms against tyranny, is as quickly as I would. We just don't agree on what's tyranny.

excon

Yes, by all means we need liberal idiots to label us all. And I thought libs hated profiling. This is stupid and irresponsible, not to mention 'extremely' divisive.

Some of you guy with guns are dangerous, and kill people. Need a link to Kaufman Co. TX?

Some of you guy with guns are dangerous, and kill people. Need a link to Kaufman Co., TX?

Just what do I have to do with what happened in Kaufman? You trying to link me with extremists like our own government keeps trying to do?

Stop being sensitive and defensive. Stop taking it personal and about YOU. I personally don't associate YOU with a right wing extremist group.

Stop being sensitive and defensive. Stop taking it personal and about YOU. I personally don't associate YOU with a right wing extremist group.

"You guys" is personal my friend.

Since you libs don't seem concerned about the media blackout of the year (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/butchers-philadelphia-743581.html), how about some relevant news in the “war on wimmen” mentioned in this thread? VA's Republican governor signed legislation with bipartisan support requiring abortion clinics be regulated more like hospitals and surgery centers.


Gov. Robert F. McDonnell (R) has approved health regulations that impose strict, hospital-style building codes on Virginia abortion clinics (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-politics/new-virginia-abortion-clinic-rules-approved-by-mcdonnell/2012/12/31/a58709e0-5398-11e2-8b9e-dd8773594efc_story.html)

McDonnell's decision to certify the regulations, made without public announcement Friday, was publicized by an abortion-rights group Monday. His approval was expected and is not the final word on the matter, but it triggers the next step in a review process expected to conclude in March with a final vote by the Virginia Board of Health.

After one the most contentious debates of the 2011 General Assembly session, legislators voted to regulate abortion clinics like outpatient surgical centers. It fell to the health board to implement the new rules, which call for costly physical renovations, such as widening hallways and doorways, that some clinic officials say could put them out of business.

Predictably NARAL is outraged.


“After two years of shocking backroom deals and bullying public health servants, Governor Bob McDonnell is clearly proving his disregard of Virginians' opinions about women's health care,” Tarina Keene, executive director of the group, said in the e-mail.


I'm just guessing here, but ensuring women don't become victims as in Delaware and PA, where the turning a blind eye to the neglect of women's health and safety was “by design”, by requiring clean, safe facilities is a war on women. Am I right?

Hello again, Steve:

Never heard of TRAP laws?? It's targeted regulation of abortion providers. Read about it here. (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/trap_laws.html) It's NOT about health and safety.. It's about ending abortion..

excon

Interesting twist . A liberal that doesn't want regulation.

interesting twist . a liberal that doesn't want regulation.

Mixed messages.

Ex, ever heard of MURDER and abuse of women and children? Talk about a trap, a death trap. Read about it here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/butchers-philadelphia-743581.html)

"You guys" is personal my friend.

No you, or you guy, is personal, the "s" makes guys collective, as in more that just YOU. OOOPs, typo, my bad.

I know you will be shocked but I think standards should be high for any clinic, but a reasonable time to get them up to standards is also expected as well as in the case of doctors having admitting privilege in case of emergencies which is crap by the way since its an emergency. Non resident doctors seldom get admitting privileges, though their patients are seldom turned away.

Its like the voter ID thing I agree with and you GUYS have confirmed yet again your implementation SUCKS, so I can only conclude the real goal is furthering an agenda that victimizes, destroys rights, and isn't purely on health, and safety.

Strange for guys who don't want change but rather change back instead. Just be honest. HMMM, maybe its not so strange for you guyS.

In VIrginia they have been talking about raising the standards for several years now... it wasn't something they came out with last week.

And besides.. the state has a right and a vested interest in controlling such thiings... as they do for restaurants... and hospitals.

See... I live in Virginia... I know for a fact its been discussed and fought for the last several years... because its been on the local news and papers for that long. They ALL knew it was coming and had years to prepare for it.

No you, or you guy, is personal, the "s" makes guys collective, as in more that just YOU. OOOPs, typo, my bad.

I know you will be shocked but I think standards should be high for any clinic, but a reasonable time to get them up to standards is also expected as well as in the case of doctors having admitting privilege in case of emergencies which is crap by the way since its an emergency. Non resident doctors seldom get admitting privileges, though their patients are seldom turned away.

Its like the voter ID thing I agree with and you GUYS have confirmed yet again your implementation SUCKS, so I can only conclude the real goal is furthering an agenda that victimizes, destroys rights, and isn't purely on health, and safety.

Strange for guys who don't want change but rather change back instead. Just be honest. HMMM, maybe its not so strange for you guyS.

Ah, so what exactly is an acceptable timetable to ensure women's health is protected in an abortion clinic?

I don't know as that's a local thing but a month or too to change a whole structure is unreasonable and impossible don't you think? I mean it may take 30 days to even take bids or get estimates to widen more than one door way. What if there are 6? MORE?

I think you are trying to justify catching people up in a new rule you just made up. Funny coming from someone that can do nothing about murdered kids at schools and neighborhoods except holler about YOUR rights. You defend some babies but not others.

Your moral outrage seems to be limited to the scope of your prejudice.

I don't know as that's a local thing but a month or too to change a whole structure is unreasonable and impossible don't you think? I mean it may take 30 days to even take bids or get estimates to widen more than one door way. What if there are 6? MORE?

I think you are trying to justify catching people up in a new rule you just made up. Funny coming from someone that can do nothing about murdered kids at schools and neighborhoods except holler about YOUR rights. You defend some babies but not others.

Your moral outrage seems to be limited to the scope of your prejudice.

THe fact is it wasn't a month or two (which is nothing but propaganda)... its been several YEARS they knew it was coming.

I don't know as that's a local thing but a month or too to change a whole structure is unreasonable and impossible don't you think? I mean it may take 30 days to even take bids or get estimates to widen more than one door way. What if there are 6? MORE?

I think you are trying to justify catching people up in a new rule you just made up. Funny coming from someone that can do nothing about murdered kids at schools and neighborhoods except holler about YOUR rights. You defend some babies but not others.

Your moral outrage seems to be limited to the scope of your prejudice.


You're projecting, tal. It isn't pretty.

Just calling it like I see it.

You're projecting, tal. It isn't pretty.

Not to mention how HIS side is trying to force the rest of us to pay for 14 year old ho's to get free abortion on denand every few months because condoms and birth control are too much of an effort... and anything else.. WITHOUT the parents right to know or decide.

Funny coming from someone that can do nothing about murdered kids at schools and neighborhoods except holler about YOUR rights.

As I recall we offered some 'common sense ' solutions to kids getting killed at school.

I haven't see any consistancy from the left calling for knife registration and liscensing... and mandatory background checks before someone is allowed to have a sharp object... since the stabbing spree by yet another mentally unballanced lefty.

Just calling it like I see it.

Need some new glasses?

In the next election will the IRS again target conservative groups for intrusive scrutiny?

IRS apologizes for targeting conservative groups (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/irs-apologizes-targeting-conservative-groups)


WASHINGTON (AP) — The Internal Revenue Service inappropriately flagged conservative political groups for additional reviews during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status, a top IRS official said Friday.

Organizations were singled out because they included the words "tea party" or "patriot" in their applications for tax-exempt status, said Lois Lerner, who heads the IRS division that oversees tax-exempt groups.

In some cases, groups were asked for their list of donors, which violates IRS policy in most cases, she said.

"That was wrong. That was absolutely incorrect, it was insensitive and it was inappropriate. That's not how we go about selecting cases for further review," Lerner said at a conference sponsored by the American Bar Association.

"The IRS would like to apologize for that," she added.

Lerner said the practice was initiated by low-level workers in Cincinnati and was not motivated by political bias. After her talk, she told The AP that no high level IRS officials knew about the practice.

Agency officials found out about the practice last year and moved to correct it, the IRS said in a statement. The statement did not specify when officials found out.

"Oops, we're sorry the most feared government agency in the country harassed you inappropriately during an election, we didn't know anything about it."

Want to bet not one person got fired over that? If anyone targeted the left wing groups you know they would have been calling for heads to roll.

Karen Tumulty with WaPo has already tweeted that there will be no disciplinary action. .

Wasn't that one of the articles of impeachment for Nixon ? I think it was.

Watergate Articles Of Impeachment (http://watergate.info/impeachment/articles-of-impeachment)

Read article 2... most of the stuff Nizxon was Impeached for Obama openly engages in doing...

Including using the IRS to get even with his opponents...

Also notice the Similarities in Filegate Hillary was the center of.

Article 2

Using the powers of the office of President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in disregard of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has repeatedly engaged in conduct violating the constitutional rights of citizens, impairing the due and proper administration of justice and the conduct of lawful inquiries, or contravening the laws governing agencies of the executive branch and the purposed of these agencies.

This conduct has included one or more of the following:
1.He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, endeavoured to obtain from the Internal Revenue Service, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, confidential information contained in income tax returns for purposed not authorized by law, and to cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, income tax audits or other income tax investigations to be intitiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner.

2.He misused the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, and other executive personnel, in violation or disregard of the constitutional rights of citizens, by directing or authorizing such agencies or personnel to conduct or continue electronic surveillance or other investigations for purposes unrelated to national security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful function of his office; he did direct, authorize, or permit the use of information obtained thereby for purposes unrelated to national security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful function of his office; and he did direct the concealment of certain records made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation of electronic surveillance.

3.He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, in violation or disregard of the constitutional rights of citizens, authorized and permitted to be maintained a secret investigative unit within the office of the President, financed in part with money derived from campaign contributions, which unlawfully utilized the resources of the Central Intelligence Agency, engaged in covert and unlawful activities, and attempted to prejudice the constitutional right of an accused to a fair trial.

4.He has failed to take care that the laws were faithfully executed by failing to act when he knew or had reason to know that his close subordinates endeavoured to impede and frustrate lawful inquiries by duly constituted executive, judicial and legislative entities concerning the unlawful entry into the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee, and the cover-up thereof, and concerning other unlawful activities including those relating to the confirmation of Richard Kleindienst as Attorney General of the United States, the electronic surveillance of private citizens, the break-in into the offices of Dr. Lewis Fielding, and the campaign financing practices of the Committee to Re-elect the President.

5.In disregard of the rule of law, he knowingly misused the executive power by interfering with agencies of the executive branch, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Criminal Division, and the Office of Watergate Special Prosecution Force, of the Department of Justice, and the Central Intelligence Agency, in violation of his duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.

In all of this, Richard M. Nixon has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore Richard M. Nixon, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.

Adopted 28-10 by the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives.

wasn't that one of the articles of impeachment for Nixon ? I think it was.

I think that's a yes.

Wake up from your right wing fantasy.

Obama isn't a god.. and he's not above the laws of man... and he certainly isn't better or superior to Nixon... in fact Nixon was a far better President and man and did far more and far better things than Obama ever has and ever will.

In fact Hitler had far more Positive accomplishments than Obama has.

After all nobody died in Watergate... in Benghazigate 4 people died... if people got impeached and went to jail over something as minor as Watrergate was... there should be mass exicutions for Benghazigate.

Wake up from your right wing fantasy.

Yeah, if the IRS was targeting leftist groups you'd have a much different tone. Doesn't matter how corrupt this administration is, you don't give a crap.

To be accurate I don't give crap about your conspiracy crap! From the link supplied,


In all, about 300 groups were singled out for additional review, Lerner said. Of those, about a quarter were singled out because they had "tea party" or "patriot" somewhere in their applications.

The IRS statement said that once applications were chosen for review, they all "received the same, even-handed treatment."

Lerner said 150 of the cases have been closed and no group had its tax-exempt status revoked, though some withdrew their applications.

"Mistakes were made initially, but they were in no way due to any political or partisan rationale," the IRS said in a statement. "We fixed the situation last year and have made significant progress in moving the centralized cases through our system."

At least spare us the crying until the investigations are done.

Your paranoia knows no bounds

Tal, take the blinders off. It's sad watching you defend such obvious corruption.

your paranoia knows no bounds

Its not paranoia when they (the IRS) came out and publicly admitted they were targeting Conservatives specifically for harassment themselves.

That makes it a proven fact it was happening..

So there are no democrats in the IRS?

To be accurate I don't give crap about your conspiracy crap! From the link supplied,



At least spare us the crying until the investigations are done.

Ummm... if they weren't intentionally targeting conservative groups ,there would've been no need for an apology when they got caught. This is at the very beginning of the probe now that the rock has been over-turned and the roaches are scattering . Time for demands for FOIA releases of internal documents and e-mails to find out the extent of this conspiracy to persecute Tea Party groups for their political views. I'm specifically interested in determining if this was just a group of over zealous functionaries ,or if they got direction further up the food chain. I suspect the later .

You should take a look at the scope of overreach in the info demanded of these groups. Issa highlighted 16 areas.

http://media.aclj.org/pdf/issa-jordan-letter-to-irs-regarding-intrusive-tea-party-questionnaires.pdf

According to your link, conservative groups were targeted one of four out of 300. Do you have facts that show the Tparty was exclusively picked out?


You should take a look at the scope of overreach in the info demanded of these groups. Issa highlighted 16 areas.

http://media.aclj.org/pdf/issa-jordan-letter-to-irs-regarding-intrusive-tea-party-questionnaires.pdf

Looks like standard house investigation instructions to me.

Uh, according to my first link the IRS ADMITTED to targeting "about 75 groups." Get your head out of the sand.

Where do you think they are going to look? They are going to target the rich guys because they are the tax evaders, so they happen to be republicans, go figure, some one has to be at the head of the list. You think it is a lottery?

Where do you think they are going to look? they are going to target the rich guys because they are the tax evaders, so they happen to be republicans, go figure, some one has to be at the head of the list. You think it is a lottery?

They weren't targeting George Soros and left wing organizations... they weren't targeting Hollywood... they weren't targeting Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry... or Barrak Obama...

LOTS of money in those places. Lots of socialists there so those should be at the TOP of the list.

Your link said 300, a fourth were Tparty, who were the rest? 150 have been investigated and approved for applied status. Who were they?

Why is it that only you guys were victims(?). Why is it you think only republicans can investigate everybody else, and NOT be investigated?

They weren't targeting George Soros and left wing organizations...they weren't targeting Hollywood....they weren't targeting Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry...or Barrak Obama....

LOTS of money in those places. Lots of socialists there so those should be at the TOP of the list.

Maybe you know of the other 3/4 of the groups being investigated are? Share the list please.

Maybe you know of the other 3/4 of the groups being investigated are? Share the list please.
Unless you can prove they weren't other Conservative groups... we can assume they were based on their targeting Criteria used to oppress the conservatives... this is far from over... Obama was behind this... and should suffer the same fate because of it that Richard Nixon did.

YOU can assume all you want. I rather have the facts before shooting off at the mouth.

Got any FACTS?

YOU can assume all you want. I rather have the facts before shooting off at the mouth.

Got any FACTS?

IRS admitted they were violating the constitutional rights of conservatives... they never admitted to violating the same rights of liberals.

The only assumptions being made here are by you.

Want facts... look at the admissions of th IRS... there are plenty of sources for that... none of which I can be accused of altering.

That's a fallacy on your part because no such admission of civil rights violations exists by the IRS on this matter.

Show me the links because the one provided has no such apology in it.

Tal, I don't know what planet you've been on but my first post on this said who and how many were inappropriately targeted and gave the apology. You want more facts? This wasn't just low level flunkies, IRS leadership knew about it and lied to Congress. This administration just keeps finding ways to manipulate the election, issue false talking points and lie about it. 

Senior IRS officials knew agents were targeting Tea Party groups: report  - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/irs-officials-knew-agents-targeting-tea-party-report-article-1.1341393)

When are you going to get your head out of the sand?

Wait until the next Republican President decides to to tell the IRS to target Lefty groups and organizations for audits...

I've sure they left will think that's just as fair and legitimate as what has been done here.

What goes around comes around

Hello smoothy and all you righty's:


I've sure they left will think that's just as fair and legitimate as what has been done here.I hate to bust your balloon, but as a left winger, I'm OUTRAGED at the IRS. If it can be proven that Obama was involved, he should be impeached. If it was low level employees, then that's just so.

The IG will investigate. I'll wait for his determination.

Excon

Hello smoothy and all you righty's:

I hate to bust your balloon, but as a left winger, I'm OUTRAGED at the IRS. If it can be proven that Obama was involved, he should be impeached. If it was low level employees, then that's just so.

The IG will investigate. I'll wait for his determination.

exconLets hope the heads roll over this... because this is one of the things Nixon WAS impeached for... lets see how many democrats jump under the bus to save Obama from this same fate.

Nobody has been fired yet... and its clear someone specifically gave the orders to do this. And its clearly Political in nature to punish anyone who has had any activity in speaking out angainst "The Kenyan Messiah"

If you work in banking and take it upon yourself to even LOOK at someone's bank account you are not actively working with... you would get fired. There is no way they can be poking around randomly and it NOT being a fireable offence.

Hello smoothy and all you righty's:

I hate to bust your balloon, but as a left winger, I'm OUTRAGED at the IRS. If it can be proven that Obama was involved, he should be impeached. If it was low level employees, then that's just so.

The IG will investigate. I'll wait for his determination.

excon

Obama is engaged in a war on IGs (http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/obamas_ongoing_war_on_inspecto.html) so I don't expect anything there, Congress needs to do this. IG after IG has found problems with this administration and time and again the White House has fired, abused, silenced and otherwise intimidated them for doing their job, not to mention the fact that he tends to leave those posts vacant (http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2012/05/16/obamas-missing-inspectors-generals.htm). I reported on another just last week (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/benghazi-white-wash-723413-31.html#post3459903) that claims the admin is trying to silence him, because heaven knows Obama's image can't be tarnished.

So are you really pi$$ed or just waiting for another IG to suffer abuse and hope it goes away while blaming those darn Republicans for another witch hunt?

So shoot the messenger, typical political game

Part 1 today of a rare event, I agree with Dennis Kucinich (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/dennis-kucinich-slams-irss-tea-party-political-targeting-how-can-it-not-be/)...


Former Democratic Congressman and presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich slammed the unethical targeting of conservative Tea Party groups by the IRS on Fox News Sunday’s panel, unequivocally suggesting that this was political targeting at its worst.

After dropping the disclaimer that he is a “liberal Democrat” and does not celebrate Tea Party politics, Kucinich firmly claimed politics has no place with the IRS:

“We can not have a condition in America where peoples politics are the basis for IRS attacks.”

Asked by Chris Wallace whether he buys the IRS claim that this was just an isolated bureaucratic offense by select IRS agents in Cincinnati, Kucinich said the buck stops at the top.

“The tone is set from the top,” Kucinich said. “We are in a hyper-partisan, intensely partisan condition in Washington. The polarization is damaging to our country.”

Wallace countered, asking if Kucinich thought the IRS’s missteps were straight up political targeting:

“How can it not be?” Kucinich concluded.

This admin is in deep doo doo and it's about time people are talking about the corrupt sham that is the Obama administration.

By the way, on that IG report you're waiting for? It's already been leaked to the media (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/05/a-full-accounting-at-the-irs-the-note/) and it's much worse than they let on last week. It's clear that the 'dishonest' apology as Issa called it, was an attempt to spin the report before it was released this week.

Not only did they target Tea Party groups, the IRS has been "tracking groups who’s goals included, quote “limiting government” and “educating on the Constitution and Bill of Rights” and that, “criticize how the country is being run” since 2010, and senior IRS officials have known for at least 2 years as I mentioned in another post.

Goodness knows we can't have anyone wanting limited government, teaching people about the constitution or *gasp* criticizing how the country is being run.

So while you guys were busy accusing conservatives of racism for criticizing Obama's policies (and if you can't see why we're critical yet after the last few weeks I can't help you) , the IRS - OUR GOVERNMENT - was harassing Americans exercising their rights.

This is CHILLING, an egregious betrayal of government trust.

P.S. It appears the IRS also may have targeted Jews and pro-Israel groups (http://www.jewishpress.com/news/irs-punished-conservative-non-profits-perhaps-also-pro-israel-groups/2013/05/11/).

I ask again who were the rest of the IRS's targets for this investigation of there tax status?

I ask again who were the rest of the IRS's targets for this investigation of there tax status?

Do you not think the IRS investigates others? The only thing that matters here is they specifically targeted and harassed conservatives, have been doing so since 2010 while senior IRS officials have known for at least two years AND lied about it to congress. That they investigate others in the course of business is a given, what matters is they targeted only those with a conservative bent. What are you missing here about how disturbing, corrupt and ILLEGAL this is?

Show me where they ONLY targeted conservative groups?

Show me where they ONLY targeted conservative groups?

I give up, I tried.

Again this is captain obvious material . The IRS would not be specifically apologizing the right wing groups if they were being even handed.

Why are "patriots" and "tea party" people applying for tax exemption?

Why are "patriots" and "tea party" people applying for tax exemption?

Because they can.

Why does Media Matters get a tax break ?

Why does Hollywood get tax breaks with the billions they rake in?

Why does any number of lefty groups get tax breaks... like Move-on.org Planned Parenthood, and the SOuthern Poverty Law center... CAIR, La RAZA, etc...

Those are companies. I was referring to individuals.

Edit : NM I see they are orgs too. Sorry.

Those are companies. I was referring to individuals.

Not when you name TEA PARTY or PATRIOT groups... those are NO different than any of the groups I mentioned...

Because part of the criminal actions of the IRS was to get people to name individuals illegally... so they can be individually singled out for harassment additionally by the IRS under Obamas orders... and its going to come back to Obama and his flunkies... because this is purely political in nature.

so they can be individually singled out for harassment additionally by the IRS under Obamas ordersYou're funny when you make stuff up. LOL.

Hello again,

Right wing Utah Republican wants to keep "illegals" out (http://www.scribd.com/doc/140185389/Sen-Mike-Lee-Immigration-Amendment)except when hiring them as butlers, nannies or maids.

Please, think of the rich and their need for cheap labor. What are they to do without their poorly paid illegal immigrant servants? Those rich folks NEED their houses cleaned..

excon

How about including a clause that prohibits any new people (illegal aliens) that gain citizenship from being allowed to vote for 25 years if this isn't all about politics and votes.

What ever you wingers come up with it better be good because what you say and do is watched by millions, who aren't wingers.

See I was right... its all about buying votes... you don't give a damn about the people...

Otherwise you would think it's a great way to prove its not about buying votes.

Hello again,

Right wing Utah Republican wants to keep "illegals" out (http://www.scribd.com/doc/140185389/Sen-Mike-Lee-Immigration-Amendment)except when hiring them as butlers, nannies or maids.

Please, think of the rich and their need for cheap labor. What are they to do without their poorly paid illegal immigrant servants? Those rich folks NEED their houses cleaned..

excon

Dude, that's been part of Democrat argument for amnesty for a long time, to do those jobs Americans won't do. I believe you've used it.

Meanwhile, the plot thickens as a pattern emerges. The EPA also follows the IRS double standard (http://cei.org/news-releases/epa-gives-info-free-big-green-groups-92-time-denies-93-fee-waiver-requests-biggest-con), they waived fees for FOIA requests from green groups 92% of the time while rejecting such requests from conservative groups 93% of the time.

The FCC followed the same pattern (cei.org/news-releases/epa-gives-info-free-big-green-groups-92-time-denies-93-fee-waiver-requests-biggest-con) and the Department of Homeland Security politicized such requests as well (http://oversight.house.gov/report/a-new-era-of-openness-how-and-why-political-staff-at-dhs-interfered-with-the-foia-process/).

So much for the new era of transparency Obama would usher in... along with free speech, free press, privacy, government neutrality...

It's a stupid amendment... except for one proviso . If someone hires the kid down the street to mow the lawn every week ;or the teenage girl across the street to baby sit ;should it really be necessary to go through e-verify ? The amendment like most of the bills that get passed is probably poorly worded and not specific enough .

You know I would like to believe you but what you are saying is government and politicians are unprofessional, I find that hard to believe

you know I would like to believe you but what you are saying is government and politicians are unprofessional, I find that hard to believe

The body of evidence supports my position. These jerks don't even read the amendments and bills that are crafted in their name . They hire flunkies that know how to write in legalese . Only when someone else dissects the written manure do they realize that they screwed up .

Strange system

People who don't believe in government for everybody and those that want rich people to rule over others are making it not only strange but weird and vastly ineffective.

Its all about who has power and control over the money like it always is.

People who don't believe in government for everybody and those that want rich people to rule over others are making it not only strange but weird and vastly ineffective.

Its all about who has power and control over the money like it always is.

More proof the left doesn't believe the GOvernment is for everyone... they feel its just for them... and they should force the people they hate to foot all of the bills... but Oh... they don't have a say because they don't have any rights like the Illuminatti do.

I.E. they want the Welfare bums to run everything and tell the people who actually work and pay taxes how much THEIR FAIR SHARE is even though they contribute nothing themselves.

No smoothy my statement isn't proof of your position, that's your own twisted spin so you can holler about who deserves what but fact is rich guys have gotten richer and more people have gotten poor because that's what you guys believe in.

The few over the many because you think you are better than the rest of us.

People who don't believe in government for everybody and those that want rich people to rule over others are making it not only strange but weird and vastly ineffective.

Jon Stewart has an answer to that today, too, in relation to the IRS scandal...


“This has, in one seismic moment, shifted the burden of proof from the tin foil behatted to the government. The VA claims backlog and the bounced checks and foreclosure clusterf**k had already given government competence fetishists fits. And now this. In a few short weeks, you’ve managed to show that when the government wants to do good things, your managerial competence falls somewhere between David Brent and a cat chasing a laser pointer. But when government wants to flex its more malevolent muscles, YOU’RE F**KIN’ IRON MAN!!”

He's absolutely right, but I think it goes further. I don't believe for a minute the left wants government for everyone, even your statement belies that notion. The left wants government for them, they give a crap about those who don't walk in lockstep with them.

What this past week has so ably demonstrated is we have damned good and obvious reasons for not trusting government, yet you apparently can't see that? In my opinion you're just upset that this administration's deception, incompetence, and abuse of powers has set your agenda back.

The left only gets upset if they are the ones being forced to bend over the table with their pants around their knees. But think nothing of doing that to others.

I fully expect there to be another Vince Foster Type incident before this is over.

We need To spray this heavily around the White house and the Senate.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5071/5909637657_847bb2f3a1_z.jpg

Hello:

Allen West is going to challenge EX Tea Party favorite Marco Rubio for his senate seat. Now if that's not the right getting RIGHTER, I don't know what is. I guess Rubio is a RINO now that he wrote the immigration bill.

Who would YOU vote for if you were a Floridian?

excon

Not accurate.

"Former congressman Allen West (R-Fla.) declined Wednesday to rule out a primary challenge (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/06/19/allen-west-wont-rule-out-primary-against-rubio/) against Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) in 2016, but also noted that it would be a “pretty heavy lift.”

"Declined to rule out" does not equal "is gonna."

Hello again, Steve:

Picky, picky, picky!

excon

Why shouldn't he ? Let them put their issues on the table and let the voters decide. No Rubio is not a RINO . He's trying to make an impossible situation work . He won't get anywhere however because Reid has already determined that he can make more political hay by stalling the bill in the Senate ;and blaming the Repubics for it .

Hello again, tom:

Nahhh... The Senate is going to pass it. It's the Tea Party kooks in the House who're going to stop it.

But, every right winger is afraid of being primaryied, aren't they?

excon

Right.

No I'd say the TP is in good position to do some primary(ing ) . Just don't know why West would go for Rubio's seat when Rick Scott has proven to be a Rovian RINO.

If you get rid of the Rino's, minorities, women, and young people, whose left to vote for you?

Hello again, tom:

Let me see. Rick Scott just made marijuana pipes illegal whether used or not, putting head shops out of business. He just signed an ALEC bill that killed sick pay. And, he LOOKS like a rabid right winger. How come the Tea Party isn't loving him?

excon

Christie takes on the unions all the time too and I think he's a RINO . But you are in error . The bill does not "kill" paid sick leave. I'm sure the majority of Florida employers offer their employees paid sick leave and the bill does nothing to block employers from offering that benefit. The bill gives Florida employers a choice . They are just not required by law to pay workers for days they don't show up for work . You are an employer so you know that many employees abuse the benefit . To them it's a "use it or lose it " proposition . So often it becomes in effect the equivant of vacation benefit.
Hate to sound harsh about it ;but that is a fact .

Hello again, tom:

Let me see. Rick Scott just made marijuana pipes illegal whether used or not, putting head shops out of business. He just signed an ALEC bill that killed sick pay. And, he LOOKS like a rabid right winger. How come the Tea Party isn't loving him?

Excon

You apparently suffer from that liberal "if it’s not mandatory, it's banned" mentality (http://washingtonexaminer.com/if-its-not-mandatory-is-it-banned/article/2532104?custom_click=rss).


One of the most persistent canards the Obama campaign got away with was that Republicans wanted to “end access to birth control.” What Republicans were opposing wasn’t “whether or not you can have contraception,” as one Democratic Congresswoman put it, but whether your boss should be required to pay for your birth control.

I tried to refrain from using the “lie” word against the Democrats saying these things and the journalists repeating them as if they were true, because I think the liberal mindset sometimes doesn’t differentiate between state action and non-state action. If your boss says you need to pay for your own birth control, that may actually seem to some liberals as equivalent to the government banning birth control, somehow. Some liberals think that unless something is mandatory, it’s as good as prohibited.

Sure enough, the liberal ThinkProgress blog this week talks that way involving paid sick leave.

Some local governments in Florida want to force employers to pay their employees for sick days. The state government just passed a law saying municipalities may not do this. Think Progress writes: “Florida Governor Signs Business-Backed Bill Banning Paid Sick Leave.”

But of course, the bill doesn’t “ban paid sick leave.” If it did, it would become illegal for employers to pay employees for sick days. Instead of restricting employers, the bill restricts local government and protects the freedom of employers in this regard.

Let's see if you can start trying to make the correct distinctions.

My itch is will state law conflict with federal law? That's nullification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification)if it does.

Nullification (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/Glossary/Nullif.html)

My itch is will state law conflict with federal law? That's nullification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification)if it does.

Nullification (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/Glossary/Nullif.html)

If state Law conflicts with federal law... federal law trumps it. Assuming the federal law stands up to be challenged as constitutional.

One more reason why Obamas uber-large government isn't good for anyone.

My itch is will state law conflict with federal law? That's nullification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification)if it does.

Nullification (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/Glossary/Nullif.html)

Ok, does federal law require paid sick leave?

Left wing moving further left as Obama once again pivots to an issue Americans don't care much about and sure to sap even make energy more expensive...


Obama to announce Tuesday he will regulate existing power plants as part of climate strategy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/06/22/obama-to-announce-tuesday-he-will-regulate-existing-power-plants-as-part-of-climate-strategy/)

President Obama will announce Tuesday in a speech at Georgetown University that he plans to regulate greenhouse-gas emissions from existing power plants, according to individuals who have been briefed on the plan but asked not to be identified.

So here we go, America wants jobs and a better economy and what do we get? Gun control, amnesty and climate change. But wait, you say this will be good for the economy?


In Saturday’s statement, Obama emphasized the economic opportunities that could come from tackling carbon emissions.

“We’ll need scientists to design new fuels, and farmers to grow them,” he said. “We’ll need engineers to devise new sources of energy, and businesses to make and sell them.”

So we're sitting on this huge stockpile of clean natural gas and we're going to once again grow our energy instead of food? Didn't we just have a bipartisan effort to repeal the ridiculous ethanol mandate, (http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2532274?slideout=1) another folly no one wanted foisted on us?

I miss buying corn on the cob 10 for a dollar, I won't miss ethanol.

“We'll need scientists to design new fuels, and farmers to grow them,”
Oh cr@P ! Another idiot pushing for farmers using productive land to grow biofuels !No doubt there will be more subsidies to ADM and higher food prices for the rest of us.

oh cr@P ! another idiot pushing for farmers using productive land to grow biofuels !No doubt there will be more subsidies to ADM and higher food prices for the rest of us.

Yep.

Hello again,

Hmmmm... Hemp is a better biofuel crop. It produces MORE energy per acre than corn does. It doesn't compete with food. It's legal to grow it here, and the loadies THROW the stalks away, which is where the fiber (and the MONEY) is..

Anybody want to go into the biofuels bidness? I'll bet we can get some Obama money? And, I PROMISE, I won't smoke it up.

excon

Hello again,

Hmmmm... Hemp is a better biofuel crop. It produces MORE energy per acre than corn does. It doesn't compete with food. It's legal to grow it here, and the loadies THROW the stalks away, which is where the fiber (and the MONEY) is..

Anybody wanna go into the biofuels bidness? I'll bet we can get some Obama money? And, I PROMISE, I won't smoke it up.

excon

No thanks, I think I'm going to open up a medical marijuana shop in Colorado.

Hello again,

Hmmmm... Hemp is a better biofuel crop. It produces MORE energy per acre than corn does. It doesn't compete with food. It's legal to grow it here, and the loadies THROW the stalks away, which is where the fiber (and the MONEY) is..

Anybody wanna go into the biofuels bidness? I'll bet we can get some Obama money? And, I PROMISE, I won't smoke it up.

excon

Got no problem with that once someone can prove to me that the conversion of the plant to the fuel doesn't consume more energy than it produces.

I'm not opposed to biofuels . When there is a legit market for them ,I'm all in . I like the Brazil solution . They have lots of sugar cane ;and it's much more efficient to convert sugar to ethanol than corn. But my favorite biofuel potential is converting algae .

got no problem with that once someone can prove to me that the conversion of the plant to the fuel doesn't consume more energy than it produces.

I'm not opposed to biofuels . When there is a legit market for them ,I'm all in . I like the Brazil solution . They have lots of sugar cane ;and it's much more efficent to convert sugar to ethanol than corn. But my favorite biofuel potential is converting algae .

Biofuel is generally a zero sum gain. There are occasions such as begasse where a valuable resource would otherwise be wasted or in the timber industry where there is a considerable resource available in offcuts, etc but these are specialist situations which only produce a fraction of the energy requirement of the industry. Growing substances to convert to fuel will ultimately prove to be a waste of the land resource where food will be required.

Agreed... I think for the most part ,they will be a niche industry . Some are better than others .I'm still interested in biofuel from algae potential . There's lots of algae available to harvest ,and it's fairly easy to farm. If you are worried about CO2 ;it is a zero sum game... Burning algae as fuel releases CO2 ;and growing algae consumes it. The claim is that algae yields between 10 and 100 times more fuel per unit area than other biofuel crops. There would be comparatively many fewer acres of space used to produce it compared to the thousands of acres used to grow corn for ethanol . And few people ,except for some health nuts ,consume algae on a regular basis.

I just get to the point where I am past big agribusiness

If it works, big business will be there . That's just reality .And the reality is that algae biofuel is potentially a $50 billion dollar industry . Exxon Mobil is already heavily invested .which tells me there could be a future in it .

Texas seems determined to make abortion next to impossible in spite of support from pro-choice groups. The country is moving forward on gay marriage, but has been moving backwards on abortion. Hard to believe the pro choice movement is losing ground in so many states 40 years after Roe vs Wade.

if it works, big business will be there . That's just reality .And the reality is that algae biofuel is potentially a $50 billion dollar industry . Exxon Mobil is already heavily invested .which tells me there could be a future in it .

What you are saying is there is a future in continuing with the current level of technology rather than moving to all electric cars which would see the oil companies out of business

Don't get me started about electric cars . All they do is use carbon fuels to generate electric power that gets transferred to the batteries. The only difference is that the fuel is coming from a power plant to the car instead of an processing plant to the gas station.

Texas seems determined to make abortion next to impossible in spite of support from pro-choice groups. The country is moving forward on gay marriage, but has been moving backwards on abortion. Hard to believe the pro choice movement is losing ground in so many states 40 years after Roe vs Wade.

Some things like reducing the number of children killed in infanticide is not a "moving backward " proposition.

Some things like reducing the number of children killed in infanticide is not a "moving backward " proposition.But guns are good, right?

Unrelated and irrelevant to the discussion.

unrelated and irrelevant to the discussion.said by people who see an embarassing-to-them point about to be made.

Nope said by someone who understands the right to protect life.

nope said by someone who understands the right to protect life.

Then exploit it when its born, till it dies. The only thing worse is a dead beat dad.

I am neither a dead beat dad or promote what they do . So your answer for dead beat dads is to wack their kids ? Nice .

You whack 'em after they are born so what's the difference?

Then exploit it when its born, till it dies. The only thing worse is a dead beat dad.

Like using them as government shills for Obamacare (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3494862-post429.html) or props for gun control?

You whack 'em after they are born so what's the difference?

Not me...

Like using them as government shills for Obamacare or props for gun control?That talking point has been debunked. Please try again.

Yeah it's not "shill"
It's "outreach" . In this case a distinction without a difference.

Only if you believe your blogs instead of the actual source.

“Teens are part of a 'pilot' program to test whether young people can be trained as messengers to deliver outreach and limited education to family and friends in and around their homes,” said Gayle Pollard-Terry, a LAUSD spokesman, in an email.

The source confirms it.

Kind of like religious parents to their children?

Should both be stopped?

Kind of like religious parents to their children?

Should both be stopped?

No more than stopping you from whatever it is you teach your kids.

I don't indoctrinate them to believe in a invisible old man who lives in the clouds.

I don't indoctrinate them to believe in a invisible old man who lives in the clouds.

Neither do we and even if we did what's that to you? I don't interfere in raising your kids, if you want them to grow up ignorant of all the possibilities that's your business.

My friends daughter taught her grand parents English, and helps them fill out forms for goods, services, and benefits, including on line bill paying. If you don't want anyone telling you how to raise your kids, then don't tell them how to raise theirs.

Make your choices, and let them make theirs. Seems reasonable to me.

My friends daughter taught her grand parents English, and helps them fill out forms for goods, services, and benefits, including on line bill paying. If you don't want anyone telling you how to raise your kids, then don't tell them how to raise theirs.

Make your choices, and let them make theirs. Seems reasonable to me.

If I were telling others how to raise their kids you might have a point. Otherwise, what part of using children to spread government messages is wrong do you not get? Oh that's right, our kids don't belong to us. And I'm sure you'll miss the irony in that.

Oh that's right, our kids don't belong to us.They do! Why do you keep saying that?

Because that's what the lefties say
Your Kids Don't Belong to You - Mellisa Harris-Perry - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-NainjrJ6o)

He keeps saying it because he doesn't believe it takes a village to raise kids*, but he makes an exception to his village telling you how to raise YOUR kids.


* The phrase is attributed to an old African proverb. Its exact origin seems to be lost in time. In 1994 children's author Jane Cowen-Fletcher released a book, published by Scholastic Press, titled It Takes A Village in which a young African girl searches for her younger brother, only to find the rest of the village has been watching over him as well.

In January 1996 publisher Simon & Schuster released hillary Rodham-Clinton's It Takes a Village: And Other Lessons Children Teach Us. Reviews are mixed.

In May 2001, publisher Harper-Collins released the seventh book in the Lemony Snicket's Unfortunate Events series titled The Vile Village, it was mentioned at the beginning of the book, "It takes a village to raise a child."
*

Source- Who said it takes a village to raise a child (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_said_it_takes_a_village_to_raise_a_child)

Who cares what a political commentator says. In the same vein that we dismiss what Fox commentators say. It ain't policy or law.

Also how many times have you told us that one righty doesn't speak for all of you? Why are the rules different for you?

He keeps saying it because he doesn't believe it takes a village to raise kids*, but he makes an exception to his village telling you how to raise YOUR kids.



Source- Who said it takes a village to raise a child (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_said_it_takes_a_village_to_raise_a_child)

Excuse me? You have this habit of saying I like to tell others how to raise their kids when in fact I have consistently defended your right to raise them your way. That you want kids raised by the village tells us it would be you interfering with how the rest of us want to raise is ours.

Show me where I have done as you said.

Show me where I have done as you said.

In your world we're always imposing, forcing or otherwise interjecting where we shouldn't be, like here:

"If you don't want anyone telling you how to raise your kids, then don't tell them how to raise theirs."

The implication is clear, by objecting to public schools exploiting kids on behalf of Obamacare we are telling others how to raise their kids, according to your logic. You did the same thing over the contraception mandate, in objecting to forcing the church to pay for contraceptives you interpret that as forcing our beliefs on you.

Who cares what a political commentator says. In the same vein that we dismiss what Fox commentators say. It ain't policy or law.

Also how many times have you told us that one righty doesn't speak for all of you? Why are the rules different for you?

Well as Tal points out ;Evita wrote a whole book on the subject... and she's likely to be the standard bearer for the Dems in 2016

Evita wrote a whole book on the subject.. Actually it's the modus operandi of the rightys on this board. I wasn't referring to anything outside this board.

on behalf of ObamacareBut it isn't about Obamacare though.
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/its-come-rev-2-a-741180-43.html#post3494803

But it isn't about Obamacare though.
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/its-come-rev-2-a-741180-43.html#post3494803

That is Obamacare. California is the big testing ground which is why they're exploiting kids to help get as many enrolled as possible.

Yes Kalifornia is the big testing ground.. The emperor touts it's success. However ,it isn't working so well. Their exchange system is so successful that 3 of the major insurance companies in the nation are refusing to participate in Covered California . (United Health ,Aetna ,Cigna) The only thing successful about it is that Jerry Brown has been able to milk $910 billion out of the federal coffers . Instead of increasing the market and fostering competition ,the Kalifornia system is shrinking the number of providers and giving an even larger market share to Kaiser Permanante, Anthem Blue Cross, and Blue Shield . And who will pay for the lack of competition and the mandates imposed ? Well the Kalifornia consumer of course !
Especially the young and healthy who are trying to begin families and careers.
Implementing Obamacare: The rate-shock danger | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/06/implementing-obamacare)

Don't worry Tom soon you will only be able to afford one insurer and when that collapes under the weight...

Hello again,

I have a supposition to make. In order to discuss my supposition, you'd have to agree with my premise, and I don't think the right wingers will..

My PREMISE is that, in spite of saying JOBS are their number #1 priority, abortion and voter ID laws are what they're actually DOING... However, in spite of the efforts to suppress the vote, the OPPOSITE happened, and the black people came out in droves. Obama won.

My supposition is, that what we witnessed in the Texas legislature, is just the beginning of the backlash against the war on women. In SPITE of gerrymandering gone wild, I predict the Democrats will take over the House in 2014.

excon

Oh so it wasn't Hispanics that swung the vote in the Emperor's favor ? Hmmm . Actually it was the combination of lower white turnout because the milquetoast candidate the Repubics fielded ;the successful suppression of the conservative vote by the IRS ,and black women voters . Nationally, the voting rate among all women was about four percentage points higher than among all men. But among African-American voters, that gap was nearly nine percentage points.All that data-mining really helped .That is why the emperor defends the NSA blanket warrants .

And about those jobs? What is the black unemployment rate 4 1/2 years later ? And what are the Dems doing about it ? Oh yeah ,they are creating legislation to bring in more low wage immigrants to compete with the black work force.

Ex are you saying that tightened voter-registration laws result in greater participation on the part of blacks ? I agree ,it's good for blacks ,it's good for the integrity of the franchise .It's a win-win.

;the successful suppression of the conservative vote by the IRS ,

Which planet do you live on. You need to prove that statement. The IRS may have delayed the registeration of some right wing organisations with political not charitable objectives but they did not make it a disadvantage to vote

Hello again,

I have a supposition to make. In order to discuss my supposition, you'd have to agree with my premise, and I don't think the right wingers will..

My PREMISE is that, in spite of saying JOBS are their number #1 priority, abortion and voter ID laws are what they're actually DOING... However, in spite of the efforts to suppress the vote, the OPPOSITE happened, and the black people came out in droves. Obama won.

My supposition is, that what we witnessed in the Texas legislature, is just the beginning of the backlash against the war on women. In SPITE of gerrymandering gone wild, I predict the Democrats will take over the House in 2014.

excon

In Texas, you've probably heard the economy is pretty good and we've been recruiting businesses to keep moving here so the jobs thing is covered. We had time to protect women from butchers and stop murdering kids after 20 weeks.

As for your backlash and media orgasm, nice that libs are standing against the people (who overwhelmingly support this measure) and the powerless (the innocent child) in an attempt at mob rule.

No, not a right-wing wacko update, a left-wing wacko update.


Bankrupt? Detroit leaders still chasing away jobs (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130813/OPINION01/308130019/1008/OPINION01/Bankrupt-Detroit-leaders-still-chasing-away-jobs)

Detroit lost a growing business this month and Detroit politicians cheered. The blue-collar jobs that Detroit Bulk Storage supports at its Detroit River loading dock will disappear this fall after U.S. Congressmen Gary Peters, D-Bloomfield Township, and John Conyers, D-Detroit, and state House Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Detroit, protested the loading of a coal-like energy source, petroleum coke, on barges for export to power plants. The Democratic frontrunner for Michigan’s 2014 Senate seat, Peters is already using his “victory” in a campaign ad to raise money.

But what about Detroit’s business base?

The loss of the pet coke loading business comes as Detroit also mourns the death of dynamic American Axle CEO Richard Dauch, coincidentally a few months after union intransigence had forced the demise of his huge Detroit auto parts plant at a loss of 300 jobs.

As Detroit struggles through bankruptcy, the Detroit Bulk Storage and American Axle stories are grim reminders of how political and union leadership still hinder job creation in Detroit. They are a lesson beyond Detroit’s borders. If Motown is to put Chapter 9 in its rear view mirror — and if America is to jump-start its economy — then its political class must partner with business to grow, not use it as a political punching bag.


Shaking my head...

Of course there I more to the story than a poor businessman being run out of business

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/right-wing-moving-further-right-2-0-a-742592-17.html#post3529456

Detroit Mayor orders Koch brothers company to clean up that disgusting mess which created a black cloud over the river | FreakOutNation (http://freakoutnation.com/2013/08/13/detroit-mayor-orders-koch-brothers-company-to-clean-up-that-disgusting-mess-which-created-a-black-cloud-over-the-river/)

Detroit River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_River)

Why stop at one article when there is so much more? Oh and anybody that tells you coal is clean is an absolute LIAR, don't care who says it. IT WILL KILL YOU.

Everyone get out the tin foil hats...

Of course there I more to the story than a poor businessman being run out of business

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/right-wing-moving-further-right-2-0-a-742592-17.html#post3529456

Detroit Mayor orders Koch brothers company to clean up that disgusting mess which created a black cloud over the river | FreakOutNation (http://freakoutnation.com/2013/08/13/detroit-mayor-orders-koch-brothers-company-to-clean-up-that-disgusting-mess-which-created-a-black-cloud-over-the-river/)

Detroit River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_River)

Why stop at one article when there is so much more?? Oh and anybody that tells you coal is clean is an absolute LIAR, don't care who says it. IT WILL KILL YOU.

It isn't coal, and if you guys won't even talk because you're blinded by the thought it MIGHT hurt the environment then shut the hell up about squeal and repeal and obstruction. It's like your war on fracking in spite of the fact it's directly responsible for the shale gas boom and our reduction in CO2 emissions. Why do you guys hate science and jobs, and Canada which is where this pet coke us coming from?

Well just dandy, we ignore the spills and breaks that have bubble up, here and Canada, that they clean up with bounty towels. How do you ignore the links of the places I have given you that they still haven't gotten the spills under control? Bet if it was YOUR neighborhood you would pay attention, or you river they polluted.

Anyone that grown up near a coal processing plant or steel mill or oil refinery knows coal, petroleum, and all it's forms, and derivatives. Why do you think we sell it to China?

Well just dandy, we ignore the spills and breaks that have bubble up, here and Canada, that they clean up with bounty towels. How do you ignore the links of the places I have given you that they still haven't gotten the spills under control? Bet if it was YOUR neighborhood you would pay attention, or you river they polluted.

Anyone that grown up near a coal processing plant or steel mill or oil refinery knows coal, petroleum, and all it's forms, and derivatives. Why do you think we sell it to China?

Why do you ignore the current science and successes? You do know one of your seems just switched parties because of your nonexistent war on coal and jobs, right?

The current science is a grid system that transfers clean energy all over the country efficiently and screw digging in the dirt.

XL Pipeline Leak is STILL a Disaster (w/ video) - Gas 2 (http://gas2.org/2012/03/03/keystone-xl-leak-is-still-a-disaster-w-video/)

Explain the successes to those people. I can dig progress and success, but what of safety, and the people it affects? Doesn't count because the profits just keep rolling.

Who need clean air, water, and soil.

Anyone that grown up near a coal processing plant or steel mill or oil refinery knows coal, petroleum, and all it's forms, and derivatives.
Why don't you ask the people of West Virginia if they want to see the coal industry shut down like the emperor plans ?

I grew up in the middle of that... Coal... natural gas and Steel... I don't want ANY of them shut down. THose three are a huge percentage of the jobs and economy of the entire region where I am from... its not as big a part as it once was... but then that's why the economy of the region is so bad... because there was and is nothing to replace it, not even the small part that went away. And its been well over 30 years since the dumping of Japanese steel decimated the regions economy.. (Thecollapse of the steel industry took out a large part of the coal industry ad all the supporting industries for both).and its never recovered.

Get a clue Tom, its not up to the people who work everyday and get filthy, its up to the guy who owns the land and makes the profits. Why don't you ask the real workers why they have to die in those mines because the boss cut corners on safety? Or the ones denied benefits and insurance when those mines get closed, or moved.

You obviously have never been ordered into a hole before it was vented properly, ordered to pressurize a line before the concrete had set properly to hurry and save time and move a job along quickly to make profits. People die when you take short cut to save tie and money. Seems the human costs mean nothing to you capitalists.

You can hate unions and Obama all you want because it also mean you value profits over people too. And you expect your workers to die making the boss rich.

Get a clue Tom, its not up to the people who work everyday and get filthy, its up to the guy who owns the land and makes the profits. Why don't you ask the real workers why they have to die in those mines because the boss cut corners on safety? Or the ones denied benefits and insurance when those mines get closed, or moved.

You obviously have never been ordered into a hole before it was vented properly, ordered to pressurize a line before the concrete had set properly to hurry up and save time and move a job along quickly to make profits. People die when you take short cut to save tie and money. Seems the human costs mean nothing to you capitalists.

You can hate unions and Obama all you want because it also mean you value profits over people too. And you expect your workers to die making the boss rich.

Again with the union crap, they did their job. We have so many regulations via OSHA, MSHA, etc. that that greedy business owner has to comply with and if they don't, they get smacked down. You forget, my business is safety and I work with a multitude of energy companies, construction businesses and a nuclear weapons facility. You don't get on their property without adhering to their safety requirements, so you can drop the "we must have unions to stay safe" nonsense - I KNOW what's required by the regulations and the corporations and it's mind boggling.

Hello again, righty's:

Not moving further right?? Pick one for prez: Christy, Cruz, Paul, or Santorum. I would include Trump in that list, but this is a serious question.

excon

Christie is no righty and Paul is a libertarian. You used to like libertarians, you used to regularly say "vote for Ron Paul."

Hello again, Steve:

I like RON. His son sucks. He's NO libertarian. He's a righty HIDING in libertarian clothes.

excon

Ok.

Again with the union crap, they did their job. We have so many regulations via OSHA, MSHA, etc. that that greedy business owner has to comply with and if they don't, they get smacked down. You forget, my business is safety and I work with a multitude of energy companies, construction businesses and a nuclear weapons facility. You don't get on their property without adhering to their safety requirements, so you can drop the "we must have unions to stay safe" nonsense - I KNOW what's required by the regulations and the corporations and it's mind boggling.

It was the unions who pushed those companies for industry safety standards because guy like you never would, and again you ignore the fact that you enjoy a union fought for pay scale.

You enjoy the effort of those who fought the battles you didn't want to, so get off the we don't need BS!!

But I'll bite, which safety standard are you saying is so unfair it needs to be stopped?

Christie is a RINO who counts the emperor's hemorrhoids.

It was the unions who pushed those companies for industry safety standards because guy like you never would, and again you ignore the fact that you enjoy a union fought for pay scale.

You enjoy the effort of those who fought the battles you didn't want to, so get off the we don't need BS!!

Spare me the BS, Tal. I have already multiple times acknowledged the union role in worker safety and wages. If that's what they were about then fine, but as I said before they are about pushing a liberal political agenda and fattening their own wallets. Look what they've done to Detroit, but you'll blame that on greedy corporations because you have tunnel vision.

Unions are UNNECESSARY, we have a government nanny now and I will not genuflect to the union gods who themselves worship at the Democratic altar. If you don't like it, get over it. I don't expect you to worship conservatism.


But I'll bite, which safety standard are you saying is so unfair it needs to be stopped?

Yet another total misrepresentation of what I said. The term was "mind boggling." Look it up.

Hello again,

What thread is this? Does it make a difference?? I don't think so...

Having said that, I wonder what you wingers think about the policeman's union? It keeps cops on the beat who BEAT people up. You know, tough cops. Don't right wingers support TOUGH cops? Should the union represent THEM?

Personally, I HATE the policeman's union... Until recently, that union DUPED the city into paying its president's SALARY because he was a uniformed cop.. But, his FULL TIME job was to run the union...

excon

Hello again,

What thread is this?? Does it make a difference??? I don't think so...

Having said that, I wonder what you wingers think about the policeman's union? It keeps cops on the beat who BEAT people up. You know, tough cops. Don't right wingers support TOUGH cops? Should the union represent THEM?

Personally, I HATE the policeman's union... Until recently, that union DUPED the city into paying its president's SALARY because he was a uniformed cop.. But, his FULL TIME job was to run the union...

excon

That's the union's job, keep people in their jobs no matter how badly they suck at them to keep collecting those union dues to spend on Democrats, bus trips to harass people and stuff in their leader's wallets. What, you thought they were about safety and all that, too?

Hello again, Steve:

You hit the nail on the head... I've NEVER been thrilled about them. When a job I wanted required union membership, BECAUSE I didn't have a family member in the union, they wouldn't let me join...

Nonetheless, unions are the ONLY large organizations that contribute to Democrats.. If they were gone, the field would be left to the Koch brothers and the Karl Rove types. That's what the PURPOSE of Citizens United was, wasn't it - to give the MONEYED interests a clear playing field?

So, as much as I HATE the unions, as long as they're the ONLY voice of the left, they'll GET my support..

Now, repeal Citizens United, and I'll get behind ending the unions..

excon

Doesn't matter that public service unions represent the largest unionized work force in the country(The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that, in 2009, for the first time ever, more public-sector employees (7.9 million) than private-sector employees (7.4 million) belonged to unions. )...

Or that public employees should not have union representation at all.
(even FDR understood that ).

LOL, you are seriously deluded if you think (or want us to) unions are the only large organization that contributes to Democrats. I guess you forget how much money Soros, his buddy and MoveOn alone spend on Dems and liberal/progressive advocacy. Gimme a break, we're not that stupid and that's really rich coming from the guy who voted for the first billion dollar candidate.

Hello again, tom:

If you want MY support at ending EVEN that behemoth, then call for a repeal of Citizens United..

At LEAST the leaders of the union are elected. IF their members didn't like who the union supported, the could VOTE that leadership out, and put in their own. The people who work for corporations have NO vote in how their corporation spends the money THEY contribute and/or make for their employer.

Do you really want to leave our elections to the MONEYED class?? You CAN'T believe they have YOUR interests at heart... Can you?

excon

Hello again, tom:

If you want MY support at ending EVEN that behemoth, then call for a repeal of Citizens United..

At LEAST the leaders of the union are elected. IF their members didn't like who the union supported, the could VOTE that leadership out, and put in their own. The people who work for corporations have NO vote in how their corporation spends the money THEY contribute and/or make for their employer.

Do you really want to leave our elections to the MONEYED class??? You CAN'T believe they have YOUR interests at heart... Can you??

excon

I wonder how you could think the rank and file "vote " for their leadership when there is no secret ballot in the union movement. The Iranians hold more honest elections.

You talk about the moneyed class when you have the public unions contributing to politicians who make laws that set their salaries ? Talk about a conflict of interest !

Um Ex... are you aware voting for the union leadership is exactly like "Elections" in the old Soviet Union. The only people that even get a shot at an office are a union insider...

They first worry about their friends in their favorite offices in their local... and everyone else gets the crumbs of what's left.

And we are talking large well known unions... that everyone has heard of.

Hello again, righty's:

Read my Lips.. If you want ME to throw unions under the bus, and I WILL, then throw Citizens United under the bus..

But, you can stop telling me how bad unions are.

excon

Hello again, righty's:

Read my Lips.. If you want ME to throw unions under the bus, and I WILL, then throw Citizens United under the bus..

But, you can stop telling me how bad unions are.

excon

As long as Tal expects me to genuflect to the union gods I will call them the cancer that they are.

I'd say Citizens United leveled the playing field especially in regards to public unions ,who "negotiate " their salaries with the same pols they bribe with campaign contributions... salaries that are paid for with tax dollars .

Hello again:

It seems to me that a conservative would be supportive of conserving one of our oldest institutions, the Post Office. But, they don't. They actually HATE it. I have a feeling, though, that they'd LOVE it, if it weren't unionized..

Would I be close?

excon

THe Post office is an exaple of PC run amuk.

Try and get a job there if you aren't a War Vet, a minority or a woman...

A Black woman Vet with an IQ of 70 would get the job before Albert Einstien would because of perferential points given for each of those three categories.

It's a prime example of why Afirmative action is actually reverse racism.

Yeah why should a dumb black woman who has served her country have a job at the post office when all those smart white guys need a job?

Is that really your position?

Hello again:

It seems to me that a conservative would be supportive of conserving one of our oldest institutions, the Post Office. But, they don't. They actually HATE it. I have a feeling, though, that they'd LOVE it, if it weren't unionized..

Would I be close?

excon

The Postal Service can't compete in it's primary function. Why would we keep it going except to give more people government jobs ? It would be very simple for them to compete if they ever actually operated as a real business. Here's one example . It costs me the same postage to mail a letter to my neighbor as it does to send one cross country to you. Why ? Private carrier services figured out a long time ago to zone rates.
The truth is that their service is rapidly becoming a dinosaur. With e-mail and on-line payments ,most of the mail I receive is junk mailers that are quicky discarded unread. So the question remains . So we need it ? A service like the Post Office is clearly constitutional and made sense in the horse and buggy days . It is much harder to justify it's continued existence.

Hello again:

It seems to me that a conservative would be supportive of conserving one of our oldest institutions, the Post Office. But, they don't. They actually HATE it. I have a feeling, though, that they'd LOVE it, if it weren't unionized..

Would I be close?

excon

I don't hate the postal service, I actually like getting mail delivered and at a reasonable price but it's so unnecessary these days. I can do nearly everything they do electronically except physically get something from one place to another. What I hate is it's just like every other thing the government has its hand in, it's woefully inefficient and overly complicated.

Part of my job is shipping, mostly parcel, and USPS is a pain in the a$$ to use. I can ship UPS with all the bells and whistles; email notifications, delivery receipts etc. in a matter of seconds - and have a daily pickup. What's not to love?

I do the same with USPS. No problems so far. What's funny though, most times my UPS, and FEDEX packages go to the post office and the mailman delivers them.

I do the same with USPS. No problems so far. What's funny though, most times my UPS, and FEDEX packages go to the post office and the mailman delivers them.

Yes, sometimes (especially Fedex) uses USPS, but I never have anything shipped UPS delivered by anyone other than UPS. But there is no comparison in my view, UPS is much more user friendly than anyone else.

Hello again, Steve:

But there is no comparison in my view, UPS is much more user friendly than anyone else.If congress wanted the post office to be competitive, they could make it so.. But, they'd rather kill it, instead.

Excon

Do you print your own mailing label?

Hello again, Steve:
If congress wanted the post office to be competitive, they could make it so.. But, they'd rather kill it, instead.

excon

I think the congress is screwing the postal service myself.

It's pouring money down a sinkhole.

Postal Service expects only five-day cash reserve in October (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/08/13/postal-service-expects-only-five-day-cash-reserve-in-october/)

The corresponding unions and their Democrat allies have blocked any attempt at reforming it, just like Detroit. Will you ever learn that after years of irresponsible management and spending money you don't have on promises you can't keep that eventually you have to pay the piper?

"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money." -Margaret Thatcher

Feel free to insert liberal/progressive for Socialist, same problem.

Hello again, Steve:
If congress wanted the post office to be competitive, they could make it so.. But, they'd rather kill it, instead.

excon

That would be a nice talking point if this was a recent development . But as you know... the Postal Service has been an inefficent money-pit for many years.

I'd say Citizens United leveled the playing field especially in regards to public unions ,who "negotiate " their salaries with the same pols they bribe with campaign contributions... salaries that are paid for with tax dollars .

On that note...


Investigators for the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee recently uncovered evidence of the lengths to which Pelosi and the House Democratic leadership are willing to go to stifle political speech with which they disagree, and it bears a disturbing similarity to the IRS scandal. There has been a concerted effort for several years among Democrats and their activist allies in the nonprofit world to force corporations to disclose more information about their support of independent political groups, especially those known as 501(C)(4) foundations, which are found across the ideological spectrum.

Forcing such disclosure could have a chilling effect on the firms' willingness to help groups supporting causes unpopular among liberal Democrats. As the Wall Street Journal pointed out, "corporations tend to support groups on both the left and the right, whereas unions are more reliably liberal. If businesses are limited in the public debate, it's a big win for Democrats (http://washingtonexaminer.com/examiner-editorial-the-great-divider-likes-political-speech-only-when-it-likes-him/article/2534279?utm_source=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinio n%20Digest%20Reoccurring%20-%2008/15/2013&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinion%20Di gest)."

that would be a nice talking point if this was a recent development . But as you know ...the Postal Service has been an inefficent money-pit for many years.

I don't suppose you would consider our model?

Australia Post - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_Post)

I'd consider other models .Like I said ;the Constitution gives the Federal Government the power to create a national postal service. With proper management and innovatin, it should be a no brainer to make it a profitable franchise.

Already, the Postal Service expects to default on its next payment for a controversial requirement to prefund its retiree health benefits. Congress imposed the rule in 2006, but USPS officials and labor groups are calling for a repeal of the policy, which costs the agency about $5.5 billion each year.

Congress Fiddles While the Post Office Burns | The Nation (http://www.thenation.com/blog/169234/congress-fiddles-while-post-office-burns#)


In 2006, a Republican Congress—acting at the behest of the Bush-Cheney administration—enacted a law that required the postal service to “pre-fund” retiree health benefits seventy-five years into the future. No major private-sector corporation or public-sector agency could do that. It's an untenable demand. “(The) Postal Service in the short term should be released from an onerous and unprecedented burden to pre-fund 75 years of future retiree health benefits over a 10-year period,” says US Senator Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont. “With $44 billion now in the fund, the Postal Service inspector general has said that program is already stronger than any other equivalent government or private-sector fund in the country. There already is more than enough in the account to meet all obligations to retirees.”

“The Postal Service should also be allowed to recover more than $13 billion in overpayments it has made to its pension plans,” adds Sanders. “With these changes alone, the Postal Service would be back in the black and posting profits.”

So what hasn't Obama fixed it? You had two years of total Democrat control so why were they fiddling instead of fixing? Oh that's right, they were busy ramming Obamacare down or throats.

What didn't Bush 8 years fix the liberal indoctrination education issue? Or during Reagan's tenure?

So what hasn't Obama fixed it? You had two years of total Democrat control so why were they fiddling instead of fixing? Oh that's right, they were busy ramming Obamacare down or throats.

The short answer is squeal, repeal, block, obstruct and destroy. Since 2008, that's been the only goal of republican. You guy are good at it.

A Manufactured 'Crisis': Congress Can Let The Post Office Save Itself Without Mass Layoffs Or Service Reductions | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/28/330524/postal-non-crisis-post-office-save-itself/)

Hello again, Steve:

You had two years of total Democrat control so why were they fiddling instead of fixing?According to your side, if he didn't fix EVERYTHING in his first two years, the problems he DIDN'T fix, clearly, CAN'T Be problems..

That's the stupidest crap I've EVER heard.

Excon

Hello again,

I got another question for our right wing batty friends...

I KNOW you reject global warming... But, I have a feeling, that what you reject, is what you PERCEIVE to be the solution, which would be HIGHER taxes, MORE government, and an assault on fossil fuels.

But, if we could come up with a solution that LOWERED taxes, stimulated economic growth, and left the oil companies alone, would you THEN accept global warming as real?

excon

Hello again,

Yeah, I got more to say... Although I BELIEVE in science, THIS particular science is full of holes. So, I came to my beliefs, NOT because of science, but because of simple OBSERVATIONS even a schmuck exconvict can make. You too, must have observed the same things...

When I was a kid, we threw our trash on the ground. We THOUGHT the ground was SOOOO big, that it would somehow swallow up, or otherwise HIDE the trash we threw there.. But, it didn't.

When I was in the Navy, we threw our trash off the fantail into the ocean.. We thought that the ocean was SOOOO big, that it would somehow swallow up the garbage, or otherwise HIDE it. But, it didn't.

Now, I know you object my terminology when I say TODAY, we are throwing our trash into the air, but there is NO OTHER way to describe what we're doing... Apparently, you think that the sky is SOOOO big, that it will somehow swallow up the trash we throw up there, or otherwise HIDE it. But, it doesn't. I can SEE it. You can too. I can SMELL it. You can too.

What would possibly have you think that what you can SEE, and what you can SMELL, isn't doing something BAD to our sky? It did bad things to the ground... It did bad things to the ocean. Why wouldn't it do bad things to the sky?

excon

I'd consider other models .Like I said ;the Constitution gives the Federal Government the power to create a national postal service. With proper management and innovatin, it should be a no brainer to make it a profitable franchise.

Our local post office looks like a mini Kmart (Walmart). Australia Post turns a profit for the government. The advantage when it comes to government agencies is that there is usually not much obstruction when the ruling party decides to implement change.There are of courses disadvantages as well.

Hello again,

I got another question for our right wing batty friends...

I KNOW you reject global warming... But, I have a feeling, that what you reject, is what you PERCEIVE to be the solution, which would be HIGHER taxes, MORE government, and an assault on fossil fuels.

But, if we could come up with a solution that LOWERED taxes, stimulated economic growth, and left the oil companies alone, would you THEN accept global warming as real?

excon

Ex

I don't know which camp you put me in but let's say that here I am a conservative. So a opinion

I don't reject climate change but I still feel the jury is out on the extent to which human activity contributes and the extent to which we can do anything about it short of shutting down our economies and even then I think the horse has bolted leaving the stable door open.

Renewables have been a failure in reducing green house emissions too little, too late, and in any case we are now at the tipping point where releases of methane from the tundra and permafrost will outstrip anything we do. If we stop all activity right now we will still experience changes for at least the next century and then maybe things would stabilise, big maybe. Our real hope is the Atlantic conveyor might shut down and return us to an ice age, then burning fossil fuels would be a necessity to counteract the change but the impact is goodbye North America and Europe and Northern Asia and most of the population

Clete , Ex uses the old terminology 'global warming ' (actually the original terms was “anthropomorphic global warming”, which attributed a direct link to human causation ) . As we know ,scientists began hedging their bets because there hasn't been any real warming in over 17 years,and scientists are puzzled by it. So they changed to the vernacular that you used... 'climate change' .

Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, the railroad engineer who for some reason chairs the IPCC's climate “science” panel, to his credit now admits that the skeptics who questioned the "settled science" have a point .


In Melbourne for a 24-hour visit to deliver a lecture for Deakin University, Dr Pachauri said that people had the right to question the science, whatever their motivations.

“'People have to question these things and science only thrives on the basis of questioning,' Dr Pachauri said.

“He said there was 'no doubt about it' that it was good for controversial issues to be 'thrashed out in the public arena'.

“Dr Pachauri's views contrast with arguments in Australia that views outside the orthodox position of approved climate scientists should be left unreported.

“Unlike in Britain, there has been little publicity in Australia given to recent acknowledgment by peak climate-science bodies in Britain and the US of what has been a 17-year pause in global warming. Britain's Met Office has revised down its forecast for a global temperature rise, predicting no further increase to 2017, which would extend the pause to 21 years.”
The Australian e-newspaper (http://theaustralian.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx)

But that was flawed too . As we know ,the only thing constant in the climate is change. So they changed it once again to “global climate disruption.”
Some scientists do not think the attribution to climate is adequate .
Extreme weather : Nature News & Comment (http://www.nature.com/news/extreme-weather-1.11428)

The emperor and his minions don't think that captures the essence of the "problem" .Tuesday , at the White House 'Organizing for Action', his perpetual campaign machine declared that there was a new name. Hence the issue shall be called “carbon pollution.” The phrase has also been used by the White House science adviser John Holdren.
It's a way to paint carbon dioxide as if it were black soot billowing out of industrial smokestacks. Carbon dioxide is actually what humans exhale, and it's food for plants.

OFA is now out in force promoting the emperor's new series of executive actions to force onto the United States his 'Climate Action Plan'... which will in essence be a full frontal assault on carbon based energy ;and of course include perks to the Goracle in the form of carbon tax/credits .

One day soon the wording will be changed again .Perhaps they can use my preferred one... 'Natural Climate Variations'.

Clete , Ex uses the old terminology 'global warming ' (actually the original terms was “anthropomorphic global warming”, which attributed a direct link to human causation ) . As we know ,scientists began hedging their bets because there hasn't been any real warming in over 17 years,and scientists are puzzled by it. So they changed to the vernacular that you used ...'climate change' .

Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, the railroad engineer who for some reason chairs the IPCC's climate “science” panel, to his credit now admits that the skeptics who questioned the "settled science" have a point .

The Australian e-newspaper (http://theaustralian.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx)

But that was flawed too . As we know ,the only thing constant in the climate is change. So they changed it once again to “global climate disruption.”
Some scientists do not think the attribution to climate is adequate .
Extreme weather : Nature News & Comment (http://www.nature.com/news/extreme-weather-1.11428)

The emperor and his minions don't think that captures the essence of the "problem" .Tuesday , at the White House 'Organizing for Action', his perpetual campaign machine declared that there was a new name. Hence the issue shall be called “carbon pollution.” The phrase has also been used by the White House science adviser John Holdren.
It's a way to paint carbon dioxide as if it were black soot billowing out of industrial smokestacks. Carbon dioxide is actually what humans exhale, and it's food for plants.

OFA is now out in force promoting the emperor's new series of executive actions to force onto the United States his 'Climate Action Plan' .....which will in essence be a full frontal assault on carbon based energy ;and of course include perks to the Goracle in the form of carbon tax/credits .

One day soon the wording will be changed again .Perhaps they can use my preferred one .......'Natural Climate Variations'.



Yes, but what people in the northern hemisphere forget is that the southern oceans are becoming a huge sink for carbon.

So is continental United States . We sequester huge amts of carbon.

Call it whatever you want because air, land, and water quality is the issue and what we do with our waste products. We may breathe out CO2, but we sure can't breathe it in and live very long.

Recapturing emissions from burning fossil fuels has advanced as have what we do with those bi products but we have a long way to go. So while you "drill,baby drill", clean up the mess you made extracting energy from the earth. That has yet to be addressed and you cannot ignore those consequences of our OOOPS, or what we do with those waste products.

We have to be honest with our science if we are to be effective and efficient with out technology. I submit as evidence the lingering effects of the Exxon Valdez, and the pollution of the Colorado river as evidence of the lousy job we have done so far. Those are but two examples of our failures, as there are MANY more and more to come.

Call it whatever, it exists, and man makes it exist.

Calling carbon dioxide a pollutant is dishonest and has nothing to do with the emission examples or the spills you cite.

It is a pollutant when man discharges it into the air, water, or land in excess of the naturally occurring levels.

A million trees can convert mans breathing but not a steel mill belching out bi product. Ask the Chinese. Even new technology yields a certain amount of pollutants far lower than previous plants and factories, and that's just scientific facts, and goes toward standards for emissions set by man, NOT nature.

I have argued with Speech many times about air quality, since where he lives there is less heavy industry than where I do. We have air quality reports daily as part of the weather report, and its different and less dangerous to old people and kids or people with health issues during mild to moderate temperatures than it is when it's 106 degrees for weeks on end. It's scientific fact the atmospheric conditions can weaken or strengthen ordinary, and natural storms.

How else can they predict and warn of hurricanes, tornadoes and storms, and track them? Or predict the conditions for super storm we are seeing more of?

Hello again,

I wasn't intending to CONVINCE our right wing friends of stuff they're just NOT going to believe.. I was just wondering if the perceived BIG GOVERNMENT solution was standing in the way.

But, I see that the science deniers are going to CONTINUE to deny.

excon

Hello again,

I wasn't intending to CONVINCE our right wing friends of stuff they're just NOT going to believe.. I was just wondering if the perceived BIG GOVERNMENT solution was standing in the way.

But, I see that the science deniers are going to CONTINUE to deny.

Excon

Your question was
But, if we could come up with a solution that LOWERED taxes, stimulated economic growth, and left the oil companies alone, would you THEN accept global warming as real?

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem to me .You need a lot more proof to convince me that 'Natural Climate Variations' are man made .

But, I see that the science deniers are going to CONTINUE to deny.

“Promoting science isn't just about providing resources -- it's also about protecting free and open inquiry. It's about letting scientists do their jobs, free from manipulation or coercion, and listening to what they tell us, even when it's inconvenient -- especially when it's inconvenient. It is about ensuring that scientific data is never distorted or concealed to serve a political agenda -- and that we make scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology.”- Barack Obama, March 8, 2009

I refer you to the distorted data by the AGW proponents as proof that the ones in favor of the science are the skeptics of the "settled science" ,and NOT the scientists who's jobs depend on the continued advancement of their flawed hypothesis.

Hello again, tom:

You need a lot more proof to convince me that 'Natural Climate Variations' are man made .Like I said, I'm NOT a scientist... But, when you can SEE and SMELL the garbage we throw into the sky, that's proof enough for me.

You know, I didn't NEED a scientist to tell me about the garbage we threw on the ground.. I could SEE it, and I could SMELL it. I also didn't need a scientist to tell me that the garbage we threw into the oceans were poisoning it. I LIVE on the coast, and I can SEE the ruination.

I don't know how you can SEE the same stuff I do, and tell me there nothing going on, unless there's some underlying ideology at work. I KNOW there's something going on. I am NOT blind.

I also see that you're SOOOO married to what you PERCEIVE the solution to be, that you're not even WILLING to entertain an alternative.. So, keep your heads in the sand, and grab your waterwings..

Excon

You need a lot more proof to convince me that 'Natural Climate Variations' are man made

Seeding clouds for rain, damming rivers for electricity, cutting forests, and dredging rivers for the benefit of man by man isn't natural. To say it has NO effect is presumptuous. But fact is Sandy and the Oklahoma should make you pay attention to who affects who the most.

Back to all those increased hurricanes and other scare-mongering? Howa botu some science?


The Met Office has admitted that global warming has stalled.

Officials say that by 2017, temperatures will not have risen significantly for nearly 20 years.

They concede that previous forecasts were inaccurate – and have come under fire for attempting to ‘bury bad news’ by publishing the revised data on Christmas Eve.

Read more: Global warming: Met Office releases revised global temperature predictions showing planet is NOT rapidly heating up | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2259012/Global-warming-Met-Office-releases-revised-global-temperature-predictions-showing-planet-NOT-rapidly-heating-up.html#ixzz2cQHiiGDY)

Speech some temperatures have not risen but there is a problem in the Artic which is seeing the release of methane gas as the permafrost melts. We must prepare for climate change to go beyond what we have experienced even though there has been response to emissions. I have long said I didn't believe what we were told but some change has occurred and will continue and we need to understand this in a rational way and not respond to local circumstance only. I think we fail to understand the impact of volcanic activity

Climate change, like weather, happens.

I think we fail to understand the impact of volcanic activity


Or solar activity ;or the retreat of the glaciers from the last ice age (which would explain the methane emissions. Organic material once existed in abundance where there is now frozen tundra. )

So Tom if I read you correctly you are saying everything is normal just part of a long cycle of ice ages and inter glacial periods. I wonder why the panic merchants (scientists) haven't thought of that? No grants in stating the obvious?
Tell it to these guys;
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/revealed-80cm-sea-rise-warning-20130819-2s7dt.html

OK I'll tell them. When you dig in some parts of the American mid west you uncover fossilized sea shells. That's because about 65-80 million years ago there was an inland sea that retreated as sea levels fell. My own pet hypothesis is that the natural state of the world is warm ;and that it's disruptions like asteroid strikes and volcanic activity that cools the planet . As an example ,in your neck of the world ,Krakatoa erupted in 1883, sending 25 cubic kilometres of ash into the air It also cooled the world's oceans and suppressed rises in sea level for decades afterwards.

ok I'll tell them. When you dig in some parts of the American mid west you uncover fossilized sea shells. That's because about 65-80 million years ago there was an inland sea that retreated as sea levels fell. My own pet hypothesis is that the natural state of the world is warm ;and that it's disruptions like asteroid strikes and volcanic activity that cools the planet . As an example ,in your neck of the world ,Krakatoa erupted in 1883, sending 25 cubic kilometres of ash into the air It also cooled the world's oceans and suppressed rises in sea level for decades afterwards.

Tom it is obvious we had a vast sea in the inland too, I have travelled across gibber plain, ancient sea bed. But what this tells us is that things change over time so I agree change is normal. It is not Krakotoa and similar we get those every century somewhere but the supervolcanoes in Yellowstone and Rotarua that change the climate for centuries, millennia and we are overdue for such an eruption. I am concerned that they might exist where we know nothing about them. We are five volcanoes away from nuclear winter at any time

2012 DVD Clip - Yellowstone Volcano Erupts - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUT8g8_Yd2Y)

2012 DVD Clip - Yellowstone Volcano Erupts - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUT8g8_Yd2Y)

Yes a pretty picture, minus the plane of course which could not fly in a pyroclastic flow but interestingly the makers of that movie forgot that eruptions on that scale give rise to world wide nuclear winter

Ted Cruz must really be getting under the media's skin. My goodness, back in college he played poker and lost and walked by the women's wing of the dorm (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/19/ted-cruz-at-princeton-creepy-sometimes-well-liked-and-exactly-the-same.html) in a robe. I could never, ever imagine a college dude doing anything like that.


When Craig Mazin first met his freshman roommate, Rafael Edward Cruz, he knew the 17-year-old Texan was not like other students at Princeton, or probably anywhere else for that matter.

"I remember very specifically that he had a book in Spanish and the title was Was Karl Marx a Satanist? And I thought, who is this person?" Mazin says of Ted Cruz. “Even in 1988, he was politically extreme in a way that was surprising to me.”

By Mazin’s account and those of multiple members of Princeton’s class of 1992, the Ted Cruz who arrived as a college freshman in 1988 was nearly identical to the man who arrived in Washington as a freshman Republican senator in 2013: intelligent, confident, fixated on conservative political theory, and deeply polarizing.

“It was my distinct impression that Ted had nothing to learn from anyone else,” said Erik Leitch, who lived in Butler College with Cruz. Leitch said he remembers Cruz as someone who wanted to argue over anything or nothing, just for the exercise of arguing. “The only point of Ted talking to you was to convince you of the rightness of his views."

In addition to Mazin and Leitch, several fellow classmates who asked that their names not be used described the young Cruz with words like “abrasive,” "intense," “strident,” “crank,” and “arrogant." Four independently offered the word “creepy,” with some pointing to Cruz’s habit of donning a paisley bathrobe and walking to the opposite end of their dorm’s hallway where the female students lived.

“I would end up fielding the [girls’] complaints: 'Could you please keep your roommate out of our hallway?'" Mazin says.

Cruz also angered a number of upperclassmen his freshman year when he joined in a regular poker game and quickly ran up $1,800 in debt to other students from his losses. Cruz’s spokeswoman, Catherine Frazier, said Cruz acknowledges playing in the poker games, which he now considers “foolish.”

“He went to his aunt, who worked at a bank in Dallas, and borrowed $1,800 from her, which he paid in cash and promptly quit the game,” Frazier told The Daily Beast, explaining that Cruz worked two jobs and made monthly payments to his aunt for the next two years to repay the debt.

OMG, he paid the debt? How irresponsible.

Here's the point of the hit piece...


"More than anyone I knew, Ted seemed to have arrived in college with a fully formed worldview,” Butler College colleague Erik Leitch said. “And what strikes me now, looking at him as an adult and hearing the things he's saying, it seems like nothing has changed. Four years of an Ivy League education, Harvard Law, and years of life experience have altered nothing."

While Cruz’s friends from the debate team foresaw a successful career in politics for Cruz, many of the Princeton alums offered that they were deeply troubled by the possibility of Cruz running for president, a notion that one, who did not want to be quoted speaking against a former classmate who is now a senator, called notion “horrifying.”

Craig Mazin said he knew some people might be afraid to speak in the press about a senator, but added of Cruz, “We should be afraid that someone like that has power.”

You mean someone who's smart, well spoken, conservative and believes in the constitution? A man who in could not be rehabilitated by the Ivy League? Ay, chihuahua!

And that's not the half of it, he tweaked the media by releasing his birth certificate (http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20130818-born-in-canada-ted-cruz-became-a-citizen-of-that-country-as-well-as-u.s..ece) and yes, he has dual U.S.-Canadian citizenship.Qeulle horreur!

Once again birtherism is cool (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/08/14/cnn_is_ted_cruz_eligible_to_run_for_president.html )?

Hello again, Steve:

We BOTH want him to get the nomination, don't we?

excon

Hello again, Steve:

We BOTH want him to get the nomination, don't we?

excon

I'm not picking anyone yet, but I'm loving the show so far. There's nothing to worry about right, what's to fear about a one term senator who's done nothing possibly being the leader of the country?

The bar has been set . Scott Brown is hangin in Iowa too.

Hello again,

So, if Obama fails because he's a rookie, you're going to bring in your own rookie... THAT'S a good plan..

excon

Yeah bring in your rookie!!

Michael Jordon was a rookie once...

And some rookies like Obama choke when the spotlight hits them and they have to perform rather than talk.

Rookie ? The emperor didn't stay in the league long enough to qualify as a rookie.

rookie ? the emperor didn't stay in the league long enough to qualify as a rookie.

True... all he did was talk about playing ball... he never actually played a game that mattered. And it shows.

Tom it is obvious we had a vast sea in the inland too, I have travelled across gibber plain, ancient sea bed. But what this tells us is that things change over time so I agree change is normal. It is not Krakotoa and similar we get those every century somewhere but the supervolcanoes in Yellowstone and Rotarua that change the climate for centuries, millennia and we are overdue for such an eruption. I am concerned that they might exist where we know nothing about them. We are five volcanoes away from nuclear winter at any time

or it could be heat from below .


The Greenland ice sheet is melting from below, caused by a high heat flow from the mantle into the lithosphere. This influence is very variable spatially and has its origin in an exceptionally thin lithosphere. Consequently, there is an increased heat flow from the mantle and a complex interplay between this geothermal heating and the Greenland ice sheet. The international research initiative IceGeoHeat led by the GFZ German Research Centre for Geosciences establishes in the current online issue of Nature Geoscience (Vol 6, August 11, 2013) that this effect cannot be neglected when modeling the ice sheet as part of a climate study.

Heat flow from Earth's mantle contributes to Greenland ice melting (http://phys.org/news/2013-08-earth-mantle-contributes-greenland-ice.html)

Tom I have long said that CO2 is not the sole contributor in fact human activity only accounts for about 20%, irrespective of what the wankers at the UN think, this is why temperature rises have flattened and their models don't work, but I don't subscribe entirely to the heat from below theory, where was all this heat during the ice ages. We need to get back to planting trees not cutting them down and stop thinking about them as a sustainable resource