In response to a very un-Christian idiot in Florida, the Mullahs in Afghanistan have advised turning the other cheek... er, stirring the masses to violence (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/world/asia/03afghanistan.xml).

Thus far, only 20 killed.

Is this suppose to be surprising? When the people act like drones and are so uneducated that they can't see the nose on their face what do you expect. Maybe they should light up korans all around the city and as they come to protest shoot them and put them out of their misery.

At the risk of being politically incorrect, dad... LOL.

Do you think it is posible someone over there can take that idiot preacher out behind the church and teach him some manners, you don't throw petrol on a fire. We all know the quoran is crap but it does no good to stir up the Muslims

Religion of peace at war again Hello again, Steve:

Again?? AGAIN?? Actually we invaded THEIR country. But, you bring up an interesting dichotomy. We say we're not at war with Islam, but if you were them, as uneducated as dad says they are, when this jerk off burns a Koran, wouldn't YOU think they are making war on your religion?? You WOULD, and you WOULD respond.

Then you have the temerity to slam them for their religion of "peace". What the Afghans did, SHOULD have been, and WAS expected. In my view, the jerk off pastor should be arrested for the deaths HE caused in Afghanistan. You CAN'T yell fire in a crowded theater. That's what he did. ARREST THE BASTARD!

excon

Do you think it is posible someone over there can take that idiot preacher out behind the church and teach him some manners, you don't throw petrol on a fire. We all know the quoran is crap but it does no good to stir up the Muslims

That will never happen so long as we have all the other crap to deal with like this :

Veterans outrage as grave protests linger (http://www.huliq.com/10282/veterans-outrage-grave-protests-linger)

Do you think it is posible someone over there can take that idiot preacher out behind the church and teach him some manners, you don't throw petrol on a fire. We all know the quoran is crap but it does no good to stir up the Muslims

I know it's strange to you, Clete, but he has the right to be an idiot. What's the mullah's excuse?

We all know the quoran is crap Hello again, clete:

No, WE don't! It's no more crap than the stupid book YOU worship. In fact, your book is FULL of killing and maiming... I haven't read it for a while, but doesn't it say stuff like someone who doesn't honor their mother and father SHOULD BE KILLED?? I think it DOES.

excon

We say we're not at war with Islam, but if you were them, as uneducated as dad says they are, when this jerk off burns a Koran, wouldn't YOU think they are making war on your religion?? You WOULD, and you WOULD respond.

Dude, people have been burning bibles and making war against my religion for a long time. Thus far I haven't incited any violence or killed anyone over it... which along with the fact that Christians aren't making human bombs of 12 year olds, flying planes into skyscrapers or chanting "death to Iran" in the name of Jesus, is why I have the temerity to slam them for their "religion of peace."


You CAN'T yell fire in a crowded theater. That's what he did.

No, he provoked unnecessarily and he's an idiot, but our constitution gives him and those Phelps folks the right to be idiots. Yelling fire in a crowded theater would be burning the koran in Afghanistan, which if he really had any convictions is what he'd do.

Hello again, Steve:

Again???? AGAIN???? Actually we invaded THEIR country. But, you bring up an interesting dichotomy. We say we're not at war with Islam, but if you were them, as uneducated as dad says they are, when this jerk off burns a Koran, wouldn't YOU think they are making war on your religion??? You WOULD, and you WOULD respond.

Then you have the temerity to slam them for their religion of "peace". What the Afghans did, SHOULD have been, and WAS expected. In my view, the jerk off pastor should be arrested for the deaths HE caused in Afghanistan. You CAN'T yell fire in a crowded theater. That's what he did. ARREST THE BASTARD!

excon

While I agree in part with your statement. Lets look at the fact here. The book burning took place 2 weeks ago. And just now they are getting around to responding to it? Its nothing like a crowded theater.

I don't agree with the inciteful nature of the book burning itself. But I do believe in calling a spade a spade. Nazism was at its heart a religion albeit an occult one in nature. So keeping quiet about a situation doesn't always aide in its eradication. That being said I believe we should point out the shortcomings when it comes to the mixed statement of Islam. In today's times there is no reason for religions not to live in coexistance and to fight out the ideoligy through peaceful means of education. But that is not the islamic way. In times of old that area of the world was a great wonder and education. Many roots in science and astronomy have ties directly to that area and those of writing. Its not that we are dealing with dumb people we are dealing with a society of peoples that have been dumbed down through the ages by a certain religion. Its high time for a wake up and I believe that is why we are seeing such an upsurge at this time. But in reality they did attatck a school for women during the protest. They need to figure out how to raise the bar and everyone will benefit from it. This may only be a spark that starts a huge fire.

Dude, people have been burning bibles and making war against my religion for a long time.... Yelling fire in a crowded theater would be burning the koran in Afghanistan, which if he really had any convictions is what he'd do.Hello again, Steve:

So, you AGREE that burning your religious book IS an act of war on your religion. I figured as much.

Besides, your legal analysis is faulty. You cannot yell FIRE in a crowded theater, because doing so WILL cause unnecessary death. The physical distance between the deaths that occurred, and the speech that caused it, is irrelevant.

Arrest that BASTARD!

excon

Ex, your analogy is faulty. He didn't yell fire, he provoked, there was no incitement of panic. Muslims had a choice with a long to think about it before deciding on their response. They chose violence and death against others that had nothing to do with Jones.

ex, your analogy is faulty. He didn't yell fire, he provoked, there was no incitement of panic.Hello again, Steve:

My friend, you should stick to politics and baseball, and leave the law to me. The term "yelling fire" is a metaphor. In this country it's illegal to utter ANY speech that causes death. Panic and incitement are NOT required.

excon

Muslims had a choice with a long to think about it before deciding on their response. They chose violence and death against others that had nothing to do with Jones.Hello again, Steve:

I don't know if you edited or I missed it, but in any case, what you say above would be an EXCELLENT defense in his murder trial - OK, his manslaughter trial.

excon

I understand metaphors, ex, why do you guys keep trying to tell I don't understand? I don't understand fantasy baseball yet, and I made that clear, but I understand metaphors.

From Holmes' opinion: The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.

As far as I know, Jones, moron that he may be, did not incite panic or create an unconstitutional clear and present danger. And trust me, I don't condone what he did and don't like the fact that he'll be here campaigning for our own moron that wants to be mayor... our mayoral race is right out of an SNL skit but that's another story. But, there is only one religion responding to every perceived insult with violence, murder and mayhem, you want to excuse them still?

Hello again, Steve:

In MY opinion, you can't say to a crowd that X needs to be killed - even if X's eventual killer had lots of time to consider his actions. Plus, speaking those words didn't create a present danger, yet if those words are acted upon, the speaker WILL be guilty of a crime.

Was O'Reilly guilty because he called Dr. Tiller a baby killer? No. If he said Tiller should be SHOT, you betcha.

Who is this Holmes guy, anyway?

excon

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. the man that wrote the majority opinion where that phrase was made famous.

I didn't know Jones called for X to be killed, did he?

I find it strange Ex if someone attacks you you go ape and try to bomb them out of existence but let one of you give offence to a large part of the world's population you say he has a right to do so. What you are telling me is you all think you have a right to behave like idiots. Only an idiot thinks they have a right to behave like an idiot. Burning the Quoran wasn't free speech, your constitution doesn't give him the right to defile someoneelse's religion, to be deliberately provocative. That is an idiot's view of what it says.

but let one of you give offence to a large part of the world's population you say he has a right to do so. Hello clete:

I'm not quite sure what you're smoking, but I didn't say any of that.

excon

We have a really good line of Sifton Bush over here ex highly aromatic

so Ex ;would burning the American flag be the equivalent of the incitement provocation if someone went in wild rampage over the burning ?

As I recall ,that was a legitimate expression of 1st amendment rights.

Would the artist who soaked the Christian cross in urine get arrested for inciting me to rage ? As I recall I was forced to become that artist's patron with my tax dollars.

Don't ask ex complex questions he just knows he has rights or is that wrongs

This LA Art exhibit has paintings in the theme 'Jesus is coming'. I'll piont out that one of them has a depiction of Sarah Palin being crucified .Another one has Jesus as a chimp. Another one has Jesus dressed in a women's bathing suit .
If Christians went into an uncontrollable killing rage ,should the artists be arrested ? How about if some artists drew cartoons of Mohammed ,and Muslims across the ummah went into a murderous rage. Should those artists get arrested ?
http://therandr.org/content/jesus-coming

Tom you know for the most part Muslims are uneducated rabble, so they are easily maniplated by fanatics. Muslims riot over depictions of Mudhutmad because they know they have been insulted. In The west Jesus long ago gave us a sanction to say whatever we wanted to about him, but mudhutmad did not give us the same dispensation. God does not need to be defended and nor do his true prophets

Hello clete:

Your bigotry is showing, and it AIN'T purty. Our wars over there LOOK like we ARE at war with Islam... Your posts confirm it.

excon

Hello clete:

Your bigotry is showing, and it AIN'T purty. Our wars over there LOOK like we ARE at war with Islam... Your posts confirm it.

excon

Lets be honest here. Its not really a war it has turned into a police action. You and I both know the difference. The large part to overcome is the inbrededness of ideoligy that has existed. It's a sad state of affairs. We saw the same thing in the soviet union with the oppression of its politics. The world is in flux. Information and choices are the key to our future.

Hello again, dad:

If you were refuting my post about clete's bigotry, and what it LOOKS like, I couldn't tell.

excon

Hello again, dad:

If you were refuting my post about clete's bigotry, and what it LOOKS like, I couldn't tell.

excon

No, not refuting your post to him. Just the wording that keeps being thrown around. When I think of war I think of a military that goes in and breaks things with a plan to win. If your being shot at you get to shoot back. But in this case our guys and gals have their hands tied and can't do what they have been trained to do. Im getting tired of that part. Its not a war. It's a police action that is taking place and Im not happy with what the idiots in Washington are trying to do to our respected military personel.

Ex Stating the facts is not bigotary. Bigotary is that dill in Florida who burnt the Quoran because he disagreed with it. I disagree with it too but I'm not holding a burning anytime soon. Seems to me Ex you should look closer to home for your bigots

Bigotry is that 'Jesus is coming' exhibit.

Ex Stating the facts is not bigotary. Bigotary is that dill in Florida who burnt the Quoran because he disagreed with it. I disagree with it too...

We should make it very clear to " Rev " Jones that he is a complete un-Christian scum bag . Not only has he incited these murderous protests ,but he has put our bravest in additional needless harms way. Just because I think he has the right to burn the Koran doesn't mean in any way I support his actions.

Personally... burning a pile of paper has done more to prove Islam is the religion of hate and intolerance than every word that has tried to claim otherwise up to this point.

And nobody has proven that more effectively until now.

And it shows how many in Afghanistan aren't deserving of freedom. Wonder how many of them have burned bibles and/or Christians in the recent past?

The Koran is no more deserving of protection than the Bible or the American Flag. PERIOD. End of story.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the guy. But he has a set of balls that nobody in the PC movement has.

If I was president... I would publicly announce the killing of Christians, Destruction of Churches or desecration of Bibles will be met with the very same reaction...

Respect is earned... not given out freely. When Tolerance is shown to Christians and Jews by Muslims universally in all Muslim majority nations... THEN, and only then would would I condemn that Reverend.

I'm NOT a bible thumper... but I'm sick and tired of Muslims through threats and violence demanding respect they do not show others.

What do you expect from people that allow this and want to bring it to the world.

Bangladeshi girl, 14, dies after receiving 100 lashes | World news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/bangladeshi-girl-100-lashes)

The real question here is why would Krazy Karzai bring attention to the Koran burning ?

This burning happened weeks ago. Thurs. Karzai made a speech echoing Excon's thought that Jones should be arrested .The mullahs picked up the theme during Friday's prayers ,and that is when the rioting commenced.
It all seems very staged to me ;nothing like this spontaneous outrage that it is being depicted as.

Jones is an idiot who was rightfully being ignored . But it is not he who is responsible for the deaths.

The real question here is why would Krazy Karzai bring attention to the Koran burning ? Hello again, tom:

As always, you ask the RIGHT questions. First off, I don't think Karzai is our friend, and I think we should sh*t can him now, rather than later...

It's becoming clear what Jones did. (By the way, I don't think he ought to be arrested anymore. What? You think you're the only ones whose leg jerks?) He palled up with Al Jazera, and the burning was broadcast LIVE in Afghanistan.

From the Afghani's standpoint, this was a MAJOR American church that CONFIRMED America's war on Islam.. From that perspective, it's a little more understandable. Yeah, they take their book pretty seriously. Do I think they're NUTS for doing so?? I DO... But, I think you guys are NUTS for taking YOUR book so seriously too.

excon

Perhaps ,but I would have to be mideval to go into an uncontrollable rage over the many provocations here against Christianity .
Any comic who needs a cheap laugh invokes nuns or Catholic priests. We pay our artists with tax dollars to mock Christianity in the most grotesque and disgusting ways.
Your attempt at moral equivalence doesn't work.

Perhaps ,but I would have to be mideval to go into an uncontrollable rage over the many provocations here against Christianity .

Your attempt at moral equivalence doesn't work.Hello again, tom:

If you want EQUIVALENCE, let's get EQUIVALENT. Using IT's excellent logic, if YOUR country had been invaded, and YOUR country was occupied, and YOUR civilians are getting killed, and you are SOOO uneducated that you have no idea WHY they're there, other than your Imam telling you that America is at war with Islam.

Certainly, there's PLENTY of video evidence PROVING their point, from Abu Grahib, to rendition, to Gitmo, to the RECENT stryker killers, to torture, and finally, to this Jones turkey.

So, given that you're a good Christian man, I believe you WOULD rage against an enemy that DID to you, what we are doing to them.

excon

Put the blame where it belongs :to the leaders like Karzai,the clerics ,the politicians in the greater AfPakia who see Afghanistan as a pawn in the greater game of who dominates the Indus and Hindu Kush .Those are ones manipulating them. Certainly they know why the US is there .

Exactly, this was exactly as you said, staged. I said in the OP the Mullahs stirred this up... they know exactly what they're doing.

Exactly, this was exactly as you said, staged. I said in the OP the Mullahs stirred this up...they know exactly what they're doing.Hello again, Steve:

Well then... If we can't arrest Jones for his SPEECH, maybe we can arrest him for terrorism. Not only did he act in consort with terrorists, HE was the guy who DID the STAGING you refer to.

The last few posts appear to direct the blame to where it SHOULD be directed. I'll take that as a backhanded apology for wrongly blaming the religion.

excon

I'm not the one that keeps insisting Islam is a "religion of peace." I do blame Jones for provoking Muslims and giving my faith a black eye in the process. But I blame the Mullahs for stirring the pot leading to murder and destruction... much of which I'm sure was Muslim on Muslim violence. I doubt if any Baptist shopkeepers stores were burned down.

I do blame Jones for provoking Muslims and giving my faith a black eye in the process.Hello again, Steve:

I'm a strange fellow, I guess. I don't blame Christians because you've got a few kooks, any more than I blame Islam for its kooks.

excon

Dude, I said "I blame the Mullahs for stirring the pot leading to murder and destruction." I didn't indict all of Islam.

I agree with you but I have to say these fellows couldn't exist as they do without the support of the masses. Ex needs to realise that in all religions the power exists with the leadership because the people accept them, not the other way around

Nope . Either they have lived that way ,indoctrinated for generations, ignorant of any other way ;or they are whipped into submission and live in terror under the jack-boot.

Don't be a fool Tom if people can realise a secular leader is a despot they can realise the same about a religious leader, it just takes a little longer. Eventually Iran will realise their religious leaders are despots and the same is true of the rest of Islam

Mark Steyn in a must read:


A Difference of Degree (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/263716/difference-degree-mark-steyn)
April 2, 2011 10:47 A.M.
By Mark Steyn

Seems like old times. The great columnist Andrew Bolt made some mildly pointed observations about prominent and strikingly pasty-faced Australians choosing to identify as “aborigines”, and found himself hauled into court by the thought police (http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/bolt-on-trial-for-heresy-against-high-church-of-political-correctness-20110331-1cn9s.html):


I never thought I’d have an opportunity to see a real-life heresy trial in 21st-century Australia, but that’s exactly what’s been going on this week in Melbourne’s Federal Court.

Herald Sun columnist Andrew Bolt has been dragged before a judge and accused of thought crimes against the high church of political correctness. He’s being prosecuted and persecuted for the lese-majesty of challenging the cult of victimhood that dominates racial discourse in Australia.

The plaintiffs in this case claim to be aggrieved by several Bolt newspaper columns that cast doubt upon the authenticity of their Aboriginality. And while I’m sure their feelings of umbrage are quite genuine, I’m equally certain they are ultimately irrelevant.

But they’re not. In Canada, I too committed the crime of “offending” certain approved identity groups. And there is no defense to that: Truth, facts, evidence are all irrelevant. If someone’s “offended”, that’s that: You’re guilty. And increasingly, in Canada, Australia, Britain, the Netherlands, France, Austria, Scandinavia, the human right not to be offended trumps all.

This is disastrous. It puts free societies on the same continuum as the ululating savages of Mazar e-Sharif. They were also “offended” – by some no-name pastor on the other side of the planet burning a book. The Taliban’s idea of due process is less protracted than the Australians’, but operates on the same basic principle – that the right not to be offended is sacred.

As some of us said over the free-speech wars in Canada, if a multicultural society is not to descend from soft totalitarianism into naked thuggery, its citizens need to grow thicker skins: We need not sensitivity training, but insensitivity training. Instead, the Euro-Aussie-Canadian model thinks things will all work out if only we tiptoe ever more daintily on multiculti eggshells. Or as The Daily Caller’s Mike Riggs tweets:


What are you willing to stop doing to avoid offending violent religious zealots?

What core liberties are you willing to trade for a quiet life? Because however much of the baggage you toss out the balloon, it will never be enough. Short of punitive military measures we’re not willing to take, there’s not a lot we can do about baying Afghan mobs hot for decapitating people because someone expressed an opinion. But we could at least put some clear blue water between our legal inheritance and theirs by not dragging people into Australian, Dutch, Austrian and Danish courts for the same “crime”.

PS “Death To America, Death To Obama.” (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2011/04/028740.php) As Powerline remarks, that middle name may not be quite as magical as the President believes.

Mark Steyn in a must read:

That's a good article... I'm offended by Pushy Muslims... as well as Jehovah witnesses and Welfare recipients... I wonder if I can except my entitled justice anytime soon. Or we can expect more of the type of justice that one expects in a Muslim majority nation where unless you are a Muslim then you are guilty of NOT being one and can expect whatever they decide to dish out.

And its already clear... if you practice Celibrating Christmas you are persecuted... and if you burn a Bible or a flag... its celebrated as your right... but if you burn a Koran, your life is threatened and you are badmouthed in the press by the lefties.

Well speechless you are digging in a can of worms. You speak about Victoria, they have some strange laws there and local Pastor Danny Niliah fell foul of them and there was a well cited long running court case over the vilification of muslims because the pastor spoke of his personal experiences in India and Saudi Arabia, As to aboriginals in various parts of the world, they need to be protected from the great big world. In Australia an aboriginal is any person who declares himself to be an aboriginal, not something you would do without reason as it places you on the bottom rung of society, and so any challenge to that status would be seen as a personal attack

As if what has been already said is not enough the vilification fight in Victoria is about to get a new leg
MP Bernie Finn lands the Liberal Party in race row | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/national/mp-lands-libs-in-hot-water/story-e6frfkvr-1226034894492)

As to aboriginals in various parts of the world, they need to be protected from the great big world.

Got to love the benevolence of the Aussie.

Well it's true Tom and it is exactly what we were doing long ago when we declared them to be fauna, protected along with the Koalas and the Emus. It sure beats raising an army and killing them for their land, which I hear is the solution employed on the other side of the big pond. However the do gooders also from a similar place said you can't do that and so what do we have now. A subculture of disadvantage and grief because they can't fit those aspirations. They die earlier because they smoke and drink more and we are somehow supposed to infringe their liberty to do so, so that we can raise their life expectancy and impose our life style and life expectancy upon them. It is like whistling the wind so yes we are benevolent but it changes nothing

They die earlier because they smoke and drink more and we are somehow supposed to infringe their liberty to do so, so that we can raise their life expectancy and impose our life style and life expectancy upon them.

They just need casinos.

Just what Australia needs is more gambling. You have just demonstrated how american solutions are not needed here because you have no understanding of our society.

Tom they don't know how to run anything just spend. All they would do is put their dole cheques through the slots as they do now, just another excuse to drink, smoke, etc and sit on their blessed native rights. We have what might be called casinos over there in every town. We call them clubs, they are highly organised local businesses

Tom they don't know how to run anything just spend. All they would do is put their dole cheques thru the slots as they do now, just another excuse to drink, smoke, etc and sit on their blessed native rights.

Sounds a lot like what happens on the reservations here.

Yes smoothy pretty much. Human nature is the same everywhere

just what Australia needs is more gambling. You have just demonstrated how american solutions are not needed here because you have no understanding of our society.

You just demonstrated you have no sense of humor. I don't give a rat's you know what how you solve your societal ills, but opposition to the thought police and the right not to be offended isn't a uniquely American value.

I didn't know you had opposition to the thought police over there, is it an inderground movement?

I didn't know you had opposition to the thought police over there, is it an inderground movement?

No, it's very public (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/msnbc-drops-olberman-matthews-258037-3.html#post2576811). In fact, Steyn is still addressing the issue (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/264002/right-offend-mark-steyn).


The Right to Offend
By Mark Steyn

When I wrote over the weekend about the trial of Australia’s most prominent columnist for expressing his opinions, I did not expect it to be quite so immediately relevant to the United States. But perhaps what’s most disturbing about Lindsey Graham’s dismal defense of his inclinations to censorship is the lack of even the slightest attempt to underpin his position with any kind of principle. He all but literally wraps himself in the flag, and, once you pry him out of the folds of Old Glory, what you’re left with is a member of the governing class far too comfortable with the idea that he and his colleagues should determine the bounds of public discourse.

I’m sick of that. I’m sick of it in Canada, sick of it in Britain, in Australia, in Europe, and I’m now sick of it in America — in part because, as Senator Graham has demonstrated in his fatuous defense, guys like him aren’t smart enough to set the rules for what the rest of us are allowed to think. In his column in The Australian, James Allan usefully reminds us of what it’s like to live in a world where Grahamesque types presume to regulate individual expression in the cause of identity-group harmony. I like his conclusion:


The only valuable sort of freedom of speech is the sort that allows people to do or to say what others find wrong-headed, offensive, distasteful and intolerant.

Being free to say and do what everyone else wants you to say and do is not a liberty or freedom you will ever have to fight for; it will make little difference to anything . . .

I think any good, well-functioning democracy requires its citizens to man up and grow a thick skin. If you’re offended, tell us why the speaker is wrong. Don’t ask for a court-ordered apology and some two-bit declaration.

I’ll take my chances with blowhard pastors, drearily “transgressive” artists, and flag-burning provocateurs. I’m far more worried about a blundering clod like Graham presuming to protect us from them.

in part because, as Senator Graham has demonstrated in his fatuous defense, guys like him aren't smart enough to set the rules for what the rest of us are allowed to think.

That's an understatement . Graham is this side of a turnip. That's the same clod who complained about the 'loud people' during the immigration debate .

Which side is that, the underside? Either way, he's still a turnip.

Steyn is still addressing the issue


he and his colleagues should determine the bounds of public discourse.

What ever might be happenning in the big wide world I know no one here who is setting the limits of public discourse, it is just that we have moved on on certain subjects but undoubtedly will revisit them as the opportunity presents, in fact it has been a fairly dull discourse on all fronts recently with a lot or wrangling on an unnecessary carbon tax as the featured debate in local political circles.
Libya ~ where's that;
Muslims ~ yes, we have them here too but they are laying low;
Disasters ~ had an earthquake the other day, still recovering from the rest;
Elections ~ chucked out a useless state government on its ear