Game changer . A whole Republican leaning town did not have their results reported to the press yesterday.
When we leftyesterday there was a deadlock in the State Supreme Court election between Republican incumbent Justice David Prosser ,rival of Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson, and challenger and crony of Abrahamson , JoAnne Kloppenburg

Kloppenburg hung onto a razor thin lead in the race ,almost guaranteeing weeks of a costly recount . But today is another day.

Today county clerks around Wisconsin reviewed the votes in the race and several thousand votes that favor Prosser went uncounted yesterday. This is breaking news but what I hear is that it is a game decider . A whole township (Brookfield) was not counted and as many as 7500 votes were not counted in this Republican city.

Game-Changer In Wisconsin - Hotline On Call (http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/04/gamechanger-in.php)

A press conference was just held ,and according to the Milwaulkee Sentinel ,Prosser did indeed pick up 7,582 votes.
Prosser picks up 7,582 votes in Waukesha County - JSOnline (http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/119424759.html)

Hello again, tom:

Newly found, huh? Right... Who found 'em. The Koch brothers? Okee, doakee.

excon

Game changer . A whole Republican leaning town did not have their results reported to the press yesterday.
When we leftyesterday there was a deadlock in the State Supreme Court election between Republican incumbent Justice David Prosser ,rival of Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson, ,and challenger and crony of Abrahamson , JoAnne Kloppenburg

Kloppenburg hung onto a razor thin lead in the race ,almost guaranteeing weeks of a costly recount . But today is another day.

Today county clerks around Wisconsin reviewed the votes in the race and several thousand votes that favor Prosser went uncounted yesterday. This is breaking news but what I hear is that it is a game decider . A whole township (Brookfield) was not counted and as many as 7500 votes were not counted in this Republican city.

Game-Changer In Wisconsin - Hotline On Call (http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/04/gamechanger-in.php)

A press conference was just held ,and according to the Milwaulkee Sentinel ,Prosser did indeed pick up 7,582 votes.
Prosser picks up 7,582 votes in Waukesha County - JSOnline (http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/119424759.html)

That's standard operating procedure in the DNC "How to steal an election" handbook. It comes before "Ballot stuffing if you are short votes".

Interesting electoral system

Hello again, tom:

Newly found, huh? Right... Who found 'em. The Koch brothers? Okee, doakee.

Excon

I'm sure that will be the Dem spin.
The count at this time is unofficial and given the nature of the error almost certainly to be challenged. The county clerk in question ,Kathy Nickolaus,"found " 14,315 votes . Of those, Justice David Prosser had an advantage of 7,582 .These votes are in fact recorded votes ,but she had miscounted due to some kind of computer error.
Nickolaus explained that she had failed to save data in her computer and consequently report votes cast in the city of Brookfield. Smaller discrepancies turned up in two other communities.
Nation & World | Clerk's error turns Wisconsin high-court race around | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014715459_wisconsin08.html)
The vote count was also confirmed by the Democrat representative of the Board of Canvassers ,so it appears to be a legitimate mistake by someone who probably should be doing something else for a living .

At the news conference with Nickolaus, Ramona Kitzinger, the Democrat on the Waukesha County Board of Canvassers, said: "We went over everything and made sure all the numbers jibed up and they did."

As a Democrat, she said, "I'm not going to stand here and tell you something that's not true."


These results will most likely stand .All this really means is that the Dems will shift focus on the recall efforts.

That's standard operating procedure in the DNC "How to steal an election" handbook. It comes before "Ballot stuffing if you are short votes".

Not really . The Dem playbook has them found in the trunk of someone's car.
The truth is that there was a report about missing returns before they were found. So this appears to be a legitimate mistake by Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus .
The smears have already started . Her life is going to be hell for a while.

This was as they say, "human error." It happens. Unfortunately for Democrats it was not in their favor as they readily admit (http://www.jsonline.com/general/37714089.html?bcpid=8725036001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAGgk8Us~,dLqgruaIT6rTqyyEHVUdSjL5KQ 9h61sv&bctid=895391546001) (jump to about 13:30 for the big moment).

This was as they say, "human error." Hello again, Steve:

Human error, huh?? I understand - Republicans wouldn't cheat. Oh, yeah - the county clerks office is a PARTISAN office. I'll bet you can GUESS which party Kathy Nickolaus belongs to.

Didja know that an audit of Nickolaus’ handling of the 2010 election found that she needed to take steps to improve security and backup procedures, like stop sharing passwords. The audit was requested after the county’s director of administration said Nickolaus had been uncooperative with attempts to have county experts review her systems and confirm backups were in place.

Didja know that Nickolaus was given immunity from prosecution in a 2002 criminal investigation into illegal activity by members of the assembly Republican Caucus. She worked for 13 years as a data analyst and computer specialist for the caucus.

Didhja know that she resigned from her state job in 2002 just before launching her county clerk campaign.

Curiouser and curiouser...

excon

At the news conference with Nickolaus, Ramona Kitzinger, the Democrat on the Waukesha County Board of Canvassers, said: "We went over everything and made sure all the numbers jibed up and they did."

As a Democrat, she said, "I'm not going to stand here and tell you something that's not true."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014715459_wisconsin08.html

At least there weren't precincts that had more votes than it had legal residents... much less legal registered voters... Unlike Minnesota's vote fraud the Democrats committed and used their liberal justice buddies to blow off to get Al Franken into office.

UM, did you watch the video at the 13:30 mark? It was a Democrat canvasser that verified the results in Prosser's favor with no objections.

Hello again, Steve:

Um, the video didn't show up.

excon

Um. you have to follow the link I gave in the post (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/choice-wisconsin-556077-26.html#post2766309), it ain't Youtube.

it ain't Youtube.Hello again, Steve:

Oh.

excon

Btw, I noticed today I'm in 2nd. May not be for long but I'll take it.

Hello again, Steve:

Yup. You're an up and comer.

excon

Smells like conservative victory (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5huBUBx-hwmCRV8_OqQvvBp2PI-lw?docId=b86d19d6e93746949f8cb6bfa107f19f) in Wisconsin.

It isn't over until Kloppenburg says it's over . I have to wonder why her concession speech has not come as quickly as her victory speech .

Yeah, she declared victory with a 204 vote lead but won't concede a margin of 7,316. Hey, it worked for Franken, she'll just have to come up with 10 times the extra votes as he did.

John Fund wrote that we really have to do something to fix this endless cycle of disputed elections before 2012 .
John Fund: Wisconsin's Election Snafu Is a National Wake-Up Call - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703551304576260653672631890.html)

Kloppenburg demanded her recount even though she's down 7000 votes. Watch her answer when a reporter asks her, “do you still feel that you are the winner of the election?” The question is at about 1:40. Gold I tell you, pure gold in that answer.

5oee6qB55bQ

Want to bet a democrat "FINDS" about 8,000 ballots "surprisingly democrat" in their car trunk?

Want to bet a democrat "FINDS" about 8,000 ballots "surprisingly democrat" in their car trunk?

It must be wonderful to live in a democracy

It must be wonderful to live in a democracyDemocracy is great... its the Democrats that don't much believe in democracy.

Hello again,

The battle has shifted once again to the recall's... I think several Republican senators are going to bite the dust...

excon

Is that why democrats have gotten enough signatures for a recall vote on 6 republicans, LAWFULLY I might add, while the republicans are getting folks drunk to sign the recall petition for the democrats who fled the state??

And still haven't got enough.

Is that why democrats have gotten enough signatures for a recall vote on 6 republicans, LAWFULLY I might add, while the republicans are getting folks drunk to sign the recall petition for the democrats who fled the state???

And still haven't got enough.

Getting folks drunk? Haven't heard that, but I do know the unions are still there behind those LAWFUL signatures.

Its LOCAL unions doing the heavy lifting of signatures for the recall petition. Both Republicans, and Democrats, old, and young working against the Governor, and his far reaching plot to corporatize Wisconsin. The same as they are doing in Michigan, and Ohio.

We wouldn't even have this issue if he had stuck with doing his job, and not promoting his agenda.

Municipal League discusses Snyder's plan for Michigan | detnews.com | The Detroit News (http://detnews.com/article/20110406/POLITICS02/104060406/Municipal-League-discusses-Snyder-s-plan-for-Michigan)


Doug Rothwell, president and CEO of Business Leaders for Michigan, and Charlie Owens, Michigan state director of the National Federation of Independent Business, defended Snyder's plan for a $1.8 billion tax cut to businesses to be paid for with cuts in revenue sharing to municipalities, as well as a new pension tax and elimination of most personal and business tax credits including the Earned Income Tax Credit for the working poor

Sound familiar? If municipalities cannot meet his new budget benchmarks after the cuts, he comes in and appoints a new manager that can, and cancels the mayors, and city counsels (eliminate local elected government), now in the past these corporate guys have worked with elected government, NOT in place of it.

Now stop and think how they will balance local budgets, with less money coming in?? Let me know!!

LT Guv Gain Newsome of California recently went to Texas ;a state he despises ;to find out why jobs are leaving California to Texas.
Capitol Journal: Gavin Newsom treks to Texas to talk jobs - Los Angeles Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/21/local/la-me-cap-texas-20110421)
Texas has added 165,000 jobs during the last three years.California has lost 1.2 million. California's jobless rate is 12%... 8% in Texas.

But it's no secret why. Taxes are lower for business.
There is neither 'progressive' income tax system nor a large tax burden.There is less red tape regulations ,and there is an overall better business environment .
Texas has a budget deficit. But they will grow the economy out of it without raising taxes.

Oh yeah ;and Texas has a generally low obligation to public service employee entitlements.

Its LOCAL unions doing the heavy lifting of signatures for the recall petition. Both Republicans, and Democrats, old, and young working against the Governor, and his far reaching plot to corporatize Wisconsin. The same as they are doing in Michigan, and Ohio.

The AFL-CIO and MoveOn have a heavy hand in the recall petitions. Now again, what's this about getting people drunk to get their signature?


We wouldn't even have this issue if he had stuck with doing his job, and not promoting his agenda.

Doing what he said would do if elected? If people were shocked by that why did they vote for him?

LT Guv Gain Newsome of California recently went to Texas ;a state he despises ;to find out why jobs are leaving California to Texas.

Doh.

LOCAL HEADLINES | WTDY Talk Radio 1670 (http://www.wtdy.com/content/LOCAL-HEADLINES-19.html)

Tommygun264: I was not talking about trading drinks for votes being (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Tommygun264/wisconsin-recall-shots_n_851459_85388530.html)

Wisconsin Recall Fight Heats Up As Democrats Complain Of 'Shots For Signatures' Deals (AUDIO) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/21/wisconsin-recall-shots_n_851459.html)

Ah, so one bartender is offering shots for signatures. Darn him. Next thing you know he'll be busing in people to terrorize unsuspecting Democrats and pacing in front of the polling place with a club in his hand.

Ah, so one bartender is offering shots for signatures. Darn him. Next thing you know he'll be busing in people to terrorize unsuspecting Democrats and pacing in front of the polling place with a club in his hand.

I wonder if Eric Holder would prosecute that voter intimidation??

No need to bus anyone. The Dem's, and Repubs are working to get rid of REPUBLICANS.

House votes to restrict unions - Boston.com (http://articles.boston.com/2011-04-27/news/29479557_1_unions-object-labor-unions-health-care)

Will the State House in Massachusetts be occupied ?

Will the State House in Massachusetts be occupied ?Hello again, tom:

That, or they'll throw the bums out next time.

excon

Nahh I think since the Dems. Are doing the dirty deed they'll swallow it.

The difference between Wisconsin, and Massachusetts, is Mass is still talking and negotiating, heated, but still in the process. That's the difference between Dem's and Repubs. Repubs dictate, Dem's negotiate.Its a process.

Nahh I think since the Dems. are doing the dirty deed they'll swallow it.A fellatio joke? Do you guys sink any lower?

They voted already in the Mass. Legislature ;awaiting a Senate vote... the absolute same point that the protests began in Wisconsin .

I see the hypocrisy here is NY too. Cuomo is being tough and the unions are not rising up.

You mean a process like Obama care that was rammed through WITHOUT a house vote? To keep the minority party from having ANY input at all? But THAT was acceptable?

Hello again,

Well, since the Republicans KNOW they're going to lose their majority in the recalls coming up, they're RAMMING their right wing agenda (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014994356_wisconsin08.html)down our throats, BEFORE they get thrown out on their a$$'s.

The bastards. In a rapid sequence of votes over the next eight weeks, they plan to legalize concealed weapons, deregulate the telephone industry, require voters to show photo identification at the polls, expand school vouchers and undo an early release for prisoners.

I don't know what happened to the jobs thing... I guess they were lying.

excon

They have jobs, why should they care if you don't? You know a better way to keep your kids from competing for the jobs of the future than keep adults from affording ANY education, and build more jails for YOUR kids?

I don't. Will it work? They are going to try their best that's for sure! Will it stick? I seriously doubt it!

I don't. Will it work? They are gonna try their best thats for sure! Will it stick? I seriously doubt it!Hello again, Tal:

It's much harder to get a law repealed, than it is to stop it from being passed in the first place... The Republicans are doing this all over the place... Florida passed a law to have ANYONE who applies for public help MUST take a drug test and PAY for it. You know, real crazy right wing stuff...

What's happening to our country.. I just heard an amazing thought... It seems there's a general consensus around Washington from BOTH parties, that the Republicans are going to take over the Senate in 2012. Can you believe that??

excon

I don't know... in Wiscosin they tried to save jobs. Here in NY the Mayor isn't asking the public unions for give backs... he's just firing them..

Hello again, Tal:

It's much harder to get a law repealed, than it is to stop it from being passed in the first place... The Republicans are doing this all over the place... Florida passed a law to have ANYONE who applies for public help MUST take a drug test and PAY for it. You know, real crazy right wing stuff...

What's happening to our country.. I just heard an amazing thought... It seems there's a general consensus around Washington from BOTH parties, that the Republicans are going to take over the Senate in 2012. Can you believe that???

excon


That's the point, its about agenda, NOT jobs. Power, and money, and getting more of it. Its an old story, and still playing. Some never get enough, and don't circulate it, and we all suffer. So much for that trickle down stuff.

Nothing wrong with keeping drug addicts... and drunks off the public coffers. And criminals out of public housing.

Hello again,

Wisconsin judge strikes down Walkers union busting law. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-wis-judge-strikes-down-controversial-labor-law-20110526,0,2048956.story) I don't know WHY those law and order Republicans can't seem to follow the law. It's a simple open meetings law. It means you have to be transparent and let people know what you're going to do.. Instead, the Republicans, thought they could sneak the law into being... Stupid Republicans.

excon

Hello again,

Wisconsin judge strikes down Walkers union busting law. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-wis-judge-strikes-down-controversial-labor-law-20110526,0,2048956.story) I dunno WHY those law and order Republicans can't seem to follow the law. It's a simple open meetings law. It means you have to be transparent and let people know what you're going to do.. Instead, the Republicans, thought they could sneak the law into being... Stupid Republicans

Geez, this was the most talked about law of the year. The Wisconsin legislature was overflowing with protesting visitors. How in the heck can some judge say it wasn't transparent, because Democrats refused to stay and do their job?

Btw, that was just one circuit court judge's opinion. It ain't over yet, so don't crow too loudly about Republicans breaking the law. You oughtta be criticizing Democrats who didn't stick around for the fight anyway.

It ain't over yet, so don't crow too loudly about Republicans breaking the law. You oughtta be criticizing Democrats who didn't stick around for the fight anyway.Hello again, Steve:

Ain't crowing. Just announcing..

But, you point out the problem.. It would have been SOOO easy for the Republicans to pass the law LEGALLY since they did it in the middle of the night AFTER the Democrats returned... All they had to do was announce the meeting ACCORDING to law... They didn't. Stupid Republicans.

Now, they're going to have a doover with all the incumbent embarrassment... T's cool with me.

By the way, the Democrats DID their job. Because of what they did, the stupid Republicans are going to LOSE their jobs, and the Democrats are going to retake the Senate. That looks exactly like their job TO ME.

excon

Their JOB is to represent the people of Wisconsin, not get rid of the other guy.

Their JOB is to represent the people of Wisconsin, not get rid of the other guy.Hello again, Steve:

Getting rid of the OTHER guy IS their job, and absolutely serves the interests of the people. You want to define their jobs, YET you can't produce a POLICY or a LAW, or an EMPLOYMENT MANUAL that says that's what their job is. You're making it up. You WISH that wasn't their job, but it IS, my friend, it truly IS.

excon

Lol here is a Judge who with any integrity would've recused herself .


SCR 60.03 A judge shall avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety in all of the judge's activities. (1) A judge shall respect and comply with the law and shall act at all times in a manner that promotes public confidence in the integrity and impartiality of the judiciary...
(2) A judge may not allow family, social, political or other relationships to influence the judge's judicial conduct or judgment. A judge may not lend the prestige of judicial office to advance the private interests of the judge or of others or convey or permit others to convey the impression that they are in a special position to influence the judge. A judge may not testify voluntarily as a character witness.
http://www.wicourts.gov/about/committees/judicialcommission/code.htm?content=pdf&seqNo=1070


Maryann Sumi 's son is a political operative who is a former lead field manager with the AFL-CIO and data manager for the SEIU State Council.He runs a company called runs a company called 'Left Field Strategies'.

Her decision is a temporary set back. It is also comical for the reason Steve pointed out.

Getting rid of the OTHER guy IS

A representative's job is to represent the people. Wisconsin's constitution also allows for the legislative bodies to compel the attendance (http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll/Constitution%20Related/wiscon/5?f=templates$fn=document-frameset.htm$q=[field%20folio-destination-name:%27IV,7%27]$x=Advanced#0-0-0-127)of missing members, which they did. They had a week to return and do their jobs before the bill was passed without them, so don't tell me those Wisconsin Democrats did their job.

If what Wisconsin democrats did was against the law, then why haven't the repubs used the law to punish them? Well they tried, but the ones to get punished under the LAW so far are 3 of the repubs who did their job! 6 more are under review, 3 dems, and 3 more repubs.

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110524/APC0101/105240431/Board-clears-way-GOP-recall-elections?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

Wonder how that happened?

More on Judge Sumi...
It's an all in the family deal . Her hubby is Carl Sinderbrand, an environmental lawyer, who made a name for himself earlier in this story for his contributions to JoAnne Kloppenburg .

Wonder why Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas didn't recuse himself when a case before the court involved his wife's employer??

If what Wisconsin democrats did was against the law, then why haven't the repubs used the law to punish them?

I said nothing about them breaking the law, Ex said Republicans broke the law by not being transparent. I said it couldn't have been more transparent and that Democrats didn't do their job and that the law allows their legislature to compel them to attend (and punish them according to their rules).


Article IV, §7
Organization of legislature; quorum; compulsory attendance. Section 7. Each house shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members; and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business, but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide.

They were compelled to return and didn't until a week later after the Senate passed the bill. How does this all equal Republicans broke the law?

You mean the Open Meeting Law? All they had to do was post the proper notice and vote again. So they broke the law.

Now breaking the public trust is a more serious offense for which there are lawful remedies for.

How did they violate the Open Meeting Law? The law states "all meetings of all state and local governmental bodies shall be publicly held in places reasonably accessible to members of the public and shall be open to all citizens at all times unless otherwise expressly provided by law.”

Was it closed to the public?

How did they violate the Open Meeting Law?Hello again, Steve:

It needs to be announced a certain amount of time ahead... They didn't do that. It WAS real simple, if you have a mind to OBEY the law... If you want to CRAM the bill down the throats of your constituents, you CHEAT, and BREAK the law like the Republicans DID.

You don't think we're making this up, do you?

excon

3. Time of notice
The provision in Wis. Stat. § 19.84(3) requires that every public notice of a meeting be given at least
Twenty-four hours in advance of the meeting, unless “for good cause” such notice is “impossible or impractical.”
If “good cause” exists, the notice should be given as soon as possible and must be given at least two hours in
Advance of the meeting. Wis. Stat. § 19.84(3).
-

When did they announce it? The whole world knew this was coming, the Fleebaggers left the state AFTER being compelled to attend to intentionally obstruct passage. They had a fricking month's notice.

Even this judge noted they gad given the 2 hours notice provided for in § 19.84(3) cited by Talaniman.


Sumi, appointed to the bench by former Republican Gov. Tommy Thompson, earlier had put the law on hold, finding that legislators provided two hours' advance notice (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-wisconsin-unions-20110527,0,5729406.story) of the meeting, instead of the 24 hours required by state law.

You just cited their justification, Tal. Maybe you should send that section to the judge and LA Times.

P.S. I'm not making this stuff up, either.

When did they announce it? The whole world knew this was coming.... They had a fricking month's notice.Hello Steve:

Yeah, that pesky law... Sure they KNEW it was coming... But, they have to say the WORDS. It's like a trial. They have to say the word GUILTY before they can lead the defendant away in chains... That's the LAW. I didn't make it up.

You'd think the party of LAW & ORDER would KNOW that - but you'd be WRONG.

excon

Hello Steve:

Yeah, that pesky law... Sure they KNEW it was coming... But, they have to say the WORDS. It's like a trial. They have to say the word GUILTY before they can lead the defendant away in chains... That's the LAW. I didn't make it up.

You'd think the party of LAW & ORDER would KNOW that - but you'd be WRONG.

Dude, Tal cited the law on 2 hours notice which the judge said was given. Seems pretty simple to me, they didn't violate the law.

Seems pretty simple to me, they didn't violate the law.Hello Dude:

If so, then the reversal will be reversed. Tom gave plenty of reasons it should be... But, of course, if they judge the law, on the LAW instead of the judge who reversed it, they probably WON'T reverse it.

I don't know. But, it seems clear that there IS a question of whether proper notice was given. I wasn't there. You weren't either. However, if you've seen the video tape, you'll SEE that the Republicans were WARNED that they were violating the law at the VERY moment they were doing it. Clearly, if they WANTED to avoid this controversy, that they ABSOLUTELY had to KNOW was coming, they COULD have stopped, considered their actions, and gone BACK to make ABSOLUTELY certain that all their I's were dotted and their T's were crossed...

They DIDN'T. They forged ahead. Now, they're paying the price. It may COST 'em - specially since it was SO EASY to do it legally. Stupid Republicans...

excon

I knew I should have copied and pasted the whole law, that in addition to a 2 hour notice, it has to be put in a place that everyone can see it. The bulletin board of the senate chamber, doesn't count. Word of mouth doesn't count. You actually have to publish it where the public can see it.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dls/OMPR/2010OMCG-PRO/2010_OML_Compliance_Guide.pdf

As you see they started the clock before they informed the public. It goes to the Wisconsin Supreme Court next. Or they could simply bypass all that by giving proper notice, and voting again. Hmmm, why didn't they just do that and be done with it? That could have been done the next day, and made the injunction non existent.

Hmmm, why didn't they just do that and be done with it?? Hello again, tal:

Because they thought they had a mandate. Because they got caught up in the rightness of their cause. Because they believed their own press. Because they got heady with power. Because they became arrogant. Because they didn't read the law. Because they thought the law didn't matter. Because they FORGOT to read the law. Because they don't know how to read.

Take you're pick.

excon

I knew I should have copied and pasted the whole law, that in addition to a 2 hour notice, it has to be put in a place that everyone can see it.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dls/OMPR/2010OMCG-PRO/2010_OML_Compliance_Guide.pdf

Yes, I saw that compliance guide yesterday. That's not the law, that's the AG's opinion.


As you see they started the clock before they informed the public.


I don't see that, where do I see that?

Hello again, tal:

Because they thought they had a mandate. Because they got caught up in the rightness of their cause. Because they believed their own press. Because they got heady with power. Because they became arrogant. Because they didn't read the law. Because they thought the law didn't matter. Because they FORGOT to read the law. Because they don't know how to read.

Take you're pick.

excon

I'm on to your trick questions EX! All the above is the correct answer.

QUOTE by speechlesstx;
Yes, I saw that compliance guide yesterday. That's not the law, that's the AG's opinion.
You have to cross reference to the cited law in the guide.


As you see they started the clock before they informed the public.
I don't see that, where do I see that?

That was the judge's ruling not mine.

Judge rules Wisconsin violated open meetings law - Post Bulletin (http://www.postbulletin.com/news/stories/display.php?id=1455999)

That was the judge's ruling not mine.

I haven't seen the judges ruling yet. Your article reports they "failed to comply with the open meetings law, which requires at least two hours' notice to the public." The article I cited contests that.


Sumi, appointed to the bench by former Republican Gov. Tommy Thompson, earlier had put the law on hold, finding that legislators provided two hours' advance notice of the meeting, instead of the 24 hours required by state law.

So, is she reversing her earlier finding that they did provide two hours' advance notice? "Oops, my bad," said Sumi.

Pathetic, Wisconsin libs protested Gov. Walker at a Special Olympics event.

dcuqM1LEi5c

Really?

Pathetic, Wisconsin libs protested Gov. Walker at a Special Olympics event.Hello again, Steve:

The MacIver Institute, who produced the video, bills itself as "The Free Market Voice For Wisconsin". But, they sure don't believe in FREEDOM, or the People's right to assemble. A REAL American doesn't pick between WHICH freedoms to support. He supports them ALL.

Besides, I thought you were going to show how those pathetic libs were knocking over the disabled kids when they ran their races... But, naaaa.. They were doing what every good American citizen should do.

What?? Demonstrations are only good if Tea Partiers do it?? DUDE!

excon

Update... Goveror Walker's law was upheld by the State Supreme Court.

update .... Goveror Walker's law was upheld by the State Supreme Court.Hello again, tom:

A temporary setback in a long game. Like your guys are going to repeal Obamney care, Wisconsonites will repeal Walkerf**k.

excon

Yeah already you are seeing school districts negotiating better deals with their public union employees saving the tax payers $$$ from property taxes. The better business environment will allow the state to recruit new businesses. In a year you won't hear a peep of protest from the people of the state.

A temporary setback in a long game. Like your guys are gonna repeal Obamney care, Wisconsonites will repeal Walkerf**k.

You do know that Repubs are not alone in facing recalls? And in one recall race, the Democrat just blew it...

WI Dem to constituent: ‘I feel like calling her back and smacking her around’ (http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/06/14/wi-dem-to-constituent-i-feel-like-calling-her-back-and-smacking-her-around/)

What??? Demonstrations are only good if Tea Partiers do it??? DUDE!

Tea Parties don't spoil it for Special Olympians.

You know this was a ridiculous idea that has spread far beyond Wisconsin, We had state Government employees rallying here against government attempts to change the state of play.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/nsw-government-to-push-through-wages-bill-20110616-1g4kl.html

Do the unions own your politicians too ?

do the unions own your politicians too ?

Well you see Tom a little time ago we had a Labor, union dominated government chucked out on its ear and the new bloke, Liberal party with 16 years of chagrin under his belt has decided that the state budget needs some trimming and rather than for go the dividends from the power industry and lowering state travel fares he has opted for taking it out of the public sector wages. Basically he attacks those who have nowhere else to go, Nurses, Teachers, Police but mind you he has pegged politicians wage rises too. What he is doing is sacking the umpire and appointing himself industrial relations supremo

It becomes very difficult in a socialistally organised democracy when the government wants to tighten its belt, who suffers but the workers? There are lots of state owned enterprises and services to attack, this mob have also agreed to massive rises in local government taxes, electricity tarrifs and various other charges excepting travel fares which for some pecular reason they have decided to lower.

When you have socialized systems you needs absolute czars to administer them.

When you have socialized systems you needs absolute czars to administer them.

True but what we have is politicians who think politics will get the job done, They forget jobs are done by real people not statistics. This dill has had to back down because reduction in service delivery is not an option. When we elect a government we expect that they will deliver. So if you provide public transport it is on time, if public hospitals they are staffed, if Police, they are dealing with the social problems of crime and civil disorder, Courts are dealing with offenders, Jails are adequate to house offenders. We have a highly honed system, no local government involved in essential services other than water and sewerage. Need I go on, less is not more.

I like Pawlenty's conclusion... if you can find a good or service on Goggle ,then the government shouldn't be providing it.

It is all a matter of scale and tradition, Tom, when private enterprise doesn't step up to provide a service, often lack of capital, then if the service is essential, government must provide it until such times as the society matures. This can often result in partial privatisation during a transition phase. What we have found is that private enterprise will not take over enterprises which don't pay their way, i.e. Urban or Country rail networks, Electricity generation and distribution. Whilst some of this is changing there are very few investors taking the risk and those that have have been bitten or the assets have been given away at bargain prices.

It is easy to use over simplifications

Pawlenty's plan is flawed because it takes a premise that business can do it better, FOR PROFIT, and has no basis in FACT. Show me where the economy had sustained growth of 5%.

Sounds good, and admiral goal to pursue, but when it falls short say to half that, what do you do with the people that it affects? No matter what goods and services are provided, when the business plan fails to generate profits, then its people who pay the price. The question is who, or what fills that gap, while they grow another business?

Show me where the economy had sustained growth of 5%.

Both Reagan and Clinton had growths at close to 5 % .The first couple years of the Reagan recovery was 7 percent

You are right ,it is a laudable goal and more worthy of a President than tooting a horn over a growth rate that produces well short of 10,000 jobs... the “new normal ". Pawlenty calls this target aspirational and so it is .

Where he gets it right is where many here has also argued ;that the tax system(not just tinkering with rates ) needs overhaul.

He is also right that many government services could be better done by the private sector.

NJ Gov. Chris Christie has accomplished something amazing in a state as Democratic and unionized as his, he got the NJ Assembly and Senate to roll back government benefits and cut back collective bargaining rights.

New Jersey Lawmakers Approve Benefits Rollback for Work Force (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/nyregion/nj-legislature-moves-to-cut-benefits-for-public-workers.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss)


TRENTON — New Jersey lawmakers on Thursday approved a broad rollback of benefits for 750,000 government workers and retirees, the deepest cut in state and local costs in memory, in a major victory for

The Assembly passed the bill 46 to 32, as Republicans and a few Democrats defied raucous protests by thousands of people whose chants, vowing electoral revenge, shook the State House. Leaders in the State Senate said their chamber, which had already passed a slightly different version of the bill, would approve the Assembly version on Monday. Mr. Christie, a Republican, was expected to sign the measure into law quickly.

In a statement released after the vote, Mr. Christie said, “We are putting the people first and daring to touch the third rail of politics in order to bring reform to an unsustainable system.”

Unsustainable? That's putting it mildly.

Study: To Fund Public Pensions, Taxes Must be Raised $1,400 Every Year for 30 Years (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/study-fully-fund-public-pensions-taxes-must-be-raised-1400-every-year-30-years_575454.html)


U.S. state and local governments will need to raise taxes by $1,398 per household every year for the next 30 years if they are to fully fund their pension systems, a study released on Wednesday said.

The study, co-authored by Joshua Rauh of Northwestern University and Robert Novy-Marx of the University of Rochester, both of whom are finance professors, argues that states will have to cut services or raise taxes to make up funding gaps if promises made to municipal employees are to be honored.

That's $1400 per household per year every year for 30 years. Time to do something you think?

Here we go again. When will you figure out that these cuts to middle class workers, be it health, services, or wages (that have been stagnant for decades), wouldn't be necessary if you rolled back taxes, and closed tax loopholes to the corporations who ain't making no jobs.

Will Higher Taxes Tank the Economy? (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/06/24/Will-Higher-Taxes-Tank-the-Economy.aspx)

How many times do we have to go through this same thing again??

More corporate welfare, that's a great solution. Case in point, Romney talking about HIS being as unemployed as everybody else. That's gall!!

Tal, in both instances we're talking government employees, not your average middle class, private sector worker. I know I don't get 6 weeks off a year like my county deputy sheriff brother, or all the state holidays like my brother at TXDOT, or have so much sick leave and personal time built up I could take half the year off, nor can I retire after 15 or 20 years with full pension and benefits, all thanks to YOUR tax dollars.

Plus, though I'd prefer a FAIR or flat tax, I have no problem closing some corporate loopholes, internet sales tax loopholes and the like. But is that going to cover the $1400 per household per year for 30 years needed just to cover public employee benefits? I don't think so, and no matter how you look at it, things should never have gotten that out of hand.

P.S. I don't think I offered anything about more corporate welfare as a solution.

Its pretty simple, but you have to look at the way each state handles its budget short falls. Just as federally, lower taxes creates less revenue, and as you remember that's what was done in 2001, why, because there were no wars and no housing crisis, and no recession.

But when the crisis hit globally through the banks and wall street, the government eased the pain, to give states a buffer and a chance to adjust. (the stimulus) Just like the Federal budget deficit, a balanced approach, with shared sacrifice is what's needed, and most people are okay with that.

You only have to look at the way some states addressed this problem, to see that people just don't like additional tax cuts for corporations while they take cuts in benefits and services. So far this has only been in states with newly elected Republican governors. That's not a coincidence. Democratic governors have raised taxes, and made cuts also, and as yet you don't see the people congregating en mass on state capitals. Why is that? Tell me how Illinois closes its debt gaps, and Wisconsin has a march??

I can tell you why, because the states that had the balanced approach, (as you have said you are for), sat down at the table, and made an agreement for shared sacrifice, and the ones who cut corporate state taxes on the backs of workers, benefits, and services, in the name of balancing a budget,

And when you get a chance, ask that trooper brother what his union had to give up to get his so called perks. Its an untold story. When any worker takes benefits, its in lieu of WAGES, and its no secret the middle class wages haven't gone up in darn near 15 years, unlike private sector corporations, because other things have taken there place. Funny how when you negotiate, and not dictate and are fair how people go along with you.

The story in New Jersey is just getting started, just like in Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, and Ohio.Stay tuned before you make it a success story. State workers are no different than private sector workers, just ask a teacher, or a cop, or a firefighter. The staple of the neighborhoods they live in.

I will be honest, what pisses me off is the very ones who holler about THEIR rights, don't care about anyone else's, and that my friend, is the problem in a nutshell. Not you personally, mind you, but the ones who say how bad government is, and then make policies that take from the weak, and poor, and give to the rich.

I guess you can tell that I just don't like the style of some of my fellow Americans. Republican Governors particularly.

That's why they raise hell in some states and not in others.

I guess you can tell that I just don't like the style of some of my fellow Americans. Republican Governors particularly.

Thats why they raise hell in some states and not in others.

The reason they're raising hell is the unions are stirring sh*t up.

That's what happens when you disrespect a group, and vilify them. You'd be pissed too wouldn't you?? Its not their fault somebody can't count, or somebody can, and robbed ALL of us. Follow the money, it didn't trickle down, so who stopped it?

And these guys are Governors, not dictators. The fire guy, or the teacher didn't rip us off.

It may not be their fault, but the question is how did it ever get this bad? There were a lot of governors and legislators on both sides letting it get that bad for a long time, and it can't continue, period.

Speaking of disrespecting a group, that's why the Tea Party hit a nerve. And what happened? The left, from the president down, disrespected them even more and the community organize in chief himself was at the forefront of stirring sh*t up with his union cohorts at Tea Party rallies. How'd that work out for them?

Tea party people are angry, and riled up, plenty of emotions for sure, but the money is from the top, and so are the policies. Their anger is subverted, and misdirected.

I would be wary of anyone who followed the sick logic of Rush Limbaugh, and Karl Rove, and we are a long way from getting all the FACTS. November 2012!!

Tal, I went to a Tea Party once and Rush and Karl were nowhere to be found. Just a bunch of normal citizens fed up with government.

That's not where the money comes from, follow the money.

Thats not where the money comes from, follow the money.

On both sides. Obama spent the last few years demonizing Wall Street, now he's sucking up to them for money.

Just as federally, lower taxes creates less revenue,\

Ahhh taxes to the progressive is like breating air . They can't get enough of it. The truth is that revenues are fine. They are close to 20 % of the GDP The Federal Government has plenty revenues. What they have however is an addiction to spending.. The Obots have spending at 24% of GDP . Reduce the spending down to 2008 levels and you would soon see balanced budgets and reductions in the deficit .

Even states like Kalifornia are beginning to understand that . The state legislature is learning their lesson the hard way.
The people decided if they submitted a fantasy budget that the clowns in the state house would not get paid for their efforts. Guess what... they submitted a fantasy budget anyway and now their wallets are a bit lighter today.

State budgets, and Federal budgets are TWO different things entirely. This recession is about money not circulating, crucial for any economy, nor is it trickling down. Be one thing if corporations were paying something, but between off shore accounts, outsourcing American jobs, and smart tax lawyers, the economy has been drained of any kind of circulation, because there is nothing to circulate. This is a man made problem, and not a coincidence. Too much spending? Perhaps, you can trim some fat, and increase some revenues by giving money away to corporations who don't need it, make Wall Street do what its supposed to do, INVEST, to circulate some money, and make obstructionist REPUBLICAN do there job and legislate, instead of keeping us down so they can gain POWER again.

If the American people say raise taxes on the rich, DO IT!! Then cut some spending rationally. What more evidence do you need when the Dem's agree to cut 2 trillion freaking dollars, and the repubs can't raise a single tax, or close loopholes, or rework the tax structure.

I know you guys want to shrink Government, and do as you please, but you are really good at not SHARING the country with those who don't agree.

Still waiting for those jobs you promised by the way. That's what you won 2010 with, so deliver.

This is a man made problem,

Indeed it is :
TARP ;Stimulus ,Dodd Frank , Fed easy money ,and Obamacare. Obama complains that corporations were forced to go the efficiency route ;but it's his failed pump priming policies that brought that on.

BTW ;it won't win any points with me railing against Wall Street. I was the one here who said let the markets do their punishing when the rest of the country panicked about some banks on the verge of collapse. I to this day do not believe in "too big to fail" .

Still waiting for those jobs you promised by the way. That's what you won 2010 with, so deliver
Getting 1/2 of Congress will not get it done... but it's a good start. Still need to retake the Senate and the Presidency. Biden and co. are stonewalling on the debt ceiling and budget negotiations ,and the compliant press has already picked up the mantle of the Shumer talking point that the Republicans are at fault. The American people understand that jobs will come when some fiscal sanity returns to Washington, and some people running the country who understand the you need to create a business friendly environment, instead of treating business as a piñata for rhetorical demagoguery,

I do fault repubs, for the rhetoric and the stalling tactics, the blatant obstruction, the power grabs, and thinks part of the country lives at the whim of the other. I blame repubs for not negotiating, and COMPROMISING for solutions. They way I see it, I survived repubs presidents, and congresses, and its your turn to survive democrats. Yeah it's a vicious cycle ain't it.


The American people understand that jobs will come when some fiscal sanity returns to Washington,
Half the American people know that giving ALL the money to corporations doesn't make jobs. Your half doesn't seem to know that. Half the people know that giving ALL the money to corporations who have been sending jobs overseas, for decades, are not to be trusted, and doesn't make sense.

and some people running the country who understand the you need to create a business friendly environment,
If them making record profits without making jobs, isn't friendly enough, WHAT IS??

instead of treating business as a piñata for rhetorical demagoguery,
Its not rhetoric, its fact, just look at the profits and the shrinking middle class, and what the repubs are helping them do to America. Not just the Dem half, but the repub half.

What you think all the struggling masses are DEMOCRATS??

I do fault repubs, for the rhetoric and the stalling tactics, the blatant obstruction, the power grabs, and thinks part of the country lives at the whim of the other. I blame repubs for not negotiating, and COMPROMISING for solutions. They way I see it, I survived repubs presidents, and congresses, and its your turn to survive democrats. Yeah its a vicious cycle ain't it.

Yep, you survived the Bush years when the Democrats were proud to stall and obstruct (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/06/17/democrats/index2.html). I'm sure I'll survive the Obama years through all his power grabs and Democrats refusal to compromise, such as the Obamacare legislation that was rammed through against public opinion while Republicans were locked out of discussions.

P.S. The Democrats own this economy (http://stevenbirnspeaks.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/democrats-proudly-own-economy-propose-70-tax-rate/), how's it going?

Democrats own this economy, how's it going?Hello again, Steve:

How IS it going?? Well, that depends on how you define "is".

I say, given that we were already OVER the cliff and headed straight down, that Obama saved us from hitting bottom. No, we have NOT yet been pulled all the way back up. But, we DIDN'T hit bottom...

You sound like a guy who stops hitting himself in the head with a hammer and wonders where he got all those marks.

excon

P.S. The Democrats own this economy (http://stevenbirnspeaks.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/democrats-proudly-own-economy-propose-70-tax-rate/), how's it going?

Better than it was when Bush left.

Hello again,

Nahhh... It ain't over yet. I think we might see a READJUSTMENT in the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Seems as though the recently re-elected Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice David Prosser attempted to strangle liberal (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=44487)Justice Ann Walsh Bradley during an argument last week. The cops are investigating.

excon

There's more than one side (http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/06/alternate-account-of-prosser-bradley.html) to that story.

Better than it was when Bush left.

Carville: 2012 could be ‘very rough’ for Obama, says civil unrest ‘imminently possible’
(http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/06/carville-2012-could-be-very-rough-for-obama-says-civil-unrest-imminently-possible/#ixzz1Qa6AI2xv)

Hello again, Steve:

Ahhhh... a he said, she said, huh?? Well, OBVIOUSLY, the liberal is telling the truth.

excon

'very rough' for Obama, says civil unrest 'imminently possible'
Hello again, Steve:

Obama is BUSH on steroids. Carville looks like Mr. Magoo but he's RIGHT. Anti-war demonstrations are kicking up here in the Emerald City. They're going to spread... I'm old and creaky, but I'm joining up. It's my last chance to relive the 60's...

Whhhoooooeeeee!

excon

Nah, Carville looks like Gollum.

http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/1893607.jpg

More Details Emerge in Wisconsin’s ‘Chokegate’
June 28, 2011 11:42 A.M. (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/270679/more-details-emerge-wisconsin-s-chokegate-christian-schneider)
By Christian Schneider

With the Wisconsin Supreme Court devolving into a storyline only Vince McMahon could love, rumors are still swirling about what actually happened when two justices engaged in a physical confrontation behind closed doors on June 13. Justice Ann Walsh Bradley claims Justice David Prosser “choked” her. Prosser denies he choked Bradley, and claims she initiated physical contact. In the past two days, multiple sources with first-hand knowledge of the incident have been able to provide more details as to what exactly happened behind closed chamber doors.

The week before the legislature was set to re-pass the collective-bargaining provision, three of the four conservative justices were ready to issue a ruling reinstating the union law as originally passed. Prosser, on the other hand, wanted to wait longer, to avoid the appearance that the court was rushing their decision through. Prosser thought he had an agreement with liberal Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson to delay release of the opinion until Tuesday of the following week.

As Monday arrived, there was no word from Abrahamson on whether the decision would be issued the next day. At 5:30 p.m. Prosser and the other conservative justices marched around the chambers, looking for Abrahamson, who was found in Justice Bradley’s office. Prosser stood outside Bradley’s door, talking to the justices in Bradley’s office. The discussion got heated, with Prosser expressing his lack of faith in Abrahamson’s ability to lead the Court.

According to one witness, Bradley charged toward Prosser, shaking her clenched fist in his face. Another source says they were “literally nose to nose.” Prosser then put his hands up to push her away. As one source pointed out, if a man wants to push a woman who is facing him, he wouldn’t push her in the chest (unless he wants to face an entirely different criminal charge). Consequently, Prosser put his hands on Bradley’s shoulders to push her away, and in doing so, made contact with her neck.

At that moment, another justice approached Bradley from behind and pulled her away from Prosser, saying, “Stop it, Ann, this isn’t like you.” Bradley then shouted, “I was choked!” Another justice present replied, “You were not choked.” In a statement following the incident, Bradley maintained Prosser “put his hands around my neck in anger in a chokehold.”

On Monday night, Bradley called Capitol Police Chief Charles Tubbs to talk to him about the incident. On the morning of Wednesday, June 15, Tubbs joined the justices in a closed-door meeting, where he discussed “issues relating to workplace violence.”

During the meeting, Chief Justice Abrahamson actually reenacted the incident on Chief Tubbs — no doubt an amusing sight, as the diminutive Abrahamson mimicked choking the tall, portly police chief. During her demonstration, Abrahamson emphasized that Prosser had exerted “pressure” on Bradley’s throat.

“There was no pressure,” interrupted the justice who had initially broken up the incident between Bradley and Prosser. “That’s only because you broke us apart,” shot back Bradley. This exchange led several meeting attendees to believe Bradley was making up the charge, as they took her rejoinder as an admission that there was no pressure applied to her neck.

During the Wednesday meeting, Bradley urged the justices present to take a vote on whether Prosser should be forced into anger-management counseling. The threat was implicit — if they didn’t vote her way, she would be forced to “take the next step” against Prosser, which they took to mean filing a restraining order against him. The other justices balked, wondering whether they even had the authority to order Prosser into any type of counseling. Some thought it would be “demeaning” to Prosser to have to go to counseling when he had done nothing wrong. In the end, Bradley realized she didn’t have enough justices on her side and no vote was taken.

To date, Bradley has not filed any kind of charges against Prosser. Instead, the story was leaked to the George Soros–funded Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism, who used three anonymous sources to back up Bradley’s story. There were six justices present at the time of the incident, four of whom would be more likely to back Prosser’s version of the story. That leaves Abrahamson and Bradley as the only two remaining justices present. One source present speculated the third source may have been Bradley’s law clerk, who likely didn’t actually see the confrontation but may have head Bradley shout “I was choked.”

Speculation is abundant as to why Bradley decided to forgo a criminal complaint against Prosser, deciding instead to go to the press ten days after the event. Some say Bradley’s complaint wouldn’t have stood up if given the scrutiny of a criminal investigation. Furthermore, others speculate that if any formal criminal proceedings had moved forward (a restraining-order filing, for instance), Prosser would be afforded evidentiary hearings, testimony, and discovery.

Furthermore, sources unanimously believed that it was Shirley Abrahamson who has been the impetus behind the story, managing the press operation from behind the scenes. Justices had been working together regularly since the incident without any signs of rancor until Abrahamson decided to make this an issue, sources believe.

While Bradley has not filed any charges against Prosser, an investigation was initiated by the Capitol Police, who then quickly turned the case over to the Dane County Sheriff, David Mahoney — who once actually appeared in a campaign ad supporting the reelection of Chief Justice Abrahamson. The ad also included not-yet-famous circuit-court judge Maryann Sumi, whose ruling the Supreme Court had to vacate in order to allow Scott Walker’s collective-bargaining bill to stand.

Sounds to me like Bradley is making stuff up. If she was assaulted she should have filed a criminal complaint, not leaked a story to a Soros-funded outlet.

Hello again, Steve:

What a surprise... You and wrong stream media think the conservative is telling the truth..

excon

Have charges been filed? Did the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism break the story? Are they funded by Soros?

(1) Have charges been filed? (2) Did the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism break the story? (3) Are they funded by Soros?Hello again, Steve:

(1) They certainly MIGHT be after the cops investigate... (2) I don't know. What difference does it make? (3) I don't know. What difference does it make??

If it's true, it's true. If it's not, it's not. I don't care who funded who. But, of course the cad assaulted the little lady, just like Thomas left the pubic hair on the coke can.

excon

We'll see.

I think Prosser should counter charge asap. Of course if common sense prevailed then it will be realised that no one was hurt from the incident .


But, of course the cad assaulted the little lady. That's the typical prevailing opinion regardless of the facts.

I'm trying to come up with a scenario where he would've been so angry after a win to assault his opponent .


just like Thomas left the pubic hair on the coke can.


Yeah the left learned the new way to lynch very well in that case.

Seems Walker's collective bargaining law is already reaping benefits.


Union curbs rescue a Wisconsin school district (http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/06/union-curbs-rescue-wisconsin-school-district#ixzz1QrUZEyeb)
By: Byron York | Chief Political Correspondent Follow Him @ByronYork | 06/30/11 8:05 PM

"This is a disaster," said Mark Miller, the Wisconsin Senate Democratic leader, in February after Republican Gov. Scott Walker proposed a budget bill that would curtail the collective bargaining powers of some public employees. Miller predicted catastrophe if the bill were to become law -- a charge repeated thousands of times by his fellow Democrats, union officials, and protesters in the streets.

Now the bill is law, and we have some very early evidence of how it is working. And for one beleaguered Wisconsin school district, it's a godsend, not a disaster.

The Kaukauna School District, in the Fox River Valley of Wisconsin near Appleton, has about 4,200 students and about 400 employees. It has struggled in recent times and this year faced a deficit of $400,000. But after the law went into effect, at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday, school officials put in place new policies they estimate will turn that $400,000 deficit into a $1.5 million surplus. And it's all because of the very provisions that union leaders predicted would be disastrous.

In the past, teachers and other staff at Kaukauna were required to pay 10 percent of the cost of their health insurance coverage and none of their pension costs. Now, they'll pay 12.6 percent of the cost of their coverage (still well below rates in much of the private sector) and also contribute 5.8 percent of salary to their pensions. The changes will save the school board an estimated $1.2 million this year, according to board President Todd Arnoldussen.

Of course, Wisconsin unions had offered to make benefit concessions during the budget fight. Wouldn't Kaukauna's money problems have been solved if Walker had just accepted those concessions and not demanded cutbacks in collective bargaining powers?

"The monetary part of it is not the entire issue," says Arnoldussen, a political independent who won a spot on the board in a nonpartisan election. Indeed, some of the most important improvements in Kaukauna's outlook are because of the new limits on collective bargaining.

In the past, Kaukauna's agreement with the teachers union required the school district to purchase health insurance coverage from something called WEA Trust -- a company created by the Wisconsin teachers union. "It was in the collective bargaining agreement that we could only negotiate with them," says Arnoldussen. "Well, you know what happens when you can only negotiate with one vendor." This year, WEA Trust told Kaukauna that it would face a significant increase in premiums.

Now, the collective bargaining agreement is gone, and the school district is free to shop around for coverage. And all of a sudden, WEA Trust has changed its position. "With these changes, the schools could go out for bids, and lo and behold, WEA Trust said, 'We can match the lowest bid,'" says Republican state Rep. Jim Steineke, who represents the area and supports the Walker changes. At least for the moment, Kaukauna is staying with WEA Trust, but saving substantial amounts of money.

Then there are work rules. "In the collective bargaining agreement, high school teachers only had to teach five periods a day, out of seven," says Arnoldussen. "Now, they're going to teach six." In addition, the collective bargaining agreement specified that teachers had to be in the school 37 1/2 hours a week. Now, it will be 40 hours.

The changes mean Kaukauna can reduce the size of its classes -- from 31 students to 26 students in high school and from 26 students to 23 students in elementary school. In addition, there will be more teacher time for one-on-one sessions with troubled students. Those changes would not have been possible without the much-maligned changes in collective bargaining.

Teachers' salaries will stay "relatively the same," Arnoldussen says, except for higher pension and health care payments. (The top salary is around $80,000 per year, with about $35,000 in additional benefits, for 184 days of work per year -- summers off.) Finally, the money saved will be used to hire a few more teachers and institute merit pay.

It is impossible to overstate how bitter and ugly the Wisconsin fight has been, and that bitterness and ugliness continues to this day with efforts to recall senators and an unseemly battle inside the state Supreme Court. But the new law is now a reality, and Gov. Walker recently told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the measure will gain acceptance "with every day, week and month that goes by that the world doesn't fall apart."

In the Kaukauna schools, the world is not only not falling apart -- it's getting better.

Funny how a little common sense and competition can make things better all the way around.

Funny how a little common sense and competition can make things better all the way around.Hello again, Steve:

We'll see, won't we?

From MY perspective, it's not so much WHAT happened, but HOW it happened... And, I think HOW it happened will destroy ANY good that COULD come from WHAT happened, IF there's any good to be had...

First off, Walker didn't campaign on what he DID. He SPRUNG it on the voters... He played a hoax on 'em, and they didn't like it so much. You wouldn't like it either... So, no matter WHAT Walker does, or how good it MIGHT be, the electorate feels duped, because they WERE duped... This was FORCED upon them with NO notice. Nobody likes that. So, I think the voters are going to CHANGE it back, and that won't make things better at all.

Secondly, Walkers eyes are too close together.

excon

Oh, so when it came to Obamacare being rammed through against the will of the people that was OK. So, I'll be waiting for you to tell the people of Wisconsin to shut up and take their medicine.

Oh, so when it came to Obamacare being rammed through against the will of the people that was OK. Hello again, Steve:

You saw ramming where I saw the WILL of the people being carried out. Obama campaigned on health care reform... It wasn't a surprise.

Walker didn't do that, so I don't know if it was the will of the people or not. You don't either, since it was SNUCK in. The people DIDN'T have a chance to EXPRESS their WILL.

excon

Poll Finds Voters Against Obamacare, as Trust in Democrats Drops (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2009/08/14/poll-finds-voters-against-obamacare-as-trust-in-democrats-drops)

New CNN Poll: 59% Oppose Obamacare (http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/22/new-cnn-poll-59-oppose-obamacare/)

Health care law too costly, most say (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-29-health-poll_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip)


Nearly two-thirds of Americans say the health care overhaul signed into law last week costs too much and expands the government's role in health care too far, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, underscoring an uphill selling job ahead for President Obama and congressional Democrats.

Poll: Most Americans Remain Against Health Care Overhaul (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001700-503544.html)

I didn't see the will of the people wanting Obamacare in there anywhere.

Andrew Cuomo is a union buster too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/nyregion/new-york-reaches-deal-with-largest-public-employee-union.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
There was some talk by the left of this before the election , and the dinosaur media of course has been outraged.
The Slimes said :
..the unions should make their voices heard and push back hard against this misguided plan

Oh wait... that's what they said about Walker . The media and the left has largely given Cuomo a pass.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/opinion/18fri1.html

We will see when the dust settles as it sounds good now, but the ink ain't quite dry enough to say it helps the state yet, or if people will be pleased with the results. Unlike Obamacare which has already delivered results, and those who say it costs too much are not backed by facts.

The facts aren't in yet in Wisconsin. But they will be.

Unlike Obamacare which has already delivered results

What results would those be?

http://dpc.senate.gov/healthreformbill/healthbill46.pdf


No termination or rejection for pre existing conditions

Extending the age you can carry a child on your own insurance

Closing the donut hole for seniors

Reduce prescription drug costs for seniors by 50%

Free preventative care visits

Investment in Community Health Centers to provide the funding needed to expand access to
health care in communities where it is needed most. This $10 billion investment begins in
2010 and extends for five years.

Establish standards for insurance overhead and require public disclosure to ensure that enrollees get value for their premium dollars, requiring plans in the individual and small group market to spend 80 percent of premium dollars on clinical services and quality activities, and 85 percent for plans in the large group market. Health insurance plans that do not meet these thresholds will provide rebates to their policyholders. This provision takes effect in 2011 and applies to all plans, including grandfathered plans, with the exception of self-insured plans.

No Lifetime Limits on Coverage
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will prohibit insurers from imposing lifetime limits on benefits. This provision takes effect six months after enactment and applies to all new plans.

No Restricted Annual Limits on Coverage
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will tightly restrict insurance companies' use of annual limits to ensure access to needed care, effective six months after enactment for all new health plans. These tight restrictions will be defined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. When the Exchanges are operational, the use of annual limits will be banned.
Tired of typing but let me know which of these benefits you would like repealed, and how this is not a good thing. What do you think your republican buddies will put into place after they repeal OBAMA CARE?? Oh that's right, Paul Ryan has a better plan doesn't he.

Um, those may be provisions of Obamacare but that's not quite the same thing as results. Since the majority of the legislation has not been implemented it's hard to determine any results.

Just ask someone who is effected by the provisions that have already started, and from what my mom says it's a great start. Or ask the poor people who are going to free clinics, or health centers.

If its working great so far, it may turn into a greater idea with a few tweaks here and there. Just ask the people of Massachusetts, and Vermont, one has single payer, mandated, and the other is moving that way. May I remind you that the full law doesn't even take effect until 2014, and the cost savings kick in fully. And about that mandate every one is hollering about, and thinking that will get it repealed through the court.

Do you know what the civil, and criminal penalty is for NOT having health insurance? You can't take your premiums off your federal taxes. All of us that have insurance CAN. You know the part that seldom gets told? Your boss doesn't have to pay for your health care insurance, and if he does/wants to, he gets a tax break too. WIN-WIN!

I ask again, what's the downside of this deal?

Hello again,

There's a Democratic primary today, and the Republicans are running FAKE Democrats (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110712/GPG0101/107120453/Today-s-state-recall-election-primaries-pit-Democrats-vs-fake-Democrats)... In other words, they're LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH.

Uhhhh... Why is that OK, but leaving the state isn't?

excon

Hello again,

There's a Democratic primary today, and the Republicans are running FAKE Democrats (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110712/GPG0101/107120453/Today-s-state-recall-election-primaries-pit-Democrats-vs-fake-Democrats)... In other words, they're LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH.

Uhhhh.... Why is that ok, but leaving the state isn't?

exconWeird, it's all over the news but our conservative political pundits here seemed to have glossed over this.

Its okay for Republicans to rely on dirty tricks, but not you doing it to them. You act surprised, what, you think they run out of them? More to come.

I haven't glossed over anything, it's not my responsibility to raise every possible issue. Personally I think it's wrong, just as wrong as the fake Tea Party candidate in NY-26. (http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/11/tea-party-express-to-jump-in-to-new-york-special-election-to-stop-fake-tea-party-candidate/) I know it was mentioned here, were you just as upset then?

Personally I think it's wrong,Hello again, Steve:

Cool. We'll fix the world next...

excon

Cool. We'll fix the world next...

You can start with the Playasaurs. :D

According to the thred on the NY-26th ,the fate TP candidate didn't matter... it was the issues... throwing grandma over the cliff and all that. I assume in Wi. The "fake Dem" won't matter either unless the Dem's ox is gored...

Here in NY there is frequent cross party issues because the system sucks. Bloomberg went from Dem to Rep to Ind in the course of 3 elections . Evita purchased a house for the purpose of becoming a NY Senator ;and Bobby Kennedy rented a hotel room for his residency.

In case anyone cares...

WISCONSIN RECALL: Republicans Retain Senate Control, Dems Fall Short (http://www.businessinsider.com/wisconsin-recall-republicans-retain-senate-control-as-democrats-fall-short-2011-8)

Looks like Walker's collective bargaining measure - and the savings it's already racking up (http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/127269673.html) - will stand.

In case anyone cares...Hello again, Steve:

I care..

You know, I was 26 before I met my first Republican... I'd heard about them, but I didn't think anybody would actually BE one - especially since they weren't BORN that way. I've been reading.. You can pray it away, if you wanted.. It's a lifestyle choice. Just say no. (Oh, I forgot.. That's what you DO say.)

excon

It stands for now. I doubt that its over.

Hello again, Steve:

I care..

You know, I was 26 before I met my first Republican... I'd heard about them, but I didn't think anybody would actually BE one - especially since they weren't BORN that way. I've been reading.. You can pray it away, if you wanted.. It's a lifestyle choice. Just say no. (Oh, I forgot.. That's what you DO say.)

excon

LOL, OK, that was funny.

Hello again,

There's a Democratic primary today, and the Republicans are running FAKE Democrats (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110712/GPG0101/107120453/Today-s-state-recall-election-primaries-pit-Democrats-vs-fake-Democrats)... In other words, they're LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH.

Uhhhh.... Why is that ok, but leaving the state isn't?

excon

But when the Democrats do that... they get saluted?

Hello again,

Nahhh... It ain't over yet. I think we might see a READJUSTMENT in the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Seems as though the recently re-elected Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice David Prosser attempted to strangle liberal (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=44487)Justice Ann Walsh Bradley during an argument last week. The cops are investigating.

excon

No charges will be filed (http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/128389748.html).

Walker is already trying to figure out how to change the laws in Wisconsin to deal with his upcoming recall challenge. Stay tuned. Its just getting started there, and in Ohio, and Florida. Watch Michigan, and NEW JERSEY, Maine, New Hampshire, aw heck, anyplace with a first term Republican Governor. Its all related.

Walker is starting to sweat bullets.

While Walker's collective bargaining law continues to save money for otherwise strapped cities and school districts, union thugs are protesting (http://www.wisconsinreporter.com/demonstrators-disrupt-walkers-seuss-reading) at a successful school while the governor was reading to students, instead of doing something useful like educating children.

tHnbtkbgkfM


In a statement released Friday morning to FOX6 News in Milwaukee, Messmer President the Rev. Bob Smith said the Catholic school's mission is to educate students and instill values.

“We teach our students to respect adults and individuals they disagree with. Our students work hard and succeed. There are no gimmicks or tricks here, just a focus on traditional values,” Smith said in the statement.

Messmer sends 85% of its well-behaved high-school graduates to college. That's what's so threatening to the unions, the public schools they have in their grips can't compete with alternative schools that teach values, graduate their students and send them to college.

Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Center_for_Government_and_Public_Integrit y)

What would you expect from a right wing Republican organization? And tell me how they know about the savings when school just started? Oh, that's right from the money they cut from education, that the schools won't get.

Budget cuts $834 million from schools - JSOnline (http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/117192683.html)

Uncharted waters: Public school superintendents may be facing ?perfect storm? (http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/blog/article_4d0c0d30-cdd7-11e0-93dd-001cc4c03286.html)

Basically he takes public money to fund private, and charter schools. You start letting rich families get free education through the Walker plan, guess who gets squeezed out? The numbers don't lie.

That's what the recall will be about!

Personally... the Public schools are doing such a crappy job thanks to the NEA and Teachers unions pushing an agenda rather than education as their purpose in life... the money is rightfully going to Charter schools who will educate rather an indocrinate. And they on average do a far better job.

Where are the NEA and Teachers unions entitled to exclusivity in the education system?

When it cuts out the ones who can least afford it. How does a $50,000 household need state money for education??

http://legalclips.nsba.org/?p=6411


Gov. Scott Walker supports expanding the voucher program, saying it gives families more choices in how to educate their children. The present voucher program is limited to low-income students. Walker would like to eliminate income limits and expand the program to other cities, including Racine, Beloit and Green Bay.

Only in the left's mind does cutting funding to failing schools and using it give giving the "choice" to get their children an excellent education mean disaster. Why are we throwing away gazillions of dollars to schools that don't work? Oh yeah, to keep the unions happy and the leftist indoctrination intact. By golly we can't upset the union apple cart or teach our kids to think for themselves and be productive, educated citizens.

P.S. I've already reported on two successes of the collective bargaining law.

Union curbs rescue a Wisconsin school district (http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/06/union-curbs-rescue-wisconsin-school-district#ixzz1QrUZEyeb)

Milwaukee to see net gain from state budget (http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/127269673.html)

I have no doubt we'll be hearing more benefits reaped by the new law.

. Why are we throwing away gazillions of dollars to schools that don't work? .

Interesting question seems accountability went out the window when schools became a matter of local politics

This is what happens when you give parents a choice...

Ind. vouchers prompt thousands to change schools (http://articles.boston.com/2011-08-28/news/29938997_1_john-elcesser-indiana-non-public-education-association-voucher-program)


Weeks after Indiana began the nation’s broadest school voucher program, thousands of students have transferred from public to private schools, causing a spike in enrollment at some Catholic institutions that were only recently on the brink of closing for lack of pupils.

It’s a scenario public school advocates have long feared: Students fleeing local districts in large numbers, taking with them vital tax dollars that often end up at parochial schools. Opponents say the practice violates the separation of church and state.

In at least one district, public school principals have been pleading with parents not to move their children.

“The bottom line from our perspective is, when you cut through all the chaff, nobody can deny that public money is going to be taken from public schools, and they’re going to end up in private, mostly religious schools,’’ said Nate Schnellenberger, president of the Indiana State Teachers Association.

The Supremes have already ruled that vouchers for parochial schools were OK if these five points are met:


the program must have a valid secular purpose,
aid must go to parents and not to the schools,
a broad class of beneficiaries must be covered,
the program must be neutral with respect to religion, and
there must be adequate nonreligious options.

Who pays for it? Hey I have nothing against private schools or charter schools. None at all, but its been my experience that the waiting lists are greater than the number of seats to be filled. Even with a voucher from the government, state local, or federal, who gets into the school, and who pays for it? Indiana has been moving in that direction for years, as small rural communities are well served by private schools, but areas that have large urban populations like Milwaukee, just cannot give out enough vouchers, and the raising on the wage limits of the voucher is what puts large urban populations at a considerable disadvantage, voucher or NOT.

Indiana is doing it much different than Wisconsin, and I give Mitch some props on his approach. Wish Walker would talk to Daniels, he could learn much.

So I guess its okay to subsidize through state funds, well to do kids and poorer urban kids get left out. That's what the whole fight is about. To be sure though, I think that private schools, the more, the better will indeed change the current public school model that has failed us, but again it comes down to who pays, and who gets the opportunity.

Unless it's a level playing field, and its NOT, its just another avenue of denying whole populations (urban minorities mostly) a chance at quality educations to escape the poverty that holds them back. Okay give everyone a voucher, do away with public schools but the question still is who pays for it? Who benefits? Who decides and how who fills limited seating?

Fix the public schools, you save far more money. And you have to have someplace for the majority of kids to go when the seats are filled. There will be many, trust me I know how this works. Been there, done that, still doing it.

Good job people of Wisconsin ! You made the right call yesterday!

Also quite glad Walker won... it goes to show there is hope yet for that state.

The left is obviously in denial today.

Ed Schultz is not taking it well.

Ed Schultz's WI Eulogy: If This Is A Template "I Believe It's Some Pretty Damn Scary Stuff" (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/greghengler/2012/06/06/ed_schultzs_wi_eulogy_if_this_is_a_template_i_beli eve_its_some_pretty_damn_scary_stuff)

http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Ed-schultz-MSNBC.jpg

I'm not able and not allowed to type what I think about that clueless loudmouth blowhard... I can only hope he has a stroke.

Not sure where to post this, intimidation thread, war on women thread...


Liberal Wisconsinite on Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch: ‘Hopefully the colon cancer will take her before we get her’ (http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/05/liberal-wisconsinite-on-lt-gov-rebecca-kleefisch-hopefully-the-colon-cancer-will-take-her-before-we-get-her/#ixzz1x2DUwkb5)

With the Wisconsin recall election in full swing Tuesday, the roving video patrols of Revealing Politics, a new conservative political website, were in the Badger State talking to voters. Journalist Christian Hartsock caught one bandana-clad liberal protester on camera in the capital city of Madison, threatening Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch.

“Run, get the f**k out of the state,” he advised the lieutenant governor … We’re coming after her anyway, so it doesn’t freaking matter anyway, win or lose.”

Asked what protesters would do with Kleefisch if they found her, he answered, “I don’t know, hopefully the colon cancer will take her before we get her.”

Yep, nothing like a little more violence and hatred toward women from the left.

Don't gloat too much righties, as maybe Walker survived but he has a new legislature to deal with that won't just rubber stamp his policies like the last one did. He may have to negotiate in good faith rather than lay down the law as he did before.

Or maybe they can just lay off state workers and teachers instead next time... which would have been the alternative. At least they all kept their jobs under his plan (you would think they would have been happy about that)... and what's wrong with State employees having to have the same benefits the average taxpayer (who is where their wages come from) has to live with?

If we can only make the Congress.. enate and White house do it too.

but he has a new legislature to deal with
The Senate is out of session ;and he won because the people like his policies . Turns out that the noise in the capitol during the rowdy demonstrations were the fringe.

Have you forgotten the republicans who LOST their recall challenges? Do the math Tom. He no longer holds enough votes to push his agenda without negotiating.

That's cool while they finish investigating him, what you forgot his legal defense fund. That didn't go away with yesterdays election.

Yeah the Dems plan on doing to him like they did to Palin. I have heard nothing that links him to the investigations . So Sgt Schultz at MSNBC is just blowing hot air.
Like I said ;the legislature is no longer in session. When they come back ,the redistricting will have taken place and some of the Dems are losing their seats . That's just a fact. So all they have left is the threat of corruption charges