Hi what is the best way to apologise to an ex and get her talking to you, if she is ignoring you.

I was horrible and want to make up for it! But she is not speaking, ignores my mail and texts. I have sent a mail saying I was wrong and apologised but it does not make a difference.

Surly if someone is admitting there wrong that should count for something?

Women, your hard to understand ? Please help.

Sorry to be blunt but... you have already apologized by mail. Now... leave her alone. She obviously isn't ready to talk to you.

My ex did this and it ANNOYED the heck out of me. The more he tried to contact me... the more annoyed with him I got! Seriously!

My advice... leave her alone. She will talk to you when she is ready to.

Give her time to find it in herself to forgive you. You have apologized and made it clear
That you are sorry. Give her a little space without having your incoming messages floating in her head.

I would maybe recommend, one more note to her. Just so your going silent, all of a sudden, is not misinterpreted by her. Send her one more BRIEF note, letting her know that you still are sorry and you want to give her the space she needs to understand. To just go quiet all of a sudden may not give the right impression and may fuel her being upset even more.

But after that, you have to stick to it and give her space. Hard to do, but it is important.

Sorry you are in the dog house.

Hey.. you answered my post so I'm answering yours... What kind of girl is she.. is she a compassionate person.. understanding heart?? What did you do that she is now your ex?? Did you guys mutually break up.. Were you the one to break it off?? If she is not responding, she is probably either annoyed... or she is trying to figure things out.. I do think that she is thinking about you and probably thinking about the situation... If you want to be romantic about it... and also what I would like if this were me... Just go to see her... show up at her door... flowers and the works... write down what u want to say first on a piece of paper and need be, bring it with you... wear your heart on her sleeve... tell her what it is about her that makes you want her back... but you have to trust in yourself and tell her that you are going to give 100% to the relationship to fix things and have her forgive you... There is a possibility that she will not care, but if you do it sincerely and the right way, I think you will work things out... YOu are the man... you must step up to the plate... Emails are dumb.. they are just typing words.. even though most of us could get thoughts out better this way... they are still just informal.. you need to see her face to face... In my situation, I wrote the emails while he didn't call for days... but I did it so I would be in his head and he would think of me... and I'm sure in your case.. she is... Now, I just have to wait for him... remember... me... the one with the bipolar boyfriend... :)

Onlineguy,
I am not sure what you did to hurt her or how you went about apologizing, but it is very apparent that you have let it be known you are sorry.. she knows.
If you continue to push at her you are going to annoy her and she will never come around.
You really need to give her space to let her think things through. Whatever happened between you is obviously enough to break things off and have her ignoring you- so she needs time to adapt to these changes and figure out how she will deal with them.

If you keep apologizing and asking for a response she is going to get fed up and just walk away completely... if she has not already. The most mature thing you can do is let her be. Don't put any more pressure on her, and hopefully she will come around and talk to you again.

I know girls can be confusing, but always remember it goes both ways. Its human nature to not always understand another person... we are all different and we all handle situations differently. That is just something you must get used to and respect... the more you can respect other peoples responses the better you will understand them.

Best of luck!

SINGLE4 answered your question perfectly. Leave her alone.

Maybe contact her ONCE in SIX months.

What don't you get about annoying? Believe me from my many experiences you can never CONVIENCE an ex to like you again... once you MOVE on thye may come back - but only then.

Give her some time to forgive you.. Time may mean months as Wildcat suggests.

The damage is done, more damage will be created if you try to push her to forgive you.

Time is a good healer in most cases.

I've tried everything in the book to get certain EXs back - only thing that worked was time.

Dang, every answer here is perfect, well except for one!!

You also need to understand that they are ex's for a reason.

Yes, we are women, we are hard to understand, well, men are hard for women to understand too. LOL

Anyway, apparently you did something to hurt her and she is ready for No Contact.

If I were her, I would feel like I was being stalked. If I want out of a relationship I do not want contact from the other person so that I have time to heal. You are not giving her time to heal by emailing and whatever.

You need to understand that she may never want to get back together, but that is her choice and nothing you can do will change her mind. I never got back with any of my ex's and the reason being was that there was too much past to begin a new future. She may feel the same.

You can never go back and change the past, what is done is done. Although there may be forgiveness, it will remain in her memory.

I definitely think that you should give her time... I don't mean go knocking on her door tomorrow... but when it comes to that point or if it does, you should do it... I just say that because you might regret how you feel later... not the best advice I guess since someone said all the answers but "mine" apparently were perfect... but everyone is different and when it comes to love, sometimes you just have to take a chance... kind of like what you told me... at least maybe then you will have some kind of closure. I say you give her plenty of time and then make your last move.

Yep, yeah, right. She could be with another man and that man could open the door, then it would open up a whole new can of worms.

Just give her space, leave her alone, she will come to you if she wants to. You already made an apology and made your feelings known. Now it is time to make a life of your own, as she has already done.

She will come to you if and when she wants to.

The only thing you can hope for by no contact is shemay miss you and think you were sincere.

But you didn't give us details of the break why?

Yes..

What was it that you realise you were wrong for.

What did you say/do?

There are different degrees of what is considered wrong and this will dicatate what degree of forgiveness that is required.

More info..

Women, your hard to understand ?


They are not so hard to understand, if you take the time to listen, and communicate properly. Without real communication, and listening, everyone is hard to understand, male or female.

Learn this and you will be better equipped to deal with situations like this.

I have followed the advise given about not keeping in touch, (This no contact) but to be honest I can't see how this lets the person know you want them back. Or want to win back there love. It appears to give the opposite impression. That you don't give a **** about them.

I can see about not driving them further away, by backing off and giving them space, but surly no contact just leaves them not thinking about you and meeting someone else. What's the point in that !

That's not an expression of love, wanting to be with someone!! It's the opposite - your saying to her I don't want to be with you - I am moving on, looking for another.

That's not the impression I want to portray??


DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO GO ABOUT WINNING BACK AN EX OR IS THIS JUST NOT POSSIBLE ?

HAS ANYONE ACTUALLY DONE THIS AND HOW?


(Sorry if this sounds harsh, but all the stories on here are repeating the same thing, none of them give an answer).

No Contact is not about getting someone back in your life, it's about cutting them out and getting on with your life and your healing. You're completely right, and that's the way it's supposed to be. If someone dumps you then you should move on because they obviously don't care about you anymore. That's what No Contact is about.

Winning back an Ex is possible, but if they dumped you there must be a reason, and unless that thing has genuinely changed, I see not much of a reason to go back. Find someone who will love you for who you are.

There's a lot of good answers and truth in the answers you received in your other post, please read them and take note.

Maybe others will have advice to share about winning someone back.

As Capunchin already said... NC needs to be about making yourself better for now. You have to genuinely work on yourself and everything around you will fall into place. After being dumped the last thing your ex wants to see is you running back to them as the same poor pathetic person you were before... b/c they are smart enough to know you two will inevitably fall back into the same rut.

First you have to prove to work on yourself and become more confident and positive and just disapper for a while. If your ex really cares for you, she will reach out soon enough to see how have you been. If you can SHOW (not TELL) someone that you are fine without them, that often makes you more attractive to that person. People always want what they can't have. Make yourself unavailable and use this time to become the best YOU that you can be.

Believe me I know it's hard staying away, but it's the best thing you can right now for yourself and your relationship. Always make sure you BE the new you... don't tell someone you have changed, you have to show it. Let them figure it out on their own... it's the only way.

I can see about not driving them further away, by backing off and giving them space, but surly no contact just leaves them not thinking about you and meeting someone else. Whats the point in that !

The ex who dumps you wants you out of their life for a reason, so you give that to them. Contacting the ex will only prolong your pain and prevent you from moving on. This is why No Contact is spread around as valuable advice on this website. No contact is not a way to win back the ex. It is true that an ex is more likely to miss you if you stay out of contact, that is true.

The relationship though was broken for a reason. Unless major changes have been made by both parties in the relationship, any hope of successful reconciliation is sadly not possible. Both would just fall back into the same patterns again and this would result in another break-up.


I can see about not driving them further away, by backing off and giving them space, but surly no contact just leaves them not thinking about you and meeting someone else. Whats the point in that !

Perhaps they need to meet someone else to make comparisons and become aware of what it is they really want. Maybe they will realise that their new partner is what they want.

What you must do though is begin the process of moving on and forget the idea of winning the ex back through staying out of contact. It will prevent you from finding that special person who can appreciate you for who you are and not what they want you to be at this point in their life.

I hope this advice helps you. I will keep an eye on your thread and see if I can add anything more to it.

You still didn't tell us the reason for the breakup!
How come?

?? I don't get it !

I agree with what you are saying about space and healing and all. But when I have finished a girl and there is no feelings there, I don't give a damm if she is in a good place or a bad place, or if she contactS me or not. So why should my ex give a damm about me !

So presuming that there is no feeling or little feeling there from her, and mine is how do you get her back to having feelings ? WIN BACK HER LOVE !

HOW DOES NO CONTACT ACHIEVE THIS ? (it just gives her the impression, well he obviously did not care that much, so why should I - I will just find someone else).

We fell out over an agruement over ex's. And I was horrible. Regret it now like.

Like I said, No Contact does not even try to accomplish this. It's a strategy to save yourself heartache and improve your wellbeing, to help you be a better person and move on with your life. It doesn't help you get someone back.

It may occasionally be a side effect through you becoming a better person. But winning someone back is not the objective of no contact.

Of course she will just find someone else... this is why she dumped you.

So wait for 2 months and then you can call her for a coffee.

Did you apologize to her before you began the 'no contact'?

Yes but In a lame arrogant man way!. lol.

She probably expects me to go with the first lass who comes along, but isn't that what she will be doing. Or why end it ?

If no one else in her sites then she would have sorted out the problems in the relationship !

Yes but In a lame arogant man way ! .... lol.

She probably expects me to go with the first lass who comes along, but isn't that what she will be doing. Or why end it ?

If no one else in her sites then she would of sorted out the problems in the relationship !

I don't understand your point.
Yes she will be doing that, because she dumped you to get on with her life without you.

There's no point sorting out the problems in the relationship if you realise this person isn't the person you want to be with anymore.

Yes but In a lame arogant man way ! .... lol.

She probably expects me to go with the first lass who comes along, but isn't that what she will be doing. Or why end it ?

If no one else in her sites then she would of sorted out the problems in the relationship !

I believe that the mature way to deal with this kind of situation would have been to try and resolve through communication. Yes, a real apology would have been good but it does take two to work on problems in a relationship. It is a cowards way out of a relationship to just end it an run without trying to work out a sensible resolution to the problem. That is only to say if the relationship is actually valuable to both parties. If one feels that the relationship has less meaning to them, then ending it would be the best option for both concerned. If this is the case and there has been no discussion of separation with possible reconciliation, then it is better as Val suggests above to consider the relationship over for good.

No contact is then about healing and improving yourself for the next relationship with someone who will appreciate you for who you are.

Yes I agree with Geoff also and think you should have apologized properly before going into no contact... maybe you should try once more and then go back to no contact.

I kind of feel that before going to no contact its good to have expressed all you need to say so that you have no regrets...

With respect. None of this answers my question

I have done the no contact, healed and given her space.

What I want to do now is win her back, make her feel special and loved. Make her want me above all others.

How do I do this ?

With respect. None of this answers my question

I have done the no contact, healed and given her space.

What I want to do now is win her back, make her feel special and loved. Make her want me above all others.

How do I do this ?

I suppose the first thing would be to show her how sorry you really are. If she knows you are sincerely sorry, then this will be a positive move to winning her back. How much space have you given her? 1 month, 2 months?

How much contact have you made? Have you e-mailed her? Texted her? Called? In this time. If this is true, then this does not count as space as she would have felt under pressure from your need for constant updates as to what is happening.

Why were you both arguing over ex's in the first place? What relevance does your history and her history have to do with the present?

You need to ask yourself if there is more to this break-up than just simply an argument. You must look at this first otherwise taking any action to winning her back is not going to work.

I'm sorry if this seems a bit blunt but it is my best opinion based on what you have wrote so far.

<<I have done the no contact, healed and given her space. >>

6 days is not enough!!

<<Why were you both arguing over ex's in the first place? What relevance does your history and her history have to do with the present?
>>

Exactly, tell us all the details!!

You may be asking the impossible. You can't make her want you. You can't make her come back. You can't stop her from dating someone else. She will come back only if it is something that she has thought about and something that she wanted to do anyway. She will had to have missed you and somehow realized that you are valuable in her life and doesn't want to let you go. She needs to want to reconcile too... something that she will have to feel on her own. Again, you can't make her feel that either.

If no contact has done nothing for you, your only other choices are to contact her with something very casual or even perhaps another apology, wait and hope she contacts you on her own and be open to talking with her, or to forget her. Didn't you mention in another one of your threads that she won't return your calls or emails? If she still won't reply if you try to contact her again, there is unfortunately not much else you can do to get her back without looking like a stalker in her eyes. You will just push her further and further away. You may need to give her some time to get over her anger before you try to contact her again.

There are no guaranteed ways to get an ex back. Everyone here is trying to give you ideas, but if we had the answers, none of us would be going through the heartaches that we are in right now either. We all wish we had the magic formula to get an ex back. There simply are no guarantees or one answer that works in any given case of a breakup.

<<What I want to do now is win her back, make her feel special and loved. Make her want me above all others. >>


What others?

yes i agree with Geoff also and think you should have apologized properly before going into no contact...maybe you should try once more and then go back to no contact.

i kind of feel that before going to no contact its good to have expressed all you need to say so that you have no regrets...


Maybe you should try this option and then go back to no contact. It is always good to leave things on a nicer note than a sour, bitter one. It's no guarantee that this will win her back as you suggest.

I am not even sure if you can WIN her back, she needs to want to come back. You can make improvements to yourself though to make this more of a possibility but you should really be thinking more along the lines of 'she is gone forever' because one day you may be forced to accept this.

I know it is hard mate, I completely relate to why you are asking this question but remember that there is also a chance that she may move on for good herself and that eventually you might need to.

Start by talking to her. See where she stands with working things out with you. If she is not into it then there is no reason to continue trying.

Sorry about that, I worded it wrongly.

We argued over her cheating on an ex who is a canny lad, with a lad who is not so canny !
(without going into detail. I disaproved and made her feel bad about this).

I know I was wrong and have said that, its past and all. But I took my feeling of dislike for another out on her. She knows all of this.

Any way. Its not that I want to win her back like a prize or a trophy.

I care about her, love her and want to make her happy. I want to treat her well and make her feel special, important and loved. (Romantic sloppy sod)...

But if the girl is ignoreing me, how the hell do I do this without as someone said appearing a pest.

With respect. None of this answers my question

I have done the no contact, healed and given her space.

What I want to do now is win her back, make her feel special and loved. Make her want me above all others.

How do I do this ?
As I see it, each of you had your chance at much of this in the first go-around. And then something went wrong. Now if you don't specifically take care of whatever it is that went wrong, you won't get back to loving each other again. And it takes the both of you being willing to honestly and responsibly go after what went wrong. It's that simple. That you came to where you ended it says to me not everyone was willing here to go after what went wrong. So there is your answer. There is no way to win someone back while bypassing what went wrong-- if THAT were possible, holy cow, then all kinds of people would be doing it and posting here exactly how they did!

Frankly, if its worth breaking up over, its worth staying broken up over. The chance to fix what went wrong has come and gone. Anyone else telling you differently is holding out false hope to you that I consider not grounded in reality. So far I have only seen one person here willing to use NC as an opportunity to change and then go back and try to win her by demonstrating the change and the jury is still out on how well that works because he hasn't returned to her yet. I think I know the odds on that working already and said so on his thread. To use NC as some kind of very casually arranged separation without any terms meant to better the realationship without an actual agreement from both parties is as fantasyland as it comes, in my book. Or the work of game players. Take your pick. I mean, come on... how are you to even know what went wrong if you aren't TALKING ABOUT IT?? I am sorry to confirm what you suspected all along -- there is no secret magic fix. I'm sorry for your loss. That is my answer and I stand by it.

Did ye actually break up or ye just had a fight and she is ignoring you now?

Did ye actually break up or ye just had a fight and she is ignoring you now??
He called her his "ex" from the beginning. If that isn't a break up then I don't know what words mean anymore. LOL

Cheers I appreciate the replies.

Yes there was problems and I know them, she knows them and I am prepared to do what ever is necasary to sort them out.

But when I first liked her I showed an interest in her in a nice friendly way then when I liked her and thought she felt the same I asked her out.

What I am trying to do is get back to that stage. So that for want of a better word I can woo her again. (lame word, but sounds better than seduce).

No contact has helped me heal. I am not chasing after her or depsperate for her.

But my query is, if I am observing full no contact, how do I get to the stage of getting her to see the real me and like me again ?

Ill copy this advice someone (I think skell or wildcat wrote)

If it has been 2-3 months you could give them a quick call just to say hi. Make it a fun and light conversation.. LISTEN to her though.

Ask how they have been, what they are up to?

Make her LAUGH.. You are the FUN guy she had a great relationship with.

Your not ringing her to ask about getting back together, what went wrong, no begging, no pleading, no pressure etc etc...

You are calling simply to say hi and see how everything has been.

OVERALL it should be a light, fun and easy going chat...

After about 10 minutes or so you should end the call. Your in control.

Everything in your life is great. Things are going good. You have friends everywhere, your life is on track. Basically you Don't NEED HER for your life to be good.

I wouldn't even ask to meet her yet...

1 simple call so she can hear your voice. The fun guy she used to love... It might make her miss you.

Yes there was problems and I know them, she knows them and I am prepared to do what ever is necasary to sort them out.

Its good that you are willing. Knowing that there are problems is a good start. However its important to speak accurately when dealing with them. There ARE problems, not was. And you might ask her if she is willing to sort them out with you. If she says no, then its over... just like Tuscany said five posts back. There is no other successful way that I know of or have seen listed here. So far, I am the only one who has posted here who experienced a relationship coming apart and then back together again successfully. I am currently still in that very relationship too. It takes certain things to make that work out, as far as I am concerned. Its just how it is. Those who believe in NC as a means to get an ex back don't ever seem to post here how it actually worked out for getting back together. We all have been waiting for the rest of that story for some time now, in all fairness. That its so conspiciously absent from here speaks volumes to me, as it should to us all.

If I knew the anaswer to getting an ex back, I would be very rich : ) There is no real answer, and sometimes you just have to ride things out and see what happens. I have done no contact and contact. It looks now like he has gone for good. I have to try and get my head round this. I know it's hard, but you have to try and put the thoughts of getting them back to the back of your mind, and eventually I have been told, we will stop thinking of them.

So

At the end of a relationship tell the person you do not wish to end, you want to be together and sort out the problems between you. But you will respect her decision and leave her be, go no contact until you are not emotionaly hurting / desperate for her.

Then initate contact (possibility of her having moved on). And start from scratch, having learned by yourself the reason for the break up.?

Is this what is required??

((( seems like an awful lot of heartache and pain which could have been avioded by talking to each other in the first place!))).

((( seems like an awful lot of heartache and pain which could of been avioded by talking to each other in the first place!))).
LOL Now you're getting it! Yeah, that is my point exactly. People who want to stay together talk and work it out. The one who leaves is saying essentially "I don't want to work it out." Now if you want to try and challenge that and manipulate them into changing their minds, be my guest. But here is the rub to that --- I have yet to see that work out in the real world. And I have watched a lot too. What usually takes place is they get back together only to break up again. And back together and break again, until one of them gets sick of all those games. You know that is true cos' you've seen that yourself too! If you BOTH won't deal with what is REALLY wrong, then you get what you get. And all the strategy and tactics in the world won't circumvent that one bit.

Here is my bottom line and I offer it to you as food for thought: What in the real world tells you that you'll be able to work it out with someone who hurts you so badly and, regardless of your pain, thinks that is an okay way to tell you that the relationship needs work? I suggest you look closely at the real world and notice what it says about that... and if you're not sure, I can translate for you in very plain, make perfect sense english.

The first thing is to discover the reason why she left in the first place. Then you need to know what she is looking for in her mate. Once you know what she is seeking then you can see if it is possible for you to win her back. You can not change who you are so who you are has to fit what's she is looking for. Trying to change to some one you are not will only mean she will leave again

Sometimes, when you truly love someone, you must find the strength to let them go and realise that not being in a relationship together is what is best for the both of you in the long term.

Be prepared for the pain you will experience throughout this process but feel comfort in the knowledge that you will get through it and grow into a stronger person because of it.

Don't blame yourself for your mistakes but do learn from them as best you can.

You've already began this process by recognising your mistake, you will be less likely to make the same mistake in the future.

This really sucks! How do I become a monk ?




So

At the end of a relationship tell the person you do not wish to end, you want to be together and sort out the problems between you. But you will respect her decision and leave her be, go no contact untill you are not emotionaly hurting / desperate for her.

Then initate contact (possibility of her having moved on). And start from scratch, having learned by yourself the reason for the break up. ?????

Is this what is required ????

((( seems like an awful lot of heartache and pain which could of been avioded by talking to each other in the first place!))).


So what happens if you did not do no contact straight away and pushed to get back together, pushing her away. She wanted to remain friends whilst she sorted her head out. But emotionaly imature me took this as her stringing me along. I wanted a commitment from her saying that we would be friends with a view to sorting things out or I would find another ! (this was of the advise from a woman at work, who I have since found out likes me... Doh! ).

I messed things up totally...

This really sucks! How do I become a monk ?

So what happens if you did not do no contact straight away and pushed to get back together, pushing her away. She wanted to remain friends whilst she sorted her head out. But emotionaly imature me took this as her stringing me along. I wanted a commitment from her saying that we would be friends with a view to sorting things out or I would find another ! (this was of the advise from a woman at work, who I have since found out likes me....Doh! ).

I messed things up totally.....
See, it isn't all you though. If she really wanted this relationship, she would have stood her ground then and there and negotiated a real live separation with you, instead of a break up. You are right not to be strung along. Very right. That's what the immature and the gamers do, frankly. You tried to invite her to somehow hash out mutually acceptable terms, including a time limit since to leave anyone dangling not knowing is a very unkind thing to do and not right to ask for, not ever. Your instincts were spot on! And she declined.

That she did not do that says she is either just too immature for a relationship or that she gave up already and couldn't/woudn't tell you. In case you think it's the former, should you like to try and go back and arrange a separation now might salvage it. Slim chances though. And again, she has to be willing to agree to the separation and then later you both have to agree to get at exactly what went wrong. This is what counselors negotiate with committed but troubled relationships seeking help-- they orchestrate a mutually agreed separation of sorts and then, with a lot less stress, go at the source. Its hard work too.

Now do you see why this almost never works? Its because its such hard work that one person gives up and decides its so much easier just to get a new partner instead, which is exactly what happens a lot in the real world -- only they don't come right out and say that to you in the end, they can't bear to because it hurts you more and makes them look kind of shallow. That she ended it, instead of taking other options, says she didn't value it to begin with. I am sorry. I really hate how some people end relationships these days -- so "kind" that its actually quite cowardly -- its like they end it with a hint of false hope. That way, as time goes on with NC, by the time you figure out it really IS over, they won't be there to see all the pain they caused you.

While I feel your pain, no one can ease it for you, and as others have said a few days of no contact, is not healing. You are so deep in denial, and still holding out hope for things to get back the way they were. They never will. It takes two healthy people, willing to work to have a healthy relationship and that is not happening between you and your ex. Now you can kick, and scream, and cry, b****h, and moan, all you want, until you get serious about helping yourself, there will be NO help for you at all. Either you accept that this thing is over, and work on you, or you can spin your wheels until the tires fall off. You do what you want, but my advice is to listen to the advice of those who have been there, and have no contact, deal with the pain, and get healthy enough to see things in a clear and rational light. You have a golden oppurtunity here to get it together, so don't blow it for this fantasy you have built on hurt and self pity.

As other have stated - the No Contact is for you to improve yourself. Take a step back and realize where it went wrong. WHY did you push her away??

Did you come across as jealous, insecure, needy? With those tough questions?

My advice always as a guy is to stay away from tough questions for a long time! No tough questions. Be the fun guy always. NO Pressure - pressure pushes women away.

By staying in contact you WILL only annoy them, bother them. You need to give them the "Gift of Missing You" - it's really important.

You can not win back if there was abuse - verbal or physical, cheating (she's cheated in the past - big issue), lying, alcohol or drug abuse.

Quite frankly - IF she cheated on someone else - she may cheat on you. Not sure if you want to be with someone like this any way. If this was the reason for your break - discussing this, then maybe you should move on.

Breaks are learnig experience that will prepare you for your once and true love.

By no contact you give them space to think about things, think about maybe you are a great guy after all - lots of dumbazzes out there.

Win back can generally happen if you improve yourself over time - change - get in better shape, better financial situation, grow, change.

Were you in love with the idea of a relationship and not her?

Agree with Tal and Wildcat.

You are focusing so much on the idea of getting her back that you are in denial of the reality of the situation. I am not suggesting I am any different. I have gone through these feelings and hung on to hope but it really does not serve any positive purpose to getting you on the right track. Like tal says, until you stop doing this and focus on you, there will be no progress. Once the pain becomes less, you will be in a better mental state of mind to analyze the situation in a more healthy way.

I think you need to forget the idea of getting her back for now and focus on what wildcat suggested. Once you have worked on yourself, you may even decide that you don't want her back.

I can tell you that I am 3 1/2 months post breakup and I still feel the pain and there have been many ups and down and perhaps more to come, but I am more focused and I realize more each day that my ex was actually unhealthy for me and the thoughts of wanting her back subside slowly with time.

It will likely be the same for you too. Go out with your friends/family, work hard, study, exercise.

These actions will all help you to begin this process of self-improvement and the process of letting go. Avoid getting into a relationship for a while as this will not help and will likely result in a rebound situation.

You have got the strength to get through this. It may take some time, but you will get there just like I and many others will/have.

They generally don't comeback until you've actually truly moved on.

You need to show that you're life is great with them or with out them. That you don't need them. That you have a great life, love your life, are a fun guy.

People Want What They Can't Have. ALWAYS!! Women end a LOT of relationships early on whe nthe yhave you... for some reason it's no fun for them. Women want a mysterious, busy, FUN, no pressure, lots going for them type guy.

Now do you see why this almost never works? Its because its such hard work that one person gives up and decides its so much easier just to get a new partner instead, which is exactly what happens a lot in the real world -- only they don't come right out and say that to you in the end, they can't bear to because it hurts you more and makes them look kinda shallow. That she ended it, instead of taking other options, says she didn't value it to begin with. I am sorry. I really hate how some people end relationships these days -- so "kind" that its actually quite cowardly -- its like they end it with a hint of false hope. That way, as time goes on with NC, by the time you figure out it really IS over, they won't be there to see all the pain they caused you.


This is exactly spot on, but it really really hurts. She kept saying she did not wish to lose me completely, just wanted to be friends but she loved me ! That's why I was pushing, but this pushed her farther away !

Now she is not speaking and does not wish to know me !

Wildcat
I would agree with you on your statement that women like mysterious man. However, I have to say... as a woman... I dated the mysterious man... but I married the good guy... the one where what you see is what you get. Mystery all the time would be to hard for me to deal with. But it sure is fun for awhile!!

Tuscany - you do not understand term mystery - mystery meaning surprise her, don't spill your guts all at once. Being busy with other things in life - friends, family, work. Slowly revealing yourself.

Mystery is NOT telling her everything like maybe your married or somethng - no. Being mysterious is as easy as NOT calling 5 times a day - e-mailing all day - texting all day!!

GOOD FOR YOU MARRYING THE GOOD GUY!!

The idea to understanding the no contact is - that constantly calling, begging, flowers, cards, notes, telling them how you feel, trying to meet them at their favorite places etc. - only works in the movies.

This is exactly spot on, but it really really hurts. She kept saying she did not wish to lose me completly, just wanted to be friends but she loved me ! Thats why I was pushing, but this pushed her farther away !

Now she is not speaking and does not wish to know me !
Look, if you want to base the fact that its all over on one little action of yours that you seem to think was the only thing that pushed her away in some critical moment then you really are missing the ability to see reality here. I got news -- it does not work that way. She is not speaking to you because... it... is... over... dude.

Even Wildcat said "they don't come back until you've moved on" but here is the rest of that story that is NEVER told... when you do meet again, what compelled you to get together to begin with is SIMPLY NOT THERE anymore and a second round of it is so unlikely to happen. I mean, its like a one in a million shot that you would change and she would change, both in a way that not only overcomes whatever the problem originally was BUT also manages to create two new people who would be sooo attracted to each other that they toss verifiable caution to the wind and fall in love all over again. The reality is this: That barely stands a snowball's chance in hell of happening when a professional like a marriage counselor is involved who can better orchestrate it for that very outcome let alone this spontaneously occurring somehow on its own by two people who know so little about how it all happens to begin with... SHEESH! Are you like starring in your own movie here?

You can get real now and reduce the suffering to what is necessary or continue to play in fantasyland and rack up consequences that come with that, like it or not. Your choice. LOL

I was toying with the idea of sending a wishing you a merry xmas text so that we could be back on comunicating terms. And then get back the attraction. Don't know if this is wise!

Very hard to accept what your saying, evan though I see the wisdom of it. Giving up somehow just does not seem right !

LOL Let me show you how its done... I give up with this here! LOL
I wish you sincere good luck to you in all your adventures. I mean that.

Difficult time ahead. What I want to do is in direct conflict with what I should do!!

That's life I suppose ! I am left dumbfounded by her giving up!

Yes, but some people are just always attracted to each other. AND a guy can create attraction all over again IF he is smooth he enough, makes her laugh, no DUMB questions, is indifferent... but most guys screw this up.

You have to make her rememebr why she was first attracted to you. Most guys screw that up because they get all uptight and actually put too much importance into it in the first place... which...

No text. None. No contact means no cntact.

... which brings us to why you end up in this situation. Putting too much importance into some one too early on... making YOUR interest level much higher than theirs and letting them know about it - not a good idea. You go SLOWLY and a lot of this won't matter as much until your both in love - both in love.

Did I say go slow?? Most people end up with heartache because they don't go slow!!

Go slow!!

Cheers for all your help. I have a lot to think about. I will continue no contact, I am still mixed up so now is not the right time to act on my emotions or make decisions. Learnt that much at least... lol.


I will keep you all informed of any changes.

Cheers for all your help. I have a lot to think about. I will continue no contact, i am still mixed up so now is not the right time to act on my emotions or make desicions. Learnt that much at least .... lol.


I will keep you all informed of any changes.


Good man... that's the best lesson I learned. Keep calm and be very slow and rational about your thoughts and actions, or you will regret your actions later. Make the best possible decisions for YOU at this point.

If you like things well thought out and rational, then do the numbers...

Out of the hundreds of people posting here:
How many times have we heard NC wins them back? 1 (it had unusual circumstances, its still new & iffy at best, its clearly a long hard journey)
How many times have we heard winning someone back works out in the long run? 0
How many times have we heard that when ex's reunite, it ends anyway? 4 (2 are Wildcat's which puzzles me why he advocates it so strongly!)
How many times have we heard about salvaging a ruined relationship? 1 (but it clearly stated that breaking up wasn't involved, only seperating)

The experience people appear to be having is--- when you're broken up, its either permanently or ought to be.
Granted everyone likes to think their circumstances are unique and "oh, but you don't know how truly special our love is" but numbers do talk here.
And I am not saying it couldn't happen and work out happily but SHEESH look at the odds! Don't you think you better know absolutely everything there is to know about what it takes to make it work with odds like that? So if I were you, take a guess who I'd be hitting up for that info... There, is that rational enough for you? LOL

Val-
I could not spread the Rep... but right on! Great post

Hi Guys, I did it and sent a text saying that I hope she was well, pity it did not work out for us and just to wish her a very merry xmas and happy new year.

It did not make any difference, received no reply.

I guess the sense of failure is hard to deal with, all this caused by a misunderstanding. She was just not prepared to listen. Funny but I feel used and cheated...

I GUESS THE ANSER TO THIS POST IS YOU can't GET THEM BACK. ONCE THEY SAY ITS OVER YOU SHOULD WALK AWAY 100% FULL NO CONTACT.

Makes you want to remain single!!

Is being single worse for guys or girls ?

I don't want to make you feel any more down than you do now, but I think sending the text was a bad choice. I think the only reason you did it is because you are scared that she may be forgetting you and moving on with her life. That's OK and all very natural. Believe me, this has crossed my mind too and I have thought about doing it but luckily thought twice about it and decided it would be a very bad idea. My life is about me now and I and many others in this situation just have to pack up and move on.

It was a nice thought but now you are going to be upset that she does not reply, which I am willing to place a high bet on that she won't... You see, you have set yourself up to be hurt again without even realizing what you have done and I can already sense that you are a bit down hearted having not received a reply from her.

Never mind, what is done is done. Just go back to no contact now for good and try and work on Moving On! It is hard but you will get through it...

I must reiterate:- By contacting her in any way, you will be debilitating your own healing and moving on, you will be taking steps backwards rather than forwards. This is why No Contact has nothing to do with winning the ex back because it really has nothing to do with that... No contact is all about you and healing yourself.

How can you do that if you are contacting her?

It did not make any difference, recieved no reply.

What difference did you expect it to make?

You chase, they run!

This proved that you have taken one further desperate attempt to show her that you still care for her and want her.

It shows that you are still there for her, waiting!!

It won't serve the purpose you want it to.

I'm saying what I am saying onlineguy because I care and don't want you to fall back and get hurt because I know how the pain feels. I am not judging you but just trying to guide you in the right direction..

Well the text was nice.A nice way to end things in any case.

Now I guess you can start to forgive her and forget...

Being single is not bad at all.Its different. I'm a girl by the way.

Why are you so worried about being single?

It's a great time to focus on you, do what you want ,whenever you want.

Being is bad for neither. No one HAS to be in a relationship just for the sake of being in a relationship.

There is nothing wrong with being single, I spent 5 years being single and I had a great time. In fact, had I not had this time to myself, I may not be the man I am today. It is a time for you to explore yourself, who you are and what you want. I met my now ex when I was 23 and spent 3 years with her, again it was a great experience albeit I was left heartbroken by the recent break-up I had with her. Now I am single again and I am free to work on me and other areas of my life. You should not need to be in a relationship to be complete.

You should make yourself complete as a person first and then a relationship is an add on. Actually, this will also be a fine recipe for a healthy balanced relationship too.

Being single gives you a chance to better know yourself. Often when we are in a long term relationship we begin to define ourselves by our partner (not intentionally and not that that is a bad thing necessarily). I often look forward to when my husband is away, not because I don't love him, but because it gives me a chance to be alone with me for awhile. That is why it is so important that couples do things separately as well as together. My husband and I take Thursday nights... he goes out with the guys and I do something with the girls.

Is being single worse for guys or girls ?

It's a great time for both man and woman actually and you can have all the fun you can handle. Your question suggest something negative about the single life, Am I wrong?

Sadly I think you sent that text with the wrong purposes in mind and now you are paying the painful price of not getting what you sought.

Sorry for that,m and I'm sorry for your pain, I just hope you have learnt the lessons that have been so painfully thrust upon you!

Normally when to people part they do not remain on a friendly basis.

The dumper is releaved and happy that the relationship is over, they will happily move on to the next relationship.

However the dumpee is left with all the negative feelings about the relationship. The hurt, sense of failure etc. the lonliness, loss of something of value.

It is generally the dumpee who does the running to save the realationship, the depsperate stage we all go through. Or if they are sensible they will do the no contact from day one.

My question is this.

If No contact from day 1 or you make the effort to get the relationship back are the negative feelings at the end the same ?

If they are then is it best to try to part on good terms, bad terms or terms that are best for you ?

It doesn't matter as long as you accept that the relationship is over. Then do what it takes you to heal and move on. Not easy, we ALL know that but so necessary.

Talaniman said it all:

1. ACCEPT IT'S OVER, no matter what your heart might tell you.

2. Grieve, you have lost an important part of your life, you must allow time for this step or you'll never get over the ex.

3. Move on... long process that for some never really ends, but you will become a fully functional person again, open to new experiences and relationship

I don't think the feelings for an ex you truly loved ever go away, but by using NC, you can dull the stabbing pain of loss

I always think it is a good thing to leave things on good terms but that's not always how it turns out.

It does not really matter, like tal says you need to accept that it is over for good.

Actually, if you are questioning how you have left things, then maybe you have not truly accepted it is over because if you had, then you probably would not care how you left it, you would just put it down to experience..

Being rejected like this onlineguy is a tough and very painful experience but it is a time to become strong and acceptance is a VERY big factor here.

I don't think the feelings for an ex you truly loved ever go away, but by using NC, you can dull the stabbing pain of loss

This is why we use No Contact..

Not to win them back but to get healthy and move on!

Look at it this way... You will have learned some valuable lessons in life especially if this is the first time you have been dumped and especially if this was for you, true love..

Love will find you again, yet if you lose it again then at least second time around, you will be much better equipped to deal with it. If you can pull through it having not gone through it before, then 2nd time it will be easy peasy :) , well it will still hurt but like I say, you will be better equipped.

To put all of this into perspective, think of it as a chapter in you life that was beautiful, it had it's ups and downs but you will remember the fond memories of the love you both had. Love will always be there for the one you lost but that does not mean you cannot find it again through someone else.

Also, the next chapter need not include love or relationships, well it can include love but love for oneself and for LIFE..

There are so many things we take for granted that we don't realise what we really have. I think opening your eyes to all the suffering and pain there is in the world is in itself an eye opener and in doing so, it brings you to realise that what you have is good and your loss whilst it may seem significant, in the big scheme of things, it really is not.

It can't be said enough that the NC rule should not be used as a tool to get an ex back. It's sole purpose is to help yourself. After months of no contact it doesn't hurt as much, after years it's a distant memory. You can't possibly stay in love with someone who is no longer in your life in any way, shape or form. It works, that's why it's promoted so much.

It can't be said enough that the NC rule should not be used as a tool to get an ex back. It's sole purpose is to help yourself. After months of no contact it doesn't hurt as much, after years it's a distant memory. You can't possibly stay in love with someone who is no longer in your life in any way, shape or form. It works, that's why it's promoted so much.

I have a question..
Taking into account what you said above, don't you still carry the love inside.. I mean if you truly did love them, then it might not hurt anymore when you have moved on but would you carry that love inside anyway and always love them?

I think that if you make the effort to get the relationship back the negative feelings at the end are all the worse because the dumpee is then left with the additional anger and regret that his/her efforts to salvage the relationship didn't work. You definitely want to part on whatever terms are best for you and usually that means having no more contact, just letting them go and getting on with your life with the other person no longer a part of it.

Hi Geoff, when I said you can't stay in love with them I meant to the extent of that person being a part of your life, together with the feelings that being 'in love' bring.

Yes I still carry that love and always will, I know that now. What I was trying to do in the beginning was to stop loving him in the hope it would stop hurting. I've now learned that I have to accept that I will always love him, stop denying my own feelings but not to let my feelings effect my future happiness.

I have just downloaded and activated msn. Only to find that my ex and her friend have still kept my email details.

My ex asked me to leave her alone, which is what I have done. So why keep my details?


Every time she is online I will know and so will she. So should I delete and block her from MSN ?

She has messengered me and we are having a polite and general conversation, its killing me though ! I would love to be back together, but I dare not mention it.

So should I delete and block her from MSN ?


She wants you to leave her alone so do it and delete the MSN. Why toture yourself with the polite conversation when you know you want more?

Hi there. I have just started talking to my ex on msn, but she is very distant and cold. Understandable as I had hurt her.

I just don't know how to proceed without pushing her away. Any suggestions?

The conversations are very brief, with her ending them to watch TV !

Send her one last message that leaves the ball in her court. Something about how you would like to hear from her again. But then do not initiate anymore contact. I believe others on this site call it the no contact rule. It seems to make sense to me.

If you have hurt her then chances are she needs time to heal. If you continue to contact her she will not be given the time she needs to heal. Step away and give her time, but let her know that when she is ready you would like to talk. Leave it at that, and wait until she comes to you.

Send her one last message that leaves the ball in her court. Something about how you would like to hear from her again. But then do not initiate anymore contact. I believe others on this site call it the no contact rule. It seems to make sense to me.

If you have hurt her then chances are she needs time to heal. If you continue to contact her she will not be given the time she needs to heal. Step away and give her time, but let her know that when she is ready you would like to talk. Leave it at that, and wait until she comes to you.


Thank you for your help, we are just talking after a period of no contact. I am trying to rebuild the relationship, but I don't know the best way to proceed without pushing her away.

It takes two to tango. YOU cannot rebuild the relationship, she has to participate in the process as well. It sounds to me like she's not ready to do that. I'd send a message saying how sorry you are for what you did, and you're interested in making it up to her, but if she doesn't want it you'll understand. Leave the ball in her court and tell her if she has something to say you're listening, but you're not going to force yourself on her.

Hi there. I have just started talking to my ex on msn, but she is very distant and cold. Understandable as I had hurt her.

I just dont know how to proceed without pushing her away. Any suggestions?

The conversations are very brief, with her ending them to watch tv !

Stop being scared and leave her alone to watch TV. Find a life without her.

Why are you contacting her at all?

Why are you contacting her at all?


I had observed a period of no contact, I let her know I would like to be on speaking terms. I was on MSN and was very surprised that she had not deleted my emial details, but I did not initiate the contact, she messengered me and said hi.

I was just friendly and polite, passed the needy stage, and did not mention about us or the relationship.

I would like to try to build a new relationship with this woman. But I really do not know the best way to proceed without pushing her further away. What I don't want to do is be in a position of bugging her.

Any advice ?

I had observed a period of no contact, I let her know I would like to be on speaking terms. I was on MSN and was very suprised that she had not deleted my emial details, but I did not initiate the contact, she messengered me and said hi.

I was just friendly and polite, passed the needy stage, and did not mention about us or the relationship.

I would like to try to build a new relationship with this woman. But I really do not know the best way to proceed without pushing her further away. What I don't want to do is be in a position of bugging her.

Any advice ?

Well I think since she contacted you first last time I would kind of play it by ear so to speak. If she contacts you and just says "hello" then answer back "hello, how are you?" If she doesn't answer that don't push any further. If she answers then reply to what she says. But don't go overboard and control or over rule the coversation. Let her guide it and answer according to what she says. But that's all. Perhaps over time she'll become more comfortable and you can talk in greater detail and about more topics. But if you want a relationship, even on the friend level, let her come to you and do it on her terms so she feels comfortable.

<<but I did not initiate the contact, she messengered me and said hi.>>

OK sounds OK, and I agree with Chuff, take it very easy . She said hi , what did you reply exactly?
I think you really annoyed her with your comment about her ex so she is probably having trouble with this, but you have already apologised so no need to mention this again.
So nothing serious, just simple hi's and how are yous for some weeks. Ask her about christmas , tell her some funny presents you got or something that could make her laugh.

Thanks for the advice guys.

I will just try to not put my size 12's in.

I have so much I want to say, but at this stage I guess its all about her and me showing her consideration, which is the thing I didn't in the relationship and why it ended !

I was considering only myself and not her ! Hard to change bad habits and not proud of them !

Yes , you seem quite intelligent anyhow from your other posts and advice you have offered so I'm sure you have a good head on your shoulders.

And no mention of the past again or her past!!

I think you approach this not going in head first, but go slow and have balance in your life, as we forget who we are, and only have one thing in mind, being in love. This pushes our partners away all the time. Spend time doing the things you enjoy without her, and have a full social life, and make sure you find out who you are so you don't lose yourself chasing ghosts and putting too much emphasis on the relationship, when its what you are about thats important. She should be part of a healthy busy life you have, and not your whole life. Change comes with time so go slow, there is no hurry. Take your time and get to know each other again and above all YOU SHOULD BE HAVING FUN.

Online guy, it seems to me that you are dealing with a lot of unresolved issues. I agree with some of these posters that you may have used the no contact rule merely as a way that she would come back to you and left yourself numb to the pain of a breakup and now you believe that you guys should be back together. You have got to get over the fact that although you may change for the best, she just might not come back to notice it. You will want them to see it really badly but the more it pains you that they don't take the time to notice the more that you should realize that you did not change for yourself but yet to please her. All is not lost if she does not look at the new you. If other women are liking the new you then you will realize that it is her loss. Now the main reason for my post. Ex's do come back and you have got to absolutely not care if they come back or not. My old roommate had a girlfriend for 2 years, they got engaged, she gave the ring back a week later and decided to take a break. She started dating other guys, and he was heartbroken but he had a lot of pride and he dated around a little bit, stopped worrying about her so much, went from talking to her every day to only calling her maybe once a week or sometimes months without talking. All I know is just when he had given up hope after a near year debacle she came back to him, they worked it out and have been married for the last two years. So it can be done but you have to be strong. This is not the norm, but I know that success stories are rare on this website and I just wanted to give an example that it does happen. And to me, my friend that got his girl back would never stress it enough in his worst times to beat himself up about the situation and that may be the kind of self strength that in the end would draw a woman back to you.

That's an interesting story copperhead6 about that guy that got back with his ex after a year. I knew a friend years ago who met his wife when they were both young. They split up after 18 months or so the spent a year apart dating others, then they split up again after another year or so, got back together then I heard they got married.. A few months ago, I bumped into him in the city and he said he was married but guess what? Separated as well.. They were a strange couple though, they kept following a pattern of breaking up and getting back together. I believe that it can happen but I have not seen it happen often and there is no guarantee that it will work 2nd time around. For it to work, there needs to be serious changes from both sides. If there is not any change, it won't be long before another breakup happens. It is best to accept that it is over for good rather than hanging onto false hope that you will get back with an ex. In time, you may not even want to get back with the ex if you have truly moved on.

Good afternoon everyone,

An interesting topic : )

I sympathise with having text your ex, and having no reply. You set yourself up for another fall really. I took my ex's mobile no out of my phone in September. Maybe you should do that, hopefully you don't know it off by heart, I don't. It helps.

I text my ex at the start of the break up too, got no response either, he would answer my emails (not all of them) but no texts. Best not to bother believe me. It is not worth it. I remember phoning my ex in September, I was heart broken after it, he sounded really weird on the phone, just like basically saying why are you calling me. It really set me back and I was upset for days.

Please don't beat yourself up over texting, it happens, maybe it has taught you something, take it as a positive : )
Xx

For those who did not see my last post, I was on msn when my ex messengered me. I was polite and friendly, ended the conversation in a nice way.

Following day she was on msn so I messengered her, thought the conversation was going fine, but she mentioned she was poorly and not sleeping. I as a joke said I could help her with sleeping, but it appears as though she took it the wrong way, ended the conversation saying watching telly.

I have since left a msn message asking if she was feeling better, but she has not been on line. And today I sent a text asking if she was feeling better only to be ignored.

She iniated contact on msn, so I thought we were back on speaking terms, but that does not appear to be the case. I am very confused, I don't know if we are speaking, if we are not, or what to say without driving her away ? She is not talking about how she is feeling, so I am 100% in the dark..

I would like to see if we can get back on good terms with a view to seeing if we can get back together, but I have not mentioned this to her yet, as I feel this has to come part way from her.

Any advice, suggestions of how to handle such a person, situation ?

No Contact for 6 months even if she contacts you ignore it and do not contact her back! 6 months, OLG, haven't you had enough yet? Time for a good long break.

Tal, if he wants to get her back, how will ignoring her help him reach that?

OLG, just leave her alone. No need to go begging to apologize. If she took offense to that, let her tell you that directly, then apologize if necessary.

Tal, if he wants to get her back, how will ignoring her help him reach that?


No contact is not ignoring some one, it's a step back to regroup your head and re-evaluate yourself. If what your doing is not working you must consider other tactics, and the best one when it comes to relationships is to back off and have time for your dust to settle and get a more realistic view of yourself and the things you do. Do you really think doing what he is doing will get her back? The goal is not to get her back, but to reassess his own position. Without that realization, he can never see or overcome his own limitations.

No contact is not ignoring some one, its a step back to regroup your head and re-evaluate yourself. If what your doing is not working you must consider other tactics, and the best one when it comes to relationships is to back off and have time for your dust to settle and get a more realistic view of yourself and the things you do. Do you really think doing what he is doing will get her back? The goal is not to get her back, but to reassess his own position. Without that realization, he can never see or overcome his own limitations.

Again agreed 100%..
I agree that No Contact is not ignoring someone, it is simply a way as tal suggests to re-evaluate yourself and work on yourself. IT IS ALSO BY NO MEANS TO BE USED AS A TACTIC TO GET THE EX BACK

<<thought the conversation was going fine, but she mentioned she was poorly and not sleeping. I as a joke said I could help her with sleeping, but it appears as though she took it the wrong way, ended the conversation saying watching telly. >>

Big mistake, when a girl tells you she is poorly and not sleeping you do not tell her you can help her with sleeping! You say oh I'm sorry about that , if you need anything please let me know... that would have been a much better response which I am sure she would have appreciated more than a sexually inclined one!!

Maybe its time you do some reading on how to communicate with a woman, as I suggested before 'men are from mars on a date' would be a great place for you to start while you are on your 2 month no contact!

Well if I were you I would send her one last message apologizing for what you said (if you have not yet done so). After that don't do anything, just wait for her response. Don't e-mail her, call her, IM her, etc. until she contacts you first. Once she does contact you wait a few days before contacting her again, and when you do just say a simple "Hi, just wanted to see how you were doing," and then wait for her to get a hold of you.

I've read your other posts and your biggest problem is that you think there is a tried and true technique to getting an ex-girlfriend back. Unfortunately there isn't and for any technique to work she needs to be willing. Listen, if she doesn't want to get back together then there is absolutely nothing you can do. Try as you might, but you cannot change a persons mind, and trying to do so will more then likely only push her further away.

You seem to be strongly adament against no contact, but you forget that love flourishes when your not always with the person. Why? Because you miss the person and that is when you realize that you're the happiest when your with that individual. Ask yourself this, "Do two people really love eachother when they never have a chance to miss eachother?" It's kind of like when you leave behind family, friends, or pets for a long period of time--whether it is for a business trip, school, etc.--you learn how important something is. For example, after I left for college I was excited that I was leaving home. I was getting tired of my parents and siblings. But after a year or so, with a few visits every now and then, I realized that I feel really good around my family and now when I go home I look forward to it.

Now, with regards to your situation, will no contact bring her back? Will she realize she misses you? Maybe not, she might realize she is happier without you. But hey dude, that's life, what can you do? Just leave her alone and stop trying to win her back. You've already tried that and you failed, deal with it. Take a different approach, take a step back, relax, and quit worrying about how to get her back. She will more then likely contact you again and when she does, take a few days before responding and when you do keep it light and simple. If she doesn't contact you, then don't do anything. Leave it be. After 6 months give it another shot and see what happens.

Remember, there are times and things you can never change (this includes your ex-girlfriends feelings for you), so don't get so carried away.

Hi Guys, for those following my posts. I split up with a girl who ended things, I did the needy ex boyfriend bit (oops).

She messengered me the other day and we were back on speaking terms after a month and a half, then she ended the conversation over a joking comment. Then I sent a text asking if she was feeling better, because she had the flu. And this was ignored.

Where do women get off with treating people this way ! They all say they want someone to care about them, but when you do they ignore you?

So why should I bother, I am the one getting hurt, so I have deleted her details and blocked her on MSN.

I don't know if it's the right thing, but its ripping me apart to care so much for someone and knowing its meaninless to her. Shear ignorance and rudeness not to reply.

What's your thoughts guys? Especially the women out there?

Hi there,

I am guilty of the needy thing also and I regret it. It is not attractive! You are right about deleting her number and MSN. I would say to you to hang in there and do not contact her. She may realise what a kind thing you were doing and just been a caring guy. Again do not contact her please for your own sake.

Hi OLG,

Sorry, you still are being ripped apart by this girl. Yes, I agree it is rude to ignore someone's messages, very rude. And if deleting her contact info, helps you... delete away, and then move on. It's time OLG, don't you think? Shame, there isn't a delete button in our hearts and minds to delete someone who is hurting us.

But to continuously have your messages and feelings disregarded just is not right. Do yourself a favor, and do not look back. Ask yourself, how can someone treat you that way, and do you actually want someone in your life who is able to ignore you, your messages and your feelings.

Good for you and all that time, and energy, and deep care you gave to her, about time you give it to yourself.

Allheart

OLG, I too am sorry she is still hurting you. I too believe it is very rude to ignore messages, extremely. However, I think you did the right thing in ridding yourself of her info.

I am a firm believer in NC since I am such a soft heart and will listen to any apology and truly believe it. NC is meant to heal a heart and soul. I think it is time you continue on the healing path with her behind you. Time to heal your heart OLG.

Go out and make anew with a new year and a new you!;)

Agree with both responses above OLG, could not rate you both, sorry had to spread the rep.

Well Onlineguy, this is the final straw for you it seems and you are now really realising how much contact can hurt you. This is why NC is for the best, however I appreciate you were just being the caring guy. You need to pull away and I agree 100% with what you have done by deleting her number and deleting her from MSN. This situation is just dragging your pain out and really must stop.

It is a new year and you must do what is best for you OLG.

Hi Guys, for those following my posts. I split up with a girl who ended things, I did the needy ex boyfriend bit (oops).

She messengered me the other day and we were back on speaking terms after a month and a half, then she ended the conversation over a joking comment. Then I sent a text asking if she was feeling better, because she had the flu. And this was ignored.

I just want to say that you should make that decision, not her. If you are still emotionally attached to her you can tell her that you will speak to her when you choose to.


Where do women get off with treating people this way ! They all say they want someone to care about them, but when you do they ignore you ??

So why should I bother, I am the one getting hurt, so I have deleted her details and blocked her on MSN.

I dont know if its the right thing, but its ripping me apart to care so much for someone and knowing its meaninless to her. Shear ignorance and rudeness not to reply.

Whats your thoughts guys? Especially the women out there?

Well I’m a recovering nice guy so I can’t speak for the women but you sound exactly like I used to talk. I just kept trying and trying and getting used and used. On top of that you sound like me, emotional. It’s very hard for us emotional guys because we are doing exactly what women ask and in a sense being emotional you’d think we’d almost be understood more.

The “problem” with the emotional guy is he can become so emotional that he starts acting like their girlfriends. Being emotional we also try to make them happy and unfortunately we do it at our own expense. In our mind we think, “well even though I don’t want to do this, she’ll see my sacrifice and what I’m doing for her, and she’ll appreciate me even more.

Unfortunately, that is the exact opposite of what is going on inside there head. They are thinking when we cave or always give them what we want that we are weak and can not really support them emotionally. They are thinking that we act just like their friends (which ironically, we think is a good thing but it’s not) and not like a man. Remember women want a secure, confident man, not a needy, dependent person that acts like their girlfriends.

Exactly I agree with above, send one more proper apology. Something like " I'm sorry for what I said , about your ex plus the last time when we talked on msn. I am so mean and inconsiderate and it is no wonder I have messed everything up between us.
If you would like to talk to me again I would be happy, but I understand if you do not. I will leave it up to you now.
Take care,

Wait now! U forgot to mention what you told her when she said she was sick!! I replied to your other post .

Onlineguy,

Well my first impression upon reading your post, I would think you over reacted. I say this because Ive dealt with an emotional ex recently, and the way you just explained things reminds me so much of how he would blow things out of proportion.

There were very valid times that I just could not respond to him, such as when I was at work and busy or when I was trying to get something done.

For granted you were asking a simple question and it would have been nice to get a response and not feel ignored, but it sounds as if you expect to be ignored therefore the minute she doesn't say something in return right away, you assume the worst.

I could very well be wrong, and just stuck with the memories of my own recent, and unsuccessful, attempt at being friends with my ex. Things were fine until he finally found the leverage to turn things against me. I figured out that was the only reason he was even still talking to me. He couldn't stand that he was the one at fault... which we broke up for the same reason you and your ex did... he was too needy, too insecure, and untrusting.

With all that said, I think its best for you to just continue walking away. It seems as though its just tearing you up trying to be friends with her. I don't think its fair to you or her at this point.

She will probably be a little hurt that this is how you are going to end things, but she may have expected this to be your behavior anyhow. I know I definitely expected my ex to behave like he did... I tried to avoid it, but in the end I just let go and let him be, I let him turn things against me cause then he was able to move on. It sucks he hates me now... but I feel OK with that sine I don't feel like I have to play nice or try to always reason with him...

Ok well I hope this made some sort sense. Just try and let things go... You will be better off.

Naa I think she is just pissed off with him as in her opinion he seems to want just one thing.
The communication here is not good at all .

Onlineguy,


There were very valid times that I just could not respond to him, such as when I was at work and busy or when I was trying to get something done.

For granted you were asking a simple question and it would have been nice to get a response and not feel ignored, but it sounds as if you expect to be ignored therefore the minute she doesnt say something in return right away, you assume the worst.

He couldnt stand that he was the one at fault.... which we broke up for the same reason you and your ex did... he was too needy, too insecure, and untrusting.

She will probably be a little hurt that this is how you are going to end things,
Ok well I hope this made some sort sense. Just try and let things go... You will be better off.

Thanks for your replies guys.

When someone cares enough about you to ask if your feeling better, because you were ill there is no excuse to ignore that, that's just rude ! It was a text and a left message on msn.

As for being at fault, I have admitted I F*** up and was in the wrong, all I have tried to do is make amends for this, but she is not prepared to give me the chance to do this !

Yes at the end of the relationship I did the needy, desperate, obsessive ex, who texts way too much, but I have appologised and explained that I am over that.

The problem that I have now is that she knows I am sorry, if I contact her she ignores me. So I did the no contact bit, she contacts me and I am walking on egg shells watching every little thing I say and trying to keep things light between us. No pressure no heavy emotional S***. But I say one little thing wrong and she goes into ignore mode ! How do you deal with someone like that ?

I cannot do it, its ripping me up, I cannot be in a position where I have to second guess every word I say or write. She appears to only consider her emotions and not the fact that I have any ! If when I F*** up I was not bothered, didn't care or made light of it I could understand her reaction. But if someone has made a mistake and is genuine about it and wants to correct it, how are they to deal with someone who is not prepared to give them the chance, someone who will look for reasons not to communicate with them ?


Sorry to rant guys but this situ, should never of been! I just can't continue like this, it hurts too much ! She changes her thoughts more times than I change my socks !

So do I continue to be treat rudly, walking on glass, watching every little thing I say and worring that she may perceive it in the wrong way or do I stop trying and walk away ?

Roll - Evan when I said the joking comment it is not enough for her to react the way she is doing, She knows I have feelings for her, not just interested in sex.

She is just not giving me a break, everything is 100% about her, which I can understand her feeling that way due to being hurt, but you cannot work in a relationship that way, you have to cut the other person some slack ! At least talk to the person and hear them out, not just close of at the first thing that you do not like the sound of, without evan mentioning that to the person !

<<But I say one little thing wrong and she goes into ignore mode ! How do you deal with someone like that ?
<<

Well did you apologize to her? It just seems to me that she is still pissed off about the ex comment and now that comment about 'helping her sleep'' when she told you she was sick didn't exactly help!

But its true, if you have to watch everything you say to her maybe you are just complete opposites , and she is an over emotional,susceptible type of girl... so maybe she is just not the right one for you..

Stop trying and walk away...
You don't deserve to be feeling this way. If you have apologized and kicked back and she is still reacting that way then it sounds like she just thinks your going to jump back to the old ways, and she is not willing to give you a chance to prove you have changed. Therefore she has moved on and you should go your own way too.

Just take this as a learning tool. Know that you are a better person coming out of all this...

Hello,

Yes I have the same problem and caring too much hurts you, gives her the wrong idea about what love is and hurts your relationship. Show her you care in moderate levels, show her you care when she needs support. Do not hang and shower her with compliments, enquires, calls. That hurs the relationship. Its like spoiling a child. I showed my girlfriend a cared too much and when a big fight came along she called me a loser. So care see whether she reciprocates but don't be needy to show her. If she doesn't love you you can give the world it will not matter. Women are heartless when they feel nothing for you. Women deal better with break ups and are not afraid to break up with men. Men have hard time breaking bad news to women. Women are just better eqipped for relationships because of the fact they are simply women.

Hello,

caring too much hurts you, gives her the wrong idea about what love is and hurts your relationship. Show her you care in moderate levels, show her you care when she needs support. Do not hang and shower her with compliments, enquires, calls. That hurs the relationship. Its like spoiling a child. I showed my girlfriend a cared too much and when a big fight came along she called me a loser. So care see whether she reciprocates but don't be needy to show her. If she doesn't love you you can give the world it will not matter. Women are heartless when they feel nothing for you. Women deal better with break ups and are not afraid to break up with men. Men have hard time breaking bad news to women. Women are just better eqipped for relationships because of the fact they are simply women.

I can't believe How spot on you are. When they have feelings for you they are the most loving of creatures, but when those feelings go they are heartless and will take the shirt from your back.

It's that old saying, can't live with them, but can't live without them ! And women wonder why a lot of guys treat them like s***, Its only because we have been on the receiving end of their coldness and hurtfullness, that we think never again.

I really feel for you, it hurts doesn't it. That's why sometimes you need to a bit angry with them, why should ask how they are? They are for sure not botheresd about us. I too am very sensitive and can totally see where you are coming from.

Don't be too hard on yourself you were being yourself, and being caring. Just don't be too caring about people that don't deserve it : )

Please see my previous threads. Got ex talking again, but lost her, Got annoyed and blocked her details on msn.

She text and asks if on msn. I unblock. Half an hour later she is online, so I messenger her and she says I am not staying, corrects my grammar over something and then says bi??

?

Move on, stop playing games,

Maybe she is pmsing ;-)

What did you message her exactly?

I think she's playing hard to get... wonder why she just cannot tell you what she wants instead of all this childishness.

Get firm with her now.

maybe she is pmsing ;-)

what did you message her exactly?

i think shes playing hard to get ...wonder why she just cannot tell you what she wants instead of all this childishness.

Get firm with her now.

I simple asked her if she was any good with sorting out pc's as I have loads of viruses infecting my computer and having a bar be que.. lol

She said she was not staying, correct a mistake I made in this sentence and said bye ! Signed out of msn.

What is that about ? She knows how I feel !

Oh just leave her to it for now and don't message her anything else.

I believe she is using the old "treat them mean , keep them keen" which unfortunately is working very well with you...

How on earth do I prevent this girl from playing games !

I just can't believe that she is happy with the way the relationship has gone ! How could I have been so wrong, or so misled.

This whols situation is messed up ! Surly you try to solve problems, not create more.

Sorry to rant, very very confused by all of this!!

<<How on earth do I prevent this girl from playing games ! >>

Quite simply, Do not engage in games with her.

Tell her you do not like game playing and want a real relationship and that when she is ready to do that to contact you and if not then goodbye.

I would leave her be, she obviously likes messing you about. Ex's behave in a strange way. I think they like the control part. I wouldn't give her the satisfaction. (Wish I could take my own advice these days!)

This sucks, but I have no choice but to walk away ! She is continuesly backing me into this corner, She is either avoiding discussing issues, ignoring me or playing games !

Yet it was her who pushed for the relationship ! Her who pushed to get close together ! Everything thing about this whole mess could have been avioded. All she had to do was be straight with me form the start.

If it was a casual thing then I would not of looked at it as a relationship and would not of gotten attached ! I got attached and it appears she did not !

Can't even get her to talk about things... I am in complete limbo - with the only choice is to walk away, unless that is what she is wanting by this ! But why enter and push for a close relationship ! I wonder if she thinks I am not the person she thought I was.

Sorry there thinking aload, just very confused...

By all means think aloud. It really helps me, I would honestly have had a break down if I didn't have this site sometimes!

The 'ex' is a very strange species!

Ha ha WAP , EXACTLY this site is fab!
I would be having a breakdown by now also as I would have been having a lovely strange friends situation with my ex by now if it was not for here!! (to which I am very thankful to all!! )

I could see where you were coming from though. It would be good to be on at least OK terms with my ex because of work etc. If I ever have to call him for a job or something. Instead though, I don't know where I stand if we were to meet etc. Whether he would speak to me or what.

If she plays games just tell her to stop playing games. If she continues, ignore her.

If she plays games just tell her to stop playing games. If she continues, ignore her.


Your right, that is all I can do. There is one thing with trying to make amends, trying to get feeling back and / or being friendly but it is a totally different thing to be made a fool of. That is not acceptable ? I would lose all respect as well as all self respect !

I now must wait till she contact me, because if I contact her I will give her the wrong impression of the man that I am.

Its Funny, I did the needy obsesive ex, which pushed her farther away. I have tried to be the guy I was who she met, but playing games is actually pushing me away !

Funny things feelings, I guess the only true way is complete openness about what each person wants. How to achieve that with clearly a very imature person is beyond me !

Oh to be a Vulcan!. lol.

<<How to achieve that with clearly a very imature person is beyond me !
>>

Yeah , go and find a mature one, this one sounds very childish.

I agree with all of your other responses onlineguy and I have followed your threads closely. Based on what you have wrote, I think she is very immature and also somewhat insecure. This is proven by the fact that she feels the need to play emotional games with you. She in some way projects her own insecurities onto you by playing mind games and tries to control you by treating you in this way when she knows for a fact that this could only hurt you more. I'm not a psychologist but it does not take a genius to work out that she is manipulating you (or ate least trying to) and you must prevent her from doing that.

I would ignore her now and begin your healing. I appreciate you might be a little behind after all this and I know this will be hard for you. You could find so much better, especially in terms of maturity.

NO CONTACT! IGNORE HER PERIOD!!!Takes two to play games dude.

Real simple walk away don't look back!

Based on what you have wrote, I think she is very immature and also somewhat insecure. This is proven by the fact that she feels the need to play emotional games with you. She in some way projects her own insecurities onto you by playing mind games and trys to control you by treating you in this way when she knows for a fact that this could only hurt you more. I'm not a psychologist but it does not take a genius to work out that she is manipulating you (or ate least trying to) and you must prevent her from doing that..


You are totally spot on, I am on the computer now, logged into msn. She logs in and then goes onto busy, so I know she is there but I cannot contact her.? If she did not want me to know she is there, she just did not need to log in... Mind Games.

I signed out ! ( I am totally gobsmacked by this behaviour),:eek:

Your running yourself crazy dude let it go.

Your running yourself crazy dude let it go.

Your right, enough is enough! She has crossed the line, that is just acting in a way that will hurt me, not in a way that will resolve our situation and bring us closer together.

There is nowhere left for me to go here but away!

So much for trying to get her back... lol. Lest this be a lesson to you all ! Lol:mad:

No contact, completely now. Don't have an option, or I will be a fool over her. "Cathy's Clown"!!

You say you can't get her to talk about anything...

Neither of you are talking. You are TYPING. How the hell can you have a relationship and talk about serious issues on MSN.

Lose the MSN in future and talk on the phone or in person.

You are both playing stupid games with one another and it is very immature. As Tal said, it takes two to play games. Your as willing a particiapant as she is so as much at fault.

Time to ignore her completely!

Hi guys, I am moving on from a bad relationship breakup. I have been talking to some girls and asked them out. But I get a reply like not this week or ask me out in a couple of weeks.

This feels like I am being played and that there is someone else in the wings who they really want !

What's your take on this. I don't want to be made a fool of.

I mean when a guy askes a girl out he is esentialy putting himself on the line and showing her she is of value to him, this gives her a lot of power over him and no one likes rejection.

Is there a way to do this without being in that possible lower value position?

Or is it best to be friendly and see if she initiates first??

Try asking again in a couple of weeks.

It's possible they're just not interested, and don't want to give you a flat rejection... some people make non-committal answers to spare feelings, or just because they don't like saying no. It's not a matter of being played.

Any time you ask anyone for anything, you put them in a position of power. Doesn't matter whether it's a date or a job or the time, they always have something you want. There's no way to avoid that without just deciding not to ask for anything ever again... not a good choice.

If you want to date a girl, ask. Otherwise, you end up not knowing whether she would have gone out with you... it's possible that she just doesn't ask guys out, no matter what. The worst thing that happens is you get a no... and that's not a big deal, really, unless you've got some emotion invested in the idea of dating this girl before it happens. And if you have that, then you need to start asking girls out more quick or getting emotionally involved slower.

Hi guys, I am moving on from a bad relationship breakup. I have been talking to some girls and asked them out. But I get a reply like not this week or ask me out in a couple of weeks.

I think those thre lines for me say it all that might be wrong. First, how long ago was the break up? If it was recently maybe your still getting over it and the girls sense this. When it comes to emotions girls can sense a guys feelings, sometimes better than he can. Woman are emotional and as a result can pick up on someone who is hurting.

Perhaps they are interested in you but not in your current emotional state. They don't want to be the rebound. That's my take.

If I were you I wouldn't bring it up again with the girls and let her approach you. When she does if she says something like, "Do you still want to get together?" Answer her JOKINGLY with "oh you think your ready for me?" That shows you've got a sense of humor and turns it around that you were the one ready and she had to get her nerve up. Like she had to prepare.

But all that being said, are you ready to date yet? If it's still too soon then wait, because you don't want to get caught in a cycle spinning downwards.

As I remember you and your girl had just broken up A month or two ago, and maybe you aren't ready as you think to get back in the hunt. But I will tell you an old player secret. Some guys always get the girl and why? Because the keep asking until they get one to say yes. They are successful because of one thing, they have no fear of rejection. They may get 100 no's before they find that yes. Have some confidence in yourself and and learn to be happy and love yourself.

Too many similar questions. Multiple threads merged.

I read somewhere that unlike guys who are very visual and go for looks, then personality. Women on the other hand are more atracted to a guys personality than his looks ?

So a question for the femails out there, is this true ?

Also we all like to be found atractive by the opposite sex, it makes us feel good. But we want to be desired / attactive to someone who is of value to us.

In the case of guys a good looking girl with a good friendly nice personality.

But in the case of women, what traits are considered to be of value to a girl, so that she will want the guy to find her attractive and see him as a boyfriend prospect. As opposed to just a nice guy ? What makes him more of value to her than anyone else ?

Ok I think this just depends on the person and there values, I certainly do not find looks the first thing on my list it helps yes but its not the b all and end all if you know what I mean.

I am not denying that looks help but I've found very few men that are really pleasing to look at with amazing personalities this also relates to females, that's not to say they aren't out there mind you I don't think I've ever had a guy that spends more time in the bathroom than me that would just be kind of worrying.

Personality is important and a lot further up my list that's for sure heck why would you want to spend time with someone if you can't have a decent conversation its not like you can spend the hours of a date just looking at each other giggle.

But we are all different and we all have qaulitys that others don't but that's just life if we were all same would'nt it be as dull as hell.

For me I would say some kind of humour is important. Maybe its number 1.
Some confidence also, and someone who does not try to rush things who takes it easy, but is not afraid to pursue. This is important , some guys can talk and be nice but you know they are afraid to ask for a date.thats a bit of a turnoff.
Someone who can have a good converation with you about life and experiences.
Intelligence for me is also important.
And someone sweet and nice but not too nice ;-) its all a kind of balance really.
That's all ;-))

I always find women's looks extremely important for about half an hour, and then after that it's really a non-issue, the personality is so much more important in the long run, I won't bother to keep in touch with someone if all they have going for them is their looks.

I believe everyone is different, and putting men in one category and women into another is far to generalising than you can be with this kind of issue.

Beauty comes from the inside.

I think that women are more inclined to get involved with the 'feeling' of love than men are while men are more inclined to go for the practical aspects, such as, does this make me feel good, am I happy seeing this person, equals they're attractive, equals love.

I think it's also quite a bit more and less complicated than what I've said here. I'm sure that's very confusing. And of course, no one size fits all...

I don't think men and women are much different from each other. I'm sure this is where people go wrong in making assumptions about how we are different.

Too many similar questions. Multiple threads merged.

This is in part following on with my previous post.

If a guy fancies a girl, likes her physical appearance then he has an emotional interest in talking to her. If he then does not like her personality he will not wish to talk to her. If he does like her personality then he will want to talk to her more and be more attracted to her, to the point of wanting to go out with her.

But from all accounts since women are atracted to how a guy communicates (ie personality and how he makes her feel) then unless he approaches them they will not aproach him, bucause they do not fancy him on a physical appreance level and so no emotional interest in talking to him.

Is this the case ?

(Do women only go for guys who talk to them, in which case they are losing out on a lot of partners who because they will not iniate they will not know what they are like. In the case of shy men, or men who are not confident this can be sole destroying!).

Also this put a lot of pressure on guys to iniate and to have the possibility of rejection !


Somehow this does not seem to make sense!! Or am I percieveing things in the wrong way??

Yeah LBP said it very well !
Women start with the feelings of how the guy makes you feel whereas men think more practical and at the beginning men seem more focused on the actual chase.Once this has been achieved then the males start to think about whether this person is a long term partner or not.
It is then I believe they start to think using the logic of why this woman is NOT the right person for them.
Which Is directly opposite to how women approach the issue. Why is this the right guy for me? And they think about this before getting involved in the relationship.

I Think I've gone off the subject lol and those has been my observations, I cnat say it applies to every male and female out there lol

I disagree rol, I certainly don't think of it the way you described and that's the only evidence I can give you. Maybe I'm an anomaly.

Some women still believe in the tradition of the waiting for the male to ask them out. For the woman to iniate the asking is considered aggressive, not proper conduct.

Some women do not hold to that standard and will make the first contact. For them, it makes sense to iniate contact. They are thinking that maybe the guy does not know they are interested, so why not express it?

You talk about the physical appearance - men and women are both attracted to each other on that level. You will always find men and women who are attracted purely to the physical and not too concerned about the personality, as long as they look good.

There is enough shyness in both sexes and do not equate shyness with disinterest.

As people mature they may find their dating preferences change. Going from the purely physical focus to one that focuses on the personality first. That is all possible. What was so important as a teen is not that important in their 30's. And it could stay the same too. Everyone is different.

You talk about the pressure of being rejected. That is a fact of life, whether male or female. I agree that it is not the best part of life but it comes with the territory, so to speak. Just don't let that fear of rejection hang over you like a dark cloud. If you let that fear come before asking someone for a date, that will be on your mind the whole date. Learn to relax, be comfortable in yourself, and not be so worried. Everyone makes dating mistakes - everyone. It is human nature.

yeah LBP said it very well !
Women start with the feelings of how the guy makes u feel whereas men think more practical and at the beginning men seem more focussed on the actual chase.Once this has been achieved then the males start to think about whether this person is a long term partner or not.
It is then I believe they start to think using the logic of why this woman is NOT the right person for them.
Which Is directly opposite to how women approach the issue. Why is this the right guy for me? and they think about this before getting involved in the relationship.

I Think ive gone off the subject lol and those has been my observations, i cnat say it applies to every male and female out there lol


Hi Rol. Good to hear from you again.

Forgive me for saying but you sound typical of the gils I meet and have observed. Perhaps you would answer the follow on post from this one !

Thanks Online guy...

This is in part following on with my previous post.

If a guy fancies a girl, likes her physical appearance then he has an emotional interest in talking to her. If he then does not like her personality he will not wish to talk to her. If he does like her personality then he will want to talk to her more and be more attracted to her, to the point of wanting to go out with her.

But from all accounts since women are atracted to how a guy communicates (ie personality and how he makes her feel) then unless he approaches them they will not aproach him, bucause they do not fancy him on a physical appreance level and so no emotional interest in talking to him.

Is this the case ?

(Do women only go for guys who talk to them, in which case they are losing out on a lot of partners who because they will not iniate they will not know what they are like. In the case of shy men, or men who are not confident this can be sole destroying!).

Also this put a lot of pressure on guys to iniate and to have the possibility of rejection !


Somehow this does not seem to make sence !!! or am I percieveing things in the wrong way ????
Women have been brought up to believe that if a guy fancies you then HE should make the first move. "Nice girls" don't do that, it comes across as being 'cheap' and 'forward', it's just society though, the same as girls should play with dolls when they're children and boys shouldn't. Times are changing though and because women are becoming more assertive (and more impatient) they are going for what they want, and if this means going up to ask a guy out then they'll do it.

That being said, if you do see a woman you like and she likes you too then you can tell by her body language, you normally find she'll look over at you then look away if she catches you glancing at her and this will go on all night in some cases. It's not just guys who like women for their looks, women can be attracted to how a guy looks too and the personality follows. Most women like a man who is interested in them and what they have to say, has good manners, is intelligent and uses his initiative, hence one of the reasons they like them to make that first move. A lot of the times (if it were me for example), if she sees him looking at her all night and he doesn't make a move, then she'd make herself more "available" i.e. standing closer to him as the night goes on, maybe even starting a conversation with him so it can be a two way thing. As for women losing out if they wait for the guy to ask... any clever woman, if she has sights on a guy will make SURE she gets to talk to him in some form, even if it's only bumping into them, they'll make sure it happens and take the conversation from there.

Eve

Actually it's a good question.

Girls usually do not pursue because if a guy is interested he should pursue... however a lot of those guys that do pursue can be just looking for one thing.

Personally I like a guy who is not afraid to ask for a date, I don't like guys who will come and talk but do not initiate asking for a drink etc. But as you say those guys can be shy , but to a girl some confidence is important and he should not be afraid of rejection.

So go ahead ask the girl for a drink etc, don't fear rejection, show confidence. And take things slowly,NO need for rushing things, get to know her, ask her interesting things, do fun things, laugh.

Yes society has us programmed, but that's changing as more females are getting more aggressive about what they want. Men may do most of the chasing, but they have a way of sending us signals and make us think its "our" idea when they have chosen us.

Okay... I'm going to guess that you are in your late teens or early twenties. Girls of that age are still wrapped up in Disney, and are waiting for the Prince to make his move first. If he doesn't make the move, then he's OBVIOUSLY not interested. Or something.

I was like that at that age too. For some reason, it had been drilled into me that nice girls don't make the first move---and men date bad girls but marry nice girls. That leaves girls with the choice of either having a lot of dates and being called a bad girl or has her waiting by the phone being a nice girl.

YES, these are generalizations, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

By the time you're in your mid-twenties, that all changes. Women stop waiting for a guy to make them happy, and start doing what they want to do. It's THEN that women get the confidence to ask out guys, because they realize that the whole good girl/bad girl thing is either a load of crap, or it's based on something other than just whether he asked you out or you asked him out.

Yeah synnens post is very true. Really depends on age. I still would not ask a guy out though and I'm 33 now.. at the most I may invite him along with friends if he was not making any move lol ;-)
But obviously if he is not making any move then he's probably not into me or just come out of a relationship or not ready for a relationship so what's the point ;-)
Generally I think if a guy likes you and is into you he should be the one to pursue.

I guess I've been IN a relationship for the last 11 years, so it's kind of hard to say what I'd do now.

I guess, though, I have more confidence when just asking people to go out in general. I'm not afraid that the girl in the office that I think is really cool is going to reject me if I ask her out for a cup of coffee after work sometime. Or, if she does turn me down, I'm not as paranoid that she must hate me and be laughing behind my back. Same with the guys I work with--if I think someone is cool, I'll ask them to do something with me, usually something I'm going to do anyway. If they say no, oh well. If they say yes, then I might have a new friend.

I have noticed that a lot of guys for fear of rejection do not aproach girls. There is nothing wrong with these guys and these guys would treat the girls well.

But it is the guys who just see girls as sex objects who will go out and hit on loads of different women a night that aproach the girls. Because the girls are waiting for a guy to aproach them, then they will go with these guys. Then this guy will just use her or cheat on her, because he always looking for another lay.

My point is that because the girl will only go for the guy who aproaches her as opposed to the guy who perhaps really likes her, but does not aproach her because he is not receiving any signs from her that she is interested (because she does not aproach ) then she will be seeing a jerk who mistreats her and cheats on her.! This happens loads and does not make sense !

Surly you would think that if a girl sees a guy hitting on loads of other girls it would put her off, but the opposite seems to apply!

If a guy does not make his interest known, then how can a woman tell if he is interested? That's why confident guys get the play, Guy. They have no fear of rejection and are quite willing to move on when there is no interest. They have their own agenda and that's what they care about. When a fellow can overcome his shyness and fear of rejection he has more opportunities and more fun.

Why should the girl go out looking among guys who may or may not be interested, when she can just sit back and wait for people who are? Remember, by not approaching, you're not giving her any signals that you're interested either... why do you expect more from her than you're willing to give?

Gender doesn't matter on this... anybody who waits for somebody else to make the move has no place to complain when they don't have a date.

I can go into great length about why waiting for someone else to approach you or hesitating to approach someone you're interested in is a terrible idea, but it boils down to this: Doing nothing will always get you a no, while doing something will get you a maybe. Given the choice, I'll take the maybe any day.

Exactly Tals post was what I was saying previously!
Women want a confident guy , not some shy thing that is afraid to ask her out!!
I met my ex at a party , we talked for 2 minutes and I left, the next day he rang a friend of a friend to get my number and asked me out, that showed condfidence and strength.

<<My point is that because the girl will only go for the guy who aproaches her as opposed to the guy who perhaps really likes her, but does not aproach her because he is not receiving any signs from her that she is interested (because she does not aproach ) then she will be seeing a jerk who mistreats her and cheats on her.! >>

No no no, just because the guy approaches does not mean the girl is going to fall for the jerk! What she wants is a guy who is not afraid to approach but yet takes things slowly and remains uncertain, this is why the jerks get the girls. The nice guys just stand around but wait for the girl to make the move, that is very unattractive or else they act all needy and go ahead in the stages.
I found an interesting paragraph in a book I'm reading, I will add it here later, right now I'm a bit busy.

Following on somwhat from the other posts.

If a guy finds a girl physically atractive, aproaches her and ask her out. He in affect is letting her know that she is of high value to him. If she says yes great. But if she says no then the rejections is a statement of him being of low value to her. Nobody likes to be of low value.

Since women do not aproach and will only go for a guy who aproaches her, then she does not put herself in the position of rejection. But equally she may not get aproached by a guy who could be right for her.

Also women act in an unaproachable manner, kind of a shield. They will shoot a guy down before getting to know him. Unless the guy is just being nice in which case they will see him as a friend. Resulting in rejection at a later date if he pursues a relationship.

So in effect all of this relates to a guy having to show her value, and taking a roll of a dice !

I don't know about you guys and girls out there, but without meaning to sound arrogant or full of myself, of which I am neither. I am of value ! I won't allow someone to say or treat me like I am not and I do not take kindly to someone showing, treating, or indicating that I am of no or little value. So I will not allow someone to be in such a position over me.

( We don't allow this to take place in out work envioroment or our social envioroment so why in our pursuit of finding another to care for!! ).


Surly the attraction should be 50 50. But how can it be if it has to rely on a man aproaching and the woman having all the power/ control... call it what you will.

I think more of someone who considers / treats me and shows me that my value is appreciated. If a woman rejects a man without giving herself a chance to know him, this is showing him lack of value and disrespect. Both unaceptable behaviour from a guy to a girl and from a girl to a guy!!

So what is the way to ask someone out without them being on such a higher value than you and being able to shoot you down, reject you.?

(is it best to communicate and wait for indicators of interest from her (value in you) before you tell her that you like her ! (value in her) or tell her that you like her as an indication of interest (value ) from you first so that she will either view you in a partner way or reject you in a partner way ?

Is there a way to be with someone without the possibility of rejection ? Which I take offence at.

<<is it best to communicate and wait for indicators of interest from her (value in you) before you tell her that you like her ! (value in her) or tell her that you like her as an indication of interest (value ) from you first so that she will either view you in a partner way or reject you in a partner way >>

you do not have to tell her you like her. As I said before you need to be uncertain in the beginning, a woman does not like a man who tells her he likes her without even knowing who she is!!
Just ask her out simply like "we should go and have a coffee/drink sometime"
if she says ' no' then don't act upset , just change the subject.

usually if I like a guy who talks to me , I would not ask him out but if he brought up something that I have an interest in example music, I would tell him oh I know this good place etc, and usually he would say oh we should go some evening.

So perhaps next time you talk to a girl find out her interests and do that approach, you will be able to tell by her attitude if she is interested or not.Again for the third time today "CONFIDENCE IS KEY"

First of all, women do approach. I've been approached any number of times.

Now, as for the rest of it... of course you're of value. But if you expect everyone to think that, then you're in for a whole lot of disappointment in your life. Do you automatically put a high value on every single person you see on the street? That random person over there, the one you didn't even notice until I pointed him out to you... that's who you are to some people. That's who we all are.

It's always a roll of the dice when you approach someone. There's no way to change that. The thing is, how much value do you ascribe to them before approaching? The more of that you do, the more you think about them, the harder it will be to take a rejection. If it's just somebody that you look at and say 'Hey, she looks neat' and go say hi, and she tells you to sod off, all you've lost is those few seconds. Who is she to you? Nothing important, just some girl. It's when you've seen her, thought about her, agonized over asking her out, started fantasizing about the ensuing relationship... then you get devastated if she says no, because you have all of this emotional invested in something that hasn't even existed.

Don't wait to ask a girl out... just go out and do it. Rejection is only hard if you've built up an expectation of acceptance.

Here's a couple questions for you, Onlineguy, just to put it into a little perspective:

Have you EVER been approached by a girl? If so, did you automatically say yes just because she was interested in you?

If you haven't been approached by a girl... If a girl you don't know, but who has a class with you or something, approaches you, and is NOT your ideal woman (she's overweight, doesn't know how to dress, or stutters when she talks to you because she's so nervous, for examples)--Would you automatically say 'yes' because she has value? Or because she had the guts to ask you out? Remember... you don't know this girl at ALL. She's just someone you have a class with. You know NOTHING about her, but she likes you, and has just asked you out.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Just because guys have the guts to ask a girl doesn't mean they'll automatically be taken up on it, regardless of how cocky he is, or how much of a jerk. And while physical appearance isn't everything, if you don't at least talk to someone first, they're not going to know anything about you EXCEPT your physical appearance!

Basically... it's not necessary for either gender to ask someone out. But if you don't ask, you'll never know.

Following on somwhat from the other posts.
By Onlineguy
If a guy finds a girl physically atractive, aproaches her and ask her out. He in affect is letting her know that she is of high value to him. If she says yes great. But if she says no then the rejections is a statement of him being of low value to her. Nobody likes to be of low value.
Not true you cannot equate not being interested with no value.

Since women do not aproach and will only go for a guy who aproaches her, then she does not put herself in the position of rejection. But equally she may not get aproached by a guy who could be right for her.
Equally if a guy is to shy then he misses a chance to be with some who is right for him.

Also women act in an unaproachable manner, kind of a shield. They will shoot a guy down before getting to know him. Unless the guy is just being nice in which case they will see him as a friend. Resulting in rejection at a later date if he pursues a relationship.
I agree there are some people in the world who act like this and you just have to accept they exist and leave them alone if you can.

So in effect all of this relates to a guy having to show her value, and taking a roll of a dice !
There 's that value word again. We all have value but that doesn't mean people will be attracted or interested.

I don't know about you guys and girls out there, but without meaning to sound arrogant or full of myself, of which I am neither. I am of value ! I won't allow someone to say or treat me like I am not and I do not take kindly to someone showing, treating, or indicating that I am of no or little value. So I will not allow someone to be in such a position over me.
That's your personal convictions. You are entitled to them. Everyone has their own ideas as to their personal value.


( We don't allow this to take place in out work envioroment or our social envioroment so why in our pursuit of finding another to care for!! ).
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????


Surly the attraction should be 50 50. But how can it be if it has to rely on a man aproaching and the woman having all the power/ control... call it what you will.
It takes time to know what the attraction is, and where it leads to. You cannot assume anything until you take the time to get to know someone and evaluate your feelings in an honest healthy way.

I think more of someone who considers / treats me and shows me that my value is appreciated. If a woman rejects a man without giving herself a chance to know him, this is showing him lack of value and disrespect. Both unaceptable behaviour from a guy to a girl and from a girl to a guy!!
We call it life and we are all free to be with who we want. Because a female rejects your interest doesn't mean she is a bad person o lacks respect. This is more about your fear of rejection than how she feels. Personally I think when you say hello, and don't get the interest level you want then thats something a mature person has to deal with.

So what is the way to ask someone out without them being on such a higher value than you and being able to shoot you down, reject you.?
Hey, just be yourself and shoot your best shot, and accept it for what it is. Emotionally healthy people have no problem with taking the risk of life. Fear is not a good excuse for not trying.

(is it best to communicate and wait for indicators of interest from her (value in you) before you tell her that you like her ! (value in her) or tell her that you like her as an indication of interest (value ) from you first so that she will either view you in a partner way or reject you in a partner way ?
Those are the kinds of things that you have to find out for yourself as all you have to do is pay attention and stop assuming, and forget the value thing, because everyone sense of value is so different.

Is there a way to be with someone without the possibility of rejection ? Which I take offence at.
I suspect your fear of rejection has an effect as to what action you take in dealing with the opposite sex. It is no worse than anything else in life as the key to it is how you handle it and there is nothing like experience to teach us the nuances of life and how to deal with it.

No body likes rejection, even if it is done in a nice way. It makes you feel unatractive, undesirable and unwanted. Evan if only for a short time.

So you see a girl you like, friendly to them, talk to them and get to know them.

Problem is if you don't let her know you like her,she may see you as a friend, but if you do let her know you like her she may reject you.

What do people think the signs are that she likes you in a b/f sense, so that you can gage this before you ask her out ?

Any ideas ?

Quote from another post ! Femail poster.

"Yes, I have to find the man attractive but to me attractive includes how he carries himself, how he makes eye contact, how he interacts with others. I wouldn't go over to a man just because I thought he had good looking features".



You see, as a guy we do. If we find a girl hot physically then we have the emotional interest to go and talk to her. If we do not find her attractive physically then we will not have the emotional interest to go over and talk to her

? So if girls do not have the interest to talk to a guy even if she finds him physically atractive. What makes her have the interest in going to talk to him, to get to know him ? Or does this just not happen ?

Waaaaaay back when I was single (A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away)...

I didn't turn guys down when they asked me out UNLESS:

1. I was dating someone else exclusively
2. They just asked me out with nothing specific in mind ("You just wanna hang out sometime" came across as lame--like the guy liked me but had no ideas of his own or just wanted to get into my pants so wanted me to choose what I liked so that he didn't have to do any work)
3. I had other plans for the time suggested
4. For whatever reason, I *really* didn't like the guy asking me out. Granted, the only times that happened, it was a female friend's ex, or a guy who had very poor personal hygiene, or one that I knew enough about to know that being alone with him for a couple of hours would make me stop being nice.
5. The guy came off as desperate. (That's scary)

Just ASK her already. I think the problem here is really that you feel THAT rejected by being turned down. Feeling that badly about it means that you've invested too much into a simple question. I agree that no one likes to be rejected... but seriously, you're just asking someone to spend time with you. Would you feel as badly if it were another guy that said "no, I'm sorry, I have plans"?

Yes, I really would just ask. I agree rejection it is painful - as someone who has recently been rejected let me tell you it is BLOODY painful - but I'm still glad I did it. Really. Because otherwise you'll never know, and you'll forever be kicking yourself and thinking 'What if' If she turns you down, that's it, end of story. But if you never pluck up the courage in the first place then it will go on and on and on leave you nothing but feelings of frustration. Ask. Because I'm sure she'd be delighted.

Have courage, take a deep breath and go for it. Best of luck.

OLG, Let me point out that fear of rejection or anything else is a personal problem to be overcome. I don't know if it's the many times I've been rejected, or the times that facing that fear and getting positive results is what got me over the hump, but its something that can be overcome. Just find your courage and just ask her. You may be missing some great dates unless you do.

I know girls that I like, I am friendly with them, but look for indications that they like me in more than just a friend way.

trouble is I do not apear to get these vibes, so I am reluctant to ask them out. Nobody likes to be rejected, not liked or their feelings not returned. It is showing another that they are of more value to you than you are to them.

To my mind it should be 50 50.

Any suggestions guys ?

(I guess I do not like the feeling of not being wanted, especially if I want the person a lot). What makes this harder is that I do not just wish to go out with anyone, but look for someone who I am very attracted to and who's personality I like.

Guess I have very high standards. The girls I go for, receive a lot of emotional interest from guys but you can't help who you like, can you ! ).

Have you ever tried asking one of them out?
Just do it confidently and with humour.

Whoa Nellie, for starters you are comparing apples to oranges here! You know your own feelings of desire well but you do not know other peoples' feelings nearly as well. People are private about such things so to say you are probing and don't find 50/50 has more to do with this skewed, bad science approach you are using than anything, I suspect.

Most people ask out who they are initially interested in and most people accept invitiations from whom they are interested in... with the goal to be getting to know each other better. Desire needs to be wisely tempered by that crucial getting to know process. There is no guarantee that who you like physically, or superficially will turn out on closer "inspection" to be someone you still desire. Now if you are wanting to ask someone you sense is "out of your league", then you have two choices -- let them go for more realistic possibilites or do what is necessary to get in their league!

This works the same way for everyone so---- invite who you like, weather a few rejections, get to know those who said yes, and above all else go slow!

I know girls that I like, I am friendly with them, but look for indications that they like me in more than just a friend way.
Usually if you are enjoying their company and they yours just ask.

trouble is I do not apear to get these vibes, so I am reluctant to ask them out.
Just ask or how will you know?
Nobody likes to be rejected, not liked or their feelings not returned.
If your enjoying each others company you are being liked, and if your friendly the feeling are being returned, if they are friendly. Believe it or not rejection may be disappointing , but you can live thru it. But if you let your fear rule you will never know whether you'll be rejected or not. Get over your own fear, as females have their own fears also.
It is showing another that they are of more value to you than you are to them.
It may start uneven but thats the fun of getting to know and like someone and sharing, and caring. Feelings grow.
To my mind it should be 50 50
Sounds good ,but seldom if ever is true as you must get to know a person over time first. You won't get anywhere expecting it to be automatic, thats something you work for, in a fun way.
Any suggestions guys ?
Your fear is holding you back so its up to you to get over it. Have courage and just do it.

(I guess I do not like the feeling of not being wanted, especially if I want the person a lot). What makes this harder is that I do not just wish to go out with anyone, but look for someone who I am very attracted to and who's personality I like.
We all want that
Guess I have very high standards. The girls I go for, receive a lot of emotional interest from guys but you can't help who you like, can you !
Maybe not but you can help what you do about it. How old are you anyway??

In the following I will use the term person to indicate men and women.


Guys as on observation I have noticed that people always want something that is of value. If it is not of value then it is not wanted.

Now in the arena of attraction (subconsious emotional, instintual reactions)

Contorversial bit ! For discussion.

Everyone of us is attracted to the Very good looking people. Men to supermodels and women to hunks. Now there have been countless studies done that verify that people response totally different to attractive people as opposed to unatractive people. (harsh but true)

Each one of us would if we had the chance date a supermodel or hunk ! (if you think of your ideal person, who you really fancy it will not be an unatractive person... that proves that point).

So I would say from observation and discussions that starting from the bottom up, so to speak.

A bad looking person will be very responcive to the emotional interest of a very good looking person. Good looking man gets bad looking girl to bed easily. Good looking girl get bad looking man running after her.

Same applies for a medium looking person and a good looking person.

Now in reality a bad looking person appears to be of no value to a very good looking person, or to a good looking person, or a medium looking person. But these people are of value to a bad looking person.

A medium looking person has no value for a bad looking person but has value for a good looking person and greater value for a very good looking person.

And so on for a good looking person.

======

Now since we always want something that is of value to us, a bad looking person is looking for a medium looking person, a medium looking person is looking for a good looking person and a good looking person is looking for a very good looking person.

Another convtoversial bit for discussion.

Now women will always be of slightly higher value than men because they have what men want sexually and don't need it as much as men. (they obviously want it as much as men).

So take a bad looking guy, trying to connect with a very good looking girl. He is of no value to her and because he is very far down her acceptable value scale she will reject him in a harsh way ! As will a good looking girl and a medium girl, but they will not reject him in such a cold or harsh way as they will appreciate the interest as shown.

Simaraly take a bad looking girl, trying to connec with a very good looking guy. She is of no value to her and because she is very far down his acceptable value scale he will reject her in a harsh way ! As will a good looking guy and a medium guy, but they again will not be as harsh as they will appreciate the interest shown. (Note also that the guys may use the interest of the girl for sex. It is still rejection just a harsher way).

This is why Very good looking people are total *****es / bas... d to less good looking people (opposet sex or not, as the same principle aplies to social conections as well as emotional, romantic connection)

====

Now if a medium guy tries to connect with a bad looking girl, he will quite often be able to sleep with her (hense the view unatractive girl are easier to bed). Because he is of value to her, as he is higher on her value scale.

But if he tries to connect with a medium attractive girl, she will instictivly be looking for good looking guy. But will not disreacard the medium guy totally because he is near her value scale. So for him to connect with her, he then has to demonstrate personality and value that will raise his value and his atractfullness to her to a point where she sees him as good looking.

Now if a medium girl tries to connect with a bad looking guy, she will quite easily get of with him because she is of value to him, she is higher up his value scale.

But if she tries to connect with medium looking guy, he will be instinctivly looking for a good looking girl. But he will not disreagard the medium girl totally because she is near his value scale. So for him to connect to her, she then has to demonstrate personality and value (sexual or not) so that will raise her value and her atractfullnes to the point where he sees her as good looking.

-=-=-=-

So a woman will only instinctivly iniate an emotional connection (relationship) with someone who is of value to her. She will only respond emotionaly and be receptive to the emotional interest of someone who is of value to her. Better looking on her value scale, or equal in looks, but high degree of personality demonstrated.

The same applieas to a guy.

-=-=---=-=


So if a guy aproaches a girl and she does not consider him of value. Ie up her emotional value scale then she will not entertain his emotional interest in him. The greater the gap the harsher the rejection.

A very good looking girl will fain disgust at a medium looking guys aroach, but not at a good looking guys aproach. But a medium looking girl will not fain disgust at a medium guys aproach. A bad looking girl will be open to a medium guys aproach.

Hense good looking people, whilst not necisarily better in relationship, have more opertunities for partners than do less atractive people.

-=-=

Summ: I hope I have not offended anyone with these obeservations, or my spelling.. lol.

I believe that the process of attraction is an instinctual emotional response and that women and men both go for looks, even thought they may not think it, simply because they have not stopped to think about it.

Now of course other factors do matter ! Status, personality, abuse, weath etc. the list goes on.

But if all other factors were excluded and a guy aproaches a girl or a girl aproaches a guy then the value of appearance is the overiding factor.


-=-=-

Questions: What makes a husband run of with a younger model... Looks.

What makes a girl humiliate a geek but go for a hunk who will sleep with her friends... Looks.

What makes a guy think ugler girls are an easy lay... Looks.

Why are good looking people used to sell products! A product is a product, your being asked to buy the product not the good looking person, so why is a good looking person used.

Why as phycologal epxeriments have show do we offer aid to good looking people but not to bad looking people.

-=-=-=

So I put it to all of you, that we all instinctivly go for looks above personality and we are only open to personality once the looks are acceptable.

*** Point to note: this changes as people get older and their own looks naturally deteriorate, so they view others on personality rather than looks. But we all should view others on personality not looks.

Perhaps this is natural selection in progress ! But for a person to say looks are not considered or are not more important than personality in selecting a mate, I believe they are lying to themselves.

( From my own personal experience, I would say I am medium looking, good looking women snub me, meduim looking women will fall for me, but with an effort from me and bad looking women will hit on me ). If looks do not play apart then all these women should view me near enough the same, I should be able to aproach a supermodel or an unatractive girl and get near enough simialar responses, since we are all human ! But none of us do... Why.. Looks matter

As a good looking man, I object to your insinuations!

Just kidding. I am hopelessly shallow...

But seriously, my friend, you're getting caught up in the semantics of your situation. Understandable - sounds like you went through some troubles that you don't want to lay at your own feet. The truth is you got yourself in this situation and itsn't because your ugly or even of moderate good looks - if those were the only thing at play then how on earth would the human population be where it is today (alcohol? )?

You have other issues at work. You can't control your looks, other than the basics of hygene and keeping in shape. Why worry about something which is out of your control? Work on what you CAN control. Your mental health, your personal out look, your intellect and your personality. These are things you can improve with effort and a positive outlook and believe it or not women WILL respond. You don't have to be Squarejaw Hunkenstein to attract a woman (thought it does help!). There's a girl, out there, who actually has you in mind when it comes to her 'type.' In fact, there's more than one! YOu just have to be a position to be receptive when the time comes. That means forgetting about all this looks and attractiveness bullcrap.

Good luck, my friend. Keep thinking and you'll come to the answers your need eventually but don't get caught up in worrying over things out of your control. Life is too short for that.

Life is too short for that.

Are you kidding? Life is the LONGEST thing you will ever do!

To the real point... Anyone that believes that "looks don't matter" crap, you're only lying to yourself. This world has become to PC. Everyone is afraid they will offend someone else.

Looks do matter. Not only in relationships, but in all aspects of life. If you were a manager would you hire a dirty, unkept person or would you go for the attractive, clean person? I know I wouldn't hire a bum. (No offense to the homeless out there.) If you saw a pretty, blonde girl that had needed a dollar would you give it to her? Sure you would. How about that homeless person sitting outside the bar? I'm going to guess the answer is no. Why? "because he'll only spend it on booze or drugs" Did I get that stereotype correct?

We enter a relationship because we are initially attracted to a person physically, not because they "have a great personality". The animal kingdom works the same way, so this should be nothing that is new or surprising to anyone. There is an Alpha male, he is the toughest of all the males. He is the one that gets the ladies.

There is nothing wrong with being attracted with someone because they are attractive.

Onlineguy, you make fabulous statements. Keep up the great observations. You could go down in history someday!

Look life all about chances, and everyone gets rejected that's a part of life. If you don't take a chance whether your getting vibes or not I guess you'll never know right?

I am medium looking,

That made me laugh really hard. For some reason I thought that would make a great T-shirt.

I personally think I'm higher ugly or lower medium looking.

Looks may matter, but they also don't matter, it depends on the person and it also depends on you. When I first met my boyfriend I wasn't all that interested in him. I wasn't attracted to him right off, he's got a belly, :p even a few of my friends think I'm "too pretty" for him, which makes me upset because I wish they could see him as I see him----a super hot man! A lot of that looks bullsh** fades when you get to know someone and see them for who they are, what they're made of and that's what really matters. Looks are nice, yeah, but when someone knows they're good looking they kind of suck because they can come off as conceited. Not every good looking person is like that, but a lot are. Confidence in yourself (no matter what you look like) shows a lot more than just knowing you're a good looking individual.

I think how you present yourself, and how you perceive yourself matter more in the long run.

I think looks may matter at the beginning but it only goes so far. Anna Nicole Smith was incredibly good looking, and she had money. But there is no way I'd ever spent two hours with her because she had nothing to offer. My guess would be she knew it too which is why she slept around so much. No guy was ever really going to be interested in her.

Britney Spears, even bald, is a pretty girl but she's got nothing else. She's emotionally, intelligectially, and spiritually dead. I could never image spending anytime with someone that far gone.

For the ladies, and this is just off the top of my head but I assume Tom Cruise is good looking. He's also completely nuts and once he fired his publist who kept his lunitc behavior covered up for years the public really saw he had no substance.

On the flip side, I think I can safely say Howard Stern isn't a good looking man. Yet he has beautiful women willing to do anything for him.

All that being said, I think looks to play a part in life and in attraction, no question. I just don't think they mean anything over the long haul. I think looks might help in the initial stages but at some point you have to have something to back it up. You've got to have some kind of foundation of being.

I think it's ridiculous to assume that a person would solely base a relationship on appearance - whether someone else's or their own. A person can be attracted to someone's personality, whether the person is attractive or "ugly." it happens, it's not unheard of. I've fallen for people who I thought were amazing, though physically less appealing than I would've liked.


Shallow people are everywhere, but not everyone is like that.

Oh gosh that was a long post! Didn't read it all but got the jist of it... and most of it I disagreed with.

<<A very good looking girl will fain disgust at a medium looking guys aroach, but not at a good looking guys aproach. But a medium looking girl will not fain disgust at a medium guys aproach. A bad looking girl will be open to a medium guys aproach.>>

All that is absolutely RIDICULOUS!! OK maybe for the younger generation <25 this could be all true, although no as I know a gorgeous 21 year old girl with an ugly 35 year old guy. All his friends wonder how he does it... as they consider themselves all better looking but it is his personality, totally confident and hilarious! Seriously that is what girls want especially in the 20s. In the 30s girls want something more stable.

Ive dated great looking guys like models, normal looking guys, ugly guys and it all depends on the personality that atttracted me.

Personally I like a normal ,manly looking guy with humour and quite confident who can have an interesting and intelligent converation.
I have a gorgeous looking male friend, girls are all attracted to him just because of his looks, I swear you walk in the street with this guy are girls are coming on to him lol. But he suffers also as those kind of girls he attracts usually go from one guy to another.

And as for Tom Cruise, beurrrkkkkkkkkkkk, sorry if you are reading Tom;-)

Ha ha! Yeah Tom Cruise - yuck! He is short and big headed LOL! And chuff you are not the way you describe yourself at all, you don't give yourself enough credit : )

I haven't dated that many guys, but I have dated a guy I did not find physically attractive at all. When I first met him I would never have went out with him. He talked me round though... he seemed to have a way with women. I now wish I had went with my first instincts, he was a two timing rat, who was only after sex and money from people.

I have not been able to read all the post either, but get the jist of it.

See Chuff how the laws of attraction works!! WAP Contacted you lol:)
wap go and read the lawas of attraction thread and you will understand :)

Looks matter but they are not as important as some people make them out to be I won't lie girls with looks will make me turn my head but if she has a really bad personality no matter how good she lookes I won't bother you need more than lookes they are just the beginning you need to be more than a face or a body you need personality to go with them.

I have to agree with Phoenix. Looks will get you noticed, or make you notice, but they won't keep you interesting or interested for long if there's no substance behind them.

Something important that was left out of OLG's original post was the fact that everyone has their own ideas and ideals for what they consider 'attractive'. Tom Cruise definitely does NOT do anything for me, neither does Brad Pitt or most of the other 'Flavor of the Week' Hunks. While they're attractive, they wouldn't get a second look from me if I passed them on a street or saw them at a restaurant or bar.

Also left out is the fact that there are some people who, while not attractive in the purely physical sense of the word, exude a certain something that makes them extremely attractive to others. My best friend is one of these people. She is not a drop dead gorgeous woman, but she attracts both men and women like bees to honey. Much of it has to do with the way she carries herself and her personality. I find it quite fascinating to watch. She neither thinks of herself as attractive nor unattractive.

I've met men who were so attractive that it almost hurt my eyes to look at them, but they had the personality and intellect of a garden snail, I've also met men who were not as physically attractive but after spending time getting to know their personality and their intellect--they actually became more attractive to me.

If all someone is after is something of beauty, yet empty and devoid of any other redeeming qualities, they will never be satisfied. Sort of like sitting down to a sumptous banquet where the food is looks mouth wateringly delicious--only to find that it's all plastic prop food... the eyes may be satisfied, but the hunger still exists.

I still say that beauty comes from within and some might say that this is rubbish but it really is not. Highly attractive people on a physical level can be quite ugly inside but some can also be beautiful inside and also some physically unattractive people can also be ugly inside or attractive inside. I don't believe you can necessarily put a connection between someone's attractiveness physically or emotionally/mentally/spiritually. There are sometimes connections, sometimes not. You must use your instinct to determine this..

This is a funny entry. I can tell you did a lot of research about this issue. I think looks do matter but personality comes after. I think I'm a beautiful gal and I dated hot guys before... I'm not conceited type though so I hate cocky guys. I rather date a man with a lot of heart... even if they're a medium looking man. I'd never go lower than that though. There's really no luck for the ugly people though unless their heart is so big that that's all you can see, or if they have MONEY... haha. But lets just say I'm sure the ugly ones get love too... "from eachother" and from some horny bastards out there... ahaha...

Ha ha! yeah Tom Cruise - yuck! he is short and big headed LOL!

Yeah he’s a tool. I’ve never liked him since I sat through 2 and half hours of “Eyes wide shut” and realized that he is NOT a good actor. NEVER watch that movie! How that thing got okayed is beyond me as it was beyond boring. He’s one of those people I never understood why he was considered an A list movie star. I don’t disagree that he can draw at the box office but he, in my opinion, can not act at all.


and chuff you are not the way you describe yourself at all, you don't give yourself enough credit : )

Reeeeeeeeeeally? Whatever do you mean? Chuff’s warm charm, sense of elegance and self, contributions to international good will, and advanced sense of humor are appealing to the great citizens of Scotland? I do believe my good day has taken a turn for the great!


I haven't dated that many guys, but I have dated a guy I did not find physically attractive at all. When I first met him I would never have went out with him. He talked me round though... he seemed to have a way with women. I now wish I had went with my first instincts, he was a two timing rat, who was only after sex and money from people.

I have not been able to read all the post either, but get the jist of it.

What are your instincts about me saying? You know just curious. I’m not after sex or money. Just smiles.

>>>>"rol agrees: i agree, chuff you are hillariously funny, and intelligent and can have great converations , that is what girls want!!,

Thank you.


>>i can't remember how u looked on that other thread"

I look like Brad Pitt's better looking younger brother.

Actually I wonder if he has a younger brother. Talk about shoes I wouldn't want to be in. Can you imagine what would happen every time he told his lady interests that his brother was Brad Pitt? The interest factor in him is completely gone, but I'm sure they'd stick around to meet Brad.

Hi there.

I need a second opionion. I went out with friends for lunch to a place I quite often go to. I like the waitress there and we always speak, with plenty of eye contact and fun banter.

So as I was leaving I asked her if she would like to go for a drink, she hesitated a little but said yes, so I asked for her number. She gave me this.

I then l8r that day sent her a text saying this is my number so that when I call she will know who it is (Being thoughtfull).

The next day I called her, no reply, phone went to answer machine. (This could have been for a number of reasons). So I sent a text saying that I called to see if she was free on Tuesday. But I received no reply.

So Where Now: If she did not find me attractive, why say yes to a drink and yes to giving me her number ? Only to ignore me when I try to contact her. I find this very rude and this shows a lack of value for me.

Now my dilema: I will be back in the same bar for lunch at the weekend, How should I respond to her. She knows I like her, but has demonstrated she does not like me.

I still like her, but If I pursue her then it will achieve nothing and its me condoning her ignorance.

Or do I simply ackoledge her but act like I am not bothered. In which case I lose out.

What I want to achieve is for her to want me, but without me being a lap dog or accepting such behaviour !

Any suggestions.

Well you called her and nothing, you messaged her and nothing!
Why bother again..

Now when you back to this bar, don't show her that you were disappointed and wondering why this and why that?

I wouldn't say anything to her!
If she interested she will, trust me.

Your too easy, she's playing you man...

Krs is right, act like it didn't bother you at all, if she is playing hard to get she'll be all over you, if she just wasn't interested then move on my man

Drop it, and consider how many guys hit on her at work. She let you down easy, so take the hint. No need to act like an animal.

Walk in the bar, smile at her. But DO NOT bring up the unanswered phone and text messages. The ball is now in her court. If she decides not to play, move on.

Relax :)

You didn’t show her that you liked her – You showed “interest”. Nothing wrong with that. Now you said there was friendly banter, and eye contact, so she may very well have been interested too. Could be she may have a boyfriend already and realized later that she should not have given her number and felt bad about it. That’s a possibility.

Go in to the bar, smile and carry yourself as you normally would. You have nothing to feel bad about.

As far as getting her to “want you”, well, you never can really make anyone feel or do anything. Just be yourself and if she approaches you with a conversation, listen to what she is saying, go slow, relax and be the same guy she originally gave her number to. Not much has changed since that time, so just keep on being you.

If she turns the other way - then just let it be. Could be a number of reasons - none of which you should concern yourself with as more than likely has nothing to do with you.

Either way - go out and enjoy yourself :)

Hi guys, I like this girl who I work with, she is always friendly when I speak, but never seems to go out of her way to speak to me. No indicators of interest. But because she is always very friendly I find myself second guessing if she is interested or not.

Is she just being friendly or is she interested ? Blinded by emotions here.

Do you think its best to continue to make the effort to speak to her and watch to see if she shows signs of interest or accept that there is no interest and leave her alone ?

U know sometimes, women take their own time to open up and some guard their emotions just in case they get hurt later... if you like someone, never give up before u actually get to know the intentions or feelings... and once you are clear... take it further with patience... but remember.. if one is friendly.. doesn't necessarily mean she/he has equal amount of interest in you as you have in them... so don't go overboard with it...

Be as friendly as she is with no expectations of any more than that. You are already blinded by emotions so knowing that, don't let them get you carried away.

i'm just trying to stay sane, myself. i think there's a happy meduim. do NOT contact the dumper, if you are the dumpee. even if that means until the day you die. get thru it one moment at a time. it sucks. IF they contact you, WAIT for 2 contacts before answering. do it sweetly, politely, but with no edge toward telling them you want to get back together. keep it friendly. keep your head together. above all, stay CALM. keep your voice on an even keel. NO MATTER WHAT. just never again for the rest of your life -- even after you're back together again -- NEVER CONACT THEM FIRST.

DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO GO ABOUT WINNING BACK AN EX OR IS THIS JUST NOT POSSIBLE ? ----yes it is.

My partner and I were going through some problems,none of them seemed to be fault of our own,my family was causing a lot of stress for us,I decided to move 250 miles away back home.it was horrible,on the one hand we were so far apart we would never bump into each other, I guess that's a good thing if you are splitting up.on the other hand it was a big change for me, I was living with a member of my family temp,I had no internet,no job etc.
On top of that none of my family like my partner so I got no shoulder to cry on after splitting up with the one I had been with for 4 years.
At the time I had an instant messenger on my phone,we started talking on that,and both admitted we didn't want this,we wanted to be together,but didn't know how...

HAS ANYONE ACTUALLY DONE THIS AND HOW? --
We gave each other a bit of time and space to think about everything, the pro`s and the cons of getting back together/splitting up,even though we both knew that we wanted to be together we still had the space to clear our heads and be on our own for a while... like the saying "go away, give me a chance to miss you".it took 3 months for us to sort everything out. So yes it is possible...

I have been reading on the forums a lot lately about being on a break, and wanting time alone to figure things out... I know its hard,and awful when you don't know where you are,but just give things time, if its meant to be, it will be.

Online guy, you and I are in the same boat and I would like to encourage you to go on with your life. Truly NOT what you want to hear, but IT DOES HELP!! IT DOES WORK!! I just don't want you to be playing sitting duck waiting for her to finally ever decide she wants you. Continue to live your fulfilling life. Other girls may appreciate you!

They always want to know sooner or later how you are, especially if you two have history,and you want to be absolutely FINE if and when she does call not sarcastic or blamey. And remember when she calls, not to assume too much, she could just want to know how you are period. Dot.

I breathe in pain right now. I love this man, but if I truly love him, I would want him to be happy, even if it's not with me. Time away does us all some good.

I'd like to keep in touch!

Ninahhh!

Would you say its true that where as men are attracted to looks first, then how the girl makes him feel, women are atracted to how the man makes her feel then his looks.

Looks are always the first interest, they show how fertile a person is and that's all that our animal instinct wants to know, both man and woman. :)

I always say looks gets you in the door and your personality gets you an invite to stay.

I think that both sexes go on looks first, if you know nothing about someone other then what they look like then yes, you go hey that person is cute. I think for both sexes if you then began to talk to that attractive person and it turned out that they were dense, uninteresting, etc that some of that attractive fades off them.

Agreed!

I saw a documentary on TV, TLC or Discovery or History channel, and that show spoke to how mankind has, without direct communication, collaborated over the millennium in the process of elimination: looks get you noticed first based on a few things. I don't remember all of them. Women wearing lipstick was one. They stated that use makes the women appear more fertile and so more appealing to the man.

Did anyone else see that? I think it was called, "The History of Human Sexuallity"

Look gets audition, Personality gets the part!
If someone is not looking as attractive as he is, I will try to find things beautiful inside of him.
I see things beautifully and I make things beautiful.
It's all in our mind...

Agreed!

I saw a documentary on TV, TLC or Discovery or History channel, and that show spoke to how mankind has, without direct communication, collaborated over the millenium in the process of elimination: looks get you noticed first based on a few things. I don't remember all of them. Women wearing lipstick was one. They stated that use makes the women appear more fertile and so more appealing to the man.

Did anyone else see that? I think it was called, "The History of Human Sexuallity"


Yes I saw that, I believe it was on Discovery channel. It talked about how when a woman appears youthful she is more attractive to a mate (flushed cheeks, red lips, large eyes). And that when a man has rugged features and a muscular frame he is seen as a better provider (remnants of cave man days)

Have heard the term PUA - Pick up Artist. Guys who specialise in seducing women.

Does this sort of thing really work ? Do you women fall for this? Or do you see right through it, play along or get annoyed ?

Interesting question :] I know a few players however its only the sl*ts or those who are insecure and only like 'bad boys' who go for them.

I would imagine the younger ones go for players to.

There is a new show on Vh1 (I don't know if its international or not its just a TV channel) that has some master pick up artist teach some affable losers how to score with the ladies. It shows the pick up artists at work and I have to say I've heard a lot of those lines before and I've walked away. It's a lot of corny stuff that I think appeals to girls with low confidence and low self esteem.

Are you a male pick up artist, do you find success with genuine women or just women who are easy to get in to bed for anyone. Or is that all you are looking for ?

If a guy shows and interest in talking to you, asking about you and he seems like a nice guy. Is there a point where he can ask you out to soon and you will say no or is it better for him to wait and let you initiate some form of interest ?

I think that its important for a guy to read her cues. Is she being genuinely interested in the guy or just being polite? In what circumstances do they know one another? Does the girl not have a boyfriend or dating someone else?

Hello.

If your around the Lady and or her friends so that you can ask about her then you can set something up so you all can do something together. Going out in a group is easy and will give you both the chance to spend some time together without it being a DATE. If things look good at the gathering then ask her to coffee after.

Just remember she might say no the first few times because she could be playing hard to get so don't push her but also don't walk away and never try again.

Dennis777

I think there can be a point where it is to soon, but why not take the chance. If you are itnerested and you like talking to her and you think that she feels the same go for it. If anything just ahng out don't even consider it a date. if you are still completely comfprtable and everything goes great then let her know in a very casual way, you don't want to scare her off =) She could be thinking the same thing right now and you would never know because your afraind it may be too soon... So do something about it =) Alot of girls like a litte bit a a challenge, and a guy to treat her good so do all that and you should have it in the bag!!

Hello.


Just remember she might say no the first few times because she could be playing hard to get so don't push her but also don't walk away and never try agin.

Dennis777


Is this not a contadiction, she might say no the first few time but never try again ? Confused by that, can you clarify?

Is this not a contadiction, she might say no the first few time but never try again ? Confused by that, can you clarify?

You misread it hun...
She said not to walk away and never try again... meaning Do not walk away and do not give up!

Yes, women can play hard to get and some of them are really not knowing you very well.
U might think that they've already known you, but it takes different people different length of period to get ready for the next stage.:)

Good luck.

You misread it hun...
She said not to walk away and never try again...meaning Do not walk away and do not give up!!


Ah! I see... Doh!

Thanks for all the comments, but here is a thing. You say not to give up, which is fair enough but if :

Your not receiving indications of interest back should you stop.

If she goes with someone else whilst your trying to win her over (so to speak) should you stop.

It feels like a very fine line between liking her, pursuing her or making a fool of yourself, no one wants to make a fool of themselves.

Ah! i see... Doh!

Thanks for all the comments, but here is a thing. You say not to give up, which is fair enough but if :

Your not recieving indications of interest back should you stop.

If she goes with someone else whilst your trying to win her over (so to speak) should you stop.

It feels like a very fine line between liking her, persuing her or making a fool of yourself, no one wants to make a fool of themselves.

When you say you are pursuing her, have you told her that you are interested in her or are you just sitting back and waiting for her to tell you she likes you?

I know you don't want to make a fool of yourself, maybe she assumes you are just frineds and has no idea about your feelings for her, sometimes we are blind to things like that. You don't want to stalk her but of course if she is not intrested you don't want to make things awkward and you odn't want to mess up the friendship, so just use your best judgement, if she blows it off the first time you bring it up, stay her friend but don't give up until you honestly believe that there sin't a chance for you to be together, then move on...

Ah! i see... Doh!

Thanks for all the comments, but here is a thing. You say not to give up, which is fair enough but if :

Your not recieving indications of interest back should you stop.

Yes because then you become that weird stalker guy


If she goes with someone else whilst your trying to win her over (so to speak) should you stop.

Yes. Because then she is not interested in you she is interested in the person she is dating and you should never try to break up a coupling


It feels like a very fine line between liking her, persuing her or making a fool of yourself, no one wants to make a fool of themselves.

If she does any of the above then move on. If she is not responsive to you then she is not interested. If she has a boyfriend move on.

U are not a fool OG, the ones that have never tried are!:)

There is really nothing you can do expect for asking her out again. ( no more then 3 times)

If she doesn't tell you what on earth is going on with her, do u have any chance.

She is too complicated then, unless you like to keep the mind game.

If I were you, I will problly drop my interest on her.

If she tells you eventually, she would like to go out with you then that's is perfect!:)

As a man I want a woman who has certain qualities of taking pride in her appearance, making and effort to look good, a good friendly personality and who is interested in me. --- If she demonstrates these qualities of value to me then you will want her.

If she does not demonstrate these qualities then I do not want her.. She is not of value.

Therefor I look for someone who is demonstrating these qualities. That is what I look for in a mate.

The girl who demonstrates these qualities the most is who I will chose.

=========

A Woman wants a man who has certain qualities. If He demonstrates these qualities of value to her then she will want him.

If he does not demonstrate these qualities then she will not want him.. He is not of value.

She looks for someone who is demonstrating these qualities. That is what she looks for in a mate.

The Man who demonstrates these qualities the most is who she will chose.

======

My question is this.

For me to chose a woman I need her to display these qualities of value to me, but women do not do this. (initaite)

Instead they wait for men to Initaite and display these qualities of value that she wants. (Hence pick up artists !). (Jerks etc).

What is it that makes the woman more of value than the man ? We both want fundementally the same things. So why does a man have to do the initiating? Why is it not equal - women generally don't do it.

The only thing I can think of (theory I have) is that men are more visual than women and go for looks as a quality of value above personality as a quality of value (initially) so they have a desire to initaite and be interested in a good looking woman.

Whereas women go for attractive personality qualities of value, over looks first and therefore will only initiate or be interested once they have recognised these personality qualities of value.

---- Therefore if a guy does not initaite and display these personality qualities of value that she likes (Peacocking) she will have no interest in him. Because his appearance is not a priority. Even if he is really the most suitable partner for her.

Therefore if this theory is correct that is why women do not have time for shy guys ! And prefer Guys who are able to demonstrate these qualities of value. Even if the guy is one for sleeping around or is giving her a lot of bull to sleep with her.

(Most guys look at this situation with disbelief ! They know the guy is using her for just sex and that the shy guy is really into her and they cannot understand why she choses not to see this and then complains about being used).

What are your thoughts on this. Girls as well as guys

Does this theory make sense and is there some evolutionary aspect of this.

Fertile woman = looks Stable provider = personality traits.!

Men iniate with women based on her looks, because instinctivly the better looking the more fertile.

Whereas women appear to go for the attraction to the personality traits in men above the physical attributes. And don't initate or show interest until these personality traits have been demonstrated to her by the man.


If that is the case, then why is that ? Or is it a case of women will simply go for the man who shows her the most interest and attention.

Isn't this basically the same question you asked in your previous post?

You realize (hopefully) that the question(s) themselves are not accurate? You can't summarize the actions of either sex so simply?

Don't fully understand the question but because way back when the stronger fitter males survived and were the bread winners, I think it's a instinct in women to look for the top dog to provid healthy kids and a stable life (i.e. good income, a good provider, protection) and men do the same to women the better they look I guess they think we could bear kids and take better care of them cook better please better in bed etc... is that close to the question you were asking?

If a women fancies the person then they will go for them! Same with men.. Surely no/

Not if they have some already