Look, you love your wife and I have a suggestion. If she doesn't go to counseling with you, then ask her to go. She might understand your feelings more if someone else talked with her about your fear of her being too trusting. I do agree it could be dangerous for her.

I'm not suggesting you are a bad person, you need some self confidence and I hope your counselor is helping you do that.

She's with you and if she didn't love you she wouldn't be there.

Thanks KitKat I will ask her

Thanks KitKat I will ask her

You are very welcome clickaus. Have some confidence in yourself. You seem like a nice guy... Kit:)

You can plot and scheme, any worry about culture, and motives all you want. That's irrelevant. The only thing that makes a relationship work between any one is an honest expression of concerns and actions so you can both get on the same page.

That means talking and listening to each other so nobody has to be a mind reader, and you both can have the facts to make adjustments and decisions about.

I can sense the deep rooted fear you are having with talking to her, but unless you do, you will always be strangers to each others wants, needs, hopes, and dreams, and can never working together to resolve any issues you have, and there are many to address.

No Honest Communications, No Marriage. It's that simple so get over your fear, and dig in. No I am not being harsh, just trying to give you advise and motivation to get to the truth of the matter and build the necessary bonds to have a complete relationship with out the shams of mistrust and deceit that paralyzes you from doing the right thing for yourself.

What I'm afraid of is the fear you have of losing her. If you both can communicate and come to terms and change the things that are making you both miserable.

I really hope you will lose the gps and tell your counselor about it.
As I suggested she needs to know exactly what you fear and what causes you to react with mistrust.

I really hope all this can be ironed out. Good Luck

Ive read first 6 pages of this thread then decided to skip ahead to this one.

OP I noticed way back at the start of this thread you mentioned, your last partner or wife, not sure which, had cheated on you?

You said you found this out through the GPS on a phone?

In view of this I would say that's where your problems lie, you're still insecure because of being cheated on in the past, and you have got to come to terms with that or it is going to ruin this relationship or any relationship for that matter.

This insecurity you have about your wife cheating on you or being led astray is nothing to do with what she's done or hasn't done, it's that you've brought your excess baggage from an old relationship into this one. If you resolve that then I feel you will stand more of a chance this time around, you also mention often you want reassurances, from your new wife.

That's unrealistic she cannot spend her time telling you how wonderful or marvellous you are Im sure she shows you in her own way.

If you really want this marriage to work then you need to seriously get these old relationship insecurities out of your head.

Check this link (http://sites.google.com/site/selfhelprelationships/Helplessness) out and see how you fit the description. If you see signs in it that you are having in your own life then follow the suggestions for coping with the areas you can see in your life.

All and any insecurities you have are mainly manifesting because of the past problems you have had, you need to learn to put those behind you, and take this new wife for who and what she is, don't tar her with the same brush.

Hope this helps somehow.

I feel you run a high risk of sending her right into the arms of another man because you obviously don't trust her and that's the surest way of losing her to whatever it is you're not trusting her in.

You have to seek your own validation you cannot get that from anyone else. She's your wife not a source for you being given validation of your own self worth...
Why not just enjoy your time with her and stop obsessing over will she won't she betray me... in doing this you'll be seeing something untowards in every step she makes, she will sense your mistrust and do things without telling you rather than give you more reasons to mistrust her, and a vicious circle is created.

Hi
PositiveParent, thank you for your input. I had a look at your link, but I don't believe this fits who I am, I don't consider myself with the symptoms of Helplessness. I have a fear of losing who I care for. I have a fear of her becoming interested in someone else [by casually getting to know other people], or a fear of someone else getting interested in her [by guys asking her to have coffee with them] In her Chinese culture she thinks of this as being sociable in the Western world guys think of this as picking up. She she sees this as being friendly within her community, I don't see it that way, therefore I get this fear. As you say, she is knows of my concern if she meets up with someone, someone she may think of as a friend, and will not mention it, but if/when I feel or know she has told me different to that then I start to wonder why she has told me a different story to what I see. There lies the vicious circle

clickaus, here's a very basic question for you: How do you make new friends without talking to strangers? Is she supposed to have only female friends? Is she supposed to only have friends that you introduce her to?

She doesn't tell you about everyone she meets and talks to-you get suspicious. She tells you about them-you say you see it differently than she does and get suspicious. What is she supposed to do?

Not every male is looking to make a conquest of every female he meets. I have a very good male friend who introduced me to my husband.

Do you limit your conversations with strangers only to men? Do you smile only at men? Do you ignore the entire female population including your step-daughter?

OP if your wife is keeping things from you its because she knows that by telling you everything it ends up giving her more grief and then you don't trust her anyway, so she's not telling you things, not to deceive you but to prevent you giving her a hard time.

Ive done this with an ex of mine because in being honest all it got me was more hassle, so I just said nothing.

You may not like this but if you don't stop this you're going to drive her away, you're also making her life unhappy by not trusting her, and these trust issues you have are all mostly in your own mind and the result of your not resolving issues from a past relationship.

You're turning into a control freak, mild one maybe none the less you're still trying to control your wife.

She's going to end up being damaged by something she's totally innocent of, she's a human she's entitled to make friends male or female, you don't own her.

From what Ive heard about oriental ladies they make excellent loving and faithful wives.

You're the creator of your own unhappiness. No one else.
The following might help

Working Through Your Trust Issues
By: L. Lee Scott

At the root of all trust issues is a past betrayal. Whether abused as a child or cheated on by a spouse, the betrayed person will go through life seeing herself as less desirable than others, or believing herself to be unlovable. She will keep others at a distance, avoiding intimate relationships. Only by working through these trust issues - or, rather, lack of trust issues - can the person learn to maintain a healthy boundary while still letting others in.

The deepest issues stem from child abuse, whether sexual, physical or emotional. Sexual and physical abuse are easier to be aware of as an adult, but emotional abuse can cause even more psychological problems and trust issues in an adult abuse survivor. As children who were abused grow up, they may perceive that others will not love them for making mistakes or behaving in certain ways. They also might have a hard time saying "no" to people they care about and people in positions of authority.

All humans are born with a fundamental need to be loved and to love. When children don't receive love, as adults they'll feel a lack of self-worth, that their feelings don't matter, that they lack personal power and that they are unlovable. With these thoughts can come an inability to trust others or their own gut feelings, or a pattern of continuing to trust the wrong people.

When an adult is in an intimate relationship and is betrayed by a partner - whether cheated on, abandoned or abused - she may internalize some of the same ideas as the abused child. She feels powerless, unlovable, and that she is responsible for the betrayal or deserved it.

If, at this point, the adult doesn't begin to realize that these internal beliefs are flawed and can hurt her just as much as the hurtful betrayal of another, she'll go on to develop relationships with other abusers or to find inappropriate coping mechanisms such as addictions, perfectionism, misplaced anger or symptoms of physical illness such as high blood pressure or migraines. In any case, she may find herself unable to trust another person enough to form a truly intimate relationship.

To work through your trust issues, you need to recognize the source of the betrayal and the cause of your anger. If you've been wearing a mask of "I don't care" or "I don't need anyone," it's time to drop the mask and examine yourself. If the betrayal occurred in childhood or hurt you very deeply, it can be helpful to have a therapist or counselor advise you as you work through these issues.

After you dig up and acknowledge your real feelings, it's time to understand and express them. Even in an otherwise healthy relationship, it's easy to express your feelings the wrong way. For example, you may say, "You never come home when you say you will," after your partner stays out too late. Remember that you're responsible for your own feelings and actions, and you can't control the other person's behavior.

Say instead something like, "I felt hurt and worried last night, and I don't like feeling like that." Focusing on your feelings instead of the other person's behavior may help him to actually listen and hear you. If he does listen to you, you've both made a step towards resolving your trust issues. If, on the other hand, he refuses to listen to how you feel, you may want to reassess the relationship. Just the act of stating or owning your feelings is a step toward recovering trust.

Next, you need to examine your history of relationships. If you see a pattern of behavior, such as repeatedly choosing people who are verbally or physically abusive, you should consider changing both the behavior and your boundaries, two important factors in trust issues. Boundaries can be externally physical (like "your space" or "comfort zone"), sexual (you determine when, where, how and with whom you choose to be sexual), or internal and emotional (only you are in control of how you feel and what you think, and the same is true for others).

You need to "say good-bye" to past abuses or betrayals after seeing how they've been affecting your life. It's likely that you haven't truly done that, even if you think you have. Then you can grieve for those memories you've put behind you. You're giving up an old familiar way of thinking and acting, and that can be both difficult and painful. But it is a vital step in resolving your own trust issues.

Finally, use what you've learned about your feelings and your boundaries to establish relationships in which you assume responsibility for your feelings and actions, and the other person does the same. By healing past betrayals, forgiving the betrayer and yourself - especially your child-self - and taking responsibility for your adult-self, you can reestablish your ability to trust and overcome your trust issues.

http://www.life123.com/relationships/issues/signs-bad-relationship/working-through-your-trust-issues.shtml

Take the advice you have been given. I wish you you luck and I hope you and your wife will have a long and happy marriage.

It's possible... but you have to stay in counseling and let up a little.
Let her have friends and don't question everything she does.

Every woman needs her own friends and so do you. Good Luck.

Or perhaps you could try this exercise.

Fear
Fear is the opposite flow to need - accompanying any need for something is an equivalent fear of losing or not obtaining it.

We may become attached to the solutions we find for obtaining our needs - needs for love and affection, control and mastery, and for self-esteem and to find and fully express one's true self. Underlying those attachments is fear.

A basic principle of Buddhist doctrine is that attachment leads to suffering, and to be truly happy in life we do better to replace fear with acceptance.

What we resist persists. When a belief, feeling or physical sensation is stuck and just won't go away this is usually due to a lack of acceptance, underlined by fear. We resist and this only empowers and validates that which we don't like, or hate or fear.

The most powerful antidote to fear is our natural ability to accept.

To accept a situation does not mean we are pleased with it or resigned to it, rather it is being ourselves without demanding our past and present experience to be anything other than what it is. It is an aspect of love.

So let's find something that we are not confronting - that we don't feel able to accept as it is - either in our past or current circumstances. The clue is fear - fear that a past experience will happen again or fear that we will lose something precious to us.

For example, I may fear that my partner will find another man attractive and that is reinforced by a previous experience when a lover did indeed choose another man in place of me. That's a painful memory that I don't want to recur.

What am I not confronting? That my partner - in the past and in the present too - does have a choice. Behind my lack of acceptance is one or more irrational beliefs or thought distortions.

These lies or untruths cloud my viewpoint - I am not seeing clearly so how can I accept what is? So I need to looker deeper and in each case spot that what my mind is telling me is not helpful - really I know better. If I look honestly and drop my ego attachment...

False assumption: They have no right to choose another!
Truth: Do I have the right to choose my partner? Er, yes.
Negative thinking: I am not good enough to keep a woman!

Truth: Who says? Me - well I can change my mind about that then. Besides my present relationship is going well, it's me that's creating this idea.

Generalization: All women are unfaithful!
Truth: And all men too? What women do I know that are faithful? Erm, lots.
Heaven's reward: It's not fair, I stayed with her for years, I deserve better!

Truth: Yes, I deserved to be loved and still do, but I wasn't going to get that from a person who wanted to move on. That's the reality. I wish her well. And now I do have a loving relationship.

Intolerance: It's not OK that I am not the person she wants as a partner!
Truth: Well, my current partner hasn't said that, quite the opposite. I'm projecting the past situation, that it wasn't OK that she left. But I realize now that it was for the best for both of us. If it happened again the same would be true.

Exaggeration: No women want me, I'm ugly and boring!
Truth: That's what I think about myself. But actually plenty of women have found me attractive, including my present partner.
Try this process and I'm sure you'll find some insights that can change your life around.

positive-workout (http://sites.google.com/site/positiveworkout)

Thanks everyone.
I recognise that what I have is fear based. Fear

Thanks everyone.
I recognise that what I have is fear based. Fear that my wife will find someone else more attractive, more interesting through meeting more people. Yesterday her friend [woman] flew in to visit her daughter who is studying here. Her husband didn't come with her. She is staying with Kevin [those who have been following will know who Kevin is]. I discovered that my wife went to visit Kevin at his apartment despite her promising that she wouldn't do that. When I called and I asked if she had been there she denied it and suggested I was crazy. Later she mentioned that her friend had flewn in and would to spend the afternoon with her. She spent the afternoon she walked through the city and the botanical gardens and really enjoyed herself I was pleased and very calm. So I an fine when she meets her women friends, no threat. But get very anxious if I suspect she has met up with a male friend. Your info non fear helps a little but I still get anxious if she meets guys. Sorry that's me I don't know how to get passed this. I am continuing with conselling. And I have decided to have a good conversation with my wife on Sunday to try to explain my feelings and behaviour hopefully ask her to be more honest, and to allow me to know her friends as I have her. Hopefully it will be a start.

Did you ever actually get Kevin over to dinner and start getting to know him yourself?

Hi QLP
Yes we did get him over for dinner and Friday my wife, her daughter, her friend from China, Kevin and I also went out for dinner. He is a family friend from China and apparently a link in this country for from them as he has been here for 4 years whilst my wife and her friend are new to this country, therefore they look to him for guidance I guess. I accept that he is a family friend. But I am still not comfortable with my wife spending too much time with him. A couple of time she spent 2 hours over coffee and went grocery shopping. Last Thursday I suspect she went to his apartment even after she promised she wouldn't do that again. I don't believe there is anything going on between them as I said I now accept that they are family friends, but my old fashioned western view tells me that it is inappropriate for a married woman to visit a guys apartment or spend too much time with single male friends. Today I will have a heart to heart with my wife in order to answer a couple of nagging questions honestly and for me to try to explain quite calmly why I have this fear that makes me this way..

Hi QLP
Yes we did get him over for dinner and Friday my wife, her daughter, her friend from China, Kevin and I also went out for dinner. He is a family friend from China and apparently a link in this country for from them as he has been here for 4 years whilst my wife and her friend are new to this country, therefore they look to him for guidance I guess. I accept that he is a family friend. But I am still not comfortable with my wife spending too much time with him. A couple of time she spent 2 hours over coffee and went grocery shopping. Last Thursday I suspect she went to his apartment even after she promised she wouldn't do that again. I don't believe there is anything going on between them as I said I now accept that they are family friends, but my old fashioned western view tells me that it is inappropriate for a married woman to visit a guys apartment or spend too much time with single male friends. Today I will have a heart to heart with my wife in order to answer a couple of nagging questions honestly and for me to try to explain quite calmly why I have this fear that makes me this way..



She's probably afraid you'll get angry if she tells you the truth. Please be more trusting. Don't nag and please don't use the gps.

Hi QLP
Yes we did get him over for dinner and Friday my wife, her daughter, her friend from China, Kevin and I also went out for dinner. He is a family friend from China and apparently a link in this country for from them as he has been here for 4 years whilst my wife and her friend are new to this country, therefore they look to him for guidance I guess. I accept that he is a family friend. But I am still not comfortable with my wife spending too much time with him. A couple of time she spent 2 hours over coffee and went grocery shopping. Last Thursday I suspect she went to his apartment even after she promised she wouldn't do that again. I don't believe there is anything going on between them as I said I now accept that they are family friends, but my old fashioned western view tells me that it is inappropriate for a married woman to visit a guys apartment or spend too much time with single male friends. Today I will have a heart to heart with my wife in order to answer a couple of nagging questions honestly and for me to try to explain quite calmly why I have this fear that makes me this way..

Communicating with your wife is good. The only problem is all the focus is on YOUR needs and fears. I am not dismissing them, of course they are important, and I sincerely hope the counselling will help you address them in time.

However, your head is so full of them you seem to have lost the art of empathy to an extent. It happens when our own feelings are overwhelming. Can I suggest that before you next have a talk with your wife you sit and try and picture yourself in her shoes. Imagine yourself in a strange country where you feel your communication skills are lacking. Imagine how it feels to not understand the culture and be constantly questioned about your natural behaviour because it doesn't seem to fit in. Imagine your partner is busy at work and you are left to your own devices to navigate this strange place. Imagine there is a familiar face who can help you learn to fit in and who understands where you come from. Try and feel for yourself how strong the need to have that contact with something familiar would be. Now imagine that your partner is unhappy about it, you don't want to hurt them but you cannot tend to your own needs alone. Imagine how torn that must make you feel. I mean really try and feel what it would be like to be in your wife's position. Then try and communicate from a position of understanding of BOTH of your needs and fears.

Thanks, good reasoning.
How do I learn to be more trusting, less paranoid and less jealous whilst still asking to be 'in the loop' as it were, as communication does need to be both ways. We had a heart to heart at the weekend. Didn't go well as she got upset, I was calm, I needed answers to some questions. I also I understand, because of my current nature, why she chooses to tell me stories or hide the truth, but I explained that by telling me stories I can sense when something doesn't add up and it makes me more anxious, so I prefer her to be honest. I asked about her going to the rear of her old apartments... she again denied, then I showed her how I knew, of course again she wasn't happy, but then she said she went down there so it was quiet to talk to me on the phone, not true, then she said she had nothing to do so she walked there just for somewhere to go, it was a dead end and she knows that that didn't make sense... so I still believe she was hiding something but I wasn't able to get that without making the whole thing worse. I fear, as I have been advised, if I am not careful I will damage something special to me.. I have said I will try hard to correct my ways, somehow, and she agrees to be more honest in her communications with me. I truly hope that this will be the start of a different outlook. It will be hard for me but I need to do something. I am still seeing the counselor and will ask if she thinks I should ask my wife to attend. Thanks you all for your patience.

I think I myself have no more imformation to give or advice. I wish you the best.

Thanks Kitkat for all you have said thus far. I will try to take everything onboard and will try to change my thinking. Regards

Thanks Kitkat for all you have said thus far. I will try to take everything onboard and will try to change my thinking. Regards

Same to you and there will be other who will answer your questions... Good Luck:)

You change your behavior by changing your thinking. Most of us have formed bad habits by doing them over and over, for a long time so to reprogram your brain you practice doing the right things the right way over and over for a long time until the new habit becomes second nature and the old way is forgotten.

It's a matter of practicing and takes patience, and time, as making adjustments can be hard and frustrating at first, but gets easier as you keep doing it.

Thank you Talaniman I will try to adjust my frame of mind... My wife admitted telling lies about meeting up with Kevin. She says to avoid conflict knowing how I am saying also that she can look at me and say she has not done anything wrong. Although she says she did lie it wasn't a big or bad lie... I said that maybe so but it was lie enough to make me worried... perhaps about the wrong thing but without any other information it was enough to make me worried, which fuelled much of my behaviour. Now I have to adjust my behaviour and hope and trust she adjusts her behaviour. Thanks guys.

Just a footnote: After having this heart to heart over the weekend. I discovered an entry in her diary for this week reminding her it is Bruce's Birthday... who the hell is Bruce. She keeps telling me she doesn't have any friends here. What am I supposed to think and how am I supposed to act? I am so confused. Trying to do the right thing and it seems I get another kick.


Of course the entry was written in Chinese. So it was difficult for me to read. Just don't know how to react to this.

Thank you Talaniman I will try to adjust my frame of mind... My wife admitted telling lies about meeting up with Kevin. She says to avoid conflict knowing how I am saying also that she can look at me and say she has not done anything wrong. Although she says she did lie it wasn't a big or bad lie... I said that maybe so but it was lie enough to make me worried... perhaps about the wrong thing but without any other information it was enough to make me worried, which fuelled much of my behaviour. Now I have to adjust my behaviour and hope and trust she adjusts her behaviour. Thanks guys.

Just a footnote: After having this heart to heart over the weekend. I discovered an entry in her diary for this week reminding her it is Bruce's Birthday... who the hell is Bruce. She keeps telling me she doesn't have any friends here. What am I supposed to think and how am I supposed to act? I am so confused. Trying to do the right thing and it seems I get another kick.




Why were you going through her diary? Bruce could be someone back home. Are going to grill her about him? I thought you had learned something through all these post and then you snoop through her diary. I don't know what to say.

Me either

me either

Look you love your wife. Tal and the others have given you wonderful advice. Don't revert back to where you were when you first posted here.
You are making progress and taking baby steps toward having more self
Confidence. Give your wife a break. How fluent is your Chinese?

Bruce could be a friend of hers from China. Please don't start doing the cross examination again and don't worry about Bruce. Keep seeing your counselor and stop worrying about every little move she makes.
You are a nice guy and probably a handsome guy. If she didn't love you she wouldn't be there. Have some self esteem. Okay?:)

Thanks KitKat
I don't believe Bruce is someone from China, I could be wrong.
I am a basket case sometimes I know. I just get so frightened. I still see the counselor once a week. Cheers I do appreciate the help


My Chinese is not so great to be honest. Just a few words in Cantonese [my wife speaks Mandarin] and I only recognize maybe a handful of characters, certainly not enough to make any sense of.

My Chinese is not so great to be honest. Just a few words in Cantonese [my wife speaks Mandarin] and I only recognize maybe a handful of characters, certainly not enough to make any sense of.

Don't assume anything until you see it with your own eyes. I don't think your wife is cheating. God Bless You

Bruce could be anyone including a boyfriend/ex-boyfriend of her daughter, a past co-worker, a friend, or even a family pet. I used to have Chris' Birthday marked on my calender. Chris was our dog. Are you going to get yourself worked up over every name you don't recognize?

It could be a trap to see if you are invading her privacy by reading (or trying to) her diary.

If only you would stop acting out of fear, and impulse, you would be a more relaxed guy. But the more you snoop, the more questions your mind has, and the more you start to question everything.

From your talk with your wife, you should know she feels she has to shade the truth with you already, and that's not a good sign, and that's what you have to work on. Making her comfortable to tell you the whole truth without recrimination.

Now your snooping through her diary, and getting carried away by an entry you can't even understand. Just another thing for you to freak out on, and make you see yet another boogy man, around yet another corner.

I highly suggest you come clean about your insecurities, and maybe together you can unpack your past baggage and get on some normal ground. I feel she has to know, so she can be brutally honest with you, or you will find yourself driving her away by the way you let small thing grow into big scary things.


Quote by Clickaus in April, 2010
We have know each other just a few months.
Met in Early January, went on a mini break on 26 Jan and Proposed, married March 7.
(They have been together a total of 8 months!! )

Know also that a factor in all this is the fact that you have to be a lot more open than most married couples, because you didn't have the benefit of much courtship, or dating, and the motives behind this marriage was more about what she represented to you, than what you both shared over time.

You never got to know, love, and accept her, because you never spent the time to find out, and even now, at best, neither of you have had a chance to explore the depth of your characters, and personalities, so you don't have the skills to work together to solve your issues, as if the time was taken to know one another well, I seriously doubt you would be married.

Now your are dealing with the process of gaining knowledge of each other, and gaining trust to be honest and open with each other. For most this takes a few years of dating, talking, listening, and interacting, but as your finding out, its really difficult to compress years of learning about one another, into a few MONTHS and under the constraints of marriage, which is a lifetime commitment, and requires plenty of thought.

You skipped all that, and went straight in with much baggage (thats getting in the way of a true honeymoon), and are now scuffling to make sense of what you have done. That's an enormous process that you don't seem to have the skills, or the patience for, and if I were in your shoes, I would lay the whole mess on the table, so you both can see what's going on, and come to an agreement of how to move forward, and how to define the boundaries of good behavior so you can either build something, or leave each other alone.

That's how healthy people would deal with things, and not let fear keep leading you down these dark, and destructive paths.

To bad you can't just relax, and enjoy the process, instead of throwing obstacles at yourself.

Hi
From her cultural background. Meeting new people and meeting for coffee or a meal seems to be the norm. So for her she thinks making new friends for a chat or a coffee is normal, here, there is a different mindset... and for me it is intimidating especially when, it seems, it appears that we are talking about just guys.. if she told me she had met a woman at the mall with similar interests and background that would be great, she would truly have someone she could interact with without the complications that comes with the opposite sex relationships in a friendship. Its OK everyone telling me that I shouldn't do this or feel like that... It has to work both ways surely.

Some women don't like other women. I have met some. Is she like that or is she close to some women?

She does have one woman friend here who she meets maybe once a week although over the past 2-3 weeks she has been overseas unsure when she will be back. And recently she had a woman friend visit from China with whom she enjoyed the company. I guess I just feel intimidated (insecure) and uncomfortable if/when she meets new people who happen to be guys, even if its Kevin, the family friend from China especially when she spend too long with him (in my opinion)

I'm glad she can hang out with women. It sounds like she could use some more women friends if her one close friend is out of town. Does she have a hobby that would bring her into contact with more people generally?

Hard to tell but it does seem like she needs to talk to other people besides you (no offense!). I mean anyone would. So if someone's friendly, it's probably a relief to chat.

Give her some breathing room. I agree with "wishing", everyone needs friends they can talk too.

I agree, everyone needs friends but I don't agree with consciously complicating a relationship by unconsiously inviting new friends into our lives. If they are like minded couples, fine. Single males not fine. I am not holding a double standard here I too will not invite new single women friends into our lives. That is the point I am trying to make.

Try this, date your wife and get to know her as if she was a stranger (she is), since you skipped the process before, and stop acting like, or expecting to be, a long established couple who are comfortable with each other.

That 90% of your problem, you have rules in your head that you put on her, and expect her to know your history and feelings, and why you're the insecure, scared, still hurt from the past and comparing her to the woman who hurt you.

Not only might it be fun, you may actually learn to trust her enough to enjoy her.

So stop stalking her and freaking yourself out, and recognize the need to make up for what was skipped, and retrace your steps to the dating phase and have some fun. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes, correct past mistakes, and try to move forward.

What's the worst that could happen? Divorce? Your already headed that way, so just try it. Instead of stalking, blow her mind with activities, and actions that will make good memories, and stop being a scared old stuffed shirt, who stalks his female, and snoops through her personal stuff.

Try it, or drown in your own sh1t!!

Good call. I am on the case. Regards

Get your act together and STOP acting like a victim. You are headed for DIVORCE if you don't wake up and stop being her ruler instead of a husband.

I understand.. but please remember she didn't help this by lying and or making up a story that wasn't true or didn't add up... but I am heading in the right direction I think, I hope. Thanks to everyone.

Hi
From her cultural background. Meeting new people and meeting for coffee or a meal seems to be the norm. So for her she thinks making new friends for a chat or a coffee is normal, here, there is a different mindset... and for me it is intimidating especially when, it seems, it appears that we are talking about just guys.. if she told me she had met a woman at the mall with similar interests and background that would be great, she would truely have someone she could interact with without the complications that comes with the opposite sex relationships in a friendship. Its OK everyone telling me that I shouldn't do this or feel like that... It has to work both ways surely.

Unless your wife is putting herself in danger why does she need to conform to anyone's cultural norms? Heck I can't count the ways that I don't conform to average expectations. So what? At the weekend my hubby and I went to help our son move house. I ended up on 'guard' duty standing by the van whilst hubby and son brought stuff down to load. Boring job. The consierge came out for a smoke so we ended up chatting away for ages. He happened to be a guy. Again so what. If it had been a female that was around for a chat then that is who I would have been chatting with. I love meeting new people regardless of gender. Maybe your wife just happens to have met more men then women up to now.

Sure, in that situation seems fine and 'normal' enough, but you wouldn't dream of accepting an invitation to go have coffee with him, I would hazzard a guess, but I would think your husband would have an awkward feeling should that have been the scenario. Am I wrong?

Sure, in that situation seems fine and 'normal' enough, but you wouldn't dream of accepting an invitation to go have coffee with him, I would hazzard a guess, but I would think your husband would have an awkward feeling should that have been the scenario. Am I wrong?

Clickaus.. I am friendly with everybody. My husband knew that when he married me. I have male friends from high school, who always call when they are in town. I invite them for coffee. My husband is here. I went to a college football game with a friend from high school because my husband and him are friends. I talk with strangers..

There are several friend from high school who get together about every two years and we have dinner. Some are male some are female. Sometimes my husband goes sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes wives come without husbands and vice versa. I can assure you we DO NOT
Tear each others clothes off and get into a pile. My husband and I trust each other.

That's what love is. Being with friends without your spouse doesn't always end up in an affair or an orgy or casual sex or sex .

I understand that these are, usually, old friends [from school] or at least, mutual friends, friend you both know. Would your husband be so understanding should you decide to have a coffee with one of those strangers you talk to.. more to the point would you even mention to him that you had a coffee with a stranger, if not what would be the scenario had he found out you did this. I don't think my feelings and fears are not a million miles away from the thoughts of any other male, whether that admit it or not it is in their thoughts albeit at the back of their mind. Mine has been accentuated by the fact that I found my wife lied to me at the beginning, admittedly to shield the wrong response, but in doing so caused the wrong thinking which unfortunately stuck in my head which in turn has been the cause of the preceding 293 postings in this site [which again I do appreciate the response]. My wife and I have talked, sometimes at length sometimes just as I am about to leave for work... but we are talking and I believe we are finding a level ground of understanding.

ERROR: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kitkat22 again.

TRUST, the foundation for any healthy relationship. I bet my wife would scare the beezesis, out of you clickaus, she will buy coffee for any one!! But her guy friends are pretty cool, and she stole my female friends from me a long time ago.

ERROR: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kitkat22 again.

TRUST, the foundation for any healthy relationship. I bet my wife would scare the beezesis, out of you clickaus, she will buy coffee for any one!!!! But her guy friends are pretty cool, and she stole my female friends from me a long time ago.

I agree Tal.. I've sat at the mall while my husband is in the sporting goods store and talked with people I didn't know. Mostly other men waiting for their wives. And yes a few have bought coffee for me. I didn't have sex with them. My husband talks with woman when I'm shopping. He doesn't know them. That'a just the way we are TRUST

Clickaus,
You HAVE to work on your self-esteem. Also, take care of yourself and work out! You will feel much better about yourself and the endorphins will provide a way to deal with your negative feelings about yourself. Read some great, uplifting books- try Wayne Dyer, Eckhardt Tolle, and Byron Katie. Do some introspection to figure out what is making you so insecure. Start telling yourself some nice things about YOU in the mirror. You will find that you are less threatened and will notice your wife will be happier too! If you keep thinking she'll leave you, eventually she might. There is nothing worse than being with someone who is uncomfortable in his own skin. She loves you, or she wouldn't have married you. You must STOP devaluing yourself and start seeing yourself for your positive qualities! GOOD LUCK! It starts now : )

Thanks Letitbe appreciate your thoughts

I understand that these are, usually, old friends [from school] or at least, mutual friends, friend you both know. Would your husband be so understanding should you decide to have a coffee with one of those strangers you talk to.. more to the point would you even mention to him that you had a coffee with a stranger, if not what would be the scenario had he found out you did this. I don't think my feelings and fears are not a million miles away from the thoughts of any other male, whether that admit it or not it is in their thoughts albeit at the back of their mind. Mine has been accentuated by the fact that I found my wife lied to me at the beginning, admittedly to shield the wrong response, but in doing so caused the wrong thinking which unfortunately stuck in my head which in turn has been the cause of the preceeding 293 postings in this site [which again I do appreciate the response]. My wife and I have talked, sometimes at length sometimes just as I am about to leave for work... but we are talking and I believe we are finding a level ground of understanding.

In all honesty the pair of you got off to a bad start. You didn't trust her behaviour and she didn't trust your reaction and started lying. Trust is about more than whether the other person is cheating it is also about trusting the other person with our feelilngs. You don't feel safe due to jealousy, your wife doesn't feel safe because of you constantly doubting her, she lies and you feel even more unsafe, you check up on her...
I can see how this would make for a viscious circle.

I am glad that you feel you are beginning to reach a new level of understanding. A lot of your jealousy stems from the past and I'm sure the couselling you are receiving will help you deal with that better in time. Maybe a little couples counselling might be helpful too to help the pair of you break the circle you have unwittingly set up. I can see where your wife's behaviour hasn't been helpful. Not in being friendly but in not remaining honest about it. I can see why she lied but I can also see how this hasn't helped. The pair of you need to build a new foundation and maybe some outisde help together would expediate this.

Clikaus,

I agree with letitbe1111. You sound like you're letting insecurity make you a bit jealous. In all honesty, not being able to trust your wife may end up driving you apart - the opposite of what you want. Take care of yourself, work out, and focus on being the best person you can be... the rest will take care of itself.

One of my friends is an abuse survivor and they have trouble trusting in a relationship... Here's an article that describes their issue I think (in case you have come from an abusive background): Why the Good Enough Factor Builds Trust In a Relationship And Avoids Jealousy (http://www.zentactics.com/trust-in-a-relationship.html)

This sounds like more of your issue than hers. First of all, trust is everything in a marriage, and you need to trust her. She sounds like a very nice girl, and I'm sure she has enough sense to not give the wrong impression to guys. You can't be with her 24 hours a day, so you can't be worried about this all the time. Don't blame her for something that hasn't happened yest, because if you do, you could push her into doing things that will really make you jealous. Just remember, that you know that no matter how friendly she is, she goes home with you. You're the lucky one

Clickus it sounds like you would benefit by finding out a bit more about the immigrant Chinese community and the common practices. She may be doing what is very common for people from China in a new country.

Can you get involved her culture maybe take a course in Chinese or volunteer to help new immigrants to read or settle in. Ask your wife for advice on how you can help. As her husband, I am certain Kevin would like to get to know him too. Why not call him for suggestions about language courses or Chinese cultural classes, or ways that you could volunteer in the Chinese community.

Do you and your wife have any activity in common. If not, find something you both enjoy doing. You mentioned being overweight and feeling uncomfortable about it. I'll bet you can work off a lot of nervous energy and lose weight by hitting the gym.

Try very hard to decrease surveillance of your wife and instead get to know her and her friends. Invite them over frequently for meals and go to their houses or out to events. The more you get to know her, her culture, language and friends the more shared history you will develop and feel more secure in the relationship.

My wife keeps raising the subject about her interest in learning massage, that is traditional chinese massage. She went to see a friend who has a business offering the service of health therapy which I later found to be the kind where the client gets naked and has oils applied etc etc... I was not at all comfortable with this as firstly the clients were mostly male, my wife is asian and in the western world, sadly, when guys think of massage and asian they usually associate it with sex. I explained this to my wife, she was a little shocked and agreed that she would look for another career. All fine but as my wife currently cannot work while waiting for immigration visas she is very bored with nothing to do. So she keeps bringing up the topic of learning massage. She found another friend who seems to have a respectable business in a shopping mall offering a service of traditional chinese therapy and acupuncture and went to see her. Later my wife explained that this friend was willing to teach her if she wanted to. She asked my opinion. I still wasn't comfortable about the prospect of my wife having body contact with another guy. Traditional chinese massage usually involves just neck and shoulders. I have seen the place and it is all clinical like all open and frosted glass screens within a shopping mall, and most of the clients are female office workers. So again my wife has raised the subject and wants to look further into this. I have reluctantly agreed that she should look and evaluate for herself.. but I cannot come to grips with the prospect of her being paid my some guy to make them feel good, it just isn't making me feel comfortable and unsure how I can concentrate on my day when I know my wife is there... How do I handle this situation without appearing to control my wife.

By keeping your mouth shut and letting her do her thing. Would you rather she slop pigs or something?? Okay that last comment was uncalled for but you would probably freak out at anything she did outside the house, and I notice you had no suggestions either, when she asked your opinion.

Seems she is going to do it any way, so make the most of it, and volunteer to be her practice dummy... er... client.

By keeping your mouth shut and letting her do her thing. Would you rather she slop pigs or something??? Okay that last comment was uncalled for but you would probably freak out at anything she did outside the house, and I notice you had no suggestions either, when she asked your opinion.

Seems she is going to do it any way, so make the most of it, and volunteer to be her practice dummy...........er..........client.

Too late click.. you already control her. You "agreed" to allow her to look into this? What are you a Daddy or a husband? You aren't going to stop your controlling attitude. You better be glad you're not married to me. You would have been history a long time ago.

Clickaus, do you see yourself as her boss or her partner? Do you see the two of you building a life together or do you see yourself building a life for her to live? Do you see the difference?

You know that what she wants to do has nothing to do with sex, but that is where your mind goes to when you think of what interests her. If she waited tables in a diner, would you think about her being on her feet, hot and tired all day long or the male customers who might smile and say more than 'more coffee'?

Think of it this way, what she wants to do helps people. You may be thinking in terms of sex, but there are people who need the relief that acupressure and massage can bring. People who suffer from headaches (even migraine suffers can get some relief), backaches, muscles that are so knotted up that it affects their nerves, etc. Learn more about what she wants to do and the people who actually use these services instead of thinking about stereotypes and letting your over active imagination make up scenarios.

Instead of imagining her 'servicing' a man, think about her helping someone who without her help wouldn't be able to pick up a paper cup or would be bedridden with a major headache.

You are right, you comment was uncalled for. Although I have some issues I respect and love my wife, she was a medical practitioner for over 20 years in China, I just don't want to see her degrading herself just for the sake of a job.. dealing with people in a hospital situation is different to dealing with people with pleasure on their mind. I am very protective of that for her, for me and for her daughter.
But I do see your point Cat... its just that the first place she went to was a little suspect. The second place in the shopping mall has a better feel to it. With reference to 'my opinion' I just asked why she couldn't work in a flower shop as she likes tending to her garden. She said that would be perfect... but she keeps bringing up the topic of massage. Daddy or Husband... we both have to consider the other partner in day-to-day life as we both have to feel comfortable in any situation be it work choices, social or otherwise. Thanks guy, haven't been here for a while as things were reasonably stable.. just every now and then something crops up that I have trouble processing.
Like the other day I went to our local shopping mall to sort out some medical forms during the day, as I walked past the food court I spotted my wife having coffee and a chat with Kevin... my heart skipped a beat but I said nothing and continued to sort out my errands... later I called my wife and explained I was at the mall on an errand perhaps we could meet up, she told me she was in the supermarket!! Later at home I asked her about her day, not a mention about meeting Kevin.. I asked about him and she said oh yes... I was upset because I keep feeling she is doing this behind my back rather than treating him as the family friend she maintains he is and include him in conversation about her day, 'Oh I saw Kevin today, we had a chat and coffee', rather than say nothing and make the whole situation seem what it is not...

Like the other day I went to our local shopping mall to sort out some medical forms during the day, as I walked past the food court I spotted my wife having coffee and a chat with Kevin... my heart skipped a beat but I said nothing and continued to sort out my errands... later I called my wife and explained I was at the mall on an errand perhaps we could meet up, she told me she was in the supermarket!!!. Later at home I asked her about her day, not a mention about meeting Kevin.. I asked about him and she said oh yes... I was upset because I keep feeling she is doing this behind my back rather than treating him as the family friend she maintains he is and include him in conversation about her day, 'Oh I saw Kevin today, we had a chat and coffee', rather than say nothing and make the whole situation seem what it is not...

Why didn't you go up to her and say hello? You had a perfect opportunity (and a legitimate one) to surprise her and possibly make her day brighter. Instead, you use it as a trap. When you called, were you still in the mall? Did you see her still in the mall WHEN you made the call? How do you know she was still in the mall when you chose to get in touch with her?

Hi Cat, yes I was waiting inline at the medical centre when I called her. I guessed she would be still in the mall. And yes you made a valid point although I didn't intentionally use it as a trap, I guessed she wouldn't tell me, and I was right... I just wanted her to not make it seem as if she is doing things behind my back but to be open about this so that it stops being a contentious issue

No you do not respect your wife. If you did you would have no problem with her learning that. Especially if it is something she wants to do.

You still have 0 trust for your wife which tells me your marriage is already over and you may as well end it because your not doing yourself or your wife any favors by acting the way you do.

Counseling I see has not worked or you just have not gone?

Jesushelper... my marriage is NOT over, what kind of advice is that? That is just plain rude, disrespectful and not very conducive to helping... this is coming from a 'Relationship Expert'!
I have no problem with my wife learning a new skill providing it is above board and morel.
Counseling is still ongoing. Like I said, things have been quite stable but sometimes something crops up that I don't know how to process..

Okay I will rephrase my wording.

In my own personal relationship advice to you it is time for a divorce and move on.

Jesushelper... my marriage is NOT over, what kind of advice is that?? That is just plain rude, disrespectful and not very conducive to helping... this is coming from a 'Relationship Expert'!
I have no problem with my wife learning a new skill providing it is above board and morel.
Counseling is still ongoing. Like I said, things have been quite stable but sometimes something crops up that I don't know how to process..

Yes it is over, it is not being rude but being truthful. It is over. It is done. Long time ago. Yes this is coming from a relationship expert.
Yes, you do have a problem with everything your wife does. That is a fact.
Glad your still doing the counseling. This is not cropping up this has been a big explosion right from the beginning.

Yes it is over, it is not being rude but being truthful. It is over. It is done. Long time ago. Yes this is coming from a relationship expert.
Yes, you do have a problem with everything your wife does. That is a fact.
Glad your still doing the counseling. This is not cropping up this has been a big explosion right from the beginning.

We have given advice until we're blue in the face and it all boils down to the jealousy you have for your wife. From what we have advised yo should be past that. You said you"agreed to let her check into massage therapy. You agreed to Let her. You are not her Dad nor her master.
Frankly I don't know how she's stood it this long. If you don't loosen up
Joe is right, divorce is where you're headed. I'm no expert I am a wife and if my husband treated me the way you have treaded your wife, Id be gone in a New York minute.

There are more kinds of abuse than physical , there is emotional abuse.

OK I am really trying not to be that person.

I didn't actually 'agree' to let her... she asked if I would be OK if she went to find out more and I said that she should go to evaluate for herself... kind of different

OK I am really trying not to be that person.

Clickus.. Let her do what makes her happy. If she s going to cheat there's no way you can stop it. I don't think she is thinking of that.
You will drive her away if you continue to dominate her. Kevin is her friend from China and maybe she gets homesick and likes to talk about home. Give her a break.

I didn't actually 'agree' to let her... she asked if I would be OK if she went to find out more and I said that she should go to evaluate for herself.... kinda different

You should not have to agree anyway. She should do whatever she wants. Separate from you.

You should not have to agree anyway. She should do whatever she wants. Separate from you.

You're right Joe.

No he is NOT right... when you are sharing a life together, you don't deliberately do something that is going cause any kind of discord between each other, it's a mutual respect for each other's feelings. Of course you should pursue the things you enjoy, but you don't do things that will cause a problem or put yourself in harms way.

If, for instance, the thing that made me happy was to frequent strip joints to watch naked woman, or drink myself stupid every night or visit ex-girlfriends. I am quite sure my wife wouldn't like that, so I wouldn't do it... simple

If, for instance, the thing that made me happy was to frequent strip joints to watch naked woman, or drink myself stupid every night or visit ex-girlfriends. I am quite sure my wife wouldn't like that, so I wouldn't do it... simple

Now your just being a complete ---- ---.

Clickaus those examples are completely different and your grasping at straws now just to justify your attitude towards your wife.

Now do us all a favor and get a divorce before she does actually leave you because of your Controlling ways.

EVERYTHING YOUR WIFE DOES CAUSES YOU PROBLEMS. And I mean EVERYTHING. You will never be happy and you will die a lonely man.

I feel sorry for you.

If, for instance, the thing that made me happy was to frequent strip joints to watch naked woman, or drink myself stupid every night or visit ex-girlfriends. I am quite sure my wife wouldn't like that, so I wouldn't do it... simple

Do you still have the gps on her phone? I don't believe for one moment
You just stumbled upon her and Kevin at the mall by accident. I think you are still spying and watching every move she makes. You grill her like she's on the witness stand. That's why she doesn't tell you everything. I don't know why you married her if you were going to make her an object instead of a wife.

Counseling is still ongoing. Like I said, things have been quite stable but sometimes something crops up that I don't know how to process..

Clickaus, this is what bothers me. You don't know how to process seeing your wife in the mall. It doesn't matter who she is with or if she is alone. Your first thought should be happiness at seeing seeing her and wanting to go up to her or if you can't at that moment calling her. Letting her know you saw her and you wish you could have stopped long enough to give her a hug and could you met up in a little bit when your errand is over. Perhaps even asking if she wanted to join you in line to share a few minutes.

Where did your mind go? The outcome was you setting her up. You want her to be honest, but you aren't.

You seem to have problems if she talks to any male other than you. I honestly don't think you could handle her working in a flower shop and advising men on what flowers to get.

Yes, she was a medical practitioner in China. It means that she has a deep-seated need to help people. She can't do what she is trained to do at this moment. Learning Massage and Acupressure are about as close as she can get without practicing any type of medicine without a license. You see it as a sex industry. She doesn't.

Hi Cat. You seem to have a more of an insight whereas Kat and Jesushelper appear to be on the attack.
I wanted to join her at the Mall but I hesitated as, believe it or not, I actually considered her feelings. Because I know she knows me I didn't go up to them as I thought her instance thought would be 'Oh I didn't tell him I would be here meeting Kevin, how will he react', so I wanted to avoid the awkwardness, instead I had hoped she would just let me know in conversation about her day, just as if I get a message from my friend during the day I would tell my wife during dinner conversation, no secret no hiding the fact. As is happened when I called her to explain I was on an errand in the mall I told her I was inline and that if she was around could join me... she called later to say she was on her way after the supermarket... I gave her a hug on meeting. I would be more comfortable with her in a flower shop.. no customers there will be stripping down to their underwear expecting body contact with oils... She spent the day at the Massage shop in the shopping mall and she told me about her day.. I was OK. We discussed the fact that there is a service for full body but she explained that the other staff take care of that. She just wants to learn Trad Chinese which is head, neck and shoulders.. I was surprising OK after the chat.. I just want her to be careful in not putting herself into dangerous situations... Just a month ago a guy in the city was charged with 8 counts of rape.. he had a massage shop where women would go just for a simple massage or acupuncture.. scary.


Thanks Cat

Clickus.. I can't help you anymore... Good luck

It is NOT AN ATTACK. It is called facing reality which your not willing to do. Being TRUTHFUL about your situation. Telling you what your going to do in your marriage and what is going to happen and what is happening. You can not really handle the reality of the situation and you can not see the truth. Kind of tough but you lashing out on people who are not coddling you and telling you that the things your doing to your wife is okay. It is really tough noodles if you like what I say or not.

Clickus... Listen to the experts. I'm not an expert but I gave you an opinion I thought would help you.

I am unsubscribing from this thread. Listen to the experts, they know what they're talking about.

Clickus I have to say this because I've been following the thread and it might help to hear this. (long but bear with me). It sounds like you are justifying the length to which you go to tract your wife by saying you are concerned for her safety. I think you know intuitively that what you are doing is wrong so you find reason that sound ligit to justify your actions. What you are doing to her is wrong. No free person should be staked, it is against basic human rights and, I think it is in a sense as abusive as locking her in the house. You have no right to do it.

Love is ideally an emotion that is freely offered and gratefully received and freely returned. It is true that people in love should accommodate their partners reasonable request to avoid activities that bring discomfort; the operative word is reasonable.

We would all like to control the person we feel romantic love for but since each individual is free, a mature lover is aware that trust makes love grow not bondage and violation of personal liberty. By respecting the autonomy of the person you love you avoid the relationship becoming one of control which kills love and emotional connection. Your actions are those of a person who seems to have a distorted view of the limitations and boundaries in a relationship.

It may be difficult to hear that the relationship is not destined to survive from experts and to be told so emphatically. But hear it you must. It may sound harsh, but it is a determined and committed effort to help you since you are looking for help and make you stop and think of how you are destroying any chance of love and connection with your wife.

People who are relationship experts can predict the future of relationships believe it or not. They know through experience, study and observations what works over the long run and what fails. I am not an expert but even I can see that they are right.

I know this though - Human nature being what it is, we all have core needs in a love relationship, in part those are trust, respect, communication, transparency, honesty and openness to be known and accepted. An emotional bond forms only with a person who can accept who you are and be honest and forthright.

You relationship with your wife seems to have none of these qualities. She does not appear to be emotionally bonded to you because you censure her and watch her, doubt her and play games, are are dishonest with her. She has been fortunate in finding solace and friendship with Kevin.

Relationship experts know what makes people stay together out of love and they are trying to tell you that all the signs point to no possibility of love and emotional bonding with your wife if you insist that you are justified in you surveillance of her.

You have ignored every excellent suggestion that the people posting have given you out of a sincere effort to help you. There is some exasperation expressed because you are so adamant in going about solutions the wrong way.

It is like watching a person going in front of a train insisting that it will not injure them. People are shouting at you to get you to stop. Please don't take it the wrong way, none has been unkind to you. You want to hear that everything will be all right but it will not and for someone to see you going wrong and takes the time and effort to tell you what you don't want to hear is the best kind of help you can get.

Open your eyes and see that the advice you are being given in its true light. Have faith that you have been granted the help you requested. In a way it is a gift, don't turn it away.

You need to buck up and get some confidence. Is this marriage based on love, or is this a situation where she saw you coming and needed someone to "take care of her" and her daughter. If you don't feel physically attractive to her, then do something about it. Believe me most of us have experienced something in our lives that make us feel like we don't measure up, but you can either sh** or get off the pot and start walking.
Oh, I also wouldn't put anything into her name, until you work out how this new marriage is really based on!! ---good luck

Thanks Allie, apologies to everyone.
I am just afraid, so afraid. I hate the thought of her turning to someone else rather than me, that's is why I am so guarded but I can see that may push her away... I have a question that I don't know the answer to... What is trust? How do you give it and show it without jeopardising one's own feelings and security


I do love my wife and yes I find her attractive in every aspect. I cannot imagine my life without her now.

What is trust? How do you give it and show it without jeopardising one's own feelings and security

You can't.

Trusting someone is taking a risk. It is allowing them past your defenses and into your heart (in the case of loving someone). Yeah, you can end up hurt. You can also end up experiencing one of the most special things on Earth-Love.

Trust is giving your love with the expectation that the person you love has your best interest at heart and returns your love. You have to get to know the person to be able to tell if they will return your love and avoid people who you predict will not. The onus in on the person who is has made themselves vulnerable by giving their love to have picked the receiver carefuly or they get hurt since you can't make someone trustworthy you have to chose a trustworthy person.

You're insecure, suspicious and desperate because you don't know her and you have no way of knowing if she is trustworthy or not. In a nutshell, you're suffering the consequences of not doing your homework in choosing a woman to marry. It too late now to evaluate her trustworthiness and stalking her will not insure that she is. She either is or isn't, it's your mistake not hers.

Think about it are you really in love with her or the her that you dreamed and hoped she would be? In my opinion you cannot love someone you don't know. Don't spiral down any further and loose your self-respect. Leave this relationship and find someone who you have gotten to know and trust that they return your love. Before giving your love this next time, get to know the person and make sure they are trustworthy.

Only you know if you have made this mistake in past failed relationships. It's not that you are not lovable, your are just making mistakes that are fixable, so take some comfort in that. It's in your control to fix then you will find someone who returns your love. Isn't that good to know, so have faith.

I have said this before but I'm going to repeat it. You two have got locked into an unhealthy cycle. You are trying to control your wife due to your own insecurities. Your wife is lying to you to avoid the constant hassle. I know you are going to counselling to work on your issues. I do believe strongly that you need to continue this. However, I think your wife needs to stop her behaviour of keeping secrets. I think she does this to avoid triggering your issues, but it isn't actually working anyway, and may well be contributing in holding back your ability to learn to trust. The fact that she feels unable to be honest with you is itself testament to how effective your control of her has become, not a good thing. She herself would benefit from being able to free herself from this pattern.

Get some counselling together to break this cycle.

This whole thread has been about your insecurity, jealous fantasies & dread of losing her.

Serious trust issues.

In 34 pages, have you not learned anything. Maybe professional help is the ticket.

If she's in fact devoted & honest, then you will only push her away if you keep it up.

It's a cycle you got to stop now. Whether is with her or anyone else.

I agree... the two of you should seek professional help together. This has gone on long enough and your marriage will not survive nor thrive until you both work together to make some changes.

It is obvious you are not able to work passed your feelings on your own. I know it is hard when you have been cheated on before... any new thing causes anxiety because you don't want to go through that pain again, it is understandable, but you have to see what a vicious cycle you are in.

She needs to be able to see how her actions and words actually fuel the situation and you need to see how your past experiences poison your current relationship.

Get into couples therapy NOW and learn some tools to get it sorted out once and for all. It will take time, you will fall back into old ways of thinking once in awhile, but if you want this marriage to thrive, and be the kind of relationship you desire, you have to put in the work to foster change.

Otherwise, separate and end the drama... unless of course you find a comfort in it. I know too that some people will continue being on the look out for any possible sign of indiscretion from their partner so that they can be right.

On one hand you don't want anything to be going on, and would feel horrified it there were, but on the other hand you have a need to feel justified in your suspicions, sort of an "Aha!, I knew it all along".

Sadly, that way of thinking, however, will keep you from the very thing you are wanting... a loving, trusting, and fulfilling marriage.

Take the first step... decide to make a change.

Excellent point - his communicating honestly with his wife so she knows how her actions effect him.

If she doesn't feel that you trust her and you constantly react suspicious or badly to things then she will continue to hide everything from you, innocent or not, to save the drama. She is a also grown woman, your wife and doesn't want to feel she is answering to a parent all the time. This is a big turn off. Take it from a woman who's been there.

Nice post. It sounds like he already knew he was going to be jealous with her.