Hello out there,
I have seen a lot of comments on problematic daughters in law but none on sons in law.
The problems I have with my son in law are almost the same as many mothers in law
Have with their daughers in law. Before my daughter became a mother to a lovely three year old boy I did not notice much apart from that he was a bit special and very close to his family. What disturbs me about him is that he is rude and gets annoyed on the phone when I (or my husband) phone and want to speak with my daughter which I do as little as possible. When we are there which is not very often either he does not show off the first 15 minutes (to show us he does not give a sh... about us). I think it is rude and disrespectful. I do not expect him to like us but I would like some respect which we do not get. Lately he has been like that to our other daughter and she is fed up with him. I think he lacks social intelligence. This of course makes everything more difficult us being grand parents now and having family relations. It seems that his parents come whenever they please and as my daughter and husband have very little time as they both work, the time they have is occupied by his mother and father and other family members. She sees my grandson very often. I feel ignored by them as if we don't exist. I worry a lot and it puts a lot of strain on my nerves. Sometimes I think maybe my daughter prefers her in-laws to us. That is hard to bear because then I have to ask myself where did I go wrong. I thought we had a good relationship with our daughter. Now it is as if this woman tries to pull my daughter over to their family. I know it looks as if I am jealous but I am just very hurt and angry at this woman for her inconsideration. Sometimes I just want to give up the battle (a terrible word - I don't want it to be a battle). My daughter is expecting another baby and I am not even looking forward to it as I expect the whole thing will even get worse. To his advantage I must say that he seems to get on well with my daughter (or she is not telling me everything) and seems to be a good father. I dread for the future. Can somebody give me som good advice? Should I just give up? I mean I cannot change him. I don't know what to do.

A difficult situation for you.

For the most part,try and keep an open communication with your daughter,whatever influence he has over her as her husband.. well.it is as it is.

As much as it urks you,try not to be argue with him or bad mouth him to your daughter.

Offer to babysit your grandchild,maybe they woulod like to go out.
If they decline the offer,leave it on the table,maybe they will take up the offer when the baby comes.

Don't interfer with them,keep your opinions to yourself,I know how that sounds,but I mean it in a nice way.

Unless you are asked directly for advice or an opinion,don't offer it.

Arrange a time during the week when to phone your daughter,she will be expecting it and so will he,he sounds a little controlling from your post so let him think he has a little control.

Hej Redhed35
Thanks for your comment. Well I knew all along that the bedst thing to do is "nothing".
Also the most difficult. I supposte for our duaghters sake we have to put up with everything.

You should not put up with being disrespected... choose your battles carefully and try not to alienate your daughter.

Don't give him any ammunition against you,or reason to question your motives.

Should I say something to my daughter why we keep such a distance (because he
Talks to us the way he does and seems so displeased when we show up). I think she knows but does not know what to do about it. Also she hates conflicts. Well the alternative for us if we do not want to be treated disrespectful is to keep away and that is difficult. It would suit his mother very well if we just disappeared then she can have the grand children all to herself.

For me,I would see it as your daughter would defend her husband,proper order really,could you arrange a shopping visit or maybe she could visit you,make a fuss over your grandson.

Don't put pressure on your daughter,really no one knows what goes on behind closed doors,if your son in law does not like you,most likely she knows this,its up to her to say she wants you in her life.

Keep things on an even keel,be open and nice,but do not let him disrespect you,would he do the same thing to a stranger?

If he does,do stand up for yourself,but you don't have to argue with him.

It is not that easy not to let him disrespect me. If we visit and he keeps busy somewhere
In the house without coming to greet us we get very annoyed but do not say anything because of our daughter and what an afternoon that would be if we said anything to him.
I feel we have to watch our steps all the time. It is so exhausting and it is as if we cannot be ourselves. I know next time he says something to me without my daughter being present he will get a piece of my mind.
On the other hand, as I wrote he lacks social intelligence and never does anything wrong.
After the things he said to my other daughter he wrote her a mail. Not apologizing no,
Just something about misunderstanding bla bla and only because his wife, our daughter
Was distressed about the whole thing. You can see what we are dealing with here.
I am going on a long holiday on Saturday and I really need to get away because this thing keeps going round in my head and I can see no light in the tunnel.

I look at this situation a bit differently. In particular, because you and your son in law, have a relationship, and as bad as it is, your daughter is unwilling to expect him to change, so he's comfortable in the relationship he has with you.

I also wonder why you don't speak with him directly. That example you sited, of him going elsewhere when you are around. I would have followed him, and just asked him point blank, "What is it that I'm doing to cause this rift between us."

For you to be in the middle of the two of them, puts pressure on them, and their marriage. And that is where you are when you deal only with your daughter, and not him directly.

You are also expecting that talking to your daughter, and she will talk to him, will only continue to put her on the spot.

At best you are getting third had information.

He may not be telling your daughter the truth as he sees it, because he knows it would upset her. He could be keeping his distance because of a misunderstanding; it's possible.

Failing to address the person directly who controls access to grandchildren, is the one you need to talk to.

If you can clear the air with him, all the better. But, be prepared for what he has to say, because you may not like it or agree with it. Whatever his reasons are, you will have to find a way to accept them, so that you can be active in their lives again.

Even if he forever keeps you at arm's length, your daughter will be happier, and you will be too. You don't have to like her choice in men even, just respect him as the decision maker, and how you handle him, will determine how big a role you will play.

Hi, I just posted a message about this similar situation. We are totally being left out of our daughters life because he husband wants her to be only a part of "his" family. My feelings are so hurt that she chooses her MIL over her own mother, that I feel like depression is setting in and I am not going to be able to cope with any of this. She has chosen to be with them and not any of us and we have approached her with that, but her husband is not willing to talk to us or try to work anything out. So, where do we go from here? We all live in the same town and I'm pretty sure this year even the holidays will be just my daughter and grandkids for an hour or so, which is so painful because they are in such a hurry to get to his parents house and spend the whole 2 days with them when they see them every day of their life. The thought of giving up completely has certainly crossed my mind many times, but just seeing the grandkids for 3 hrs one night a week is probably better than never! The MIL sees them every day, babysits when they go out on weekends, sees them during the weekend, holidays, etc. We feel very sad over this, but it just seems like there is no answer. My husband says that all the couselling in the world won't change someone else and that I need to figure out that they don't want us in their lives and that until I accept that, I will be hurt over and over. I know this is true, but if I totally give up, I feel that is will be so hard to fix then someday when they are both so stubborn that I'm sure that's the way "he" wants it. I share your pain, and if you have found a way to deal with all this, please let me know. I am looking for any kind of help I can get.

Are you my mother? Sounds an awefull lot like you are speaking about my soon to be ex husband.


Its been my experience, that I'm sorry to say, there isn't much you can do :( you can't make your daughter leave him. You can't make him give you the respect you deserve. Its all on him and your daughter. They either work it out and grow together, or they don't and get a divorce...

I would suggest you talk to your daughter about talking to her husband about marriage counseling.

Good luck hon. I'm sorry your in the position.

Thank you jake2008 for your reply. I guess you have a point there. Speaking to him directly would be the best but I don't know if I have the courage. On the other hand keeping your mouth shut all the time also makes me so frustrated.
However I have been so frustrated that I wrote a letter to my daughter how I felt about the whole situation. I did not say too much about the in laws and son in law but wrote that we felt that we were not allowed to be part of their family because the other family were always there. It seems that we have misread the whole situation a little bit. His family is just so keen to always help and be part of their family that if we want the same we have to contact them more, offering our help and so on. Our daughter does not think we invite them often enough which is true because I just take it for granted that if she wants to come she will come but what she wants is an invitation. I also told her how upset we get when our son in law disappears as soon as we arrive. Apparently my daughter has talked to him about it (it does not seem he takes it seriously).
Anyway it has been good to bring it out in the open and I realise that my daughter accepts him as he is and they are happy together. What I can do is accept him and his strange ways (unless he gets too rude) and not take it too seriously. Just not expect too much of our relationship. According to our daughter he likes us (that is what he says) but maybe a strange way of showing it.

Hello madhatter 22
Yes it is very hurtful when your own daughter seems to prefer her in laws.

The only thing to to is to write or talk to your daughter how it makes you feel. She must understand that you are a grandmother who wants to see her grand children as often as possible. Maybe there are some problems which you did not know about. Anyway it is best to bring it out in the open. Also invite them over and arrange for things you can do with your grandkids (without parents). I am sure they love you and it would be stupid of your daughter not to let them see you.
It would be nice if our daughters could put their foot down sometimes if the visit once more goes to the in laws but I do not know if they don't consider it as a problem, if it is easier not to upset the husband or if they even prefer to be with the inlaws (that really hurts).
I really feel for you for I know exactly how it feels. Just do your best. Maybe it will work out. First of all tell your daughter how you feel.

I don't think this explains his behavior.

There are excuses, and him denying being rude, but he is rude, and he knows it. I doubt that if his family were treated the way he treats you, that they'd be visiting too often either.

I wonder if your daughter will get to the point where there is too much involvement in her life with his family.

I agree, invite them over, and even extend an invitaition for Thanksgiving, so he knows it won't be six months before he has to go over again. If you have family nearby, invite them over too, and have a houseful.

See how he behaves then.

Instinct tells me he's a bit of a mama's boy, and your daughter knows that his family comes with the package. I would imagine it is easier to make excuses for him rather than face the consequences of saying 'no' to them.

But I agree, see if your increased effort to spend more time with them might not thaw him out a bit.

It would be great if an invitation to our house was an option. We have already talked to our daughter and she has indicated that she cannot do anything with him, so it is really just easier to just not fight with him. His mom babysits the two grandkids everyday, sometimes all day, every weekend when they go somewhere or out, so she is very involved in their lives and welcomed to be there. She goes right to their house and almost lives with them just to help take care of the kids everyday. How easy does it get for my daughter. Whereas that is not the case with us. We are never invited and he makes us feel very uncomfortable when we are there for a birthday party for the kids. She did put her foot down a bit and we do get to see the kids one evening during the week. We do enjoy that, but sometimes I feel too like they will never know us like they do the other side of the family, so what is really the use of trying so hard to be close. Our son in law dislikes my husband and as we all know, that didn't just happen. Because of events in the past before they got married, he feels like we don't like him which is somewhat true, but we are willing to try to make amends and have tried, with no luck. So, I am just looking for some kind of advice on how to stay sane in this situation since we all live in the same town, and I have to see things everyday that hurt me. One comment I got was that I cannot make her leave him and I cannot make him give us the respect we deserve, but my way of dealing with all this is, is just to try to pretend that my daughter doesn't exist, never ask any questions, never pry into her life and just pick up the kids when I am allowed to and have no connection with her whatsoever. That seems to be working for her and I am just making myself hard toward her. May sound cruel, but there is really no other way to "get over it" as I am told to do by her because "it is what it is." I haven't cried for a week since I have gotten comments on this site about other people that are hurting like I am, so this seems to be helping me some. There are many books out there, they are hard to find on "son in law problems" but one good one is "don't blame your mother" which I just finished. It still hurts every day, but all I can hope is that some day she realizes what she has done by leaving our whole side of the family out and just concentrating on his side. Not sure she cares because her life seems simple this way-only having to please certain people. But, it certainly is a painful situation that the other people in her life feel. It sounds also like I am jealous and maybe to some extent I am, but to see her and her MIL together raising the kids, doing things together for years and her choosing it makes me feel like she has stolen my daughter and I feel empty without her. Probably this is just an instinct and hopefully norma. I have talked to her about that, but it really didn't matter. So, life needs to go on. I am trying to fill my days with other things, but it is on my mind constantly. How much does a parent have to endure? Maybe someday she will know if her children every treat her like that. And yes, if our SIL treated his parents like he treats us, they for sure wouldn't be visiting very often either. Thank you for your comments everyone and I still welcome any "word of wisdom or advice."

To madhatter22
There is not much you can do about how your kids feel about you but no matter what has happened in the past for the grand children's sake it should be possible for adults to behave in an adult way. Maybe one way to go is to talk to your son in law. If he feels you do not like him he is probably taking it out on you now by not wanting to have contact with you. You cannot change him but maybe you can come to an agreement with him that you do not have to like each other but for the grand children's sake behave in a civil way when you are together and let them see their grand parents from their mothers side. I do try
To see the good sides my son in law he also has. There must be a reason why my daughter loves him and she has to live with him every day. One thing is for sure you cannot expect your daughter to be loyal to you instead of her husband.
I would give it a last try by talking openly with your son in law. Maybe he has to say a few things. That might clear the air. Also invite your grand kids over as much as possible even though there is not much chance you actually come to see them. Be friendly to your
Son in law and accept that you also might have made a few mistakes. Do everything you possible can to have a good relation. If nothing helps then I agree it might be for the best to let it go even if it causes much grief. Maybe your daughter comes to her senses when she realises that you accept the loss. All the best

To madhatter22
There is not much you can do about how your kids feel about you but no matter what has happened in the past for the grand childrens sake it should be possible for adults to behave in an adult way. Maybe one way to go is to talk to your son in law. If he feels you do not like him he is probably taking it out on you now by not wanting to have contact with you. You cannot change him but maybe you can come to an agreement with him that you do not have to like each other but for the grand childrens sake behave in a civil way when you are together and let them see their grand parents from their mothers side. I do try
to see the good sides my son in law he also has. There must be a reason why my daughter loves him and she has to live with him every day. One thing is for sure you cannot expect your daughter to be loyal to you instead of her husband.
I would give it a last try by talking openly with your son in law. Maybe he has to say a few things. That might clear the air. Also invite your grand kids over as much as possible even though there is not much chance you actually come to see them. Be friendly to your
son in law and accept that you also might have made a few mistakes. Do everything you possible can to have a good relation. If nothing helps then I agree it might be for the best to let it go even if it causes much grief. Maybe your daughter comes to her senses when she realises that you accept the loss. All the best

That you for being sympathetic to my problem. It hurts so much and I think you know the pain also when your child chooses their inlaws. I am pretty much convinced that my daughter actually chooses her mother in law to be her mother figure. I raised her as a single parent until my second marriage and her stepfather treated her equal or better than his own kids, so she really doesn't have a reason to treat us like she does, but we can't seem to change anything. We do see the kids a little, and try to make the best of that, but of course seeing the kids because they are little, requires dealing with the parents to a degree. So many days I feel just like giving up on everything, but then I ask myself how hard it will be to "fix" things someday if we ever want to patch things up and have a relationship between us. This situation has caused some depression and no matter how hard you try to fill your time with other things, it seems impossible to clear your mind of what is going on day after day. My husband has no interest in trying to make things better between all of us and neither does our son in law, so we are fighting a losing battle most of the time. Most often the daughter goes with her side of the family and the son's parents feel left out. I just cannot believe my own daughter has done this to me. I try not to feel sorry for myself, but it just makes me feel like a horrible mother and no matter how much I try to be a part of her life, she is not willing to let that happen. My feeling is that her husband is just plain spoiled by his parents all his life and they still give him everything he wants and now her too, so they do not need anyone else for anything. The only consolation to all this, is that no one else likes him either other than his immediate family, so maybe we shouldn't feel so bad that he doesn't like us. My husband is very much respected where we live, so I know it isn't all him. I know there really isn't an answer to what can be done (pretty much nothing) but it helps just to be able to vent some of my frustration and know there are other people that have similar situations. I feel sometimes like I am the only one that their daughter chooses her mother in law over her own mother. Sad feeling.

To madhatter 22
I think it is not uncommon that daughters prefer their inlaws which of course makes
Any mother feel like a bit of a failure. If you had a good relationship so far it is difficult to understand why she does it unless it is a reaction towards you because you do not like her husband.
Our son in law is not our cup of tea and never will be but I have come to the conclusion that we do not have to like him and we cannot expect him to like us just because he is married to our daughter. That seems to make things easier. We once had a dream that our son in law would be like a son to us but dreams do not always come true and we have to take things as they are. I try to see his good qualities which of course he also has. We see them once a month and that is enough for us. Of course I would like to see our daughter and grandson more often.
Do not give up hope that things could turn around and instead of blaming them try to stay positive even though there is a lot of hurt. If praying means anything to you, it gives a lot of consolation in a hopeless situation.
All the best

For some reason today, I read your response again about "son in law." I agree with you that I had a dream that I could be close to my daughter and her husband, but it also didn't work out the way I had hoped. It is very sad that she has to be in the middle of things. Makes it very difficult for her and myself. I have taken the path to only contact her once a week when it is time to see the kids. So far we have been lucky and get to see the kids one night a week. The granddaughter loves us very much and we get the opportunity to have her stay overnight once in awhile. So I am grateful for that. It could be worse because he could say that we won't be able to see them at all, but at least my daughter stands up and makes that work for us. So, I cherish those times and it makes me sad how things are, and wish they could be better. But I too have learned to just take things as they are. It still hurts a lot that I have to be like an aqaintance to my daughter, but it works better not to ask any questions and just stay out of her life. I never thought it would be this way, but we were never all that close. I'm sure she thinks I was a bad mother because she compares me with her "perfect" mother in law that thinks of all things possible to do to make her happy. She doesn't work anymore, so her whole life is dedicated to taking care of the kids and her, even though she is a stay at home mom. I haven't given up yet, but some days it does seem like it would be much easier, but then again nothing worthwhile in life comes easy. I do pray everyday that things could or will turn around somehow. It does give me some consolation. I only wish they would have God in their lives. My feeling is that people that do, have a conscience and know that hurting people is not one of the requirements for a christian. But, I can only pray for them that some day they will know that and things will be better down the road. Thanks for your words of wisdom. They have helped me today.

Hi Berna 555 and Madhatter22,

I've suffered the same "outsider" treatment, since just after our daughter met her partner and his family (7 years ago) and like you, I've often wondered where I went wrong. However, discussions with friends and a counsellor helped me to understand and accept that I can only be held responsible for my part in any relationship and that my relationship with my daughter will not improve until she grows up enough to accept responsibility for her own actions. She has just cut contact with us, for the third time now, simply because she can't handle being challenged about allowing her partner to manipulate her into doing things that scream contempt for us or insensivity for our feelings. Challenging her partner had exactly the same effect because keeping us on "the outer" is the only way in which he and his mother can maintain their own supremacy.

Sadly, being shut out of our daughter's life means that we've also been shut out of our grandchildren's lives (giving the partner and his mother more control) but, we've decided to respond to that by being kind to ourselves, instead of beating ourselves up about it. After all, it is not our fault if our daughter doesn't value the contribution that we've made to her life, her husband's life and her children's lives. So, until she learns to do that, and accept responsibility for her own blindly selfish and insensitive behavior, we're going to concentrate more on ourselves and our other daughter, who does value us and our efforts to be there for her and her sister.

We're planning holidays and other fun things with our friends (who've been very supportive of us), instead of worrying about being there for our foolish daughter and her controlling partner. We'll continue to send our daughter and grandchildren birthday cards, to ensure that they know that we haven't forgotten them but, until our daughter wakes-up to herself and the situation that she's put herself in, there's nothing more that we can do. For years, I put-up with being treated as "an outsider" by some of the members of my foster family, before finding my voice. So I will not accept being treated as "an outsider" by my own flesh and blood, and neither should you. Life is too short to waste on selfish users when there so many others who would genuinely appreciate a helping hand from caring people like us (e.g. children's charities or child sponsorship).

Sometimes we have to be prepared to let go of people who we love until they learn to treat us in the same was as they'd like to be treated themselves.

I am in the exact situation. I was close to my daughter until this jerk came along. He wisked her away to live in another town 14 hours away. That was good and I thought maybe the ILs would stop telling her how to decorate her house, what to wear, paint for her, buy her clothes, go on holidays with them. My daughter has also started to lie just like her husband and ILs. I don't have anything to do with her ILs except be courteous and it has been working out extremely well. Many times when we visit my SIL wants us to leave as told by my daughter, so we do. Now a baby is expected in July and we were told we have to stay in a hotel and not to come to visit until they tell us. They want to be alone. I'm sure the ILs will be right in their face. Unfortunately, my daughter has a very low self-esteem because her husband consistently criticizes her. She constantly tells me how happy she is - Good. But, I think she leans on MIL to pick her up. Of course, she doesn't want me to know how critical he is. I believe she is being brainwashed by her ILs as well. I work and so it helps keep my mind away from all this. Also, I have taken what I call a "leave of absence" from my daughter for a couple of weeks. - no phone calls, no e-mails, not contact. Hopefully, that might make them realize that there are another set of parents in existence!!

I wrote my own letter to myself tonight, titled "my son-in-law is a putz." He's got a big "man-child" thing going on and it's heart-wrenching to watch our daughter be ground down, no spiritually pulverized, by his childishness. No, he doesn't give my husband or I the time of day - very disrespectful - but that's the least of it. He doesn't support my daughter or their two little boys and its very sad to watch our daughter be the chief cook, bottle-washer, and bread winner. We are Christian people and we're trying to see the good in all of this - honestly! Sometimes, it just gets so discouraging and heart-wrenching to watch our daughter be so manipulated! She's hauling around this 12-year-old, who, unfortunately, acts like the only one he truly loves is himself. Nothing we do pleases him; our daughter gets the same treatment also, in addition to the constant criticism he heaps on her - we know this because he does it openly in front of everyone!! <Big Sigh> Got any suggestions? It's like he's allergic to responsibility!

I feel your pain. It's a very difficult situation to be in. I am going through the same thing with my son-in-law and I'm just about to throw in the towel. My older grandson(3y/o) adores me but I know in time that this will change. My son-in-law with his malicious lies will poison his mind against me. It's very painful, but it is a no win situation that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
I am dreading the holidays this year. My husband and I will probably be alone. So sad we gave our daughter so much. Maybe that's the problem.

Languishing,

This is a very old thread that you have responded to.

Why not post your response, as a new question. You will get more answers and opinions that way.

I hope you do.

I feel your pain. It's a very difficult situation to be in. I am going through the same thing with my son-in-law and I'm just about to throw in the towel. My older grandson(3y/o) adores me but I know in time that this will change. My son-in-law with his malicious lies will poison his mind against me. It's very painful, but it is a no win situation that I wouldnt wish on anyone.
I am dreading the holidays this year. My husband and I will probably be alone. So sad we gave our daughter so much. Maybe that's the problem.

Hi Languishing

I understand completely how you feel, right now, because I've been there, myself.

Please don't ever give up hope on your precious grandson, or walk away from your relationship with him or your daughter because, if you do, your son in law wins... and if he does, he gets to deprive his own wife and son (your daughter and grandson) of their right to have a good relationship with you - something that he has no right to do.

Our relationship with our daughter and grandchildren is still not as close as we'd like it to be, but it has improved, as a result of our determination to prevent our daughter's weakness, where her husband is concerned, from destroying our relationship with her and our two precious grandchildren.

We're currently moving on from the hurt that comes from suffering the indignity of experiencing a daughter's lack of loyalty and respect... but maintaining our rage in relation to our son-in-law's selfish ways... and as a result, finding ways to get around them.

We initially backed-off for a while... to give our daughter a bit more space (and some time without us in her life)... but have continued to maintain regular contact with her and our grandchildren, by popping in to visit them from time to time (after phoning first), while our son-in-law is at work.

We've also arranged to get together with our daughter and grandchildren, at a neutral venue, when our son in law is able to be present too (only once, so far), primarily to ensure that our son-in-law can't accuse us of deliberately avoiding him, or disrespecting his place as head of his own household.

The simple truth of the matter - in our case - is that our son-in-law is a spoiled, selfish, "Mummy's Boy", who has been conditoned, by his narcissistic mother, to believe that he's "entitled" to treat his "in-laws" in ways that he wouldn't like to be treated himself. That narcissistic (self-absorbed) mother has also succeeded in manipulating our love-struck daughter, by stroking her ego, while working from behind the scenes, to control her life, through her devoted son.

I've reached this conclusion about the type of people that we're up against, after reading an article which described "Narcissists" as being the type of people who work through others, to destroy the lives of anyone who they perceive to be a threat to their own supermacy. I've also been reading a book entitled, "Disarming the Narcissist", which was written by Wendy T Behary, LCSW, in conjunction with Daniel J Siegel, MD and Jeffrey Young Ph.D. with a view towards getting a better understanding of the causes of and motivation behind narcissistic behavior, as well as the necessary skills to prevent it from doing any more harm to our relationship with our daughter and grandchildren.

As a result, I've realised that the best way for my husband and I to have the best possible relationship with our daughter and grandchildren is to ignore any preferential treatment that our daughter's in-laws might be receiving, and continue to concentrate on ensuring that the limited time that we have with our daughter and our precious grandchildren leaves them, as well as us, with the best possible memories.

And... last night, just after we arrived home from spending some time with our daughter and grand children, I received a text message from my daughter to say that our 2 1/2 yr old grand daughter had insisted upon wearing the new red shoes that she'd wanted... and I'd bought for her that day... to bed. That response from my grand daughter... and the joy that I experienced from having my 6 month old grandson grinning back at me, and blowing raspberries at me, while I was blowing kisses onto his cheeks, while cuddling him, are two very precious memories that nobody will ever be able to take away from me.

So, please don't give up on your grandson... because, even though he's not old enough to tell you himself - yet, he does appreciate having someone as special as you in his life, and that's why you have a good relationship with him right now. So, keep working on it.

These are awful situations, and approaching the man is not the solution. Men are going to do whatever they want, are you serious! My daughter lives out of state, and she never calls me. When I call they do not answer the phone, and if I leave a message they do not return my calls. I rushed myself to the emergency room because of am appendicitis attack, so I called my daughter to let her know that I was in the hospital. I left her three messages that I was in the hospital. After three days in the hospital she finally called me back! She has become a stranger to me, did I give birth to her? After she met her husband she has become the most selfish, self-centered person. And he treats me terribly, and she could care less about it. My last visit in April would be my last visit, although I didn't share that with her. I cried my entire visit, he yelled at me every day. His temper can go from 0-10 in a matter of minutes, for no reason. And he screams at my 2 year old grandson constantly, for no good reason. He is gone all of the time, he is so important! In his mind. He is so jealous of my daughter and I, that fact that we laugh together. He went to law school in San Diego so he believes that he is the smartest man on earth, and that no one is as smart as him. And he hates my daughter's family, all of us. My daughter's father died a year ago, and she has not spoken to any of her family since then. She is estranged from all of her father's family, and her husband loves this! Now my daughter doesn't answer her phone when I call, she doesn't return my phone calls. She doesn't call me. He has her all to himself in another state, and she only sees his family. They have one child 2 years 5 months old, and one that is due in March 2011. Sadly I will most likely never see the second one. I can't bear to be around this man, he is so abusive to me. How my daughter can stand to be around someone so awful I can not understand, but it is her husband. I am just her mother, and the end of her family. She doesn't really need me in her life, she is now 25. She is a grown woman, and now she has her family. She no longer needs her mother, she has his mother. She is making it crystal clear to me that I am no longer needed in her life, and so I am pulling away from her. And he is very happy about this, he couldn't care less about it. I guess that when you really love someone you just let them go.

You want to believe that you did a great job raising your child/children, the truth is that you did. I think that we just did too much for them, and they just didn't appreciate everything. Please, thank you, yes Mam. The simple polite things people say to each other, what happened to our children? Providing them with gifts for birthday's and holidays, and just because we love them. How many of you out there receive anything for your birthday, mother's Day, Christmas, or any other holiday from your children? I am just wondering, because I do not receive anything. Where is our reciprocity, it should be there as well. I am just saying.

These are awful situations, and approaching the man is not the solution. Men are going to do whatever they want, are you serious! My daughter lives out of state, and she never calls me. When I call they do not answer the phone, and if I leave a message they do not return my calls. I rushed myself to the emergency room because of am appendicitis attack, so I called my daughter to let her know that I was in the hospital. I left her three messages that I was in the hospital. After three days in the hospital she finally called me back! She has become a stranger to me, did I give birth to her? After she met her husband she has become the most selfish, self-centered person. And he treats me terribly, and she could care less about it. My last visit in April would be my last visit, although I didn't share that with her. I cried my entire visit, he yelled at me every day. His temper can go from 0-10 in a matter of minutes, for no reason. And he screams at my 2 year old grandson constantly, for no good reason. He is gone all of the time, he is so important! in his mind. He is so jealous of my daughter and I, that fact that we laugh together. He went to law school in San Diego so he believes that he is the smartest man on earth, and that no one is as smart as him. And he hates my daughter's family, all of us. My daughter's father died a year ago, and she has not spoken to any of her family since then. She is estranged from all of her father's family, and her husband loves this! Now my daughter doesn't answer her phone when I call, she doesn't return my phone calls. She doesn't call me. He has her all to himself in another state, and she only sees his family. They have one child 2 years 5 months old, and one that is due in March 2011. Sadly I will most likely never see the second one. I can't bear to be around this man, he is so abusive to me. How my daughter can stand to be around someone so awful I can not understand, but it is her husband. I am just her mother, and the end of her family. She doesn't really need me in her life, she is now 25. She is a grown woman, and now she has her family. She no longer needs her mother, she has his mother. She is making it crystal clear to me that I am no longer needed in her life, and so I am pulling away from her. And he is very happy about this, he couldn't care less about it. I guess that when you really love someone you just let them go.

Hi binks58

I empathize with you and totally understand the hurt, anger and frustration that you're feeling, right now, as a result of how you've been treated by your daughter and son-in-law. However, I also believe that the comments that you've made about your son-in-law's temper going "from 0-10 in a matter of minutes", and him screaming at your 2 year-old grandson constantly, for no apparent reason, provide evidence that he could be a controlling bully... and possibily even a narcissist... and if he's a narcissist, you're correct in believing that you'd be wasting your time by trying to talk to him about your feelings.

You've also mentioned that your daughter is currently pregnant, so I would ask you to consider the possibility that she might be suffering from pre natal depression - which wouldn't be surprising, given the added stress that she's put herself under, as a result of having alienated herself from all the members of her own family, in order to please her man.

I believe that you know, as well as I do, that such behavior on our daughter's part wouldn't be considered necessary, or appropriate, under normal circumstances, and it was that disturbing fact in itself, which helped me to push aside the hurt and anger that I felt, and start looking for a way to get around our selfish and controlling son-in-law.

My husband and I sought the help of a trained professional, who advised us to stop beating ourselfes up (i.e. blaming ourselves) for the situation that was not of our creation... and reminded us that we can only be held responsible for the way in which we handle our side of any relationship.

I also tried to focus my thoughts less upon myself and more on what my daughter might be going through, by trying to imagine what it must be like for her to be married to, and expecting a second baby to such a selfish and controlling mummy's boy... and that's when the mother in me took over, again... and I started doing some research, with a view towards finding a way past the horrid situation that he and his mother had played a significant part in bringing about.

You are absolutely right about our daughters being grown women, who are quite capable of living their own lives, without the constant involvement of us in their lives. However, even though our daughters might believe that they know it all, the fact that they've become estranged from us, and other significant members of their own family, as a result of their desperation to please some self-absorbed man, proves that they don't know as much as they think they do - doesn't it?

So, I honestly believe that our blindly foolish (and currently selfish) daughters, and our precious grandchildren do need us, older and wiser "grand" mothers, to continue to be there for them throughout the good times and the bad. After all, who else is going to teach them the meaning of unconditional love, by setting the perfect example of it, if we don't?

I also still remember my own experience of being pregnant with our problem daughter, when our first was only 2 years old, and how anxious I was, at that time, about being a good wife and mother. Fortunately, I didn't have have the added burden of a selfish and controlling husband and mother-in-law to contend with, or a mother who was trying to cling on to me when I didn't feel as if I really needed her.

So, you're absolutely right when you say that sometimes, loving someone means that you have to let them go. However, I believe that there's a significant difference between letting our children go, so that they can live their own lives, in their own way, and walking away from them, and our grandchildren completely.

I do understand how you feel about your daughter living so far away from you, too, because our daughter might as well live in a different state from us, because she lives 3 hours away from us (by car). So, in order to give her and her husband a bit more of their own space, we've found a reasonably-priced (and comfortable) motel (with kitchen facilities) to stay in when we visit their part of our state. We've also made the most of the extra space that has given us, by doing some of the touristy things, while in town... and phoning our daughter (while her husband is at work), to let her know that we're in town, doing our own thing, for a couple of days, and that we'd like to catch-up with her and our grandchildren, for a couple of hours, while we're in the area, if possible.

On two occasions, recently, taking that course of action has resulted in us being able to catch-up with our daughter and grandchildren, while our son-in-law was at work... but we've been very careful not to make it too obvious that we've been deliberately avoiding him.

So, although I can't guarantee that the strategies that my husband and I have used will work in your particular case, I've communicated them to you in the hope that doing so will help you to realize that you are far from being alone in having such problems with your daughter, and that you do have what it takes to get around those problems, while being kind to yourself, and your daughter, at the same time.

I am so glad that this discussion has been brought up again. We have been dealing with the same problem for about 5 years now and it has only gotten worse for us. We have decided that living in the same town is so painful for me because our time with the grandkids is being controlled to a few hours a week, that we are going to try to do something for ourselves. We are buying a house in AZ for the winter months and have a house at a lake about 100 miles away for the summers. That will make my daughters life much easier if she doesn't have to deal with us anymore than maybe once a year. I realize you cannot run away from your problems, but you can certainly displace yourself from them if possible. Maybe she will be happier if we just leave her and her little cult like life alone. She seems to be happy having her mother in law and husband taking care of her every whim, so two's company and three's a crowd I guess. It's such a sad time for us when it should be a happy time. Please keep your thoughts coming. I always appreciate some helpful advice. Glad to know it isn't just us. Sometimes it appears we are the only ones having this problems. Thanks again.

I am so glad that this discussion has been brought up again. We have been dealing with the same exact problem for about 5 years now and it has only gotten worse for us. We have decided that living in the same town is so painful for me because our time with the grandkids is being controlled to a few hours a week, that we are going to try to do something for ourselves. We are buying a house in AZ for the winter months and have a house at a lake about 100 miles away for the summers. That will make my daughters life much easier if she doesn't have to deal with us anymore than maybe once a year. I realize you cannot run away from your problems, but you can certainly displace yourself from them if possible. Maybe she will be happier if we just leave her and her little cult like life alone. She seems to be happy having her mother in law and husband taking care of her every whim, so two's company and three's a crowd I guess. It's such a sad time for us when it should be a happy time. Please keep your thoughts coming. I always appreciate some helpful advice. Glad to know it isn't just us. Sometimes it appears we are the only ones having this problems. Thanks again.

Hello again, Madhatter

I'm sorry to hear that the situation between you and your daughter hasn't improved, but pleased to hear that you've found the strength and courage to move on with your own life, in other areas.

I seriously doubt that our relationship with our daughter is ever going to be the same as it was, either, but at least we will both be maintaining some contact with our precious grandchildren... and hopefully, seeing us on a less frequent basis than their other grandparents, will help to make their experience and memories of spending time with us, far more exciting and special.

As for our daughters... well, I guess they're going to have to lose something (or someone) that they've become so used to taking for granted, before they'll wake up to their own blind selfishness.

Keep believing in yourself.

I want to thank you for your empathy and wonderful advice. I felt so much better after reading your posts.I feel as though you really have an understanding of this. This is a very difficult problem for me to discuss with any of my friends. Thanks.

Hello again, Languishing

I'm genuinely pleased to hear that my response has helped you to feel better and I sincerely hope that you'll keep believing in yourself, and your ability as a mother. After all, we mothers can only do what we believe is best for our children, and grandchildren... and if that isn't good enough for them, then that's their problem - not ours. I sincerely believe that in your case, as in mine, your daughter's love for her man has blinded her to his selfish and manipulative tactics... and/or that she's putting so much effort into making him happy, and her own family unit in tact, that she doesn't have much time, or effort left to put into her relationship with you. So, even though you have not yet been able to talk about having a less than ideal family situation with your friends, at least talking about it here has helped you to realize that you are far from being alone with such a problem. So please keep hanging in there... and believing in yourself... and in your own ability to get around your problematic son in law.

Thank you so much for your very kind words. I had to stop calling because she doesn't answer my calls, and she doesn't return my calls. I cry most days, it is very painful. Just one day at a time they say.

My second grandchild is due March 2011, and I am not sure when or if I will even be asked to see it. I can't get excited when I am alienated from her life. It is so strange, sad, and it makes me so angry at times. But it is her life, not mine.

Hi Binks58

I'm happy to help you in whatever way that I can because I understand that the anxiety and devastation that you're feeling right now, and the tears that you're shedding as a result, are a natural consequence of the helplessness that you feel over the perceived loss of your daughter and grandchildren. I know that, because during the first three months of this year, I was going through the same experience (grief)... and it got worse, before it got better. So, hang in there... and keep believing in yourself and remembering that you're far from being the only mother in the world that this has happened to... and that nobody can take away your belief in yourself unless you let them.

I'd also suggest that you draw strength from Jake 2008's earlier comments on page 2 this site, about some young wives being prepared to accept "his family as coming as part of the package"... and going along with what he and 'his' parents dictate "out of fear of facing the consequences of saying No to them" because, although Jake 2008 wasn't responding to our specific situations, I believe that he's hit the nail on the heat when it comes to the situation that our daughters have put themselves in, as a result of being a bit too eager to please their men.

Our second grandchild (boy) was born on 11 March, and we found out about his premature birth, about 3 weeks later, when one of our closest friends made contact to congratulate us on being grandparents for the second time. That friend had heard about our grandson's birth from another friend, who'd heard about it from her son, who'd received a text message, announcing it, from our daughter. That friend, who is my husband's closest friend, and one of our daughter's Godparents, shared our outrage... and became immediately supportive of us because, like us, he knew that we hadn't done anything to our son in law, or our daughter, to deserve to be shut out like that. However, at our request, he didn't make contact with our daughter to let her know how he felt about the way in which she was shutting us out.

I'd already started to talking to some of my more trusted friends... and even some of my daughter's friends, about being cut-off by her... in response to being asked questions about how her second pregnancy was going. However, as a result of reading some very good articles about how to deal with narcissistic behavior, I knew better than to complain about my daughter, or son-in-law, to any of their friends. So, I simply told their friends how concerned my husband and I were about our daughter, and how much at a loss we were to understand why she'd have found it necessary, or appropriate, to cut herself off from most of the members of her own family... and, in response, a couple of her friends suggested that her husband could be the main cause of our problems because they'd noticed a rift developing in their own relationship with our daughter since she became involved with him, too.

One of my daughter's friends, and a work colleague of mine, also suggested that the latest about of our daughter's hostility towards us might have come about as a result of pre-natal depression, which can sometimes be an added consequence of being in a controlling relationship. So, not wanting to add to our daughter's problems or stress levels, my husband and I decided to back-off until she'd had time to get the new baby home and settled into his routine, before having another go at rekindling the relationship. In the meantime, we occupied ourselves with activities with friends who helped us to maintain our self esteem, and relied upon the reliable support and persistence of our elder daughter, who'd been kept just as much in the dark as us in relation to the birth of her nephew, but eventually had more luck than we did in making contact with her sister. We also discussed our situation with a couple of the younger members of our extended family, who lived closer to our daughter and son in law, and asked them to help by keepng a watchful eye on our daughter, and let us know if they thought our help might be needed.

It was actually fate... and the attendance at the death of an elderly relative that eventually brought us into contact with our daughter and son in law, again, in May... and gave us the opportunity to see and hold our new grandson for the first time - something that our son in law could do nothing to prevent, in room full of witnesses. However, that occasion didn't provide us with the opportunity to see our precious grand daughter... and as her birthday had passed without us having the opportunity to see her, we decided to make a surprise personal visit, to her home, to deliver her birthday present, and our gift for our new grandson, in person, while their father was at work. That's when I found the lovely little motel that we've stayed in on our two subsequent visits to our daughter's home town.

So, as you've said, it is pretty much a case of taking it one day (and one step) at a time... and maintaining your belief in yourself, while enlisting the help and support of trusted friends and/or any relatives that you might have living closer to hand. It might also help you to do some reading about how to deal with control freaks and/or narcissists, or to talk to a cousellor, who might be able to help you to come up with some strategies for dealing with your specific situation. And don't forget that while your daughter has her life to live... you have your life to live, too.

And I'll be here, on-line too, just in case you need to draw strengh from talking to someone who's in much the same situation as you.

Hi OwnBestFriend,
Thanks for your good advice and letting us know how you deal with your difficult situation. You are so right. The best thing (very difficult) is to let go.
I have done that too and the reason I know I feel better is that I could not care less now how much my daughters inlaws are visiting and are having the grand children.
I have decided that my husband and me are OK people, very good grand parents (our older grand child is very fond of us) and are and always have done our best. I am not working but we live about 2 hours drive from her. If my daughter wanted to she could ask me for help in her daily life but she does not. I suppose her husband does not want it. According to my daughter many of her friends are not blessed with parents who are willing to be grand parents or giving any help (one of her friends mother is an alcoholic). So I think she is actually lucky to have parents like os. If she does not appreciate it, it is her problem. I hardly ever phone her if I know her husband is around but she phones me sometimes and we are allowed to have our grand son on holiday. I do not expect any more and make the best of it. Maybe we have too high expections regarding family relations. Being around grand mothers where there seems to be no problems does not help of course (I suppose they have their share also but who wants to admit that). The reason I think why this can become such a problem is that the time when our grand children are small (and we are still healthy and going strong) is such a short and important period. We want to enjoy it and get frustrated when we have to face these problems instead. But that is life I suppose.
We can always hope that things change, hopefully in the not too far future. I wish you all the best and a lot of strength.


Can

Comments from Signe - initial name Berna555 who asked the intitial question about son in law

Thank You so much for your kind words, I really appreciate it greatly. And I wish you the best as well, God bless all of us in our journey.

It has really helped me reading your letter. I'm so sorry you are having such a bad time.The hardest bit is not being able to talk straight to your Daughter isn't it. You kind of forget how to laugh and joke with them. It's all the little things, I have more involved and longer conversations with total strangers than I do with my daughter. The constantly treading on egg shells is so tiring.
I have a similar problem with my son-in-law. He doesn't walk away and is very chatty, but he has a nasty tongue and enjoys saying things to undermine my confidence in my relationship with my daughter and grandchildren. He is very much his mothers son, he tells her everything. And they do loads of things together. My youngest grandchild is 3 and I've only baby sat him twice and not been aloud to have him overnight. Where his mother babysits three times a week and often overnight at week ends.He's cheap to, When we have gone out for a meal, I pay for the meal my daughter pays for the drinks.He does say thank you and how nice it is. I have have been accused of being jealous my reply was "that I have the right to be and a reason to be", Be positive, Fill your life with other things so you don't feel the loneliness so much. My ex-husband her father is walking away, he has told me he is not interested in a relationship with his grandchildren, he doesn't like our son-in-law and can't stand his family. The only time he sees them is when they want something. My Daughter has brothers and those relationships are disintigrating. My daughter loves us all mum, dad, brothers, sisters, She also love her husband. I feel that I have to be strong to keep the door open for her. She doesn't need to chose between us just teach her husband to share.
.

My daughter had planned to make a trip to visit in December 2010, but I know that my son-inlaw will find a reason to veto it.
He does not want her anywhere near her family, because he is afraid of what might be said to her. But no one says anything about him, it is he who casts the negative words. She is not being honest about not coming, but I am not anticipating her visit. I can't count on her to keep her agreements to return a phone call to me, she does't extend courtesy my way much. I have to play the superficial game with her just to chat, she does not want to have any real conversations about anything. Anything that is not pleasant or lovely she doesn't do, her father lived in a fantasy dream world like this. He died leaving his wife with thousand of dollars of credit card debt, she was almost homeless. My daughter is not quit as bad, but she doesn't want to deal with any unpleasant encounters. But she doesn't have any problems yelling at me, or blaming me. Motherhood is a thankless job! It is getting a litter better because I am detaching myself from the situation, and releasing it to God. There is really nothing that I can do about it anyway! Now I just call to say hello, or if I see her on Facebook she will chat for about a minute. We give up a lot for our children, if I had to do it again I would do some things differently. I produced a selfish person because I gave her too much, and then she grew up with the sense of entitlement. Instead she should have become thankful, gracious, kind, caring, thoughtful. But she did not develop into the later person, I do wish that I could have forseen this coming. She is raising my grandson to believe that it is OK for a man to yell, scream, and throw temper tantrums. This is because he watches his father do it on a daily basis. He is learning how to disrespect women at a young age, because she is allowing it to happen. All of these things shouldn't be happening, but they are.Her father was the same as her husband, she doesn't see it! You know what they say "you marry your father" well she kind of did, he is verbally abusive. Anyway, one day at a time is all that anyone can do. At least I am not crying everyday anymore, I am healing and learning to deal with the reality of it.

Hello again binks58

I'm pleased to hear that you're feeling stronger, and that you've found your own ways to stay in touch with your daughter. I'm also certain that with God's help, you'll also find a way to encourage your daughter (and perhaps even your son in law) to make that December visit - even if it's just so that you can see your grandson again.

I can't stand pretence either but like you, I've found that a little bit of it helps to create a "safer" environment for our daughter to be in when she's with us. So, if that's what it takes to keep her and our grandchildren in our lives, so be it.

My foster mother used to say to me, "You need to learn how to rise above it all" and even though I didn't know exactly what she meant by that statement, in her lifetime, I do now... and I often recall those, and other wise words that she used in her attempts to help me to be the strongest person that I could possibly be. She wasn't a perfect mother, either... but she did her best... just like us and, at this time of year, I always find myself remembering how much effort she used to put into cooking Christmas dinner for our entire family, without expecting any help from any of us - except for when it came to the washing up.

So, I can only hope that, in my lifteime, I'll do or say something that will give my own daughters (and grandchildren) reason to look back and remember my actions and words, with similar fondness.

Hi gertie123

I'm pleased to hear that reading about my story has helped you because reading your story... and the others on this site, as helped to keep me strong too.

Our son in laws are obviously very similar in nature... and as you say, our daughters do love their husbands, so we need to find ways of communicating that don't appear to be posing a threat to their marital relationships... which isn't easy.

You're also right about it being up to our daughters to teach their husbands what their own mothers have failed to teach them i.e. how to share and deal with having two families in their life, in a more balanced way.

Our daughter actually made contact with us, last week, to let us know that she and the children were in town with her husband (business trip) and would like to be able to catch up with us. So, we invited her and the children to lunch, and minded our grandchildren while she went shopping for a couple of hours, before her husband joined us for dinner... and it was one of the best experience that we've had of being with all of them, for a very long time... with no insensitive remarks or attitude on the part of our son in law.

So, although it's very much a one step at a time situation, we do appear to be getting closer to a better relationship. However, I'm still cautiously working on developing some effective strategies for dealing with any future reversals of that situation.

Thank you for your thoughts

I'm so glad that you had such a nice day with your family, sounds like your daughter has started to take some control, which is a big step.
I'v decided that next time my son-in-law comes out with one of his little gems, I'm just going to say "Ah, you are such a sweetie;" with a big grin and throw him a kiss. You are right about the strategies we have not to let them see that they have hurt us. (cos my son-in-law enjoys that). I'm sure he must be the same with my daughter in private. So I do the best I can not to rock the boat. I gave her a front door key (in case I have an accident and she needs to get in) so she can come here any time if she needs to. There will come a time when neither I or the mother-in-law will be here and I want my daughter to look back and smile when she thinks of me. It's so nice to have someone to talk to who really understands. Thank You

Hi Gertie123 and binks58

Yes, it was great to have such a lovely day with our daughter and her family, last week... but I'm not kidding myself about there being no further trouble ahead because, past experience has taught me that I only have to put one foot wrong in order to be cut-off again, which is far from being an ideal situation to be in. However, as you've quite rightly said, Gertie, making contact while she was in town was a very positive step for my daughter to make, and I realize that I need to do what I can to ensure that we build on that, one step at a time.

I also believe that you've come up with an excellent strategy for dealing with any future hurtful comment from your son-in-law So, if you don't mind, I'll keep that one in mind for the next time my son in law makes one of his inappropriate or hurtful comments because, being able to respond with something like that would give me the satisfaction of being able to gently put him back in his place, without upsetting my daughter in the process.

Good one.

I had this problem with two people - my sister's husband, who has no social scruples at all, and my ex-husband's sister, who is the rudest person I've ever known. What worked for me were two things - first, I ignored rudeness that did not impact me directly and let other people pick their own battles. When they were directly rude to me, I addressed it without being rude back (not being nice, necessarily, but not stooping to their level, either). So if my sister in law was a B to her mother, I let it go - not my battle. If she was rude to me, like commenting on my weight, I'd just respond in front of God and everyone, "That was a very rude and hurtful thing to say." Same with my brother in law - I didn't get involved between my sister and I, but if his behavior impacted me, I addressed it without putting my sister in the middle.

There is no solution, but I felt good in that I only took on the issue of how I am personally treated, didn't involve other family members, and avoided being rude back.

Hi Dontknownuthin

I totally agree with you about not involving ourselves in other people's arguments... but making sure that we speak-up firmly, but tactfully, in direct response to anyone who makes rude or inappropriate comments directly to us - something that I haven't always been able to do in the past. However, I'm now much more determined to be prepared with some direct, but tactful, one-liners up my sleeve, for any future unexpected occasion when a hurtful or insulting comment is directed at me by my son in law, or his mother. So, thanks for your advice in relation to effective responses because you've helped me to be better prepared for the next rude or spiteful comment that might be directed at me.

I sympathize here with all the problems mentioned. My husband of 42 years and I are heartbroken over our son-in-law. He seems to despise us no matter what we do. Our daughter who we used to have a close and loving relationship with her whole life now treats us with coldness. We are saddened beyond belief and wonder why this has happened to us. It is as if the devil himself has entered our family. We now have six grandchildren from this union and are just in love with those sweet babies. It was mentioned once that we pay too much attention to them and not enough to him. We want so much to love this man but he is so narcissistic it is frightening. His idea of discipline concerns us very much. He has been in the military all his adult life and we think that is part of the problem. It seems he has to control every room he is in and impress all who are in his presence. It appears he isn't concerned with people liking him as much as if he can impress them. It is a true pity. No one in our social circle and family likes him but are always nice to him because of our daughter. We think he has a personality disorder but our hands are tied. He never so much as calls us to even say "thank you" for all the lovely gifts we have sent with great cost to us. They live 2000 miles away from us at present. Please say a little prayer for us!

Your comment "you marry your father" is so amazing to me. I can tell you that not all women do. If only my daughter would have done that we would all have happiness in this family. Her father(my dear husband) is a generous and unselfish person.

Wow, we have almost idenical situations. It is hard to believe for me that a son in law cannot have enough love and caring for his wife and children to try to at least be respectful to the in laws. We can certainly relate to your pain. Not sure there is anything that can be done because we have done everything that we can think of to try to make things better, but it has to be more than one sided. Our daughter treats us like we have the plague also and it so hard to bear those feelings of hopelessness. Many very sad days go by but we pray for better days ahead before we leave this earth and hope our prayers are answered at some time. I do not cry as much as I used to a few years ago, but that doesn't mean it hurts any less. My heart goes out out to you and hope things turn around for you sometime in the future.

This sounds like a lot of narcissistic people with their own agenda, the takers and abusers of the world. We are all somebody's mother or father, and sadly we must stand by and let our children make their own choices. Even though it is clear to all of us readers the who, what, and where of these situations. The sad thing is that there were early warning signs that are daughters and sons didn't pay attention to; controlling behavior, temper tantrums, alienation from others, and sometimes physical abuse. Seeing a therapist might help, but only if that person thinks that they need help. Otherwise they could care less about the person's feelings, they care only of themselves. They will have the wife have multiple children, that way they will feel trapped in the marriage. He might tell the woman "who would want a woman with two or more children" All controlling tactics for the abuser, and he or she is a master at it. Addressing the abuser doesn't help, they do not want to work with you. Because you are the enemy to them, you are the in-laws. My son in-law was abusive straight away, I saw it. He tells my daughter that I have never liked him. I have never liked the way he speaks to my daughter saying things like "Are you stupid" screaming at her at a drop of a hat. And now losing his temper at my 2 years 6 month old grandson. She now is pregnant again, I do not think that his temper has changed. Children do not lesson the burden of a relationship, they create more strain. They are a blessing, but to an abuser they take away from their "center" of attention. An abuser must always be the center of attention, and my son-inlaw must always be the center of attention. He is even jealous of my grandson, and he is a baby. There is no reasoning with this man, he was raised a mommy's boy. And now my daughter just placates his behavior. I haven't heard my grandson's voice in 4 months, but I do mail him books and things. This is the first year that I will not see him at Christmas, and I will not see him on his birthday in April. I can't stand to be in the same State with my son-inlaw. They live in the Midwest, and I live in California. But she has chosen this life, and it is, what it is. I can't allow his abuse just so that I can visit my grandchildren, I will just have to distance myself for a while. The last visit in April he became verbally abusive to me, and down right mean an nasty. I cried almost the entire visit, after I spent around $1,200 on the visit. It just doesn't make sense to travel somewhere to get abused, and the bulk of my visit was horrible. I have no desire to ever return to visit them again. She wanted me to move there to be next to her, and she asked me when I would be moving there. I had to tell her "your husband hates me" I can never move there, he is just too mean and nasty to me. She said "he was just tired because of work" It doesn't matter if he is working or not, he is always mean and nasty to me. There is no reason for him being this way to me, except to keep us apart. Well he has won this battle, because I will never move close to them. He is a terrible person, and I can't take his hostility. Where is the fairness in this. So before you make a snide comment if this is your mother maybe just consider what we, as your parents/grandparents have to go have to go through. Because of your unwillingness to take responsbility for your abusive relationship, and its damaging side affects. The answer is "Yes we are all mother's and father's of someone out there" and we took care of you as children, we protected you, we nurtured you. And then you inflict your terrible spouces on us! How dare our children be so disrespectful to us, it is not OK. So the solution is to just go on with our life's and do the best that you can do, and know that Karma is a *****! And history does repeat. And most importantly "wish them well with their lives" because there is nothing that I/we can really do about it. God bless us all!

Hello Own Best Friend

True about the dinner, it is sometimes just about enjoying the time spent. I will not be traveling to the Midwest for Christmas, or for quite some time. My daughter might be visiting next month though with my grandson, and her sister in-law. We will see, he will most likely throw a wrench in the plans most likely. Although because one of his family members is coming he might be OK with her visit, but I doubt it. I love the holidays so I am going to keep myself very busy so that I do not become too sad, about missing my grandson during the holidays. There is no such thing as a perfect mother, but doing things with the intent to hurt someone's feelings is not nice. And she does allow this behavior to happen, and she just looks the other way. But she is married, and her place is with her husband. I am just her mother. It is sad because I almost diied of cancer a few years back, and things keep popping up as a result of the chemotherapy drugs. She is not thinking about this at all when she isolates me, but it is something that she should consider because it is a reality. And she just lost her father to a heart attack last year, so she really doesn't have much family left. Which makes her husband extremely happy, because he dislikes all of her family. Your life can change in a breath, and mine did a few years back. My daughter doesn't consider the what ifs in life, she lives in a dream world. But that is her life, and I guess that is the way she copes with life in general.

I can't believe to read all these stories that mirror my own situation. You have no idea how much you all have helped me even though I am so sad for all of us. I know my husband and I were good parents. Our son backs us up as do our family & friends.

Hi, binks58

Your are quite right to maintain your rage about your son in law's unacceptable behavior towards you. I hope that you do get to see your daughter and grandson again, when they're in town and, in the meantime try to keep focusing more on your own health and happiness.

I want to send out wonderful thoughts and wishes to all of the grandparent out there, and to all people with in-law challenges. I wish you all a peaceful and loving thanksgiving, and Christmas holiday. I will think happy thoughts for all of you, and I will send prayers out to all of you during this holiday season. Thanks to all of you for all of your comments and support.