Forget the last messages I sent you... I think I was a bit drunk last night... we had drinks in burj il arab, then a friends house, then back at my house ;)

I decided not to care anymore.. really... let her do what she wants.. I mean for sure I'm not going to want a serious relationship with her after all this trouble, and anyway she is not ready for one right now!

So going to decrease/take the feelings out of this situation

But I can tell you that I still want to have sex and make out with her for sure, and see her, because we do have fun together and get along, and its nice sometimes to go to movies or dinner or drinks with a nice pretty girl that you like and really get along with

But that's as far as it goes...

Got too bored of the situation... and of thinking too much, etc...

It has come to a point where 7 months ago (before I met her), it seems like I was having more fun... just single, meeting girls, partying, getting drunk, threesomes, etc... a relationship is not supposed to be so friggin hard

So just going to take it easy and decrease my feelings and efforts... will try to keep it as a sort of friends with benefits kind of thing

By the way, friend 4u... I agreed with most of your last post... I don't know what is going on in that head of hers... she does love me and really like me and is afraid of losing me, because whenevr she feels that I'm walking away or getting bored, she comes to hug me and kiss me and tells me "i dont want to lose u..ur very important to me...u know i want to be with u, etc."... BUT, she also to her own admission doesn't want a serious relationship now... and she is afraid of getting into another one now with me... so that's why an open relationship evolved and I guess its OK for us to see other people... BASICALLY, a classic case of she wants to have her cake and eat it too... thus, the reason I'm starting to get bored

Good luck to me!

Thanks all

You want your cake, and eat it too, why should she be any different. Don't be mad at her, as her terms were very clear in the beginning, and you went along with EVERYTHING.

Sex will complicate things. It already has. Think with the other head.



BUT, she also to her own admission doesn't want a serious relationship now

Neither are you.

Initially I wanted a serious relationship... I swear to it... the way I felt for her was the same if not more than the way I felt for my ex of almost 5 yrs! I saw a future..

But then all this crap started evolving about her ex of 10yrs getting back in the pic... she doesn't want anything serious... an open relationship... we can see other people, etc.. bla bla bla...

It became apparent to me that IM the only one that wants a serious relationship with her!

I kept on denying and lying to myself... and telling myself, who cares, her ex is all the way back in ukraine, and we are having fun here and now having sex , etc.

But when I finally learned that an open relationship means that we can REALLY see other people, and not only just give each other space with our friends sometimes, it was like a wake up call!

STOP BEING THE ONLY ONE THAT WANTS MORE OUT OF THIS THAN THERE REALLY IS

She wants me AND to be single/see other people...

So since it seems she wants her cake and eat it too... im going to put less effort and take emotions out of it...

I still want to be with her as well, so I guess we will have to keep it as friends with benefits

All I'm saying is that I invested too many feelings and hopes into this from day 1.. but as FRIEND4U says, it seems now I'm hitting a brick wall

So I can play her game, and go back to the tabbarat of 7mnths ago... I'll try to take emotions out and keep more of a friendship/sex thing

She is probably having dinner with this dork now, so I'm gonan invite one of the girls I cut out a couple of months back for a date...

By the way, just as a funny note (I think we can all use a good laugh)... she showed me some of the messages this guy sent her... one of them was:

"i dont want to write ur name in the sand, bc it will wash away...i dont want to write ur name in the snow, bc it will melt away...i want to write ur name in my heart where it will stay forever!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

What a douche... but to be fair, for her to see him and talk to him, means that she does like him on some level... and that's what pissed me off, not him as a person...

I don't usually get jealous of other guys (im very cocky and confident), but I do get jealous of the actions surrounding other guys and the girl I'm with

Anyway, we'll see how it goes... the fact that I know she is seeing him tonight and I'm fine with it and instead wondering which girls I want to get back in my life (that I cut out over the past 7mnths), is a good step

Tab, it seems that whenever your drunk you come and post that your bored with this situation but then you sober up and take back what you post.

So now your are no longer in an open relationship but friends with benefits, your words. So that means you can't get mad when she dates/likes someone else and neither can she.

You also stated that whenever you want to leave she hugs or kisses you and tell you how she don't want to lose you, etc but don't want to commit. Yeah, that's a great reason to stay.

No matter what you say you can't continue to be around her and try to decrease your feelings for her. While those feelings are there for her it will only stop you from getting feelings for someone else or from developing into something and then your be in the same boat as her.

This situation is only leaving you conflicted and while you think your have it under control you don't. I think you've more common sense when your drunk and when your drunk that's your subconscious talking, listen to it.

I don't find this funny at all, I actually like it and is going use it for my next Valentine card for my fiancé.

I don't want to write your name in the sand, because it will wash away... I don't want to write your name in the snow, because it will melt away... I want to write your name in my heart where it will stay forever!

A better step would be to be honest with yourself, about your feelings, and be honest with others.

When we are all over the place as you are, and just wanting what we think we want, you get in all kinds of situations, exactly like yours, with the same results. CONFUSION, and DRAMA, and we can't deal with either.

Leave all the girls alone, and give the emotional dust time to settle, and then see facts, and not just feelings.

Hey look we have been telling you this for the longest, let some of it sink in.

Sometimes the best action, is NO action. Then the brain can work!

Real estate has hit it hard in dubai! Prices down 40%, not a lot of people buying, and real estate companies are cutting jobs

Her department has a meeting tmrw and is going to let some people go!

She called me today to tell me that... she is worried and wanted to tell me... and she is afraid that if she gets fired then what will happen with her work visa, etc. etc.

I of course stayed with her on the phone, telling her not to worry, I'm sure it will be OK, your a great worker and any company would be lucky to have u, etc.

We then changed the subject, laughed a bit, and then told her I was getting ready to go out to see this girl.. she got a bit bothered, but that was it.

I asked her if she saw the fool today, and she said that he picked her up from work and dropped her home... she isn't going to see him tonight because she is feeling a bit worried and depressed

She also told me that me and her family are the only ones she talked about this to... it was nice to hear

Then I told her I had to go...

I hope I don't have to go through the same thing all over again, with the firing, and the stress, and bla bla bla!! God Damn! There just isn't any luck!

I hope it doesn't come to that.. maybe she is just overreacting... we'll see what happens and then deal with it

Tab
Lets go back 54 pages and start again... LOL

Hahahah.. I'll still be waiting for your advice ;)

Honest to Pete, man!! Why do you continue to do the same things over and over? You admitted that you can't do this anymore, yet you go back and do the same things over and over again. It is VERY clear now that she is only using you for a comfort zone. If I were you, I would stop taking her phone calls, stop going out with her, stop doing EVERYTHING that you have been doing with her. As Talaniman said, sex only complicates things. You will never be able to move forward if you continue this. It WILL be hard at first, but you have to cut all ties with this girl. The longer you wait to do this, the longer it will take for you to heal. The way that I see it, there is no hope that you will ever have a relationship with this girl. I think most people on this thread would agree with me.

Stop going back on what you say you are going to do. I really hope for the best for you, I really do. But your best will not come if you continue to ride this roller coaster ride. It is unhealthy on so many levels. You can't just tell yourself to stop caring, it is not that easy. Stop kidding yourself and face reality. Sh*t or get off the pot already!!

Now she is worried about her work visa! Doesn't she know her boss is her lovers brother? What could she be worried about? Surely he can keep her job, or at least support her while she finds another one. Or even this new guy..?

How is that book coming?

I thought you said by her having sex with you will show that she is over her ex? I guess that was untrue but now there is someone else added to the mix. I wonder what she tells him?

Huh, I guess the ex isn't a big problem anymore.

Watch you going met a girl that you like but this girl is going be the problem and then it's going be you saying "I like you but I am still in love with my ex".

1) mom, its not so easy... call it comfort zone, call it caring about each other... we really have become like best friends... forget the feelings and all that, before anything we really have developed this sort of thing as if we're best friends.. I mean we see each other almost everyday for 7 mnths, talk on phone, go to gym together, sometimes get each other from work and then eat, talk for hours, know each other, get along, etc.. and finally we slept together (smthg that wasn't easy for her to do)so there is that bond that is not easy to throw away... I agree with her when she says "i dont want to lose u" because I don't either

BUT, I FINALLY agree with you all when I say that there is no serious relationship coming from this girl, and that I should invest less feelings and effort in her and our "relationship" and that I should do my own thing... I finally realized that... arent you guys happy? :)

Look, I'm not going to get married anytime soon, not interested... so its not like I'm worried about wasting time, and maybe mrs. tabbarat is out there now, etc...

I decided to put less effort and feelings with her, and realize she is not someone I want to be serious with

What I do still want with her is our "best friendship", companionship, and of course sex (not only because it is good, but because we still share those nice attraction feelings and butterflies when we see each other)

So one step at a time... but at least I realize there is no hope for a relationship or future with her.. so no more false hope

2) about work, well my bro was her manager when she was working in sales... she was given a warning and told to pick up her sales... that didn't happen, so instead of being fired, my bro pulled some strings and had her moved to marketing/stands

She has a different manager now... some bulgarian ho that looks like a man

3) yes, I think she had sex because she finally is over her ex... she told me the other day that she doesn't think about him anymore... maybe its true, maybe its not... but the fact remains that she did eventually take the step and cut the umbilical cord to the past and have sex with me

And the fact remains that she only sleeps with people she really cares about or loves, so for whatever reason she did it, it means smthg

She is not with me in a relationship (committed one) because she doesn't want one now... she wants to be a bit single/free after her relationship of 10yrs... she wants some time alone... BUT also doesn't want to lose me

About what she tells this new guy? I don't know, and I really don't care... the truth... what I care about is that she told me about him. And even showed me some of his messages, etc... if there was smthg to hide, she wouldn't have done that

The point: she doesn't want a serious relationship now, she wants to be free, but I will always be the guy that she comes back to or falls to or turns to... or also a friend with benefits ;)... what I have to do, is be that also... live my life, but for now, still share that bond with her... not ready to cut it yet... my mistake was going into an open relationship with the feelings and hopes of having a committed one... now I realize I was wrong, and learned to have less emotions and hopes with her

I'm not saying its healthy... I agree with u, mom... but you don't always have to end things like ripping a band-aid... sometimes time heals all wounds and things work themeselves out

Confusing. You think you can have less feeling for each other while still sleeping with her? That will be quite a trick, at least for the first few months.

And are there going to be tamales and tacos too?

Don't say that we never warned you about doing it your way with this girl. Sometimes it is easier to cut all ties in one fell swoop than it is to continue to have sex with her, do things with her, and then try to have less feelings for her. THAT is not as simple as you think. I think that in the back of your mind, you are still hoping for a relationship with her. You are only writing something that YOU think that WE want to hear, but that you are still focused on trying to change her mind and AGAIN TRY to prove us wrong. I never said that cutting ties with her would be easy. In fact, I mentioned that it would not be easy, especially at first. Nothing in life is easy, otherwise choices wouldn't be so difficult

And you think that you guys are best friends? Friends, let alone best friends, don't play games with each other or try to make each other jealous, which is exactly what you guys are doing. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Again, in the end, you will do what you want to do. I'm sure that we will all still be around (for a little while longer anyway) to hear the same thing over and over again.

Tabbarat, I didn't wrote since long time ago, but that doesn't mean I didn't read everything what has been said in here. For every word you say, all these bullsh!t of "i can handle it with less feelings" (that's contradictory, cause you already admitted you felt angry when she told you she had sex with someone else), "the hot tamales", "the open relationship (????)", every action you took, take and are going to take as long as you don't begin to act like an adult, I have only two words to you:

Teenager's enthusiasm.

You already hit up the wall with your own head, but still don't feel that pain, cause as long as pit is still heat, the pain comes slowly.

Can I say I told you so yet? :D

tabbarat, i didn't wrote since long time ago, but that doesn't mean i didn't read everything what has been said in here. For every word you say, all these bullsh!t of "i can handle it with less feelings" (that's contradictory, cause you already admitted you felt angry when she told you she had sex with someone else), "the hot tamales", "the open relationship (????)", every action you took, take and are going to take as long as you don't begin to act like an adult, i have only two words to you:

teenager's enthusiasm.

you already hit up the wall with your own head, but still don't feel that pain, cause as long as pit is still heat, the pain comes slowly.

Word.

1) of course there is going to be tamales and tacos.. what? So she is the only one that can go on dates and get feelings for other guys? I'm going to go out, and meet girls, and live my life... but just like she doesn't want to lose me, I don't want to lose her

2) today she called and wanted to have lunch with me, we had lunch, then we kissed, then I dropped her home... she asked me what I was going to do, I told her I was going to a pub with some friends.. she asked if she knows them, I said no.. she got bothered... I asked her what she was going to do, she said dinner with the dude... I said OK, have fun...

3) NEWSFLASH: this new guy bought her a $10, 000 Piaget watch, and asked her to marry him?! she turned him down of course...what a weirdo?!! a proposal after about a month of phone convo and 4 dates?! hahah

It was nice of her to tell me... but she did go to dinner with him tonight... so, interesting...

Really, I'm not very bothered... in fact, kind of careless... when I saw her wearing the watch today, it was another wake up call

Guys guys! I finally agree with you that I need to remove emotions and effort from this relationship and she wants to have her cake and eat it too! Be happy...

4) really what I'm concentrating on next is when we are going to have sex the next time, and when this idiot leaves in 2 days

U know, a friend of mine today was in the same situation a while back... he and this girl started really liking and caring about each other and dated and got close, but then he had to leave the country for work... they each eventually led different lives and met other people, but they would talk on the phone from time to time.. and every time he would go back home, he would have sex with her, go for dinners, drinks, etc... he told me that they have a bond that will always be there, but they both know they can't be together

So his advice: try to not get too attached.. live your life as she does hers... but you both know that when you are together, you should enjoy it and you will always feel smthg for each other

He said that I had been waiting for 7 mnths for her to finally have sex with me... now that I got it, I just want to quit? Then what was all the wait for?

I agree... try to decrease feelings, but no reason to cut out someone very close to me just yet... anyway, she told me again today, "ur in my heart, u always will be"... how sweet...

Anyway, take care and goodnight

...anyway, she told me again today, "ur in my heart, u always will be"...how sweet...



Sorry tab but not "how sweet"

How convenient (FOR HER)... this just keeps you on the leash.

It's funny you stated that you don't care about her seeing this other guy but yet you calls him names like weirdo or idiot.

So now tour waiting to have your next sexual encounter with her. How sweet!

Next your going be hearing I like you but I like this new guy more. That's the next title of your thread. Also, she is only telling you what he's telling her but she not telling you what she is telling him.

I trying to figur out who got more game you or her? Hmm, I must say at this time she does.

Yeah he is a weirdo... just from his actions... I don't have to call him by his name to prove I'm OK with it...

If it gets to a point where she likes this new guy more than me, then that is what happens... so be it... nothing I can do... but I will believe it when she stops having sex with me, kissing me, making out, holding hands, and going on dates with me

He comes to dubai maybe a total of one week/10 days a month... so I wonder what she will tell him when he is not here?

I wonder if she told him she had lunch with me today and we kissed, I wonder if she told him we slept with each other a couple of days ago

And he asked her to marry him after 4 dates? Good luck.. especially with her! Hahah..

Anyway, she tells me what they do and showed me some messages and told me about the proposal... she doesn't have to do that, or she can lie...

Anyway, let her do what she wants... but I'm going to do the same...

Your last post just expresses how much of a game this truly is.

Its been a game from day 1 my friend!

U think I wanted this... I really wanted a serious relationship with this girl.. but first the ex of 10 yrs came back in the pic after 4 mnths... then the break up, then the talking again, then the open relaytionship, now this new fool

Didn't catch a break

Not saying its healthy or right.. and not what I hoped would turn out between us, but this is how it turned out

Think of it this way... if we didn't really like/care/love each other on SOME level... would it have lasted this long? For Gods' sake! I really think this will get to 100 pages :S

its been a game from day 1 my friend!

u think i wanted this...i really wanted a serious relationship with this girl..but first the ex of 10 yrs came back in the pic after 4 mnths...then the break up, then the talking again, then the open relaytionship, now this new fool

didnt catch a break

not saying its healthy or right..and not what i hoped would turn out between us, but this is how it turned out

think of it this way...if we didnt really like/care/love each other on SOME level...would it have lasted this long?! for Gods' sake! i really think this will get to 100 pages :S

Its lasted this long only because you both get something out of this game. Once one does not it will end shall you see.

Interesting... really.. please elaborate...

I agree with what you said... im already decreasing the emotional... if/when the physical goes, then their will be nothing left, except friendship

But tell me what is she getting and what am I getting? If your thinking sex, it has only been a week since waiting for 7 mnths!

interesting...really..please elaborate...

i agree with what u said...im already decreasing the emotional...if/when the physical goes, then their will be nothing left, except friendship

but tell me what is she getting and what am i getting? if ur thinking sex, it has only been a week since waiting for 7 mnths!

What you get is excitement. The thrill of chasing something you can't have. You want her and this game is to catch her! Your anger towards he actions of being with someone else are the examples I'm showing here. Someone else got her so you get upset because its not you. You will deny this but its clear from an outside view.

What I'd see her getting out of all of this is a relationship without the rules of a relationship. She comes to you when she wants company or physical contact. You are a pillow for her to lay things on and comfort her but in the morning she leaves to enjoy the rest of the world if you get my metaphor here. But you allow yourself to be called upon like a dog and there clearly isn't any respect in this relationship.

You do things wanting a reaction from her. You tell her things to make her mad and jealous waiting for a reaction. You are starting on a very bumpy and dirty road which will most certainly end badly if you do end up with her. Which I doubt because once the chase is over so is the "relationship or friendship".

I agree with most of your post

I do get excitement, companionship, we have fun, and of course sex.. true..

Someone else got her? Who? Since when is dating someone, but still being with me and kissing me, "got her", or a relationship?

I'm not upset that he got her, because he didn't... im upset that there is now another obstacle/distraction to my hopes of being in a serious relationship with her...

I was blind before, but her seeing this other dude was a wake up call that I should also do the same and invest less emotions

She has me for comfort... I agree... but so do I... we both want to see each other equally... and we both keep saying "i dont want to lose u"

I agree with your last paragraph word for word

Tab
She could be Hugging and kissing him too , even having Sex with him.

She wouldn't tell you if she was , as I'm sure she hasn't told him that about you.

Tab
She could be Hugging and kissing him too , even having Sex with him.

She wouldn't tell you if she was , as i'm sure she hasn't told him that about you.

Yup.


Tab if you agree with my last paragraph why continue?

You sit on the side lines like a lost puppy. She calls you come! She wants lunch you take her. Jesus man do you have a pair? Stop playing games. State your intentions and tell her what you want. Other wise you both just dance around the fire until one of you get burned and want to dance no more.

I don't think this whole relationship started right because as mention in the beginning you can expect someone to commit to you when their not completely over their ex, it complicates things.

I don't even think her ex no longer an issue. She just wants to have fun and keeping 2 life boats around, you and her ex. The new guy is the thrill and the excitement.

You can't honestly said you can decrease your feeling for her when they're there. It will keep you from moving on and then your be stuck.

I think she might be hugging and kissing him also... but sex? Now? It's a possibility, but I doubt it... too soon for her

Anyway, even if she did... she has a right to... just like I have a rght to kiss or screw someone else

The question is what happens when she has to eventually decide who to keep sleeping with...

She may sleep with him and me... but for how long can it go on for?

All I can do is I guess practice safe sex, and not think about if she is sleeping with him or not.. and try to enjoy and live my own life as well

i think she might be hugging and kissing him also...but sex? now? its a possibility, but i doubt it...too soon for her

anyway, even if she did...she has a right to...just like i have a rght to kiss or screw someone else

the question is what happens when she has to eventually decide who to keep sleeping with...

she may sleep with him and me...but for how long can it go on for?

all i can do is i guess practice safe sex, and not think about if she is sleeping with him or not..and try to enjoy and live my own life as well

Enjoy your game. As personally I hate playing games with lives. She won't ever have to decide if you keep allowing both worlds. You are the enabler so stop it or continue until sh*t hits the fan and you are left alone.

i think she might be hugging and kissing him also...but sex? now? its a possibility, but i doubt it...too soon for her

anyway, even if she did...she has a right to...just like i have a rght to kiss or screw someone else

the question is what happens when she has to eventually decide who to keep sleeping with...

she may sleep with him and me...but for how long can it go on for?

all i can do is i guess practice safe sex, and not think about if she is sleeping with him or not..and try to enjoy and live my own life as well


Or you could tell her to play her little games with someone else because your OFF to pursue a normal relationship with someone who is willing to commit themselves fully to YOU.

I agree with liz28 post

But trust me, the more I see of her enjoying/living the single life, the more it makes me want to do the same and decrease feelings

And the boys brought up a good point... she may be kissing/sleeping with both of us... if that's the case, then I have some catching up to do

i agree with liz28 post

but trust me, the more i see of her enjoying/living the single life, the more it makes me want to do the same and decrease feelings

and the boys brought up a good point...she may be kissing/sleeping with both of us...if thats the case, then i have some catching up to do

Jesus Christ man its not a game. You don't score points for doing crap like that. Man you are thick headed and slow to learn. I bet you were the child who put their hand on the hot stove many times over before realizing it brings pain. You take all advice and throw it out the window and continue to do what you want. Not once have you done anything suggested. You just say I agree and do the exact opposite. I see the only reason you want this thread to keep going is to get reactions you are the type of person who strives on that. If I were a moderator I'd end this.

Hmmm... if she is sleeping with him, I have to really see if I can handle sharing her physically with someone else?

I don't know if I can block it out when I'm having sex with her...

But I do know that I am still able to kiss her when I think she may be kissing him also

hmmm...if she is sleeping with him, i have to really see if i can handle sharing her physically with someone else?!

i dont know if i can block it out when im having sex with her...

but i do know that i am still able to kiss her when i think she may be kissing him also

I give up with you man. Did you read my last post?

So you don't care she is probably screwing her? Its cool it's a game to you. Who will win you or new guy. Yeah lets all wait and see!

What do you want... for me to end it because she is dating someone else?

To the new guy, she is also dating me...

We both agreed that we would see other people, but we "will always have each other and dont want to lose each other"

Look, I'm going to go out and date and meet other girls and have sex too... isnt that the right thing to do? But its easier said then done to just cut it... takes time... there are still feelings there, and a bond, and now sex

what do u want...for me to end it bc she is dating someone else?

to the new guy, she is also dating me....

we both agreed that we would see other ppl, but we "will always have each other and dont want to lose each other"

look, im gonna go out and date and meet other girls and have sex too...isnt that the right thing to do?! but its easier said then done to just cut it...takes time...there are still feelings there, and a bond, and now sex

Sex only has the power you give it. You have no problem having sex with other people with no emotions attached.

So you want to be on the back burner is that your thing? Like being that guy who is just there? Never be serious but the one who she can always rely on? Old Faithful?

Of course I care if she is sleeping with someone else... just like she is probably wondering what happened with me tonight at the pub

But isn't that what "we're free to see other ppl" is about?

of course i care if she is sleeping with someone else...just like she is probably wondering what happened with me tonight at the pub

but isnt that what "we're free to see other ppl" is about?

Your toying with each other. Attempting to make each other jealous. Man you definition of a relationship is backwards. Never have I heard hey lets date others, screw others, but you know we'll promise we will still be together.

Of course not... no one wants to be number 2.. but we are both not ready to let go yet

U think this will last much longer? I don't...

I'm really interested to see where it goes with this weirdo that proposes after 4 dates, and what will happen if she sleeps with him, and how it will be between us physically.. if there will be any changes I mean

Bro, its not my definition.. trust me... I was either single or I na relationship for 5 yrs

It's the first time I encounter this sort of thing?

I took emotions and hope into an open relationship... does that show you that I have experience in this kind of thing?

But we really care about each other, and FOR NOW, not ready to let go...

If she starts sleeping with this guy/things get serious with him, it will complicate stuff more, and then it can only go down hill from there

The emotions are starting to go... if/when the physical does, there will be nothing left except friendship

I know this

If you two really cared about each other, you would not be treating each other the way that you both have been. You both have little respect for yourselves or for other people. This is a one up manship game, which is very immature. "Ha!! If she does this, then I'm gonna do that".

You constantly contradict yourself. First you say that you could deal with the ex of 10 years because he was her past, but if you found out that she had met someone else, you would not be able to handle it (you would not be able to share her - you even told her that) and you would be out of there. Well, you have proven to everyone here (and to her, by the way) that you are a liar because you are still with her. I don't know if you are more of a glutton for punishment or not much of a man with ANY self respect. You just don't want to cut your losses because you feel that if you do, this new man will win and you will feel like the loser. Is she really worth that?

I disagree with your friend. I can't believe that just because you waited 7 months to have sex and then got it that you should still stick around because you need to get more mileage on her. What a load of cr*p!! What disrespect for you and for her. For the upteenth time, this is not love. However, if you did love her, let her go and if it was meant to be, she will come back to you.

By the way, I have to wonder why she told you that this new guy asked her to marry him, other than to get a reaction out of you. She is playing you like a fiddle. And the fact that she is wearing the watch really says a lot about her character. She could have given it back to him. I think that she cares more for this new guy than you think or that you want her to. If she is just wearing the watch because of it's value, that is also not saying very much for her character, as this is very materialistic. At the very least, she should not wear the watch around you. I personally would have given it back to him. Doing anything else would mean that she is leading him on. If she is able to do it to one guy, then she is able to do it to another. Oh, hey, YOU'RE the other guy!!

Sorry, I don't feel any sympathy for you. You reap what you sow. I just feel sorry for the girls that you will be using in order to get back at her. By the way how old are the both of you? Based on what I know, with the fact that she was with her ex for at least 10 years, she has got to be in her late 20s if not early 30s. That is FAR too old to be acting like this, even if you are not ready to settle down.

Enough said.

Good luck on taking the emotions out of this. Cutting it off entirely would be a lot easier than trying to stay with her and taking the emotions out. Not going to happen. You will just end up bitter. I pity any girl who you come in contact with.

You are so out of your league!

Talaniman rule # 14- Never assume what someone else is feeling, just because thats what your feeling!

Talaniman rule #78- Don't try to be a playa, and you wont get played

Talaniman rule # 31- If you can't stand up for yourself, you'll fall for anything.

Talaniman rule # 52- Know when to put your balls up and go home.

Read my signature!

I'm not the only one that is contradicting himself... didnt you guys also say that I should not get angry or bothered about the new guy or the fact that she is dating him because we agreed to an open relationship?

So if I'm supposed to be OK with it since I agreed to an open relationship, then why would I end it instead of going out and doing the same? Isn't that what an open relationship is?

But right now I realize I should have less emotions and hope for her.. finally!

If things are serious with this guy and it is more than dating, than of course it will get complicated, because then she may decide to stop sleeping with me or even kissing me or seeing me

So what I'm doing now, is just taking it easy... we love/care about each other/have a bond, but we can see other people...

U know what I relate it too... a divorced couple that ended things because of irreconcilable differences and not love... they are both free to live their lives, but there will always be a bond/attraction that keeps them coming back sometimes for some affection and they remain good friends

And the fact that this guy also doesn't live here, and that apparently is moving too fast (proposal, etc.) shows me that it may not be a serious thing

I did tell her that I can't share her with someone else, that's true... but I also did tell her, that if we were going to go through an "open relationship", then I will be doing the same thing she is and dating, and no more cutting girls out!

U want to know smthg: when I agreed to an open relationship, I thought it was just a means to an end... a phase before it became just us... so I would go with my friends and party, but I still had emotions and hopes, and would sometimes cut girls out that wanted to date me

But when I realized that she started dating someone else, it was a wake up call that to her, an open relationship means seeing other people, and not only time/distance with friends...

That's what woke me up and told me to get emotions out of this

About my friend: u only commented on one part of his advice... I know I can get sex anywhere... but what he meant was that now you are finally having sex with the girl you have loved/cared anbout for 7mnths... and now she finally feels for you in a way that she is allowing it.. wait and see where it goes

He also said that he had the same sort of relationship... he and this girl had strong feelings, but knew they couldn't be together... but when they were both in the same country, the bond/feelings would act up again, despite that they were both free to live their lives

But I do have some questions about this new guy... I do wonder why she told me about his proposal and why she showed me some of his messages while they were talking... maybe because we are close/care about each other, that she feels she has to tell me the truth... or maybe it is like you said, to get a reaction out of me... just like when I tell her that I'm going for coffee with another girl

But I can tell you one thing... this watch issue intrigues me... he wants to marry her, and then spends a lot of money on a gift trying to convince her... I really do wonder why she is wearing it... is she doing it because it is just a nice watch (it really is) and feels there is nothing wrong? Doesn't the fact that she is wearing it mean she is leading him on? Or maybe she does like him... and why should she not wear it around me? I'm not her boyfriend... if I meet a girl tmrw and she buys me a nice shirt, I would wear it around her also

I'm interested to see what happens with this story of this new guy... where is it going to go? He wants to marry her, but of course she doesn't... so will she stay seeing him, will she end it? Will she still keep kissing and sleeping with me?

All I know, is that her aunt (lives with her) says she likes me more... and even to my ex ALSO, she says she still likes me more/likes me in a bigger better way because "im in her heart"

So until we see what happens and what may develop... im going to live my life... go meet girls I may have a serious relationship with... and try not to think too much about what she is doing...

I like talanimans rules... I agree... and that's why I'm going to live my life... in fact.. im going to go on another date tonight... distance myself.. try to meet someone else (and not only for sex)... she will be doing her own thing as well... but when this guy leaves, she is probably going to call me or I call her... we are going to go on a date... we are going to feel close and have a nice conversation and hold hands and laugh and talk about work and life.. and then maybe have sex again or kiss

My bet is she leaves for someone else before you get another 50 posts, any takers?

Your fighting the good fight, but your fighting yourself, Tab. You can't win! As a matter of fact, you seem stuck.

I get in on that bet.

I'd like a piece of that as well!

But you have to define what you mean by "leaves for someone else"... do you mean she gets in a serious relationship with someone else? Like bf/gf or more? Or do you just mean that she will stop seeing me, calling me, and more importantly kissing me and maybe sleeping with me?

All I can tell you is that SHE called me today... I asked her how her night and day was... she said they went for a drink last night and lunch today... I didn't tell her what I did last night... I just said, anyway, I'm at the gym now, if you want to do smthg later gimme a call... take care

talaniman, I also want to know what you mean by "i can't win".. win what? Is the prize now her as my serious girlfriend? Because I'm not sure if I want that anymore anyway

if things are serious with this guy and it is more than dating, then of course it will get complicated, bc then she may decide to stop sleeping with me or even kissing me or seeing me


Probably the best thing that could happen to you Tab , like Tal says your stuck. This may actually give you a reality check and get you unstuck.

I guess we will see... the idiot leaves tmrw... so we'll see how she acts when he is not here... all I know is that SHE called me today

I'm going to see her tmrw or most probably Friday (have a table reserved at a club)... so we'll see how her actions are and if there is still the kissing and the sex

Its funny you call that guy an idiot.

You do know you are one as well right?

Well as the saying goes, takes one to know one. A browny ;)

Takes one to know one, eh... guess that makes 3 of us

You know what strangly brown. That's the best thing you have said.

I am one because I keep on replying to this damn thread!

... didnt you guys also say that I should not get angry or bothered about the new guy or the fact that she is dating him because we agreed to an open relationship?


But you did!

talaniman, I also want to know what you mean by "i can't win".. win
You and this females have played so many head games with each other, its virtually impossible, to have a healthy, happy, loving, caring, for real relationship, with her, and it will probably poison your subsequent relationships, for a long time to come.

That's kind of sad really, because I don't think you're a bad guy at all.

Thats what I mean't by you can't win.



My bet is she leaves for someone else before you get another 50 posts, any takers?


Change the bet, this thing goes nowhere, no matter how many more posts we get to.

I get busy for a few weeks and a new guy enters the fray and they've started having sex.

Interesting.

And for the record, things like this are the norm when one is new to the idea of open relationships. One thing that I would like to mention is that open relationships are a lifestyle and are not usually a temporary thing. In most cases when you establish an open relationship, it stays an open relationship unless you know how to structure it so that it becomes more closed over time, pending the realization of certain things.

Does this mean that it's impossible for an open relationship to become closed so that it just involves two people? No, but it is not the norm.

A general rule for relationships is that whatever a relationship is founded on, once that element is removed, the relationship will fall apart.

This relationship was founded on the idea that it would be open and in all likelihood, the moment it becomes closed, will fall apart.

Better pay attention here TAB, This is exactly where you are at.

Thanks for the "ur not a bad a guy" comment, talaniman.. ur right ;)

Its true... I can't win, if winning is having a serious real relationship with her... it seems she doesn't want one or is not ready for one... so that's why I'm taking emotions out of it before I get eaten alive

And that is why your new bet, seems logical... I think for the time being, I will see no change... or "im stuck" as you said earlier... it will continue to be an open relationship/non serious/friendship with benefits kind of thing for a while

EN KEN: good to hear from you again... but lets hold our horses! :) I never said she is having sex with this new guy... they have been talking on the phone for almost a month and have had maybe 4 or 5 dates... im hoping that it will take her 7 mnths to sleep with him, just like it took her to sleep with me! Because I really believed her I only sleep with guys I really care about and love, and am hesitant to get into anything serious now speech

However, although her speech may be true and she did eventually sleep with me, it could also be a bad thing... maybe after finally sleeping with me, it helped her cut off the past of her ex, and now she is less restricted about sex! Maybe I released the beast inside her! Lol

Anyway, I'm sure she kissed him, but still unsure about the sex... and of course not going to ask... just going to not care and not think about it... bc I'm going out tonight and will hopefully have sex too or meet someone I like

I agree with the rest of the post... it is going to be a while before this open relationship becomes closed... and also, God only knows how many guys she will go through or girls I will lgo through before it closes...

But I can tell you that our open relationship was built on the fact that we care about each other so much, we get along, we like the physical aspects, and we are good friends, that it was just hard to let go

I agree with everyone when they tell me this isn't healthy... but it is hard for both of us to just let go, and that's why we settled in an open relatonship

But here is the important update... I knew that the new idiot guy travelled last night, so I was going to play it cool today and see how she reacts when he leaves... so the day started by HER calling me.. again... and her saying she wants to see me and have lunch... we spent about 4 and a half hours together... it felt exactly the same? And on top of that, we still held hands and kissed?

So either she is really good at acting, or I was right: we can do what we want with other people, but we will always have that bond/link that keeps us coming back

Anyway, it just proved to me that it is still not serious with this guy, or she still has the same feelings for me...

Let the real open relationship begin! :)

I still don't understand why you feel it's okay for you to have sex with other women while seeing her but it's not okay for her to do the same. You have a double standard, T. I don't think you can legitimately justify that.

Your right... I don't know... maybe because from day 1 I wanted to have a serious relationship with her, and she was hesitant... maybe because for 7 mnths I wanted to sleep with her, but she wasn't ready

So even though I did eventually sleep with her, a selfish side of me is hoping she will do the same to other guys (make them wait and see if they DO really care about her and are willing to wait)

Another reason, because a part of me still loves her, so I wouldn't like to hear about her sleeping with someone else

But I'm sure she wouldn't like it either...

So anyway, call me crazy... but these are my reasons

Anyway, I guess all we can do is just try not to think about it, and to each one his own.. and then when me and her are together to just concentrate on us

Holy sh*t how many time do we go over this just because you act like a lap dog when she calls doesn't mean sh*t. Forgive me for not understand but if you have feelings for someone (strong like you said) why must she see other people. For that matter why you?

By the way, I noticed smthg... when the guy calls when I'm with her, she either doesn't answer or answers and cuts the conversation short

I do the same when a girl/tamale calls me... but the reason I do it is to keep a vagueness/play a game...

Game players always think others are playing a game.

In your case, she may well be playing a game as are you. Your mind will be playing tricks on you, as long as your in this game.

The thing is, if your playing your games, why can't she? The way I see it, she is the better player, and you won't win at her game. Make no mistake, it is her game your playing, and you asked for it. Enjoy!

You may not know for sure whether she's having sex with the other guy, but I would assume she is. Even though my instincts say that she hasn't, I would still assume that they have because that's the assumption that must be made in an open relationship.

In an open relationship, you MUST assume that the people involved in it are all seeing other people because that is the nature of an open relationship.

Also, if you really want to make an open relationship work, stop focusing on what she does with other guys and focus on what she does with you. What she does with another guy is none of your business. Unless you two have sat down and explicitly decided that you're both going to tell each other who you've been dating, don't share that information.

The only thing you should be concerned about when it comes to her is the time that she spends with you. That's it. Date other people and look for the girl who you can have a strong relationship with.

Enken, I agreed with your post... I should do exactly what you said and worry less about the other guy and more on the time she spends with me...

But I have a question here (for everyone), since I am new to this open relationship stuff: Is lying allowed?

I mean if I ask what she is doing or what she did last night, and she LIES... is that still considered fair/part of an open relationship?

My point is, that seeing other people and each one is free to do what he wants is smthg; but isn't lying sort of a red line?

Maybe I'm being a bit naïve, but to me lying os lying, no matter what or who the person is and the relationship you have...

Lying is never a good option, but getting in the perssonal business of another is not allowed either. If she says none of your business, then that's the end of that.

None of your business is smthg, and lying is smthg else... anyway, advice I got from some friends is to not care/think about it... just concentrate on OUR time together

Went to the concert today... had a great time... actually, I picked up 2 girls girls there, and brought the mto our table... spent a lot of time flirting and dancing with one of them and got her number... my ex wasn't too pleased... but I didn't mind... was having fun.. but at the end of the night my ex and I ended up holding hands and kissing... go figure

WHAT!! You went to a concert with your ex (or whatever she is) and then picked up TWO girls in front of her?? What in the h*ll are you doing? You DON'T do that kind of thing EVER to a person you say you care about. Once and for all, stop playing games!! I'm not saying that for the mere fact that if you stop you will get her (because I honestly don't think you will). Games are for the immature and you are proving to everyone here that you are probably the most stubborn and immature individual on the planet. How old are you anyway? I think that it is time that you seek professional help because what you and her are doing is soooo totally unhealthy, it is beyond unhealthy. It is downright cruel and in a way emotionally abusive. If you don't stop the way that you have been acting, you will NEVER be able to have a successful relationship. You are only hurting yourself and all future relationships that you will have.

Talaniman, I know. I just could not help but make a comment on Tab's actions. It got a rise out of me!!

Tab, I just hate the fact that you constantly say that you care/love this girl, but your actions just don't follow that.

Talaniman is absolutely correct on his comment to my post. You guys have nothing better to do.

Stop being such a player and be true to yourself.

You honestly don't love anyone, not even yourself. All your do is think highly of yourself and ALWAYS ACCEPT THE FACT from those who support your views.

THis is the 60th page and we're still debating the same thing.

3 words: GET OVER IT.

There is never any pleasing you guys! I actually go out and try to meet some girls and do my own thing, I get a bashing... when I stay with her or go with her for lunch, you say I'm a lap dog! I honestly don't care anymore (im sure you guys already know that)

And just to clarify... I didn't go with her alone and pick up 2 girls in front of her! I would NEVER do that... there is smthg called respect!

I had reserved a table... I invited her AND her friends to come... I was there with MY friends ALSO... I invited two girls standing next to my table to join us...

It wasn't in the way as if I picked them up and ditched her! NO WAY! I would hurt myself before hurting her in that way!

These two girls were nice... my friends talked to them, as did I... one seemed to take a liking to me... but this does NOT mean I ignored my ex! I still danced and sat with her... and I told the waitress to take care of her "bc she is very special to me", and my ex thought that that was very sweet... and the night ended by me leaving with my ex, not the 2 girls... her and her friends are priority... and no matter what you think, I am a gentleman... I was just having a bit of fun on MY table and trying to meet new girls... and to be honest, yes, part of the flirting I had with the new girl was to piss off my ex...

And sorry, but I'll cut off smthg very important to me if no other guy has ever done that in his life (try to make his ex jealous)

I appreciate your advice, mom.. I swear... but please don't overreact and start saying its terribly unhealthy and I screwed up all relationships in future... thats too pessimistic!. we are just 2 people that really like/care about each other, but at the moment (or maybe ever) are not together as a couple

By the way, I'm 27, she turns 25 in 2 days... bought her gifts totalling 2000 USD today and taking her and her aunt out to dinner... im so sweet :)

i would hurt myself before hurting her in that way!


..and to be honest, yes, part of the flirting i had with the new girl was to piss off my ex...


and sorry, but i'll cut off smthg very important to me if no other guy has ever done that in his life (try to make his ex jealous)

You would never hurt her, but you deliberately hurt her to piss her off, but it's okay because some other guys do it too sometimes.

Phew! What happened to the romance?

Not all men try to make their partners jealous and not all women do that. In fact, a LOT of people never do this.

Just a thought, tabbarat, you live in one of the richest places on earth. I see what used to be thought as impossible feats of engineering happening there all the time on the Discovery and National Geographic networks. There's tons of stuff to do down there, so for your to still be hooked on this broad just seems wrong.

And here I am, looking out my window into yet another gray New England winter.

Dubai is a great place man... and if you do visit, do look me up...

But I can say the same thing about u.. I would love to g oto Boston or New York and see the night life there...

UPDATE: she cut it with the new guy... she said she got bored.. hasnt been answering his calls and distancing herself... yup, they always come back to tabbarat ;)

Originally Posted by tabbarat https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/amhd_imgs/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/really-like-you-but-still-love-ex-10-yrs-253785-61.html#post1401496)
and sorry, but i'll cut off smthg very important to me if no other guy has ever done that in his life (try to make his ex jealous)

Start cutting, as you're the game player. I never had time.


true, but desperate times call for desperate measures
What's desperate about keeping it real?


UPDATE: she cut it with the new guy... she said she got bored.. hasnt been answering his calls and distancing herself... yup, they always come back to tabbarat ;)

There will be someone else. She can afford to wait, playa.

Took her and her aunt to dinner at the burj al arab hotel last night... spent 1000 USD! At the stroke of midnight I surprised her with a birthday cake... then we went for a drink... she told me that it was the best birthday she had in the last 5 yrs and probably one of the best ever! I really appreciated that... it was her first birthday away from her family so she was feeling sad and it made me happy that I could get her mind off that

Today we spent the whole day together, then at night she had a birthday dinner party organized with her friends... she got some flowers, perfumes, earrings, etc... then I gave her the gifts I bought her also worth over 1000usd, and a birthday card... she started crying when she read the card! :( in it I wrote how I went to my brothers party looking for fun, but didn't expect to meet someone I would care about with all my heart... then I reminisced about some of our memories over the past 7mnths, and told her that no matter the ups and downs we have, she will always have my heart and be someone I care about... you are my lover, my best friend, and I will always hope to see you happy, etc.

Seeing her cry really made me feel like crying...

2 things I want to point out: for all the people that still doubt I really like this girl, I hope you will stop saying that... and for those that doubt that she really likes me, also stop that

I have only loved 2 girls in my mostly-single life, and she is one of them... u know you love someone when seeing them sad/crying makes you sad/want to cry... u know someone loves you when they cry at some nice words you write them

I really wish all these stupid games and ups and downs and open relationships would end... but I guess right now, these are the cards we were dealt

About the gifts... some people think I over spent on her... I got the question "why? she isnt even ur gf"... honestly, 2 reasons... one being the new guy bought her a $10,000 watch, so I wanted to at least play in the same ball park... I can't afford to spend 10 grand on a watch, but I can afford to spend 2-3 grand to make her happy...

The second reason, I really wanted to buy her nice things and make her happy... I got her 3 things, and each one had a reason... a meaning to why I bought it... for example, a bag that I noticed she liked, or shoes that I felt she would like to have because hers were starting to get old, or smthg she mentioned once, etc.

All I know is that we have been spending a lot of time together and we are both loving it... is it only because of the emtions of the birthday, or is there smthg real? I guess time will tell...

Also, the girl from the concert called me and wants to see me this weekend... to be honest... right now, after seeing her cry when she read my card, I really don't know if I'm going to go or not... let me sleep on it, let the wine leave my system, then decide... take care!

Sounds great!

But what's to sleep on? Why start pursuing another girl at this juncture?

Your girlfriend is not seeing this other guy. She's seeing you all the time. She's sleeping with you. You enjoy each other; you say you care for her and she cares for you. What more do you want?

It's your move to stop with the tamales and prove you really do care about a serious monogamous, non open relationship. This is what you said you wanted. It's on your plate. If you keep seeing other women at this point, you don't want to be in a monogamous relationship.

Sorry I'm cranky, but I just don't get what more you could ask for at this point. I never thought were being taken advantage of, by the way. But I think you are sending her very mixed signals and it doesn't surprise me that she get upset sometimes. Try being consistent, loyal, and faithful...

I wish! But I also got some people saying that "she will meet someone else, she can afford to wait"

This is what I'm wondering... if these past few days were just an emotional surge because of her birthday, or is it improvement?

I guess all I can do is wait and see how it goes for about a week (till she's "birthdayed" out)

Sometimes I get the feel that she just wants to be with me, and sometimes I get the feel that she still doesn't want a serious monogamous relationship...

And to be honest... until I'm 100 percent sure that things have been going great for a while, I'm not going to risk getting rejected and bring up the lets get back together speech

And true she cut it with this new guy, but did she do it for me, or for herself, or is it a phase and she may meet someone else, etc... too many questions still

I think I'm going to wait, and then have another serious conversation soon

And about the tamales, they were always just a means of me trying to move on or get sex... the moment my ex decides that she is ready for smthg serious, then so will I... and I will obviously stop the tamales...

But I also think it is wrong for me to base my life on hers... like she cut it with the guy... is it right for me to cut it with the girl merely because she is free now?

Too many questions and too tipsy to think :)

Thanks for the advice :)

You can't make someone want you or love you.. harsh as that is and whenever someone says *I need space* or any of those other little put offs they really mean they want to call it off and they are trying to spare your feelings.
I say cut your losses and find someone who is not into head games and knows what she wants.
Best of luck!

Tab I don't think there is a person on here who does not want to see you happy
You post here for views and we suer give them

Everyone as you know has the right to tell you
There views on this subject

I do hope these games get put out the window

Just be careful

Tab, I think your up to book #2.

The thing that continue to confuse me is that if your get along so well, your both like/care for one another then what's with all the games?

Life is short and tomorrow is never promise. The ex shouldn't even be an issue at this point and I've heard about people doing what your are doing for years but in reality they wasted time with one another by playing games. The only games I play are board games, Xbox, Playstation, and Wii.

took her and her aunt to dinner at the burj al arab hotel last night...spent 1000 USD!... then i gave her the gifts i bought her also worth over 1000usd,

i can't afford to spend 10 grand on a watch, but i can afford to spend 2-3 grand to make her happy...

Christ Almighty. I was broke for two weeks when I spent $150 on the 4G iPod Nano. They must have ridiculous casinos down there; I'd be in heaven.



this is what im wondering...if these past few days were just an emotional surge bc of her birthday, or is it improvement?... sometimes i get the feel that she just wants to be with me, and sometimes i get the feel that she still doesnt want a serious monogamous relationship... and to be honest...until im 100 percent sure that things have been going great for a while, im not gonna risk getting rejected and bring up the lets get back together speech and true she cut it with this new guy, but did she do it for me, or for herself, or is it a phase and she may meet someone else, etc...too many questions still

I think we finally got through to you.

At least with me, I just wish that you would stop with all of the games (i.e. trying to make her jealous, etc.). I would just hate for you to waste a lot of time with this girl if she is not able to give you what you want. It is VERY apparent that you want a serious relationship with her, but is she willing to give that to you? I honestly don't think so.

I truly believe that you are a nice guy and I do admire your persistence. However, you can't make another person want what you want. They need to want that for themselves. Although you don't want to have a serious conversation with her about your wants, I still think that it is a necessary thing. Otherwise, you will be strung along for a long time. Are you willing to do that? I don't see this changing in the real near future, if it EVER does. The only way that things will change is if SHE wants to change things. Right now, it is working for her because she has you to buy her expensive gifts, take her out to expensive dinners and lunches, etc. In some ways, you are acting as a couple, but you really are not. You tell the waitress that this girl is special to you, but then on the flip side, you can't call her your girlfriend. To me, this is messed up.

Sorry if I offended you by saying that you will have relationship problems in the future. What I meant to say is that with every relationship experience that you have, you learn something; both good and bad. When you are taken advantage of (which I think that you have been to a certain degree) that creates baggage if the relationship does not work out that you bring to future relationships. You worry that the new person you are with will treat you in the same manner, when they may not. But, it makes you defensive because you don't want to get hurt in the same way. That is what I meant, NOT that you are not capable of having meaningful relationships ever. But, the longer the games continue, the more baggage that you create for yourself.

Good luck to you. I really wish you well. But PLEASE stop with the game playing if you truly care for this girl. Don't try to make her jealous by telling her that you are going out with someone else. Since you are in an open relationship, you have the right to see other people, as does she. If you were in a committed relationship, which you are not, then I would not be saying that.

I hope that I made myself a little clearer. I personally don't like open relationships because they are so confusing, but that is just me.

sometimes I get the feel that she just wants to be with me, and sometimes I get the feel that she still doesn't want a serious monogamous relationship...

That's when you need to back off, and not accept what you don't want. That's why you are where your at now, in an open confusion... er... relationship.

and to be honest... until I'm 100 percent sure that things have been going great for a while, I'm not going to risk getting rejected and bring up the lets get back together speech

Basing your actions on fear, will get you no where, as your seeing. You have always had other options that have been offered to you, which fear keeps you from considering.

When you love someone you don't turn around, and kick them in the butt. (tamales, others) That's the games you two are playing. If she isn't worth the risk of a heart break, then my friend your wasting your time any way.

Your sending each other mixed signals out of fear, of being hurt or abandoned, and that leads to confusion, and the games your playing. That needs to stop, as someone has to take a stand, and say enough is enough, and put this on a course of honesty, and truth! For whatever reason, you haven't done that, so keep doing what your doing, and stay confused, or take some advice, and take a chance, and lay things out so you can deal with this honestly.

Yes, Talaniman is correct. (I tried to give you a greenie Tal, but it would not let me).

The key to all of this is that there is a lack of honesty. You may want to continue to avoid discussions out of fear of the unknown, but it all needs to be addressed soon. Otherwise, you run the risk of things never changing. The keys to any GOOD relationship is honesty, trust and communication. All of this is lacking in this relationship. That is why you have so much confusion.

I agree with Tal and Mom.

Further, I think as long as you are not fully committed, your girl will not be. You are waiting for her to be fully committed first, and you say you'll then follow. But it's easy to see she might be doing the same way. Each of you waiting for the other to show the signs of commitment. In reality, she's judging you and she knows you wander and that gives her doubts about you.

If you want her, then be steady and faithful. Commit. (No tamales!) THEN if you've been like that for x months and she's still in doubt, it's time to move on. But you can never find out what this relationship is really made of when you are playing games.

Protecting yourself is not brave. Love takes courage.

I agree with Tal and Mom.

Further, I think as long as you are not fully committed, your girl will not be. You are waiting for her to be fully committed first, and you say you'll then follow. But it's easy to see she might be doing the same way. Each of you waiting for the other to show the signs of commitment. In reality, she's judging you and she knows you wander and that gives her doubts about you.

If you want her, then be steady and faithful. Commit. (No tamales!) THEN if you've been like that for x months and she's still in doubt, it's time to move on. But you can never find out what this relationship is really made of when you are playing games.

Protecting yourself is not brave. Love takes courage.
You got it all wrong pal, and that's not even close to what talaniman and Mom of 2 said. Getting into a serious relationship is not tabbarat's decision. He wants to commit to her and gladly will, but she won't/can't do the same.

His best shot is to let her do her own thing (NC and all that jazz), and with good fortune she will come back, but don't expect it to be before six months to a year. And do not be her friend. She is a woman, so she will feed you this line, and when she does, either give her a blank stare and don't respond, or laugh in her face and walk-away; I'd go with the latter. You have to act like a man and put your foot down, and if she doesn't like it, tough sh*t!

I appreciate all the posts and advice, but I feel closer to slapshot's statements

U say I have to commit first, and then she will follow... its not simple... she KNOWS that I want a relationship with her, but am seeing tamales because I obviously am not going to let my life go by... she knows that the moment she wants smthg serious, I will be ready

Its true, SHE is the one that is not ready for smthg serious, not me...

But I do not agree with him about letting her go and HOPING she comes back... the reason is in all 61 previous pages.. no need to repeat :)

I agree that if you dump her, she will not come back.

I do not understand slapshot's reasoning about her being a woman and therefore feeding you lines. Has she asked to be just friends? I didn't think that had been an issue for a long time. Did I miss a few pages?

And I don't think women have cornered the market on game playing. In fact, overall, I think she's been more upfront than tabbarat. I assume she's hoping he'll give up the tamales when he's serious. So far, no. She's not seeing anyone else; he is. Right? If it were me, I'd be on the point of concluding he's not interested in an exclusive relationship, no matter what he said. Actions speak louder than words.

She didn't ask just to be friends... she said she is not ready for smthg serious but doesn't want to lose me... so we ended up in this sort of grey area/open relationship

We act like a couple, but there is no commitment... I wish there was, but there isn't because SHE isn't ready

And she did meet someone else and go on a couple for dates with him, but then she cut it off

I'm not seeing anyone else either... I met and flirted with a girl at a concert and she wants to see me tmrw, but nothing definite yet

I agree I have one weakness, though... that if she said she is ready to be my girlfriend and be in a closed relationship, I would stop what I'm doing and agree

But since she isn't ready, that is the reason I am out seeing tamales and meeting girls... bc I can't wait for her forever to make up her mind

I don't want to lose her too and we have a great time together and the feelings are there, etc... but I can't stop my life waiting for her to commit... just as she can't stop her life and live like a nun until she is ready to be serious with someone

Too confusing and too many questions... so I try to just relax, not think about it a lot and just enjoy OUR time together

Anyway, she called me today to say thank you again for the gifts and giving her a great birthday... she wanted to see me... so I passed by her house for 10 minutes and we had a nice talk and kissed a bit... then she went to bed because she had to wake up early and I went out with my friends

My family is coming into town for about 6 days tmrw, so I will be a bit busy with them,. maybe that's a good thing... we'll see

[QUOTE=tabbarat;1409616]
I agree I have one weakness, though... that if she said she is ready to be my girlfriend and be in a closed relationship, I would stop what I'm doing and agree/QUOTE]

I am glad to hear that. This is not a weakness! It's a strength.

That's the problem, she doesn't want what you want. At least not now, and I can understand that, after a 10 year relationship.

I can understand it also to some extent... so it is a question of: do I wait around until she is ready to commit, or do I just let go and hope when she is ready she will call?

I know it is on some levels wrong to wait around; but I also know that we make a great couple, and when she is ready we can have smthg good

Anyway... not going to get into this again... this issue was already beaten to death

i can understand it also to some extent...so it is a question of: do i wait around until she is ready to commit, or do i just let go and hope when she is ready she will call?


For all the toing and froing on this thread this really is the bottom line in this situation.

And ultimately Tab you have to make the decision about whether its worth the effort or not.

Dude, you have got nothing with this girl. She does not like you. You're just the backup guy. When a girl tells you any of this, I am confused, shy, need space, lets be friends or anything along that line it means she has very little interest in you. Now let that sink! Do you think if George clooney came alone and asked her she would to him she is in love with her ex or she is confused? She would not even mention her ex (he does not exist). So now just move on to the next girl, save yourself.

You think if Heidi Klum came to me, I would tell her "no, sorry, im in love with this girl, or i really like this girl, etc.?" of course not...

Its poor logic..

Look at the facts... she wants me around just as much as I want her around... she calls me and wants to do things with me even more than I do sometimes... she decided to sleep with me... re-read the post about her crying when she read what I wrote her on her birthday card... etc... so I ask myself, if she doesn't like me or doesn't care (as you say), why all the effort from her side as well?

I agree maybe she doesn't want anything gserious right now... but to bluntly say she doesn't like you is wrong... especially when her words and actions show otherwise

Anyway, I hate going into this again... it has been beaten to death over the last 62 pages... move on

when a girl tells you any of this, i am confused, shy, need space, lets be friends or anything along that line it means she has very little interest in you.

So, Face_Reality, do you think that applies to men as well? If a guy says he "needs space" or is "not sure what he wants," does that mean he's not interested? Are you saying any ambivalence or doubt signals lack of interest and the other person should always move on to someone who is certain?

It think that this is an interesting story of settling for what ever you can get, and the length people will go to get what they think they want.

Just me, if a female doesn't want to move to the next level, after 7 months, that makes us friends, not kissy face, or with benefits, FRIENDS.

As much as we can feel, and care for another person, Ain't that much love in the world to go this long without a true understanding of where things are going. Or at least try things the right way. Oh wait, he did that, and she dumped him for her 10 year ex, she hasn't gotten over.

Despite the sex, (not enough to mean a darn thing, but enough to keep him emotionally involved.) and making out, this has gone round, and round and until someone ends it for good, it will continue to go round, and round. That's why this thread has gone so long, and not gotten anywhere. Its sitting the same place it was at the start.

So until someone gets tired enough, or courage enough to break this cycle, round and round it goes, where it stops no one knows.

Sadly when the real truth comes out, all anyone will remember is "I told you so"

Tab, your aren't the only one who has come here stuck, but your getting close to the record for being stuck for so long. Re evaluate your own stubborn, never quite attitude and see if this is all worth it.

Or examine whether you have other options to get unstuck.

She messaged me in the morning asking me how my night was... so I called her.. I asked her out to lunch, but she said that she couldn't because the guy that bought her the watch (who she apparently said she was cutting it with), is back in dubai and wanted to see her for lunch!. I said OK, no problem, but she sensed I was a bit surprised/bothered... she explained that she has been ignoring most of his calls, but that he said that he wanted to talk to her when he came to dubai to wish her a happy birthday etc..

When we hung up, she wrote this message: "you really are someone very special to me. i kiss you 100 times. and you are better than anyone, believe me"... I replied that she is special to me too, I kiss her 99 times ;), and to enjoy her lunch

I then went for lunch with my family... she called me a couple hours later and wanted to see me... I saw her for like 30 minutes... she was all over me.. trying to kiss me and make out etc... of course I kissed her back.. but when I tried to open up the subject of the watch guy and see what happened and what he said, she said she didn't feel like talking about it

So either there is smthg she wants to hide/not talk about, or she just wants to concentrate on OUR time together, and not talk about this guy

Anyway... I felt a bit bored/tired of the situation... so I called the girl of the concert up, and said that I would take up her offer for drinks tnight... I picked her up, we went for a drink... then some dancing and grinding and hand holding ;), then dropped her home... its obvious she wants me, but I'm still unsure...

Anyway, I'm interested to know what is going on.. I thought she cut it with the watch guy... but maybe he came back begging or got her some other really expensive gift... or maybe she did cut it, and that's why she called me right after they finished their lunch and was all over me...

But also its not my business...

Going to concentrate on my family now... getting tired of this situation sometimes

talaniman... I agree with your post... until someone gets tired or has courage to end it, it will lstay like this

I am getting tired, that is for sure...

Once again she already told you that she didn't want anything serious so what do you think that means? She wants to play the field.

I guess she lied about the guy and I bet the guy doesn't know about you. Again don't take her word about certain things but you never know what she is telling the other guy.

Tab, don't believe the lie about her going out with him so he can wish her a happy birthday. But then again your aren't in a relationship so, oh well!

I think you should just ask her. I think it is your business.
You are tired because you are angry.

She was honest with you about seeing him. Ask he what happened and tell her you want an exclusive relationship with her and is that ever going to happen. I think you should bring things to a head. If she doesn't want one, then fine. Move on. Maybe she's just waiting for you to say you want an exclusive relationship...

Hey tab. Yeah I use to be in your spot man. And it took me a long time. To get out of it.

The girl just keept giving me that damn carrot in front of my face and I was like a blind horse. Running whenever she wanted me

And staying back whenever she told me to.

Gah! Makes me pisst just thinking about it.

Your own pride will kick in soon enough I'm sure of it.
And you will find a way out of this.
No matter what.

So, Face_Reality, do you think that applies to men as well? If a guy says he "needs space" or is "not sure what he wants," does that mean he's not interested? Are you saying any ambivalence or doubt signals lack of interest and the other person should always move on to someone who is certain?

Yes, it applies to both genders. A person with high interest level will do anything to make things happen. Where as, a person with low interest level will make all sorts of excuses.

So you are saying that if things don't click immediately, you should never pursue a relationship?

I'm asking because I've read so many stories (real and fictional) about protracted courtship, where many obstacles are overcome. People always seem to romanticize situations where one person is initially not interested but the other person overcomes their resistance. People who have been married for 50 years will say, Joe was so shy I had to pursue him, or Helen wasn't interested in me at first but she finally fell in love with me.

Do you think those are flukes? Or just not worth the trouble now when people can meet so many other potential partners?

So you are saying that if things don't click immediately, you should never pursue a relationship?

I'm asking because I've read so many stories (real and fictional) about protracted courtship, where many obstacles are overcome. People always seem to romanticize situations where one person is initially not interested but the other person overcomes their resistance. People who have been married for 50 years will say, Joe was so shy I had to pursue him, or Helen wasn't interested in me at first but she finally fell in love with me.

Do you think those are flukes? Or just not worth the trouble now when people can meet so many other potential partners?

No I am not saying things have to click immediately. What I am conveying is gauge the person’s interest level.

Let’s take an example:

This is assuming that the two individuals involved have pass the initial attraction test -- without that you really have nothing.

1) You get a person’s number - - nice start

2) Call and ask to meet for a coffee or a drink -- just very casual meeting

3) The request will be either accepted or rejected - - a person with really high interest level will accept without hesitation. In some situations, the individual might have something important already planned, in that case, the person with high interest level will counteroffer for another day and they will also honor it. Whereas, a person with low interest will make this lame excuses, like – my mom is sick, I am very busy at work, I have to take my dog to the vet, I am stressed out, I am not feeling well, may be next time - - you hear everything except, I am busy at this day but I can make at another specific day.

4) A sensible person just moves on.

5) A clown will keep calling – getting voicemails, un-answered phone calls or sometimes if the person has nothing better to do, they might take your date. From here on is a downward spiral.

Yes, reading books helps (real and fictional) and of course, listening to people is good, however, You have to look at things individualistically.

This is all interesting, but listen to what finally happened:

I ENDED IT

I saw her today, and we had a nice time, we had the usual kissing and making out, etc. then I askd her what she was going to do and if she wanted to have dinner. She said she didn't want to because she had to sleep early for a meeting tmrw... mind you this was at 12.00 am... so I said OK, sleep well, etc.

At 1.30 am, I'm in a hotel lobby with some friends, going to have a drink... I see her walking in from far... I call her mobile, she doesn't answer... I message saying "what are u doing in Manzil hotel?"... she calls back and tells me that she came here to see the watch guy to end it with him

So I said "what u think i was born yesterday? i know why u came here"

She kept saying that if she wanted to lie to me she would have said that she was here to see someone else, but that she is telling me the truth by saying she is here to see him

I told her OK, I understand your here to see him, but I don't believe your here to end it! Who the fcuk ends things at 1.30 am and you come to his hotel? Have you ever heard of a phone, or ending it in the day

She said that he was travelling the next day early morning, and he wanted to see her, so she felt that she had to end it face to face

I told her I didn't believe her... she started begging me to believe her... bla bla bla... she said that she will call me tmrw (we spent 30 minutes on the phone-she left him to talk to me)... I told her not to bother... she said "u know what, if u believe me or not, that is ur choice"... we hung up...

I started thinking on the ride back home... should I give her the benefit of the doubt or not... she sounded honest and was begging me to believe her... is there a small chance she really was there to end it?

So I decided to go to her house and wait for her and talk to her... it became 5 am and she still didn't come home... so either the guy is fcuking her brains out, or she really takes her time ending it with guys

So I sent her a message saying that "for a while, i really started to believe you, and was waiting for u at ur house bc i felt like seeing u...but its 5am and ur still not here...so i guess i was right in not believeing u"... then I wrote this whole thing about how I hope one day she will realize how much I care about her etc, and I hope one day she will wake up and realize we are great together and stop the games, etc... but that for now, I can't handle sharing her with anyone... I have to stop pretending that I'm OK having some other guy touch her... I tell her that I love her,and if I did, then I wouldn't be able to be OK with sharing her... I wished her the best and told her that I will miss all the good times, and to take care of herself...

I sent this message at 5am... its now 7 am dubai time and no reply... so either she is thinking it over and doesn't know what to say, or she is asleep at his hotel room...

Either way, I feel like I a huge burden was lifted

Many of you are wondering why I got angry if it was an open relationship... 2 reasons: I really like the girl... love her even... I was OK with an open relationship because I didn't want to lose her... but many times it did bother me... second reason... the lie... I really didn't care that she was with him... I don't get jealous of other guys... what killed me is that she said she was going to stay home and then I see her I na hotel at 1.30 am...

I can't forget the feeling that I felt when I saw her entering the hotel at 1.30 am and knowing she is here to see him and go to his room...

Its different SAYING your OK with an open relationship... but when you actually SEE the girl with another guy, that's what counts! And I couldn't handle it

Anyway... I was great to the girl... didnt pressure her into having sex... treated her like a queen... was always there for her... probably gave her more than she deserved for her birthday...

So we'll see what she has to say IF she calls tmrw or ever... if not, I really have no regrets... I gave my best to this girl... I waited for her, etc... if she wants to be serious, she knows my number... but until then, I can't handle being lied to or sharing her with someone

Duuuude

Finally!

Yeah really who goes to end something at 1.30am! HA!

I really hope you don't take her back man.
I really really hope this is the end.
It sounds like it.l
As you have just now said everything that we have all been telling you. Over the past.. 5 months.


Good! Now I'm happy :) I had a real bad day today
But after reading this. I'm all kinds of happy!

Good for you Tab!
May you stay strong
And find a girl that is WORTH spending your time with. And makes you feel special in everyway! And 2nd best to no one!

And loves you if you have 1 coin on you.
Or 30billion.

And

(((cant forget the feeling that I felt when I saw her entering the hotel at 1.30 am and knowing she is here to see him and go to his room... )))

Yeah that kind of sinking feeling in your belly. And then your heart races. It feels like its going to jump right out of your chest..

Yeah that's you feeling used and betrayed. I have been there before
And there is nothing more anoying than people lying to others!
Or to themselves

All the best tab

Thanks for the words of encouragement.. appreciate it

Yeah... I didn't believe that she was going to end it at 1.30 am either

I think she was shocked that I caught her red handed, panicked, and said that she was going to end it

I'm sure she knew from the day that she was going to see him at night, and that is why she said no to dinner with me

Anyway, maybe she is lying, maybe she is not, maybe she did really go to end it... but I like this feeling of not caring anymore

She probabaly feels like crap that she got caught in the lie.. and that she hurt me...

Maybe that will be enough for her to realize that she wants to be with me and stop with the games...

If not, then it wasn't meant to be... itsa shame.. I really know that we can be great together...

What's funny is that things probably would have stayed the same if she didn't lie... but she did lie... and I hate being lied to... from anyone

Going to his hotel to end it at 1.30 am! What the fcuk... and even if that was true... it takes 3 hours to end it? Whatever... anyway, she knows my number if she changes her mind... until then... good riddens,, going to channel my anger and go out and party and get laid and have threesomes, like the old tabbarat...

this is all interesting, but listen to what finally happened:

I ENDED IT

i saw her today, and we had a nice time, we had the usual kissing and making out, etc. then i askd her what she was gonna do and if she wanted to have dinner. she said she didnt want to bc she had to sleep early for a meeting tmrw...mind u this was at 12.00 am...so i said ok, sleep well, etc.

at 1.30 am, im in a hotel lobby with some friends, going to have a drink...i see her walking in from far...i call her mobile, she doesnt answer...i message saying "what are u doing in Manzil hotel?"...she calls back and tells me that she came here to see the watch guy to end it with him

so i said "what u think i was born yesterday? i know why u came here"

she kept saying that if she wanted to lie to me she would have said that she was here to see someone else, but that she is telling me the truth by saying she is here to see him

i told her ok, i understand ur here to see him, but i dont believe ur here to end it! who the fcuk ends things at 1.30 am and u come to his hotel? have u ever heard of a phone, or ending it in the day

she said that he was travelling the next day early morning, and he wanted to see her, so she felt that she had to end it face to face

i told her i didnt believe her...she started begging me to believe her...bla bla bla...she said that she will call me tmrw (we spent 30 mins on the phone-she left him to talk to me)...i told her not to bother...she said "u know what, if u believe me or not, that is ur choice"...we hung up...

i started thinking on the ride back home...should i give her the benefit of the doubt or not...she sounded honest and was begging me to believe her...is there a small chance she really was there to end it?

so i decided to go to her house and wait for her and talk to her...it became 5 am and she still didnt come home...so either the guy is fcuking her brains out, or she really takes her time ending it with guys

so i sent her a message saying that "for a while, i really started to believe you, and was waiting for u at ur house bc i felt like seeing u...but its 5am and ur still not here...so i guess i was right in not believeing u"...then i wrote this whole thing about how i hope one day she will realize how much i care about her etc, and i hope one day she will wake up and realize we are great together and stop the games, etc...but that for now, i can't handle sharing her with anyone...i have to stop pretending that im ok having some other guy touch her...i tell her that i love her,and if i did, then i wouldnt be able to be ok with sharing her...i wished her the best and told her that i will miss all the good times, and to take care of herself...

i sent this message at 5am...its now 7 am dubai time and no reply...so either she is thinking it over and doesnt know what to say, or she is asleep at his hotel room...

either way, i feel like i a huge burden was lifted

many of u are wondering why i got angry if it was an open relationship...2 reasons: i really like the girl...love her even...i was ok with an open relationship bc i didnt want to lose her...but many times it did bother me....second reason...the lie...i really didnt care that she was with him...i dont get jealous of other guys...what killed me is that she said she was gonna stay home and then i see her i na hotel at 1.30 am...

i can't forget the feeling that i felt when i saw her entering the hotel at 1.30 am and knowing she is here to see him and go to his room...

its different SAYING ur ok with an open relationship...but when u actually SEE the girl with another guy, thats what counts! and i couldnt handle it

anyway...i was great to the girl...didnt pressure her into having sex...treated her like a queen...was always there for her...probably gave her more than she deserved for her bday...

so we'll see what she has to say IF she calls tmrw or ever...if not, i really have no regrets...i gave my best to this girl...i waited for her, etc...if she wants to be serious, she knows my number....but until then, i can't handle being lied to or sharing her with someone

Dude, you just don't get it. You just love taking a beating from this girl. You're not done, if she comes back, you will go right back for more beating. I really don't feel bad for people like you. You are doing the samething over and over, you just don't learn.

I don't get it? I finally tell her that I'm sick of sharing her and playing games and to take care and goodbye...

What else could I have said?

If she calls.. its simple: u ready for smthg serious or exclusive relationship? Because I'm sick of open relationships and I don't like being lied to... seeing you entering the hotel at 1.30 am made me realize that and woke me up... if yes, lets take it slow and we'll see

If no, or has some excuse, I'll say we have nothing to talk about

Good step!

U know, a part of me was thinking "u have great sex with this girl...true she lied to u...but u guys really like each other and have good sex..and it IS an open relationship...just let it pass"

I was thinking of just telling her, "u know what, forget it...good luck ending it...call me tmrw" and then back to the cycle

But maybe seeing her in the hotel at 1.30 going to his room was a sign from the heavens telling me to wake the fcuk up!

i dont get it? i finally tell her that im sick of sharing her and playing games and to take care and goodbye...

what else could i have said?

if she calls..its simple: u ready for smthg serious or exclusive relationship? bc im sick of open relationships and i dont like being lied to...seeing u entering the hotel at 1.30 am made me realize that and woke me up...if yes, lets take it slow and we'll see

if no, or has some excuse, i'll say we have nothing to talk about

good step!

u know, a part of me was thinking "u have great sex with this girl...true she lied to u...but u guys really like each other and have good sex..and it IS an open relationship...just let it pass"

i was thinking of just telling her, "u know what, forget it...good luck ending it...call me tmrw" and then back to the cycle

but maybe seeing her in the hotel at 1.30 going to his room was a sign from the heavens telling me to wake the fcuk up!

This is not an open relationship, if it was anything she does would not have bothered you at all. The reality is, she just would not commit to you so you had to take whatever she gives you and you call it open relationship.

Now listen to me...

If she calls or text don't respond at all. The only way to take her back is if she calls you 10 times and started banging in your door begging to take her back. If that happens, you have a chance. Until then stay away.

Just end this farce in your own mind, and get back to reality. If you want drama, and intrigue, turn on the TV, if you want good sex, a nice tamale.

This is a game, and she is a playa, a good one. You can't win. Going back you lose.

I think it's weird that people here continue to act as if tabbarat has been faithful as a dog to this woman and she's done this terrible thing, when he's been sleeping around continuously throughout their relationship. He was neither being totally open about it, nor sparing her knowing about it, but instead keeping her wondering all the time. That's a sick game.

He's angry now because she (finally) appears to be doing the same thing he's been doing. He was fine if the relationship was "open" for him but not her. He was fine if the relationship was open but she didn't ever act on it. But it's not fine if it's actually open for her too. It's not that he can't handle the openness when it's in his face, it's that he can't handle it when SHE is doing what he does. His double standard is totally transparent. And there's no evidence that it's "different when she does it."

I would not commit to a guy who was sleeping with a new girl every week no matter what he said. On top of that, even when she's been totally honest, t has never taken her at her word, but was always wondering in his heart if he was somehow being taken advantage of. I think if indeed she did sleep with this guy, which we still don't know (it IS possible to spend a lot of time breaking up with someone), then tabbarat's own games contributed to it. A case of self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't think he's been honest with her, so it doesn't surprise me that she lied to him, too.

Time to break up. Enough drama.

I agree with you asking

The thing that makes me happy is he is finally ending the insanenuss :)

i agree with you asking

the thing that makes me happy is he is finaly ending the insanenuss :)

But then again..

He can simply let himself sink in the quicksand

Maybe.. but lets hope not]

Maybe we can finally put the thread to bed.
And have him open up another

More along the lines of..

Oh my god I met this awesome chick!
We are getting married in mexico!

Now that would be fun :)

For the last time... I only slept with 2 tamales... and that was when we were I na grey area... after she told me that she was talkking to her ex of 10yrs again... I NEVER slept with anyone when things were good between us... I had chances, and met some girls, but I would feel guilty even kissing them

I was only seeing tamales because she wasn't giving me sex... but since we started having sex, I haven't even thought about sleeping with someone else... if you remember, I said I took the girl I met at the concert back HOME... alone

We weren't sleeping together AND she broke up with me..,. so I slept with girls... we were on a break/broken up... but not since the past 2 months

But when things were good between us/and we were seeing each other and having a great time and making out/having sex... she was always my number one... no lying/no tamales

Again.. I said I got pissed that she lied... and not that she was with him

I knew she was there to see him... she told me she was also... I said OK.. no problem... but don't lie and say your here to end it at 1.30 am

I called her when I saw her.. she didn't answer.. obviously because she is pretending to be asleep... but when I messaged her saying I saw her.. she calls back... a big lie and game

When did I EVER do smthg like that?

Why do I feel like I was cheated on, but I never made her feel like that

Maybe I met/flirted with other girls... but not to the point of having a relationship with them, going on dates, going to their hotel, lying, etc... NEVER

Of course it was "open" and we're both free... but I never lied...

In fact, if you remember when she asked me if I slept with someone, I told her yes... when I asked her if she was sleepping with this watch guy, she didn't deny it (didnt say yes though)

Maybe I was vague sometimes... and I had some games here and there... but I never lied and said "im tired, but then go to a girls hotel"

Flirting and dancing with a new girl, in no way compares to her pretending to be asleep, and then lying when I catch her and saying she is there to end it

I even told her "just tell me the truth..i know why u are here...just tell me the truth and i will always respect u for that".. I was very calm... wasnt angry at all yesterday when talking to her

And about me keeping a door open: its just if she realizes she can't be without me.. maybe this ordeal will shake her up and set her priorities straight... maybe her missing me will make her realize that she wants to be with me... maybe this is the "shake up" everyone was talking about that we needed to set us on the right path

If not... then fcuk it... I feel OK... a bit sad and "cheated on" but relaxed and ready to go back to the tabbarat of before 7 mnths ago...

Also.. she hasn't replied yet...

It is obviously because she doesn't know what to say... if she didn't care, she would at least write back "ok, its too bad, wish u the best too...hope it could have been different, etc."

But no reply means that she is still speechless about me catching her red-handed

Whatever..

First, you don't know what she is thinking or doing when she is not with you. Stop saying that she is thinking about it- she may or may NOT be doing this.

Also, you can't say that you never made her feel a certain way because those are her feelings and you don't know what she is feeling because those feelings are hers, NOT YOURS.

HOWEVER... I need to say congratulations for FINALLY seeing the light. I am so proud of you.

A bigger however is that I really don't believe that you ended it. I think you are going to answer your phone or she is going to text you and you are going to reply. I won't believe that you will stick to your guns until you actually do. I am personally putting a challenge to you as I bet you are going to back peddle and believe whatever she says because that is what you want to hear.

In regards to both parties, both of you were players. However, both of you had a right to be with other people because there was no committed relationship. BUT both of you lied to each other. Everyone knows what lying is, but sometimes people don't realize that leaving out information is a FORM of lying. Both of you are guilty of both. You both omitted things and both of you lied to each other at least once to each other.

I don't want to beat you up when you really have come so far and if you REALLY mean what you say, that you have ended it. You have nothing to prove to anyone but yourself. However, if you get back with this girl, I don't know what to say. I guess you would be a glutton for punishment.

In regards to Asking's comments, I TOTALLY agree with what you said. I also think that he had a double standard. Let's just hope he has learned SOMETHING from all of this.

Who wants to bet that he is going to take her back?

I agree that we both played games... yes... but when did I ever let it get to a point of a relationship with someone else?? And lying! And cancelling plans with me to see someone else at 1.30 am...

Flirting, and seeing other people, and not being committed is one thing... but being in a relationship with someone else is a bigger thing... so sorry, I don't compare the two

I feel cheated on, but I never made her feel like that... or she would have told me... and I know she would have

About taking her back... if she is ready for smthg serious, then so am I... its nothing new.. u knew this from day 1... ur problem with me is that I stuck around someone who didn't want to be serious... well, I'm not going to do that anymore... I hope she realizes that all games should stop

But if she doesn't, then its OK too

Just to elaborate... yes, I met girls, and flirted, talked to them etc... but nothing serious... for her to lie to me and see him at 1.30 in a hotel means that there is smthg bigger

Again, I don't care that she was with HIM... what I care about is lying...

In lebanon we have a saying... dont be afraid of someone who is vague or omits some information... its the one that can lie straight to your face that you should watch out for

And a question... if she feels like she did nothing wrong or that its normal because I lied to etc... then why didn't she write smthg back?

Not writing anything back for 12 hrs means that some serious thinking is taking place

I don't know the status of the situation right now, but I see the thread here is still alive. Tabbarat, I give you a medal for being the most persistent guy I've ever seen. :P What a trooper this guy is!

Haha! Thanks... stay tuned ;)

You are way off base, especially since you have been presuming, and assuming, and rationalizing your way through this whole thing.

You ignored every red flag, and ran headlong into that proverbial brick wall, over and over again. Now you have a headache that your blaming her for.

That's like being bitten by a snake, and being mad at the snake, because that's what they do. Did you notice the fangs?

You are stubborn, but not true to yourself. That's your biggest problem. I tell everyone you can't change someone's mind, or make them do what you want. She didn't want what you wanted so we have conflict, and confusion. Amazing how that always happens. Easy call there.

Honest communications, and listening could have given you a chance, but now let me leave you with this:


No trust= No relationship, but recognize you didn't have a relationship to begin with, and after all of this drama, still won't.

Give it a break! A long one!

Of course no trust is no relationship... and I am giving it a break... I wrote that message explaining everything... that I'm sick of games and of lying and sharing her... if she realizes she can't be without me and wants to move forward, we have smthg to talk about... but if she just wants to get back because she misses me, then of course not

I think the fact that she hasn't replied to my message means she is seriously doing some thinking about what she wants... sure she is probably shy/ashamed that I caught her at 1.30 am and probably lying, but she is using that noggin of hers... if she wasn't and didn't care, she would have quickly replied and said "ok, do what makes u happy"

I'm taking a break... no move from me... I left with my head high, giving her a great birthday, and with a strong message... what she decides is her choice...

I'm going to party tonight

of course no trust is no relationship...and i am giving it a break...i wrote that message explaining everything...that im sick of games and of lying and sharing her...if she realizes she can't be without me and wants to move forward, we have smthg to talk about....but if she just wants to get back bc she misses me, then of course not

i think the fact that she hasnt replied to my message means she is seriously doing some thinking about what she wants....sure she is probably shy/ashamed that i caught her at 1.30 am and probably lying, but she is using that noggin of hers...if she wasnt and didnt care, she would have quickly replied and said "ok, do what makes u happy"

im taking a break...no move from me...i left with my head high, giving her a great birthday, and with a strong message...what she decides is her choice...

im going to party tonight


Everyone is telling you to stop the maddess but you don't listen.

"i think the fact that she hasnt replied to my message means she is seriously doing some thinking about what she wants" -- YOU DON'T KNOW THAT

"sure she is probably shy/ashamed that i caught her at 1.30 am and probably lying, but she is using that noggin of hers... " -- YOU DON'T KNOW THIS EITHER.

"im taking a break...no move from me...i left with my head high, giving her a great birthday, and with a strong message...what she decides is her choice..." - - NO YOU DID NOT LEAVE WITH HEAD HIGH, YOU WERE BEGGING HER.

LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY FOR YOU, THIS GIRL HAS NO RESPECT FOR YOU.
NO RESPECT=NO LOVE.

"i think the fact that she hasnt replied to my message means she is seriously doing some thinking about what she wants" -- YOU DON'T KNOW THAT

"sure she is probably shy/ashamed that i caught her at 1.30 am and probably lying, but she is using that noggin of hers... " -- YOU DON'T KNOW THIS EITHER.


THIS GIRL HAS NO RESPECT FOR YOU NO RESPECT=NO LOVE.


FR, I agree with your first two statements, but I have to say that you don't know either what this woman is thinking or feeling. None of us really does.

I'm interested to hear why you guys think she hasn't replied yet? I think its because she is shy, ashamed, caught red-handed, and doesn't know what to say, and she is thinking about what to say/do...

I feel if she didn't care she would have contacted and said "ok, as u wish, take care"

It has been 24 hrs...

Let me hear your explanations.. im all ears

And I agree with asking, NO ONE can know what she is thinking... but I do know her pretty well, and I am the one involved, so I probably have the closest answer

I think she couldn't care less.

That's what people do. She is banging that other guy and is all kinds of happy about it

And just sees you as a hurt puppy.

Dude :) forget about it

Come on you was doing so well!

I am.. I had fun with my friends today... I really am OK... I feel fine and was dancing and talking to this girl all night in the club and got her number

But you keep making it seem that she is a heartless bit*ch... that she didn't reply because she doesn't care... I know her man... if she didn't care she would have written back smthg normal

I know that what this girl was scared of the most was losing me... she didn't want to commit or be serious, but she also didn't want to lose me... now that she has, its probably shaking her up

We used to see and talk to each other everyday for the past 7 mnths! Sometimes for 10 hrs a day... its not easy

Maybe she still is banging that other guy and didn't end it as she claims... but I know that me FINALLY ending it with her, when she thought she hd me in her life for good, definitely shook her up

Anyway, I am not contacting her at all... forever even... its her move... whatever is the outcome, I'm OK with... tmrw night another party... no work till Thursday!

I make her out to be heartless?

Oh no no no no. Heartless is not a word I would use for the two of you.

WEll lets not think what she is thinking or feeling

And as you know it is her move.

So best advice I can give you

Stop thinking about what she thinks and feels
And get on with your life.

i am..i had fun with my friends today...i really am ok...i feel fine and was dancing an

but u keep making it seem that she is a heartless bit*ch...that she didnt reply bc she doesnt care...i

I agree with you on that. Nothing you've said makes either of you sound heartless or cold. It's clear that there is real fondness on both sides. But there's also a lot of confusion and apparently anger too.

im interested to hear why u guys think she hasnt replied yet?

Who cares??

Honestly Tab this just shows that you'd jump again at the slightest hint of her showing interest again , I can see it and I'm sure the others can as well.

Stand up and be a man my friend and be honest with yourself , don't let your emotions cloud your judgement and just forget this girl.

Even with the slightest chance that she wanted to be with you , and you have admitted yourself it would never work out , what's the point.

This thread has run longer than M*A*S*H.

Though it is certainly the hottest soap opera on AMHD, it is hard to take it seriously anymore. As it has become more of a daily therapy session than a help session. Like a soap opera, the endings always end up the same no matter how many plot twists. :-)

There was serious advice given months ago and it was accurate and provided a clear insight. This was never meant to be - and by not going to NC as advised, you merely became a bridge to the next guy rather than a river she had to cross or not. She has been honest (mostly) and so have you, but this thing will never have the ending you desire no matter how cool you play it. You fell in LOVE. It happens. But if a woman wants you will KNOW it. Any mixed signals are to be only taken as one thing: STOP.

You saying it's HER MOVE is not honest.
It's always been her move and she chose not to be serious.
Sorry bud. Time to move on.

This thread continues because he is doing a lot of rationalizing. If you are SOOO confident that you know this girl so well, then why are you having problems? Again, you don't know what another person is feeling or thinking. Stop trying to figure out what she is thinking and then rationalizing why she did not respond. Just because you would have done something does not mean that the other person would do the same thing. NO ONE can predict why a person decides to do something. So, when you are asking us to tell you what she could have been thinking by not responding, we don't know and we will never really know. Focus on yourself and what you are going to do and stop obsessing over what you think she is doing and thinking. The only person you have control over is yourself.

Mom, your so right as the time he puts into getting her, he could have gotten himself to a healthy place, and be happy already.

She sent me a message today... it is a religious holiday... so she sent me a message wishing me a good holiday

I didn't reply...

Its going to take more than that for me to consider talking to her/replying

Your doing the right thing Tab. You are absoulely right in what you are doing. Start focusing on yourself. Be careful not to focus too much on partying because that is just a diversion. You need to do a lot of introspection at this time. Focus on work and the good things in life, think long and hard about what you want out of life and go for it full throttle. Relationships should never make you what you are. They should only add to your life. If you are in a relationship that creates a lot of stress for you, then maybe the relationship is not worth it. Something to think about.

Yeah.. I know I am doing the right thing...

"she will only know ur value when she misses u"... I guess she was getting comfortable knowing that she was never going to lose me... so NC it is... I need to let the "emotional dust settle"... (funny how I'm using the advice of 3 months ago, now)

I know that I am still angry and disappointed... it's still too soon for me to talk to her... so I am going to do my own thing and not think about her a lot (try to)... if she wants to contact its her business, but I'm not putting anymore effort

If I contact her now, she will take it as weakness...

I also have to try avoiding the places I might bump into her (mall, gym, etc)

We'll see how it turns out

Wow Tab, I never thought I would hear you said that.

Wow Tab, I never thought I would hear you said that.

Words are cheap Liz , lets hope Tab backs them up with his actions!!

Words are cheap Liz , lets hope Tab backs them up with his actions !!!

I guarantee you that I will not be the one to initiate contact... no way... I wouldn't even know what to call and say! And I know that if I'm the one to call, especially after her lying to me and being caught red-handed, it will be taken as a weakness

I won't call and I will avoid seeing her and I will try to stop thinking/caring about her... that is for sure

Nothing like seeing the girl you love lying to you in front of your face and walking into a hotel at 1.30 am to wake you the fcuk up!

And even her contacting me won't be easy... she sent a nice message wishing me a happy holiday, and I didn't reply... any contact from her that does not involve some sort of sign that she will stop with the games and lying and be serious, will not be respnded to lightly

I didn't mind before because we both agreed to an open relationship, and there was no commitment... but I don't like being lied to... from anyone... especially to my face... her lying to me so she can go see him is a whole new ball game that I didn't want to be a part of

So we'll see how it goes

It's been about a week now without any posts. How's it going?

I hope he is doing well I'm sure he is

Where are you brown bear?

Yes, I also hope he is doing well. I'm taking it that no news is good news.

Stay strong, Tab. We know you can do it.

Well... this is what happened... after her messaging me and me not answering, she called a couple of times... I still didn't answer...

Then she shows up at my house! So I of course invite her in...

She kept on saying that she was sorry and that she didn't lie and that she did go end it with the watch guy, etc...

Then she started saying how much she missed me and doesn't want to lose me and loves me etc...

I was still cold... I told her look "we are not husband and wife, and we are not bf and gf...so u can do what u want, and i can do what i want...but i dont accept being lied to...from anyone...there is no reason for it...lying means disrespect and i never accept being disrespected by anyone, even my family...so then why would i accept it from u..."

She agreed, again said she didn't lie and went to end it, and now its over... and no more lying and she only wants me, etc...

After talking for about an hour, we got hungry... so we went to eat smthg... the whole time she was trying to hug me and kiss me and hold my hand, but I resisted

So finally when I was taking her home in the car... she went "crazy"... she started kissing my neck and trying to turn me on, etc..

So, whether it was a good thing or not, I played with it... so I took her back to my place and we had wild, passionate, yet also kinky love ;)

Then we spent the whole weekend together... meaning she lived with me for 2 days... we spent 55 hrs together! For some reason, it feels like we fell for each other all over again (either guilt, or because she felt like she lost me and realized she has to change)

Since then (about 5 days), its like we are husband and wife... sometimes living together, the talk of the future sometimes comes up, and we had a talk, and we are going to be exclusive... she said she only wants me and wants to see where it goes with us, and I told her that I would cut out the tamales/girls that call me and want smthg

So I guess, we are now in an exclusive relationship... I am happy of course... this past week has been great... we feel like we're on a honeymoon or smthg... I even took a day off work to spend it with her and we went to a spa in a nice hotel and spent the day and night together

Don't get me wrong, though, my guard is still up... bc I am worried that maybe she is a fickle person, and this past week might just be a phase... maybe I'm paranoid, maybe I'm not... im happy, but my guard is up

I'm glad we are in an exclusive relationship now, and no longer this grey/open relationship/we can do what we want/lying kind of thing

Now I feel like it was with my ex of 5yrs.. like we are a team...

So no more lying, no more open relationship, and now we are a normal couple that tell each other "i love you" and spend nights together and talk of future sometimes

So far so good... let us enjoy it for now and see where it goes

OK.. now let me have it! :) I'm interested to get your opinions

You may not believe this, but all I want is for people who come here to leave with finding happiness, and not bust their head against a brick wall.

You always had the power to stop the games, you just didn't use it. Don't play games, in a relationship honest communications is always the key, to working together to build a life that you enjoy, and be happy. Without it, you don't have a real relationship.

Lol man... You should have listened XD would have ended awhile ago

Sounds good to me. Keep your word about the tamales, not just actual sleeping with them, but going out with them and even flirting with them. I'm less suspicious of your girlfriend than some others here. Good luck!

Thanks guys... yeah, we are very happy now... we went to a friends birthday party tonight, and everyone there could see us happy together; holding hands, hugging, dancing close, etc

And of course no more tamales... if she is REALLY SINCERE about being exclusive and ready to be steady, then I will give up even looking at tamales ;)... bc I am always faithful to my GIRLFRIEND (unlike before when it was open)

But smthg kind of "bothered" me today... not really bothered, but I got the "typical guy feeling"

She mentioned the word marriage! I would love to marry her if things stay great, and we are steady and regain our trust and communication, etc... maybe lets say in a year or so (im 27, she's 25)... but she mentioned marriage as smthg closer than that... like months! :S

Trust me, I'm not being ungrateful... but call me crazy... shouldnt we take it slow, especially after all we've been through? Am I right or am I right? ;)

Anyway, maybe she was just "drunk on emotions" or champagne ;)

We'll see... but right now, we're happy, and going to take it slow for a while

After all this drama I would definitely take it slowly.

Yes.

But that doesn't mean withdrawing emotionally. No need to keep your guard up. Getting hurt is part of the process... :)

See where everything takes you take it day by day.

You have fought for 5months to get her just to yourself.

Must say. I would have given up 5 months ago.
But you are there now and all the best.

Lets hope you both get what you want.

If things are good in two years, talk about it.

Why would your guard be up?

Well we had about 4 months of a relationship, then 4 months of an open relationship, and now back to a relationship... and she was always hesitant about being serious, and just 10 days ago she was dating another guy, etc... so even though now we had a talk and are finally decided to be exclusive and discuss the future, a part of me is still a bit cautious or wanting to take it slow...

Anyway, going to enjoy, and we'll see where it goes... ur right, take it day by day, and no marriage before at least 1 yr :)

Thanks and we'll keep in touch

She never got a year alone and she is a roller coaster of emotions.

This ain't over. And neither is your confusion in months to come.

So far things are great... almost forgot how REAL relationships were like ;)... her family came to visit her from ukraine,, went out for dinner... they like me, etc. nothing new to say.. all great, and exclusive... I haven't talked to any tamales, and she is enjoying things as well...

I told her though, that we need to take things slow because I want us to establish a proper base before we get more serious... taking it slow would do us BOTH good... more her, because I agree with ASH when he says she never got time alone... so that it is why my guard is still a bit up

The next challenge: she is leaving dubai for a month! In 2 weeks... so we have been trying extra hard to enjoy the last 2 weeks... spending a lot of time together and making the best of this newly exclusive relationship... gonna take it day by day... we'll see what happens when she goes away for a month

Hmm... maybe I'll start a new thread: "my gf is away for a month.. will we last?" :)

Take care all

Been one year together guys! All great.. but now part 2 of our saga :(... check out my new post: would you marry someone from different religion/culture? Thanks

Hey Tab, long time no see.

I thought we'd never hear from you again, I got to work tomorrow if you can believe it, so I'll definitely read your new post then.

Deleted for chat/text, which is against the rules. Please edited so we can understand what your saying.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/no-chat-speak-no-text-talk-303157.html