Okay, I am not sure where to start or if this is even the correct place to post this but HERE GOES...
My little brother passed away Jan 19th 2007 at the time his ex-girlfriend was close to 3 months pregnant but they had broken up and she was and is still with the same man. She claims the baby is not Josh's (my brother) but they were together at the time she got pregnant, she was just sleeping with her current boyfriend at the same time. My question is... what are the steps we should take to get her to take the DNA test? We have tried calling and she has agreed on 2 separate occasion to take the test but after every call she changes her number. We have had to track her down several times and had threatened court action if she does not take the test. But realistically what are our options as his family and what are my Mother's rights as the "possible" grandparent. She wants visitation if the baby is Josh's? Please help!

Ok-first:whеre do you live?Is there father name of the child's BC

This depends on where you live. Some states do have grandparent visitation, others do not. However, with an unborn child this will be even harder. The court may decide its not in the best interests of the child. And frankly I'd agree with them. I sympathize with how you and your mother feel and you have my condolences on the loss of your brother. But I'm not sure its really in the best interests of the child to confuse it by allowing your mother into the picture.

I would get an attorney versed in Family Law issues in your area to advise you. If you want to proceed, you will need to petition the local Family Court to force the DNA test. By the way, do you have a sample of Josh's DNA to compare?

Okay, I am not sure where to start or if this is even the correct place to post this but HERE GOES......
My little brother passed away Jan 19th 2007 at the time his ex-girlfriend was close to 3 months pregnant but they had broken up and she was and is still with the same man. She claims the baby is not Josh's (my brother) but they were together at the time she got pregnant, she was just sleeping with her current boyfriend at the same time. My question is....what are the steps we should take to get her to take the DNA test? We have tried calling and she has agreed on 2 seperate occasion to take the test but after every call she changes her number. We have had to track her down several times and had threatened court action if she does not take the test. But realistically what are our options as his family and what are my Mother's rights as the "possible" grandparent. She wants visitation if the baby is Josh's? Please help!
The baby was born 3 weeks ago, we are in TX and it is def in the best interest of the child. The Mother is a stripper with a 9th grade education. She most definitely needs my Mothers help.. financially or otherwise. She is 21! We can have Josh's DNA released by the county when necessary.

This depends on where you live. Some states do have grandparent visitation, others do not. However, with an unborn child this will be even harder. The court may decide its not in the best interests of the child. And frankly I'd agree with them. I sympathize with how you and your mother feel and you have my condolences on the loss of your brother. But I'm not sure its really in the best interests of the child to confuse it by allowing your mother into the picture.

I would get an attorney versed in Family Law issues in your area to advise you. If you want to proceed, you will need to petition the local Family Court to force the DNA test. By the way, do you have a sample of Josh's DNA to compare?
While I agree with you on some levels here, doesn't the child have a right to know who its family is for future medical/geneology reasons?

The current boyfriend is on the BC I believe. They are claiming he is the Father even though she was sleeping with them both at the same time... it's a 50/50 chance eother way.

The baby was born 3 weeks ago, we are in TX and it is def in the best interest of the child. The Mother is a stripper with a 9th grade education. She most definitely needs my Mothers help..financially or otherwise. She is 21! We can have Josh's DNA released by the county when necessary.

I'm sorry but I'm trying to look at this from a legal angle and what a judge might decide. You are looking at this from a more emotional and maybe a practical angle (financial support). But the baby has an "official" father to provide that financial support. On several levels, introducing multiple families into the baby's life would not be considered in its best interests. I'm just trying to prepare you as to how a judge might rule, not saying you shouldn't pursue it.

But my original advice still stands. You need to get an attorney and file a petition in family court to get paternity established. Then go from there.


while I agree with you on some levels here, doesnt the child have a right to know who its family is for future medical/geneology reasons?

Yes it does, but that can be accomplished without having the biological family be an active participant in the child's life.

Texas has adopted the UPA Sections 263.407(a) and (c), Family Code, are
Amended to read as follows:
(a) There is a rebuttable presumption that a parent who
Delivers a child to a designated emergency infant care provider in
Accordance with Subchapter D, Chapter 262:
(1) is the child's biological parent
...
But in my view the court will not allow your claim.First-the putative father is not on the scene,second-the child has an established legal father,third-you and your mother are third party here and the court usually is not willing to allow third parties to dispute paternity questions when there is a presumed father.

He has a criminal record... has been in prison. We are afraid for the child's safety Does that make a difference?

But in my view the court will not allow your claim.First-the putative father is not on the scene,second-the child has an established legal father,third-you and your mother are third party here and the court usualy is not willing to allow third parties to dispute paternity questions when there is a presumed father.

That's what I was trying to say. ;) Still, it doesn't mean Josh's mom shouldn't try, it just means there is a probabilty she won't win.


He has a criminal record....has been in prison. We are affraid for the childs safety Does that make a difference?

It might. But there is NO way for us to predict what a judge will do. You can ask us what will happen until you are blue in the face. All we can do is tell you the law and what our interpretations of that law are. The bottomline is you NEED to get a family attorney and you need to file a petition in Family Court. What will happen then will be up to the judge.

Just because a man... maybe not even the real father writes his name on a birth certificate... how does that make him the Father? That child deserves to know who her real Father is and deserves to know her family. Assuming it's Josh's. (which we pray it isnt)
But we have to know for certain... you can't just let things like this go.

while I agree with you on some levels here, doesnt the child have a right to know who its family is for future medical/geneology reasons?
The question is very interesting if we look at it philosophicaly... What is better-to live with the truth in purity and to cut all ties with the man who is willing to act as a father or to live in a stable family?

Just because a man...maybe not even the real father writes his name on a birth certificate...how does that make him the Father?? That child deserves to know who her real Father is and deserves to know her family. Assuming it's Josh's. (which we pray it isnt)
But we have to know for certain...you can't just let things like this go.

Again, you are talking emotionally. We are talking legally. The laws allow a person to acknowledge paternity and be acknowledged as parent if they willingly sign the birth certificate. There are good and valid reasons for this, but this is not the time to go into a long discussion about those reasons.

Yes it does, but that can be accomplished without having the biological family be an active participant in the child's life.

I suppose you are right, but how can the child know unless the mother knows who the father is? I agree, that I don't think the courts will allow them visitation, but I am trying to see things from the sister/mothers side as well, and they will want to at least ensure that the child knows who the biological parent is. Surely there is a way for them to get this even if they don't get visitation...

If it were a stable family I would understand but it isn't. HELLO criminal for a Father/Stripper-9th grade education for a Mother. Are you serious!

PS: She is an ex-heroin addict, only quit when she found out she was pregnant... Josh died from a heroin over-dose. See the pattern?

The question is very interesting if we look at it philosophicaly...What is better-to live with the truth in purity and to cut all ties with the man who is willing to act as a father or to live in a stable family?

I agree, but Im speaking medically... later in life when the child has children, and a child has a genetic problem... family bloodline comes into play. Same with cancer and heart disease. IM not speaking about ruinig a five year olds relationship with her adoptive parent... but without a DNA test, it will never be documented, and the child will never know in the future... Like I said above, I don't know that it will be in the best interest of the child to have visitation with another family, but the child at least deserves to know medical history, genealogy etc.

I suppose you are right, but how can the child know unless the mother knows who the father is? I agree, that I dont think the courts will allow them visitation, but I am trying to see things from the sister/mothers side as well, and they will want to at least ensure that the child knows who the biological parent is. Surely there is a way for them to get this even if they dont get visitation...



This isn't just about visitation... we want to establish who the biological father is.

Just because a man...maybe not even the real father writes his name on a birth certificate...how does that make him the Father?? That child deserves to know who her real Father is and deserves to know her family. Assuming it's Josh's. (which we pray it isnt)
But we have to know for certain...you can't just let things like this go.
I disagree-the real father is the man who acts as a father not the man who impregnated the mother.
Legally-in Texas there is legislation/ s.c.Legitimacy Statute and Paternity act/which forbid such paternity claims.Have a look at In re J.W.T.-the texan court stated "the rights of natural parents are not absolute; protection of the child is paramount.. . '

I disagree-the real father is the man who acts as a father not the man who impregnated the mother.
Legally-in Texas there is legislation/ s.c.Legitimacy Statute and Paternity act/which forbid such paternity claims.Have a look at In re J.W.T.-the texan court stated "the rights of natural parents are not absolute; protection of the child is paramount. . . .'


Well the other "possible" father died, he did not JUST impregnate her. He wanted a DNA test and we are tryng to honor his wishes.

Point is.. we don't want to take the baby from them, he can still "ACT" as her father, we just want her to know she has a whole family who loves her. We just want to know her, she is our family. (POSSIBLY)

She has the right to know!

The law and the wishes are different things...

So it's better to wait till she's 18, go find her and tell her then. Def not in her best interest. But I have already contacted an attorney... so we shall see.

She has the right to know!
I do not know a code,chapter and letters which permit such right in Texas.The law does not have an emotional matter.

I do not know a code,chapter and letters which permit such right in Texas.The law does not have an emotional matter.


I meant the child has the right to know her family and who her biological father is... there are no rights for children?

Finally
FAMILY CODE
CHAPTER 160. UNIFORM PARENTAGE ACT
(5) "Determination of parentage" means the establishment of the parent-child relationship by the signing of a valid acknowledgment of paternity under Subchapter D or by an adjudication by a court.
11) "Parent" means an individual who has established a parent-child relationship under Section 160.201.
Sec. 160.204. PRESUMPTION OF PATERNITY.
(A) the assertion is in a record filed with the bureau of vital statistics;
(B) he is voluntarily named as the child's father on the child's birth certificate; or
(C) he promised in a record to support the child as his own; or
(5) during the first two years of the child's life, he continuously resided in the household in which (the child resided and he represented to others that the child was his own.
b) A presumption of paternity established under this section may be rebutted only by:
(1) an adjudication under Subchapter G; or
(2) the filing of a valid denial of paternity by a presumed father in conjunction with the filing by another person of a valid acknowledgment of paternity as provided by Section 160.305.
Sec. 160.305. EFFECT OF ACKNOWLEDGMENT OR DENIAL OF PATERNITY. (a) Except as provided by Sections 160.307 and 160.308, a valid acknowledgment of paternity filed with the bureau of vital statistics is the equivalent of an adjudication of the paternity of a child and confers on the acknowledged father all rights and duties of a parent.
(b) Except as provided by Sections 160.307 and 160.308, a valid denial of paternity filed with the bureau of vital statistics in conjunction with a valid acknowledgment of paternity is the equivalent of an adjudication of the nonpaternity of the presumed father and discharges the presumed father from all rights and duties of a parent.
Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg. ch. 821, Sec. 1.01, eff. June 14, 2001.

If you have surplus amounts of money-go to court but I am almost sure what will happen... BTW if your brother was not the father and you wait till she is 18 go find her and tell... are you willing to pay a lot of money as moral damages?

If you have surplus amounts of money-go to court but I am almost sure what will happen...BTW if your brother was not the father and you wait till she is 18 go find her and tell...are you willing to pay a lot of money as moral damages?

I am not concerned with the money aspect... I am concerned with What's RIGHT! I have seen forst hand what is does to a child not to know their real parents and tp be fed lies their whole lives. It is a very sad and disturbing thing to do to a child. We will fight no matter what it takes. I am done with this for now... already in contact with an attorney so we shall see.

Every state has some levels for protection of the parents.Texas/like Florida,California and etc/ has a very high level... It is Public policy and the TSC correctly maintained that the chidren interests are paramount...
There are many reasons to protect intact couples against other interference in their life.Let us immagine that you are married and I do not like your husband for example... Let us immagine you have two kids-1 and 3 y/o.And one beautiful morning your husband is given with a summon to go to court and to submit DNA test because I made an affidavit that I had many sexual intercourses with you and it is possible for me to be the father of your children.Also I testified that I would love to pay child support if I am proven as a father... OK-I know that I have never had any relations with you and also I will never pay child support... My expences will be about $ 1500-2000... That the cost for disrupting of a stable couple.I do not believe your husband to say'"Sweetie, I am very happy that you.....this guy and I am happy to be cuckolded because who is able to see no reason?If this guy filed an affidavit I think he has all grounds to disput a paternity question..."

Keep us updated...

I am not concerned with the money aspect...I am concerned with WHATS RIGHT!

No, you are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be right. There is a difference. Again, I hope this works out for you, but you NEED to understand that what you feel is right for you and for the baby may not agree with what the law SAYS is right or what a judge believes is in the best interests of the child.

No, you are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be right. There is a difference. Again, I hope this works out for you, but you NEED to understand that what you feel is right for you and for the baby may not agree with what the law SAYS is right or what a judge believes is in the best interests of the child.
That is my point of view.

Okay, I am not sure where to start or if this is even the correct place to post this but HERE GOES......
My little brother passed away Jan 19th 2007 at the time his ex-girlfriend was close to 3 months pregnant but they had broken up and she was and is still with the same man. She claims the baby is not Josh's (my brother) but they were together at the time she got pregnant, she was just sleeping with her current boyfriend at the same time. My question is....what are the steps we should take to get her to take the DNA test? We have tried calling and she has agreed on 2 seperate occasion to take the test but after every call she changes her number. We have had to track her down several times and had threatened court action if she does not take the test. But realistically what are our options as his family and what are my Mother's rights as the "possible" grandparent. She wants visitation if the baby is Josh's? Please help!
I cannot believe I am reading this, I have almost the same situation in Michigan. It is such a heartbreaker!! I wish I could give you more positive support, only I cannot. I have been to 10 lawyers, grandparents rights organizations, friend of court, the girlfriend, many friends of both my son and his girlfriend and yet everyday I mourn the thought that still a part of my son may still be living and I cannot be near him or even visit. The law sucks for us mothers who have to endure this pain and yet why if one of our daughters, god forbid, were killed and pregnant and the baby lived we would have every right to that child. That really is very one sided for the sexes. But I will continue to fight only because I know it is his son and some how some way I will prevail. Please feel free to let me know if you would like to share more information, it has been so enlighting to know there is another living soul with the same pain I am enduring and can understand how unfair it really is.

I am not concerned with the money aspect...I am concerned with WHATS RIGHT! I have seen forst hand what is does to a child not to know their real parents and tp be fed lies their whole lives.

Their real parents are the ones who are there, raising them every day, tucking them in at night, going to their school plays, etc. Your brother is dead. He can never be a real parent to this child. In which case, I have to ask if it is better for the child to know that the man who is, apparently, willing to raise her is not her biological parent. It's not like there is another parent in the wings in this case, ready to step in financially and emotionally to help out. The only thing I can see happening in that case is that it will potentially drive a wedge between this child and the only man that she will ever know as her father.

I'm also curious, from a philosphical viewpoint, about what you will do if the DNA test shows that the child is not your brother's. Will you and the rest of your family just shrug and walk away, after raising so many concerns about how these two people are bad parents? Or are you really concerned about the child, and willing to try and better her life even if she's not related?

The only thing I can see happening in that case is that it will potentially drive a wedge between this child and the only man that she will ever know as her father
Agree


I'm also curious, from a philosphical viewpoint, about what you will do if the DNA test shows that the child is not your brother's. Will you and the rest of your family just shrug and walk away, after raising so many concerns about how these two people are bad parents? Or are you really concerned about the child, and willing to try and better her life even if she's not related?
I have read all posts many times but I am not sure they are concerned about the child-they are concerned about her right in despite of child's needs.

I'm also curious, from a philosphical viewpoint, about what you will do if the DNA test shows that the child is not your brother's. Will you and the rest of your family just shrug and walk away, after raising so many concerns about how these two people are bad parents? Or are you really concerned about the child, and willing to try and better her life even if she's not related?

This thought occurred to me at the very beginning, but I was kind of hesitant about bringing it up, not sure why, just a gut feeling. But there are clues in reading the posts that indicate, the concern is not really for the child but for the brother's legacy.