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    isisalles's Avatar
    isisalles Posts: 7, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Dec 30, 2012, 06:22 PM
    Was it rape??
    My former FB told me something very disturbing recently. He had mentioned a girl that he had slept with once and is still friends? With - told me I was way better than her, she's so negative always saying she wants to kill herself, etc. The first time he mentioned the sex with her he said she just lay there... and I said "Like a dead fish?" He said yeah and then said she had been abused before. I said that may have been why (being abused before).

    I asked him recently how they came about having sex & he said "She lost a bet." I asked him what kind of bet & he wouldn't say. He just said she was so confident she was right but she lost & had sex with him due to the bet. I think about this girl laying there like a dead fish while he goes at it & I think about her telling him she wants to kill herself when he talks to her now.

    He told me just recently when I wanted to stop the FB crap with him that "No means yes." I said "No means no". We went back & forth like this another time and he said "Fine, get out". (I was getting in his car and started to get out.) He said no its okay. Can't I take a joke? My question is did he rape this girl? Does she need help? He said he still sees her and talks to her at the gym. Is her skin crawling when she sees him and has to talk to him?

    I'm worried for her but don't know what I could do, if anything, to help her. I feel so sick that I may have had sex with a rapist.
    odinn7's Avatar
    odinn7 Posts: 7,691, Reputation: 1547
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    #2

    Dec 30, 2012, 06:37 PM
    I guess technically if she didn't tell him "no", then it wasn't rape. On the other hand, this guy sounds like an absolute disrespectful pig. I don't even know where to start...

    Why do you even associate with a turd like this?
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #3

    Dec 30, 2012, 07:14 PM
    She was awake... and never said no.. therefore it was consensual, and not rape.

    There are women who do lay there like a dead fish.. while sober and awake. I know because I met one of them... She was divorced... (no surprise there)... never admitted to any abuse... and she was very doting in friendly in other ways than that... it only made it that much harder to walk away from her... and yes while I did if I had been older at the time I would have handled that differently and better. She was 11 years older than me and it wasn't long after I got out of college. Between making sex feel like necrophilia (something I most definitely am NOT into)... she was a bit of a lush and liked drinking way too much to suit me. She desperately needed a therapist... and AA... I was not up for substituting for either.

    I do agree with odinn7, you need to start hanging out with a higher class of people. People like him will hold you back in life.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,230, Reputation: 10853
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    #4

    Dec 30, 2012, 07:59 PM
    You are worried about her? You better worry about yourself even being with this dude.
    Cat1864's Avatar
    Cat1864 Posts: 8,007, Reputation: 3687
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    #5

    Dec 30, 2012, 08:39 PM
    I will say that a lot depends on details you don't have such as what was said between them and what actions actually took place. If she told him or he knew she was not fully consenting and/or he was using coercion or threatened violence to make her pay off the bet then it might cross the line. She may have taken off her clothes and told him to get it over with which would not be rape. Only the two of them know what really happened.

    Technically, you should stay out of it because it isn't your business. It may also make her feel worse knowing he is spreading the story (if she doesn't already know.) Do you know her? If not, you would be having to track her down and that might seem like an invasion of her privacy causing her more upset and pain. I can hope she is already getting help due to the past abuse.

    Leave him alone before he tries to renew your past relationship without giving you a chance to say no or gives you reasons to allow it to happen. Do not try to play detective to get more information or evidence. I know you want to help her, but getting more deeply involved could get both of you hurt.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,304, Reputation: 7692
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    #6

    Dec 31, 2012, 02:10 AM
    If she had sex because of a bet, she is only sick of her own stupdity. She did not have to have sex, she did not have to even do the bet.

    I am sorry, I feel sorry that any girl is that silly and stupid, and perhaps she will learn from her mistake.

    I would assume you broke any relationsihp and no longer talk to this boy
    isisalles's Avatar
    isisalles Posts: 7, Reputation: 2
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    #7

    Dec 31, 2012, 05:34 AM
    I don't associate with him anymore. FORMER being the operative word, thank you.

    I don't know her and I don't think she knows he's telling anyone. I hope I'm the only one he's told this to. You're right. Trying to help her may make things worse.
    Cat1864's Avatar
    Cat1864 Posts: 8,007, Reputation: 3687
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    #8

    Dec 31, 2012, 07:03 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by isisalles View Post
    I don't associate with him anymore. FORMER being the operative word, thank you.

    I don't know her and I don't think she knows he's telling anyone. I hope I'm the only one he's told this to. You're right. Trying to help her may make things worse.
    I am sorry I misunderstood your current relationship with him, but your previous post/question made it sound like you were in contact with him after the FB relationship ended.

    I am glad you are staying away from him.

    I was thinking. You may not be able to knowingly help this female, but if you are willing you might think about helping others who have been raped/abused. If it is something you want to do, you might think about volunteering with your local women's shelter.
    isisalles's Avatar
    isisalles Posts: 7, Reputation: 2
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    #9

    Dec 31, 2012, 07:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat1864 View Post
    I am sorry I misunderstood your current relationship with him, but your previous post/question made it sound like you were in contact with him after the FB relationship ended.

    I am glad you are staying away from him.

    I was thinking. You may not be able to knowingly help this female, but if you are willing you might think about helping others who have been raped/abused. If it is something you want to do, you might think about volunteering with your local women's shelter.
    I spent time with him (no sex) just a couple days ago. That's when he told me about the bet. I think volunteering is a good idea, but before I do that, I need to figure out what made me wig out and be with him so fast in the first place. I can't help anyone else if I'm this messed up myself.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #10

    Dec 31, 2012, 07:29 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by isisalles View Post
    I spent time with him (no sex) just a couple days ago. Thats when he told me about the bet. I think volunteering is a good idea, but before I do that, I need to figure out what made me wig out and be with him so fast in the first place. I can't help anyone else if I'm this messed up myself.
    Everyone makes mistakes... thats part of life... as long as you learn from them and don't keep making the same ones over and over.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #11

    Dec 31, 2012, 07:33 AM
    Asking him if you can meet her might help 3 people: you, her, and especially him.
    It will help you identify losers like him sooner.
    She might not actually want help, or respond if you offer it as a total stranger who knows too much about her, but if you were to become friends you might.
    He'll be helped by knowing that you care more about her than him.

    If any of his story is true, she might want attention and touch and only knows sex as the way to get it. Losing a bet is a sure fire way to get it and have it appear unwilling.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,230, Reputation: 10853
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    #12

    Dec 31, 2012, 09:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by isisalles View Post
    I spent time with him (no sex) just a couple days ago. Thats when he told me about the bet. I think volunteering is a good idea, but before I do that, I need to figure out what made me wig out and be with him so fast in the first place. I can't help anyone else if I'm this messed up myself.
    Maybe its not YOU who was messed up. You seemed to have found some things you didn't like and acted rather fast to distance yourself from him. That's not messed up.
    isisalles's Avatar
    isisalles Posts: 7, Reputation: 2
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    #13

    Dec 31, 2012, 12:10 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    Asking him if you can meet her might help 3 people: you, her, and especially him.
    It will help you identify losers like him sooner.
    She might not actually want help, or respond if you offer it as a total stranger who knows too much about her, but if you were to become friends you might.
    He'll be helped by knowing that you care more about her than him.

    If any of his story is true, she might want attention and touch and only knows sex as the way to get it. Losing a bet is a sure fire way to get it and have it appear unwilling.
    Why would a grown man lie and tell someone something like this? Yes, I was trying to take sex out of the equation between us, but had trouble myself with NOT kissing, hugging & hand holding. I'm not proud of my own behavior either, as he told me up front that he was in a sexless, affectionless marriage - with a child involved no less and I went ahead with it anyway. I think its better to steer clear of the whole thing.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #14

    Dec 31, 2012, 12:19 PM
    I was not implying at all that he was lying. I said 'if any of his story is true' (I should have said THE story) because you are hearing it second hand, he could have some of it wrong, and she could be either lying or half truthful.

    It's important to treat truth as truth only when it's directly in front of you.
    isisalles's Avatar
    isisalles Posts: 7, Reputation: 2
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    #15

    Dec 31, 2012, 12:28 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    I was not implying at all that he was lying. I said 'if any of his story is true' (I should have said THE story) because you are hearing it second hand, he could have some of it wrong, and she could be either lying or half truthful.

    It's important to treat truth as truth only when it's directly in front of you.
    No, he told me this himself. It was firsthand from him.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #16

    Dec 31, 2012, 04:22 PM
    I apologize. I was thinking of you helping her, and considering that she might not have been abused, or he heard her wrong, or something was lost in translation. But even going back to your original question, 'was it rape?', it's wise to consider how far removed in many ways you are from this, despite him telling you what happened, and what she said, and how she acted... that's all.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #17

    Dec 31, 2012, 05:24 PM
    He's obviously morally corrupt. Yes, she made a bet, and that's why she had sex with him. But the fact that he made her pay the bet, when he had to know that she didn't want to have sex with him, just disgusts me.

    He didn't rape her, but considering what he did to this girl, I wouldn't be surprised if he crossed that line.
    isisalles's Avatar
    isisalles Posts: 7, Reputation: 2
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    #18

    Jan 2, 2013, 01:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat1864 View Post
    I will say that a lot depends on details you don't have such as what was said between them and what actions actually took place. If she told him or he knew she was not fully consenting and/or he was using coercion or threatened violence to make her pay off the bet then it might cross the line. She may have taken off her clothes and told him to get it over with which would not be rape. Only the two of them know what really happened.

    Technically, you should stay out of it because it isn't your business. It may also make her feel worse knowing he is spreading the story (if she doesn't already know.) Do you know her? If not, you would be having to track her down and that might seem like an invasion of her privacy causing her more upset and pain. I can hope she is already getting help due to the past abuse.

    Leave him alone before he tries to renew your past relationship without giving you a chance to say no or gives you reasons to allow it to happen. Do not try to play detective to get more information or evidence. I know you want to help her, but getting more deeply involved could get both of you hurt.
    I talked to him over the phone today and got better informed about it. It happened a few years ago, not recent at all. He WAS going to give her a pass, but then she changed her mind a few days later. That makes it fully consensual and DEFINITELY NOT RAPE. I jumped to conclusions before I got all the details from him and it made it out to be worse than it was.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,230, Reputation: 10853
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    #19

    Jan 2, 2013, 01:34 PM
    as he told me up front that he was in a sexless, affectionless marriage - with a child involved no less and I went ahead with it anyway. I think its better to steer clear of the whole thing.
    I agree.
    isisalles's Avatar
    isisalles Posts: 7, Reputation: 2
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    #20

    Jan 2, 2013, 02:31 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    I agree.
    Right with you there.

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