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    charstorm's Avatar
    charstorm Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jun 13, 2013, 11:22 AM
    Hello Im new to site.. but have read it forever. This is an ETG question read below
    I am 43 years old, 5 ft tall, 160 ibs. Plump but not huge.. lol. My job pretty much keeps me stationary at desk at all times... but I am in pretty good health no health issues, no meds etc. I am on probation not felony for a charge that had NOTHING NOTHING to do with alcohol or drugs yet they made me not drinking part of my probation. I admitted to one beer at beginning of probation and they stuck me in 26 weeks of class. YES REALLY.. its crazy here.

    I managed to stay clean for 6 months and began drinking again about 2 months ago. I generally have about 2 budlight limeritas a day and I take all day like a 24 hour period to drink 2 of them ( yes I drink slow ) I haven't been drunk in over 8 years..

    Anyway I hadn't been EtG tested in forever but since I know my scheduled report days I stopped drinking Friday morning at or around 12 noon and at 12 noon ALL I HAD WAS A CORNER OR LIMERITA that was left like maybe 3 swallows.


    I then touched no alcohol the rest of Friday or sat or sun or mon and tested at 720 pm Tuesday night. Should I test clean. I def never ever want to do another 30 days in jail...


    Its so crazy to me that I can't drink period when I have NEVER had an alcohol or drug related charge in my life.. smh
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #2

    Jun 13, 2013, 01:15 PM
    You can try to fool yourself... but you have to do as you are told by the authorities or you will pay the price.

    Would you rather go to jail than have probation? You did agree to the terms of probation... so suck it up and honor those conditions...

    If you aren't a drunk... then it won't be hard at all avoiding alcohol... drunks CRAVE a drink... non-drunks don't. SO why the song and dance if you aren't?

    I for example go many months without even a glass of wine... doesn't bother me at all... in fact I could go years if I had to. And I do like wine and beer from time to time.

    Probation conditions are as much about following the rules as it is about acting responsibly... as well as being a punishment for whatever offense you committed.
    charstorm's Avatar
    charstorm Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Jun 13, 2013, 01:19 PM
    I was seeking an answer to the science of the question not for finger pointing or judgement. As stated I was clean for quite some time and relapsed and as I also mentioned my prior charges had nothing to do with drugs or alcohol.

    I am seeking advice from someone with knowledge on EtG. Thanks
    odinn7's Avatar
    odinn7 Posts: 7,691, Reputation: 1547
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    #4

    Jun 13, 2013, 01:21 PM
    Yes, you've beaten the system and will likely pass.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #5

    Jun 13, 2013, 01:23 PM
    You got an answer... you were told to avoid ALL forms of alcohol... you didn't. That includes alcohol OTHER than beverages.

    Its against the site rules to assist someone who tries to cheat the system... Its spelled out in the site rules you agreed to when you joined.
    charstorm's Avatar
    charstorm Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Jun 13, 2013, 02:25 PM
    I am not asking how to beat the test I'm asking for information on the test so I have a better understanding of it
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #7

    Jun 13, 2013, 02:33 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by charstorm View Post
    I am not asking how to beat the test im asking for information on the test so i have a better understanding of it
    We will not give you information on the test, because that would help you cheat the test. Do you not see that?

    Part of your probation is to avoid alcohol. You freely admit that you have not abstained from alcohol. It doesn't matter if you were clean for a few months, you're not clean now, and you're still on probation, and not ingesting alcohol is part of that probation.

    Giving you information on the test, how it works, so you have a better understanding of it, would be giving you information on how to beat the system, how to continue drinking when it clearly says that you're not allowed to as part of your probation.

    We can tell you that you likely dodged the bullet this time. But we cannot and will not tell you how the test works so that you're able to beat it the next time.

    I do think that you should be posting a question in the addictions forum. Why can't you stay away from alcohol? You think you don't have a problem. I can tell you, if someone said to me "You're going to jail if you don't stop eating chocolate", I would not even look at chocolate, much less eat it. The fact that you can't stay away from alcohol, despite the risk that you could go to jail for drinking it, means that you have a problem.

    If you'd like to talk about that, and ways to get help dealing with that, we're here. That sort of help we can offer. But, we can't tell you how to beat a court ordered test.

    Good luck.
    charstorm's Avatar
    charstorm Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Jun 13, 2013, 02:49 PM
    Ok... I only asked because I have seen countless other EtG questions very similar to mine posed to dr. Bill here on this site.

    He has always replied as have others.
    And the other posts I've read have been much worse than mine.

    Hes actually who I was hoping for a reply from. And I have read and studied the subject and also did not say that I intend to keep drinking as the fear and nervousness I now have is incredible I am asking about this occurrence not future ones.

    And simply wanted dr bills input. Thanks
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,890, Reputation: 5430
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    #9

    Jun 13, 2013, 02:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by charstorm View Post
    Ok...i only asked because i have seen countless other etg questions very similiar to mine posed to dr. Bill here on this site.
    DrBill no longer answers questions on this site. He is doing a major research project on addictions and has no time to be here.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #10

    Jun 13, 2013, 02:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by charstorm View Post
    Ok...i only asked because i have seen countless other etg questions very similiar to mine posed to dr. Bill here on this site.

    He has always replied as have others.
    And the other posts ive read have been much worse than mine.

    Hes actually who i was hoping for a reply from. And i have read and studied the subject and also did not say that i intend to keep drinking as the fear and nervousness i now have is incredible i am asking about this occurence not future ones.

    And simply wanted dr bills input. Thanks
    Dr. Bill hasn't posted on this site for a long time. We're not sure when, or even if, he'll be coming back to the site.

    Dr. Bill posted from a scientific point of view, and knows a lot about this sort of testing. He is the undisputed expert in this area. Unfortunately, he's no longer posting here, which leaves this forum without an expert.

    I can't tell you the science behind this testing. I can only tell you what is common knowledge, and even that is iffy. There are so many different views on this sort of testing. Some experts say that it takes around 80 hours for any alcohol to completely leave your system, others say 60 hours, some say 48. They mostly agree that it really does depend on your age, your weight, your metabolism, etc.

    There have been people on this site that had an ETG test and hadn't consumed alcohol in months, only to fail the test because they used mouthwash, or hand sanitizer. There have been other people that drank the night before and passed the test.

    So really, we can only offer a guess.

    I post on this forum not to help with the ETG tests, but to help with the addiction. I do think, based on what you wrote, that you could use some help in that area. If you would like some help with it, I'm here to offer that help.

    Good luck.

    In other words, it's pretty much a best guess, not an exact science. Based on what you posted, you'll likely pass the test
    charstorm's Avatar
    charstorm Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Jun 13, 2013, 03:39 PM
    In response to earlier posters comment about a " drunk"...
    While true based on the rational logical way of thinking I may have a problem as you put it...

    However... sipping two beers per day.. ( IF I Weren't ON PROBATION for arguments sake)

    Would hardly make me a drunk... since I have never once been innebriated since
    I was in my 20s and I'm in my 40s now. I never allow myself to get drunk because I do not enjoy nausea, or other safety issues such as being out of control. I like to take the edge off my day nothing more...

    But a drunk I am not in regard to where that term was used earlier.


    This whole week has been too full of worry and stress for me and I plan to stay clean for the last 90 days of my probation.

    Thanks to everyone for their input.. just every person is not the same,, everyone's minds do not see things the same...

    AM I WRONG TO NOT OBEY RULES OF PROBATION YES IM WRONG... does that make me a drunk.. no...
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #12

    Jun 13, 2013, 03:42 PM
    If you have a problem abstaining from alcohol through your probation... that is the clinical definition of a chemical dependence. Face it.

    Probation isn't forever.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #13

    Jun 13, 2013, 04:04 PM
    AM I WRONG TO NOT OBEY RULES OF PROBATION YES IM WRONG... does that make me a drunk.. no...
    Actually, it does.

    I know you want to deny it, and I even understand why. You're not ready to admit you have a problem, which is a problem in and of itself. Until you can accept that you have a problem, you can't get help for it.

    Think about this logically. You're on probation, one of the stipulations of your probation is that you abstain from alcohol. If you do not follow that stipulation, you will go to jail, no more probation. That's a pretty big deal, something you don't want to do. You yourself stated that you don't want to go back to jail, it's not a fun place.

    Most people would look at the consequences, and avoid the actions that would lead to those consequences. If part of your probation is to abstain from alcohol or risk going to jail, and you cannot abstains from alcohol, well, you have a problem.

    It doesn't matter that it's only 2 beers, and you continue to try to justify it by saying that it's only 2 beers a day, that you drink them slowly. But the consequences of those two beers is jail, and you need that beer enough to risk jail.

    You need to accept that this is an addiction. Until you can accept that, I fear that you'll continue this behavior, and end up back in jail. That's what you're risking by doing something you claim you don't need to do. If you don't need to do it, why are you doing it when the outcome from doing it is jail?

    Look at it this way. Your probation is a gun, fully loaded minus one bullet. I tell you that you're not allowed to have any alcohol, otherwise I pull the trigger. There's a good chance that when I pull the trigger, you'll die, there's only one bullet missing, the odds are against you. You claim you don't need the alcohol, that you don't have an addiction to it. You know about the gun, you know about the bullets, and despite the warning, you decide to drink every single day. You're taking the risk of me pulling the trigger, and you dying. Does that sound like something someone would do if they weren't addicted?
    charstorm's Avatar
    charstorm Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Jun 13, 2013, 04:08 PM
    Actually I've read all the material on dependence and also have discussed it with my counselor you have to meet 2-3 of the criteria to be declared dependent...

    So just simply not complying doesn't make me dependent.. IT SIMPLY MAKES ME WRONG...

    If I'm able to stop on the weeks I want to stop with no withdrawal symptoms and no mood swings.. . no illness... I'm moody and have been since I was little...


    My substance abuse counselor has even said I am not dependent or and alcoholic in the terms most go by and that had I have not had an issue at beginning of probation with admitting to drinking I would not be in treatment.. but he has told me to just behave and do as I'm told and then life goes back to normal.


    I AM NOT JUSTIFYING MY CHOICES.. I have said I'm wrong.. but I am not an alcoholic.. I am just someone who believes that if I'm over 21 and I'm not a junkie and what I'm being punished for is a victimless crime to begin with that the restrictions are insane.

    HOWEVER let me say this again I am done because I and my family don't need me a nervous mess with worry when we have things to do and achieve..

    So if you want to hear me say I Shouldn't BE DRINKING. . correct..
    But being as though I already go to a professional and NO he doesn't know I drank again BUT he knows how dumb I feel it is that I can't drink when drinking was never my problem and he knows that when I'm done probation I'm living my life as I always have.


    And he thinks I'm just fine... I JUST HAVE TO LEARN TO OBEY RULES..

    So from this day forth I shall...

    Thanks for your input
    charstorm's Avatar
    charstorm Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Jun 13, 2013, 04:15 PM
    No disrespect to you and your opinion but there are just as many if not more probationers violated for not showing up.. not paying fines. . hanging out in places they were told not to go.. and we all face the same consequences..

    All that really says about any of those people and me is that.. YES we did something wrong but IF its not a felony and it wasn't a crime that harmed a person then WE FEEL that its wrong for us as adults to be treated like were in Nazi land.


    Its hard for adults to be told what to do, where to go and when to go...


    Breaking a rule is breaking a rule regardless of what it is...

    Have you ever been on probation and especially have you ever been on it for something that certainly didn't warrant the level of punishment you received.

    They base the punishments on statistics but not all people convicted of the same crime think or behave the same or have the same circumstances..


    So that anger and resentment of the system is what makes any of us that break any of the rules break them usually.

    I have never been in trouble before in my life... and to me this is crazy what I'm being subjected to.


    That's the real issue.

    BUT AGAIN I DIGRESS.. IM DONE WITH DRINKING TILL SEPTEMBER.. THIS Isn't WORTH IT TO ME.. . thank you all




    Quote Originally Posted by Alty View Post
    Actually, it does.

    I know you want to deny it, and I even understand why. You're not ready to admit you have a problem, which is a problem in and of itself. Until you can accept that you have a problem, you can't get help for it.

    Think about this logically. You're on probation, one of the stipulations of your probation is that you abstain from alcohol. If you do not follow that stipulation, you will go to jail, no more probation. That's a pretty big deal, something you don't want to do. You yourself stated that you don't want to go back to jail, it's not a fun place.

    Most people would look at the consequences, and avoid the actions that would lead to those consequences. If part of your probation is to abstain from alcohol or risk going to jail, and you cannot abstains from alcohol, well, you have a problem.

    It doesn't matter that it's only 2 beers, and you continue to try to justify it by saying that it's only 2 beers a day, that you drink them slowly. But the consequences of those two beers is jail, and you need that beer enough to risk jail.

    You need to accept that this is an addiction. Until you can accept that, I fear that you'll continue this behavior, and end up back in jail. That's what you're risking by doing something you claim you don't need to do. If you don't need to do it, why are you doing it when the outcome from doing it is jail?

    Look at it this way. Your probation is a gun, fully loaded minus one bullet. I tell you that you're not allowed to have any alcohol, otherwise I pull the trigger. There's a good chance that when I pull the trigger, you'll die, there's only one bullet missing, the odds are against you. You claim you don't need the alcohol, that you don't have an addiction to it. You know about the gun, you know about the bullets, and despite the warning, you decide to drink every single day. You're taking the risk of me pulling the trigger, and you dying. Does that sound like something someone would do if they weren't addicted?
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #16

    Jun 13, 2013, 04:24 PM
    You are in violation if you aren't 100% in compliance with the terms of you probation. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. ANY violation is grounds to REVOKE the probation and reinstate the FULL penalty they should have given you in the first place.


    If you were the authority you think you are on the topic... first off... why are you here asking if you have all he answers... and if YOU are the only one correct... why are you worried at all... just call your PO and tell them you know more than they do too.

    You managed to convince everyone here you really are a drunk because you waste so much time trying to justify NOT avoiding alcohol...


    You know... you've been in trouble... because you chose to break the law... I on the other hand have managed to make it 52 years without getting arrested much less convicted of a crime.

    So... who has more credibility?
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #17

    Jun 13, 2013, 04:32 PM
    ]actually I've read all the material on dependence and also have discussed it with my counselor you have to meet 2-3 of the criteria to be declared dependent...
    Is this a court appointed counselor? Is she/he aware that you drink every day?

    So just simply not complying doesn't make me dependent.. IT SIMPLY MAKES ME WRONG...
    Not when you look at the circumstances. When you look at your probation, and what it entails, and your actions despite your probation, that could land you back in jail, it reeks of dependency.


    My substance abuse counselor has even said I am not dependent or and alcoholic in the terms most go by and that had I have not had an issue at beginning of probation with admitting to drinking I would not be in treatment.. but he has told me to just behave and do as I'm told and then life goes back to normal.
    But you're not doing what you're told, you are drinking very day. Obviously the court is not aware that you're drinking every day, only stopping when you know there will be an ETG test, otherwise you'd be in jail right now for violation of probation.

    I AM NOT JUSTIFYING MY CHOICES.. I have said I'm wrong.. but I am not an alcoholic.. I am just someone who believes that if I'm over 21 and I'm not a junkie and what I'm being punished for is a victimless crime to begin with that the restrictions are insane.
    You are justifying your choices. It doesn't matter that you're over 21, and not a junkie. Part of your probation is not drinking, yet you do so on a daily basis. You may think the restrictions are insane, but that's part of your probation. By drinking daily, you're putting yourself at risk of going back to jail, yet you do it anyway. That's the act of someone that can't stop, someone that is addicted.

    HOWEVER let me say this again I am done because I and my family don't need me a nervous mess with worry when we have things to do and achieve..
    I wish you luck with that. This worry was there from the beginning, when you first got probation, yet you weren't able to stop drinking to avoid jail. I do hope you manage to achieve your goals.

    so if you want to hear me say I Shouldn't BE DRINKING. . correct..
    But being as though I already go to a professional and NO he doesn't know I drank again BUT he knows how dumb I feel it is that I can't drink when drinking was never my problem and he knows that when I'm done probation I'm living my life as I always have.
    So the counselor doesn't know that you drink every day. That would make his diagnosis of you as not an alcoholic, invalid.

    and he thinks I'm just fine... I JUST HAVE TO LEARN TO OBEY RULES..
    He thinks you're fine because you're not telling him the truth. He's not aware that you drink on a daily basis, otherwise you'd be in jail right now. You haven't been honest with him, therefore any diagnosis he makes, is not valid.

    so from this day forth I shall...

    Thanks for your input.
    Good luck. When you're ready for help, we'll be here to offer it. Your counselor would be able to help a lot more if you were honest with him.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #18

    Jun 13, 2013, 04:36 PM
    You know... you've been in trouble... because you chose to break the law... I on the other hand have managed to make it 52 years without getting arrested much less convicted of a crime.
    Ditto Smoothy, the only difference is the amount of years, in my case 42, since I'm not yet 52 years old, got 10 years before I hit that mark. :)

    I'm only a year younger than the OP.
    mogrann's Avatar
    mogrann Posts: 860, Reputation: 193
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    #19

    Jun 13, 2013, 06:59 PM
    You know I hope that karma gets these people who try to beat the system and end up hurting people when they are drunk. Would love to have the power to know these peoples PO's and report them. Unfortunately I don't.

    If you have no problem with alcohol you will not have issues with testings. It is that plain and simple. People with no issues can go without drinking for x amount of time as it is not something they feel like they must do

    Maybe I am wrong but it is pretty simple you follow the rules when you are on probation no exceptions then when you are off probation you can drink yourself into a stupor. Just don't go out and hurt innocents.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #20

    Jun 13, 2013, 07:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by josh7301 View Post
    I already seen that you reported me like a child would do. Why don't you read what I do for a living and then tell me my opinion means nothing. Cranial Flatulence im impressed you know what that means. Like I said before no one asked for your drunk story so don't tell it if your not asked.
    I don't recall anyone asking you for your story, yet you felt free to share it, then berate others for doing the same.

    Bottom line, the OP admitted to being on probation, and admitted that not drinking is part of that probation, then also admitted that he/she drinks daily. That's a problem, like it or not.

    Of course another alcoholic who isn't ready to admit they have a problem, will more than willingly jump in to defend someone in the same boat they're in. Birds of a feather flock together. Maybe the two of you will share a jail cell, then you can both wax poetic about the evil people on AMHD that tried to help you see your addiction for what it is.

    Time to close the thread, these two obviously don't want help. Maybe when they die of alcoholism, or end up killing someone, they'll finally see the light. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

    Good bye, and good luck.

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