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ninahhhdreams · May 29, 2007, 07:10 AM

Even I thank you for your valuable advise. Totally applicable to my situation. People play games with your heart once they know they can get to you. However rude, it was definitely an awakening.

clarityseeker · May 30, 2007, 02:08 PM

So after 2 weeks of NC she still hasn't tried to contact me or the mutual friend. I wouldn't reply anyway, but I have to admit being really puzzled at why this is the case. Any theories?

The main problem is getting my stuff back - there's some stuff I left there that I value and would really like back. How long should I give her to send it back before reminding her? I don't want to break NC, but at some point I guess I have to assume she forgot and decide whether I should just let the stuff go. Anyone faced this particular dilemma before or have advice on how to handle it?

talaniman · May 30, 2007, 02:45 PM

You can ask for it back and keep it brief.

chuff · May 30, 2007, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by clarityseeker

So after 2 weeks of NC she still hasn't tried to contact me or the mutual friend. I wouldn't reply anyway, but I have to admit being really puzzled at why this is the case. Any theories?

The main problem is getting my stuff back - there's some stuff I left there that I value and would really like back. How long should I give her to send it back before reminding her? I don't want to break NC, but at some point I guess I have to assume she forgot and decide whether I should just let the stuff go. Anyone faced this particular dilemma before or have advice on how to handle it?

I want you to reread this entire thread in about 6 months. It will be a great learning tool for you and I think you'll see things so much clearer. First of all, she didn't forget to return your stuff. She's holding it for the collateral. She knows if she has it, you have to contact her. It's all part of her game.

You could go two ways on this, and I'm not even sure about the second one. I'll let you and some others be the judge. The first one is just call her and say, "hey I was so busy this past weekend, when I was in town I forgot to set up a time with you to get my stuff." By saying it like that, it presupposes that the only real reason you wanted to meet with her was to get your stuff and also that you were the one that forgot about her. By not bringing up what your mutual friend said, it's actually going to make her wonder if you even no about the other guy.

The second way could be to tell her to give the stuff to your father at work. I only use this as a suggestion because she might hesitate sending you the stuff because she enjoys emotionally torturing you. But my guess is she doesn't want to be seen as a b!tch around work so she might be compelled to bring you stuff to you dad before he starts telling people that she won't turn over you stuff. I'm a little iffy on that one myself, because I don't like the idea of bringing other people into you issues but in this situation it might work.

clarityseeker · Jun 1, 2007, 09:11 AM

Thanks for the advice Tal and Chuff. I don't think my father would want to get involved with taking the stuff back, but good idea anyway. I really don't want to call her either, because hearing her voice might put me back to square one. I don't even want to email her, because it gives her an opportunity to engage that could throw me off as well. I've been feeling a bit better lately and, quite frankly, I'm a bit scared that engaging in any way will ruin my progress. I've decided to find a middle ground on your advice here - I'll give it a month from today for her to do it on my own, at which point I'll be feeling better than today. Then, if she still hasn't sent it, I'll just send a bare-essentials email with mailing address and a one-sentence request to send it back etc. Anyway, thanks for helping me think through this.

talaniman · Jun 1, 2007, 04:11 PM

I've decided to find a middle ground on your advice here - I'll give it a month from today for her to do it on my own,

A good decision, in my opinion.

clarityseeker · Jun 4, 2007, 10:17 AM

Thanks for the further advice. There are two more things I'm struggling with. The first is that I bought over 240 dollars worth of non-refundable tickets for her birthday weekend in late June, but I don't want to haggle over how to split it up so will probably eat the cost. Actually, that isn't the main dilemma. The main dilemma is I have three options on how to tie up the loose ends, and I've realized I don't want to wait a month to do it. Hoping for some feedback on what you think is the best option and why.

Option 1: Send no "give me my stuff back" email and just accept that I won't get it back. It's not the end of the world, I've realized, and I could just stay NC forever.

Option 2: Send this email:

"Still haven't received my stuff back. Please send it like you said you would. Thanks in advance.

(mailing address)

Option 3: Send the Option 2 email but with this attached at the end -

"I will eat the cost of the 240 dollars in non-refundable tickets that you gave me the go-ahead to buy, because I simply have no desire to figure out how to split it up with you.

You have shown yourself to be a deceitful coward - congratulations. Can't believe you let (our mutual friend) do your dirty work for you."

I'm confused because I want to get this woman out of my life, but I also want her to have to think about what she's done. If I send out the "Option 3" email, it gives her material to respond to, which might lead to escalation and more frustration. But if I send the "Option 2" email, it's cool and collected but it allows her the luxury of not having to think that she did anything wrong. Option 1 is also attractive because it's me saying to myself that there's nothing more to think about. Perhaps I sound petty, but isn't there something to be said for briefly saying to someone exactly what they did wrong in a firm and non-needy way, just so you've said what you think they deserve to hear? Any thoughts on this "closure issue" would be appreciated.

clarityseeker · Jun 4, 2007, 10:20 AM

And I should clarify about the tickets - I bought them when we were still together - mentioned them as a possibility because she didn't really like surprises - then checked with her before buying them whether she wanted to go and she said "of course." Anyway, will still probably eat the cost.

talaniman · Jun 4, 2007, 10:37 AM

Option#4. Keep the tickets, and party with your friends, or send them to her and attach a note;
Have fun and do whatever with my stuff I don't need IT.
Or if you keep the tickets which I would, and have a grand time.

I want to get this woman out of my life,

Realise she is already out of your life, but your trying to get her back through the back door, by bringing up your stuff, and the tickets to get her to react. Understandable, but a dumb idea since, you should be moving on. Forget trying to make her feel what you do, or what you want her to feel. Drop the whole idea, Keep the no contact and just let her wonder. No notes, no emails, no nothing. Find your closure in getting on with your own life.

clarityseeker · Jun 4, 2007, 10:45 AM

Well Tal, I wish it would let me spread the rep with you. I always value your advice.

I can't use the tickets myself, because they're in her town, not mine, and can't afford the airfare. Also, they're for things she would enjoy, because they were for her birthday. But good "Option #4" if circumstances were right. I truly don't want her back after what she's done, not in denial here. When I said "I want this woman out of my life" I was trying to make the point that I want the lingering remnants of her out of my life so I have nothing more to think about, but I hear what you're saying about deep down wanting her to feel bad about what she's done. It's a very powerful urge. And perhaps it's petty, but it does deeply bother me that people can act this way without being called on it. But you're right, taking the high road and letting her wonder as you advise will at least block her out for good.

Cvtldy54 · Jun 4, 2007, 01:13 PM

If she contacted you and said that she wants to see you (and you want things to work out with her) then you should respond to her and tell her simply, "Yes, I will see you." In love, there are no rules, or right or wrong answers. What does your heart tell you to do? If it says heck yes, see her, then that is what you should do. Do not think it is going to make you look weak either, it's not like you're falling down at her door, you are simply responding to her request. Life's too short to spend it in limbo and always wondering "what if."

clarityseeker · Jun 4, 2007, 01:20 PM

Thanks for the reply Cvtldy54. You'll have to read the rest of the thread, as circumstances changed quite a bit.

And still open to people's opinions on the "getting stuff back" and what's the best way to handle it, based on the options I came up with earlier today.

ramblinguy · Jun 4, 2007, 03:38 PM

I agree with Chuff and Jiser. Let her miss you. Don't chase. I am currently going through a breakup, break? We don't fight or bicker. Actually we are great together. Our problem is an age difference. I'm the older one. We're giving each other space so we can both figure out what we want and what is realistic for us. It's not easy, but I don't think putting pressure on her will work for us or you. Good luck.

clarityseeker · Jun 13, 2007, 01:44 PM

Hey all,

Well, here I am after 1 month of absolutely no contact trying to give occasional advice in other threads based on my own experience, and still struggling myself.

I wonder if anyone's gone through what I'm starting to go through right now. The anger's still there but subsiding a little, and I'm starting to find myself trying to put myself in her shoes to figure out why she would act this way. And I'm not trying to justify what she did, just make some sense of it, so I'm sort of playing the devil's advocate, which is probably not healthy but I can't help myself. You have to be familiar with my story to know what I'm talking about here, but basically I think:

OK, she was honest in asking for a break at the outset, and didn't guarantee me she wouldn't see anyone else. And then I sent her her stuff a week later and told her "I understand this is over, don't want the dragged-out process, have a nice life" basically. In other words, I chose to characterize the "break" as permanent. She then reads that and says "Oh, OK, he can't handle a break and isn't respecting my wishes, so I'll write him back to tell him I can send him his stuff if he wants and I'm still open to seeing him when he comes in if he changes his mind." I then say "No, we shouldn't see each other anymore, send me my stuff." She then responds "Fine, I will send you your stuff ASAP, and if you change your mind, we can still meet up." I don't respond for a week, she then says she misses me and suggests coffee. She says "OK, you say when" and then tries to clarify when I don't respond. I then give her a vague reply that we can meet sometime that weekend I'm in. I then don't follow up to set up a time, and don't congratulate her on her hireback, etc etc. And nothing since then.

I'm not trying to beat myself up here, because I know she still could have totally been being dishonest about there being someone else in the picture to begin with. And also the fact that she suggested coffee and said she missed me a couple hours before she told the mutual friend that the guy she was seeing was on his way over and not to tell me. And then never followed up. But she probably thinks that technically, on paper, whatever, she didn't do anything wrong, and that I'd said it was over when I sent her her stuff and made it permanent, and she was just going along with the program. But then again she didn't fight for it (the relationship) or even communicated that she didn't want the break to be permanent. As you can tell, all my thoughts are conflicted and jumbled here. As pathetic as it may sound, I still do miss her a lot, and maybe I'm just trying to think outside my own perspective to see if her angle makes any sense. And if I blew off her consistent message that we could meet up if my mind changed. And if she just saw someone else thinking that it was my fault to lay it down as a permanent breakup. Not that it necessarily matters, or that she was justified thinking these things. I just wonder if she was thinking from the beginning that it was just a break and then I set things in motion for it to be permanent. And of course the only way I could find this out is to talk to her, but I feel like I obviously can't do that because (1) I could be totally wrong and she could just reject me and confirm everything I thought to begin with and (2) part of me is still angry that she wouldn't put in more effort to prevent it from being permanent if she truly cared.

I haven't got a thing done at work all day, and I can't seem to work this out in my own head, and it won't be any better tomorrow, so I thought I'd see if anyone had any thoughts for me to screw my head back on here. Is it still best to remain no contact? (I'm a bit ashamed to be asking this question considering the advice I've been given, but maybe I'm like everyone else in thinking my own situation is somehow different).

Anyway, thanks.

Sdjosh · Jun 13, 2007, 02:42 PM

We all have those nagging suspicions in the back of our heads. Those "what if's" that keep us from moving on... from healing.

You can either move on and understand that you now have the opportunity to figure something's out for yourself. Get back to being just you.

Or...

You can sit there and wonder about what could have been... about the past. Things you can't change. While the future passes you by.

Or...

If these questions really bother you that much... ask. Get it out. Ask her why, how, what, when, and where. It may be her chance to verbally abuse you, toy with your emotions, derail the progress you have made, or... lay your fears to rest.

Its up to you how you will approach it. I know that it can't be an easy decision. Your emotions are all over the place. But "YOU" are what is important now. Your health and wellbeing. Do what is best for you and your future.

talaniman · Jun 13, 2007, 04:01 PM

As Sd, pointed out so very well, you are caught in the what if's... and this will get you stuck, as you put so much emphasis on what you think her feelings are, you get defocused on what your feeling are and what to do about it. You are not alone, that's just that last vestige of false hope creepy into your mind. Reject these thoughts, as not logical to what your goals are, and don't be stuck on what if's, how coulds, or anything that does not promote how YOU feel. The minute you mention her name, your going the wrong way.

chuff · Jun 13, 2007, 07:17 PM

Keep no contact.

Make a list of things you need to do in the short term only. Then do them.

Do physical exercise daily.

clarityseeker · Jun 14, 2007, 10:03 AM

Thanks again for the thoughts. I guess what was going through my head was the question: "How bad has she treated me here?" Which I guess is a key part of letting go. Because it's a lot harder to let go of someone who has treated you fairly through the breakup. But going back through it in my head I realize that I shouldn't be giving her the benefit of the doubt - in the big picture, she dumped me and didn't want to make the effort to hold on and work things out. She would claim that she "gave me enough chances", but that was all part of her game of subtle provocation, where I would end up apologizing and letting her be in the position of "giving me another chance" and forgiving me. Which I guess is a way for those types of people to gain emotional control without it being obvious. Thanks tal and Sdjosh for reminding me to focus on how I feel instead of her, and to Chuff for reinforcing the proper course of action.

clarityseeker · Jun 18, 2007, 02:30 PM

Hey all, I could really use some advice right now because I'm a bit of a mess. My stuff came in the mail today with a postcard that simply said:

"Hey - I tried to get a card, but all sold out of blanks. Nothing else seemed appropriate, so I just went for the most neutral of all. Anyhow, I am really sorry it took me so long to send your stuff. I hope you are doing all right - I sense small talk not likely to be well received. Please don't misinterpret this short message as not caring at all. All other/any contact remains up to you. Best, ____"

I just don't know what to do. Maybe someone with a clear head can help decode this. Or maybe it's not worth it. Of course, she put the onus on me to contact her. Her birthday is this weekend. Again, I don't know what to do. Please help me out here.

talaniman · Jun 18, 2007, 02:39 PM

All other/any contact remains up to you. Best, ____"

It called putting the ball in your court, so she isn't going to call, but as you say her birthday is coming up. Send that birthday card, and keep no contact until you get clear headed. Do you see that it doesn't take a lot of contact to be confused??? Get healthy.