[smoothy]

Civilian casulties are hight because Hamas launches rockets from Schools, apartments and Hospitals... and the brain damaged troglodytes are too dumb to leave when Israel calls them telling them to get out now while you can. Before they send in the anti-hamas devices.

[tomder55]

Tal ,ok so then it's ok for Hamas to store missiles in a school . Glad you made that clear. And what does that tell you about where the UN sympathies lie ?

you have no idea about what is going on . Do you know that the Israelis make cell calls to the people in the areas they are going to hit ,warning them before the attack ? Then after they call ,they make a low level "tap" on the building ,again with the purpose of warning the people in a building that it will be hit .
The difference in civilian casualties is basically this ....the Israelis use rockets to protect their civilians ;Hamas use their civilians as human shields to protect their rockets.
The Israelis sent tons of cement into Gaza to help them build infrastructure . They used it to create a maze of tunnels under their population to wage war on Israel.

[talaniman]

Lets be clear on a few points Tom, Hamas IS the enemy, gotcha, most of the Palestinians are not members of Hamas. The biggest factor for me is the Israeli's will never have peace and security no matter how many missiles they launch, or civilians get killed. Their way has not worked despite the siege on Gaza they have maintained for how many DECADES?

[talaniman]

Hamas leader calls for humanitarian truce in Gaza

They did this once before so likely they will do it again. Oh well, it's something.

[paraclete]

Tom, I just noticed you proposed a demilitarised Gaza, Gaza has no formal military force it has militants and one suspects they are not under the control of anyone. To demilitarise Gaza everyone of those people would need to be captured, disarmed, removed and imprisoned and still you wouldn't have solved the problem. The lives of the Gazan have to be normalised so they can live like anyoneelse, not restricted as to what they can import except for arms. There, in fact, needs to be a three state solution because a divided Palistinian nation is never going to work, I cannot see Israel providing unfetted access between the two areas and neither should they be expected to. All those displaced Palistinians need to be removed from Gaza so that Gaza exists for its original population but as one might expect they would not be welcome in Israel where they came from and they would not be welcome in the West Bank. Once it might have been different but not now.


Tom your people woudl not be willing to give up their arms and for the same reasons nor would the Palistinians, how could you make a proposal you wouldn't enter into yourself

[tomder55]

Tal ,the last time there was a "humanitarian truce " ;Hamas violated it AND massacred Palestinian inhabitants of Gaza they suspected of collaboration. They then blamed the massacre on the Israelis .

Clete "my people " do not have a charter that calls for the destruction of a neighbor state and the extermination of it's population. My solution is that Gaza was once Egyptian territory ,and so it should return to Egyptian control. War against terrorists is no different than war against pirates . Those actors should have no quarter .

Their way has not worked despite the siege on Gaza they have maintained for how many DECADES?

Again a distortion of history . The Israelis WITHDREW from Gaza and they got a barrage of rockets as a reward .

[paraclete]

The Israeli's withdrew from Gaza because it was a no win situation, they withdrew their settlements, a dangerous precident. You know as well as I do Tom the Egyptians don't want Gaza back, to administer it might lead to another war with Israel. The Israeli's don't want gaza back. The Egyptians refused to take it back, a sort of you won it, you've got it.

You can wage a war against terrorists but what is the point when for every one you kill, you kill ten or more civilians including kids. Sadly it would seem occupation and pacification is the only way, making the hunt for terrorists a police not military action. Did you ever see the film the Seige, somewhat prophetic of this situation in a way. The point was made that using the military to hunt terrorists in a civilian population is a bad idea, using a hammer to crack an egg

[tomder55]

The Israeli's withdrew from Gaza because it was a no win situation

No ,they withdrew on one of those 'land for peace' deals. They left behind an economic infrastructure that the Palestinians trashed ;and they continued to provide cement and building supplies that Hamas used to build tunnels. They still provide hospital care for Gazans who get caught in the crossfire.

What this is proving is that 'land for peace ' is a failed negotiation position. But still the idiot we call Sec State is going around the world saying "pre 1967 boundries " .

[paraclete]

No ,they withdrew on one of those 'land for peace' deals. They left behind an economic infrastructure that the Palestinians trashed ;and they continued to provide cement and building supplies that Hamas used to build tunnels. They still provide hospital care for Gazans who get caught in the crossfire.

What this is proving is that 'land for peace ' is a failed negotiation position. But still the idiot we call Sec State is going around the world saying "pre 1967 boundries " .

I told you before Tom Kerry is just counting coup to bolster his chances of nomination. He doesn't care about the integrity of Israel or the Palestinians. Why america is trying to broker a peace deal is a complete mystery. It would be better if other parties were involved, Hamas might listen. The international community is hand wringing about the fate of those "innocent" civilians who would celebrate is another 9/11 happened. The world had to reduce Germany and Japan to rubble and sadly Gaza must suffer the same fate before attitudes change. Forget the past successes, you can be assured the Palestinians are only focused on the past losses and Kerry has bought the package, you and I both know an oubreak of violence was anticipated when Netanyahoo took over