[horriblemom]

Hi,

I divorced my kids' dad a few years ago, and he convinced both kids (12 and 15 at the time and now 15 and 18) to live with him. I did not have a good lawyer, so he got the house, the kids, child support, I pay insurance etc. My son has cursed me and screamed at me for leaving his dad since the night I left and refuses to visit me although I have a court order that says he must. My daughter would not visit either at first, and then I made her. She would come over some, but would not come over for more than a few days at a time. Dad always planned a vacation on my time in the summer and told her to chose, and she ALWAYS picks him. He is very manipulative. Anyway, my 15 year old (almost 16) daughter has not visited me in 6 months because I left her dad (that is the reason she gives me). She says if I loved her, I would have stayed with her dad like she wanted.

I was the one who took her to the doctor and bought her clothes etc even though I paid child support. My attorney advised me to send at least the medical bill for a biopsy my daughter had done, so I did send it and she has not visited since. Her dad did not pay so he is in contempt of court. He also says the kids do not have to visit and that all he is required to do is have them available when I come to pick them up, and whatever happens from there is between them and me. Well, my daughter has informed me and a sheriff deputy that I do not have full custody of her and cannot tell her what to do etc. Of course, the deputy corrected her and made her get in the truck. Now dad says he is getting married to a woman who lives in a town 300 miles from here, which is a prison town. There are 10 or so prisons in the town and a lot of riff-raff in the schools (lots of rape, shootings etc). He is saying he wants me to relinquish my rights to my daughter so he can move, but still wants me to pay for her insurance etc and wants me to pay him child support until he is ready financially to give it up. He does say this is not about money.

I can either sign the papers, which will stop the child support as I have NO rights anyway, or I can try taking him back to court. They say the judge is going to do whatever the child wants in this county, and she will surely say she wants to be with daddy. Should I sign the papers or go to court and ask for full custody? I have recordings of him telling me it is not his business if she comes to visit, that it is up to her etc. I have proof I sent the medical bills too. I don't want to just sign her over and let him move off with her, but she says she doesn't want to see me because I won't live with him. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[ANB428]

I am not sure if you will be able to get custody of your daughter or not, but my advice to you is NOT to sign over your rights to your daughter because the father wants you to. I would try to go back to court and fight for my child if I were in your situation. I don't know about the legalities, I just wanted to put my two cents in and give you my advice. Good luck with everything and I hope that someone can come along and give you some legal advice.

[horriblemom]

I am leaning toward fighting in court since he has broken basically everything in the decree and is in contempt of court all over the place. My daughter has no rules at his house. She comes and goes as she pleases with who she pleases at 15. I don't allow that behavior. I also require my kids to be respectful and hard workers. She was a good girl though. I bought her an expensive horse and took her to all kinds of events. I bought her clothes and anything she needed. I just don't understand how a girl could turn on her mom the way she has. She actually told me that she wishes I would die. Her dad said that to me some time back, but now he denies ever saying it. I really hope this is coming from him and truly not how she feels.

[Holly23]

Ithink your daughter can gecide who she wants to live with oce she turns 16, until then the court will decide what's best and since you practically gave your children away I agree they should stay with there father.They obviously don't want to live with you.Thats your own fault.Your screen name suits you perfectly...

[horriblemom]

Holly23, the kids decide when they are 12. I hope you never have to live with a man that won't work, cheats, addicted to porn and gambling.

He took their birthday money to gamble with. I always had to work multiple jobs to support my kids because their father always wanted new trucks, boats... everything for himself. My daughter has gained 100 lbs since deciding to live with him. Sounds like it is good for her, huh?

[susangpyp]

Why would you sign away rights to your children?

In most states a non-custodial parent must sign to allow a custodial parent to move away unless the custodial parent has full physical and legal custody and even then a court might say you can't do it.

I'd say go to court and fight and ask for a guardian ad litem for your kids and a home visit from the court.

[Holly23]

No a good mom wouldn't give up her gids no matter how extreme the circumstances are.. Only very few exceptions.. this is not one of them... Who says she wouldn't of gained that weight if she was still living with you.. yeah... Key words there that you said "Since deciding".She decided.And from where Im from its 16 excuse me.And I doubt that all that's true about your husband there's no way a court would give custody of two children to someone like that, who couldn't support them.

[ANB428]

No a good mom wouldnt give up her gids no matter how extreme the circumstances are..Only very few exceptions..this is not one of them...Who says she wouldnt of gained that weight if she was still livin with you..yeah...Key words there that you said "Since deciding".She decided.And from where Im from its 16 excuse me.And I doubt that all thats true about your husband theres no way a court would give custody of two children to someone like that, who couldnt support them.

Holly23 you don't know anything about this woman or her situation, so you have no right to say that her screen name fits her. It is none of your business why she gave her kids up at the time. You don't know what the circumstances were. I would never give my daughter to her father, but I never went through a really nasty divorce, so you can't make those comments without knowing the history of the situation.

[Holly23]

And either can you.Maybe she's not the victim, which I suspect,maybe he is.Her kids don't want to live with her! and she's trying to force them?Would you want your daughter to be happy?yes of course.Shes obviously only thinking of herself.

[horriblemom]

Holly23, the court in this small town gives the kids to whoever the kids say they want to live with. I did not GIVE UP my kids! He took them from me by manipulating them into signing affidavits that they wanted to live with him. My lawyer stood there and did not say a word. He was terrible. She would not have gained the weight with me because I spent lots of time with her and we rode horses etc constantly and she played basketball and all kinds of sports. She does not do anything at all now. He is gone all the time and she is lonely and bored.

SusanGPYP, I am not giving up custody, I am saying he wants me to give up custody. He has made my son so mad at me that he did not visit at all for 3 years, and now he is grown. My daughter still lives with him, and the moment I sent him some medical bills to pay half of (he never takes her to the doctor so I had to take her to try to get her some help) then he never let her visit again, and he did not pay half the medical like the decree ordered.

You see, he is getting married to someone 300 miles away, and decree says he has to bring her back each week. He encourages her to fight me when I come to get her every week for my visit and has not followed through with anything else in the decree, so I will never see my daughter again once he moves. However, I do have to continue to pay child support and insurance etc... but he won't let me see my baby. My daughter and I were best buddies... very close. He wants me to give up rights but keep paying for insurance so he doesn't have to bring her back. My point is this... I am not signing over rights, but he is taking her away and I want to fight him on it because he doesn't follow rules at all.

[ANB428]

horriblemom, when I was your daughter's age, I absolutely hated my mom too and I didn't have a father or a brother who sat there and downed on my mom to me and told me bad things about my mom. We just didn't get along. So, I understand the pain that you are going through dealing with all of this. Maybe you should suggest in court that you and your daughter should have to go to counseling together. You need to have your daughter talk to a counselor or someone to see why she dislikes you so much. I know that I have turned my brother again my step dad by talking bad about him, so if your ex and your son are constantly bad mouthing you to your daughter, then I can see why your daughter treats you the way that she is. I am not sure of the whole reason why you don't have custody of them, but if I were 15 and I could either live with my mom who had rules or my father who let me do whatever I wanted, then I would deffinantly go live with my father rather than my mother. I wouldn't give up quite yet, you are still her mother. Have you gotten a lawyer for all of this? That might be wise of you to obtain a lawyer and present your case to them and go from there.

[ANB428]

And either can you.Maybe shes not the victim, which I suspect,maybe he is.Her kids dont want to live with her!!and shes trying to force them?Would you want your daughter to be happy?yes of course.Shes obviously only thinking of herself.

Well, obviously you are wrong because we got more of the story and it sounds like she is the victim. I wouldn't want to live with my mom either if she had rules at her house that I would have to follow. She wants to live with her dad because she can go do whatever she wants whenever she wants. If I was given that choice at 15 then I would be living with my father too. She isn't thinking about herself, she is thinking about her daughter and her daughter's future. How do you figure that it is okay for a 15 year old to go out and do whatever they please whenever they please is a good decision? Oh yea, it is a great decision, lets let my 15 year old daughter go out until midnight running around with 20 year old men getting into trouble and doing drugs. Sounds like a GREAT idea! (SARCASIM) You obviously aren't a parent or a very good one at that, if you think that it is okay for a 15 year old to go do whatever they want. I was never happy as a teenager because my mom never let me do whatever I wanted to do, I had RULES to follow. So, my mother should have allowed me to do whatever I wanted to do so I could be happy? When you are a parent you look out for your child's best interest, whether it makes them happy or not.

[horriblemom]

Actually, I took my daughter to counseling every week for months, and she indicated that she had a perfect family and I left her dad and that is why she resents me. I covered all this stuff up for her dad. He sat in the bedroom with his door closed (so he could get on the internet and look at "things") while I worked and hauled the kids around and did EVERYTHING. He had nothing to do with the kids, so they never got any attention from him. If I suggested fishing, it was too hot, if I suggested swimming, he didn't like crowds. He had no interest. I took my daughter with me when I left, and the first time I sent her over for visitation they played cards and he paid lots of attention to her. I don't want her to have a bad relationship with her dad, I just want to be able to spend time with my daughter too. She indicated she wanted to live with him, so I was forced to accept it because she was 13 (and they can decide at 12). Now he is moving her away. He has a sort of narcissist personlity where he does whatever he can to hurt me. He knows that these kids were my whole world. The day he told me the kids signed papers saying they wanted to live with him, he told me "she signed the papers while she was still wet from the snowball fight ya'll just had".

[ScottGem]

In most states a non-custodial parent must sign to allow a custodial parent to move away unless the custodial parent has full physical and legal custody and even then a court might say you can't do it.

Can you back that up? In my experience where there is a visitation schedule in place that would be disrupted by the move, the NCP can block the move.

[horriblemom]

Do you think they can block the move even if she is refusing to see me? There is a visitation schedule in place, but he tells her it is optional so she will not go, no matter how strong I get about telling her to get in the car.

[susangpyp]

Can you back that up? In my experience where there is a visitation schedule in place that would be disrupted by the move, the NCP can block the move.

I think that's what I said. I have heard of courts allowing a parent who has full legal and physical custody to move (usually job related) but often they will say you still can't do it. When the NCP has joint legal custody they must sign.

[ScottGem]

First, I've moved this to the legal forum because your questions are about rights and legal actions, not really about parenting skills or issues.

Second, No state in the US allows a child to decide which parent they will live with in a custody battle. That decision is made by a judge and its supposed to be based on the best interests of the child. Some states do have guidelines on how much weight to put on the child's preference, but the decision is the judge's not the child.

Third, the father is correct that he can't force the children to go with you. But that he does have to make them available for your scheduled visitation. Forcing the kids to go with you, however, is generally counterproductive.

Fourth, in most cases the NCP can block a move if it interferes with a court ordered visitation. However, considering what you have told us of the court's predelictions, they would, likely grant the move and modify the visitation.

Unfortunately, I don't have good news for you. Your 18 yr old is an adult now and can do what he wants. Your 16 yr old is still subject to the visitation order, but if you force her to be with you, it will probnably make things worse.

It is unlikley that you can sign your rights over even if you wanted to. Courts are very reluctant to grant a Termination of Parental Rights and generally will only do so to clear the way for an adoption. I would definitely not volunteer to sign away your rights.

If you choose to fight, you will need a good lawyer who knows the local court. By the way, you should pursue any responsibilities he has under the divorce agreement. If he is supposed to pay a bill and didn't, by all means go to court and ask that he be cited for contempt and forced to reimburse you.

The only other piece of advice I can give you is not really from a legal standpoint. That advice is to let go. I would write letters to your son and daughter. Explain to them that you love them very much, too much to force them to do something they don't want to do. Tell them that, though it hurts you to be apart from them, you won't force them to visit. That you will continue to provide support according to the court order. That you only hope that some day they will understand why you had to leave their father and that they can forgive you and allow you to be their mother again.

I understand how hard this will be, but I think its your best chance of getting them back someday.

[ScottGem]

I think that's what I said. I have heard of courts allowing a parent who has full legal and physical custody to move (usually job related) but often they will say you still can't do it. When the NCP has joint legal custody they must sign.

Sorry, in rereading I see I did misunderstand what you said.

[susangpyp]

Do you think they can block the move even if she is refusing to see me? There is a visitation schedule in place, but he tells her it is optional so she will not go, no matter how strong I get about telling her to get in the car.

Yes they can block it.

[horriblemom]

Looks like my ex gets it all, again. I don't think anyone understands that I will not get to see them ever again. Story of my life... don't fight, do the right thing and things will come around. Nothing has come around for me.