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Freethinka · Jul 22, 2007, 12:35 AM

Would you like to (know) there is a God? Or, would you like to (believe) there is a god? :confused:

Clough · Jul 22, 2007, 12:48 AM

To set up the parameters for your next discussion, it would help to know as to which question you would like answered first. You have just asked three in a row.

Also, just to be fair, it would help to know what you think are the answers first. If you don't have answers, then that is okay also. But, please be honest if the fact is that you don't have the answers within yourself already.

Freethinka · Jul 22, 2007, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Clough

To set up the parameters for your next discussion, it would help to know as to which question you would like answered first. You have just asked three in a row.

Also, just to be fair, it would help to know what you think are the answers first. If you don't have answers, then that is okay also. But, please be honest if the fact is that you don't have the answers within yourself already.

I would like my questions to be answered, in any sequence you choose, kiddie tests include more than (3) questions!. not being rude or anything, but I am totally surprised by your comments, really the (3) questions aren't even hard. What is the problem you don't want to admit (truth) over (lies) or (know) over (believe). I have my opinion/concepts, but only throw it out there, to see a public view. I hope I am not being difficult..

Now could you please answer my questions. If not don't complain.

Thank you. :o

Curlyben · Jul 22, 2007, 01:26 AM

What Clough is trying to asertain is what are YOUR views on these questions.
As you clearly want a discussion on them a point of reference would be good, rather than your normal vehement admonishment of responses you receive from other members.

life_is_a_song · Jul 22, 2007, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by Freethinka

Would you like to (know) there is a God? or, would you like to (believe) there is a god? :confused:

There is nothing like an absolute truth dear. Truth changes with a situation. Nothing universal about it. What holds true today and one is so passionate about, looks a lost cause tomorrow. Even views on god... unless they are indoctrinated by families.
I would say when you know yourself- in fact the fact that youa re nothing but an image of god itself then you know there is nothing more to know. And you realise that god is as imperfect as we are... perhaps a lot more full of humor. In knowing myself, there is nothing that remains to be known. And that is actually the truth. Because no curiosity remains neither any duality.

Freethinka · Jul 22, 2007, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by Curlyben

What Clough is trying to asertain is what are YOUR views on these questions.
As you clearly want a discussion on them a point of reference would be good, rather than your normal vehement admonishment of responses you receive from other members.

(1) I would rather know the truth, than believe a lie.
(2) I know there is a God.
(3) I would never believe there is a god.

Are you, you should be satisfied, now if you please, let us get on with the debate, let's rip the (3) simple questions wide open, the perimeters are set, now go, give me answers... :o

Curlyben · Jul 22, 2007, 01:52 AM

Nice contradiction there in points 2 and 3 so how would you reconcile that discrepancy?

Freethinka · Jul 22, 2007, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by life_is_a_song

there is nothing like an absolute truth dear. truth changes with a situation. nothing universal about it. what holds true today and one is so passionate about, looks a lost cause tomorrow. even views on god...unless they are indoctrinated by families.
i would say when you know yourself- in fact the fact that youa re nothing but an image of god itself then you know there is nothing more to know. and you realise that god is as imperfect as we are...perhaps a lot more full of humor. in knowing myself, there is nothing that remains to be known. and that is actually the truth. coz no curiosity remains neither any duality.

Life_is_a_song: There is such a thing as absolute truth, the problem is we, as humans pollute it with lies :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Curlyben

Nice contradiction there in points 2 and 3 so how would you reconcile that discrepancy ??

Curlyben: what may seem as, a contradiction, when looked upon at a glance, but upon close inspection of question (2) and (3) you would see the difference in key words. In question (2) I used the word (know) and in question (3) I used the word (believe). Could you tell me where the contradiction lie between the two questions. When I know for a fact that when you (know} something you do it with certainty, and when you (believe) something you do it with uncertainty.Do you still see a contradiction. :o

Curlyben · Jul 22, 2007, 02:23 AM

Yes, you are still cotradicting yourself, as both Knowledge and Belief are the search for TRUTH.
Knowledge implies proof of truth whereas belief implies the search of truth.

So how can you say that there is proof of God and yet you won't search for God.
Care to comment.

Freethinka · Jul 22, 2007, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by Curlyben

Yes, you are still cotradicting yourself, as both Knowledge and Belief are the search for TRUTH.
Knowledge implies proof of truth whereas belief implies the search of truth.

So how can you say that there is proof of God and yet you wont search for God.
Care to comment.

(1) To (know) is something that is proven, something that exist.

(2) To (believe} is to assume or presume that something exist.

Curlyben are these two examples, are they still contradictory. Don't kidd me now... :o

Curlyben · Jul 22, 2007, 06:11 AM

Yes.
How do you KNOW there is a God then refuse to BELIEVE in it?

Knowledge and belief are NOT mutually exclusive.

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 06:23 AM

Human beings constantly strive to know how the universe and the world works. So in my OPINION, we would want to KNOW if there is a God but we would all have to make a personal choice whether to BELIEVE in him or not.

Fr_Chuck · Jul 22, 2007, 07:04 AM

I am sorry but you are playing with words and just being silly as normal.

There is many things in faith and Christianity that are based on belief and faith. Knowing God personally can be one of them, and by having that faith and belief you get go know him personally.

I am sorrry it is obvious that you don't know my God or you would have much getter respect for Christianity. I would say you know a god but it has nothing to do with the God I love, know, believe in and respect.

Tessy777 · Jul 22, 2007, 07:33 AM

Well I agree with you Fr_Chuck (Rev. Dude ;)) But I would have to say, based on believing in "absolute truth" that he doesn't know "a god" because there is no such thing. I doubt that he knows the ONE and ONLY GOD, by his silly questions as you put it. All in all I'd say that freethinka... THINKS he is a deepthinka.. and he ain't. LOL.. I know, I'm the only one that finds my humor funny. ;)

Starman · Jul 22, 2007, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Tessy777

Well i agree with you Fr_Chuck (Rev. Dude ;)) But i would have to say, based on believing in "absolute truth" that he doesn't know "a god" because there is no such thing. I doubt that he knows the ONE and ONLY GOD, by his silly questions as you put it. All in all I'd say that freethinka...THINKS he is a deepthinka..and he ain't. LOL..i know, i'm the only one that finds my humor funny. ;)

Not at all Tessy, I enjoy your humorous comments. : )

Freethinka · Jul 22, 2007, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Curlyben

Yes.
How do you KNOW there is a God then refuse to BELIEVE in it ??

Knowledge and belief are NOT mutually exclusive.

Why believe in god. When to believe is presumptuous. When we know, that God is all around and through us, we know there is an infinite god. :o

Curlyben · Jul 22, 2007, 01:14 PM

What you are descriping is an absolute belief NOT knowledge.
Knowledge imples acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation.
Basically COLD HARD FACTS.
Hmmmm.

Freethinka · Jul 22, 2007, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by otto186

Human beings constantly strive to know how the universe and the world works. So in my OPINION, we would want to KNOW if there is a God but we would all have to make a personal choice whether to BELIEVE in him or not.

Otto186 you are right!:D

Originally Posted by Curlyben

What you are descriping is an absolute belief NOT knowledge.
Knowledge imples acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation.
Basically COLD HARD FACTS.
Hmmmm.

Curlyben; true, true, true.:D

Originally Posted by Tessy777

Well i agree with you Fr_Chuck (Rev. Dude ;)) But i would have to say, based on believing in "absolute truth" that he doesn't know "a god" because there is no such thing. I doubt that he knows the ONE and ONLY GOD, by his silly questions as you put it. All in all I'd say that freethinka...THINKS he is a deepthinka..and he ain't. LOL..i know, i'm the only one that finds my humor funny. ;)

Tessy777 are you a true believer. If so you have just sinned, and need to repent along with fr Chuck for believing I don't know God and, and labeling my questions as silly in hopes of not answering questions asked. I am not surprised. I basically get the same treatment/response whenever I debate with christiandom. This entity is very easily offended by questions why? :)

otto186 · Jul 22, 2007, 01:48 PM

This entity is very easily offended by questions why?

It is almost the same reason why religion is afraid of science. They're afraid of being proven wrong about their beliefs, and yet they don't want us to question their beliefs because we should automatically believe in what they believe in.

**EDIT** If you don't believe in their religion you are labeled an outcast of society, or a devil worshipper.

Now can someone please tell me why religion is so afraid of something different when their entire nature is based on forgiving?

This is my opinion. If I have offended anybody, I do apologize.

Freethinka · Jul 22, 2007, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I am sorry but you are playing with words and just being silly as normal.

There is many things in faith and Christianity that are based on belief and faith. Knowing God personally can be one of them, and by having that faith and belief you get go know him personally.

I am sorrry it is obvious that you don't know my God or you would have much getter respect for Christianity. I would say you know a god but it has nothing to do with the God I love, know, beleive in and respect.

Fr Chuck in all your holiness. What make you (believe) that you are worshiping the true God. You may own a church and wear a robe. You may stand behind a pulpit, that is guarded dearly. My question in your eyes may seem silly. Why is it, or is it standard practice, for men of your elk never let anyone on the pulpit, to question some of the beliefs that religion dissiminate as truth to any general public.:o